Have We Found The New Kardashians?

25:55And then there's also the Brat Pack of those kind of turn of the 90s novelists, Bret Easton Ellis, Jay McInerney, Donna Tartt. And that's the thing, creatively, it's actually very, very useful to hang out with other people who are incredibly talented because you drive each other on to do things. Because a lot of the British novelists in the 80s, Martin Amis, Julian Barnes, Ian McEwan, they all used to sort of go and have lunch and go and have dinner. And you could just tell, you know, they would talk about stuff and they would make each other's work much better. And that's the benefit of being in a group, being in a club.

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27:12Welcome back, everyone. We're about to talk about the Grand Tour. Talking of Grand Tours, I'm off on tour this week. Book Tour. Tickets still available at Birmingham Symphony Hall. That's the only one. Be lovely to see you there. I think you're going on tour as well for your book of columns. I am going on tour later in the month, and I'm going to be in lots of different places. I'm going London, Oxford, Bath, Birmingham, Brighton. Oh, I'm doing it with Jesse Armstrong in Brighton. I'm very excited. That's fun. And Edinburgh with Frankie Boyle, Manchester, Liverpool, all dates in late September.

27:39Why not Sunderland? I'm sorry. Why not Newport? Okay. Oh, I see you hate Tiverton. I'm going. I'm going to talk about my new book, What's a Time to Be Alive. We're going to have lots of fun. You can ask any question. I can't promise I'll answer it. But we will have an amusing evening and lots of great chairs. And I'm really looking forward to it. That'll be a lot of fun. It will be fun. Talking of tours. Yes. The Grand Tour, which is back on Amazon Prime this week. So the Grand Tour, as you know, it was what came out of Clarkson, May and Hammond leaving Top Gear. So they left Top Gear, they then went to Amazon and made pretty much exactly the same show, but with a budget about 15 times the size.

28:20They have now also left Grand Tour. And so there is this sort of succession going on. How do you replace Clarkson, May and Hammond? We all know, by the way, there's a side thing where Top Gear is coming back on the BBC as well. And again, there's that succession thing here. But on Amazon, they've got this – it's a huge brand. It's a big deal for Amazon. It's done huge business for them. And Clarkson's Farm, of course, does huge business for them as well. So how do you replace the three of them? It was their biggest ever premiere when it came out, I think. The trouble is we never know with Amazon because they don't tell you the numbers.

28:52And obviously it's nothing compared to – we'll come on to first as top. I'm just looking at the budget for the first episode of this next one. I think it has worked for them. Yes. They seem happy to have thrown some money at this. So they've replaced the three of them. And the simplest thing to do, the obvious thing to do, the 10 years ago thing to do is let's get three celebrities in to do this. Traditional celebrities. Yeah. Faces that people know. But that world has changed. So actually they brought in three people and people go, oh, why are they brought in three unknowns to do this show? And of course, they're not unknowns.

29:26They brought in James Engelsman and Thomas Holland from the Throttle House YouTube channel. And they've got like three million followers. Three million subscribers. So yeah, they're not unknown. People know who they are. Unknown to you is not unknown. Exactly. And they have also brought in, and this is the masterstroke of the thing, Francis Bourgeois, who became massively famous for his incredibly enthusiastic TikToks about steam trains and other trains. He's on it. He used to be an automotive engineer as well. And again, he is quite famous. He is famous in a certain demographic. I saw someone describe him as like almost enthusiastic enthusiast.

30:02Yeah. I always get mixed up with Francis Ball from Made in Chelsea. So in my head, I've always been confused about why people loved him so much. Yes. But now I get it. Content worthy of it. Yeah. So what they've done, they've brought these three in. And the first episode went out this week. And I'd say it's a triumph. I think it's brilliant. It's so good. It is absolute continuation grand tour. The three of them are great in the same way that Clarkson, May and Hammond were great. it looks a million dollars and it cost a lot more than a million dollars but it looks it looks incredible the three of them i think are great francis bourgeois is such a stellar star and this is the point there's all these people on youtube there's all these people that people are throwing money at and saying or this person's right and you you kind of see that who they are and they're boring yeah this guy is amazing yeah he's so great he's very genuine yeah he's a great television again as a producer i'm like oh we got one yeah we finally i absolutely get this i absolutely understand how he's built his empire because everyone who sees him loves him and they've stuck him in this format and he can do this too he's not kind of going i know this is all about me he's like oh i understand what what it is you need me to do the three of them he is a complete natural brit yeah i really agree so firstly this idea that they replace them with unknowns and it's fascinating because they are unknown to a certain demographic, but they're not unknown to another demographic.

