CELEBRITY TRAITORS: Week Three Reaction

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1:54Well, hello and welcome to this special bonus episode of The Restless Entertainment with me, Marina Hyde. Oh good, and me, Richard Osmond. I almost forgot my name there, I'm so shook. I'm sorry, I've got to wait till next Wednesday to get to the bottom of that. I mean, what an inevitable thing to say, but one of the big dogs is gone and it's the wrong one. Wow, classic traitors. So much happened in the last ten minutes that I want to forensically... We will go back over both of the last two episodes, but goodness me. Okay. It is finally danger time. It's actually danger time now. Oshakoko. For the faithful.

2:31There's only nine of them left and three of them are traitors. The banishment of someone. I don't think we use titles in banishments, but okay, they did. Sir Stephen Fry. Yes. It didn't say like Mr. Nick Muhammad. You know, we don't use the title, but anyway, we did. And Claudia said, you've lost such a powerful player. Now, I would question that. I would say they lost an influential player, but he failed to use that influence to meaningfully shape the game. If he was waiting to move, and I think that's quite possible because obviously he understands the whole, we don't need to get anyone just yet, stay in this lip stream, etc.

3:04If he was waiting to move, he left it too late. He did. It's tricky again because he is sort of aware, you know, when he's horrified that they said, oh, you're the leader of the pack. And I get it because you don't want to be seen as that. But he sort of knows deep down that he was. And that's why he'd had to play it slightly under the radar. In an earlier episode when the Big Dog theory had been floated for the very first time last week, he did say, well, of course, I thought the same thing myself. So I'm not totally convinced that he, you know. Also, can we just, before we get on to anything, can we talk about this position that doesn't exist, which is the lead traitor?

3:38It's like, okay, this isn't a thing, guys. I just want you to know. I think I've got an idea of like the number two and number three traitors. That's easier, but I think it's probably more important to get the lead traitor first. It's not Al-Qaeda. It's like the head vampire, like Max and the Lost Boys. There isn't a lead traitor. Like that deck of cards that the CIA had when they were trying to kill all of that. I mean, we confidently predicted. We talked last time. We were all together last Thursday, everybody. We could not see a way in which Jonathan survived the next two episodes. He's played a blinder.

4:10And yet, there he is. And yeah, he's played and he's actually relaxed into it. Yeah. Even more so. And he's got the most powerful of the faithful, Joe Marler, literally sitting opposite him, staring at him, saying, I know that it is you. I'm going to do the whole podcast like this. Okay, to you, because I've got my, for the benefit of the tape, I have my arms folded. Joe Marler is playing this game with the aggro of a civilian. And I am 100 % angry. He's so angry. He is. that's why he's just perfect for the show because he is you know what he no respecter of status inside or outside the house he just says i know i've got one job like he goes on the rugby pitch i know i've got one job we score more points than the other team that's what we do he's got one job uh to leave faithfuls there instead of traitors it's the only job there no ego no nothing it's just let's get it done do i have to bring the harvest in myself yes apparently you do i mean he really has absolutely effing had it hasn't he i think in a great way if at any point two people as different yet in some way similar as nick muhammad and joe marler team up and attending you the same thing either one of two things is happening either they are both traitors or they are both faithfuls and they are right and that might be the time to go okay why don't we just throw everything behind the leader of the faithful because if there's a leader of the traitors there must be a leader of the faithful.

5:37And if you'd made it, Joe... These are not real positions. I just want to restate this. Not real positions. I am the assistant to the regional manager. That would be if there's six of them out of nine. Okay, but have they missed that moment? It's still doable, but not really. Well, not really because I know we're having to do lots of things in reverse here. But given who is facing the face-to-face murder... Facing the face-to-face. Kate, Nick and Lucy. Yeah. I mean, surely you're going to have to get rid of Nick because he's just too dangerous. Kate, we'll have to come to that in a minute. Kate can stay as long as she wants.

6:13Stay as long as you like. Stay as long as you like. Lucy is, without question, was one of the first people in these episodes to start saying, well, excuse me, we need to play the game as she's seen the civilian version of the game being played. We need to actually start getting numbers before we come in here. We need to have theories and we need to back them all the way. She understands that that needs to happen. She's more dangerous. As you said, she's really come into her own. She has said two things in the last episode, both of which I heartily agree with. David is saying, well, get on to David and all that.

