CELEBRITY TRAITORS: Week Four Reaction

0:28This episode is brought to you by our good friends at Sky. bill zero faff plentiful reliable and considerably easier to live with than most housemates 15 pound a month for sky and netflix and you'll always be in the loop so if you want all the best shows together in one place visit sky.com visit sky.com to start requires relevant sky tv and third party subscriptions sky essential tv includes a selection of sky channels 18 plus uk channel islands and isle of man only

0:57hello and welcome to this special edition of the rest is entertainment with me marina high and me richard osman celebrity traitors reaction that's my reaction wow and and for the benefit of the people not watching on youtube i'm throwing my my hands up i mean it's a wow this is first of all this is a huge triumph for the bbc and for what i'm sure you will tell me is the world of format formats and entertainment yes lovely to have a show like this that everybody is talking about every demographic is talking about the numbers are up around 13 14 million you know which is great it's like old school television and this is not some by the way resurgence of terrestrial tv but you know the the decline will continue but how lovely it can still punch above its weight every now and again so we're down to five players three faithful two traitors yes um they finally got a tracer yes it took them a while good one to get though yeah i'm amazed that jonathan was able to stay in that long yeah um he played it really brilliantly yeah um i think he has said since he didn't think he did play that well he was hugely helped by the utter uselessness the opposition i did you know again we we've we've said and this series has been the proof of the thing that it doesn't matter when you get the traitors out and it really does it really didn't because actually when they got jonathan out in some ways it was the perfect time to do it it's sort of post recruitment i mean you couldn't really recruit if they if they'd got cat or alan out straight away afterwards then this would be an absolute slam dunk for the traitors they could have gone through the whole first bit of this down to seven people without a single traitor going and absolutely won because that's what you can do just leave just you know when you're down to seven half of them are traitors and you know traitors give better clues to other traitors than faithfuls and it just goes to show that actually i mean listen we love the show we love the format but it was meaningless that they went through all of that terrible stuff at the beginning if they had just been able to follow through if they just perhaps gone with joe's idea that Alan should go next that's the big issue is that terrible terrible round table getting rid of Kate I mean that was after everything they've done wrong that's the biggest mess yet can I just say something when I was growing up this reminded me when I was growing up I had you know the original version of Guess Who the board game right yes and the original version of Guess Who the board game had five women in it okay and like maybe 24 tiles of people right so that was ridiculous so if you ask the question you know is it a woman and the answer is yes you put down 80 of the board right so when they were sitting there in that round table last night okay if they really did want to get a traitor and obviously some of the people at the table do then what they should have said to themselves is the only people we can vote for here are cat or kate garraway okay you are on a prime time public service broadcasting show do you think that they've made the traitors three men so okay one of these women has to be a traitor vote for one of them it doesn't you know it almost doesn't matter which but vote for one of them obviously not if you're cattle but everyone else at that table should have thought i've got to vote for a woman here because realistically one of these two i'm at least on the 50 50 which given our track record has been so appalling vote the man now representation has changed in that way so you would know that if you thought about it you would know yeah and And as you say, there's almost no women left.

4:31Well, now there's one woman left, and she is a traitor, and that is Kat. So we have to talk about the position that everyone is in now, and it seems to me that the person in the worst position is David. I don't see any gameplay whereby David is what I do, but we will get to it. We have Joe and Nick, who at the moment seem solid. They're going to vote as a block. We have Kat and Alan, who are solid, and they are going to vote as a block. for sure. David, let's imagine, teams up with Joe and Nick, in which case probably the Faithfuls will win. If David decides to team up with Alan and Kat, then for sure the Traitors will win.