31:31Secondly, the fact that they haven't gone for a big name at all. And thirdly, it's an exact replication of what they did with Top Gear in the first place. And I think that's the interesting thing. Top Gear in the first place, all three of them really, Clarkson, May, to a lesser extent, Hammond, were sort of motoring journalists. They wrote columns for magazines, the researchers got them in. John Bentley, who was, I think, started as a researcher on Top Gear and became one of the producers, had just read a couple of Clarkson's columns and go, oh, this guy's got an interesting take on things. And Richard Hammond was like an afternoon local radio DJ, but then started doing a bit of work on men and motors.

32:08So when they started on Top Gear, they were as unfamous as these three. In fact, they were far less famous than these three are now. But what they were is producers had seen people who had written about cars for a very long time, done radio shows for a long time, done the graft, done the work, brought them in and they absolutely flew. And that's the same with these people. You know, James and Thomas. By the way, Thomas Holland. We have another Tom Holland. What's going on? What's going on in public life? So now we've got Tom Holland, Tom Holland, Thomas Holland and Tom Hollander. Yeah. Come on guys.

32:41Guys, that absolute moratorium on anyone entering public life until one of those just decides to leave it and go and live on a desert island. And this is the thing, you know, this is where YouTube is going to come into its own is in the same way that James May and Jeremy Clarkson had years and years of writing about cars. These two have had years and years of talking about cars and producing a show. They don't just go on and say, oh, this is me. I wonder what I'm going to do today. They do a job of journalism. People in television that are able to watch that go, oh, you really know what you're talking about.

33:11You're incredibly personable. Let's get you in. Let's screen test you. And it turns out that they can do the job. I've seen a couple of reviews saying this quite stilted, the banter and stuff like that and you go take a look at the first series of talking yeah well don't take a look at the first series because james may was not on the first series he was on the second series there's a guy called jason door was uh was was the original third amigo on that one of the most mental reactions to all of this that i've seen and it is really prevalent in the same way that the one is like i've never these people are nobodies i've never heard of them is they should not replace it you cannot replace it it's like okay that's interesting so you're saying that a format that makes unbelievable amounts of money and does great business.

33:51What is wrong with people, Richard? What is wrong with people that people think you just shouldn't even try to replace it? Even the interviews they gave, you have to speak to that tendency. Can I just give you some of the, it's so funny, some of the quotes from them, bless them because they've had to do this. The new host. Yeah, from the new host, right? Here we go. We've all had the same reactions that the audience has had to every part of this process. Like who would do that? What an idiot. That's one of them. we've done our absolute best and the critics will be critics and I hope that we will prove them wrong and another have a watch and if you don't like it you're well within your rights I can't force anyone to like anything they've all had to do this because you have to prostrate before the bit of the fandom that genuinely thinks a thing I like should die should die with the previous host and it should not return I actually find that just completely so mad there should be no car program on Amazon because I can't have my original car program it's really genuinely ridiculous but it's a huge thing out there that people just feel like it really is and i get it and but also it's we've talked before about how we keep putting older movie stars in things despite a younger audience telling us that they don't know who they are anymore and that then that to them is not a movie star and every anytime we put a younger movie star in that audience goes to see them and that's not by the way oh my god isn't it tough it's just that's what happens generationally we like our own stars and you know clarkson may and hammond who've given full backing to this.

35:13I mean, they are, I mean, Hammond is my age and he is very much the youngest of the three of them. They've done this for a really, really, really long time. You see with them, you know, they all appear in various points of this series. They absolutely get that this has to move on. They don't want to do it anymore. They've all got other things on. They're all, you know, working very hard. I think they're very proud of all the things that they've achieved in that. And they would like it to continue. It'd be nice if there was a programme about goals because people like them. Yeah. I'll say one thing about Clarkson.

35:43This is, I mean, my God, that man's got a business brain. So they all turn up at some point, which is really, really lovely. May turns up and chats to them. Hammond does as well. Clarkson turns up right at the beginning. It doesn't just turn up. They've worked out this shtick, and this will be Clarkson and Andy Willman, his producer. They've worked out this shtick that the three new hosts are going to visit the big tent where the grand tour was originally set, where they had the live stuff, to ask if they're allowed to use the tent. Okay, so I wonder, because we're about to do the Grand Tour, can we use this tent?

