Has The BBC Really Cancelled Doctor Who?

18:36Richard Osman:Something like back rooms. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Mexico-South Africa game, they showed the Raul Jimenez goal on it and it was some referee, Wilson Sampaio, just sort of chasing us thinking, God, it's quite hard work, isn't it, having to keep up with these guys who, you know, are hearing a pretty fit. Yes. A, it makes you feel much more sympathy and empathy for referees. But B, it's just brilliant. Yeah. It just looks amazing. Or they're trying to make it more immersive. Yeah, more like a computer game. Yeah. but real. Yeah, POV, you know, it's everything is, yeah, the audio is very, is different, which is always a bit of a liability.

19:11So you have to be quite careful with the audio, because do we actually want to hear what they're saying? But you're supposed to get, because of all various of these innovations, you're supposed to get sort of faster and fairer offside decisions. I mean, I have some sympathy with Gary Neville. If you do it, can you please tell us, can you show us then?

19:27Richard Osman:Yeah. And if you're keeping the information in, I just don't trust you. I think it's a dictatorship. I think FIFA is a dictatorship. I think the World Cup is an abomination. There we go. There's our viral. That's today's viral. Yeah. Something like that. And let me tell you something about Gary Lineker. Lots of people are loving Christina Unckel. She's great. She's fantastic. So she's the American referee who they bring in if there's ever any controversial decisions, which there always are. And she's so no-nonsense. She was on the last World Cup as well. She was great on that. Very, very good.

19:54Richard Osman:But, you know, that sort of thing is a joy to watch. The cameras are very good. They've got lots more of the sort of spider cams. you can't have drone cameras so much in football, which were really good in the Winter Olympics, I thought. The drone cameras were amazing, but you can't have that because they'll probably get taken out by a... Oh, yeah, by the ball. Yeah. Or by one of the... Sorry, again, America, we have no need to have military helicopters doing a fly pass above a game. Just absolutely... We don't do that. Honestly, I'd rather that's what American military helicopters were doing at the moment.

20:23You're right. You're right. It takes a amount of circulation, doesn't it? Well, you know what? I would love it if you got... Anyway. I'll be overtaken this podcast will be overtaken by a deal in Iran but that's why John Healy

20:34Richard Osman:the defence secretary resigned because he said I don't have enough money to protect our country and also do flypasts do flypasts over every Premier League game I can't do it all it's very very militarised if you ever go to NFL games in the US there's so much military hardware in the skies as a display before I don't feel we need to see this during a World Cup certainly not where someone's just been awarded a Peace Prize but anyhow but FIFA have been sort of talking about date attainment they're sending people in the stadium the Wi-Fi is apparently way better and so they're sending you stuff on your phone well I mean it could hardly have been worse where you actually couldn't send your copy when you were filing from the stadium sometimes oh really oh my god sometimes there would be real disasters but anyway but yeah so they're sending stuff to people's phones in the stadium and they're trying to just make it all I hate it so much just you know what I know how I want to watch football I know what I want to look up.

21:28Richard Osman:I'll choose the one podcast that I love. I'll look at the goals and I'll choose the games I want to watch live. That's all I want to do. Stop trying to upsell me all the time. Yes, I agree. And they're always trying to make it seem like they're innovating. Stop putting a QR code on the screen saying, if you want more information, I have all the information I need. I have all the information I need. Exactly. I have all the information in the world. I do not need your QR code. But there is always, there's a sort of, you know, Americans like they're a distinct aesthetic to their sports and how they like it to look.

21:59And obviously FIFA have leaned towards that to some degree.

22:03Richard Osman:Can I talk a little bit about the rest of football and what it means for Netflix? So it's an interesting deal that the guys struck, a very lucrative one as well. And it is essentially sort of turning a podcast into a television programme, which we've talked about a lot before, that kind of mission creep of when you start videoing podcasts and then suddenly everyone under 35 starts watching them. and then they start watching them on their TV and then the streamer goes, oh, actually, perhaps we could, that feels like a bit of visual content. We do visual content. Perhaps you can come on this. And when they do that, of course, they want slightly higher production values and then suddenly it's turned into, as you say, a slightly lower budget football focus.

22:42Richard Osman:I mean, that's what it becomes. But if you look at the rest of this football, Netflix for a long time have been desperately trying to get into the world of scheduled television. So they do pop culture jeopardy with Colin Jost and things like that. They want people to come back every day to watch the same thing in the same way that terrestrial TV has always done. Yeah, they want you to stay longer on the service because at the moment, I think there's some dispute whether it's an hour, an hour and a half or two hours that people spend on Netflix. I think it's closer to an hour and that's it. They want you to spend much longer than that on the service.

