Why Trump's Iran Strikes Are Unconstitutional — with David French

27:18And so I may. And we were also at that same time very successful in our mission. So I'm the last person to say that we have to sacrifice compliance with the law and the protection of the innocent to accomplish a military objective. So I wasn't planning to go this way, but we talk a lot about the struggles of young men on this show. And I think that's been just an incredible part of your focus. And I've really appreciated that, by the way. I appreciate you saying that. But one of the things that comes up a lot is, and I wish I knew more about it, and I'm planning to do some podcasts on it, is service as an option for young men and women.

28:04And the question I get a lot and I want to put to you is, who is the right fit for service and who is not? So I'm going to say this. You are probably, if you are listening and you are healthy, physically healthy, you are probably the right fit for service. You would be amazed at the diversity of people, personalities, etc., who serve in the U.S. military. There isn't a type. There isn't a one mold. And, you know, it's funny. I grew up watching, you know, World War II movies, Vietnam War movies, all of this. And there was always the stereotype. You know, you have the infantry platoon that's got, you know, the wisecracking kid from Brooklyn, the kid from Appalachia in Kentucky who's never been outside of his hometown until he joined the military, the guy from Puerto Rico, the guy from California.

28:56And, you know, you've got these sort of stereotypes of all these people from around the country. and then I arrive and it's all true. That's the way it is. So here, you know, we had, I was with an armored cavalry unit, not an infantry unit, but we had the very same dynamic and it was just remarkable the diversity of people. I put it this way, that the U.S. military has achieved the diversity that colleges say they want, but never get close to achieving. We had diversity by race, by ethnicity, by religion, by class. I mean, the whole spectrum and lots of different personality types. You know, you have to be willing.

29:41You have to be somebody who's willing to take orders and to take direction. You have to be humble enough and pliant enough to recognize that you don't know everything, that you are not an expert in everything, and that sometimes people are going to have to tell you what to do. And it's going to be absolutely critical that you say, yes, sir, yes, ma 'am, and do it. But beyond just that very basic ability, if you're able-bodied, if you have an ability, you know, if you have enough humility to swallow your pride and take orders, and I will honestly say, even if you have doubts about your courage, you are someone who can serve.

30:20It's funny, who rises to the occasion and who shrinks away is not predictable based on someone's attitude about themselves entering the military or entering a combat zone. I saw people who were very quiet, people who had expressed privately to me doubts, performed magnificently, just magnificently. I mean, and again, this is a cliche. I saw people who had a lot of bravado, who said they couldn't wait to get out there and get at the enemy, that when we took our first losses and it became very, very real, and you realize that, no, this isn't theoretical anymore. People are getting hurt, that I saw them shrink away.

30:57And so don't predict about yourself who you would be in the circumstance. Realize that if you feel that call to serve, there's also a lot of molding that goes on. You become somebody different during your service. And my wife would say that about me. She said, there's one person who left and there's a second person who came home. And there's a lot of resemblances between the two, but there are very real differences as well. It was a life-changing experience for me without question. And I would say in the ways that are both good and not so good and bad, but it was absolutely life-changing. But I would say, do not count yourself out.

31:41Don't look at a TV show, don't look at a body type or whatever and say, well, that's just not me, I wouldn't fit in, or there's nobody like me in the military. I would bet you there is absolutely not just somebody like you in the military, but a lot of somebody is like you because it is a it's a remarkably diverse institution.

32:03We'll be right back after a quick break.

32:16Hey, I'm Matt Buchel, comedian, writer and floating head. you may or may not have seen on your For You page, and I'm starting a brand new podcast. Wait, wait, don't swipe away. It's called That Sounds Like a Lot, as in that feeling when you check your phone in the morning, you read through headlines, and you immediately think, oh, that sounds like a lot. I can't deal with all this. But guess what? I can deal with it, and I'm going to get into it every Friday. I'll break down whatever chaos is happening in the world, then I'll sit down with a comedian. You can be progressive and not be, like, fucking annoying.

