CELEBRITY TRAITORS: First Episode Reaction (Free Bonus Episode)

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1:00Hello and welcome to this bonus episode of The Restless Entertainment, a special bonus episode, I think I can say Richard. I'm Marina Hyde. And I'm Richard Osmond, and we have just watched, as I hope you have as well, the first episode of Celebrity Traitors. If you have not watched it, please put down your podcast. Do not listen to this because there will be spoilers. This is for people who've just watched it. It's going to go off. Oh, it is say that did not disappoint no i mean it's so much let us begin the cast fine you've read the list of the cast but when you see it you just think my god this is bizarre reality tv once people regarded for washed up dregs this is a the most prestige format currently on british television it's pretty a list it's in terms like you've heard of basically everybody and if you haven't there's a couple you're like oh i see why they're on and also they're all genuinely excited to be there and not in that normal reality show way of oh my god i can't believe we're here this is so exciting they're genuinely oh my god we are in the castle this is going to be absolutely awesome the celebrity nature of it is totally crucial that's what really struck me we're watching a totally different version of the show now as we discussed which is why it really really works it works to have a celebrity version of this and a regular version because there are different dynamics at play the main one being obviously they all know each other or of each other to varying degrees and you can be pretty sure they've googled if they if they don't there's such a cute bit when steven fry says to nico omelana and of course you're the guy who does the pranks nico's going you've heard of me and he goes yeah no he knew you're gonna be on he's got the internet the other thing you notice about it is which is sort of funny and quite excruciating at moments is that it's far more performative because i found that almost the bigger these stars were the more annoying they were um there is incredibly like well yeah but it was some there was some incredibly lovey-ish bits at the start you realize is that they're probably just really really nervous you could really which you so rarely see but they're all out of their comfort zones because it's one thing being you know it being your show this isn't their show they are in a group they're not the star they're just one of a group it's not their stage anymore and it's very it's surprisingly I found discombobulating people who you think of so poised because you know you've watched like Jonathan Ross a million times like boss the whole of everything for decades and suddenly you're like oh you're just a guy getting out of a car with a lot of other people and it's it's very it's I found it quite compelling it's very democratizing yeah no I mean Ingrid said instantly she said it's fascinating they are all in a position where they don't know what's going to happen yeah and they have so rarely been in that position in recent times because you do become that because you're in control of your brand and who you are and you work with people that you trust and suddenly you're like well i trust this brand i trust the traders i know i love this but suddenly i have no idea what is going to happen well that's what we talked about before when we found out it was happening and we talked about that months ago we said this runs the risk despite being everybody's favorite show etc it runs the risk of being very, very exposing.

4:10And there's something so kind of tempting about being in that castle if you're a massive fan of the show. And you almost think some people wouldn't have thought it through enough because everybody's got a screen persona. Everybody, and a broadcast persona or YouTube persona or whatever it is, but you can't have that when you're in this ensemble. And your reputation is always precarious in reality TV. And I think because people think the creators is so classy and you don't have to talk about your personal life because you're always just talking about the game, which is which distinguishes it from a lot of reality TV formats is that people aren't talking.

4:47They deliberately edit out stuff that they're always talking about the game and the machinations and who might be on. That's why it works. And, you know, whereas in Big Brother, they've got these kind of acres of time where they're talking about relationships in the past that got wrong or, you know, when I was fired from this or that. There's none of that here. They're talking about the game always. Yeah. Let's go straight in and talk about who the three traitors are. Again, if you have not watched it, we are about to give the big spoiler. So I predicted the three traitors would be Jonathan, Cat, and Celia.

5:19I was just thinking I have my producers head on, but it's not. It's Jonathan, Cat, and Alan. And I have got to say, we'll talk about Cat and Jonathan in a moment. In terms of value, Alan, you're just straight in because he absolutely loses his mind immediately. which is so wonderful. He cannot, even before he's chosen as a traitor, he's almost in pieces. Well, this is why the celebrity version of the game is different because all civilians playing that game now, anyone in the version that we're going to see after Christmas, now realise that the strongest position in the game, well, apart from being recruited as a traitor later on in the game, is to be a traitor because you're controlling the game, whereas celebrities want to be loved to some extent.

6:02So all of them should have said, of course I want to be a traitor because I understand that I want to control the game. But a lot of them did. The one thing, if you are in the world of television, you sort of understand the format. You understand what is happening here. The money's going to go to charity. You want it to go to your charity if you possibly can. And the key thing about being, if you're a television presenter, we just talked about the thing of lack of control, is if you are a traitor, you are on television more. Like Nigel Farage said when he was on, I'm a celebrity. If you get picked for the tasks, you get more screen time.

