Celebrity Catchphrase & Swearing At Children

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1:25Hello and welcome to this episode of the Rest is Entertainment, questions and answers edition. Hello Richard, I'm Marina Hyde. Hello there, I'm Richard Osman. How nice to see you. Thank you for reminding me of your name. Very nice to see you as always Richard, yes. How are you? I'm very well, thank you. How are you? I'm really well. Shall we just get straight on with the questions? Yes. Before we get straight on with the questions, I have some, any other business. Tim Hull has written, do you remember last week when we talked about the luctuous disease? Yes. Tim says, regarding your question about made up bands, AI in gyms, I work for Image Sound, and it turns out we provide music for that gym.

1:56So they would have done some due diligence, I suspect. When that was read out, they're like, oh, no. Happy to confirm the track you mentioned is definitely not AI-generated. At Image Sound, we work with brands to curate their brand sound, as well as several gym chains. All of our music is created by real bands, nothing AI-generated. Our playlists are carefully handpicked by experts without any reliance on AI. In this case, Voluptuous Disease is actually a father and son band making music using a platform for emerging artists to get their work heard. Wow, a father and son. They go, I would have loved to heard the conversation about what they're going to call themselves.

2:29Do you think they chose one word each? It's not a classic intergenerational title, is it? Voluptuous disease. I don't know. Maybe it is. Maybe my family's weird. Maybe it's one of those things where they both write down one word on a bit of paper and the dad is going, do you know what? Voluptuous, I think. And the son is going, yeah, man, disease. And they go, oh, no, now we're called voluptuous disease. And now they're getting talked about. Shall we get on? In fact, I'm going to ask you a question about bands. We haven't done a top three for a while. So here is a top three question from Michael Ellis.

2:59Thank you, Michael. Top three fictional bands. Who are your top three favourite made up and fictional bands from film and TV? God, there are so many bands that you almost slightly feel are made up. Like, you know, I don't know. Nickelback. Yeah. Nickelback. Yeah, Hanson. Surely not. Motley Crue is a classic one. but I surely surely they don't exist yeah okay right let me think of I know that lots of people would say the Blues Brothers but as you know I went to the public school boarding system did you? yeah you hide that well I hide it very well there was a certain type of boy in my teenage years like obsessively loved the Blues Brothers talked about the Blues Brothers the whole time they were always the type of boys that would talk over you and like not let you talk wait a minute yeah no sorry yeah well you know and of course one never had the confidence to say at the time but now i do now i have the confidence to tour it so what i would say is that and yeah so i still have that pavlovian response to people banging on about the blues riles which is no reflection on the film or those brilliant performances at number three i am putting the monkeys because to me that is so radical that idea where you kind of see the trick you know it's got that they're put together you've got the television show and it's so before it's time and also like incredible the music is ridiculous yeah they had amazing people writing for them carol king and neil diamonds and then they turned into incredible songwriters themselves and later kind of psychedelic monkeys yeah genuinely amazing stuff the best of the monkeys is genuinely an album that will take care of you that whole story is incredible so i love that but they are essentially fictional because they began as a as a form of fiction i would argue oh they're definitely fictional yeah but but then also yeah but then they're also and then suddenly they're real hold on a minute still water is my number two from almost famous the band in almost famous That whole thing, that whole study of a band.

4:49Love that movie so much. Obviously, all the whole sort of entourage around it. But Philip Seymour Hoffman as Lester Bangs, you know, the mental music critic, who says to him, like when he's trying to say to this kid, you know, this is how you're going to pitch your profile. He describes it as, just say it's a think piece about a mid-level band struggling with their own limitations in the harsh face of stardom. Stillwater are like, oh, that mid-level thing. They're not like Led Zeppelin or whatever. So I love that portrait. I think it's so perfect. I think it's such a perfect movie. I absolutely love it I love Cameron Crowe Perfect name for a band as well Stillwater for that sort of band Yeah exactly Exactly At number one it can only be It's Spinal Tap There we go How could it be anything else?

5:29I worry though sometimes when you go it can only be it can literally be anything I know I could have gone really laughing You go I am going to go with S Club 7 Yeah Yeah Again fictional but also real The Children wanted to watch it the other day and I was like no you don't know enough about bands yet to watch this movie like you're not going to get the jokes and I want you to totally get these jokes you need to find out more you know wow I have some really interesting cultural homework from my mother they don't really understand bands in the same way that we did exactly as you said where are the bands and Spinal Tap 2 is coming out soon I was talking to someone who was yes I will not say anything this person said other than when it comes out we'd have so much information I'm very very excited about it um yeah I would I would add Boys Unlimited to that list which was uh yes my My fictional boy band in the 90s with James Corden as the lead singer, which did not trouble the scorers.