32:42Maybe an actor. They go, feminism has gone too far. You go, why? Because the Sadie Hawkins dance happened? Maybe a filmmaker. Since leaving that show, I'm challenged to sparing. I just kind of hang out and try to do stuff. You're the one with the charmed light. Could be a politician, basically anyone who responds to my cold DMs. We're recording the whole thing in a beautiful studio, so yes, you can watch it on YouTube, or you can listen wherever you get your podcasts. This is not the place to get the news, but it is the place to feel a little better about it. That Sounds Like A Lot, part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

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35:40So, under the auspices of a lack of elegance segues, let's talk about the Pope.

35:48That's still, given the circumstances, that's a pretty good segue. I thought that was great, and I'm glad we went there. You wrote that the Trump Pope, Leo, standoff was the most important theological debate of your lifetime. Can you make the case for why it matters to someone who isn't following it or isn't quite funny, isn't religious? Oh, absolutely. So if you're going to look at, let's back up a little bit and just do super short history 101. So after World War I, which was this catastrophic confrontation that cost, you know, by some estimates, 20 million lives, the Western world said, let's not do that again.

36:27And they passed something called the Kellogg-Briand Pact, which was trying to outlaw aggressive war. They began to enter into a bunch of treaties requiring kinds of humane treatment in war. So the basic desire was to create something called the war, that to make World War I, the war to end all wars. In other words, that was so horrific, we're never gonna do it again. And when they began to construct laws of war, they weren't building from a blank, they weren't painting on a blank canvas. What they essentially did was took Catholic just war doctrine and began to incorporate it into international law.

37:03Now, we all know that it didn't work. Initially, World War I was not the war to end all wars. One of the reasons why these international institutions didn't work was that the United States didn't participate. The most powerful economy in the world, the theoretically potentially most powerful military in the world, did not participate. And so when Hitler arose, there was no real great power that had the willingness and capacity to resist him. So we went through it all again, except maybe by some estimates three times worse. There are some guesses as many as say 60 million people died. So then we said, again, let's not do that again.

37:45And this time the United States stuck with a plan. And we passed the UN. We created the UN. We ratified the UN Charter. And the UN Charter does exactly what was attempted after World War I, and that was to ban aggressive warfare. It was rooted in just war doctrine. So in other words, if you're, interestingly enough, in a very religiously diverse world and an increasingly secular West, when you're hearing the Pope talk about the war, what you're in essence is hearing a descendant of a founding father talking about the Constitution in an interesting way. He is the heir to the intellectual tradition that created the legal system that our entire international system is based on.

38:35So these debates about just war doctrine are not esoteric debates. They're exactly like debates around the Federalist Papers, say, around the Constitution. This goes into what do these words mean? What do these doctrines mean? And the way I would put it is, after World War II, we replaced a Clausewitzian worldview. And Clausewitz is the military strategist who described war as the extension of politics by other means. In essence, war just is an instrument of national policy. And replaced it with the Aquinas view of just war doctrine, that war is a last resort, not a first resort, and permissible only in very limited circumstances.

39:16So I'm not going to claim that all of the law of armed conflict is rooted in Catholic just war doctrine, but you can read the Department of Defense law of war manual and it will tell you, it will tell you that just war doctrine is one of the foundational pillars of the international law of armed conflict. And so this fight over the Pope isn't like just picking a fight with, say, some mega church preacher in Dallas. it's picking a fight with the intellectual air of the entire just war tradition that underpins international law. So you argue that Christian nationalism isn't really Christianity. But from the outside, and I realize this is reductive, a lot of people look at evangelical support for Trump, which hovers around 80%, and thinks, isn't this just what American Christianity is now?

40:10Yeah. Well, they'd be forgiven for thinking that, given how vocal and outspoken, and we just had this 250 rededication service on the National Mall, publicly funded. But American Christianity is a lot more diverse than white evangelicalism. So it's very true that 82 % of white evangelicals voted for Trump. It's also true that somewhere between 80 and 90 % of black Protestants voted for Harris. It's also true that the main line split about 50-50. It's true that the Catholic Church slightly leaned towards Trump over Harris. But American religion is quite diverse. And it's just that the white evangelical church sort of punches above its weight in that debate because it's so big, especially in the South, and it's so hyper-concentrated in one party that I would argue that white evangelicalism is the strongest faction and the strongest political party in the strongest nation in the world right now.

