Dubai Influencers vs Iran

7:56Richard Osman:It was the beginning of last year, beginning of 2025, they launched this thing, Creators HQ. And the idea was to get 10 ,000 influencers into Dubai. Can you imagine? They wanted 10 ,000 influencers in Dubai. What are we short of? Influencers. And when we say influencers, obviously that we mean everyone means different things but they're talking about content creators essentially and so you can apply if you live in any country in the world you can apply to move to Dubai under this scheme and under this scheme they give you a number of different things they give you a visa they give you um like a physical creators HQ hub which has um you know podcast studios, offices, all those things.

8:41Richard Osman:They will give you business and legal support. They will essentially set you up as a business.

8:47Marina Hyde:There's a whole strata of people who deal with this. Yes, exactly. Agents, producers, people who get you follow accounts. It's like a whole professional strata in Dubai.

8:56Richard Osman:So you can apply. When you see all of these people who are saying, yeah, you know what? Fed up with Britain. Britain is, you know, there's no room for entrepreneurs in Britain. I'm going to move to Dubai where you can get things easier. this is what they're talking about. They're talking about the fact that someone is saying, oh no, we will sort everything out for you. Come over here for free and we're going to give you these offices. We're going to give you these podcast studios. You are going to live tax-free. We're going to set up a company that you wholly own. The government's not going to keep any of yours.

9:22Richard Osman:So they are literally being incentivised, massively incentivised.

9:26Marina Hyde:They're a 0 % personal income tax, is that correct?

9:28Richard Osman:0 % personal income tax and a very, very low corporation tax as well. So they're paying very, very, very little tax. What they are essentially saying, a lot of these influences that go over there, particularly the ones you talk about in a political way, they're saying, oh, no, you know, this is the place where capitalism reigns. You go, no, this is the place where socialism reigns because you're going over there because someone is funding you. Someone is taking money and giving you that money and subsidizing you to do the thing that you do. It's socialism. That's okay. Just admit it. Just say, I'm going over there because I'm getting a handout.

10:00Richard Osman:I'm going over there. I'm going to a foreign country and taking a handout.

10:03Marina Hyde:companies in the US with all their handouts their tax handouts the biggest welfare queens in the world it's exactly right to put it like that

10:10Richard Osman:listen the place anyone who tells you socialism doesn't work take a look at the very very top level of influencers and tech bosses it is working absolutely beautifully for them because they live in a socialist utopia and essentially that's what Dubai is but in another way Richard they are the sort of

10:26Marina Hyde:basic sad little stormtroopers of late stage capitalism and it's going to split them out they're sales drones and they're selling with their advertainment. Advertainment? Is that a thing? It is now. They're selling hotels, yachts, luxury, lifestyle, medical procedures. You can sell them a lot easier over there than you can in more regulated economies. Essentially, influencing is the chief means by which things are sold there. They've majored on this. extraordinarily the city itself has become constructed in a sort of instagram friendly way um instagram has a headquarters there no surprise um and there's obviously a sort of dark side to this because you you can be detained for making defamatory comments um you do sometimes have to do state work although it is they it's never discussed people don't say whether they've been paid or whether it's just you know you're on the team now you take one for it um and it's just the cost of doing business and they never rock the boat so here's so creators hq here's the eligibility

11:30Richard Osman:for it okay and i would say it's a relatively low bar if you're involved in the world of content at all so you have to have a proven content career okay i've been through every single bit of this with your so you've you've got a proven content career i think it's fair to say yeah you know So those columns that you're writing about David Mellor, that's a content career. That was the beginning of it. And it's a career of sorts. Proven content career. Evidence of income from digital activities. Now, I assume that, well, I mean, this is digital. The Guardian is digital. So you will have some evidence of income from digital activities.

12:08Richard Osman:That's what you need. Strong engagement or measurable impact. So do you have strong engagement or measurable impact? I would have said when I ticked the box for you because of the nonsense you were talking about your bookshelves and how you organise your bookshelves. And I think that that had strong engagement because so many people disagreed with you. And I think it had measurable impact because everyone just went, do you know what? I'm actually fine with the way I do my bookshelves.

12:32Marina Hyde:I'm moving to Dubai to get away from this rubbish. Carry on.

12:35Richard Osman:Press coverage, awards, brand collabs. Awards, you're always winning like columnist of the year or something, aren't you?

12:43Marina Hyde:I have got quite a few of them.

12:46Richard Osman:Have you? Okay, that's good. Brand Collabs, less so, but that's, listen, that's okay. But awards, I think, are big for them. And the final one, Clean Legal Record. I ticked yes for that.

12:56Marina Hyde:I think I have one, yeah. Was I right to? Yes, I have a Clean Legal Record.

13:01Richard Osman:So that is all you need. If you can demonstrate that, and also if you can demonstrate, it's not necessarily just to follow a count, you can demonstrate your influence.

13:09Marina Hyde:Well, I think we've established it's not like trying to get into the Jedi Knights, right? I think, you know, it is a low-ball.

13:14Richard Osman:It's barely hard on getting to the Baron Knights. Wow, that's a hell of a reference. That's one from the past. Isn't it, Jess? So if you have all of those things and you want to go over there, I'd say they will give you visa assistance, company setup, legal support, collab opportunities. So I know you don't have a lot of brand collabs, but the good news for you is if you go to Dubai, you will get loads of collab opportunities.