6:43But he's saying, well, of course, I'm going to be in trouble tomorrow. And Lucy said, oh, we tend to move on, to be honest. Yes, it was. Which was so astute because what she's trying to say is we're playing this game not in the way that I've seen it played by the civilians when they played it before. We start a new every day. If David's in trouble in the normal version of Traitors, they'd be right back there the following day on him saying, well now I'm just going to keep doing this until and then she said hold on a minute what if they're not geniuses which is right and if you ally that with what Stephen said at the end which is this game is stacked against the faithfuls that's absolutely right they don't need to do a lot they don't need to be geniuses you don't need to beat yourself up you don't need to get caught up in the maelstrom of he said she said all of that stuff you just have to take a little step back I think probably in that environment and talking to people who've been in it and they said the environment is fervid.

7:37You're in it the whole time. You should just sit back. Don't worry too much about the traitors. Only one or two people are going to win this whole thing anyway. It's probably not going to be you. There's 19 people. And just play the game. But is Nick going to survive to be able to? I mean, surely he's just too dangerous. The thing he did where he strategically said, I'm going to let you win to Joe Marla. And then I wouldn't say this was the biggest mistake, made at that round table that we've just seen but it was the second biggest mistake I think probably to say oh I did this by the way I fixed it because for whatever reason if they have nothing to cling on to they say oh that's such it's so stupid it is genuinely the opposite of what a traitor would do to say oh I fixed something you just wouldn't say well Kate says this is the only evidence I have of lying you think what him him telling the truth about something you just did is the only evidence you have of lying and then you know at the end she said well um of course there's only one person who's shown they're willing to do the traitor's work and get rid of faithfuls and he said he's literally just said to you in my estimation there were more faithfuls on the other team and so i'm trying to save faithfuls as much as i can and he's trying to explain that and i've just got you're trying to get rid of faithfuls you know it's i mean it's it's tricky before that it's very difficult to be clever in this game it is do you know what and i love nick as you know in every way both on screen and off screen i think it was a step too far in terms of gameplay and i think he probably knows that as well i think the moment he said no i did this deliberately he's thinking there are board game evenings where this would really work yeah oh this would slay as a gambit and people are going do you know what he's absolutely right yeah he's absolutely right whereas on this people are going oh but what you mean you lied yeah it's like yeah i think they're playing one dimensional chess yes they don't even that's a too much of a stretch and honestly he would win if you play two-dimensional chess but he's choosing to play four dimensional the biggest mistake though alan tony montana car saying but making a real bish and saying oh wait i have got a shield yeah that's it that is and who spotted it yeah joe marler yeah and even in the round table when they're you know you don't have to be like you know you don't have to have this um sort of mood he goes yeah but i'm trying to get rid of traitors and jonathan goes we're all trying to get rid of traitors and he just goes well we're not all trying to get rid of traitors are we i think amazing well in a funny way someone else who's also gone i mean who also sort of slightly plays it like a civilian is was mark who was very emotional and the emotion i felt so gutted for him so did i yeah it was it was like watching a competitive version of the death penalty when you know that both people are innocent yeah and you're like oh no this is a lot to go through to to get rid of one fairly useful faithful well david hello welcome to the game Mr Olusoga I mean I am going to use the title Mr Olusoga OBE yes yes as soon as he got threatened and suddenly you think oh he's turned up yeah he has absolutely turned up to the game now be careful because you're clever it is amazing how someone's saying we need to be analytical because they do actually do need to start they do actually we are nearing the point where they're you've got to look at the numbers now yes yeah um we we always say and and it's absolutely correct when there are nine of you left and three of them are traitors and those three could vote as a block from here on in and all they've got to do is muddy the water one more time and get like a fourth along to go with them very hard to beat that and then get that person got rid of and suddenly you are you are yeah but if you're cat or if you're alan or if you're jonathan who's a weaker position you don't want to share all the money you know that's the that's the point the only thing that can kill the traitors now all of them going over the 10 000 pounds that they would never do a corporate for i i think i've seen enough of that now uh so you know the i think that if the traitors wanted to just team up and go the three of us will get through to the end of this which actually would make sense in terms of charity and what have you i think i still think it's hard for him yeah but there's also the muscle memory of every episode of traitors you've ever seen that makes you go oh no i i do sort of want to turn on my fellow traitors you You can see Kat sort of desperate to turn on Jonathan.