36:15So they walk in, and of course, what is the Grand Tent now? It's the farm shop at Diddly Squat. So they walk in, Clarkson is there, he does a great job on it as well, but he says, well, you can't really use it because, look, I've got a butcher's, I've got this sitting area where you can get a coffee, there's an off-license. He's essentially telling you all his businesses. Yeah, and he goes, also, it'd be hard to film here because it's really busy. It's like you wouldn't so much have an audience, would you? You'd have customers. He does it in a way that feels completely authentic, where you don't kind of think, oh, come on, man.

36:47But absolutely. But ironic as well. It's hilarious. Hilarious. It's really, really well done. So I think, you know, to the three new hosts, to Francis and James and Thomas, because I've seen some of those interviews and everyone's on the defensive. It's like when Claudia was doing her chat show and she was saying, well, it might not work. I mean, I just, I'll give it a go. You sort of have to do that. I would say to the three of them there, I thought you were brilliant. I thought genuinely you were the right people for the job. If that is your first episode, then you're going to be great. Yeah, they have really good chemistry.

37:15They have really good chemistry. You can tell that James and Tom Holland III have worked together before, and France is an amazing connection into that. Now, it looks incredible. I'll say that. It's no longer made by Clarkson and Clarkson's company. It's no longer owned by Clarkson and Clarkson's company. It's now made by Studio Lambert, who make all sorts of, you know, make the traitors and things like that uh the the production is brilliant phil church with alex wenton uh near yemo an amazing team amazing team of camera operators but interestingly andy willman who we've spoken about our respect for before he was the sort of the creative brains with clerks and behind that whole empire consulted on this series and when you talk to anyone who's on that team they just said he's so brilliant yeah you know like without ego but he just gets how to tell a story he gets how to shoot something he gets you know how to build a segment and he gets how to tell stories but i wanted to as i as i was sitting there watching in in this first episode they got three supercars and they're doing a race against a fighter jet in the mojave desert and on this enormous budget and it made me think about reinvention how you reinvent something and i think they've successfully reinvented that and top gear actually is probably the greatest example of how to reinvent something in our culture.

38:33It's extraordinarily done. It is nearly 50 years old now, Top Gear as a brand. 1977 was the very, very first one. And it was a regional BBC Midlands production. So a producer called Derek Smith said, I wonder if we should do a monthly programme about cars and, you know, roadside assistance and, you know, how to fix your car and stuff like that. And I've gotten it. It's called Top Gear. And BBC Midlands said, yeah, okay, let's do that. And it was presented by Angela Rippon in the first series. And a guy called Tom Coyne. And so I did, as I like to, a deep dive into Tom Coyne. Now, people in the Midlands, older listeners in the Midlands might know Tom Coyne because he did the regional news for a long time.

39:11But Tom Coyne, as I say, I'm sitting there watching fighter jets in the Mojave Desert and these incredible supercars. Tom Coyne was the very first host of Top Gear. He started his career in the early 1950s with Children's Hour on the Light Program. Okay, that's where he began. So that's where Top Gear began, with somebody who was on the light program just after the war on Children's Hour. So they did that. The National BBC said, oh, actually, yes, I think we could use a motoring magazine. So they brought Top Gear into national television. Noel Edmonds took over all sorts of other people. People like William Woodard, again, they would get journalists to do it.

39:52Went and went and went. It always did pretty good business. They brought Clarkson in in 88, I think. and he was the sort of catalyst to change it a little bit up from just a kind of magazine into something where you think oh this is interesting it's got a an attitude and a personality which was sort of ahead of its time there now the key thing that happened and this is where when you revamp something this is the thing to always think about the bbc at the end of the 90s just the ratings weren't quite where they needed to be so the bbc say okay we're going to rest top gear okay now all All of the Top Gear team immediately took all of their expertise, all of their presenters, and went to Channel 5 and did a show called Fifth Gear.

40:35So they said, we're going to do the same show, and we're going to do it on Channel 5. Everyone did that apart from two, and those were Jeremy Clarkson and Andy Willman. And they did a show in the 90s called Jeremy Clarkson's Motor World, where he'd gone around the world and looked at culture and different things. And I think that was the catalyst for this. They said, actually, we're not going to go and do that same show. we think the show should be completely different they're the ones who came up with this template pitched top gear got it made and that was sort of the beginning so it's the same brand but they did they supersized it in that incredible way and turned it into what it is today and for people who don't know it was like officially recognized as the the world's most watched factual tv show they always told you it reached 350 million it was in 212 territories it's it's so much bigger than you can possibly imagine.

