How Not To Become A Meme

0:00The rest is entertainment is presented by Octopus Energy. Now they've looked at admin and decided it should behave much more like a game show.

0:06Richard Osman:When you provide your meter readings, they will give you a spin of a wheel, which allows you to win prizes, allows you to win octopoints, which you can spend in the shoptopus. Yeah, it's the gamifying of the boring bits of your admin. Now listen, you know how much I love Octopus Energy. The prizes, I'm going to say, are not quite up to the standard of the Wheel of Fortune. The biggest ever prize on the Wheel of Fortune. So over$1 million. What feels more similar is some of the random prizes they'll get on the Wheel of Fortune. They've had ceramic Dalmatians. I saw one where you could win a Gucci calculator.

0:41Richard Osman:You think, okay, that's two of my favourite things. There was an Onyx bin. Yeah, again, I'm not dissing the prizes, but I would have probably gone for the Dalmatian. None of these things you have to worry about with Octopus Energy. It is simply Octopoints to spend in the shoptopus. Well, you have to submit your meter reading to earn a spin. Oh, you have to do that. And then you get prizes you don't actually have to persuade yourself you want, like, money off your next bill. You can get£1 ,000 off your bill. If you get the top prize, which is 800 ,000 octopoints, £1 ,000 off your bill, just on the spin of a wheel.

1:10Richard Osman:Girl, winter is so last season. And now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cut-offs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang-on-the-patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope? It's time for a little in-person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. It's time to refresh your yard during spring backyard days at the Home Depot. Get low prices guaranteed on propane grills starting at$179, like the Next Grill 3-Burner Gas Grill.

1:52Richard Osman:or get$50 off a select Weber Spirit Grill and bring big flavor to your backyard. Then set the scene with Hampton Bay String Lights that bring it all together. Shop Spring Backyard Days for seven days at The Home Depot, now through May 6th. Exclusions apply to homedepot.com slash price match for details.

2:14Hello and welcome to this episode of The Rest is Entertainment, questions and answers edition. I'm Marina Hyde.

2:19Richard Osman:And I'm Richard Osmond. Hi everyone. Hello Richard. Hey Marina, how are you? I'm very well, thank you. I'm actually glad that our first question's got something to do with House of Games because I wanted to know a little bit more about how your last episode felt. Tom Baker, he is careful to say not the fourth Doctor. I've worked for many years with a writer called Tom Baker, whose nickname was Tom Baker, not that Tom Baker. So every time you talk to him, he has to say, Tom Baker, not that Tom Baker. What do you think about this? Well, this is from Tom Baker, not the fourth Doctor, which I think they might be cousins of the others.

2:49Richard Osman:But also maybe not even the Tom Baker, not that Tom Baker who I know. So this is Tom Baker, not that Tom Baker. It's unclear, isn't it? This is Tom Baker, not that Tom Baker, not that Tom Baker. Yeah, you're going to like this one because it begins, I was watching the snooker world championships on the BBC. There we go, that's all I've been doing. And right in the middle of it, they cut away for, oh my God, Richard Osmond's House of Games. They did. Important as House of Games is, it felt pretty jarring timing given it was live sport and a fairly unusual drawn out frame. Got me wondering, how did broadcasters like the BBC actually decide when to pull the plug on live event coverage?

3:20Is it strictly schedule-driven no matter what's happening? Or is there supposed to be some editorial discretion in moments like that?

3:26Richard Osman:If I have a Venn diagram, it's the World Snooker Championships and House of Games. If there's anything designed to torment you, it's having to choose between those two babies. Yeah, exactly that. So here's what happened. And I spent a lot of last week having to answer questions about this already, but having to do it again. So the World Snooker had been on and they have morning session, afternoon session, evening session. The afternoon session starts at about 1, usually finishes at about 5. So when Wimbledon is on, for example, House of Games is off air because you know that Wimbledon is always, it plays across 6 o 'clock.

4:01Richard Osman:So they keep it on air for the whole time because Wimbledon is giving them enough coverage and the numbers are high enough that they have to leave it on. With the Snooker, they can't do that because, as I say, it runs from about 1 till 5. and you know the rating the people who watch snooker love it like me and the coverage on the BBC is absolutely impeccable but you don't take House of Games off air because nine times out of ten the snooker has finished in fact sometimes it will finish at like four and they just show you know flog it repeats so on this particular occasion it's a semi-final and it's a bizarre frame if people have seen it there was all sorts online about it that was the longest frame in the history of the World Snooker Championships at the Crucible took an hour It's like all the reds went over one pocket with the black in front of it.

