Have Celebs Lost Their Cool?

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1:00Hello and welcome to this episode of the Rest is Entertainment, questions and answers episode. I'm Marina Hyde. That was absolutely faultless. Thank you. Hi, nice to see you. Who are you? I'm so sorry. Do you know what? Absolutely hoisted my own petard there, wasn't I? I'm Richard Osman. I used to be on Pointless. Oh, yeah. Do you remember you know that guy? Yeah, I know that guy. Whatever happened to him? I've got a couple of views about him, but anyway. We'll get on to those shortly. Before we get to questions, can we do some any other business? We were talking on last week's questions and answers edition about the lack of success for women at the Oscars and how the Academy is not giving awards to women.

1:36And we got this from Stephen Follows. He's a film data researcher and a consultant for the Guinness World Records on movie records. That's a cool job, Stephen. Thank you so much for writing in. And he said Marina is absolutely right. So he's crunched the numbers for you. He said, in mixed gender competition, where women and men are in the same category, only 8 % of all wins of all time were women beating men. Only 8%. 97 % of cinematography wins, 86 % of best directors wins have gone to men only winners. He said, the only exception in the Oscars, can you guess the only exception? Hair and makeup.

2:10Costume design, with women winning over half the time when competing against men. Stephen, thank you so much for that. Oh, great to have a data researcher on Guinness World Records backing up anything you say. He should follow you around. I don't think that could happen with a lot of the stuff I say, sadly. But we will have another look at those statistics in the wake of the Oscars this year. Should we go to questions? Yes, please. James Miller has a question. He says, before a recent Suede concert in Manchester, my friend saw Brett Anderson, I know him, having a walk in the park before the show.

2:40And he said he looked like the coolest guy in the world. I was wondering who you both think are the coolest people in show business, the coolest people you've met. He doesn't use the word people, by the way. He uses the MF word. Come on. Come on, James. James is trying to be cool there. People who I think cool is under threat. And I will tell you why. But I really thought about this question because I think it's very interesting. And I think that in film, starting in film, I suppose, Keanu Reeves is cool. Yes. Harrison Ford is still cool. He's still cool. In terms of much younger people, I don't think...

3:12Timothee Chalamet, he's sweet, but he's not cool. The Kardashians are like the least cool people in the world. You can't go out with a Kardashian and still be cool. So he's unfortunately done himself. Some of the scars guards. Don't ask me which ones. Sydney Sweeney, but particularly because she seems like she doesn't care. I don't know whether she does or doesn't, but she seems like she doesn't. And I think that's a huge part of cool. There were people who were cool and aren't anymore. Johnny Depp used to be cool. Oh, he used to be so cool. Angelina Jolie used to be cool. But someone like Zendaya, Zendaya seems lovely.

3:44She's obviously incredibly beautiful and glamorous and whatever, but I wouldn't describe her as cool. For women particularly, I think it's much harder for women actresses in the history of everything because there's such a sort of impossible standard placed on the beauty and whatever and the type of the roles that it's interesting that when we think people were cool, we think, oh, Catherine Hepburn was cool. But that was because she was sort of wearing... Was she cool? I suppose she was cool. Monroe, yeah, she was cool. I mean, it's not the first word you think of. With Marilyn Monroe? No, I think you think of sexy.

4:13Do you think, yeah, but... And vulnerable and things like that. I don't think you think of cool. Steve McQueen, you're thinking cool. All the men you're talking about are very, very handsome. Timothy Chalamet is very handsome. Johnny Depp is very handsome. A lot of the time, that's what we mean by cool. Lots of people are handsome and lots of people are beautiful, but cool is something different and I think that's... Absolutely, but it's quite hard to be cool without being beautiful as a man any more than a woman. Yes, I think actually in music, there's much more latitude for particularly women to be...

4:35Look, okay, Charlie XCX is very cool. Patti Smith was very cool. Yeah, Patti Smith is very cool. Debbie Harry. And you can be unconventional. Chapel Roan is cool. I think people are different. And it's hard to be a megastar and cool. I don't think cool is the first thing you would say about Taylor Swift. In fact, a lot of her output and her lyrics are not about being cool. Madonna was cool. And then she married Guy Ritchie. Was she still cool? And you can't come back from it. That's like the female equivalent of going out with a Kardashian. Yes, it's exactly that. But I think that part of the reason that cool is on the threat, there are various reasons.

