Speaking Up at Work, Scott’s Guide to Fundraising, and The Case for Atheism

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1:23Welcome to Office Hours with Prof. G. This is the part of the show where we answer your questions about business, big tech, entrepreneurship, and whatever else is on your mind. If you'd like to submit a question for next time, you can send a voice recording to officehoursofproftmedia.com. Again, that's officehoursofproftmedia.com. Or post your question on the Scott Galloway subreddit, and we just might feature it in our next episode. First question.

1:45Scott Galloway:Hey, Prof. G. Procter Media team. I live in New York City. I currently work at Salesforce. I'm writing today to seek your advice on a moral conundrum that has come upon many tech workers, including myself. I think you are uniquely positioned to comment given your outspoken nature and your dedication to holding those in power accountable through economic power, given your resistant unsubscribed movement. I write this to you in confidence, and I'm not revealing anything that has not publicly been reported on already. Their company at All Hands yesterday, Mark Benioff made a crude and inappropriate joke about ICE.

2:16Scott Galloway:Now in a vacuum, this may just seem like an insensitive comment, but compounded with comments by Benioff on bringing the National Guard into SF, and then the New York Times report on Salesforce pitching services to ICE to expedite hiring shows a pattern and not a one-off incidence. My question to you is outside of resisting and unsubscribing, what can we do as employees to speak out while protecting ourselves from retribution. I want to speak up, but I want to do it in a way that is respectful and calls the kettle black. I do have a blog and I've been toying with posting something, but very recently a coworker was fired from Salesforce back in September while posting on her social media about the Charlie Kirk assassination.

2:58Scott Galloway:I fear the same for myself if I post something. Thanks for fighting the good fight and I'm right there with you. Yeah, it's a tough one, but thank you for the thoughtful question. So just some background on what happened at Salesforce. At an internal company kickoff event in Las Vegas, Salesforce CEO Mark Benioff made a remark joking that ICE agents were present to monitor international employees, a comment many staff felt was deeply inappropriate. The joke triggered significant internal backlash with more than 1 ,400 Salesforce workers signing a letter urging leadership to publicly denounce ICE and end any business ties with the agency.

3:30That's from CNBC. So tech has been the epicenter of employee activism around defense contracts, immigration enforcement tech, surveillance tools, climate exposure, and fossil fuel relationships. So some employee tactics, open letters, often with hundreds to thousands of signatures, walkouts and coordinated protests. I personally hate those. I talk about entitled douchebags. Oh, I'm going to walk out over lunch. Okay. Wow, that'll show them. Internal petitions and ethics complaints, media leaks to forced transparency, organized employee coalitions and side companies. So we've seen a renewed wave of tech worker activism this year, particularly around immigration enforcement and government partnerships.

4:12Most recently, 900 Google employees signed an open letter condemning recent actions by ICE and CBP officers urging the company to disclose its dealings with the agencies and divest from them. In January, workers and executives representing Amazon, Spotify, Meta, among others, wrote a similar letter demanding ICE out of their cities. Oh, God. Okay, so I think it's easy for a guy, you know, sitting in his cabin or hotel room during ski week to be generous with your livelihood. I think your first priority is the economic security of you and your family. And I think you should be focused on that. And I think you want to gain the traction, credibility, the expertise, such that you can, if you decide to, at some point or not, go to a company that's more or less aligned with your values.

5:08But at the end of the day, I just think you have an obligation yourself. And you don't want to be what I call an artist or a philanthropist. Carlo Cipolla has this thing called stupid and it's a book and he has a matrix. There are smart people who do good things for themselves and good things for other people. Those are the smart people. There's bandits who do good things for themselves and bad things for other people, big tech executives. There's people, there's the stupid who do bad things for themselves and bad things for other people. And then there's artists slash philanthropists that do good things for others, but bad things for themselves.