41:15So that means that white evangelicalism is arguably one of those potent religious movements in the entire world at the moment, and it has thrown its way behind Donald Trump just in an overwhelming fashion. And speaking as someone who grew up evangelical, who is evangelical, that is incredibly grievous to me. It's just incredibly grievous. And it's grievous in part because it's making hypocrites of millions of Americans, because I'm old enough to remember when evangelicals united in rage against Bill Clinton for all of his sexual sins and indiscretions and all of that. And even in 1998, the largest Protestant denomination in the United States, the Southern Baptist Church, Southern Baptist Convention put out a statement that said, tolerance of serious wrongs by leaders sears the conscience of a culture, results in unrestrained lawlessness, and surely will result in God's judgment.

42:12And you know what? They were right. Right now, unrestrained lawlessness has seared a conscience, all right. It's seared their conscience. It's sponsoring unrestrained lawlessness, one of the most corrupt administrations. It is the most corrupt administration I've seen in my life, so corrupt that the Gilded Age dudes are like rolling over in their graves saying I was born in the wrong era. I could have gotten crypto riches if I had just been, you know, been born a little bit later. So it's the most corrupt administration I've seen in my lifetime by miles, by miles. And it is the most divisive. It's wrecking.

42:50It is wrecking the social cohesion of this country. And the fact that this is empowered by people who believe they're saving the country in the name of Jesus is just, it's just grievous. It's grievous. And I'm hoping, I'm praying for a recognition in the church of the damage that they have inflicted. But no one who's listening to this podcast should think that is what the American church does. The American church is, you know, let's put it this way. Donald Trump is supported by one part of the American church. Another part of the American church is embodied by Pope Leo, who has turned out to be one of Trump's chief international antagonists in some ways.

43:31So American religion is big, diverse, and messy, but a big branch of that, a bigger, of American religion is supporting Donald Trump overwhelmingly and still does. And it's very grievous to me. So there's a, I don't know if it's fair or not, but Democrats have a reputation for being somewhat hostile towards religion, that it's not as welcoming or embracing. If you were advising the Democratic Party on how to speak to religious voters that they've lost, what would you tell them to do? That's a great question. So first, it's absolutely true. Aside from Black Protestants who are overwhelmingly Democratic, there is a giant God gap between the parties.

44:15The more often you go to church, the more likely you are to say you believe the Bible is the Word of God, the more likely you are to be Republican. And there's a giant gap there. And that has led many Democrats, especially white Democrats, white liberals, to see sort of Christianity or conservative iterations—and when I say conservative, I don't mean politically, I mean theologically—to be the enemy. And I would just say this, nobody wants to go where they're not wanted or where they're not liked. And if you create an impression with all of these conservative Christians that we hate you, we think you're backwards, we think you're bigoted, then guess what?

44:58They're going to stay in the exact place where they are right now. And then if you berate them and you say, how dare you, how dare you stay in this place? And they try to come to you and you say, well, no, I don't want you unless you agree to everything I believe in. That becomes a real problem. And I had I saw this really interesting interview with James Tallarico, who I think we'll see, you know, Texas is always fool's gold for Democrats. It's like Charlie Brown with the football for Democrats of late. But if Ken Paxton wins the primary, I think Tallarico has a really good opportunity to beat him with this message.

45:39Because I saw he was on an evangelical Christian podcast with conservative hosts, and they said to him, would you welcome a pro-life voice into the party? And he said, without hesitation, absolutely. He said, I'm pro-choice, but the Democratic Party has to be about becoming a bigger and bigger tent. And we have to put fewer and fewer roadblocks and hurdles in front of people to join the party. And he says, I would want to work if somebody wants to be a pro-life Democrat. We're going to disagree about abortion, but we're going to work together on the many, many, many other things that we agree with.

46:16And my colleague, Michelle Goldberg, had a great statement recently about one of the problems of the left. And she said this. She said, there are movements that look for converts and there are movements that hunt for heretics. And she was talking about how the left had been really focused, especially on the 20 teens, on narrowing the tent, hunting for people who didn't toe the line 100 percent. And this is when you began to see the just utterly absurd spectacle of Democrats running candidates in places like Alabama or Tennessee or Mississippi or Georgia who would be virtually indistinguishable from Democratic candidates in Massachusetts and California and Rhode Island when they're never going to fly.