5:07I think that people are trying too hard. So we all know that everyone filters themselves. And, you know, people look like they care. Influencers just are not cool. Nothing cool about it. Yeah, Mr. Beast isn't cool. No, my God. I mean, what social media has done is devalue the idea of privacy, as we know. And I think you need some sort of privacy and unknowability in order to have mystique, which for me is a big part of cool. Mystique is a huge part of cool. A portion of unknowability to people was a big part of cool. And just the endless content of it all, you know, we've become much more aesthetically literate.

5:43So we don't feel that like any good photo of someone was just caught really quickly. It was just a candid unaware. Look at Serge Ganspour smoking. Yeah. He's cool. People now feel like they had to do 20 photos of whoever to get that or 30 because they do that themselves on their own Instagram pages or their own social media. The main threat to cool has been a cultural threat, which is that everyone is a sort of homogenized mass of approved opinions and behaviors. And I think you need to be quite free-spirited and almost dangerous in some ways to be cool. I think that is always a part that you might say something unexpected.

6:16And I think over the past few years, people have said very expected things. And they tend not to sort of try and be an outlier because an outlier, as in a herd, those are the ones that get picked off. So you're saying the membrane between cool and cancelled is very porous? Yes, I think to some extent. I think you have to be sort of outsiderish to some degree. Also, I think that you want to be able to feel that people might go against their commercial interests, even just for sort of shits and giggles. Yes, that's cool. Yeah, but there's much more of a sort of grind set and people think I'm going to work every day.

6:46I'm not, you know, I'm... Grind set? Yeah. That's the first time I've heard that expression. No. Yeah. Is it? There's like a mindset, but for the grind. Yes, this is an expression. and I think that if you go through the bonds okay like who okay Sean Connery cool Roger Moore like so not cool that he's actually cool now yeah he's gone full full circle Pierce Brosnan not cool what? no Pierce Brosnan Pierce Brosnan can I tell you this now no no let me tell you yeah Senator I have met Brett Anderson yeah and I have met Pierce Brosnan and listen they are both cool but Pierce Brosnan is the coolest man I have ever met them I have to tell you why he's cool because he's incredibly handsome so he could absolutely sail through life in any way he wanted.

7:28He could behave in any way he wanted. And he is such a gentle, thoughtful soul and spends his time painting. But that's nice. That's not cool. I don't believe that that's the intrinsic. I think you're just expanding the category ridiculously in an elastic fashion. I am allowed to define how... No, no, it's not that he's an all-round nice guy. He is very, very cool. He was James Bond, and yet he's still this incredibly giving human being. Which is what you're saying there is that he's humble. You're not saying he's cool. No, of course he's cool. I don't think that's cool. I think it's his very specific qualities pertain to cool, and that's not them.

8:07Wow. It's like I'm talking to somebody who's never seen the Thomas Crown Affair. You can't say Pierce Brosnan is not cool. I can, and I have. I love him, by the way. I absolutely love him. This is absolutely no shade. I don't think that is the persona and I think that's incorrect to suggest that that is the persona Oh right, listen, he's not someone who you'd kind of like a teenager might have a poster on their wall because, you know, someone's smoking a Marlboro on a motorbike Is that cool, Richard? No, but that's what Smoking's not cool, kids Going on motorbikes is not cool There's that very old-fashioned version of cool which is absolutely that a rebel and an outsider and someone who doesn't play by the rules but that's gone a long time ago Not necessarily I think in music people can be still like that and I think it's harder in cinema and it's harder in a world where it seemed like the kind of, the cultural conversation has to be very narrow and very prescribed and you can't say unusual and interesting things.

8:57I think that is harder. But I don't think, okay, safer ground. Let's do the supermodels. Kate Moss is cool. Helena Christensen's cool. Claudia Schiffer, not cool. Wow. I don't know if Kate Moss is cool. Yes, Kate Moss was cool. I'm sorry that you think that Paris Broussel was cool and Kate Moss wasn't cool. If you think Pierce Brosnan's bad, you're going to hit the rest of my list. You're going to lose your mind. I can't wait. Yes, I can see that Kate Moss was cool. But then, no, but if you see some of the people she surrounded herself with, they're some of the worst people in the world. Well, it happens.

