"I'm A Celebrity" Booking Secrets

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2:26Hello and welcome to this episode of The Rest is Entertainment with me, Marina Hyde. And me, Richard Osman. Good day to you all. Good day, Marina. Good day to you. Good day, how formal this is. Good day to thee. If there's a me thinks in this podcast, I'm pulling the plug. That's it. It's one of the worst. Me thinks is so useful because if anyone ever says it on social media, you know you can immediately block them. Yeah. Block and report. Block and report. Yes. What are we going to be talking about this week? A number of things. We are going to be talking about Sky and ITV, who may be merging.

2:59Well, Sky's going to buy ITV, maybe. Yes. I mean, that's what I mean by merging. It's like I merged with Ingrid when we married. Well, I believe you... Yes. We all know I was bought out by a much more impressive company. We will talk about this entire deal via the prism of your marriage to Ingrid. Amazing. And what it all means. What it all means. We are going to talk about, speaking of Sky, they launched a TikTok channel specifically designed for women. How long did it last? For women's sports. For women's sports. It was born on a Thursday, Richard, and they read the last rites to it on a Sunday.

3:37What happened? So that's quite fun. And we're also going to talk, well, we're going to talk about I'm a Celebrity. We're going to talk about celebooking. I'm a Celebrity started last night. It's the 25th series of the ITV jungle-based format. Seems like more. Well, yes. I mean, it's quite interesting. Anyway, so I suppose that's quite relevant to what we're saying is I think more than 300 people have now gone into the jungle. If you're one of the people, we're going to talk about booking a talent show because this has come obviously right after Celebrity Traitors, which is not everyone's favourite act to follow, I'm sure.

4:12Yeah, it's tough. But booking these reality shows and how you do it is quite interesting. The mix that you need. The mix that you need. And as I say, when more than 300 people in the entertainment industry, sort of front-facing, have gone into the jungle, the pool is relatively small and it's quite interesting how you do it. But it is relatively small. So, for example, before we talk about someone who we believe was about to go in and now is not, let's talk about the people who are there. So when we talk about the gene pool around these shows, So Martin Kemp is there. Always happy to see on my screens.

4:45Yes. Now, what you're doing with that booking is he is a well-known, he's a very well-known face for all sorts of different things. You want a slightly older man, you've got to have one of those in the camp. Your dad knows who he is. He's great because his son, Roman Kemp, has already done the format about five or six years ago. Well, listen, I'll do the merry-go-round for you. So Martin Kemp has been on Celebrity Big Brother. He's been on Celebrity Gogglebox with Roman Kemp. He's been on 71 Degrees North, which was ITV's trip to the arts. with celebrities. He's done eight-go rallying with his wife, Shirley, which is a show that Noel Edmonds was also on.

5:18He has done Masked Singer with Shirley as well. Roman, his son, as you say, has already done I'm a Celebrity. Roman is currently on Celebrity Race Across the World. Someone else who was on Celebrity Race Across the World was Kelly Brook. Kelly Brook is now in I'm a Celebrity. Kelly Brook has also done Bake Off. She's done Masked Dancer and she's done Strictly. Who else has done Strictly in this current I'm a Celebrity lineup well eddie caddy has done strictly lisa riley has done strictly and alex scott has done strictly alex scott also won bear grills mission survive which is itv show that's probably closest to uh i'm a celebrity she won that there were only two series and the other series was what was you don't have to get baptized i don't think to be on i'm a celebrity exactly i'm joking you don't i'm sure you don't with bear grills it's not mandatory and the only other person to win uh bear grills mission survive was vogue williams who's also in i'm a celebrity so there are a lot of people have been around a lot and that's before we get to ruby wax who's done fame academy only fools and horses which was endermol's very short-lived uh celebrity show jumping show uh celebrity apprentice and master chef so i'm so sorry could you just take me back to only fools and horses only fools on horses only fools on horses yeah but actually yeah they were jumping over really really small that's not the height of the jumps actually isn't my primary preoccupation with the show concept yeah but amazing okay i'm trying to remember who else was on that It was quite something.

6:37They're very much hoping you forget. It didn't really trouble the scorers. But I will be exhuming the full passenger manifest. Sarah Ferguson was involved with it. That's cheating. Or perhaps we were going to do an American one and she was involved with that or something. It's really interesting. Back in the old days, if you did any of the sort of three big celebrity reality formats, I'm a Celebrity, Strictly, or Celebrity Big Brother, you couldn't do any of the others kind of thing. It was like, oh no, they've already done one. Now, as we've seen from so many different things, particularly in the US, where 100 % reality TV is a career and people just do all the different formats.