5:13But either way, when you get down to that bottom three, so let's say they vote off Alan and Kat, let's say they work it through. Nick, Joe and David in that last three, there's nothing to be gained by keeping David in and obviously if Kat and Alan get through to the last three they have nothing to be gained by keeping David in so David I think it's almost impossible for David to win this unless this is the only situation I can think of unless Nick's beginning of suspicion against Joe Marler goes further and that little coterie is broken up I agree with you I would like to say something about Joe Marler at the beginning you said to me oh I reckon he's going to go to pieces later on right I love Joe Marler I think that there's been a complete lack of respect and I've got I find it very interesting within this game as I said last week there is a sort of class-based thing or intellect as class as there's a sort of weird deference in this version of the game where you know he kept saying to David you know as an intelligent man you know being very intelligent man I by the way David God bless my goal hanger stable mate he's absolutely brilliant he is incredibly intelligent but he has not played this game incredibly intelligently and i don't believe he's still there he's still there yes but as we've said many times before there is a benefit to not playing the game well because he has never been perceived as a threat and there is always a benefit to that um and you know if you get if you look at who he's voted for um if he gets to the end he can maybe plausibly deny that this was a plan all along um but he's voted for nico steven claire steven and nick okay okay you want to tell me that okay maybe he's playing 90 chess okay joe marler has had the best idea which was that there's no they're never going in actually really intelligent form of selection they'll never put steven and jonathan both as traitors because he but they will put one of them but they will put one of them in.

7:15He's had the best idea. He's pursued Jonathan throughout and he's understood how to do it. I really think that in the normal civilian version of this game, Joe Marler would be a much more significant sort of rallying person. And I tell you why, because he's, you know, the rugby player, he puts his back like physically into the task, but he would be seen as a natural authority figure because of sport and because of things like that. These are not sport people, Richard, okay? They got rid of the two sport people. You and I both know, who do you think the biggest sports fans around recent roundtables are?

7:47There aren't any. And there isn't that natural... Understanding. Why does society, you would have much more deference to someone like Joe Marler and his clarity and his simplicity of purpose and his actual leadership would be acknowledged more. And he has no fear of upsetting important people. Among his art crowd, Richard, with their shiny flaws and their envelope openings. What do you think Joe Marler would make of you if you were on that show? Do you think he'd think you were a hundy? Well, it depends on what I was. I think he's quite good at seeing through people, I think. I wouldn't like to have that gaze turned upon me.

8:25I have a little message from Joe that he sent this morning. What? Have you actually? Yeah, bless him. Hi, Marina. It's Joe Marler here. I just wanted to say that you and Richard are both big dogs, but you are my absolute hundy all the best big love goodbye absolute hundy i'm gonna listen to it like no more than 450 times i i love you joe marler i i that's that means a lot but no he has played he's played an incredible game he dropped the ball a tiny bit he was he was the one that saying oh well don't forget traitors often drop a little parting shot and you know so he said David so he's looking at David and David had not thrown Jonathan under the bus so he would have no reason but Jonathan had sat in the back of the car with Joe yeah and said to him if it was me I'd be looking at Alan and I'd be looking at yes he did he did it so he did throw the other traitors under the bus but he did it actually in a bus Joe was there when it was done on Wednesday's episode Joe finally said I'll tell you what if I'm wrong vote me out tomorrow it's like wow how have we got this far in this version of the game before I hear that line before someone said that you hear that in like episode two in the normal version okay stick it all on the line and say it and I think it was quite helpful but I I'm a big fan of his and I think he's had incredible clarity all the way through I think he's he reads things brilliantly I think if if Nick can continue because he's also built that you know he's trusted Nick and understood that Nick has something that he doesn't have and i think he hates everyone else in the game which i thought you can believe it though you want to believe that secretly he hates all these people he loved joe wilkinson and he and he likes nick and that's it right and i love that if there feels like there's genuine niggle it's probably fake but i just there's something about it that's just like i've got no time for any of this but if nick holds the line yeah i think joe will hold the line i think joe will hold the line with nick i think i do too if nick holds the line with joe there's your two winners right there.