13:34Marina Hyde:What about the adverts in this podcast?

13:36Richard Osman:Oh, that's true. That's a collab. We collab with Octopus Energy.

13:39Marina Hyde:Yes. Correct, Mundo.

13:42Richard Osman:so again that's another tick that it didn't tick you've got brand co-dans they will also then when you go out there they will give you workshops and mentoring and training in the following areas and it's interesting the order they put this in firstly branding helpful production Joey does all that for us monetisation they'll do a workshop in that engagement and finally storytelling which is the last of the things to do

14:08Marina Hyde:this is like a psychological penal colony for Colony, I can't do it.

14:11Richard Osman:They will do all of those things for you. Also, one of the key things is if you get above another eligibility requirement, which we'll go into, you can get a golden visa. Now, a golden visa, like anything which has gold in the title, is cool. It is. But it's true. Otherwise, why would they call it that? Why don't you think it through a tiny bit? Keep goading me.

14:31Marina Hyde:I will move to do I.

14:33Richard Osman:It feels to me like someone don't know so much about branding. It's a golden visa. You get 10 years residency in Dubai, which is renewable as well. What's the second prize?

14:43Marina Hyde:20 years.

14:45Richard Osman:You get 10 years residency in Dubai and for relatives as well. And as you say, it's absolutely tax-free, all that kind of stuff. And for that, you do need, again, it's all of those editabilities, but at a slightly higher bar. So I put everything through for you. And it says, this is the things they are looking for. This is the reason why they would give you a golden visa they're looking for. established creators with international audiences. Now, we have a lot of listeners in Australia. Hello, Australia. So I think that absolutely counts. And our friends in America. They are looking for, genuinely, they've carved this out, they're looking for podcasters with measurable cultural impact.

15:30Richard Osman:They are looking for podcasters with measurable cultural impact. and that's what I'm looking at right now. Well, as I say, the weekend has maybe changed some of this stuff. You would be eligible immediately, absolutely free, you don't have to pay a single thing for a 10 years residency. But that's why a lot of these people are moving to Dubai. That's what I'm saying. They're not moving to Dubai because they are entrepreneurs who are going, oh, finally, there's a place here where I can move quickly. And they are moving there because someone is incentivizing them with dollars from the government to do that.

16:06Marina Hyde:Dubai influencer content comes with such a distinct set of tropes that are actually very narrow. But it's the sort of skyline flex, like themselves in front of this amazing and very recognisable skyline. Supercars, helicopters, private jets. They all rent them, by the way, and they rent time in them. Half these things never take off. They just have pictures of them sitting in them. That's one of the things I object to so much. It's like influencing is so uncool. It's like all of this stuff is just so sort of basic. The entire sort of possibility and, you know, creativity of human experience sort of distilled down to about 10 template images that are involved, like white fluffy bathrobes, champagne flutes, a private jet seat.

16:48Marina Hyde:I mean, come on. This is so dull. Like I said, you are a little late capitalist stormtrooper that's going to get spat out by the system. Anyhow, sorry. Oh, beach clubs. That's another big thing that, you know, the Palm Jumeirah. Well, that was hit by a missile on Saturday. Hotels, shopping malls, the haul you get from it all. And that whole poolside entrepreneur lifestyle. You know, here I am in this amazing place. I'm on my laptop. You know, I manifested this. I this is my business. But the kind of underlying thing of all of these things are, as I said before, it's luxury and it's safety. and a huge amount of them spend a lot of time saying, I've moved here because, you know, I hate London.

17:27Marina Hyde:London's a mess or wherever I lived before is a mess. There's crime. You know, this is incredibly safe. And obviously something absolutely extraordinary has happened.

17:40Richard Osman:By the way, that we hope everyone is deeply safe. All of that stuff. But it shines a light on this gilded world that's been sold back to people. But it's a loath profession. It's a profession.

17:52Marina Hyde:It's honestly, it's like a state agency or traffic wardens or journalists. They're like, they're down there. It's a hated profession. People feel like, I suppose essentially it is built on boasting, saying, look what I've got, look what I'm doing. And Dubai content in particular is very smug.

18:12Richard Osman:But as you say, stuff that you actually don't have.

18:14Marina Hyde:Yes. And Dubai content, I think in particular, is very like, you know, the grass is greener. So in some ways, but if you look at the level of schadenfreude online as soon as the event started unfolding on Saturday, those compelling stories we talked once before about that amazing no going back. God, I mean, that's 20 years ago. I must have seen that maybe more. That extraordinary documentary about, was it on Channel 4, people who start new lives? Oh, yes. Do you remember? And there was one who went to a sort of desert island and it was going to be perfect. And let's just say it really isn't. Yeah.

18:50Marina Hyde:And I suppose this feeling of most people who are in this country who are in a cost of living crisis, who are struggling in all sorts of different ways, there is some sort of sense that it's being rammed down your throat, this perfect lifestyle. And this is why, in lots of ways, people hate influencers. They want to sort of be them at some level that they don't talk about. But as I say, they're down there with state agents and journalists. a huge amount of following influences has become about, we talked about this when we talked about Tatalice, of right-shared or embittered detective work, as the same to some degree with the Beckhams.