23:14Richard Osman:And the best way of doing that is have a show that's on every day for you. That's like an hour and a bit long. And the rest is football ever since it started. It's been in the top 10 an awful lot since it launched. And often when you launch a show, it is in the top 10 because of the way the algorithm works. But if they can, as the tournament progresses, stay in that top 10, three, four, five, six weeks. And also they can show to Netflix viewers that you can turn on your TV and there's something, a new episode of The Thing You Like Yesterday. And it's live and you can come and watch it. It's just a way of changing that consumer behavior.

23:46Richard Osman:And it's a really good sort of Trojan horse to get people to understand that. Yeah, sport particularly. Yeah. And we know that they have had some sporting rights, but they say they haven't, and they say everything. Never even Netflix is what they say, but they want to have sports-adjacent stuff. So particularly when you've got something like this happening, the World Cup, which is obviously a kind of daily, iterative, incredibly compelling attention event. They're desperate to get into the world of visualised podcasts, because visualised podcasts are the absolute holy grail, which is there are a lot of them.

24:19Richard Osman:They have a loyal audience who want to see the next one. They create a big library as well, but they're very, very, very cheap. Yeah, and you leave them on. Yeah. Almost as though you used to leave the TV or the radio on in the background. And as you say, the World Cup is the perfect opportunity to say, this is a destination for that if you would like that. Because none of the visualised podcasts have really taken off, and none of their scheduled programme has really taken off. It makes a lot of noise, but people are being driven to it day after day after day in the way that BBC Daytime has with Homes Under the Hammer.

24:54Richard Osman:Netflix essentially need their Homes Under the Hammer. You're compelled every day to go there. And at the moment, the rest is football, is Netflix's Homes Under the Hammer. I mean, I should have said Bargain Hunt, really, because that's more appropriate. But I do think it's going to be a huge deal for Netflix. I think seeing those people coming back again and again and again and again for the same thing. If you make a two-hour film, you'll get a certain amount of viewers. viewers if you make an hour every day for six weeks and people are still coming back and coming back and coming back that is an entirely different business plan in fact it's the business plan in the supermarket you go you're going back in every day for it it's important and you just keep and while you're there you go do you know what i actually will get some ferrero roche yes you know we talked about the games themselves being less important i think the the bbc and itv have both done an amazing job in this world cup the presenting teams on both channels are great itv's pundit lineup is really really good it's really really good they did two games in a row the other day they swapped all three pundits and every single one i was like well this is great no filler yeah emma hayes i love yeah she's great yes i think both the channels are doing a great job but this world around it this noise around it the podcastification of the world cup i think is fascinating and um if you don't like it it's not going anywhere no it really isn't now shall we take a hydration break.

26:12Richard Osman:Oh, that's very clever. And after that, we're going to talk about is Doctor Who cancelled?

26:19This episode is brought to you by Lloyds. Now, I love it when characters are part of a club. You wouldn't know anything about that, would you, Richard?

26:26Richard Osman:The Thursday Murder Club, in some ways, reminds me of the A-Team. I now would like to map each of those characters onto the A-Team and feel I probably could. I mean, Elizabeth is Hannibal and it's not even close. Yeah, that's exactly right. And Ron is howling mad Murdoch. Well, there are definite perks to being in a club just ask the members of club lloyds because with club lloyds you can bank on lloyds to give you more wherever you are if you join club lloyds there's all sorts of benefits you can choose between there's for example six free cinema tickets they've got an annual coffee club and gourmet society membership which would be mine and also something that the thursday motor club would enjoy very very much indeed uh to top it all off you have fee-free spending abroad which means wherever you are you won't be charged by lloyds to use your debit card when you're traveling Now, joining this club costs£5 per month, but that is refunded in any month that you pay£2 ,000 into your account.

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27:58Richard Osman:Welcome back everyone. We're about to talk about Dr. Huber. You're doing another live show without me. I'm doing a live show at the Rest is Fest at the South Bank on the 6th of September, which is a crossover event with Tom Holland from The Rest is History. Okay. And it's called The Real Housewives of Regency England. I want to explain that we're essentially spending the entire profit margin of the weekend's festival on this one show. It's got very high production values. There's a number of things happening around it. And I think it will be a huge amount of fun. It will combine, if you love Regency England or you love The Real Housewives, I don't know which camp I'm in.