10:37If Nick gets inside his own head, because this is the thing about being clever, is sometimes you can be too clever. Nick will be thinking, yes, but if that were true then this is true. But if that were true, then this is true. And if that were true, then the double bluff and the triple bluff would be this. And that means X. It must be Joe. That's what I would be doing at this stage of the game. I'd be thinking, what's the cleverest thing I can think of? Why don't I do that? Whereas actually the cleverest thing I can think of is not to think of the cleverest thing I can think of. you know that's that that's a smart play here um if he does go against joe one way or another then how does that play out if he decides that joe it will leave a sad taste in the mouth let me tell you that emotionally how it plays out can we talk about adam there okay i okay he's now a fully minted national treasure he it's just it's it's beyond he's also but he remains an unbelievably high delivering entertainment booking at all points he is giving you something and he's providing gloss and asides that are you know i mean honestly when he said when he said to celia yeah you can't just compliment everyone and then keep it you can't just keep complimenting everyone and then just voting for them i mean there's a number of drive-bys and there are ones where you're just not quite sure i wondered whether there even was some genuine nipple with kate i wasn't quite sure about it there were moments where it was and you can see him with joe as well you can see around the round table the two of them are are absolutely butting horns if i'm a producer right you go okay we're down we're down to our final five no evictions and of course no no murder and of course there's no murder because that does make the maths impossible so that's the the slight dead hand of the producer but you know in a way that's absolutely acceptable because once you're down to five or four there are different permutations and you have to let the game play out which is what they've done there but if i'm if i'm sitting there in the gallery and I'm saying, Claudia, why don't we get them all just to look everyone else in the eye and say, I am a faithful.

12:34Why don't we do that? And if you're Claudia, even me, if I'm at the back of the gallery, I'm like, I mean, it feels like that's not really going to show anything, is it? I mean, you just be like, I get it, but it's just one of those moments. And then you get to Alan and he literally falls to pieces and literally starts laughing halfway through, I am a faithful. I mean he's already forgotten he had a shield now he's laughing halfway through saying I am a faithful and the highly persuasive Joe Marler has categorised it just as you did right at the very start when you knew who the bookings were saying it's good for comedians because they can deflect with humour and Joe Marler actually explicitly said I think you deflect with humour and I think I mean that wasn't even a deflection I mean my goodness it really wasn't it feels like they've sort of got Kat's number as well I think it's certainly Nikki feel has she's been able to say all along I'm not great in social situations and she's done it in a very nice way and I'm not brilliant which is true but also it's been quite useful she's been able to do that but I think at this stage you can't do that anymore yes I think there's no hiding place anymore I think she should have been the leader of the people.

13:53I think she shouldn't have even let Jo Marla say anything before she said, I've got to say, Jonathan, I've been thinking about this a long time. I think it's you. Going in the slipstream of others, which, as we know, is the kind of, you know, Yeah, the herd. Well, that form of behaviour, which is very useful for traitors. But ultimately, I think, I don't know, if I were her, I'd have thought, I can't see how this is going to work out for Jonathan tonight. And I'm going to be the one leading it all. because then people would have said and actually they had they didn't do this with joe marler even afterwards which they didn't say i wish they would have done a normal version of the game you know you're fated all the way back to the bar and you've become the traitor hunter because you've got the traitor and i mean actually celia was banished i'm sorry when celia was murdered i mean she's so funny we all tell her i she i love her so much and we all tell ourselves silly philip tips about ourselves but she said i was because i was brave enough to get the okay can i just talk about your votes please celia in this entire show charlotte cat david jonathan david joe marler and then jonathan that's not bad though that's three so yeah cat and alan have only one chance of winning and that is to persuade david um it's just one episode next week and we're going to see who wins at the end of that alan and cat have to have to have to persuade david of their point of view or they've got to somehow try and knock nick off course so what they have to do is persuade david that either nick or joe is a possible is a possible traitor and once they do that then uh then they they have a they have a path to victory why didn't they murder Nick to what caused chaos I mean there's enough chaos already with this line I mean chaos was great early on yeah it does you know it does work chaos early on just but that was crazy and simply not explained the way it was edited we didn't get to see their brilliant reasoning because I went to laugh to have heard it yeah but the fact that Joe and Nick are still there is a absolute fault yeah of the traitors you know it really is it's a huge issue for them now and if those two guys can play this properly, then they are definitely going to win and the traitors are in huge trouble.