7:10You know, Jack Osborne on the first episode turned out to be quite good at cooking and no one else could cook. I've got Vimus Leprechaea that aired on Sunday night. And he said, just want to say that, you know, I came second on cooking with the stars or something like that. Yeah, exactly. And by the way, Tom Reid Wilson, who's about to go in as well, he won. He was only second on Britain's Best Home Cook. They've all been around. Two newcomers. They've got, as we've talked an awful lot about reality shows, making sure that you get that younger generation on. They've got H, the rapper, and they have got Angry Ginge, who actually came across rather well.

7:42Very well. I'm surprised to see him up for the trial. So there's some new blood. No, because he's got a huge fan base. So you think they just voted because it'd be funny and they want to see him do it? Every single other streamer. I don't think that's why they voted for Ruby Wax. Let's talk about Ruby Wax because that is a good booking. Oh yeah, that's a good booking. Because from second one, you think, oh, this is... Because the first half of the people they brought in yesterday, you're thinking, oh, this is okay. it's a little bit identical a little bit pleased with itself and then in the second half you think oh great because ruby wax comes in and absolutely she'll sing for her supper or lack of supper and she'll repeatedly and deliberately misunderstand that we're like why am i doing this why is this happening to me exactly of course she understands the format so i was talking to lots of celeb bookers and they they you know they said you know the whole thing is a pantomime and you do need you know you need your big names you need those names that that that people who don't really understand telly think are amazing bookings like you know you get jerry hall on strictly or you get noel or Nigel Farage I'm a celeb where people go oh okay it's a big name but actually those people tend to fall away and it's the Joe Marders of this world everybody says that you need the sort of marmalade droppers for show one and then afterwards the group dynamics kind of take over and you discover it's either a show about either it's a particularly conflict heavy series or it's one about comradeship or whatever and actually the bookings that the people are on much lower money you know I think the lowest paid ever was Georgia Toffolo from Made in Chelsea who won it.

9:01Sam Thompson won it. He won't have got Made in Chelsea is their cheap bookings sorry to say. And Jill Scott you know again so people sort of fall in love with the I saw a list of the salaries in The Sun and I was like I know those are wrong. Yeah. They were completely wrong. There's some people on huge amounts of money. A lot of people will do it for 20 and less. Yes. 20k and less. You're either doing it for 20k or you're doing it for a million. No one's doing it for a million this time. This time. I think people have done. In that lineup, there's no one where you go, oh my God, they've got who now?

9:33And a couple of years ago, Ant and Dec said, we are not having any more politicians on this show. After Farage, they said, you know what, this is not what we want to do. Well, because let's remind ourselves who they had. Much longer ago, actually, they had Nadine Doris, but that was under Cameron. Keisha Dugdale. Yeah. One big marmalade dropper was Matt Hancock, him going into it. That was a good one. And then Farage. and they said, and I think ITV said, right, you know, no more politicians. But, you know. Then a name will come along. Then someone will come out and they're pulling you back in.

10:05And this year, my understanding is Ed Davey was offered to them. They said, no, listen, we've said no politicians. Well, I think Ed Davey's people have got sort of, he's got a team of people who think of stunts that it might be helpful for Ed Davey to do. And I think they thought if you could give it to charity. But I tell you, yeah. There was another name that came along that I think ITV found impossible to say no to. It would have been impossible to say no to Angela Rayner going on it. Now, she got really quite far and her people in talks to do this. And, I mean, what a moment for her. I mean, if you thought last week was chaotic for Labour, try and imagine this week if Angela Rayner was now basically running a proxy leadership campaign.

10:49On ITV. By the medium of eating kangaroo testicles on ITV. prime time. I mean, take that West Street. So Angela Rayner, I think everyone knows who Angela Rayner is, the former deputy leader of the Labour Party, now no longer. And the Labour Party seem to be undergoing some sort of possible, you know, season four of succession. And she would be in line for that. So she's a very, very, very significant current political figure. Obviously, she wants to return to frontline politics. That's very clear. And in fact, having always said, I'd never want to be leader, she's now stopped even denying that.

