Inside The Oasis Reunion

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1:20Installed by independent contractors. Exclusions apply. See Lowe's.com for more details. Hello and welcome to this episode of The Rest is Entertainment with me, Marina Hyde. And me, Richard Osman. How are you, Marina? I am very well. How are you? Yeah, very well. I'm very excited about some of the things we're talking about this week. We have got quite a lot to talk about. We are talking inevitably about Oasis. Little story, heard of them? Yeah. The ticketing fiasco or Triumph, if you've somehow managed to get tickets. And also why they're doing it. I think the answer to which is certainly more interesting than it's been painted.

1:55Yes. We are also going to talk about toxic fandoms. Chapel Rhone has said that she has to set boundaries with her fans, which even in itself sparked a fan backlash. So we can talk about that and why things have changed. Obviously, there's always been fandoms, but why things have got so bad. And we're going to talk about Apple and how much money they lose on movies. So why they keep making movies and will they continue to do so? Right. With that, let's get into it. Oasis. you may have dimly been aware of the fact that they are reforming and they're going to play some concerts and on saturday the tickets finally went on sale they had a sort of pre-sale thing on the friday night and saturday morning at nine o 'clock was the queue for everyone to get in the queue the websites were crashing before they even went up people spend all day in queues and then one of the particularly controversial things if you were one of the people who finally got through they did this sort of dynamic pricing thing and tickets that were supposed to be 148 pounds are suddenly 355 pounds and you've got to sort of make the decision there or then and you've been waiting for 12 hours yeah and you've been waiting i mean let's get this clear this is kia starmer's second big crisis isn't it i think i mean this is huge hashtag starmer must resign well right now but if this story runs for 10 days then you can be sure people will be calling for it i'm only slightly joking but people were also being wrongly accused of being bots so they were being chucked off the cues for that i think if we knew in the old days like how long we would have to spend of our lives trying to prove to computers that we were not computers i mean how many traffic lights have you had to identify how many like their motorbikes in this square and there's what is like the bottom of the mudguard of the motorbike does that count as a motorbike i reckon i get like 10 of recaptures I can't do them.

3:42When you get one, though, the thrill. And what a buzz. Finally, I'm through. Yes. But you know what? The top of the bridge was a bridge. Yeah. Yes. Called it. Now, they have said, Oasis Management, you can only resell the tickets on Ticketmaster or Twickets at face value, to which I would say good luck with that. People seem to think that this is true, even though you can already see tickets priced at thousands of pounds on ViaGoGo and StubHub and things like that. And now Oasis Management have said they will be cancelled. This is unenforceable. What are they going to do? Have endless photographic ID for every person going into Wembley Stadium?

4:14Well, that's what they threaten to do, don't they? They always say this. They always say your tickets are not transferable. If you like the queue for tickets, you'll love this one. Yeah, and at the end, you have to watch Oasis. What a Saturday. I know your thoughts on this. No, listen, just before we get onto ticketing, this is my thoughts on the queue. I am a fan of Oasis, okay? I'm a man of a certain age. I get it. I was absolutely, I'm a huge fan of Noel Gallagher's songwriting and Liam Gallagher's voice and their general mood and spirit. Yeah. Okay, I like them as a group. And they're a band, Richard.

4:45They're a band. They are, and we talked about the death of bands. This is what you get with bands. They do break up. Adele can't break up with herself. That's true. Although it would be a great album. She is taking a huge break, by the way. Yeah. She has said, but we'll get onto that in toxic fandom, I suspect. Yeah, I just wouldn't be that fussed about going to see it. If I had to queue for like five minutes outside my local hour price, which is how you used to get tickets in the 90s. Even then I'd be like, do I really want to go and see two hours of Oasis? I just listen to the records. I don't get it.

5:12I don't get the absolute obsession with it. I think there's a mania that's happened. I think we all like Oasis, but I'm not sure we all love Oasis. Well, then they've done it brilliantly, haven't they? Oh, yeah. I think, okay, I think you can't create, there's a level of hype you can create. And they have actually done it quite cleverly. They were fortunate with a number of, like there's no news events. All the newspapers were running live blogs of the ticketing story, which tells you something about their good fortune in the news grid and the news calendar, because this was sort of front page news for everything.

5:41I want to talk a little bit about that dynamic pricing because it is bullshit. It's really awful. Because it sounds good, dynamic pricing. It does, yes. It's so dynamic in our pricing. That sounds like the sort of pricing that I would like. Companies like Uber do this. And what they say they do is that when demand is high, they put the prices up, which will hopefully draw more supply in the form of e.g. Uber drivers to the area to which I'd say, have you ever used Uber? But anyway, here the supply is fixed, right? Wembley doesn't get magically bigger just because lots of people want to go to it on a certain day.

6:13And by the way, I'm afraid to say that the band has agreed to this because you can't do this unless the band has agreed. So breaking, whilst Ticketmaster deserves some of your wraths, also so do Oasis Management. And Oasis. And Oasis, who will pretend they didn't know anything about it. Let's assume that Oasis management, however tough they might be, would find it hard to persuade both Liam and Noel to agree to something they didn't want to agree to. Yeah, but would you like some more money seems to be a fairly good question. But to queue all day for tickets and not know how much they cost. OK, this is obviously bullshit.

6:43And Lisa Nandy has... Resign. On the brink, Lisa Nandy, hanging on, has said we're going to do something about ticketing. Which, as you remember, we did talk about a little bit of this because Ticketmaster in the US are facing a massive antitrust thing. and the whole Taylor Swift debacle where something similar happened in America, where, by the way, there is no limit on reselling. You can do whatever you like. It's much more Wild West. It's much more Wild West in the Wild West. Now, we have to say that before the election, back in the spring, they said we're going to have it so that tickets can't be resold at more than 10 % above their face value.