5:46I don't think this is the story you want to jump on. If you're doing well at Salesforce, I would say stick it out, continue to do well, and then decide over time as you have the currency to go somewhere else that offers the same upside psychic returns and economic security, then you can make that decision. But I wouldn't storm out in a blaze of virtue, signal, and glory. I think your first obligation is to, again, your and your family's economic security. Now, let's talk a bit about Salesforce. I have a bias here because I've known Mark Benioff for about a decade. And I think that the narrative around Mark is unfair.

6:22And one of the things I hate about progressives, and I don't know Mark's politics, but based on what I've seen, I would argue that Mark is a quote unquote center left progressive. and good to his employees, built an amazing company, and has also been a huge benefactor or donor for San Francisco causes. So I think you have to take a full, I think you have to look at all 35 frames of the movie, if you will, of a 35 millimeter film, if that's, or is it a 35 millimeter camera? Shit, I don't know. You get what I'm saying. And one of the things I don't like about progressives is that we are playing into J.D.

6:59Vance's and Peter Thiel's hands. What do I mean by that? There are bots. If I'm asked to comment on the Epstein files and I say that we need criminal indictments against the people here who engaged in sex with underage women, the majority of the comments I will get on social media will be, they're not underage women, they're girls. And that's right. But we seem to, on the left, be more concerned with redistributing virtue as opposed to redistributing income or opportunity or fighting fascism. We're in a trench, literally, as a fascist army is about to run us over. And we're sitting here accusing each other of holding the rifle incorrectly.

7:42and there is more because progressives care if someone says oh you're using the wrong language then oh you're an apostate you're not you're not really one of us and there's definitely a vein of any rich billionaire white guy in his 50s or 60s is just wrong with whatever he says i think the democrats are absolutely guilty of massive identity politics here i think there's a certain vein or an undercurrent of young men are the problem, billionaires are evil, and all white people are racist. And as long as that vein or the ideology continues to get traction and likes online, then those three cohorts are going to say, fuck you to the Democratic Party, and we're going to have J.D.

8:27Vance as president. So a long-winded way of saying, I think Mark Benioff is one of the good guys. And if he fucks up and says something inappropriate, which I do a lot, I don't think that's reason to leave the company. Now, I think you, in a thoughtful, measured way, making it clear to your boss that I am uncomfortable with Salesforce's support or working with the government specifically around issues related to ICE and immigration enforcement, which I think has gone way too far. I think making your thoughts heard in a thoughtful, respectful way to your boss or to whoever you report to, I think that's fine.

9:07I think you have to be careful, though, because being the person who's decided to be the ringleader internally and speak up, everyone will nod and call you a hero. And then someone you don't even know will put your name on a list when they have the next layoff. You're on that list. And that's just the cruel truth of capitalism. Companies don't need to be paying people who are shitposting the CEO or hurting the company. That's the reality of a capitalist society. A place like Salesforce, I think management does listen to its employees. And I think in a respectful, measured way, saying why you're uncomfortable with it.

9:43I'd be very careful with social. A lot of people reach out to me and say, I love your social. How can I be more outspoken or provocative? And my advice is don't. Unless you're in the media or it's your job or unless you already have economic security, be very careful what you post on social media because it's one thing, you know, I'm not saying sense of yourself. I'm saying be measured and recognize that that shit is forever. And when you start cashing other people's checks at a company, if you embarrass the company publicly, that is grounds for dismissal. In sum, be smart, be thoughtful, be respectful.

10:16And the key is to be a fucking gangster yourself. Be just so good at what you do that you have the option to go to a place that pays you as well and perhaps has values that better align with yours. I appreciate the question. Question number two comes from Mustache Gracias on Instagram. They say, how would you approach fundraising if you're not connected to family offices, funds, etc.? Oh, fuck. I assume you're in the hedge fund business. The hedge fund business has essentially been consolidated. Boss, it's like how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time? I think you have to be in the mix. I think you have to be in New York or San Francisco or London.