19:27Marina Hyde:Like, what you're saying is the situation isn't the situation. This isn't what you're selling it as. Now we've just seen that on a geopolitical level. Like, the thing that Dubai has used all of this army of people to say about itself is, in fact, suddenly not the case. It is not a place currently of safety. And, you know, who knows what will have unfolded even by the time this podcast goes out. But something very, very significant happened. And, you know, it's a new kind of Middle East. There is no oil. This is a new kind of Middle East Dubai.

20:03Richard Osman:Influences are the oil here. And the same with, you know, Saudi Arabia. We've talked a lot before. You know, everyone's tourist money is incredibly important. Hollywood money is important. Cultural money is important. The interesting thing, and this is the understanding that Dubai certainly has, and I think Saudi Arabia certainly has, that the creator economy is the fastest growing part of the new entertainment economy. In a way that because of our history and entertainment, we haven't quite got on board with. We still slightly think of the creator economy as something slightly other. And they understand actually that is where all the money in entertainment is going to be in the next 10, 15, 20 years.

20:39Richard Osman:So that's why they're throwing all this money at these creators.

20:42Marina Hyde:I've concentrated so much of it on this that it and it's until now, there's been no question that it wasn't just going to keep going on at the same level. But now you see how precarious all these things. And actually, that's mirrored by influencing not just in Dubai, influencing anywhere. People who understand tech and understand the algorithms will always say to you, it seems like it's a great thing. But actually, if the rug goes under you for one reason or another, say, I don't know, you're found to have done something wrong or people decide to cancel you in the way they can in that world, then suddenly you have absolutely nothing and you're really, really stuck.

21:18Richard Osman:But if you're, to counterpoint to that, if you're an individual influencer, that's definitely the case. It's incredibly precarious, as it has, you know, if you're a pop star or a TV presenter or anything like that. But if you are a big media organization, and that's what the Dubai government is acting as here, they don't mind a few influencers being disgraced because they're constantly being replaced. You know, there's always new ones.

21:43Marina Hyde:No, but what's happened here is the entire shtick has had the rug pulled underneath it. Because what you're saying is this is a place of great luxury and great safety, and suddenly it's not. and I think it's very difficult with that many people who are out there creating content yeah I'm sure listen not depressingly I'm sure they will write it I think depressingly this is content at the moment for those influencers but it's you know it I if I were there and you can see that their management has been in touch with them and said be very very careful what you post do not make it but the inadequacy of the pivot like Louise Zisman who is an apprentice runner-up who's got a very successful podcast, which she does from Dubai.

22:21Marina Hyde:And now I saw her saying, you know, doing a post saying home-baked bread rolls, you know, keeping the kids entertained and indoors. And I just thought, yeah, this isn't really like lockdown. I just think it's bread rolls are not going to cut it here. And that, you know, getting your content right, there's already a backlash now over the last two days for people saying, even this situation you're making all about you. And because people have this kind of bedrock idea that influencers are self-absorbed and unserious, and maybe they are, not in their real lives perhaps, but certainly in the way they present themselves and the way they make this kind of advertisement content.

23:02Marina Hyde:And there's such a big backlash. You can see certain people just didn't write, people who are used to posting things 20 times a day didn't because someone had said to maybe Kate Ferdinand, And Ria Fernand's wife, be really sure when you put down what you're going to put, that it does not like completely center you or doesn't. And I think it's very difficult when you now have got a city, as I say, where there's 50 ,000 influencers. Every single thing, what you do now, one of the two fundamental tenets on which all of their content has been based, which is this is paradise and it's safe, has been very significantly undermined, not necessarily forever undermined, at all.

23:44But what now?

23:46Marina Hyde:I mean, all the comments beneath, all the things that you're trying to sell, people will have a number of views about quite how realistic what you're saying is.

23:56Richard Osman:And to reiterate, we hope that everyone across the Middle East stays completely safe. But this is an area we wanted to talk about.

24:05Marina Hyde:No one's expecting people to become war correspondents overnight? Of course not. But it's very difficult to see how that many people, that big, you know, professional class, as it were, has to sort of pivot completely and to see what they'll do. They may be able to write themselves pretty easily. But I think that something quite seismic has occurred and something very, very significant has been undermined.

24:32Richard Osman:Yeah. And I hope it's interesting to hear about this idea of Creators HQ, which is a very, very real thing which is really really targeting implements and every single time you see somebody say i'm leaving this country i'm going to dubai because you know i have opportunities there what they're saying is the government of dubai and everything that stands for and everything that happens in their name are funding me to go and do this so i'm leaving i'm a civil servant i'm leaving yeah but you are i'm leaving a liberal democracy because of the difficulties and challenges that are involved in a liberal democracy to go somewhere where I'm being a paid shill which you can be a patient if you want we all pay shills for things things that we believe in that's absolutely fine but that's what they are and I'm being funded someone is paying for me to do that in a way that speaks of nothing but socialism that's exactly what's happening there they are they are going from a non-socialist society into a socialist society and someone is paying them for the soft power that they bring which brings me to finally the creators hq i ticked every single box that i thought applied to you and they say that you are definitively qualified for both creators hq and for the golden visa in a category called distinguished talent in media and digital content so you could go out there tomorrow

25:52Marina Hyde:listen anyone can go out there tomorrow if you can get a flight which you can't currently Right. After the break, we are going to be talking about another seismic shift, this time in the Paramount attempts to buy Warners, which have been successful and Netflix is out. And we're also going to be talking about the Brits, which happened on Saturday night and was perhaps...