11:41Well, I'm sorry, how come it was not said in the turret, although we haven't seen their second turret, but she mentioned him at the round table and it wasn't discussed. And now she's done it again, also at the round table. Intriguing. Yeah, I think Jonathan's quite calm about it, right? I think he understands that the three of them having at least some sort of unity is probably useful. If it's open warfare, he knows he's going to lose. He needs everything to stay under the radar a little bit. He knows that Kat has more power than him. You can see he knows that. And he knows that you have to be a person who says names that some of the rest of the group say.

12:18I mean, that was a large part of the problem with Stephen. He couldn't make a mark. He didn't want to put his pen down and say, well, I think it's... He couldn't say it. Some people thought there was some kind of clever alliance with Kate Garroway, who also apparently professionally is unable to have an opinion. I think that she said it's because of my job that I can't have opinions I think you have an opinion by now Yeah I shouldn't be allowed to vote I cannot vote I'm so sorry So you think Nick goes from Kate Nick and Lucy He's obviously too dangerous So Nick got rid of Stephen Nick has built an alliance with Joe but has also tried to build an alliance with Kat and Jonathan who he thinks are traitors and can we take a moment to note that that is the way to win this game Yeah and he's explicitly said what he's doing which is I'm going to keep them so they think I could never never turn on them and then at the end I'll throw them under the bus I will say quickly before I go on, genius though he is.

13:07He's also said a lot of other names that aren't real. Yes, he has. So he said, look, I believe it to be Cat and Jonathan. The best way to play this game is to keep them around because I need them to keep me around and we'll worry about who the traitors are at the very end. And that's the way to play the game. And that's the way he's playing it. They don't know he is doing that. They don't have that information. The information they do have is that he's sort of on side with them. But they know he's clever and they know he's done something that's really off the wall in terms of doing something very strategic to sabotage a game.

13:42But he was wrong. For me, it's too much of a liability. I would get red. Do you think? I love him, but I would get red. See, I would worry not more about Lucy. I know what you mean. But I see there's an argument for Lucy because with Nick... I'd still recruit her. Yeah, but Nick is so clever. He's like a big judo player and you can use his weight against him. Whereas Lucy... there's no way you know if she gets something between the teeth she's not she's not going to let it go whereas with Nick you might be able to I bet you could yeah I bet I couldn't but so I think probably not Kate because where's the benefit in getting rid of Kate and also there is some heat on her already in the parlance of the show in the parlance of the show well if they were to get Jonathan and they recruited again then you would have to recruit David or Lucy surely I am not sure they would recruit if they were down to because it's getting so small now so there may be none of that I think if they got down to what if they get two traitors in a row I think if they got rid of a traitor now so we're going to be down to eight after this group after this thing so in the next banishment we'll be down to seven but it can happen very quickly with Alan regrettably now after this Shield instance it could suddenly having gone nowhere and when they've had so little success it could swing around so quickly on him it was a huge it was a big error that yeah it was a huge error But then, you know, Jonathan made a series of errors and is absolutely because people are overthinking and are not sticking to their guns.