28:36Richard Osman:It's a bit of both. There's something for everyone. Beautiful. And we can get tickets? You can get tickets for this at southbankcentre.co.uk and it's on Sunday the 6th of September. Let's talk about Doctor Who. Now, Doctor Who, there's been a furore or a furore. What's happened, Richard? in the news this week because the BBC have announced that they are cancelling the upcoming Christmas special and they are putting Doctor Who out to tender and the fan base and indeed the newspapers seem to have taken the expression out to tender to mean out to pasture so there's been lots of headlines saying Doctor Who has been cancelled I won't stream this out too much it has not been cancelled it has been the opposite of cancelled what's the opposite of cancelled continued i guess so what has happened is this and i'll explain what being put out to tender means can i just say where we finished okay yeah the last the audiences saw was last may um 2025 which ended on a cliffhanger where um shooty gap was the um current doctor regenerated into rose tyler who if you know the show was is billy piper and was one of the doctor's companions right back when Russell T.

29:51Davis, the showrunner, first brought this show back in 2005. And he was the showrunner from 2005 to 2010. Then other people took it over and he returned in 2023. When he returned, there was a co-production deal with Disney Plus, which I will get into all of this. Anyway, so.

30:11Richard Osman:And that was the last episode essentially of that Disney Plus deal. So Disney Plus pulled out after that. their money came out as well which is sort of bad but you know these things almost always happen disney needed it to be a certain thing bbc needed to be a certain thing uh and it didn't tick all the boxes for everyone so disney pull out uh and the bbc go no listen we're carrying on we're going to do this christmas special so this news this week that says oh we're not doing the christmas special and we're putting it out to tender i think it's understandably uh makes everyone think oh my god is that the end for doctor who true story i've tried to speak to people from every side of this story uh and what happened was so in 2025 disney pull out the bbc are still absolutely saying no we are definitely going to carry on with doctor who what we will do is we're going to put this out to tender again i'll explain what that means in 2028 2029 that was the original idea at which point everyone goes oh we should do a christmas special to you know sort of bridge that gap because that's that's a long time it's currently made by or it was made by bad wolf yes Who are an independent production company.

31:13Richard Osman:But BBC own the rights. Bad Wolf made the show. So they said, look, we're going to put this out to tender. And because the BBC were dealing with Trump and Charlotte Moore, who was the chief content officer, was leaving and Kate Phillips was coming in. So there was a lot of churn at that point. And as soon as Kate Phillips properly gets her feet under the table, she said, oh, we're going to put it out to tender now. The whole point of putting it out to tender is this is a big deal for us. This show is a big deal for us. It's the opposite of saying we're going to arrest it. It's the opposite of saying we're putting it out to pasture.

31:43Richard Osman:It is saying this show is a big deal for us. We want to have this, give it multi-series. We need now to find production companies to pitch into us to say they want to make Doctor Who. So as you say, Bad Wolf make it at the moment. I don't think that they will pitch to do the new one because Bad Wolf are very successful at the moment. And, you know, Doctor Who is quite a burden to carry. It's almost like being, you know, the owner of a football team if you're in charge of Doctor Who. So there's a lot of politics to come with it. There's a lot more fear of loathing in it. We'll get on to the fandom shortly.

32:14Richard Osman:Production companies can now pitch to make Doctor Who. That contract is up for grabs. The BBC do this all the time with all sorts of shows, shows that they own the IP for. So something like Fake or Fortune, that went out to tender. Songs of Praise went out to tender. Mastermind, stuff like that. These shows where they make it and it is beholden on them to say, what's the best way we can make this? Can we keep it in-house? or has a production company got a great idea about how to make the show. So BBC Studios could pitch within this process? BBC Studios could absolutely pitch. BBC Studios almost always win these tenders.

32:45Yeah.

32:47Richard Osman:And sometimes it's because they make, you know, like something like Fake or Fortune, BBC Studios make it anyway. And so they have those talent relations. They have the cost savings of knowing how to make it. So, you know, BBC Studios usually are at an advantage. In this case, of course, it's been made by Bad Wolf for a long time. So they don't have any kind of incumbency advantage. However, one guess is they might win it, I would have thought. But I think there's various ways that you can win this pitch. If you, for example, he wouldn't do it, I'm sure, but if you were an independent production company and Jack Thorne said, I want to make Doctor Who and I'll make it with you, then you may well make that pitch.