26:13Richard Osman:Actually good.

26:15Marina Hyde:Guys, breaking news. We are going to be interviewing Tim Davey, the outgoing Director General of the BBC. so please send us your questions to therestisentertainment at goalhanger.com put Tim Davey in the subject line so we don't miss it there's always many things we can discuss on the matter of the BBC and that will go out next week

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28:12Richard Osman:Welcome back, everybody. Now we're going to talk about Warner and Paramount and Netflix. but I promised some career news which is I am leaving House of Games it will no longer be Richard Osmond's House of Games it will be somebody else's House of Games and I gladly hand over the keys and I just wanted to go on record as saying how much I love it and loved it and I've done 800 episodes

28:35Marina Hyde:I was going to say, and how many seasons?

28:38Richard Osman:Oh, seasons I don't know, we don't really I just turn up and film them 800 episodes, my God Yeah, it's a lot of episodes and I've loved it and of course I met my wife through it as well. And just with the writing, there comes a point where you have to hand it over. The BBC have very, very, which I'm very glad about, have said they will continue it. So that incredible team I get to work with are still going to be making it with a different host, but not with me anymore. I will do one final week. I'll do one final week where I hand over to the new host, which will be a lot of fun. But oh my God, I've loved it.

29:15Richard Osman:I've loved doing it so much. And I'll be gutted when I don't do it anymore. But, you know, I had to, in the same way with Pointless. But, you know, we filmed 110 episodes last year, which are still going out now. And those will be my last ones apart from one final day.

29:31Marina Hyde:Well, I wonder how many hundreds of those episodes have been watched in my house. And I will say thank you. You have brought such joy to everyone in my family. So thank you. and oh onwards.

29:44Richard Osman:Looking forward to Sue Pollard's House of Games. That out of the way let's talk about more minor showbiz news. The acquisition of Warner Brothers by Paramount Skydance. Well you've thrown that

29:55Marina Hyde:into the shade now haven't you?

29:56Richard Osman:Haven't I just? Talk us through what has happened there.

29:59Marina Hyde:Right yes. Now the last time we covered this and in fact until just the end of last week Netflix were kind of locked on as you could be at this stage to acquire Warner Brothers one of the huge studios But at the last minute, Paramount, Paramount Skydance. Remember, Skydance was a small film studio which recently acquired Paramount and now almost immediately wants to acquire Warner's. They raised their offer to$31 a share. Netflix were given four days to respond to a counter. And co-CEOs Ted Sarandas and Greg Peters said, after one day, no, you're all right. We're walking away. It's not right for us at this price.

30:39Richard Osman:Netflix said essentially that Warner Brothers would be a nice thing to have at the right price. It is not a must have at any price. A nice to have. Which it is for Paramount Skydark.

30:50Marina Hyde:Which it is for, yeah, anyhow.

30:51Richard Osman:Who are hugely overpaid.

30:53Marina Hyde:Well, they're buying it for$111 billion. And it looks like, you know, they will get it. Remember, Larry Ellison is like, you know, he's always bumping along in the top four. I think he's currently the fourth richest man in the world. But sometimes he's the second. It just moves around a little bit. Larry Ellison, he's now said he will backstop the deal, but it's his son, always referred to on this podcast as Kendall Ellison, but actually called David, apparently. David who wants this, but they're close to the Trumps, and it's thought that, you know, people think for that reason it will get through whatever regulatory things that Netflix would have found quite difficult.

31:24Marina Hyde:Now, despite the initial shock back when we first covered this one, Netflix was sort of sweeping in for it. I came to think, and lots of other people came to think, and I'm sure you probably did, that actually Netflix was the better deal for Hollywood. for them to have won this would have been better for the town, for the people who work at Warner's, for all of those things.

31:42Richard Osman:And mainly because Netflix and Warner Brothers do quite separate things. So the synergies of those two companies come together. You will talk about the savings that Paramount Skydance are going to make. With Netflix and Warner Brothers, actually, they would have multiplied each other a little bit more. And these two big companies, I think, divide each other a little bit more. So there'll be an awful lot less jobs, I think.

32:02Marina Hyde:And right up until last week when Ted Sarandos was still pushing this deal, he was saying repeatedly, as many times as possible on record, he was really committing to cinema release. Remember what they call it windows, the time that a film is in the theatres before it comes to other forms of release and when it eventually ends up on streaming. Now, Netflix sometimes will have something in theatres for a week and then it'll be on streaming. There are several windows between something going to streaming where you can pay for it, where you can do all sorts of different things. And creators really, really wanted it preserved.

32:34Marina Hyde:Now, Ted Saron just went on the record and said, no, no, no, we're definitely going to stick to it. Okay, so he hasn't got it now and he can go back to slagging off cinemas.

32:42Richard Osman:Yes. Genuinely, Netflix seem thrilled to have lost out.

32:48Marina Hyde:Oh my God, this is one of the great losses ever and we'll get to that.