41:22A lot of people just think, yeah, because they sold it via Worldwide and it just became this unbelievable thing. Yeah, it's made so much money for the BBC. And at first, Clarkson and Andy Willman had a piece of that. They then later didn't have a piece of it, but of course they then had a piece of Grand Tour, which now they don't have a piece of. They've sold that to Amazon. I did some back of the envelope maths and I think that Willman and Clarkson have made certainly north of 100 million pounds from this franchise. Yeah. From this show that really began with a man from Children's Hour in the 1950s.

41:57Amazing. Clarkson wrote some funny articles for a magazine and some, and John Bentley thought, oh, it'd be interesting. Maybe I'd chat to him and brought him in. And then his friend from school, Andy Willman, came and also did some on-screen stuff as well, Andy Willman. And when the BBC got rid of it and everyone went, no, you can't get rid of it. It has to say the same. It has to be the same people. People like this show. We're going to keep doing it. They did exactly that on Channel 5, and that disappeared. But two of the people in it went, no, we can reinvent this. We can do something different with this.

42:27They did it. They did it amazingly. It made a fortune for them. It's made a fortune for the BBC. And now we find ourselves with the next generation of it. And I think they pulled off the same trick again, which is they understand how to do it. They understand we're going to get new people, and we're going to get the right new people, people who know what they're talking about, people with a bit of personality. and then we're just going to shoot the head out of it and make it look incredible and serve an audience that knows exactly what they want and we know what it is they want. I just think what an object there's in 50 years and this thing is just, it's completely transformed but it's the same thing.

43:01It's the trigger's brain of television. So a fair play to everybody behind this and also good luck to those three hosts as well. Don't listen to the critics. Right, finally we are going to talk about Galliano Gate. Yeah, this is a big New York story that has, It's interesting because it's taken in the worlds of fashion and art and New York politics and the media. John Galliano, the fashion designer, was given a huge retrospective exhibition, effectively by Anna Wintour, who kind of made him as a designer and who now presides over the Met Museum of Art's Costume Institute. If you go to it, you go around, you know, and you'll go back to go down the stairs into it.

43:41Her name is literally hewn in stone. above yeah it's the Anna Wintour you know that's very Trumpian but there's been a huge backlash and it's now not happening so by way of background to sort of who is John Galliano he was a brilliant designer it's unquestionably a brilliant brilliant fashion designer he went to Central St Martins he had his own label then he went to two of the biggest houses to Givenchy and to Dior which is the sort of you know apex of anything and latterly he's done other things but there was an incident in 2015 where he was recorded saying terrible anti-Semitic things and it was all on camera and it was a complete sort of fall from everything.

44:20Since then, he's sort of made gradual attempts at rehabilitation and it's interesting, fashion has now sort of basically accepted it. He went to Maison Margiela, which is a very sort of avant-garde label and coming up, I think later this year he there's some collaboration something with zara so that's so so he's working he's working again he's making money again and all that stuff so yeah so inside the industry there's he has attempted you know various forms of okay well within fashion yeah yeah but well i think this is quite interesting because fashion is not the real world but often fashion has been much more powerful in the past this met exhibit is always tied to the met gala and it was going to be called John Galliano Horizons, sits in spring 2027.

45:03The Met Gala is always in the first Monday of May or whatever it is. And they always have a very big exhibition to which it's tied. And they did say, you know, we'll confront his racist, his anti-Semitic behaviour. But remember, anything at the Costume Institute is basically, and Anna Wintour, she is the legendary editor of Vogue, you know, who Miranda Priestly and The Devil Wears Proud is based on. She became the sort of editor-in-chief. She remains some sort of, you know, presiding role at Condé Nast. And she's used, by the way, to when she says something is in or out or OK again or not OK again, she's used to that being accepted.

45:42Yeah. Beyond. She makes the weather. Yeah. She's actually, you know, talking to various people about it. A lot of people say, I mean, she's a huge fundraiser in democratic politics, but there is a very significant sort of Trumpian element to her, which is when she decides something's going to be, then it just has to be in reality. It's just going to have to bend around it. As soon as you have your name carved into stone on a building. Well, you know, maybe the Met Gala's bought in$300 million or something, or some people say$500 million to the Costume Institute over the years. But remember, it's become this huge cultural behemoth that it never was before.