47:03My friend Ezra Klein and other colleagues said, it's easier for him to almost imagine the Republic ending than it is to imagine a Democrat winning Senate in Arkansas. But I'm old enough, we're both old enough to remember when Democrats held sway over much of the South. It wasn't that long ago. And so I think the Democratic Party has to concentrate on becoming more tolerant of differences within the tent. And it's interesting they can actually look at the Trump GOP. There was this interesting dynamic in 2024 where the GOP had a broader ideological tent than the Democratic Party. There was one condition to join the GOP tent.

47:44To walk into that tent was the red hat. You had to have the red hat. You had to be pledged loyalty to Trump, but you could be pro-vax or anti-vax. You could be pro-Ukraine, you could be anti-Ukraine. You could be pro-war with Iran, you could be anti-war with Iran. Now, that kind of messy coalition can get messy when you're governing, but it's a great way to win elections. And so, you know, I would say if you see somebody, to, you know, my Democratic listeners, if you see somebody who agrees with you 70 % of the time, lean into that 70%. Don't sit there and focus on the 30 % and say, you're just not like me.

48:19You're horrible. You're awful. And there really is a perception just sort of to the core of the being of a lot of theologically conservative Christians that they just, no matter how much they may oppose Trump, no matter how much they may be appalled by the way the Trump administration is governing, no matter how much they may want to protect the human rights and dignity of immigrants, for example, or no matter how much they want to lift up and improve the lives of the middle class, that if they don't toe the line 100 % on all the various social issues, they're not just an outcast and not welcome in the Democratic Party.

48:54They're viewed as evil. That's an incredibly self-limiting way of looking at the world for any political party to look at the world. If somebody wants to be a part of you and wants to work with you on shared interests, I'm not saying give up all standards. If somebody's walking in with a swastik, and says, hey, I want to join with you guys. And no, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry. We do have lines. But as a general view and sort of that great American spectrum of politics, if someone is in that great American mainstream and they come to you and they say, can I join you? Here's the answer. Yes. Yes, you can.

49:31We won't agree on everything, but we'll work together on shared interests and then we'll disagree with each other with civility and decency when we have disagreement. But my gosh, that seems to be way too heavy a lift, especially for people who are sort of at that core, highly ideological activist base.

49:52We'll be right back.

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52:21Why is this still burning inside of me that I feel like I am missing something? I prayed so hard for my girl. I prayed like every night, prayed, prayed, prayed. And when I lost my babies, it was so hard. So that when I had them, I thought that was going to be the thing. Like I am finally getting the thing that I prayed for and it's going to fulfill me. And this is everything I want and more. And it was, but it was also something missing. I'm Raven Arson, and this is Motherhood, the remix from Project Swagger. This series is about defining our own versions of motherhood. I am bringing in a mama I adore and admire.

53:07My friend, fellow Peloton instructor Kirsten Ferguson. Listen now at Project Swagger.

53:21We're back with more from David French. One of the things I really respect about you, David, is that when I see you on Bill Maher and other program, I have a difficult time assigning a political label to you. And I say that as a feature, not a bug. So I want to talk a little bit about conservatism and identity. I would argue you've been pushed out of the conservative movement and you write for a paper that half the country calls the enemy. You left your church. What is your home? Do you have a home politically? Or it seems like everyone's saying they're politically homeless. Where do you stand on this?

53:58I definitely do not have a home. I mean, the Republican Party, there's no way I can belong to a party that puts a man like Donald Trump as its leader, much less an object of devotion. I mean, he's so far beyond the leadership that I saw in my adult lifetime. I was the first election I voted in was 1988. So George H.W. Bush was the first Republican that I voted for. So I've been through multiple iterations of party leadership of the Republican Party. I was a delegate to the 2012 Republican National Convention for Mitt Romney. and at no point, successful, unsuccessful, did any president have as much control over the party as Donald Trump does.

54:42And so, including just grassroots devotion that Donald Trump enjoys. So I can't be a part of a party that puts that much devotion into a man of such low character. I just can't do it. But I also know the Democratic Party doesn't, you know, going back to what we just said, I'm a pro-life evangelical. I'm not, I'm the kind of person a lot of Democrats would say is evil. And so I don't have a home there either. But I'm in very good company because the maladies of both parties are so severe that they're driving a lot of people to label themselves now as independent. And independents are now a plurality of America.