32:50Richard Osman:They got to the point where there was so much political pressure, which they weren't interested in. And they've never had it really.

32:55Marina Hyde:They've never had political pressure. Exactly. They don't have news. They don't have all sorts of things that bring political pressure.

33:01Richard Osman:They were being told to fire Susan Rice from their board, all sorts of things that they are not used to having. The price was going up and up and up into a point where they thought this doesn't make any commercial sense for us.

33:11Marina Hyde:And their shareholders hated it, Richard. The shareholders hated it.

33:13Richard Osman:And the second that they pulled out, and they pulled out immediately, they were like, oh, no, you can have that. The second they pulled out, their shares went up 10%.

33:22Marina Hyde:Yeah, by the end, I think, yeah, their shares are on a tear now. It's great. Okay, so what's this going to mean for all the little different bits of this? and for us as people who even over here consume a huge amount of the things they make okay so for movies david ellison has said the combined warner paramount entity will release 30 films a year to which i can only say lol okay i that is i absolutely will lay it down here i don't think that's going to happen it'd be lovely if it did i don't think it's going to happen if it does happen

33:53Richard Osman:by the way there will be like 12 movies that you think what's that weird tiny movie that got

33:58Marina Hyde:released for like one day what's that ai film made with oracle ai i remember they the ellison's run oracle in general everything we've ever seen in the history of all of this is that studio mergers lead to fewer and not more titles it happened when disney acquired fox so what they now have they have two lots two studio complexes i mean the paramount lot is one of the most beautiful buildings in los angeles and i you know my thoughts you know that doesn't mean much but actually, this is genuinely a beautiful building, a series of buildings. The Warner lot, which is also very historic, they will, I think our producer Jerry was just saying to me, they'll have like 88 sound stages.

34:35Marina Hyde:Paramount is saying that they will make six billion of savings. And when they're talking about savings, let's be very honest with what they're talking about. They're talking about thousands of people losing their jobs. Ted Sarandos has been saying, okay, with that level of, remember, this is leveraged. This is a leveraged buy. They have a huge amount of huge amount of debt. There's no way that six billion will be enough. Netflix estimate that Paramount are going to have to make 16 billion, 16 billion of savings. I mean, there's so many different bits of this empire. So there's, what happens with talent?

35:04Marina Hyde:Are talent going to be sort of sniffing, going to think, you know, the Ellisons are clearly, you know, Lindsey Graham, the sort of ancient and awful Republican senator was snapped with David Ellison, who was his guest at the State of the Union last week. Everyone knows that the Ellisons are very close to Trump. will lots of talent think we would read it again this can only be to Netflix's benefit

35:24Richard Osman:or why would I not go to Netflix

35:25Marina Hyde:why would I not go to Netflix in another way I would say though talent is not in a position to be sniffy Hollywood is in a lot of trouble and you know if at the start Kendall Ellison does make 30 films a year

35:36Richard Osman:he's going to need people to be in them

35:38Marina Hyde:sports wise this is looking pretty good because they now have all the football their football UFC golf they have you know the college basketball tournament, March Madness, that is mega. It's like a huge cultural moment. So they have all of that. I think in some ways what's very interesting is the TV networks. There is a whole sort of hot take industry that, in fact, this has only ever been about news, which is too hot to take for me, but that CBS, which is currently going through a whole kind of a load of convulsions, which has been put under the control of Bari White, who is a sort of conservative, friendly kind of person who's never run a network but is now running this.

36:19Marina Hyde:What happens to CNN? Do they all have to report into Bariwise?

36:22Richard Osman:So the basic principle here is that CNN, which is one of the big news networks over there, is now under direct control of people who are very, very close to Trump.

36:32Marina Hyde:Well, media power in general is shifting towards being Trump-friendly across everything. What he does require people to be Trump, you can't say, oh, you know, they're tacit supporters of. Trump always wants you to be overtly political. and to bend the knee. So lots of things are shifting and other people will say, oh, well, it was a long time the other way. So that's fine. In terms of the nature of the deal, I'm sure Warner's shareholders love being told that shares are worth$31 because they were bumbling along at like$11 for a long time back there. So I'm sure they love that. But as we say, they have a vast amount of debt something like 50 57 billion of this deal is debt some most of it

37:18Richard Osman:junk rated and then you add into the debt that was already on warner's books there there are there are estimates you're somewhere around 90 billion of debt here and that's all very well by the way if you're bankrolled by larry edison because he runs oracle um and oracle is riding like on the unbelievable AI boom. I mean, it's the value of that company is so enormous. They went back and back and back with more and more and more money because money was meaningless to them at the moment because they are so awash with it because of AI. So AI, as you say, yeah, we can make movies with AI. But if AI turns out to be a bubble, and it's going to turn out to be some sort of bubble at some point for sure, then suddenly that$90 billion of debt is going to be very very very difficult to service and if that becomes very difficult to service then you have a huge behemoth right in the heart of hollywood right in the heart of creating content for television film and everything which will be almost crippled that feels like they get some more of what is part of this deal which is saudi money yeah it doesn't look amazing in lots of