6:23Still waiting for the second series, as we say, in the business. It could still happen. Anything can happen. It may not. That's a great question, Michael. So those are our favourite fictional bands. And Voluptuous Disease, very much not. This is a great one about catchphrase from Stephen Coughlin. My wife and I are fascinated by the imagination needed to create the catchphrase images in the show of the same name. the eponymous show and the sheer volume that they create simple question who creates these and how do they come up with them such i see those are the sort of questions i love because they're about something we've seen on television for years and years and years and it's when people understand that there's a whole job that actually these things just appear on your screen there's an awful lot of work that goes into we talked to aaron morgan who was one of the former catchphrase producers and i will quote various things that uh aaron said there is a phrase team the phrase Phrase Team.

7:13That's a fun gig, isn't it? That's the brackets I want in my job title. Marina Hyde Phrase Team. I want a business card with it. Phrase Team. I've never had a business card and I still want one. Well, listen, that's doable. Marina Hyde Phrase Team. Yeah. Richard Osman, Pollutris Disease. There's a creative phrase team that concentrates on just sourcing the phrases and then ideating animations. So if we said a stitch in time saves nine, then you'd have to have the word time and then it would have to have some stitches and then those stitches would sort of drop down and there'd be like a nine bobbing about in the sea, which would then sort of be looped around and then it would roll up and that's a stitch in time saves nine.

7:50That's a really bad one. It must send you completely insane just walking around the world in your daily life, just seeing, hearing words and immediately trying to ideate. Everything, yeah. Buy one, get one free. You're like immediately going, okay, how am I going to do that? Get one free. So that's their job all the time. There's a huge database of phrases that have already been used. Aaron says, I couldn't tell you when it started, but as you can imagine, it is immense. In terms of sourcing the phrases, it's a mix of keeping on top of new phrases that have made their way into popular vernacular.

8:19And so, yeah, essentially they're looking for phrases that haven't had what they would call the Mr. Chips treatment. Because they used to be super lo-fi, the animation, you know, back when they were like on a sort of MS-DOS sort of thing moving around on the screen. Have you ever seen the funniest clip of all time on television, which is there's an immense... Is it a Roy Walker era? It's a Roy Walker era catchphrase. There's an animation on the screen and the squares are taken away in such a way that it looks like Mr. Chips is performing an act of self-love. Let's say that. It's so funny. I haven't seen this.

8:51Okay, obviously I've seen this. So everyone, listen, I know you're in your car or you're out walking your dog, but as soon as you get home, you've got a treat in store. We'll put it in the show notes. Service journalism. We will put that in the show notes. Self-service journalism, that is. After they've ideated these things, The next job is to work up suitable visual ideas for the animation. So basically, you know, if you've got the kind of idea of what it might be, then exactly what that's going to look like. And that's based on a combination of entertainment value and achievability for the contestants guessing.

9:20Achievability for the contestants guessing. That's a moveable piece. That is a long-suffering producer there. Just going, do you know what? Honestly, you're going to have to make it even simpler. Who have we got on this week? All of these are then pitched. So that'll be a job where the phrase team go in and talk to an executive producer. That's the most fun they have all week. this is an exec producer who's literally just been dealing with how expensive the lights are this series and suddenly they go into a room where someone goes we're going to pitch you 1500 different animations well the real fun of making any show like that is when you get to play along so someone will come in and show them lots of animations I keep thinking of you being so good in the pitch meeting for Pointless that in the end you became Richard Osmond on Pointless do you not think that at some phase we might move to live action catchphrase which is basically just like a form of phrase team charades where they're real humans on the set doing really quite bad mimes.

10:08People would go crazy for that. I know they would. If you actually filmed the phrase team and the exec producer looking at the original versions of those, because firstly you could guess, and secondly you could join in working out whether they're any good or not, or whether they should be on the show. They're then pitched. The best ones are selected to be sent off to the animation company to be produced. There are certain jobs you do in TV that you just think, I'm getting paid to do this. And it's a joy because you know it's providing entertainment, so you know it's paying its way, but you are also thinking, this is how lovely to be sitting around with people I like and doing something creative and Aaron says in my whole career this was my favorite job working on the phrases was always really fun Stephen Mulhern is brilliant and the team from top to bottom was excellent and he's right about Mulhern he's so good on that show I went on Celebrity Catchphrase and I always if ever I'm on a show you sort of see how what the presenter is doing you kind of work out what they're about and he was just amazing from start to finish and someone just everything he's doing is making the show better, not making himself better.