9:31It happens. But you know what I mean? And yeah, amongst them, she rolled... Yes, she's cool. Like a lotus of coolness. Yeah, yeah. She sat amongst them. Yeah. And not everyone she hung around with was awful. But I'm just thinking of a few very specific people. One or two people in North London were okay. Sorry, who else is on your list? Well, it's hard now because I was going to lead with Pierce Brosnan. and listen it's hard I feel like I'm taking on water Lee Child is very very very cool so in the same way that Reacher his hero is very very very cool Reacher is cool Reacher is cool yeah Reacher is very cool and Lee Child is as well because Lee Child you know writes these books lives on a ranch in Wyoming half the year and just you know and it's just one of those people who just walks in a room and everybody turns their head he's just anyone you feel could be in the wild west he looks like anyone you feel in the west Billy Bob Thornton, he's cool.

10:17You still get the impression he doesn't care and that he's dangerous and he might just blow everything up. But with Lee Child, you have to look twice because you look at him once and then you look at him and you're going to, hold on a moment, is he smoking on a motorbike? No, he's not. He's just walked into the room. So Lee Child, I would say, is very cool. But I have a very different view of what cool is. Victoria Wood is one of the coolest people I ever met. Well, I think she is utterly amazing and a genius and all sorts of other things. She means more to me than almost any other comedian. but I don't think she's cool.

10:45You don't think she's cool? Well, then it just becomes a sort of meaningless world that you just apply to people you quite like or in my case, love. But you are. I don't think that's the same thing as saying what is a sort of platonic ideal of cool through the ages and, you know, that may be morphs and changes and obviously, you know, John Wayne is not the same as what came after him or whatever and I understand all of that. Marlena Dietrich is not the same as what came after but nonetheless, you know, and I think Victoria would have hooted with laughter if you described her as cool. Oh, of course you would.

11:13She would understand what a ridiculous point you would make. But that's why she's cool. You know, as Huey Lewis said, it's hip to be square. Wow. Honestly, I've got the name Stephen Hendry written down here. You haven't, have you? Yeah. For the benefit of the take, I'm holding the portion above my nose, which is what people do with it. And he's cool because he's completely different to how you think he's going to be. Completely different to how he comes across on TV. He's just a very, very... And that's another of the descriptions. It's like a massive thesaurus, isn't it? This is another of the descriptions of the world called people who are different to how you think they're going to be.

11:40I'm so sorry. Let me look at the question again from James. James, let me have a look at this. He's saying, okay, who's the coolest person in show business? Brackets, please only use Marina's definition of cool. Sorry, I didn't read that bit out, did I? Sorry, I forgot. I'm now looking myself and it says you can be infinitely elastic so that you can mention some people you like. Thank you, because that's what cool is. James, listen, you absolutely see you've opened a can of worms here. This is worse than the bookshelves. I will say this, this is worse than bookshelves. This is worse than bookshelves.

12:09Firstly, let us know. members you can use our bulletin board or you know on social media who you think is cool I personally think that Victoria Wood is cooler than Timothy Chalamet and also because Timothy Chalamet is not cool as I've discussed as I've ordained as I've ruled get me a gavel and let's move on the Pope of cool Marina Hyde I'm not remotely cool I understand that but you are the judge of everything that is cool I've got a gavel and I'm going to use it like the Pope famously have a gavel. Judges do. I will say this. Sorry if that's confusing. I will say this though. You're in a frightful muddle of mourning.

12:46Yeah, carry on. If we can end on a note of unity, I would say this in the spirit of the question that James asks. So his friend saw Brett Anderson in the park. So Brett, listen, it's no secret, he's the same age as my brother. They are 58 years old. He's 58 years old, right, and was walking through the park looking cool. I first met Brett when Suede first formed And he used to come round our house And he was 16 And when he was 16 He was so cool He was cool at 16 He's cool at 58 He's been cool for 42 years I think amongst all the disagreements we've had That's something we can agree on Is Brett Anderson is cool But we want other Bretts to spring up Which is why I think People call Brett Ideals of cool Brett the hitman heart or people like Brett was he not the hitman Bret Hart even his name was in uncalled order I'm thinking of Michael the hitman Holt the sneaker player the devaluation of the idea of privacy and therefore the attendance of death of mystique we need to sort of not the band who weren't cool we need to get that back and also the fear of wrong speak which makes everyone feel quite homogenised and doesn't allow the potential for people to say outsiderish interesting things.