38:24Marina Hyde:different ways um and in terms of like who's running this i mean who is david ellison he was running something called Skydance honestly about 15 minutes ago I always think people in the film business will tell you that if you ever see a producer on the red carpet with the stars of the of the film that guy is a real asshole if you look at Top Gun Maverick which is by far the biggest thing Skydance ever produced who is there Tom Cruise and all of them on the red carpet is of course David Ellison uh you know he's trying to create this enormous media company at incredible

38:59Richard Osman:speed and and doing it by the way purely through spending his dad's money yeah i mean it's not like oh my god he's really transformed that you know his dad is backstopping this yeah exactly that

39:10Marina Hyde:that's which is the difference i mean i suppose we have to believe it but ultimately means awfully huge layoffs but netflix has emerged amazing amazingly the winner that you know clearly we know their investors didn't like the deal but when you when you do a deal something it's big or you come close to doing a deal this big, you get to look completely over the entity you wish to acquire as books. So they know every single thing about how they're not the same. Remember, Netflix are not the same as these old Hollywood legacy studio companies. They're doing something totally different. And of course, they've hired lots of people from those companies.

39:47Marina Hyde:So it's not like they have no institutional knowledge of how these companies work, but they've now seen exactly every single thing.

39:53Richard Osman:Ad sale rates at different parts of the year at different times. I mean literally When now Netflix are doing that front

39:59Marina Hyde:Because they have an ad tier It's all very different So they've had a chance To look at exactly how it all works And they've managed to get away from it

40:07Richard Osman:And they're also getting A$2.8 billion cancellation fee

40:10Marina Hyde:I think it might be$2.9 billion It's something ridiculous And Washington is not up In their business any longer Which was becoming very difficult I mean they're a bit more Sort of on the radar now Because people have had to think about them Which they never had to before They were just a sort of TV company.

40:27Richard Osman:And also one of their big competitors has been forced to massively overpay for something because they've had to consistently top Netflix's deal. So it sort of couldn't be a better loss. I mean, it might be one of the all-time great losses in corporate history, this one. Everything about it has turned Netflix's way.

40:48Marina Hyde:We should say that just in general, they just – And I understand why they have to happen in a very, very difficult climate for the whole business. But almost always these big mergers don't work. I was talking to someone who works at a senior level on the creative side and said, I've done so many reorientation days where it's like, hi, welcome to your new corporate overlords. I've done like three in the last decade and I've got to now do another. These things don't tend to work. Maybe they'll prove us all wrong and make 30 great AI films a year. Or maybe the turmoil is not at all over. And it certainly isn't over in terms of job losses.

41:28Marina Hyde:I mean, so many thousands of people are going to lose their jobs.

41:30Richard Osman:There was a separate thing recently, Jack Dorsey, who set up Twitter originally. And was seen as, you know, now when we look at where Twitter is, we sort of see him as, you know, some sort of great hope. But he has a...

41:43Marina Hyde:He's a George W. Bush. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

41:45Richard Osman:He has a company called Block, which is a payments company. And he has just laid off 40 % of the staff of that company, laid off 4 ,000 people. And he has not laid them off because Block is doing badly. Block is doing very, very well. He laid them off because AI is now doing the work of most of his employees. And he says, this is a direct quote from Jack Dorsey, within the next year, I believe the majority of companies will reach the same conclusion and make similar structural changes, by which he means that they will lose...

42:18Marina Hyde:We'll all essentially be Dubai influencers.

42:20Richard Osman:40 % of their workforce. And, you know, there's over 50 ,000 employees within this merger. You lose 40 % of that. It's a lot of people. And it feels, again, like we were talking in the Dubai thing, it feels like there's such an unfairness to it, which is a group of people playing by different rules because they're being funded by something that's not based on anything real. It's ever been thus, but I do think Netflix would have been a better home for Warner Brothers. Listen, let's take them at their word. If they do massively ramp up movie production, that will be very, very good news. And it's doable, and perhaps they will do it.

43:00Marina Hyde:But they can only do it if they use Oracle AI on it. They can't possibly put out 30 movies a year. they just can't and it's not going to happen and if it does a significant part of those films will

43:13Richard Osman:be made by by ai there's only one jason statham that's what i'm saying that's what i'm always

43:18Marina Hyde:saying it's essentially the point i'm making in every single item we ever do on this what would latin for there's only one jason statham be i've got to try and work it out should we end with some

43:26Richard Osman:good news which was the brits this weekend it's moved up to manchester at the co-op arena which if you remember when that opened up was the you know like was derided because they were you know kept being shut down and there were all sorts of issues and now has turned into like an unbelievable venue um with insane acoustics you know after um you know the baftas and what have you to have this ceremony because the brits does feel like you know all awards ceremonies feel like you know they're less significant than they were but it felt like a room full of people working in an industry that's that's absolutely firing on all cylinders amazing performances amazing winners amazing energy a host who's actually a comedian so can do jokes and i just thought it was worth noting that it feels like sort of a a good new story there's bad new stories within the music industry for sure the decline of live music the decline of live venues and things like that wolf alice who won best band spoke about that but it felt like in terms of creativity and in terms of you know an industry that you know doesn't always um show its best side it felt like a really celebratory

44:29Marina Hyde:evening absolutely it did and there were there was so much sort of great great stuff there i will say in terms of sort of tv which is the medium one by which most people will have seen this ceremony the ratings are down i agree that the story it's celebrating is very very successful the ratings are down it's like the 10th most watched program on saturday night it's behind michael mcintosh big show got talent weakest link gladiators the news obviously always so yes i think that it's interesting the industry it's celebrating is doing very well the British side of it but the but award ceremonies in general are they're becoming very difficult and we will end up talking about this but particularly after what happened at the the BAFTAs the week before but I noticed that so much conversation around the Brits was online was about censorship and And they were saying, you know, people have been censored for saying free Palestine or, you know, making comments about ICE.