10:56I think you have to be doing lunches and coffees every goddamn day with family offices. What I have found, I've raised a lot of money. What I have found is you don't raise money on the first, second, or third meeting. You raise it on the fifth or sixth, and they start with a little bit of money. I think if you're a good person and you equate yourself well, even when you lose money, just communicating a lot, slowly but surely you can start to build a book. And then, again, a lot of it comes down to performance, right? But even so, I'm seeing a lot of mid-level,$100 million,$500 million,$3 billion funds just can't raise money right now.

11:33So what is it? It's a ton of hard work and getting out a spoon and eating shit and doing a ton of meetings. I think that if there's a hack here, it's content marketing. and that is figuring out a viewpoint or figuring out the most articulate, compelling person in your organization and having them put out content, either newsletters or videos or thought pieces, getting appearances on podcasts where you get to explain the markets and give people the sense that this guy or gal understands or can see the matrix and then maybe they should do a meeting with them. I'm actually working with right now or advising 150 billion AUM fund and nobody knows about them.

12:15And I'm like, that's great. But if you want to get to 500 billion, you're going to have to have some awareness and retail presence, which means you're going to need to start putting out thought leadership. Thorsten, I think his name is Thorsten Slack? Thorsten, I forget his name. Anyways, he puts out this great email newsletter on the markets from Apollo. And Apollo's just in my head all the time. Yeah, so no easy route here. Market dynamics trump individual performance. A lot of great managers out there just can't raise money right now. So two, if you have the opportunity to go be a portfolio manager for a bigger fund, I would seriously consider that too.

12:52If you're committed to raising your own fund, just a shit ton of meetings, day after day, hand-to-hand combat. And then think about what kind of content marketing you can post on platforms, YouTube, podcasts, social, newsletters that raises your awareness across a potential funding base. I appreciate the question. We'll be right back after a quick break. Thank you. LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals and 130 million decision makers according to their data. That's where it stands apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority skills, company revenue, all so you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience.

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16:42Welcome back Our final question comes from Pareto Optimal 5000 on LinkedIn Hey big dog, love the show I never miss an episode of Office Hours Would love to hear your opinion and thoughts on religion How did you talk about it with your sons? Do you think the world is better with or without religion? Well, that's an awfully, we're going to need a bigger boat. By the way, have you seen that meme of Roy Scheider scooping Trafe or that shit, whatever, chum, I'm sorry, not Trafe, chum, into the water? And then the shark comes out. And in this instance, Bam Bondi coming out saying, the Dow is over$50 ,000.

17:17By the way, it's not dollars, you fucking idiot. It's an index of the Dow's biggest hundred companies meant to represent a balanced index or scorecard on their market caps. Anyways, I love that. I love that. Where were we? Oh, religion. How did I get here? So what have I done with my sons around religion? Almost nothing. I am an atheist, and I think I grew up somewhat judgmental of religion and think of myself as a scientist and a cynic. And it's good to call yourself a cynic. Oh, God, that's awful. I probably am. But, you know, you need optimists, you need pessimists. Optimists get the plane to fly.

17:53pessimists invent seatbelts. You need both. Anyways, but I've always thought religion, to me, just made no fucking sense. I don't have an invisible friend. There's 5 ,000 gods out there. I believe in one less than most people. And as Ricky Gervais said, if we burned all of the religious books and then burnt all of the science books, the science books in 100, 500, 1 ,000 years would probably look the same. Whereas the, I don't know, the religious books, Who knows? Now, having said that, as I've gotten older, I've become much less judgmental. And that is, I recognize, I think some of the beliefs of religion or some of the theories just make no fucking sense to me.

18:33But my belief as a quote unquote scientist is that there was nothing and then it exploded into all this. That kind of makes no fucking sense either. So So if people want to believe some sort of divine intervention that built all of this and can help them understand or appreciate, you know, how beautiful nature is and how good they feel when they, you know, hug their kids. Like, I get it. And the fact that religion is used as the connective tissue to get people together on a regular basis, to appreciate each other and maybe invest in their community and maybe, you know, wash the feet of others.

