CELEBRITY TRAITORS FINAL REACTION

0:28This episode is brought to you by our good friends at Sky. bill zero faff plentiful reliable and considerably easier to live with than most housemates 15 pound a month for sky and netflix and you'll always be in the loop so if you want all the best shows together in one place visit sky.com visit sky.com to start requires relevant sky tv and third party subscriptions sky essential tv includes a selection of sky channels 18 plus uk channel Islands and Isle of Man only. Oh my God. Oh, hello and welcome to this special live stream of The Rest is Entertainment. I'm Marina Hyde. And I'm Richard Osman.

1:06It's essentially going to be half an hour of just the brain explode emoji. What just happened? Okay. Way to throw it. Congratulations to Alan Carr. Yeah, amazing. What a booking. What a booking. There is so much to unpick there. I'm watching a lot of people go to pieces. We've just watched a lot of people go to pieces, Richard. I mean, what we saw there was probably, you know, Stephen Fry aside, probably the two most intelligent people in the game being utterly out-thought and outmaneuvered by two people who would be less traditionally thought of as intelligent firstly alan yeah beating them and secondly joe marler for telling them exactly from the start of that episode what was going to happen which was having got rid of jonathan it is alan and it is cat and nick god love nick muhammad but you said to me we said he's going to get in his he could get in his own head.

2:15I believe that may have occurred, Richard. Yes, I think that's what's called getting in your own head, isn't it? I mean, God bless David. He was consistent from the start to the end. He was wrong to the very end, wasn't he? He really was. He was wrong to the absolute... I mean, really, I... Okay. But Joe Marler also got in his own head because that absolute... having told everyone and they knew which steps they were doing everything in they're going to pick off David first as we discussed when we were talking about this last week and then that vote for I mean that vote for Kat is the biggest mistake in the game right I don't know that it was I think I think it was the right thing to do because because the next thing to do is the second that um uh you know the the the second that I mean listen this is one step further on but when alan decides to end the game despite the fact that the person he's just voted for is still there that would be david that's the moment that nick should kind of go oh okay i see it yeah there was sort of what i genuinely what it goes to show is however intelligent you are you do not have the benefit that we have of watching this across a month and being able to think about it and talk about it in the meantime you are literally absolutely locked away for six days and your brain absolutely gets fried and if nick muhammad's brain gets fried then anyone's brain gets right there was only one brain that wasn't fried there and that was joe marler and i think he thought well let's get rid of cat now that's a simple one then i persuade them to get rid of alan but something had happened that i don't think we were privy to between David and Nick.

4:04Okay but I actually yeah okay all right so yeah some that there was that there did seem to be I agree a sort of lacuna in the edit was some something that we didn't quite know. I would say it's a lacuna matata. A lacuna matata but I tell you what but because at the last round table you know that that was obviously the moment to banish Kat because of course one of the traitors is a woman I know I keep saying this but that was the moment to just logically banish Kat and realize that you're appearing on a entertainment format in on a public service broadcaster in the year 2025 and one of them's going to be a woman uh yeah and again that's the sort of thing that you know you can't edit into the show that they will have those discussions about the makeup of who the traitors might be and we would not be privy to those.

5:01And by the way, neither should we. That doesn't make for particularly edifying television. But certainly that is something. You can still write it on your slate, Richard. Exactly. You can still write it on your slate. But it's, I mean, Alan must think it's Christmas. I mean, genuinely, it's like judo. The bigger the guy you're up against, the better in some ways because you use their weight against them. He absolutely bamboozled two ostensibly very, very, very bright men. And the only person he couldn't bamboozle was a former rugby player. But I thought, I mean, yeah, he actually found the biggest form of mental strength in the end, as in all the way through, he found complete mental strength.

5:48I mean, he was mentally incredibly strong, as we've said all the way along. not only was he brilliant but he was an absolute insanely good entertainment booking throughout yeah and so yeah I've I thought I thought his strength in that last episode and then of course we finally have seen some tears in the celebrity version because you get a lot of tears it was like I haven't missed the tears but then I found his tears everyone having to apologize to him for the fact he'd won but that's you know that that's genuinely I think one of the issues with the with the regular traitors is that thing of the money does actually mean something so the idea of taking it from somebody else is almost a bigger issue than it is in the celebrity one I know you're taking it from charities but in a way we don't ever hear about the charities a charity is still getting it so yeah exactly so someone is is getting it and so you know if you're Nick or David it's not like oh my god I've lost this thing that could have helped my family you know so I think I think they they they had a genuine um that you know when when Alan I mean he what this and he's in tears because he it was the end of a very very very long week we've all had very very very long weeks like that and we get to the end of it uh and we win so I don't think it were tears of guilt or anything particularly I think it's just tears of oh my god I can stop oh the tension is dissolved.