14:08Yes, I know. And that's how I feel right now because I've been saying things and you're homogenizing my speech. And I've policed your speech, have I? Yeah, you have. I haven't even been able to say Roy Hodgson. Okay, well, that's an interesting point. Yeah. Oh, my God, is Roy Hodgson on your list? Yeah, Roy Hodgson's on my list. Wow. Hodgson, Wood, Brosnan, Hendry. There we go. That's cool. Done. But top of the list. No further questions. Top of the list, Anderson. Anderson, we can both agree on. Yeah. Shall we move on to another question? Please. Okay, just calming down for a second. One thing we get a lot is questions about what's real on TV on various shows.

14:43And I'm going to put two of these together for you. Okay. Ben Anderson says, is the lift on Dragon's Den real? Brett Anderson. Brett Anderson, I don't believe, would necessarily ask a question on Dragon's Den. But maybe he would. Maybe he would. Maybe he would. Okay, I'm sure you can overrule me in this position. But Ben Anderson says, is the lift on Dragon's Den real? I'm convinced it isn't as I'm pretty sure they wouldn't bother building a set across two floors just to have a lift and that the shots of the mechanism are just B-roll taken somewhere else love that hold fire though because Hannah Joss says about celebrity Gogglebox episodes when they do the outside shots of the houses do they actually use the outsides of the real celebrities houses or do they use a random house with permission from owners for privacy reasons and those are two questions we get an awful lot so we'll put them together the lift no it is not a real lift or it is no longer a real lift actually it actually was a real lift because when they first filmed Dragon's Den it was filmed in London in Shoreditch and it was like an old warehouse building and the ground floor was production and it was filmed on the first floor and they used the lift and people would walk up on the lift and because it became iconic when they moved to Manchester and the whole thing is on one floor, it is absolutely a fake lift.

15:48They should have taken it apart brick by brick and transported it and rebuilt it. I think it's now in the Smithsonian the original lift and yes so the mechanism is B-roll as Brett's brother Ben asked so yes there is not a lift on dragon's den but there was and so i understand why that conceit continues and celebrity goggle box no it is not the outside of celebrities houses i don't know what else to tell you that for obvious reasons it is not the outside of their houses it is essentially rented houses and the interiors as well well some people will do it in their own house but they will also say would you like to do it in a rented house and some people do do it in their actual house some people do not do it in the house but the definite thing is the outside of the house is not their house.

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17:09Welcome back, everybody. Marina Verity Gordon has a question, which I suspect you'll know the answer to. I am a long-time re-watcher of Gilmore Girls on ITV2. Oh. Ingrid introduced me to Gilmore Girls recently. Oh, it's so lovely. Isn't it great? Fantastic. She was like, I don't know if you're going to enjoy this. And literally five minutes in, I was going, Oh, this is one of the greatest programs ever made. Yeah, it was amazing. It was such a thing. Anyway, yes. Her question is not about whether I like it or not. Her question is this. The opening music, she says, is definitely pitched up. I think they are running the show at a faster speed to fit the slot.

17:39Am I right? Verity, that does happen on some show in the US, by the way, on reruns. And it's a real sort of scandal. They do speed it up slightly. It's really hard to tell. I've watched clips of Seinfeld and they do scripts so they can put more ads in on reruns which is, we have really strict rules governing how many ads, Ofcom rule and how many ads you can have in an hour so we don't do it to increase ads So an ITV half hour is 24 minutes, 15 seconds usually and so you've got those five and three quarter minutes of ads When they're doing cable reruns they can have many more When you've got them next to each other it seems like it's really obvious but when you watch them apart But it's quite difficult.

18:23First of all, the main reason this happens is because our PAL format is 4 % fewer frames. So they speed up ours over here. And so we speed up theirs over here. Do they slow ours down in America? Yeah, we're 25 frames a second. They're 29.97 frames a second. Wow. Now you're cool. Very uncool. there are ways that you can change various things on your tv now and i'm speaking to someone who's i mean i mean not that long ago with our tv set it was so complicated that if something went wrong when he was when he was away i would have to ring him up and it would be like he would be trying to like guide me blindfold into the death star's formal as soon as there's more than one remote control i i literally i leave the room yeah it's really it was really complicated anyway but how do Do I get the volume?