15:10If they get a traitor next, they don't recruit. If they get two traitors in a row, I suspect they do recruit. David or Lucy? David or Lucy. Or Nick if he's in there. Whoever is still in there out of Nick and Lucy. I can't see Nick going, even though he obviously fully understands the game. It's funny how, unless everyone understands it in the same way. yeah that's the problem yeah it's like if when you're playing chess against someone who doesn't know how to play chess yeah then it can be really hard they can literally just throw the board up in the air right celia celia i mean yeah epic yeah she's amazing okay if kate garraway's stock is going slightly down because not you know not showing up enough as an entertainment booking celia umri is just every i'm watching her go up and up every second second she's on the screen absolutely hilarious there is a fan do you have heard about this mad fan theory I'm quite into some of the fan theories Celia has been named as a sort of detective character and she's some sort of mole within the game I don't it's bizarre how much like traction this has got I don't believe that can be the case because what we as we've said before joy of this particular game is that you you the viewer does feel omniscient and sometimes there are little bits like you know Diane and Ross and that's a sort of fun thing but it's not it's not a sort of huge like I mean it gets to be like the TV moment of the year or whatever but it's not something like you'd say oh well that's just a complete swizz now you've just fooled me and you pulled the world over you can't hide things from me I would say having spent some time with Celia over the last year absolutely every single thing she has done is consistent with her own personality the traitors have said who's the weakest who's the most two-faced and it's a staple of reality TV and has been forever and ever and ever or you know lying yourself in order of attractiveness all of those things and it's a brilliant way of getting amongst a group and a brilliant way of exposing who traitors are.

17:02So it's a really neat thing. But then they go, okay, so who's the most two-faced? You think that is textbook. That goes to the heart of everything. You know, because are the traitors going to say one of themselves? And Celia just goes, oh, I think me, don't you? Yeah. Oh, I think I do. Because I often say I like people, but I don't really. And even Alan, who obviously understands the format very, very well and understands it as an entertainment format, said, I mean, I thought we were going to have tears, you know, shouting. seeing people storming off it's just someone saying no i really just would have to put myself forward on this one and kate to her immense benefit as well when they said he's the weakest player she goes i i sort of have to put my hand up to that one yeah you know it's so you put your hand up for something it's like i'm a huge john le carrie fan uh but you know there are le carrie novels where you're in the middle of them and so many people are playing so many people off against each other and there are so many different sides and it's like you know there's a suddenly a dodecahedron of prisms of light going everywhere.

17:58That was Nick and Joe Marler choosing between Jonathan and Stephen and having to fix who we go for because of who's in the different groups. I mean, that was, even Le Carre would have had to have a couple of pages where he sort of went back and did a little bit of explanation. I mean, that was so through the looking glass. I mean, I love it. Oh, my God, me too. I absolutely loved it. but you just think you're not going to be Nick I know amazing and Joe's like but rolled with it yeah but you say even but when it happened you think absolutely get it I mean he's wrong Nick unusually but the one thing you're definitely thinking is that is not going to play at the round table my friend nobody is going to go he goes no no but think about it no no one's thinking about it this is a venue where people think that if you're not sufficiently grateful for having a shield then you're definitely a traitor which in this case, if you actually forget, you have one.