11:06The team talk to bottom, he's saying, is excellent, and I would agree with that as well. But yeah, that's one of those funny things on TV shows. There's bits of the show, like the question-writing on shows as well, where things are bought in. Like on House of Games, whenever we do a new series, we pitch loads of rounds to each other, so the question-writers have all thought of rounds, and different people have thought of rounds, and sometimes I'll think of rounds, and they go, OK, let's do that, yeah. And they have to try it out. So we'll watch all these rounds, and two or three of them will make it through to a new series.

11:32and then if I've got one, they always go, yeah, I think it's a really good idea, Rich. Maybe too good. Maybe too good. It's just quite difficult to source some of the answers, but we can absolutely make it work if you want to, and very occasionally just to be naughty. I go, yeah, I do want to. In fact, no, it's fine. I get it. I get it. This one doesn't work. But, yeah, that's part of the fun of making a TV show like that is that thing of you have to test every single thing out before the contestants do. But thank you so much to Aaron for all of that stuff. I have a question for you, Marina. Paul Jeffries, hey Paul, says, how do they film scenes where an adult actor has to curse and swear in front of children?

12:09I've been watching Ted Lasso. In case you were wondering. There are two schools of thoughts on this. One is children can take it, right? They can take it and they can hear these words and it might not be, you know, they might have heard this sort of stuff and it doesn't matter and it's all part of the job. There are levels of it where, and if you talk to like the people on breeders, what they do is they will do a clean dialogue take with the child in question and then when they're shooting that actor's coverage which is the bit when you're sort of tight on and you'll shoot the whole scene and actually everyone's in it but the cameras are just on that one that's called the actor's coverage then then all the swear words will go where the f's and c's come out and there are different rules and there are different rules in america about what you can and can't do but in general we're quite sanguine about it in the uk up to a certain level what's interesting on the podcast i always think on on television but you don't swear after a certain time you can swear and on the podcast i'm aware that people listen to it in the car and stuff like that maybe they'll be on a school run so there are kids listening so i always usually try and self-centered occasionally say something because you know kids love it if someone swears a little bit so long as it's not like a forceful or you know you know something like that you can it's it's cheeky my basic rule which i always said to my kids about swearing is adults can swear in front of other adults and kids can swear in front of other kids but you must never cross the streams that's really good i tell my children that i've they say but why can't we swear you swear and i said yeah basically this is the equivalent of the ferrari you will not be getting when you're 18 i'm building you a ferrari of swearing which you will be allowed to take out of the garage when you're 18 we're just slowly creating it but yeah i they don't buy this by the way they don't they don't accept this as an excuse for me being able to swear and not them uh the second you leave the room your kids swear like troopers i have to say especially your daughter oh my goodness she doesn't honestly she swears like a like a livable doctor he's joking she doesn't she doesn't um you know you do she's listening right on that note should we progress cleanly to a break let's do that at sierra discover great deals on top brand workout gear like high quality walking shoes which might lead to another discovery.

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16:12Welcome back, everybody. Here's a question for both of us, I think. Nick Bowater, who is a proud Pointless Trophy holder. Wow. Yeah, I remember Nick. Yeah. Yeah, Nick. Yeah. Podium two. Yeah. With his partner. Nick, I wonder what you won the trophy on. Listen, it doesn't matter. Oh, it says just trophy, not jackpot. Interesting. Very interesting. Very interesting. Very interesting, Nick. I'm still going to read your question out, but tiny little bit of respect gone. No, it's random whether you win the jackpot on that show. If you know about golf and it's golf, then you're going to win. Was that the question?

16:50No, he doesn't say. No, it wasn't. He doesn't say. He is. You can tell he's not a bitter man, Nick. He's absolutely moved on with his life, which is what you must do. Anyway, Nick has a question. Before celebrity-based reality television shows, Celebrity Big Brother, I'm a Celeb, etc., would there have been a similar vehicle for a previously disgraced personality to reinvigorate their flagging career? I really like this question and I'm not sure I entirely know the answer to it. What I would say is, even now, disgrace is quite hard to reality show your way out of. And I know Philip Schofield's done that very specific format where he was not being, contrary to what he suggested, he's not being booked for the jungle, he's not being booked for other things.

17:36I think the central premise of my answer would be that before the explosion of reality TV in the kind of very late 90s, noughties there weren't that many disgraced celebrities we didn't have to, you know, if you were disgraced and there's a lot of terrible reasons for this which is that people felt they couldn't report things as we know, I mean, all the things you see is people say I didn't think anyone would listen or I did report it and no one did listen the very few that if there were disgraced ones I think you sort of drank yourself to death and that was it Yes, you went to prison, then when you came out of prison.