46:16It was a sort of party for New York society. And now it's become this unbelievable thing. I'll get to more of that. It's like the Super Bowl of fashion. It's beyond. It's ridiculous. She has backed him, Galliano, for decades. And she says he's a creative genius who's shown remorse. So when there was this backlash from lots of different Jewish leaders, she tried to have meetings with them. But there's all sorts of things. The backlash has become so intense that the plan has collapsed. And he has sort of apologized. He has apologized again and withdrawn. And Anna Wintour has sort of supported him in that and said it was courageous, which is so her to sort of let him own it and be a victim as well maybe and not take any form of responsibility for this herself.

47:01You know, she loves tennis. She's famously a mega tennis fan. She's even after all of this, which is a huge kind of humiliation in lots of ways. She's turned up at the US Open. But all of these things... Can we do a tiny sidebar when we're talking about the US Open? Yeah. Which again, we talked about it, like everyone wants to get influences everywhere and the US Open has like invited like 100 influencers. It's just to try and get a different audience. And I don't think it went brilliantly. And there's one point where Sabalenka as well said, I have to leave the court because the smell of dope is so overpowering.

47:33And people saying, you've never actually watched any tennis ball. You have to be quiet while it's happening. They literally had no idea how to behave. But anyway, this slightly reminds me of one of those BBC scandals that might be about something else, but in three days' time automatically becomes about the director general. This has now really become about Anna Wintour. By the way, the Met Gala this coming year, when this exhibition would have been tied to it, it turned out to be on Holocaust Remembrance Day. So this is why, and in a city with so many kind of incredible Jewish cultural donors and being as heavily involved in democratic politics as she is when the issue of rising anti-Semitism, she knows how much anguish that is causing in those circles.

48:16This is such a huge miscalculation to have to pull this thing. and it's interesting because you know maybe people in fashion still love him or forgive or whatever but it what this makes clear and the reason why we're talking about this because I think it's quite interesting is what people in fashion think matters is so much less important than it was in previous decades what Anna Wintour thinks matters or she can get away with doesn't matter so much anymore and it's interesting that neither seems to have seen this coming it's really kind of fascinating. As I say, she's got this kind of Trumpian thing where she drives things through and she's a bulldozer.

48:53And she's always been a bulldozer. She's a bulldozer within Condé Nast. And you can still see her power within the Empire. It's interesting. The Vanity Fair, who's got a very good editor at the moment, Vanity Fair, Mark Giugici, who's really breathing life into it. It's very difficult to do that into magazines these days. But that Proust questionnaire, you know, their famous Proust questionnaire. This month, it's John Galliano. know it's like did he choose that or was this imposed upon him okay people say this was pushed through the donors and the trustees of the met it's way too sensitive you know fashion's in a bubble and it reminds me yet again of this kind of sense with her that it's the end of an era as i said to you when she started like being involved in lauren sanchez's wedding it's like you get gate kept these awful people as she would regard it out of fashion for decades and now what you They hosted the Met Gala, Lauren Sanchez and Jeff Bezos, and she chooses the dresses for the wedding.

49:47Talking to people who are involved and know about the Met Gala is absolutely wild, talking about how influential she is. Say a table costs 350 grand. Say, for some reason, I have 350 grand and I take a table. I can't say, well, I'll have Richard and Ingrid because they've got to see it. They'll find it historical. No, no, no, no. She decides, you pay the 350 grand. She decides who sits on your table and, you know, what clothes they wear. Like every single tiny thing is hers. So you don't get to invite anyone. You can pay the money. And you're saying, I see, Anna, that you said I'm sitting next to Tom Holland.

50:20I just need a little bit of clarification about which one. And also who he's wearing. But there was this year there were these rumours because of this that maybe Chanel weren't going to take tables. Maybe LVMH, so the really big names that you need to take tables. It does raise a lot of money. But what's interesting about the Met Gala is that it's you can people, the culture and clearly lots of the, you know, artistic patrons at the Met Museum are becoming kind of grossed out by the spectacle. That it's sort of it feels like an event that's eating the museum, you know, and you as I say, you know, it's really interesting that her patch.

50:57She hadn't she's miscalculated this on a grand scale in a very, very public scale. and it seems to me something that's really really speaks to the sort of fashions of the times the idea that a gatekeeper can say John Galeano is having an exhibition because I made him and I'm going to restore him that way of doing things is so non-authentic the idea of controlling every little thing is becoming non-authentic also becoming impossible I mean we've spoken before about context collapse and it's exactly that which is everyone exists everywhere all the time now There was a time in which Anna Wintour could run the whole of fashion because nobody outside the world of fashion knew what was going on or cared what was going on.