16:12You know, time and time again, we say the job of the faithful is not to weed out traitors. So this is one of the few series in the history of traitors where there's not been a recruitment yeah it's not been a recruitment because they picked off their first traitor sort of at the perfect time we've talked before about the best thing to be as a recruited traitor so i went i've done a deep dive into the statistics of every single series of traitors everywhere around the world to see if that's actually true because it feels like it's true but is it can i and we know it's true in our hearts but is it true some of my findings yeah by the way traitors win more often than faithfuls okay so traitors have won 32 out of those 60 series faithful have won 26 and there's been two sort of no result type things because of people mucking about with the format if you are an original traitor so we start imagine we're right at the beginning 19 people we got jonathan we got adam we got kat the chance of an original traitor winning traitors is 17 okay you have a 17 chance of being the winner of traitors if you're at the beginning there if you're a faithful at the beginning it is six percent you have a six chance of winning this game because you've got to last a really really long time yeah and people will try and banish you and you you were definitely going to you know someone is definitely trying to murder you so you know you've got there's a lot of trouble there so it's 60 17 if you're original 6 if you're faithful if you are recruited as a traitor across these 60 series 25 listen there will be maths geeks out there who will say to me quite rightly that if you are recruited you're later on in the process anyway.

17:53So the numbers wouldn't be as far apart as they sound, but it is definitively... It's the strongest position in the game. The strongest position in the game. And not this one. So this one, and now, you know, we're down to 3v2. You would say that all other things being equal, everyone's got an exactly equal chance. I think the faithful have a mathematical advantage now. I think they have that kind of moral alliance advantage. They have a strong psychiatric advantage, although, as you say, Nick could be too clever. Traitors do win more often than faithfuls, for sure. But that has started to change recently.

18:28So in the first few years, so 2023, five faithful wins around the world. So just five faithful wins. 2024, six faithful wins. 2025, 11 faithful wins. The faithfuls are getting smarter and working out, especially how to play their end game. And does the game favour men or women? What would your gut say? My gut says it favours women. Just. 66 female winners, 63 male winners. When I'm thinking of all the internationals, yes. Yeah, that's almost statistically insignificant, especially if we have two men winning this. We'll be almost identical. But what is interesting about that number, 66 and 63, adds up to 129.

19:07We've had 60 series, so when you're down to two, which is what you get to, which is the minimum you can get to, it would be 120. It shows that actually, in the end, there's very very very rarely three winners even if there are three of you and you're pretty sure you're all faithful there is nothing to lose in the two of you who are the strongest friends getting rid of someone which is where David is going to lose out because Joe and Nick if it's Joe Nick and David at the end David can sort of say whatever he wants there is nothing to lose really for Nick to vote him out. Because, I mean, if they're wrong and, you know, he is faithful, then they'll feel guilty for a while.

19:49But if he were a traitor, that would be a very bad mistake to make. So there is nothing to be gained in three people winning this. If they did, wouldn't that be lovely? It'd be a lovely reflection of trust and human nature. But it feels to me like we're going to have, this is going to be a two-winnerer, and it's either going to be Anna and Kat, or it's going to be Nick and Joe. I don't feel like he gets into his own head but he's like Chuck Norris I didn't imagine him sleeping at all during the entire time he was there Chuck Norris doesn't sleep he waits A couple of notices of the dead hand of the producer because there were so few of them going to the task on Wednesday's show who are the two people they put in a car together?

20:34Kat and Alan As a producer you're thinking that is not two people but they are not natural bedfellows, those two, and they're not natural plotters. So if we leave them to their own devices, then they might not at any point work out that now's the time to ditch Jonathan. And now was the time to ditch Jonathan, for sure. And Jonathan was trying to work out how to ditch Cat or Alex. It's the one thing that would have saved him. He sort of half-heartedly tried to leave them, but it was quite half-hearted. As I say, I love the way Jonathan played it. I haven't loved the noises off, because I keep seeing him doing podcasts or doing and talking about it.