19:12I think the majority of religion, at least I've come to believe, is probably a net positive. And a lot of people would argue, have good points, that no, it's been the catalyst for most death and wars. I get the counterargument here, but I find that the majority of people I know who have religious, I don't know, some sort of religious upbringing or religious values or beliefs are generally, it's a great guidepost for them. or it's a net positive in their lives. It not only provides them with comfort, but it helps them develop a code around being more graceful and generous with others. I remember my dad's been married and divorced four times.

19:49I've been to every religious establishment. I remember going to Sunday school with his third wife or his third wife dropping me off at Sunday school. And the Sunday school teacher would constantly ask, what would Jesus do? So he had to learn about Jesus. And Jesus probably wouldn't hit Johnny and ask for his lunch money. I think at a very basic level, It has probably been a net positive. It's the extremists in any religion that go batshit crazy and start believing, if you're not on my team, you deserve to die or you're less human. That's obviously where things kind of come off the tracks. And I'm a huge believer in a separation of church and state.

20:21So what have I done with my kids? Nothing. And I sort of regret it. I did give them a book called A History of Religion just such that they could be knowledgeable on it. I think it's hard to be a well-read, thoughtful person without at least understanding the basics of religion. but I don't claim to have an answer here. I think this is a very personal question. I think it's a conversation if you're thinking about entering into a long-term relationship with someone that you have alignment around what you plan to do around religion with your children. But my atheism is also a real source of strength for me.

20:50And that is I'm 99.9 % convinced, I think it's dangerous to be 100 % certain of anything, that at some point I will look into my son's eyes and know our relationship is coming to an end. And that I'm never going to see them again, and they're never going to see me again. And that's okay, because it has provided me with a lot of courage and given me the ability to forgive myself. And that is when I say or do something stupid, which I do every fucking day, I try to forgive myself, recognizing that the shame or the embarrassment I feel doesn't matter, because the people I'm worried about, what they think of me are going to be dead soon and so am I.

21:28And so try to be a good person. Try to enjoy yourself. Try to love others. But recognize, take risks. Tell people you love them. Be willing to make mistakes. Risk public failure. Live life. Dance on tables. Dance as if no one is watching you. Because guess what? You're going to be dead soon and so are they. I believe that. And I don't believe I'm going to meet up with people and skirt along clouds and judge other people. I just don't buy that personally. And I find that as liberating for me, knowing that the end is coming makes me feel more bold with my emotions and my actions. And that's been a real unlock for me.

22:05I'd like to somehow communicate that to my kids, but I don't want to tell them it's all going to be over soon. You're going to be dead. And I don't know, that doesn't sound like a very inspiring talk before we head to the Arsenal-Liverpool game. But I have failed, I think, as a father to at least give them enough knowledge around religion such that they're versed or well-versed in something that has played such a huge role in society, and also maybe to give them the chance to make up their own minds about what, how much, if and how much religion they want in their lives. In sum, I have not figured this out other than to say I believe that atheism is a form of religious belief and one of the key tenets of atheism that I've come to embrace is that you respect and accept other people's rights or right to believe in a super being.

22:53That's a key component. People think of atheists as people who discriminate against people of faith. No, a key component of atheism is that you, just as you believe you have the right to be a non-believer, you also respect the rights of people to be believers. Appreciate the question. That's all for this episode. If you'd like to submit a question, please email a voice recording to officehours at propgmedia.com. That's officehours at PropGmedia.com. Or if you prefer to ask on Reddit, post your question on the Scott Galloway subreddit, and we just might feature it in an upcoming episode.

23:31This episode was produced by Jennifer Sanchez and Laura Genere. Kami Rika is our social producer. Brad Williams is our editor. And Drew Burrows is our technical director. Thank you for listening to the PropG pod from PropGmedia.

23:49Thank you.