51:37They cared about their things. Now, your Instagram feed is showing you the Met Gala even if you're not interested in fashion. So it becomes something that you have an opinion on. And that's happening in every single area. There's absolute context collapse, which is the thing that you are trying to do is now being seen by everybody. And most of them have no idea about the small nuances inside it. So you can't keep these little... And they have dramatic reactions to it that are often blowback against an institution. I mean, you know, it's sort of crazy that this party has become as well known as the museum or something.

52:13But all of that thing, all of those things that she represented, gatekeeping, you know, which she's now tried to move the times and bring all these kind of influences in. But all of the gatekeeping that she represented is sort of dead as we all, everything we talk about in this podcast It's like the barriers to entry are totally different now. People are doing things. And the old people who said, yes, you can do it, you can't. That just seems so kind of antediluvian and old and whatever. And it's not fashionable ultimately, which is so funny that we're talking. She's so out of fashion, you know.

52:44Gatekeepers are out. Messy authenticity is in. And, you know, not to be able to smell something on the wind, which is what fashion is all about, just having something in the air and knowing that what people might want just down the line. It's so interesting because she's failed on all of those fronts here. And I've said before that, you know, her kind of revolution is over and she effectively lost because this world was not the world that she sought to create. And this really, I think it's just so interesting how it brings it all in. And, I mean, I don't know what they'll do. What will they do instead?

53:15Some people, lots of people are saying, oh, they should cancel the Met Gala next year. It's like, wow, okay, well, that's not going to happen. It's not, but lots of people. That's like cancelling Top Gear. I agree, but lots of people at the museum are like, are there other ways we could do this? It's very expensive to put on. So even though it brings in a lot of money, it's very expensive to put on. One person seems to control it. Other people could do it. Maybe someone else should control it for a bit. But the idea that, as I say, it's this kind of monster that's almost consuming their institution, they don't love.

53:47Yeah, it's like Beckham at Manchester United. Sometimes, there came a point. There came a point. and where is our Sir Alex Ferguson at the Met? Where is someone with a shoe in their hand? Yeah. Any recommendations this week? Well, we talked before about James Marriott, who's a great writer from The Times. He's got a great sub stack as well. And he wrote that fantastic essay about the sort of end of reading and the dawn of the post-literate society. And he's turned it into a kind of book. He writes so beautifully. He does. It's really so warm. It's funny. And it's called The New Dark Ages. So that's by James Marrott.

54:22That's out now. I think it's so important. It is horrifying what is happening. I mean, we are measurably becoming more stupid and stopping reading. And we don't understand basic things that we're used to anymore. And it's, I mean, it is from the phones. He's a great writer. I love him because he's sort of a man out of time. And you sense his despair. But then he also has a little bit of optimism. And as I say, he's funny. Absolutely. And, you know, it's a short book. Amazing. You love it when I say that. And anyway, so I recommend that. What about you? I recommend a book called Black Out Loud by Jeff Bennett, which is a history of black comedy in the United States of America.

54:58And it's essentially sort of a sequential thing that takes us from kind of the traveling minstrel shows all the way up to the early black comedians who broke through to white audiences, then takes you up to people like Red Fox, who was in Sanford and Son, funnily enough, one of the huge US sitcoms, then up to Richard Pryor and Bill Cosby and Eddie Murphy, and then leaves us where we are now. So it's a really, really biographically fascinating, sociologically fascinating thing about American black comedy and I couldn't recommend it enough. Jeff Bennett is called it. Black Out Loud. Black Out Loud, it's called, yeah.

55:29And that's us done, I think. Our Q &A this week was your questions for the new Strictly hosts. So I chatted to Johannes and Emma and Josh and I put all your questions to them about the new series of Strictly. Also lots of other things as well. So I hope you enjoy that. It was really, really good fun. They're a really fun combination as well. And our bonus episode are The History of James Bond continues this week Thank you again Thank you for your incredible feedback about that They know people who come up to me in the street Saying how much they're loving that Bond series So that's our If you want to become a member It's wrestlersentertainment.com Ad-free listening or all that kind of malarkey As always you do not have to become a member But if you do there's all sorts of goodies there Other than that let's see you on Thursday See you on Thursday

56:18Thank you.