18:06But no one really did. Hugh Grant being caught with the sex worker on wherever it was in Hollywood, he just went on Jay Leno and made a joke about it. I wonder whether you would go straight back into your career in the same way now. I do think that people are, if they are now put beyond use, if they are now cancelled, it is harder to get back. But I definitely think that there are so few disgraced entertainers. It sort of came out after their deaths. I think that's right. I think there's also another point, which were there were far fewer famous people. Yeah. Describe as famous people because you were either famous and known by everybody or you weren't famous.

18:44Whereas now there's a million different fandoms and, you know, there's people who could be world famous and have like three million, you know, followers on Instagram. You never heard of them. So you have that. But also there were far fewer television shows to be on. So if you were famous and then something happened, you were disgraced. And if there were three people in the industry who decided they weren't going to book you, then you were never on television again. You couldn't suddenly go to a cable channel. You couldn't suddenly start making your own clips and uploading them to Insta and to YouTube.

19:14You couldn't do any of those things. So I think that actually what has happened is the supply of celebrities has grown massively. But also the demand for celebrities has grown massively. It would be interesting to know which one of those came first. and of course the bigger the numbers then that's when you start going okay we've got to book 12 people whereas in the old days all you had to do is book give us a clue right so we had to do or occasionally blankety blank and that'd be the same people coming back every week and now you're going oh my god we've got a new reality show where uh it's about combine harvesters and we need 12 celebrities have to drive combine harvesters so you know now we've got to book this so you kind of go oh great we've got three or four people well i guess we'll have to get someone disgraced now because people at least have heard of them you get someone who got you know and that just didn't used to happen in the audience.

19:57There just weren't those shows. But there aren't really disgraced people on those shows. I'm trying to think. The serious things that you're actually disgraced for are so serious, really, in lots of ways that people don't put you back on the television. And you do have to go and do something like, I don't know, Katie Hopkins or Russell Brand or have these kind of fringe, possibly with large followings, but kind of wingnut existences. But you're not on mainstream things. I don't think we really launder people. They may have had flops. Yeah. You know, I suppose something like, you know, Richard Bacon couldn't present Blue Peter anymore because you took your Sunday in the News of the World and you might have lost that particular job, but you might have got other jobs back.

20:34I do think there is a sort of certain finality to the type of cancellations that you see now. Yeah. And it is quite hard to come back from lots of those because of just the nature of what people are being accused of. It's quite, they're quite serious things. You know, we talked about last week, we talked about Anna Delvey on Dancing with the Stars. I mean, you know, honestly, that is a supply and demand thing. You know, there is a point at which if you're getting 12 people on a show, if that's, you know, The Jungle or Strictly or any show that needs a lot of people, you know, you go, oh, we need a mix.

21:06And occasionally that mix will involve somebody who maybe hasn't been on television for a while for various reasons. And so I just think it's one of those things where there were far fewer celebrities in the olden days. As you say, if they were disgraced, then they were in prison. And we needed far fewer guests on television shows. So actually, there would never have been a route back. Stay disgraced. Stay disgraced. Our new show. We've got a lot of formats around cancelled men. I've got to stop coming up with them. Okay. One on Countdown that I love from Paul Bateman. Does the Countdown clock only do the 30 seconds, or can it do the full 60-second rotation?

21:45Finally. Well, rather than answer this myself, I was on Countdown recently, as I spoke to the great man Colin Murray, who not only has given us some audio, but if you're watching on YouTube, has some video as well. So this is Colin Murray's answer to your question. Hi, Marina. Hi, Richard. It's Colin from Countdown here. Can the Countdown clock rotate the full minute? Right, I've had to do a bit of digging. I talked to Susie Dent, who would know better than anybody. She reckons it's never happened. But that's not your question. Your question is, can it? i don't think it can i remember when it broke down during an episode once and then our technicians went in and i think they fixed a light or whatever so it's a mock-up of a clock it's not a grandfather clock or your wristwatch so why with every second that ticks it lights up the only bit that lights up is as it ticks so why would they light up the other 30 seconds if it's not needed i don't think it would make sense to light it up so i'm going to say i'm sure that it hasn't ticked around the full minute um can it i'm less sure but i'm pretty convinced it can't but let me leave you with this why is countdown called countdown that's the question you should be asking it goes from not to 30 seconds it should be called count up if it was truly living up to It's named the clock would start at the bottom where it's 30 seconds and kind down to zero.