33:24Richard Osman:if you are an independent production company and you see the importance of all the incredible ancillary rights to Doctor Who and the kind of extended universe and you have an incredible pitch that includes lots of digital media and has like a really really forward-thinking way of making Doctor Who you might win the pitch as well you know if you've got an incredible piece of talent who has agreed to come on board as Doctor Who and he's only going to work with you you might win that pitch but the process now is production companies will go into their bunkers they will think how will we make doctor who how do we make it for that budget do we keep it in cardiff i think it's it'd be impossible to win this pitch and not keep it in cardiff by the way because it's such a big deal to to the area and to the production hub there so i think it will stay exactly where it is but they'll be going away all their development people will be around knocking up a huge document it's it's it's it's a funny one if it's a bbc ip if you're bad wolf and you're making doctor who it's not the biggest money spinner you're going to make because it doesn't belong to you but production companies these days are far more um sort of companies for hire since the world of streaming where streaming always you know keeps the ip for production companies to say afloat now they have to take some of these gigs where you know then you're not making as much money as if you'd invented Doctor Who.

34:42Richard Osman:So 50 companies will pitch, the BBC will cut that down to four, they will be invited in for extra pitches, you know, to absolutely kind of go through every single detail of what it is that they want to do, how they're going to fund it, who the talent is behind the camera, in front of the camera, all of those things. And the BBC will eventually choose a winner in that process. But that hopefully is the thing that reassures tells Doctor Who viewers that this is not being put out to pasture. It's the exact opposite of that, which is the BBC see a long future for it. They have to find a way of future-proofing it, of making it in a way that works for them, works at a price that works for them, that, you know, hopefully retains the integrity of that production base in Cardiff.

35:25Richard Osman:But it's an enormously positive move. And the idea with the, because it's been slightly clouded by the fact that that Christmas special was cancelled, but as I say, they were, the idea was they were going to put out to tender in 2028 as soon as they said we're putting out for tender now you can't make the christmas special because the canon of the show would be affected so much by what they were about to do with the whole you know trutty catwater billy piper thing it's just you you can't lay that on the next you know there are companies out who are working on where they take the doctor who universe and if you're about to drop an enormous christmas shaped bomb in the middle of that it makes it makes that process impossible for everybody so that that's why it does it does i mean we'll get on to the fandom in a minute um and which like all fandoms i don't want to completely homogenize it because it's very factional we have to say why this has happened to some degree we have to be honest you know the ratings were not there that's why disney got out of it because it didn't work for them and not any of that the bbc cannot say that i mean the fact that the bbc are doing it at all tells you that the ratings are there for the bbc there's sort of i agree there's there's But what is it for the BBC?

36:31Is it like, when Kate Phillips came on the show, she's the chief content officer of the BBC, she talked about what she dreams of for shows that they're those three Gs. It's basically like a whole, all different generations sitting down and watching something together. And when I say historically, I'm talking about from the 2005 return that Russell T. Davis triumphantly created, it was that show. But that was a different, you know, that's now 21 years ago and that's a different totally different linear era and the difficulty with you know it's sitting on a streaming service disney plus but it's also and obviously on iplayer as well but it's also is it still this thing that people might sit down at you know 5 50 or 6 30 or whatever it is on saturday evening to to watch um i will i will say that shooty gatwa i don't feel that he understood that the sense of what that role is and it's a different role to lots of things it probably won't be the last time i mentioned bond but it's a bit like being something like james bond it's a big responsibility it's a responsibility it's an ambassadorial role to some degree and i don't feel he first of all he didn't ever in interviews come across as particularly enjoying it maybe that's just the personality type i don't know but you are something more than i'm just playing a guy on tv and you know david tenner obviously he was a huge fan capaldi matt smith who who wasn't but was, I mean, was extraordinary.

37:58As a replacement, I just think Matt Smith's era on the show is brilliant. And Peter Capaldi, who was another huge Doctor Who fan. All of those people understood that they were essentially in… It's funny, isn't it? It's a very unusual role. That's why I think it's almost like Bond in some ways. It means something much more and it's something connected to something kind of bigger. So also, you know, you have this fandom. the fandom is as I said I don't want to homogenize it you have some sort of diehard Whovians you have some real people who've been with it for decades and then you also have the kind of His Majesty's Press who think that it's all a big woke culture war Russell T Davies would probably say that elements he had rather lost elements of the fandom and I think that for me just reading the statement he said for the record there's no script I never wrote it and no actor was ever approached to play the next Doctor.