4:47Richard Osman:So it was a very unusual frame. We used it against Mark Allen. So we could have a third circle of that Venn diagram. It's like unusual statistical events. Yeah, exactly. It was after the frame finished, Steve Davis said it was a disgrace to snooker. But everyone who watched it loved it. So there we go. Because it's unusual. You've never seen anything quite like it before. So we find ourselves in a situation where suddenly the snooker is going over at six o 'clock, which it never does, or very, very rarely does. And it's a frame which no one's ever seen before. No one's ever seen anything quite like it before.

5:20Richard Osman:So the absolute normal thing with the snooker is, and it has been for years and years and years, at six o 'clock, you go over to House of Games, and the snooker goes on to the Red Button all evening. It's on BBC Four. So every single ball of the entire tournament is on the BBC. It's on iPlayer, or it's on Red Button, or it's on the website. Well, lots of different ways to watch it. And so 559, they go, well, for the last 10 years, you've learned how to switch on the iPlayer. So this is now going on the red button, and we're going to House of Games. But this was the biggest rating frame of the whole year, before the final.

5:53Richard Osman:There's 1.4 million people were watching it. And that's a lot of people who don't normally watch Snooker and who didn't know that you can just turn on to the red button. And the red button wasn't quite working, all this kind of malarkey. So they switched off from the middle of this incredible frame, or the most boring frame in history, but certainly a lot of people were watching for House of Games. And not just House of Games, but a House of Games repeat. That's the perfect storm we find ourselves in there. If something extraordinary had been happening, absolutely they would have put House of Games on the red button.

6:20Richard Osman:But I think their thinking is, it's just like a frame in the semi-final. We don't quite know that this is going to go viral. And every single snooker fan knows where to watch the snooker on the BBC. So we'll send them off. And even, you know, there's 1.4 million people watching it. Everyone's going, oh my, but how can they switch off the highest rating thing? But then House of Games is getting like 1.8 million. So what are you going to do? And people who watch House of Games and have that routine would be beyond furious if you took it off. And in fact, lots of people who were watching the BBC on the red button were furious because the red button stayed on the snooker and they missed House of Games.

6:57Richard Osman:So, you know, I was looking at one of the House of Games fan stories on Facebook and they were losing their minds about it. So it's one of those things. Ordinarily, if you know as a channel, if you do have something like Wimbledon and you know roughly how much content you're going to have, it's very, very easy. You just, you know, you take Pointless off, you take House of Games off, you take those regular shows off. If it's the snooker, as someone was saying, they should just turn BBC2 onto the snooker channel for two weeks. Oh, that'll go down well. I mean, wouldn't it just? Something like the snooker, it just, it doesn't fill enough hours and it doesn't get enough viewers that you can just move everything out of the way.

7:32Richard Osman:It was a tough call, that one. For you, if you're two tribes, that's hard. Yeah, yeah. For me, it was particularly tough. But honestly, I was watching on the red button anyway, so I just kept watching the snooker because that's where you watch the snooker because you get to see all of it and you can switch between the tables and all of that stuff. So I think snooker fans were okay with it, but for people who were just going, oh my God, what is this crazy 100-minute long frame? They were furious that it was taken off for a repeat of a game show, which I get. but it's nothing to do with me all of my answers were nothing to do with me nothing to do with me yeah and yeah I don't even do the show anymore so speaking of which can I ask you what was the last episode like was it oh yeah so yeah I went up to Manchester last week and did yeah the last ever episode we brought back people who had been champions and then had won champion of champions so we did our first ever champion of champion of champions oh wonderful which is fun and people like Miles Jupp was on it a lot of people people who I knew I was going to have a laugh with.

8:33Richard Osman:It was really, yeah, it was lovely. And it was emotional. I love that crew so much. It was nice to be able to say thank you to all of them. And also the amazing producers there know me well enough not to spring any surprises on me. They knew I would just want a good solid week of quizzing. How many years has it been? Nine years. Yeah, like 850 episodes, something like that. It was lovely. And then I got to watch Michael hosting as well. And just seeing the same crew and that same amazing team just carrying on that show, which hopefully will go on forever and ever and ever. Yeah, it was really, really lovely.