21:11He has also said, I've had celebrities, my celebrity friends are asking me whether I should do it next time and I'm giving the benefit of my wisdom and saying I didn't enjoy it, so telling them not to. Oh, he said something absolutely brilliant at one point, which was totally true, which was, you know, about the quality of the opposition, which was essentially, you know, if you play it properly and the shields are something to go for, for yourself, as opposed to just treating it like some sort of nice, polite thing. I mean he was in despair of it having said that that would have been the TV moment of the year if Celia when she was putting Cat on the thing if she thought actually you know what I think I'll put myself up there if she put herself up there I think it would have been so funny and furthermore she wouldn't have got murdered you want to say well surely Joe and Nick are going to win this but we've seen this show so many times and we've seen what can happen in that final episode and again watch in that last episode just watch if producers put any groupings together watch if they have any particular games that sort of push people in a certain direction not not not in a cheating way but just to let people have conversations you might not normally have conversations watch if they innovate in any way like they did with the seer or anything like any sort of novel device that is inserted into that final bit because if i was the producer what i would be thinking is this end game plays out in a very simple way which is yeah i know i know that that's the likely thing and i'm also thinking maybe that's not the greatest end to my series i mean it sort of is because it's lovely for joe and nick to win because they've shown such kind of skill throughout and because they're so different it reminded me a little bit of our that bonus episode we did about mike darnell where he finally found a way of in joe millionaire of wanting of getting like four reveals in the final episode which was insane just stacking them all the time so all the time you think oh it can't get there can't be another piece of drama there can be so if they can find a way of just putting one more layer of drama into that because again lots of bit when you see formats lots of it is oh my god we got a problem here how do we put a sticking plaster on it and so this idea of actually after when there's five left no one reveals what they are we don't reveal if they're a traitor or or a faithful that is definitively a sticking plaster right that's okay we got a problem here in our end game sometimes sticking past this make your show better in that environment over a week being locked up almost constantly i've talked to a couple of contestants this week by the way about the living conditions oh my god it's extreme yeah it's extreme and not not in a you know there's no privations but it is definitively in a bubble you are allowed to think about nothing but the game and so in that situation in that final episode if you can really turn the screw and you you you are denuded of information even further than you have been already, that's the time when somebody could crack.

24:00And again, it's an hour long. And a lot of people have a lot of theories about a lot of people. And Joe Marlowe, you can see, is being given the hero edit. But he's been given the hero edit because firstly, you can edit it that way because he is getting a lot right. And secondly, because he's given so much value to the producers. He's named his theories. He's the story. In that way that when they get someone on a history documentary to do Talking Head, and what you're doing there really is providing the connective tissue between this bit of footage of Hitler and this bit of footage of something else and if you say it really really clearly then they're just going to keep asking you back because you're the guy who can say if you say I think you deflect using humor and you just say it so clearly then you're the dream for the producer because you've said it exactly and you're very very clear and you say I think my game plan tomorrow is going to be to do this because this then you're that person weirdly he's the comes the least from that world because his primary career was doing something completely different so next thursday the final very exciting um i'm going to be in germany but germany's an hour ahead so i think it finishes i think i'll be able to watch it live and then we can do our uh episode live and talk all about it i'm very very excited about that we'll see you for like a regular episode on uh on tuesday and we'll see you for another celebrity traders reaction one next thursday so exciting see you next week guys

25:31This episode was brought to you by our good friends at Sky. The Sky Glass TV is a television that insists on dressing for the occasion, transforming your living room from background noise into a set-piece premiere worthy of Sky Atlantic. As the nights get longer, it's the perfect time to settle in for a movie night with quality entertainment on Sky. Just say the name of your favourite film into your Sky remote like Wicked and let the magic unfold right in your living room. And the built-in Dolby Atmos doesn't just play sound, it performs it. Think blockbuster sound without leaving the sofa. It's cinematic quality in your own home with the Sky Glass auto-adjust feature.

26:05And not sure what to watch? Well Sky's curated recommendation will find something for everyone. Let's scroll more story and the perfect way to make the most of those longer evenings. For more information visit sky.com requires relevant Sky TV subscriptions, broadband recommended minimum speed, 30 megabits per second, 18 plus UK, Channel Islands and Isle of Man only.