19:15Where's the volume? Broadcasters in the US do sometimes, they put it 1.1 to 1.3 times faster when they're doing reruns to increase how many ads they can show, which is bad. But isn't it interesting that Verity, the place she's spotting it is the music. Yeah, and that's the place where people spot it most, and that's when they say, oh, I know you're doing this. And it's a real, in the US, people get very angry about it, and I think they've slightly stopped doing it, But it does make it sound different. But in this case, I think in the way that what ITV would be doing, because they will have much stricter rule, operate under much stricter rules than US broadcasters, it's just a conversion issue.

19:53Sorry, that is very uncool, but it is the answer. Yeah, but it's good. It's good. It's good information. And well done to Verity for spotting it as well. If I was doing it, I would do the theme music normal speed and then speed the rest of it up a little bit more. We used to occasionally, if we had to deliver something at 24 minutes and 15 seconds, and it was 24 minutes and 21 seconds. There's lots of stuff you can do in that. And actually there are all sorts of interesting film editing techniques where people can make eyes 20 % bigger. But even the actor doesn't necessarily notice. They just think, oh, I look good.

20:26Wow. Yeah, there's lots of things that you can do where it's just slightly, it's not even tipping into the uncanny valley. You're just slightly enhancing and doing things because of digital editing. Yeah, I was talking to an actor the other day one of the big things about acting is can you cry on demand, which is seen as, you know, that's the, are you a good actor or not? And it's sort of meaningless. But now they can add single tears or teardrops in post. It can all be done. Oh, it's amazing. And the actor just said, no, I'd never cry. I would never cry. They'd just, yeah, I'd do the rest of the acting and then they'd add the tears.

21:00Yeah, add my emotions in post. Yeah. One for you about who do you think you are. Connor Martin says, do celebrities get paid to appear on Who Do You Think You Are? In my mind, you would think they'd queue up to appear regardless of the fee for the sheer privilege of getting to explore their ancestry in such detail. I loved your Brighton episode. Yes, it is brilliant. Well, thank you, Connor. If you haven't seen it, please watch Richard's Brighton episode. It's really fantastic. That's very kind. You do get paid to do it. It's an interesting one because Connor is absolutely right. It's one of those shows where if they said, oh, by the way, you don't get paid, I 100 % just would have done it because I wanted to do it to get the family history to give to my family.

21:34but you know not everyone is going to be that way and you you pay to get people to do it and mainly you're paying for someone's time it's the truth you know if i if you're filming for four days that's four days work where you could be doing other things and so you know you have a daily rate and you know because it's the bbc and because it is prestigious it's it's not a huge amount of money but it's you know you get you you do get paid for your time very very occasionally if you do a celebrity show you won't get paid often my view has always been pay me because everyone else on the show is getting paid pay me and i you know i can choose to give that money to charity because channel four are still earning advertising money on these shows and the production company is still earning their fee on these shows so everyone's getting paid so you know i think you're allowed to get paid as a as a performer on this i would always i've never done a charity show and not given the money to charity but that's that's would be my take but often certain shows you'll do if it's a favor to a friend you say i don't worry about getting paid i don't need that you're paying for someone's time so there's there's not a single show where you wouldn't be paid or at least being offered to be paid but yeah who do you think you are is an interesting one because there's certain shows where of course you're going to do who do you think you are yeah and of course you would do it for nothing i think if i was the production company it's quite a big ask to say oh by the way we need a week of your time and you're not going to get paid i think it would put some people there should always be some form of acknowledgement of that always and also because then you start a thing where you say oh we don't pay and then there's someone else comes and does it who maybe isn't in a position to say, oh, well, I don't, who might have a fascinating family story, but isn't in a position to say, oh, yeah, I can just have a week off and not get paid for it.