9:06Richard Osman:I loved it. And I couldn't have had a better last week. So I was absolutely thrilled. And that'll air sometime later this year? September, I would have thought. Yeah, I would have thought mid-September, something like that. It'll be my last week and then into Michael's first week. We did a little skit as well for post-credits, just like a handover. I mean, it was just a little bit of business. Again, it's only a quiz show, so I wanted to mark it, but it's not like a new Pope. It's a big thing. A question for you, Marina, from Emily Cooper. Emily says, how should an actor react when they're getting memed on the internet?

9:45Richard Osman:Should they lean in, brackets Will Smith, say they hate them, brackets Demi Lovato, or pretend they don't have access to the internet, brackets Cillian Murphy? Cillian Murphy, yeah, the internet's boyfriend who always just says, you know I don't have a personal email he doesn't have a personal email how does he buy things from the shops that's the only reason you'd have one anyway do you need a personal email to buy things from the shops well you can't get your agent to do it so I'm just going on Amazon to get something I suppose you need an email address quite annoying if you're using but you don't have to answer an email you don't have to sort of no but you just need to type one in don't you all the time you don't have to say to Sainsbury's re my order I hope everything is going well.

10:27Richard Osman:And they reply, Killian, yeah, just packing it now. I just get my agents to do that anyway already. Good idea. So it's just somewhere I already am in a place. Yes, the actor memes, we all know them. Actually, even at the Oscars this year, Conan O 'Brien tried to get them to make one. I did think that was a bit like, okay, is it 2016? But I'm trying to get Leonardo DiCaprio, who's very often memed because he's got that, how would I describe it? Sort of like a subtle awkwardness and wryness, a kind of small expression. Gotcha. And where someone like Jennifer Lawrence is like, it's all up there on the screen.

10:57It's a bit, you know, she's very relatable kind of chaos or big expressions. Meryl Streep, very theatrical. She's got lots of good reactions. Ryan Gosling's got a specific thing. They're kind of, he's very good at like just the eyebrow raise or the imperceptible stuff. And for me, you know, Ben Affleck, what am I doing? What are we all doing? There's a sort of despair in the Affleck. Yeah, I've been told, I mean, I was talking to someone this week actually completely by coincidence. and they were saying that actors are being taught about meme face. Don't have resting meme face. Oh my God. You need resting natural face.

11:29We do know this because you know that when you are just in the audience at any award show, any reaction could end up just being clipped forever.

11:39Richard Osman:But I'm at the BAFTAs on Sunday. Yeah, we'll just have resting natural face. Listen, I'm going to be losing my 20th award in a row for that. So I will be, I am not going to have, my resting face is not going to be impressed. Okay, well, you could become a meme. When we were talking the other week about select committee hearings and things like that, it's very difficult, you know, to have to constantly be on and not be making any kind of face. I mean, I personally definitely couldn't do it. How should they handle them? I would say, unless it's bad, be grateful, is my short answer to this. You have said something emotionally readable that speaks to our culture and speaks to our times, really.

12:14I mean, you know, this is why, the reason I'm seeing a lot of Ben Affleck, like leaning against the door with a cigarette in his hand, With his eyes shut, looking absolutely despairing. I mean, you've said something that speaks to the times. And also, in an always-on culture, you don't even have to go out there and work. It's just constantly getting circulated.

12:32Richard Osman:It's a shame you're not monetizing it. It's a shame, but you're staying in the conversation and there's a trickle-down for sure. I would say to be glad. Obviously, unless it's really bad and you're doing something that's just, oh my God, why did I do that? And forever afterwards, it's being used. In general, though, these things are very easily emotionally readable and they're relatable. Otherwise, we wouldn't keep using them as proxy for our own reactions to things. And that's an actor's job. Yeah. And they have become a proxy. You couldn't have explained this to someone 20 years ago. You just couldn't have explained it.

13:02But now we use these to put our own emotions out in the world. So I would say it's great and lean in.

13:09Richard Osman:Shall we go for a little break? Let's go for a break.