6:32More importantly is you feel like you've got more control over your environment. You know, I always thought the reason I would find it difficult is if I was a faithful and I'm lying in my distant bunk miles away from the castle at 11pm at night, I know that three people are filming up in the turret with Claudia. And you're not one of them. And someone's making them a cup of tea and they're having a laugh. And whatever twist is about to happen, they know what it is. and so they have much more of an element of control over the show. You lose your mind. You get one hour's sleep. I couldn't do it.

7:06I absolutely, honestly, I would say kill me now. Give me an envelope. It's kind of the game, but yeah. Murder me instantly. I want to go home. If you are a traitor, you are sort of part of the production team, which is what a presenter wants to be. A presenter wants to be part of the production team. A presenter wants to know what's happening tomorrow. The second Jonathan Ross was up in that turret, he was so much more like the old I've got to watch Jonathan Ross push a horse up a hill he's having a meltdown all of the times I saw Jonathan Ross I almost couldn't look at him because I was embarrassed because he wasn't the Jonathan Ross I knew once he's in the tie he's like okay I've got more control over this but having to deal with the chaos of Alan Carr which was incredibly good value and the lovely thing is you know the two of them are old pals as well so there's history there but I loved Kat Burns amazing sorry I know the music but I don't know enough about her she's one of those ones which is actually one of the other perfect positions in terms of yeah it's a great bit of casting the second I saw her pre-interview before she'd even been selected I was like oh my god they've got to pick her she's so sort of coolly impressive and she despite Jonathan Ross becoming a producer she was almost like the most producer of all that's not actually an adjective of all of them producerial yeah of all of them I live my life probably so really.

8:28Okay, but you've got to calm down to Alan Carr. Yes. She's really impressive. I'll be interested to see what happens with her. So she is a great trader. I think Jonathan might be a bad trader. But, you know, the one thing about it that's going to play out interestingly, I think, is in the normal traders, you work out the status after a week or so. People kind of find their places. and you know at first perhaps the older people are the ones with the highest status and then often perhaps then the people who are good at the tasks have the highest status in this we instantly know what the status is every single the one thing you know about every single celebrity that has ever lived is they know exactly where they stand in the ecosystem of celebrity you know each and every one of them could take all 19 names rank them in order of the most famous to the least famous and those lists would be almost identical from all of them so you go in knowing that and that gives you two different things immediately it means there's two groups of people i think it's hard to murder straight away the really famous people because everyone there is a tv producer really and they're going do i really want to get rid of stephen fry i don't really want to get rid of kind of one of the biggest names there i keep him in they also know who is at the bottom of that status list and they go we can't get rid of those people immediately that's that that feels like bullying so you really only have a choice of about seven or eight people in the middle of that list the people who are famous enough all of which is so such weak gameplay yeah but they're celebrities they're conditioned to play the game weekly which i love yeah it's much more watchable but they'll be conditioned to play it weekly for about three days and after like three or four murders you know and I've talked to various people who are in it and everyone, no one will tell me anything but they all said it is unbelievable how quickly you start just playing a game.

10:27Does it get like the Stanford Prison Experiment? Yeah, I think so. One of those great sort of, you know. Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed. Yeah, there is that and also because it's going to last a shorter amount of time I think the pace, again, will be quite claustrophobic and it will pick up quickly because as you say, in the civilian version that might take sort of a week of stuff, but it will come quicker in this for definite. But this idea, so we don't know who the first person to be murdered is, so we can all make predictions on that. It might be slightly random because of course Alan has to physically touch somebody, so it might be someone who's just in front of him at any given time.

11:04But I love Kat and Jonathan just saying, no one will, Jonathan's like, if I touch someone's face, it'll be creepy. Kat Burns going, I mean, I never touch anyone. I'm like touching people at the best of times. I'm certainly not going to be doing that. And they're saying to Alan, I mean, Alan, of course, of course you would touch someone's face. But to his credit, he knew immediately that it had to be in. Yeah, he was like, you know what? Oh, God, I do have to do it. So he has got to wander around that house, find somebody to touch. I think that's a gender neutral thing. I think Alan can... She was totally appalled at how loud he was talking about it.