11:23And I think, were she to do this, you are leaving during parliamentary time. I mean, again, it'd be fun seeing the fallout of the budget next week while she's eating, you know, emu anus. Yeah, which, by the way, we'll all be doing after the budget next week. So she obviously wishes to return to frontline politics. And there is a line that politicians can say about doing the show, even though you're leaving parliamentary time. And you could say, I don't think we're reaching ordinary people. We've got to go to where the people are. And this is what they all say, which is, I will just go where the eyeballs are.

11:52I will go and try and reach out because whatever it is. By the way, she would have been an absolutely terrific booking. I mean, that's the thing we talked to just now about your Jerry Halls and people like that, which are sort of, you know, like a one week wonder. Someone like Angela Rayner, you would get all of the publicity up front and she would be a great booking as well. But I think what happened is that obviously she does wish to return to frontline politics. It was made clear that were she to do something like this, there wouldn't be a way back. By the way, I don't think the people who would have made that clear are in a position to say who does or doesn't have a way back.

12:25Anyway, we've seen their briefing operations. So we'll have to wait and see. But yes, sadly, that booking did not occur. But this line-up makes more sense when you realise that... I think ITV felt that maybe this was going to happen. Well, I think they felt it got very far. There are always people who pull out genuinely big bookings, and they're often the ones they spent a lot of money. I remember there was Boris Becker a couple of years, maybe just after he got out. I can't remember his prison sentences. That's not like him to pull out. Oh my goodness, this is outrageous this morning. Is that your new catchphrase?

13:00Yeah, no, it's not. I'm trying it out and it didn't work. But yes, Colleen was obviously, Colleen McLaughlin was a huge, Colleen Rooney was a huge booking and they paid a million and a half. She's the highest paid ever. You've always got those people you might put in and that you would pay a lot for. Or by the way, I'm not saying that Angela Rayner was one of those people. No, no, no. That would be terrible to take that sort of, you know. Agreed. I think you kind of have to give it to charity. I think if she were going to do it, it would be for the profile. And maybe give it to charity. I don't know what you do.

13:28I mean, Hancock didn't give it to charity, obviously. Yeah, got paid 320 grand, gave reports, suggest 3 % of that to charity. The nature of this particular format is interesting because on something like Celebrity Traitors, it's really, I'm not saying it's easy to book for because nothing is easy to book for. it's very very difficult to book these shows but you don't have to talk about your personal life it's you're constantly talking about the game it's prestige there's no privations you get food but as you say more and more people are getting into this or just seeing it as a career so you're so used to just telling your stories and being that kind of anecdotalist yes and so you know the real kind of what you really want as a celeb booker again spoke to people who put lots of the big shows you what you do want someone who has not been on a show before but is going to be great that's what you want but though you know they are few and far between these days angela reina definitely would have been one of those people where you can do it is with people who are earlier in their careers like angry ging this rise of youtubers and twitchers and streamers and all this is that is incredible because they they come with a very very big fan base already but they have not done these shows before so they are new to most of your um linear tv audience so angry ging is is a new booking to a lot of people but he brings a lot of people with him so that's sort of a perfect thing as well.

14:45So yeah, and so because, you know, they, they, there's, there's sort of two types, there's the celeb bookers who are friends with every single celebrity in the world. And there are the celeb bookers who you sort of want, who are the people who just know all of the agents and who can pick up the phone to everybody. And, you know, I've done shows before with celeb bookers and they know every single thing about every single person who's going on that show. They know who's going to threaten to walk. They know who's going to be difficult. They know who's going to come good in week three when, you know, they've got a little bit more confidence they get all of that stuff and as you say when someone drops out at the last minute i mean that's it's like suddenly seeing a superhero because you go oh my god we've lost two of our main cast and the celeb book is going to overdrive like the next day they deliver you we should say that there are people who are going on i'm a celebrity who are not in there yet well vogue williams and tom reed wilson uh didn't go in on the first day and also will both be amazing tom reed wilson is a great great great booking because lots of people don't know him but everyone is going to fall in and may well be the most inexpensive person in that lineup i think i would guess i mean he is someone from that lineup who you would stick straight into celebrity traitors yeah yeah as you say you know there's it's been on 20 odd years and when it started it felt you know the the idea that it was stripped across the week was this extraordinary event and it made it feel unmissable and now just 20 years later it makes it feel missable i have to say is a great team behind it.