38:55You may disagree. Fine, sit in that chair and wait to be proved right. You'll be waiting a long time. There's a little niggle in there for me as a statement.

39:04Richard Osman:He's a good writer. I mean, I literally, I mean, I love him. I literally love him. And the only reason we're having any of this conversation at all is because this show fell away in 1989. And there were all sorts of people saying, who's going to rescue us? You know, maybe Amblin. There was a whole movement at the time. maybe Steven Spielberg's company is going to come in. Yeah, well, it didn't happen, guys. OK, and this show that we are even talking about now, Russell T. Davis was working at CBBC, I think, in 1989. And he, in 2005, he brought it back in this absolutely triumphant way. And that's really the reason why it's sort of in the mix in this conversation.

39:40It's a big beast, the culture around the show.

39:44Richard Osman:I say it is very like being the England manager or the chairman of a football club. I mean, it will end in failure, whoever you are. At some point, your exit will always be ignominious, always. In that last episode, there's so many different things happening. There's like the reality war is happening, without getting too into the absolute lore of it if you don't watch it, but the reality war is happening. An extraordinary thing has just happened in terms of a regeneration. To me, it is slightly like, oh, my God, how do I come back after No Time to Die if I'm doing the next Bond film? But equally, wow, here's something that we're now talking about in the similar terms to James Bond.

40:20I think the fandom slightly have to remember that whilst it had a very engaged fandom and people had a big heritage memory of it and hiding behind the sofas and all those sort of things, it wasn't this kind of global thing that people, and it's become, its status has increased enormously since 2005 as a whole idea. and so I think the fact that you're even having these conversations of like you know what who's so and so going to do it how will they deal with all these things I agree that there's quite a lot to take on just in terms of the loose ends and cliffhangers and you know things that have been laid down as story points that's the same for who has to come in and Stephen Knight has to come in and write Bond after No Time to Die and what they did at the end of that which was eccentric and but you know you've got to you've got to find a way through yeah and we know that people brilliant writers can find a way through these things yeah and that's the thing it's interesting

41:13Richard Osman:going out to tender because what it actually means is you do spread the net out net out quite wide there isn't sort of some sort of you know succession strategy all these different companies will be talking to different writers and somewhere there will be someone you know in the same way that you know the 1980s doctor who was so special for russell there'll be people for whom the russell T Davis show was incredibly special when they were growing up it was like some young writer who can take this on and do something extraordinary with it it has to be an awful lot cheaper than the last generation of it because the Disney money is out so you have to find a way of making it cheaper but you can do that with Doctor Who it's always been about emotion and storyline rather than CGI the BBC tender quite a lot of things and I'll say this there is not a single show that they have tendered which hasn't gone on to have multiple series afterwards they've never done a tender and gone actually we're going to get rid of this or done a tender and they do one more series and it disappears every tender the bbc has ever done is for a show that they are absolutely committed to and that they want to go forward with so it's not the long grass it is it is not the long grass even though people think it is at the moment it's not it's really really not it may well be just to deal with the financial side of it that some of these companies bring in production partners and bring in foreign money that the bbc doesn't have so you know there's lots of ways of cutting your cloth but genuinely it's a huge money spinner for the bbc still doctor who the the kind of universe um around it it doesn't punch its weight in terms of ratings you know on the overnights but that's becoming less and less and less important uh so i i i have to say something people will like there's a lot of noise about the christmas specialty the last christmas special tv ratings but something that i'm sure we'll talk about more when we come to christmas is is christmas tv what it used to be.

42:58I mean, across the board last year, they had some extraordinary things the year before with Gavin and Stacey and things like that. But actually, Christmas TV is not Christmas TV.

43:07Richard Osman:We have a folk memory of something that doesn't exist anymore. I've got a couple of ways of making it cheaper, by the way. Because as I say, lots of people will be pitching because this tender process has only just started. So there'll be lots of production kind of crews sitting around this week talking about how they land Doctor Who. Just ways of making it cheaper. This is my best way. Ross Kemp as Doctor Who and the whole series of him sitting around vaping while the TARDIS gets fixed I love it because he's just thinking about what happened in previous iterations and stuff but he's just every now and again Does it take you inside the mind of Kemp?