23:22So countdown should really be called countdown. Can I be the first to say that has broken me and I'm out of the podcast. That's epic. I'm going to be thinking about a lot of the issues raised in that answer for a long time. He's a deep thinker, Colin. Yeah. I'll give him that also. He's a brilliant host of that show. Now, listen, I love Colin. Oh, I love countdown. and you think this is the guy, listen, he hosts the show, and obviously he's talking to Susie Dent, he's talking to everyone, so this guy's got the definitive answer. I'm going to go slightly counter to him. You don't think it's a mock-up, a clock-up, if you will?

23:56A clock down, I call it. I think it is. I think certainly if you were to use that current clock at the moment, it wouldn't go all the way around. If you watch the pilot of Countdown, it goes around to 45 seconds. That's all I'm going to say. You can find it now on YouTube. I say you can, I did. Countdown, which was the first ever show on Channel 4, and essentially they were saying, is there a format here? And there's a huge French format, Chefs et Lettres. And they had done it on a regional basis with Richard Whiteley in Yorkshire, in Calendar, and it was called Calendar Countdown. You can see the very, very, very first pilot, which has a number of issues.

24:32Namely, it still has women picking up the letters and numbers, but they are not allowed to speak, is one of the biggest issues, which they seem to have got over. Secondly, you're only allowed to score points when it is your turn. So if you both get five-letter word, only the person who picks the letters gets the points, which is one of those format things that occasionally you go, oh, I tell you, we'll do it like this, because that's like badminton. And then you watch it and it goes, oh, no, maybe we should just, that doesn't seem to make sense. But a number of the rounds are 45 seconds on that.

24:58The music is identical, they're da-da-da-da, all of that. but the clock, other than it ends on a big buzzer, it doesn't end on, which is the perfect ending. It goes, and that's the end of that round. Anyway, I digress. As I often do, it goes around for 45 seconds on a few of the rounds. So it goes to the half minute and then it just keeps going round. So it has in its time, and listen, I recognize. In its time, but is it an earlier clock? Is that an, you know. It's a precursor. Yeah, clock. Yes, but. Yes, but. Oh, my God. Yes, and, surely. Yes, and. But what do you mean by the current clock? Because this clock is not going to last forever.

25:41So the countdown clock, is it an actual physical thing or is it an idea? So the actual physical thing, I am certain that Colin is right. And we've done Cats Does Countdown many, many times. Yeah. And it stops where it stops. And it doesn't sort of ever accidentally go one extra. But as a thought experiment. But as a thought experiment. As a concept. The idea of the countdown clock, could it go all the way around? Yes, it could go all the way, because it's gone to 45 seconds before. So it has done it before, and this is all I say to you, it could do it again. Okay, as I say, that has blown my mind, and that will stay with me as an answer and a session of reasoning.

26:17And also, I was going to answer the question of why is it called countdown. Oh, yeah, please do that too. Well, no, I have no answer. I thought I had sort of an answer, which is, well, look, it's a nine-letter word, and so they'd come up with something. But actually in that first pilot for calendar countdown, there are only eight letters. So even that doesn't work. I think we can consider this a mystery that's still developing. I don't think we've got any way to the bottom of that or the top. It is breaking news for sure. And yeah, we need more information. Listen, Colin has done a great job. But in the Warren Commission inquiry into the assassination of JFK, I think we have years more of testimony to hear.

26:54But all I know is, all I know, Senator, is that it has gone round to 45 seconds before in the history of the show. And therefore, theoretically, it could do again. Don't you think? I agree with you. I just want to agree to get out of the question now. Oh, this ain't stopping here. No, no, no. This is so much bigger than both of us realise. This goes all the way. Yeah, as you say. I'm going to find something and bring it back next week. I've just got to. but thank you so much Colin who as I say what a brilliant thank you Colin brilliant host is of that show if you watch that show now it's like a Rolls Royce him and Susie and Rachel it is an absolute joy to watch I mean is it worth any more questions or we can't what can you follow that with what can you follow that with a true philosophical inquiry good luck is Mr.

27:40Chips not a real person I mean come on no we can't don't let us excavate anything further that's enough to deal with for one week but we will see you again please keep sending in your questions. The rest is entertainment at gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you. Thank you so much, Marina. I'll see you next Tuesday. See you next Tuesday.

28:26We'll see you next time. today. Increase your wealth. Customize and save we see. That may have been too much feeling. Only pay for what you need at LibertyMutual.com. Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. Savings vary underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts. Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change. Your receipt did. The sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time. Prices and participation may vary.