45:30Marina Hyde:In fact, even some very, very anodyne joke Jack Whitehall made about Peter Mandelson was censored. Some of these things, by the way, are cut for length and people don't realize that. The show overruns. They have a slot. Certain things have to go. And maybe they just took the view that like lots of politics jokes, we don't need millions of them because that's not really what this place is about.

45:48Richard Osman:Yeah, that joke was just, there was a table of politicians, Andy Burnham and Lisa Nandy, and he'd done a joke about Andy Burnham saying this is the only party you get invited to these days. And then he said, oh, who else is on the table? I'm sure I saw Peter Mandelson on the list. Oh, that was a different list.

46:02Marina Hyde:Yeah.

46:03Richard Osman:Perfectly serviceable.

46:04Marina Hyde:Gag. But I mean, I'd cuss it because it's not, there was better stuff. Sean Ryder had to have an entire anecdote, believed. Of course he did. Sean Ryder had an anecdote about being busted for drugs possession at the Brits in 1990. And it was just like the whole thing just had to go. So there's a lot of complaint about censorship. I have to say that artists often used to, in decades gone by, often used to use award ceremonies to make political points and things like that. We know they did. But all of the censorship stories in the last year have come from sort of creative events. if it's kneecap and Bob Villan at Glastonbury, John Davidson at BAFTAs, we're going to get to that.

46:46Marina Hyde:It's become such a sort of cultural minefield. In the past, when these stands were taken or people said these things, they didn't happen in the sort of frenzied world of social media, which, and it's not the fault of the broadcasters, is a big part in our lives of why we can't have nice things. Social media just means you can't have those moments. You know, and you could, of course there've been, and award ceremonies are, I mean, they're so dull that they're a really good time to take a stand because everyone's excited. But if you do anything off the script, people always have done, be it film or music or any sort of awards.

47:19Marina Hyde:But now doing it in a world where the social media reaction is instant and it becomes a huge thing. We have to understand that broadcasters operate under codes. And in America, they cut lots of things in the Grammys because you're not allowed to swear. So you can probably mention ICE, but you can't say F ICE because then you're swearing. We have different broadcast laws. We have the things that can be said at the Brits after 9pm are different to the things that can be said before 9pm. But there is a sort of general misunderstanding, just a lack of understanding, which you'd think when we've had this long in social media about media law.

47:56Marina Hyde:Funny enough, the Times did an article, had to do an article last week saying, this is the reason we don't allow comments under most of our Andrew Mountbatten Windsor content. And this is the reason. And I'm not joking. As you know, I'm obsessed with newspaper comments. I read all of them. It was people just saying underneath, why don't you just say this has nothing to do with you? It's just what commenters are saying. hi this is sort of our job we have most of us have been through libel actions or things that were threatened as libel actions and we understand the law better than you we have to protect ourselves because it will not be you paying when somebody takes legal action and the sort of general

48:34Richard Osman:failure to understand it all i mean if i was running um one of the big media organizations i would cut out pretty much everything these days i mean because everything you know what because the next day all I have to deal with is someone can be it'll be someone saying so you know I would I would just you know I'm not even going to show it cut out everything well bear in mind that

48:53Marina Hyde:everything they had to cut on on Saturday from the Brits they have had a week of playing out in the aftermath of what happened at the BAFTAs to remind everybody when Michael B. Jordan and Darryl Lindo um who behind Sinners were on the stage John Davison who has Tourette's involuntarily ticked, said the N-word. It was not cut from the broadcast despite there being a long delay. We have to talk about this. I have to say, I think it was absolutely awful, horrendous that those two guys should have to stand there and that they heard it. I think it is horrendous that to some degree, John Davidson was put in that situation.

49:32Marina Hyde:Reportedly, we don't know, but reportedly he said, I am concerned that I'm near an audience microphone. I'm concerned that they put an audience microphone there this is i have to say the bbc say they want a quick investigation it shouldn't take too long because this is a mega mega mistake it's really really bad everyone knew it had happened in the room that's what's so odd it's not like oh i didn't they said they didn't

49:56Richard Osman:hear it in the editing truck but the thing is you don't need to hear it in the editing truck and in editing trucks often you don't hear it because there you you've got lots of different mics all going at the same time where you definitely hear it is in the room yeah and what you have in the room are floor managers stage managers members of the crew members of production i mean they are there and they are in direct contact with the truck as well there is absolutely i mean by the way the bbc did not put it out deliberately so we get that you know sometimes when when you see things and people go oh they're happy putting that out no it's a mistake nobody's it's a catastrophic nobody on any side of this discussion is happy everybody is unhappy with everything that happened there was a huge mistake that happened in the middle which is there's a there's a lack of communication you know i had messages from people who are at the thing saying oh my god this is just happened and it's you know so everyone heard it everyone knew it and it did not get through from the floor to the truck it did not get through from the truck to when it's um delivered for broadcast as well and it took another 24 hours for that to get through listen i'm absolutely certainly they can find out what the issue was and they can find it out quickly it is definitively no one has done this on purpose but it is you know in the in the climate we live in and as you say you know with social media and and what happened at Glastonbury it's it's it's sort of extraordinary that it wasn't picked up and it has caused such upset for everyone on every side of this argument that it's you sort of feel come on I'll be honest with you there was a point last week where