16:10I do think there's some great bookings there. Anton Deck are as amazing as ever, and their writer, Andy Milligan, is as amazing as ever. So it's still a treat coming up to Christmas. Those last-minute dropouts, and weirdly, on Strictly this year, you know, Danny Dyer, literally at the last minute, dropping out. She would have made a big difference, I think, to... She was injured rather than pull out at the last minute. Yeah, exactly. This line-up makes more sense if there are an Angela Rayner-type figure in there. And also some other quite big bookings as well. just sort of like a big celebrity.

16:40But, you know, people just do at the last minute kind of get cold feet. And then some people are just professional reality people. Now, I think it might be time for us to go to a break. Oh, let's do that.

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19:33Welcome back, everybody. Marina, there's a huge story right at the heart of British TV at the moment, a possible joining of forces of two of the major players. Very, very big news in the UK broadcast landscape and even beyond, which is that Sky, who by the way sponsored this show, are looking to buy ITV for a two billion at the moment, around about two billion it's being quoted as so itv studios are the people who make the television programs and can sell them around the world itv is essentially it's the channels yeah it's the network it's the it's the free to air public service broadcaster um itv that's five channels yeah and the streamer itvx yeah it's a place that makes all its money from advertising essentially whereas itv studios yes as much as one can so sky are owned by comcast although comcast don't particularly talk about sky because sky was bought for about 39 billion i think it was and they've seen quite a lot of that written down um in recent years but anyway they are the uk sky is being empowered to go for itv in terms of why basically both these businesses are in trouble and they will be helped by the scale of being together and they're both in trouble by the way just because they're in trouble for different reasons exactly sky is too small in pay tv basically and itv is too small in advertising so if you go to scale for scale and you can share lots of costs i mean sky's got various things it's got um but it's a platform yeah and it sells boxes and it sells bundling deals um they don't make huge amounts of tv um they have they've hung on to those kind of people who pay for sky sports and have it by the box and all of that sort of stuff and that is an extremely expensive you know that's the sort of real luxury consumer yeah but in terms of sort of content and services that they have um lots of things are going like all at the moment they have they have now tv which is their streaming service um but lots of things on now all the hbo stuff is going because max is open is going to start in the uk we'll come to that in a minute of like what all these things are doing so sky needs its own content really is a subscription service for in terms of itv we are in a declining advertising business this previously would not have been able to happen there's no way that the government would have allowed this to happen well they have turned it down before haven't they there were there were thoughts about this many years ago and they said no you would control too much of the british advertising market between the two of you so it's looked for different people lots of times but actually i think it always comes back to sky and i think that is probably the best fit for them that don't forget it doesn't mean they don't still have public service broadcasting obligations that license will carry on till 2034 and by the way itv1 will still be there and itv2 and itvx so it doesn't affect that particularly it would be a mashup of itv and sky stuff i think i think you would combine now tv which is their streaming service as i say with itvx so you'd have the sky tech which is slightly better um but then you would use itv's free content to upsell like a subscription tier there is a pay tier on itvx okay um so sky would still be a platform but they would have a much better service of their own and they would give prominence that service prominence is like it sounds so boring but it's one of the biggest issues in uk tv what is why mns will always rent a shop on the high street rather than a street two things down i mean you yeah you it's it's it's you go where people are you go where people are okay so it will and then they'll become a much bigger force in ad sales i think they probably wouldn't be as big as some people say they are but they would be like half the ad market then you're thinking okay this seems like a it is this is a if this happened this would be a huge remaking of uk's broadcast landscape and it wouldn't be the end of it because then you're going to say okay the other parts of the market they're going to need protection so if you're paramount and five uk tv channel four you're probably going to need to gang up together to say well we need to have a way of competing with them on ad sales every it makes sense at the moment for everyone to try and aggregate content because um you've then you've got bigger players who might be able to compete with american streamers this is the thing that's happened by the way isn't it is is for for many years people weren't really allowed to merge because in our market it would mean there was a player that was too big however because of the netflixes and what have you and more importantly because of youtube and because you know this argument that you can't control too much of the advertising take in british entertainment i mean that's not on linear tv anymore i mean it's somewhere completely different so actually linear tv is going to have to join together in order to have scale in order to be able to sell advertising in a way that it's online I saw some reports last week when we were talking about this and they were saying, oh, they control 70 % of the ad markets.

24:17Like, wake up. No, they don't. I mean, they control 70 % of 15%. Yeah, yeah. But then you've got to think, okay, kind of the big story is maybe the BBC would say, well, in all these negotiations with government, well, okay, if that's going to happen, then you have to let us merge with Channel 4 and you have to say public service broadcasters have to be given more prominence, like mandatory prominence. So what you could say is there has to be an iPlayer button on remote controls sold in our country. I mean, I know prominence is so weird. It's like because you'll see on your remote controls that I can press Netflix and press YouTube.