7:14Yeah, the tension is dissolved. But yeah, I think he played an amazing last show. I really did. Around the round table, I knew he was a traitor. I was almost convinced that he wasn't. He probably... He really pulled it out of the bag. I mean, really, really did. And actually, once he'd lost Kat, that was very tricky. Yes, yeah. To retrieve it from that is phenomenal. And yeah, I mean, I... I think that getting rid of Cat then was, that Joe Marla putting Cat on the thing was probably the biggest mistake. I used to think the biggest mistake in the game was killing Lucy when they should have killed Nick.

7:58But as it turned out, Nick got him. It was okay in the end. Yeah, keeping Nick there, perhaps Lucy would have found him out. But, you know, we talked after the end of the last episode, there was such a simple route through this. for Nick and for Joe. And even if you're Nick, by the way, there's a simple route through it, which is you vote out Kat, you vote out Alan, then if you are Nick, you have a choice. You can say, look, if I think there's still a traitor here, if I do think it's Joe, I can vote Joe out, I still win, because I believe that one of these two is a faithful. The idea of not voting out Alan, there was nothing to be gained in keeping Alan in.

8:39there was zero why did nick vote to end the game yeah that was madness there were three of them left and he knows as well as anyone who watches the game that what's the difference there might as well be two of you it's and that's what you've said there it is a different form of stakes because it's all going to a charity whichever one it may be yeah i i why did he why did he throw the green the green smoke in because you know that there have been a conversation genuinely there's a conversation there that we haven't been privy to between him and David at some point right so you know the two of them are convinced of each other the lacuna the lacuna matata in that same conversation I'm certain of it between Nick and Alan or between David and Alan so I don't see a single use in any of the game other than Nick thinking perhaps oh what if the two of them turn on me, you know, possibly.

9:37But that aside, I don't think there's anything to be lost by getting rid of Alan. It seems crazy. I could not believe it when those green flames came up. I couldn't believe it. Yeah, I thought, I mean, you have to do the thing in any show like this of you don't look at the time because the time will tell you what's going to happen in the show because you go, oh, they've only got three minutes left so we don't have enough time for another round of voting. So I wasn't looking at the time at all. and at that moment I would have given any money that Nick had a final ace off his sleeve and would have gone red and would have got rid of Alan that he didn't.

10:18It just goes to show what a great format this is because for anybody watching at home saying, oh, we got it wrong, we did this, that, the other, I don't think many people would be able to play this game much better than Nick Muhammad has played it, and that right to the very end his brain just let him down, and the only person whose brain didn't let him down at any point really was was um poor joe and you know what it was it was the friends that let him down if your brain doesn't let you down your friends will yeah well david thought it was about the friends he'd met along the way i think he almost actually said that at a certain point i um can i okay it it is we we've talked about what it's what it's meant for the you know it's that it's been amazing for linear television it's been so extraordinary I was talking to someone um today today and they were saying that um it's for the BBC it has been a huge something like 10 percent of the time spent on all BBC services has been to do with celebrity traitors and 51 percent of all the talk about the show happens in the 9 till 11 essentially window that you see or you might watch it on a catch up.

11:33It's the biggest 16 to 34's audience of the year apart from adolescence. Biggest unscripted ever since Meghan and Harry's Oprah special, also iconic. Also iconic. Also iconic. And that first episode, because of course with the consolidation, it's now the biggest single episode on TV so far this year. and it's likely to be the highest series. So it's been this unbelievable kind of moment where everybody has... I know it's not saving it all, but I wonder what they'll get to tonight for the live final. Because what was Gavin and Stacey at Christmas, like 12.3 on the day or something? I know they...

12:16Yeah, Gavin and Stacey topped over the 20 million in the end. And this, I think, will be far off 16, 17 million. But the other interesting thing about it is, is the, like we talked about on the regular episode, we talked about Dancing with the Stars in the States, which is the American Britney Come Dancing, and how the feedback loop of going very big on TikTok and Instagram has led so many people, younger people to watch the show live on ABC, and it's the same with this because we can all, you know, on Twitter you go, I'm going to avoid spoilers, but with Instagram and TikTok, part of the fun of this show is watching the reaction videos from the people who are in it, and you cannot do that if you haven't watched it live.