51:29Marina Hyde:I thought perhaps awful as this is this will lead to something better and it will and I think lots of people did and there will be more awareness there'll be more understanding of Tourette's the understanding of that in this situation why it's particularly unique that it's a neurological thing that someone can't help I don't know if you've seen Saturday Night Live did a sketch on I think they maybe cast it from the broadcast but they put it out deliberately on their social media in which some of who they've identified or decided are the worst people in entertainment, Mel Gibson, Armie Hammer, Bill Cosby, they turn up and they blame all their various scandals on the fact that they just have Tourette's.

52:10Marina Hyde:They can't help them say any of these things. Okay. I can't. Okay. SNL, you want a good target? Like the BBC is right there. Okay. Really self-important awards organizers are right there. If you want to be brave, you could do two very low level operatives in a truck having to have a very high level debate about competing rights against the clock post a decade where identity politics was given primacy over everything. I mean, that might have been something to do. Instead, you've punched down. I mean, sorry, I already knew that SNL were basic and depressing and not funny and that 90 % of their sketches go on too long, two minutes too long because they can't work out how to get out of them or maybe it's just self-indulgence.

52:55Marina Hyde:But you know what? Now I also know that they do disabled jokes. Okay. Tell your friends SNL punch down at people with disabilities. They had many other targets they could have chosen. Of course they should have made something about, you know, you're not going to not do address this unless you're particularly wet. But the idea that you've made Tourette sound like something that, that people just say they make up to get out of bad things they've done, is to me mind-blowing. And no, I no longer think something good can come out of something awful that happened the weekend before.

53:27Richard Osman:I think it's indicative of the fact that in the UK, Tourette's awareness has quite a long history and a lot of work has been done. So much by John Davison. So much by John Davison. And there is more of an understanding in the UK about what Tourette's is And people do understand that if you have a tick, you're not saying your deepest, darkest desire. You're saying the opposite, which is you're saying the worst thing you could possibly say. That's the point of it. It has that self-destructiveness in it. And that has been something that Tourette's campaigners in the UK have dealt with for years and years and years and years, trying to get people to understand that.

54:03Richard Osman:And Pete Bennett, who went on Big Brother and things like that, it's something culturally we have come to understand a little bit more. it becomes apparent that that has not crossed the Atlantic at any point. But in the wake of this... And there is an award-winning film that explains the whole thing. It is all there.

54:21Marina Hyde:But there were also so many videos posted by black people with Tourette's trying to explain and essentially defending John Davidson. And listen, as I said, it is absolutely horrendous that Michael B. Jordan and Daryl Lindo stood up and had that. And I wish that it hadn't happened. but to end the week a whole week on when you would think that all sorts of different awareness of a neurological condition might have been increased to end it punching down at people with disabilities

54:48Richard Osman:is so depressing shame on snl i wonder what the the minister of culture in dubai would have to say about that marina i just i wonder i've just unticked a box um i was going to talk about olivia dean and why the biggest sounding song in britain at the moment is not number one let's do that next week you know if you're a geek like me about the charts and about some things like that then there's a really interesting story happening in the charts can we do a deep dive on yes the charts and how weird they are yeah i because i don't want to detract from uh that grand finish okay recommendations i am going to recommend on amazon prime a brilliant documentary made by morgan neville called man on the run about paul mccartney and the sort of decade after the beatles split up essentially a way of paul mccartney finding a way to be the most famous man in the world and have a family and make music it's really it's really really beautiful and interesting and the music is great and he takes so many wrong turns which which he's incredibly honest about you can see he's obviously sat in an edit and looked at this but you can see that every single thing that morgan neville has put in there paul mccartney's gone okay fair enough because there are bits in there where you go oh but because you know we we all make mistakes it's it's really really really lovely and if it's possible to think more even more highly of paul mccartney than you already did then you do by the end of this it's uh it's man on the run on amazon prime i would

56:10Marina Hyde:like to recommend the secret agent which is a brilliant brazilian film the story is extraordinary about living sort of living in conduct um amongst corruption and paranoia and i'm ashamed to say that I knew so little about that part of Brazil's history. I knew stuff about Chile, about Argentina, but I didn't know about this. And it stars Wagner more, and it really is. The production design, by the way, you cannot believe, and there's huge crowd scenes in lots of different parts, you can't believe that this film wasn't shot in 1977. Everything, the colour of it, that every thread of the clothes, every single thing seems that you're right there.

56:51Marina Hyde:and there are a couple of bits where you kind of are in the present day and it's so interesting to see just the completely different lighting, just the way everything looks completely different anyway. So I, but it's a really interesting story and I've been thinking about it ever since. So that's The Secret Agent. See you all on Thursday.

57:44Marina Hyde:We'll see you next time.

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