55:24So I feel like all of those of us who say that we're homeless, we actually, we might not have a home in a party, but I don't think it's right that we're homeless anymore. We're actually part of the biggest faction of American politics, and that is the independent faction. And so, but as far as being pushed out of the conservative movement, I'm just going to use that old Ronald Reagan line that he said, I didn't leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left me. On basically every measure, the Republican Party has changed its approach into a way that I would describe it as no longer a conservative party.

56:03It is a populist party. And those two things are not the same. And one of the great cons the Republican establishment has kind of pulled is they have told the base now that this populism is conservatism when it is not. And so I will consistently get people who have changed their position on everything from debt to deficits to NATO to the importance of abortion in the Republican Party platform. They'll look at me and they'll say, what happened to you? And I look at them and I say, what happened to me? What happened to you? And you have a lot of people sort of saying that back and forth to each other.

56:43So similarly with my church, when I said I was never ever going to support Donald Trump, and this goes all the way back to very early 2016, late 2015, I never in a million years, I knew my church was overwhelmingly Republican. I never in a million years thought that that would create a breach that would lead people in my denomination to want me gone, to want me out of it, as literally as being a heretic. But, you know, by a couple of years ago, I was invited to speak at my denomination's General Assembly and to speak on political polarization. And there was such an outcry, they canceled the invitation because I was a heretic.

57:23Why was I a heretic? Not because I disagreed with the Westminster Confession, the Apostles' Creed, any sort of tenet of basic conservative theology. Ideology, no, no, because I had vocally opposed Donald Trump and that had created to some people that made me a heretic, to some people that made me too divisive. I mean, it's dreadful. It's contemptuous. It's just I have contempt for that position. And I just have utter contempt for the idea that Donald Trump in support for Donald Trump should be any sort of litmus test for inclusion in a Christian community. Who would you like to see run for president?

58:07Hmm. That's a really, that's a great question. You know, I think there are a number of people on both sides that I would like to see. I would like to see Governor Shapiro of Pennsylvania. I'd like to see him run. I have a lot although I don't I think he would last maybe about nine seconds in a primary because he has doesn't have the kind of national name recognition Jared Polis out of Colorado I think is an interesting figure although I really strongly disagree with his his position on he just recently granted clemency to a woman who was imprisoned for her role in in trying to steal the election for Donald Trump I strongly disagree with that that decision.

58:52Look, I recently heard Rahm Emanuel speak. He has some very, he's a guy out there who's making that big tent argument that you just made in a very forceful fashion. I think there are quite a few Democrats who I would say, quote unquote, get it in the sense that what they need is a bigger tent. What they need is to aggressively reach out to disgruntled independents that they realize they don't need to be ideologically litmus testing and who have a very strong commitment to the post-Cold War order, to NATO, to our international alliances. To me, that's just an absolute deal breaker, just a deal breaker.

59:29On the Republican side, you know, I have long admired how Brian Kemp of Georgia is about the only Republican to stand up to Donald Trump and live to tell the tale politically. Because remember, he defied, he's a very conservative governor of Georgia, but he outright defied Trump in the 2020 election. And then unlike, you know, we saw Senator Cassidy go down, we saw five Indiana state senators go down recently. We might see Thomas Massey go down to the Trump effect. I think of the 17 Republicans who cast votes against Trump in the whole impeachment in 2021, what, 13, 14 of them are gone? So Brian Kemp is a guy who defied Trump and yet still retained enough Republican support to win re-election in Georgia.

1:00:20He's somebody who's interesting. I really love, and for a long time loved, what Spencer Cox is doing out in Utah, as far as like he is really trying to create, to depolarize America, because I think our polarization is the biggest emergency facing our country, is our polarization. So right there, there's five names off the top of my head that I think if any one of them win, we're going to be okay. So just as we wrap up here, David, you've been generous with your time. You're a New York Times columnist or reporter. I don't know what the term is. Columnist is the official title, yeah. You live in Nashville.

1:00:59You served in Iraq. I think you're a man of faith. Would that be fair to say? Yes, absolutely. A Republican or Republican-ish. A lot of young men listen to this podcast. I mean, you've had a very interesting life. What advice would you give to your 25-year-old self or a young man who has some credentials, you know, is not struggling but is trying to find his place in the world? What advice would you have for him or her? Well, you know, giving me the hypothetical of telling my 25-year-old self isn't that far off because I've got a 25-year-old son. And he's a 1L at Northwestern. And if I had to give one sentence of advice, it would be cultivated virtue, not ambition.