23:05No. It's very rare in life that someone pays you to do something you would do for free. It does happen, and that's definitely one of those occasions. What about this podcast? Yes. Do you know what? I would love to get paid, but, you know, I just like... We like to chat. I like being told what cool is. And where else am I going to get that? You know what I mean? Where else am I going to be told that Stephen Hendry isn't cool? talking of questions we get a lot um in fact this is a question we have three times within 15 minutes of each other from kira and andrew and steve um they all ask the same question this is a amalgam of what they're asking do they really get up at 4 a.m the contestants on the apprentice why does the voice on the phone say the cars will arrive in 20 minutes and then the candidates are immediately leaving with immaculately coiffured hairstyles and perfectly dressed ah well the house is a host to a lot of people because also they've got producers researchers welfare experts i mean it's this is it's like a sort of dorm room it's a hive um and they're sort of glorified babysitters and they have to ensure that the candidates are as disorientated as possible that's really always important in those reality shows if people are sort of still connected to the outside world you want these kind of you want a bubble and then people will behave in those heightened ways which make excellent television so they don't have phones they don't have clocks they don't have contact with the outside walls they sometimes call your family relatively rare occasions the alarm is set at 4 a.m and they do only have 20 minutes to get ready but sometimes the producers have to turn the lights on or like bang the doors to make sure that they actually wake up you see it's interesting this it's it's sort of a conceit it's sort of a conceit because you know some days they do have to be at the you know the national air force museum at duxford uh but sometimes they have to be just down the road and it's at 4 a.m and you you know the cars are arriving in 20 minutes you think well the cars have just left and it's sunshiny outside so it's not 4 20 and there's no way that hair took 20 minutes yeah there's no way but they would have got up early to do the hair so there is some truth in that they are woken up very early because a filming day is a very very very long day and so to sort of tell the truth of a situation which is these people are woken from their slumber at a time they don't know it's going to happen and have to get ready very very quickly that is true for sure but they wake up at four o 'clock the car does not leave at 4 20 that is that is definitely not happening so it's one of those weird tv things where it's it's it's true and not true it's it tells the truth of the story of the show which is these people are very very very tired all the time because they are being woken at ridiculous hours sleep deprivation is both one of torture and reality TV's greatest weapons.

25:39Yes, isn't it, Jess? So they're often going to bed about 11 o 'clock, and then you are up at four. And a lot of the lunatic decisions they make and the kind of absolutely left-field behaviour comes because they are very, very tired. Yeah, are because they are absolutely shattered. In terms of what the show is, it is real, because what you want to show is that these people are absolutely out of their comfort zones and that they are exhausted. it is it is not real in terms of they're not leaving 20 minutes after they're woken up because there's a million shots to do and even the shots of them walking to the car it's going to take longer than 20 minutes well it's not like three seconds of just as a camera the camera four different cameras four different angles let's do a shot of your feet let's do the car moving away let's do the car moving away and you fail to move in lockstep i don't care if you're tired you know exactly and that takes a really really really long time so by the time the cars leave which is why you have to get up at 4am because you've got to fit a lot into a filming day.

26:34So it's one of those bits of TV fakery that sort of is fakery and isn't fakery. They're also obviously allowed to do huge amounts of makeup before they go into the boardroom. The boardroom is very... But that, it would look so much worse if they were sort of dishevelled and whatever. You want that to look like, even though it's clearly a sort of weird set, that's in West Acton, but you want that to look like a prestige set, sugar on the booster seat, concealed. everyone has to look like is he cool come on do you think he's cool? Sugar? of course why don't you just be so contrarian that you say Alan Sugar is cool I think Margaret Malford was cool that's what I think about that I think she was cool you're fine are you saying that Margaret Malford wasn't cool?

27:22yes I am I'm so sorry what the Steve McQueen of the West Acton boardroom do me a favour this is so ridiculous i can't i'm not going to end on this i am ending on it no she is cool uh um and of course the boardroom is not in the gherkin those are the drone shots so you know all they're saying they're not saying it's in the gherkin they're just just before they're in the boardroom they have a shot of the gherkin those two things are unrelated then yeah as you say they have to look amazing they can't just to finish this it would just look worse all of this it wants to look amazing it wants to look prestige because you do at some point have to convince people that they're going for a very you know aspirational job yeah um and if you just have people looking sort of like they're doing a kind of garden task on big brother yes and it doesn't look great and it also has to be containable because you're filming an awful lot of people there there's an awful lot of shots to be if you think about how that's filmed and you don't you know he's talking to it could be talking to 12 different people and you've got one and you don't know who you'll go to next there's so many you've got singles on them yeah yeah exactly so that's a contained environment.