11:36It was amazing. He was, you know... He is an absolute liability. There's nothing better than the early days of the traitors having an absolute liability. as a traitor and especially when it's alan car yeah as i say you're used to him being in control of stuff and in charge of something to see him genuinely unravel and because he's a comic he unravels in a very very funny way in an amusing way uh at the very start of the next episode which is tomorrow he is going to get rid of somebody that can be very interested to know who i don't think it'll be any of the really high status ones i don't think it'll be any of the lower status young the young the younger ones essentially by lower status that's what i mean the people who more on the nursery slopes.

12:15If he walks up and caresses Stephen Fry's cheek, I will cry with laughter, but it won't happen. I enjoyed Nick being better at all the brain puzzles and the quizzes about Shakespeare than Stephen Fry. But doing it in such a low-key way, of course. See, Nick Muhammad, if people just know him from Ted Lesser or something, Nick Muhammad is a genuine genius. Yeah. So when I used to go and see his Mr. Swallow shows, and he would do like maths puzzles and stuff and genuinely do them and do these incredible feats. And yeah, if I'm doing something there when there's one of those slidey things, you just have to say to everyone, everybody, sit down, let Nick do it.

12:54He said at one point, this is an awful lot easier if it's just one person doing it. And he's the politest man in the whole world. He's just saying, and by the way, he started the whole thing by digging Cedia's grave for her, if you know what I mean. He's just saying, honestly, it's going to be easier if you just let me. You should have let him do the Shakespeare one as well. Oh, yes. Let's talk about Claire Balding. You know I love Claire. I love Claire. Claire was my house captain at school, and then we all voted for her to be head girl, and we all loved her. That's how long I've loved Claire.

13:21She was not my house captain at school. No. I do live quite near Claire. Yeah. And she is... She's the dream. I'm going to say one of the greatest human beings. She's absolutely hilarious. She is a delight in every way. And also, it's exactly the sort of person who goes, no, I'll put in the answer, don't worry. I can do that. I can do that. And the mistake that she made, the mortification I can't bear it I could not bear it we had to look away we were like it was awful because she and Tom Daley sports people had organised themselves had organised everyone so well yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean Tom Daley's one to watch so people who put their heads above the parapet I don't think it matters so much for this murder that's about to happen because there's a randomness to it I think if there were a murder happening okay should I murder Claire so Claire's put her head above the parapet by making that mistake which could could be seen as deliberate we know it's not but it could be so you think oh great we'll get rid of claire but of course if you're a traitor you're thinking oh no the faithfuls will get rid of claire let's let them do that we we get rid of an absolute wild card um so if if they were doing it normally and if you got rid of joe wilkinson you everyone would be like uh how what what's happening there what what have they done it throws everybody for an absolute loop the thing about having to touch someone's face it takes it takes all of that out of the equation so it has a randomness i genuinely don't think he's about to touch steven fry's face i genuinely don't think he's about to touch you know nico omelana's face he seems lovely by the way nico omelana i can't see anyone that they've cast well there's no one you think oh good they put someone deliberately annoying and they've they've gone no no we we love this show we're going to put in people who love this show and who people are going to love as well i will say this i think we can predict it's going to be an amazing series and there's going to be twists and turns and we know that these first three traitors are not going to end up being the three traitors because that's never the case I mean it'd be very hard to sort of run the whole show go the whole way through as a traitor doable but hard so as you say it's going to be someone who's recruited at a later point who's probably already proved for a fact that they're faithful and you know it's possible for her to do it for Kat to do it if she because she has obviously the chops for it but purely because she has the chops for it and she comes across funny enough she comes across in an incredibly non-celebrity way yeah if i can yeah that sounds like a sort of generalization you know like that is is a truly selfless good deed possible it is a brilliant uh celebrity game player possible yeah it's it's hard to see it i mean the other people i love i love celia of course i haven't worked with her recently and see celia said as you say this in real life she said my thing is everyone thinks i'm lovely and i'm i'm just not but she says it in such a lovely way with such a lovely face everyone's going oh but come on so she's the sort of person if you Joe Marler I thought was terrific he is great he doesn't look about but there's more going on there and people might underestimate that yes yeah I think so but he's yeah he's someone if he were ever recruited I think he'd be I think he might go to pieces if he was recruited I think that he might I think the burden might be I think he has a real sense of justice in his soul joe and i think i think i think he might find it quite hard to be recruited but we know that a few of them will be recruited and you know if you recruited celia for example then you know if you recruited nick he needs to hide the fact that he's incredibly smart he's probably the smartest person there in terms of just you know human nature and stuff he's he's our stable mate david olashog has just been on he's not bad is he yeah again people will people might not be so familiar with what he does because it's not such an obvious celeb-y thing.