24:51Sorry, why can't I? If you allow certain things like this to happen in order for the market to be fair or to give value to people who kind of pay into these things, you might want to say we have to have an if, say, BBC and Channel 4 merge as one option. So you'd have to say we want prominence in that sense. Anyway, in terms of jobs, that is a significant thing and what people are thinking. Because obviously if two operations merge, ITV I think is quite lean. It's certainly probably leaner in some ways than Sky and compared to any American operation. It obviously doesn't even compare. In general, these are very difficult times, but people need scale.

25:27Even Comcast, they want an extra US, an outside of the US operation. and I think it's quite interesting this thing how it fits into the whole wider picture of what's going on we knew that there was going to have to be masses of M &A merger and acquisition activity in entertainment and actually you know a lot of those guys a lot of the big studio bosses a lot of the big media companies a lot of big they voted Trump really because they wanted to be allowed for this to happen but this has absolutely exploded in the past few weeks so you've got Larry Ellison or his son, you know, Kendall Ellison, David, real name, buying Paramount.

26:08But no sooner was the ink dry on that than they're saying, oh, we want to buy Warners. And Warners are now saying, well, okay, we are up for sale. And everyone, I think everyone thought the Ellisons will get it. Now we discover that Comcast are also looking at Warners seriously. And actually, amazingly, so are Netflix. and I mean I know there's one absolutely mega mega big power broker and kingmaker who thinks actually maybe Netflix will get warners because there's certain points around us is going to say I don't want to see this I don't want to keep this this I don't want to keep it happening I don't want my rivals to get too much bigger well there's enough for three big things at the top to be in the top three Netflix is at the top okay we can argue about YouTube but in terms of these kind of more traditional well certain sort of services you've got Netflix Disney and there's space for a third now maybe that's like paramount warners uh maybe it's something to do with comcast maybe everyone has got bits of these businesses that they want to fit into their things in the same way that with itv people thought oh well hang on in the uk other players thought well we could buy this and we could slot it into our our broadband services everyone is trying to get bits of these businesses because there is a big prize to be number three in that is kind of everyone's prize But then you also think, well, maybe the Ellisons won't get it.

27:26But equally, what if the Ellisons get TikTok in the US, which remember Trump said it has to be hived off from the kind of Chinese mothership. And he's talked very favorably about the Ellisons. Now, if they had Paramount and Warner's and TikTok in the US, then you've got a completely different type of company. And then they would be number three for definite. And they maybe could go further. Maybe they're quickly bigger than Disney. It's hard to say. But there are so many different people now, predators, just like walking around trying to get bits and fit it together with their business. And we're going to see much, much more of this.

28:00Just to try and be big enough. Everyone is trying to solve various puzzles and they've all got different missing pieces. But everyone wants bigger scale because you can't do anything without scale. So if I had to put some money on it, I would say that the Sky and ITV deal will go through, which, as you say, never would have occurred before. Never. Because the government will think it will have to. And at some point, BBC and Channel 4 has to happen. I know no one publicly is going to say that or ask for anything like that. But it just has to because it doesn't make any sense at all. Channel 4 doesn't make any sense.

28:30You're watching it happen now in real time, really, really quickly. And also, you know, ITV, I know there's resistance to all of this, but ITV might be worth half what it is in just a year's time. and there's just a sense that they have to go for all these different things we don't know what warner's coming to the uk max is going to launch in the uk and you're kind of thinking oh what they have well hang on a second tnt sports at the moment is a joint venture between bt and warner's but bt have said they might give all this there's so many this is so complicated it's ridiculous but they might give that if they give their sport to warner's and then they've got all of the hbo stuff and by the way that includes the new harry potter things that the full you know they're trying to build, Warners is trying to build up in the UK so everyone is trying to do these different things but this kind of teaming activity is making things and dominoes fall very very quickly in a way that they would just never have been able to in the past.