43:41Richard Osman:Yeah, a little Well, it takes you inside the mind of Doctor Who He's not playing Ross Kemp Isn't he always? Well, maybe, but isn't Doctor Who I think, anyway Okay, so Ross Kemp sitting around vaping while the TARDIS gets fixed. Yes. Junior Doctor Who, which is just a whole series where he's on strike and catching up on his sleep. That feels doable. So Torchwood, which is, as it be known, is an anagram of Doctor Who. So I've got two other anagrams. Hoot Crowd, which is Doctor Who looks after an owl sanctuary. Or Owl Hot Chord, which is the doctor injuring himself on hotel room kettles. Okay, I love all of those.

44:18Richard Osman:Not bad, is it? Absolutely amazing. So Ross Kemp is your pick for the next Doctor? I think the TARDIS being fixed and the Doctor having to just sort of go to the betting shop and just sort of wait around, pop into Aldi every now and again. It's going to be interesting. Just the kind of downtime of Doctor Who. What does he get up to? I'd watch it. If he can't travel through the universe. With a writer, I would watch it. Yeah, exactly. But genuinely, and I've tried to talk to as many people as I can, everyone seems very I absolutely see where the fandom is coming from the fandom are catastrophizing to some degree and by the way you would to varying degrees I think it's fair to say and you care about it so much it's interesting with Ingrid having been in Doctor Who I quite often meet Doctor Who fans and to a person I've found them to be just kind and thoughtful and funny and the process is going to be fascinating something really interesting will come do you want to know who the new Doctor Who should be?

45:14Richard Osman:Who? We've enjoyed very much Saturday Night Live, the UK Saturday Night Live, and there's an absolute standout star from that, George Fouracres. Wouldn't he be amazing? All the best Doctor Who's can really do comedy. You talk about Matt Smith, Tenor, Capaldi. They can really do comedy, but you could stick them on a Shakespeare, and they can do that as well. And George Fouracres is a great Shakespearean actor and a great comic. That is a great shout. Wouldn't he be amazing? I like that, yeah. Any recommendations, Marina? I have loved the new Olivia Rodrigo album, which is called You Seem Pretty Sad for a Girl in Love.

45:45and it's a whole arc from sort of falling, you know, I like this sort of genre for an album. But she became famous, you know, when she was 17 and I do think that's really difficult, whether you can grow as an artist and you can sort of put, she's absolutely a big, a huge deal, but she's sort of floating above that and I think she's absolutely brilliant. Robert Smith does a duet on this and she obviously brought him on stage at Glastonbury for her set and that was and I mean some people just sort of didn't get that but I think it's brilliant and you realise much but it's more developed that sort of influence on her in this and it's they're just great songs and I think it's really wonderful that she's been able to sort of kick on definitely definitely definitely to a much higher level because sometimes at that age it must be quite hard to become a sort of woman artist when you got famous at 17

46:35Richard Osman:and we live in a golden age of pop music I think we really do it's hard because we don't believe we do because we don't all coalesce around to the same songs in the same way that we used to because we're not just sort of a one radio station culture. But the songs are all out there. It's just, it's harder to find them sometimes when you're slightly older like I am. I'll recommend, there's a new series of four seasons on Netflix, the Tina Fey, Coleman Domingo and the rest of them. And it's just, it's very beautifully written, beautifully observed. And if you like the first series, you'll love the second series.

47:08Richard Osman:If you've not seen the first series of four seasons, I would strongly recommend that as well. so it's two recommendations really but the same show okay well we will be back on thursday with a q a with tom hanks toy story 5 is out um on friday and woody is here with us but we're talking about lots of it's really cool we we're talking about quite a lot of other things as well and it's wonderful disclosure we've already done the interview and he's a dude right oh my god please He's a dude. But we've asked your questions as well. So, yeah, join us on Thursday for Tom Hanks. On Wednesday, for our members, the bonus episode, which is I'm talking to James Kanagasorium, and it's all about capturing the zeitgeist.

47:52His company does a lot of work on the zeitgeist and where the zeitgeist is going next. It's really, really interesting. It's a deep dive.

47:57Richard Osman:That series between the two of you has been absolutely fascinating. If people are not listening to it, it is genuinely brilliant. He's so interesting. You're great, but I knew that already. He's very good. I didn't know he was great. He is very interesting. Okay, so if you want to join for ad-free listening and bonus episodes, it's therestorsentertainment.com. Otherwise, we'll see you on Thursday. See you on Thursday.