18:56I think that is a bit of a howler, but it is very route one. They hate anything that deviates from their lack of imagination. It may be a thing, and we haven't really talked about it, that because they are all, you know, they come at it from different spheres. They all sort of know each other, but they all have their own careers that are sort of adjacent to each other, that they have not been able to coalesce in any useful way. they do have an independence that is lacking from the regular version well as we keep saying they want the life on the outside is very important that takes primacy it is for two different audiences well there's there's one person in there who probably just the one person in there who could be immediately useful to you in the outside world and that's jonathan because he's got his own chat show and he's very well connected and this or the other and being in being in his orbit it would be a useful thing and you can see an awful lot of people in there think that and that's not something that anyone has to think about in the regular version but that's why it is so great having joe in there because i mean joe 100 that would be a you know writes a book next year goes on jonathan ross absolutely could see that he does not give oh he's not going to halloween party let me tell you that he's gonna get it shut down yeah even though he like you can immediately there's like 50 costumes that would be amazing on him yeah jonathan ross has a famous halloween party every year so point that out um but check the arrivals because i don't think i'm going to be seeing joe barna among them but maybe i will maybe i will maybe you are yeah i don't i don't think we've seen joe i don't think we'll be seeing claire uh i think there's a number of people there's a there's a number of people who will not who will not be at that party but yeah so joe seems to be immune to it where actually it's really uncool to be clever yeah a little bit there's a there's a lot of that right so it's just very difficult i've only just noticed that thing because it was slightly out of character olashoga saying the thing about Stephen Fry is he's a genius and that of course is someone who's enormously clever he kept saying it as well by the way this way they are murdering this week which which I definitely they've done in the UK version before where you see the traitors when they murder you but they have done in the US version and is incredibly exciting and affecting I'm very much looking forward I'm dying for that that's the thing as well I mean Kate is going it's just definitely going to be me and you go talk us through that talk us talk us through why the traitors would be more likely to get rid of you than get rid of say one interesting thing go on go in your little diary room and say something i have to say i because you need every uh angle on this i think she genuinely understands uh that she is playing it differently to other people she did a funny video this week trying to sort of lean into that whole thing that alan carl had said about going into the broom cupboard you know so she did that i have to say alan and cat did a tiktok where they like did it to nine to five and they put on like we're getting ready and getting on their traitor's cloaks and of course that spawned millions of fan theories because where's jonathan you know and they were all going down the street celebrities are slightly liabilities in that way because i don't think you really should be doing that probably i probably rather you didn't do that it is the now the current eternal conundrum of the publicity officer which is they want you to do a tiktok but also they don't want you to do a tiktok yeah or if they do they say can you do exactly the tiktok i want you to do I will do a TikTok for you but it has to be mine so they were sort of skipping down the street and there was no Jonathan and so then everyone was like well they've just done a spoiler that there's no Jonathan or you know why didn't they pass a bus because maybe Jonathan will be underneath it yeah so they haven't done that it is worth noting that across the last two episodes every single vote that came in not a single vote for Alan not a single vote for Kat those are days are gone I don't know either because with that Alan thing will people even remember I mean Alan says I mean the trouble is because Joe's got his Jonathan theory and you can only go for one he might throw some other manure around and say well by the way sorry i can we all at least talk about the fact that alan did not even remember he had a shield that is mega suspicious i still think it's jonathan but you know he might put that catamaran's opinions and and should do if no one else does well if nick's gone who who has joe got to help so lucy is smart but i don't think there's a big connection between her and joe obviously the three traitors are not going to be helpful in any way david is a bit of a lone wolf it's quite difficult he's got to lead his life according to the night rider creed one man can make a difference did you see the message we got from one of our listeners after you talked about how great the drivers are you say these stunt drivers who are you and i do not drive and therefore consequently incredibly impressed by driving and i thought the way that they do you know they really coordinate all the land rovers and whatever and actually it was one of the sort of producers saying it was a researcher i think no it's just us it's just us we're trying to like do all this other stuff at the same time listen to what they're saying do yeah but yeah we did pull up under the porch pretty nicely didn't we yes you did say yeah i will i will accept we absolutely nailed the portico driving it looks really good well we're very impressed by any form of driving enormously impressive thing i won't name that person because listen you know you never know if uh if if you're supposed to do that sort of thing or not you know what we're talking about is it going to be difficult for alan when alan was talking about maybe getting with a steven yeah and he said well the thing about it is it would absolutely blow their minds and he says uh he said and with this it always takes them a couple of days to recalibrate which was so astute yeah and it's and it's it's exactly right isn't it so you can they tend not to be able to focus on two things at once like a jackdaw that's just spotted a weasel it doesn't want it can't see a stoat at the same time another thing he said i thought was very telling about like how actually the game it's so claustrophobic being in there he said oh my god week one alan and you're thinking you have actually only really been there about five days but you do feel like you've been there about you know a month yeah um and so that was a sort of telling sense of how time works in the castle which for us on the outside of the game can often feel like oh come on how can you not but i do think time works differently when you're sort of removed from absolutely everything the other question we've had from lots and lots of our listeners thanks everybody and by the way how much do we enjoy doing these i'm really i'm so happy that people enjoy listening to them because it's just lovely to talk about it's like sport but for television yes exactly but people keep asking who's the dream cast for the next series well obviously i want to see roy keen that just goes without saying roy keen would be amazing i think roy keen and micah richards yeah well shira think about shira okay let's do the sports ones first okay andy murray really come on if not judy judy would be incredible judy would be very very good Judy takes absolutely zero nonsense from anyone.