29:22Just think of it as everyone trying to do a land grab to try and solve their puzzles. Lots more things will happen but I think this particular thing will happen and it will change broadcasting the broadcasting landscape as we know it in the UK for definite. Yeah I would say five years time BBC and Channel 4 are the same thing streaming wise itb and now tv are the same thing streaming wise and there's a sort of hbo max is out there with lots of other things and then disney apple and disney apple and amazon still have their because they have other businesses you know bigger than broadcasting yeah they're able just to have their streamers as a as a lovely little add-on all the maps are being redrawn i think it's fair to that and you just keep watching because it's happening very very quickly Moving on to something else Sky related.

30:08Halo, which was Sky Sports' wars. Halo goodbye. Halo goodbye. Sky Sports' TikTok channel for young female fans. Sports fans. Yeah, sports fans. Described as the little sis, Sky Sports. Launched on Thursday. Their head of social said, I couldn't be prouder and more excited about this launch. Proud because this has been driven by the women on our team and embraced and supported by all across the business. Put out of its misery on Sunday. We've listened. We didn't get it right. As a result, we're stopping all activity on this account. I'm so proud. We're learning. Don't get me wrong. And we remain as committed as ever to creating spaces where fans feel included and inspired.

30:51Now, what the hell happened? Anatomy of a fall. Anatomy of a fall. It was a... They crucially said, it's quite interesting, it's not a women's sports account, but sports content through a female lens that means it's tapping into trends and content types which frankly wouldn't pop up on my fyp and applying to all sports so an fyp is the for you page yeah what did that that mission statement actually translate as um as i said we only had it for three days we knew it so little but it had um i mean there was a lot of content about barbies la boo boo's matcha pink and peach branding and lettering heart emojis what is this matcha thing by the way i keep reading about they kept mentioning matcha it's literally like some word they're vaguely aware is trending on the internet for various it's like a sort of you know it's you know what matcha is it's i know what matcha is yeah i just don't know what why i don't know when it became gendered yeah i mean that yes and i'd have called it matcha the day matcha the today would have been amazing but we it's we can't it's just it's dead to us now but and it was it has had an absolute deluge of opprobrium from people women saying this is so patronizing how can you i mean it was kind of mad there was a moment um where someone someone someone a woman uh said i can't believe you think this is what female sports fans like and the official halo account said can't believe you bought that energy okay I mean really embarrassing it's really interesting so in terms of um the matcha thing and how they would integrate such a concept in they had a clip from the um Bournemouth uh the Man City Bournemouth game um a couple of weeks ago where um Ray and Cherky did those incredible two assists for Harland and the way they explained that clip was how the matcha and hot girl walk combo hits it's like what is this internet word salad i'm whether you let's go through this again how the matcha and hot girl walk combo hits how the matcha and hot girl walk combo hits so ryan churkey is the matcha erling harland there is maybe or is it just like what's a hot girl walk hot girl walk is like it's like some sort of aspirational like going walk and think about your goals kind of meme okay which is what erling harlan does a lot i mean okay i am a chick i watched that game yeah yeah breaking um and this is bizarre like i this is not at all how i reacted to that to either of those moments it was you know it was a great fun game i was like anyone normal reacted and thought chelsea could have bought him two years ago but no no we would have had to sell yeah 37 of the other not very good players that we would have had for definite on the books at that time in that position but let's not got let's not get sidetracked I can't get into sidetracked by that now but they thought this is a way that you must talk about sports so I think well I thought I remember when Josh King's goal against Chelsea went in and was disallowed I thought about that that literally every single Fulham account is like is all hot girl walk the whole thing no one no one was like this is one of the great injustices in world football and world history in world history I would say I was like hot girl walk I was like pastel hearts when you don't get the labubu or when you've already got the labubu when you open the blind box yeah i said i i i think i tweeted can't believe vara bringing this energy so okay we'll never now know what slightly dated cultural references they had someone would have been having a brat winter there would you know some there was you they would have had to wait for a certain scoreline maybe to get the six seven meme in there i don't know but it would have been oh they definitely they've got six seven in without any question the second it goes to like three or something it goes god this is going to end up six seven easy i mean easy the second there's two early goals okay can i just say that all little sis content is annoying um and actually that there are people the people who do do this quite well where you're able to have a central brand and then you kind of spin it off into something different fashion and beauty can do this yeah i mean they are the most remorseless female targeted industries ever they've got basically centuries of experience of how to do this this wasn't it yeah it's so dramatic that they then pulled it and that they did it this badly and it i think we're always fascinated when things like this go this wrong because it reminded me a little bit about the um which i know we talked about um on the podcast when it happened the the jaguar advert where do you remember that That was basically this time last year when Jaguar had a new advert with no cars in it.