12:56You really, you know, you've slightly missed that wave. And this show has been absolutely incredible for the socials, but the socials have absolutely driven everybody back to watching it on linear TV, which is amazing. I mean, whether you can repeat this, I don't know. I know for a fact everyone will be trying and they will. And we know for a fact that the normal version of it that will start in the very early days of January if it follows the same pattern as it has in the last couple of years will be bigger than that's ever been before. Because so many people said, I've spoken to so many people who said, oh, I've never watched it before.

13:34I sort of felt I was behind it because I thought I could watch the celebrity one because, you know, it felt like a separate thing. And now they will all feed into the ordinary version.

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14:58It's like people watching the Olympics once every four years going, no one told me sport was good. Yeah. No one told me that reality game shows were good. I think we've been, honestly, we've been telling that for 25 years. And finally one has come along that's proved it to you. and I yeah I mean it's and I know you're going to stick with the handball for the next four years now you've become this exactly yeah I watch handball league now I just yeah I went to watch isn't there something about the release schedule that helps which that sometimes you sort of slightly feel with something like I'm a celebrity which as another show you know I love but you slightly feel like oh my god I've got to give an hour or 90 minutes that every single night whereas people feel like I think there's something very clever about not doing it not having to be every night and not being completely stripped and it's just two or sometimes three uh in a week i think there's something about that you can come you can join in before it's too late and you think i'll never catch up yeah exactly you got you got three or four days to catch up if you really want to so if you if you want to watch it live and be on tiktok you you watch it live and be on tiktok if you're say my mum you can watch it on sunday or monday and you're still absolutely fine it kind And again, these things always look kind of considered in retrospect.

16:16And they're not. There's a lot of luck as to why these things work and why these things hit. And a lot of it is we didn't know that viewers had this sort of behavior, but this seems to suit them very, very well. And there is an audience for whom scheduled television is like a wonderful novelty. And they're like, oh, my God, have you heard of this thing, a show that's on at the same time every week? This is amazing. you have to sit in front of your television and actually watch it and you know there's a joy in that and it's a joy that's it is like sport you know you and I would that this is if you know people say sports like war by other means traitors is like sport by other means there's so much to it that you and I we've talked a lot about this but there's so much to it and sitting down having to watch it at the particular times but where something that where obviously in the great scheme of things the stakes are negligible and yet they are also absolutely everything yeah i mean if genuinely if you think about the emotions you go through in the last five minutes of that show it is hard to equate them to anything else other than sport other than unscripted drama which is which which is what sport is and other than the thing of oh my god i genuinely i knew that that could happen i didn't think that it would happen and traitors there's something about the format that seems to just hit that spot every single time because you know we did think after the last one oh well after the last one i was saying i there's there's an obvious route through this next episode maybe it'd be boring maybe we'll finally have a boring traitors final because joe and nick should be able to absolutely walk this but again you forget that they don't have a week between shows they haven't seen the edit they haven't seen all the little interviews that we've seen.

18:02You know, they are in this environment. In the same way, if you're playing in the Ryder Cup, I'm not absolutely comparing it to the Ryder Cup, but if you're in the Ryder Cup, something happens to your golf swing that doesn't happen when you're not in the Ryder Cup. Yes. Something happens to Nick Muhammad's brain here that would not happen in the usual course of events to Nick Muhammad. He could be cool about these things and just go, oh, no, hold on. There's, sorry, there's one guy here who literally we were all asked to go around and say, look at each other in the eye and say, I am a faithful.

18:33And he burst out laughing when he did it. Why don't I maybe, why don't I just maybe think I'm not going to throw my green thing into that. Maybe I just, maybe I will vote out the man who burst out laughing when he had to say, I am a faithful. You know, the very fact that he didn't do that and the very fact that he takes that extra layer he doesn't need to do is saying, wait a minute, I'm so convinced that Joe is a faithful, I'm so convinced that can only mean one thing. He's a traitor. Which is, we all know that the cleverest people are the people who know they don't know everything, right? The people who absolutely understand that the mysteries of the world are beyond them.