25:17Christian Horner. What? Christian Horner. You don't want Christian Horner to be in Traitors. Do you know how happy I would be? I think then I would have Stendhal's injury. What does he bring, though? What doesn't he bring? He's a full threat. He loves to talk. Think how long his diary room pieces would be. He tries to make the show all about him. It would be a blaze of glory. A football manager type would be very... People who are used to doing post-match analysis. The sporting person, I think, would be amazing in there. just in terms of status, stature, how seriously they'd be taken, how amazing they'd be as a faithful, but also how incredible they'd be as a traitor, is Gareth Southgate.

25:51Don't you think, Sir Gareth? Righty would be brilliant. Oh my God. Righty would be the Joe Marler. He would be just deeply emotional the whole time and really, really care. Mark Bonner fused with Joe Marler. Wow. Righty would be amazing. Colleen, if not, Rebecca Vardy will probably do it. Colleen's a great idea. Colleen Rooney. Yeah, well, you know she wants to do different things or else she wouldn't be doing things she's done. No politicians at all. No, I don't think so. Absolutely no politicians. I think that's not anyone with any sort of divisiveness in that sort of way. That's the beauty of this format.

26:27You don't have to have someone who stirs the pot. Oh, no, you know what? It'd be great because they just, you know, they say what they think. No, you know what? We all say what we think all the time. Actually, what we don't do is tell you we're saying what we're thinking. We just do it. anyone ever tells you they're saying what they're thinking you absolutely, they're on the grift well they've, yes, but they've also just watched so much reality TV that they feel that they have to constantly, you know gloss themselves just say what you think, almost any comedian you know, like, I mean obviously I think someone like Lou Sanders would be absolutely great, I mean Lou, she's such a maverick it's so funny, I mean how would she even fit in?

27:05Johnny Vegas I think would be very, very good, I'd like to see that, he would be disruptive, Roisin I'd like to see in there. She would be fantastic. I think she'd be terrific. A few left-afield people, because we can all, listen, we want famous people. Jennifer Saunders, by the way, I thought would be amazing in there. I'd love her to go in there. A few left-afield, Rebecca Lucy Taylor, self-esteem, would be amazing, because she's funny, she's opinionated, she's got the Joe Marler, absolute Sheffield Steel going all the way through, or Rotherham Steel, I think maybe. Loyal Karner, I always absolutely love on anything he ever does.

27:38He's so smart. I think he'd be an amazing person to have in there. And Lisa Tarbuck, I'd love to see in there. Kirsty Young, because she listens. People who are listening and looking for... Celia has, although she kind of is such a maverick, she goes in different directions, but noticing the absence of things is so significant. Like, she noticed the absence of something in Kat, and that was significant, and she may go back to that. What about Jason Isaacs? He's totally unfiltered. I think he'd be good. Oh, my God. Do you think he'd do it? That would be amazing. I mean, yeah, he is... He should do it.

28:08absolutely unfiltered it'd be brilliant because he yeah he would he would ask any question at all times of anyone around that table that'd be incredible and then people would go yes but you're an actor so of course you're a traitor but you think I think it's the person that Claudia tapped on the shoulder of the traitors rather than the people doing it to RADA I could be wrong I absolutely could be wrong about that Lorraine Kelly I've put her also Carol Kirkwood sorry just from just from the morning ladies yes please I yeah Naga Naga Yeah. Yeah. That could go... Oh, I mean, that would go off. That would go all the way.

28:44She'd play like a civilian. If Saga thought you were a traitor, you would know about it. Oh, yeah. You'd know you'd been served. Patrick Kielty. Yeah, Paddy Kielty. He'd be good. Yeah, he'd be very good. Marion Keys. Oh, my God, she'd be epic. Again, people who maybe they probably know less, but Marion, any time you see her or anything or hear her or anything, she's so brilliant and perspicacious and really understands human nature. and those are the people so you've got to have those big names but you've got to have the Joe Marler type people you've got to have people there who if you've come across them in your life you just think oh man if the public saw more of you they would absolutely love you and people who would not be daunted by the game and people who would not be daunted by the other personalities around you know in the same way so Joe Marler is not daunted by Stephen Fry and Claire Balding and Jonathan Ross self esteem would not be daunted by any of those people it's you know those you know she wouldn't be daunted she might be daunted by sigara southgate you have to have a youtuber and on that i think they should have amelia de boulderberg if they can get her if we she'd be so brilliant that's a great idea she would not be daunted as we can see from every chicken shop date that's a great idea very very good three weeks ago i'd have said sarah ferguson but a red line has gone through that potential maybe it has because i was thinking prince harry because i mean what a way to rehabilitate yourself with the public you know because he's on that 50-50 life edge.