13:17This episode is brought to you by Lloyds, who you can rely on to keep life running smoothly. Now, you know what isn't celebrated enough is the behind-the-scenes work that makes successful entertainment seem so smooth.

13:28Richard Osman:You know, you go onto any sort of set and there's the talent and everyone's, you know, having to run around after them. But the people having to run around after them are the runners. And there is not a single successful television show that isn't powered by brilliant runners. Whenever you hear a director or actor say, you know, we're all just one big happy family, I always think, yeah, and you're the children. and the people who are like running around are actually always the youngest people on set because runners are always really young. It's an absolute first job in the business. And the other key thing is if the runners are good, you don't notice them because nothing goes wrong.

14:00Richard Osman:And it's very similar to your bank. You just need them to be there when you need them. Well, like with the Lloyds app, you can check lots of handy things, little details, what payments you have coming up, what subscriptions you're paying for. It is this kind of helpful, smart stuff that makes 14 million people bank on Lloyds. And that's based on Lloyd's internal customer data from March 2026. But we just want to say thank you to all the runners and thank you to Lloyd's. Ready to soundtrack your summer? With Red Bull Summer All Day Play, you choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best.

14:33Are you a festival fanatic, a deep end DJ, a road dog or a trail mixer? Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track. Red Bull Summer All Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings. Visit redbull.com slash bright summer ahead to learn more. See you this summer.

14:53Richard Osman:Good sleep is everything. That's why Oli's Science Back Support is made with a blend of melatonin and L-theanine for both kiddos and grownups. So when your mind won't switch off, you've got something that can help. Erasing thoughts and restless nights won't stand a chance. Find Oli's sleep solutions for the whole family at Oli.com. That's O-L-L-Y dot com.

15:21welcome back everybody now as promised we've got a question uh about devil wears prada too

15:27Richard Osman:from andrew fletcher he says i'm sure more and more films now feature cameos heavily brackets devil wears prada too what's the logistical challenge of achieving things like this um now we thought because devil wears prada too is out right now and doing enormous business and does feature celebrity cameos. We asked your question, Andrew, to the director of The Devil Wears Prada 2, David Frankels. Well, Andrew, the logistical challenge of having all these cameos is scheduling them. You know, just getting everybody to show up on time. You know, we were lucky enough that so many people wanted to be a part of the movie.

16:07And, you know, we actually couldn't accommodate everybody who wanted to be in. But, yeah, just finding and finding the right spot. And, you know, and then, of course, a lot of them had never been in a movie before. So, you know, Donatello Versace didn't understand that you don't just shoot it once and then go to lunch.

16:31There's more than one shot and you have to do it over and over.

16:35Richard Osman:So, you know, there's different challenges with each one, but mostly scheduling. That's so interesting. and funnily enough from Tina Brown on her substack this week she is in a cameo in this movie and out in the Hamptons or something where Miranda Priestly obviously has a house Meryl Streep character there's a lunch taking place and Tina Brown's at it and Carl Swisher who's you know another American kind of commentator there's lots of people and Tina Brown describes the day and it's really like we all get picked up at four we're really excited because we've been the devil wears pride they've got to sit around it gets very very hot by about 11 o 'clock.

17:12They're sitting around this lunch table. They're having some kind of lobster dish. They're obviously not allowed to have it, but they definitely wouldn't want to eat it after a certain number of hours because it's got very, very hot. And it goes on. I think they finally get out of it at 8 p.m. So that was quite a long lunch, not in the old-fashioned sense. So I definitely think that managing all of... Those ones are quite difficult. And especially the ones I've seen, there's a Rory McIlroy. Again, why is Rory McIlroy in it? But anyway, in a crowd scene. And I thought that will have taken a while.

17:43Richard Osman:Rory McIlroy's in a crowd scene. Rory McIlroy's wife. A party, you know, a party. But a party scene, as we know, can take a really long time to do because people are doing the wrong thing in the background. It feels like a grand idea doing a cameo, but it's always, I would say, awful. It's like people talk about herding high-end cats, but all of these cats have got, I mean, like all cats, really, a number of views about their own status. Donatello Versace, I wonder how many times they told us they had to do it. Yeah, we're just going to do it one more time, actually. No, now I didn't... This coverage or that coverage.