17:03He might adopt that kind of father figure. They have them every year in all the civilian series and so he could take that role of people thinking you're an authority figure. Once Stephen Fry has gone to pieces and been voted out I'm joking. Stephen doesn't quite have the personality to be father of the house, neither does Jonathan so when you go down the list who's the next? Mark Bonner, does he have the thing but then David Ola Shoga I love Mark Bonner I just want to say I love Mark Bonner it's not to do with the point about traitors it's just I love you Mark Bonner but what if he's about to have his face touched oh my god he's in that group of eight in the middle I think yeah I think he is that's at risk I would say that middle order is there anyone we missed out because I just want to make sure that we've covered everyone Ruth I loved Lucy Beaumont didn't do much in that episode no so you sense that listen this is just the editor in me that maybe she's not going because we haven't, you know, you would have seen a bit more of her if she was the person who was going to go.

18:02It's like when you watch... Charlotte Church puts her back into things. Charlotte Church does it. Oh, Charlotte Church. Yeah. I mean, what if, yeah. God, you could see Alan touching Charlotte Church's face. She'd be such good value at the round tables, I'm afraid. Oh, my God. You're going to have to see that. But that's the problem. There's nobody here. You think, oh, great, there's some dead wood here. Just get rid of person X. All of these people, I want to see what they do. oh no Charlotte Church is a really good call for her. She's got the most potential to say exactly what she thinks at a round table.

18:30Yes. In quite a non-celebrity way. Which is really what you want because you just want people losing their minds. And also by the way Celia will do that. Yeah. And Celia because again she looks like. Yes but she'll always have control. Celia I don't know if she will because Celia it always looks like butter wouldn't melt. I'll tell you now for a fact it would melt. I mean it really really would. And if she wants to be mischievous then she will be mischievous. so I hope that she sticks around for a wide as well but genuinely I thought what an absolute treat it was everything I wanted it to be this is a series you know how like when it's James Bond and you've got all the trainers or Marvel and the actual physical trainers go on the interview circuit as well can we find out some more about the drivers it is a beautiful piece of drive I mean neither of us drive no so I'm so I'm assuming that's difficult I'm assuming what they do is very difficult how are they driving through that portico can the land rover drivers be put on the circuit because i think that no but they did it's a lovely piece of driving but it all makes it it's so camp and obviously her outfits the stylist there's so many yes we haven't even mentioned claudia yeah but we know but all the things that people used to just sort of think were part of television are so foregrounded in that show like the the craft of the games and the sort of stunts of it the cinematography you can always call it that because it is so sweeping the stylist which I mean no one used to talk about stylists for television you know all of this sort of stuff it really does foreground lots and lots of craft jobs because the game at heart is so simple yeah and so it's you have enormous noise of course it's flawed but it's flawed in a beautiful way I wonder what the twist they'll have a new twist that we haven't seen before in the final stages of that that won't be you know the ones that we've had in previous series and the other thing that struck me which is and it's weirdly it's something that you get from crime fiction as well if you're writing crime fiction the thing you have to do is hide hide your clues right so you have to hide that you've given away the solution you have to hide where it is and crime fiction readers are very smart at spotting when something's slightly out of place and but it's very easy if you can write a joke people don't notice because they're laughing and they go i understand why that's in there because it's a joke same in this is if you want to do these very serious conversations about, but are you a traitor?

20:43And you would say this, if you are funny, if you can do a joke, you can immediately block out any line of questioning you want to do. So I think if you're a comic, say if Joe Wilkinson was a traitor, he'd be a great traitor halfway through. He would find ways of, you could ask him something and even if he realises he's about to be caught out in a lie, which happens a lot, he would work out that he could say something funny and the conversation moves on. I loved it I hope we can do as it goes on a couple more of these and certainly before the final one are we going to be unable to control ourselves we're going to have to do more of these it's just nice to be able to talk about it straight off to watching it it's not really a news item but let's keep doing it yeah yeah let's keep doing it thank you so much for listening everybody thank you to our members if you are not a member this is a free one and if we anything we do on Celebrators we'll make free because I think it's a big show so that's not going behind a paywall but if you do want to join There's loads and loads of fun deep dives into famous shows, famous films, great stories.

21:46Lots and lots of great stuff in the archive. You can get access to ad-free listening and all that kind of stuff as well. Go to therestofentertainment.com if you want to join. But thank you for listening to this one. We'll see everyone for our regular question and answers edition tomorrow. We'll have calmed down by then. We will have calmed down, will we? Next we've got another episode to watch, straight after.

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