30:04It's a plot for a brilliant comedy drama that in order to win back the nation. He enters a reality TV form. Called The Traitors. But your family's got history with actual traitors. We'd decide to do it. He would genuinely be great because he would take it very, very seriously. Someone I saw the other day and I thought, oh my God, you'd be amazing on Celebrity Traitors is Miles Jupp. Oh yeah, he would be brilliant. Because I love Miles. He makes every room more fun. he makes every group a more fun group but you know stick a bit of pressure on him who knows what happens he laughs everything in which is amazing I'd love him I'd love Rob Brydon I think it would be great I just want Rob Brydon on all the television shows I want Agents of Chaos like Jerry Halliwell or Joss Stone maybe even a Dean from Girls Aloud it could go off because you want that and it might not they might just play an incredibly safe in terms of who they are going to book you need four or five absolute blue chips you just absolutely do you know you need the your Lorraine Kellys and your Sir Gareth Southgate's and people like that the Jennifer Saunders you need those people who are where people just go oh wow that's a that's amazing booking um you need three or four people who people don't know like we had Ruth and Nico and unfortunately a lot of them voted out this one but Kat is a perfect example someone who we didn't know before but you but you're like okay this is normally I do think they reflect the country that's something else I was thinking about they do reflect the country slightly and the American one is so you know Machiavellian and um survival of the fittest whereas ours I think there is so much deference to perceived class or intellectual it's so like us you know and also the old really just really stab the young yes sorry I mean sorry boomers and even lower than boomers they really got rid of the young ones because what I worked up with the books a long time ago is all old people are just young people who are older but you know it's just I know this isn't the message of the Thursday Murder Club.

31:55Well it sort of is. You know young people have never been old. All old people have been young so they have a slight advantage over you. You've got to have the people who the people don't particularly know but are sort of slightly wild cards for that very reason. Yeah exactly that and then and then you need your sort of nationally treasury type people, Miles Jupp, Gabby Logan. The person I would love only because I think the documentary is fascinating is Eddie Hearn. Yes either they watch it in which case they want to be on it or else you can't you can't imagine yourself saying to EG Alistair Campbell, well, the format of the show is Alistair, that this is how it happens.

32:26It's like, I know, I've never seen it, but I'm sure I'll be fine. In a way, that's why they're scared of Jonathan is because, well, as you say, he's very influential on the outside, whatever, but actually because they believe that he is the absolute completist and understands the game better than anyone else. And they keep saying now, oh, no one's sort of more versed in traitor's law than, or they don't put it that way, but you know what I mean? Nick Muhammad. Yeah, yes, I agree. But they think it's Jonathan. They think he is the super fan who knows all the answers. I think it's almost impossible to play the game better than Jonathan has played it.

32:56I agree. I was disparaging about aspects of it, but the fact that he's still here is a testament to how well he turned it around. Yeah. We're probably going to have to, we could literally talk for like four hours, right? I know. I really, I'm very sorry that we have to start. I know. I'm very sorry we have to wait till next Wednesday to find out. I literally, it's infuriating we have to wait. But you know, it's like the old days of telly. Yeah. Oh, Giles Brandreth. Oh, yes. Okay, fair enough. Giles would be a lot of fun. You've got to get him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't always interrupt my outros with the name Giles Brandwith, but I have today.

33:27Thank you so much for listening, everybody. Whether you're listening straight afterwards, in which case we're still reeling, or whether you're listening tomorrow morning, we'll do it all again next week, shall we? We will do. And also, if you want to listen to our regular episodes, there'll be one on Tuesday. There will be one on Tuesday. See you next Tuesday, everybody. See you next Tuesday, everyone.

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