1:01:54And when I say that, I am not just making something up off the top of my head. What I'm doing is I'm pulling people back to the conception of manhood and masculinity that would really be sort of the dominant conception, say, at the era of the founding. Let me recommend a book to the guys listening right now. It's called The Pursuit of Happiness. And it is by Jeff Rosen, who until recently ran the National Constitution Center. And it's focused on that phrase, the pursuit of happiness. And what did it mean? And he went back from the Declaration, you know, we're endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights among them, the pursuit of life, liberty, you know, life, liberty, and happiness.

1:02:39And so what was the pursuit of happiness? It wasn't the pursuit of doing things you like. It wasn't the pursuit of having a quote-unquote fulfilling life. It was the pursuit of virtue. And if you look at the founders, some of the most impressive men in the history of this country, much less world history, think about how fortunate we were to have such remarkably farsighted political philosophers, statesmen, soldiers, generals at that point in our history, they focused on virtue. Benjamin Franklin used to keep a list of virtues. I think there are 13 virtues, and he would literally grade himself daily by his adherence and how he upheld his own standards about himself.

1:03:20Jefferson maintained lists of virtues. They were very interested in like the Stoic virtues, the Aristotelian kinds of virtues. And so the cultivation of virtues, and my colleague, well, he just recently left, David Brooks, had a great way of phrasing it. He called it the difference between eulogy virtues and resume virtues. Eulogy virtues are the ones where someone at the end of your life is describing what kind of man you were. Resume virtues describe what you did, the bullet points. And the virtue of concentrating on virtue, unlike concentrating on ambition, and I'm not saying don't be ambitious.

1:03:58You know, industry is a virtue. Industry is a virtue. And by industry, we're not talking about making cars, We're talking about thrift, efficiency, hard work ethic. Can you, do you have that grit and that grind to succeed? And so one of the virtues is industry. But if you're concentrating on virtue, you're actually concentrating on something that is far more ultimately in your control than if you're concentrating on the bullet points on the resume. And so you can become, it is possible to become the kind of person you want to be if you pursue virtue. And the other thing about it is because these virtues are never perfected, no human being has ever perfected these virtues.

1:04:41It really is a lifelong quest for self-improvement. It never ends, even when you're retired. My dad, he's 80 years old. He's retired. He used to teach math. He was a math professor at a college. Now he raises cattle in our family farm that we've had in our family since the 1850s in rural Tennessee. And guess what he's doing? At 80 years old, he's perfecting the virtues that are required to raise cattle. And he's becoming a better man in different ways, even at age 80. It's wonderful to see. I admire him so much because he's just never stopped trying to be a better human being his whole life. And that's the model I want to set for my kids.

1:05:24I want my son, when he's 57 like I am, to say, my dad never stopped trying to be a better human being. And that is something within our grasp. And I'm not going to say that if you try to be a better human being, that you're going to achieve high status wealth or a high status career. Nobody can promise you that. But what you can achieve is looking in the mirror and being proud of who you see looking back at you. And that's a lifelong process, and it's one that concentrates on virtue, not accomplishment. David French is an American political commentator and columnist for the New York Times. He was former senior editor of The Dispatch, a fellow at the National Review Institute, and a staff writer for the National Review.

1:06:10It's fascinating to say this, David, but I appreciate on a lot of levels, really appreciate your service. And And I think you're a great American and a real role model. And we come at this from, we have much different politics. Actually, not that different. On some key issues, we differ. But I really think you're a real asset to the country and to the New York Times. Very much appreciate your time. Well, that's so kind of you to say. And I'm going to repeat it. I just think you're doing, the phrase I'm going to use is the Lord's work out there reaching, you know, reaching struggling young men who, you've got a manosphere out there that it's the opposite of virtue is what they're filling kids, you know, they're filling young men's heads with.

1:06:51And I just think you're doing very important work, some of the most important work in our culture in reaching young men right now.

1:07:03This episode was produced by Jennifer Sanchez and Laura Gennar. Cammie Reek is our social producer. Bianca Rosario Ramirez is our video editor. And Drew Burrows is our technical director. Thank you for listening to the Prop G pod from Prop G Media.