19:16You know people that are stupid when they tell you they know. The most dangerous people are the ones who think things are very simple. Exactly. Whereas Nick... That's why we're all obsessed with this show, because that's what politics now yeah yeah but he's had a whole we can't think about the world which is all full of people who think it's very simple he's had a whole lifetime of you know what counter intuition has worked for me a lot in my life so it's a lot maybe it's going to work one more time here but occasionally in life something turns up that looks like an incredibly faithful lovable rugby player and just is an incredibly faithful rugby player that's just that's just all that's in front of you But Nick's brain, with the radar that it has, was unable to process that that might be the case.

20:04It's great. It's about human nature. This is why this show is so wonderful. It's about we're all idiots. We're all being given so many data points. We're all being asked to make judgments all day, every single day. And it's really, really, really hard. And it's lovely to see that played out. Yeah, it's everybody's got a plan until they're smacked in the mouth. you know it everyone it's it was watching those plans go up first of all another thing i did think was they all had such a great sense of occasion you know they really do that end game very very well nobody was smiling and laughing in that at all like there was literally no none of them could actually find it and which i really liked um and um but yeah it was the i mean we were we were having to stand up for basically the ever since the end game stuff i couldn't sit down for any of it it was too much but tv isn't it where you can't sit down oh no i could just couldn't but tv moment of the year was alan was alan revealing it i i was beside myself beside myself he is the king of all he surveys now i believe oh i mean there's nothing that there is nothing that every single channel in this country is not currently throwing Alan Carr yeah I mean he became a different person but he was still always the same one he'd always been it was an absolute master class in it so him and Joe have done the best from it Joe is definitively the other winner because he just got it right all the way through and the two moments the moment where it became apparent that Nick had written down Joe's name the look on Joe's face was like Bambi's mother had been killed or something just that that thought of me I've done everything here we're teamies you know we're hundies yeah we're hundies I and the end where he goes well I misread that and you're like well I mean you sort of did and you didn't in a funny kind of way I mean I don't think you could have read it because it was it was on a it was on a different dimension you know nick should have just nick should have stayed where joe was rather than joe trying to go where nick was that's that's the only error here joe didn't make an error i think he was right to get rid of cat at that time i think he knew it was cat and alan and conversations could have and should have been had that would have made that a simple win but um there's nothing ever simple well they kept putting them in the car they they kept putting them in the cars both journeys they had nick and joe together and um cat and um david and alan together so they were really trying to put people it gave them enough time we have to talk to our lovely stable mate david about his experience of that because as a very bright man i would be fascinated for him to tell us what happened to his brain throughout that thing what what what was it that normally serves him so well that served him so ill throughout the entire process i'd be fascinated to know and anyone who you know who's he's been booked for the next series and you know there's amazing names being thrown around yeah it's imagine that now you get this whole other level of second guessing yourself because you've seen how other celebrities have done this you've seen however how other very smart people have done it and as always with the traitors the mistakes they make next time will simply be a reaction to the different mistakes that were made this time but i do and they will in january and well they won't in january because that's already been filmed but anyone who can see either of those games will i wondered i was thinking whether there are things whether you you could um whether there's ways that then you could innovate in the game even if you only did it temporarily um the business of not having i know we'd laugh about the floor of you don't have to have a four you don't actually have to catch a traitor i want i wonder whether there could there could be cash bonuses for getting a traitor yes interesting yeah i was just thinking that in the night last night thinking i wonder if you could but you know i don't sleep anyway so at least at this time i've got something fun to think about but I was thinking in order to avoid the sort of tactical herding, or some people don't do it tactically, but either way it's the result of it, you could add to the prize pot.

24:40Yeah, I think advantage and disadvantage of that. Advantage of it is it does genuinely speak to a genuine flaw in the format. The disadvantage is the same thing, which is actually as a producer, sometimes you don't really want to draw attention to that because i mean we you know big fans of the show know it and people we're talking to right now know it and understand it but you know is that generally understood um in the nation at large i don't know because they're they're watching a different thing and uh you know it's only if we get to the stage where the players where you can't even do an edit where it looks like the players are trying to get rid of traitors that's the point at which you have to do something about the format if in the next civilian one or the next um celebrity one literally nobody is giving you that soundbite of i can't believe we haven't got a traitor yet we've got to get a traitor if nobody is giving you that soundbite if even one person is giving you that soundbite you just put it in and it's easily done if nobody gives you that soundbite that's the point at which you have to go oh maybe there is a 10 000 bonus for getting out a traitor in the first you know three shows or something yeah i'm glad just your evenings staring at the ceiling thinking that celebrity traitors format points well thank you you know i think i only aim to please you now um i liked it i liked they kept an extra bit of drama in the in that very end bit which or just which we never had seen before because normally they do go and when we don't see them all at the end so i liked actually yeah and then actually having to see the reactions that really worked for me because you know it's a bit like when we talk we keep talking about mike darnell putting more and more reveals in why would you not have those reveals in the final in the regular one you can't because in the regular one you know tensions are heightened and actually people do feel a bit you know in this one everyone knows it's a game and i know that during the show that you know everyone buys into the artifice of the thing but the second that spell is broken the second alan says i'm a traitor and there's tears you can see nick and david are not are not thinking oh no now i need to be nice to alan they're thinking oh yeah of course of course this is fine of course this is okay well played that's you know you absolutely bested us that's nicely done and you know even joe marler who you know if anyone uh would have the right to take offense that'd be him you know no one no one to see joe and joe and nick have a hug you know down by the fire pit we wanted to see we wanted all those moment so i was really glad that we got those this time so the winners are terrestrial television which has done unbelievably well out of it the bbc bbc for sure alan carr i mean alan carr does more pilots than i won't say that uh but he does a lot of pilots uh and uh i forget this is like someone really special i think yeah yeah yeah i thought you know joey producer can you edit that bit out when i said the thing about someone doing a lot of pilots um go marla who suddenly everyone recognises and sees what it is that he can do and what he can bring to things.

27:42Most importantly, the winners are viewers because people don't have to make these shows. And it's rare these things come along. And I just think of the families watching this together, parents watching with grandparents, people at work, talking to people perhaps haven't spoken to in a while. Just a lovely thing to have in the middle of our culture made by brilliant program makers presented by a brilliant team made by a brilliant team and you know this is what television is supposed to be all about which is making the world a slightly happier place for an hour spark of joy in a really darkening world exactly that and i've really really loved uh our chats about it as well they've been they've been we'll have to do it for the regular one as well i mean tactically i mean whether whether we ever get it right i don't know but i genuinely I find it fascinating and more importantly as you say it's lovely to talk in such a consequential way about such an inconsequential thing what a what a life yeah it means nothing but it also means everything yeah exactly that so thank you very much listeners uh to those people watching us live or people listening to this tomorrow on the dog walk um it's been an absolute blast and we will see everyone for just one of our i guess our regular uh episodes next tuesday remember those yeah i i can't i've lost all the days of the week now richard i i exist out of time now so yeah see you next tuesday see you next tuesday everyone bye

29:30This episode was brought to you by our good friends at Sky. The Sky Glass TV is a television that insists on dressing for the occasion, transforming your living room from background noise into a set-piece premiere worthy of Sky Atlantic. As the nights get longer, it's the perfect time to settle in for a movie night with quality entertainment on Sky. Just say the name of your favourite film into your Sky remote, like Wicked, and let the magic unfold right in your living room. And the built-in Dolby Atmos doesn't just play sound, it performs it. think blockbuster sound without leaving the sofa. It's cinematic quality in your own home with the Sky Glass auto-adjust feature.

30:04And not sure what to watch? Well Sky's curated recommendation will find something for everyone. Let's scroll more story and the perfect way to make the most of those longer evenings. For more information visit sky.com. Requires relevant Sky TV subscriptions, broadband recommended minimum speed 30 megabits per second, 18 plus UK, Channel Islands and Isle of man only. Hello, I'm David Ulushoge. And I'm Sarah Churchwell. This week on Journey Through Time, we are exploring the story of the gunpowder plot of 1605. The story of how a small group of Catholics engaged in what would have been the most devastating terrorist attack in all of British history.

30:39The plan was ruthless. Blow up Parliament, King James I, and most of his family, all in a single blow. The series will tell the story of treason and traitors, of a group of men led by the charismatic Robert Cadesby, who believed that the only option left to them to win their rights as Catholics was the violent destruction of the Stuart State. We look at the story of Guy Fawkes, the nation's most famous traitor, from his recruitment to becoming the plot's fall guy and ultimately being tortured and killed. Finally, we find out why this plot is still remembered now, 400 years later. Listen to Journey Through Time wherever you get your podcasts.

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