7:15And then that was sort of watered down by the time of the manifesto, I think after administrations by a group, a lobby group called Coalition for Ticketing Fairness. Ah, the CTF. Yeah. Our friends at the CTF. Yeah, it's a little bit like calling your tobacco lobbying group the Coalition for Lung Health. These are the people who work on behalf of the ticketing industry. And anyway, the manifesto commitment was quite watered down. You can make it totally illegal in loads of European countries. You can only sell it at face value or just above to kind of cover any incidental costs you might have had.

7:46So I think they are going to have to do something like that because what the ticketing websites want to be is they don't want anyone to talk about them. What everyone has now done for two days is talk about these people and what they're like and what their practices are. They really want you to kind of be slightly pissed off at the end that you've got to pay a£5 fee or something and that's it. But they've been really front of centre the story. Well, I think that it's maybe fortunately for fans has put a lot of focus on those websites. It's a good thing that the government might have to deal with because it's not expensive.

8:15This is not an expensive policy and people will like it. This is a cheap win. This is a cheap win. So you can be sure they will try and do something about this. Interestingly, the whole thing about the ticket prices as well And, you know, as you say, Oasis being complicit in these things being kind of hiked up at the last minute. Everyone has been sharing, you know, ticket stubs from the 90s when they went to see Oasis for£22. So they went to Nebworth for£30 or they saw him at the electric ballroom for£7. And you think, yeah, that's because you were buying the albums in the 90s. And so they were making money.

8:46Now you're not buying the albums anymore. They literally they don't have any other way of making money from this music other than charging you a load of money for tickets, which is why all tickets for all bands are now so much more expensive because there is no other way of making money. So it's sort of that massive kind of overinflation of tours and of tickets and of merchandise to go with it comes from necessity. And having to own your own merchandise stores. I mean, that Taylor Swift one that was at Wembley, which, yeah, was so confusing getting in that you sort of felt you had to go through it.

9:18Like it was illegal. Yeah, it really was the sort of obverse of exit through the gift shop. You have to enter through the gift shop. Maybe there was another way in that I just didn't quite get it, but it seemed like we all had to trip through there. Anyway, so why are they doing it is the question. So that's ticketing, and there's going to be lots more about that, I suspect. Maybe they will legislate, but it's up front. We knew what was happening. Everyone's involved in it. The ticket people are involved in it. Oasis are involved in it. That's the price it costs to go and see this band if you really, really, really want to go and see it.

9:45Why are they doing it? The big thing is, oh, it's for money. yeah noel's had a divorce liam's had divorces you know they have you know these kind of lifestyles where they have to spend an awful lot of money newsflash oasis are loaded oasis are really really loaded um even liam is loaded he didn't write the songs okay so noel is really really really loaded so those first uh three albums he wrote every single song liam didn't write a thing until little james on standing on the shoulders of giants liam didn't write a thing the first two albums Gary Glitter makes more money from the publishing than Liam Gallagher does because he gets a co-writing credit on that hello well that's an insult for Noel's back pocket when it inevitably falls apart yeah well so Noel definitely doesn't need the money no okay because firstly he's got a lot already secondly at some point very very soon he'll be able to do the deal that Dylan has done and everyone's done where he sells the publishing rights and he'll be able to sell them for a quarter of a billion i mean i think it's 2025 that they're able to isn't aren't they it's really soon yeah yeah when better to do the tour well well i mean there is some truth in that so they don't need the money no doesn't really need to lend liam money no one's not sitting there thinking yeah listen i've got 250 million coming but poor liam our kid i think the reason they're going back on tour genuinely is because they want to be back in the conversation They had this incredible run in the 90s, an incredible run.

11:12I mean, they were so beyond huge. And there's four or five years of it when everyone wanted to see them, to be them, to meet them. Every single thing they said was reported. And that doesn't happen anymore to them. It's fascinating. I looked at the album charts last week. So the news had been all Oasis all week. So you think, OK, all the Oasis albums are going to smash back into the top 40. And actually, three of them did. So at number three, you've got Oasis's greatest hits. At number four, you've got What's the Story, Morning Glory. And at number five, you've got Definitely Maybe. Okay, so the two smash albums from the 90s and The Best Of.

11:48The next album in the chart was number 86. It was Be Here Now. Ogbry overplaced. Yeah. When we think of Oasis, we think of those two albums. Yeah. It's the truth. That's what we're thinking of. We think of a very particular point in time. We're thinking of a very small group of songs. And listen, they went on, they did other great songs and there's great stuff on other albums. But that's what we think about when we think about Oasis, that incredible supernova that they had and that incredible group of songs. And everything beyond that, we're not that interested in, is the truth. Well, you can see on Spotify that Fleetwood Mac is doing a million times better than you or whatever it is.

12:24Well, the Oasis stats on Spotify are interesting for two reasons. Firstly, this. So they get 27 million listens a month. I love that you know this because I don't know this. Not bad at all. But Radiohead get 28 million, for example. Killers get 28 million, Green Day 34 million, Chili Peppers 35 million, Arctic Monkeys 52 million, Coldplay 81 million. Okay, so Oasis on Spotify, they're big, not like super, super massive big, but they have that very, very concentrated group of songs that everyone went crazy for. Now the Spotify listens for their follow-up acts, so Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds, who I'm a fan of, 1.2 million listens a month.

13:03BDI, Liam Gadigas, banned 112 ,000 listens a month. So what they've done since Oasis doesn't put them where Oasis put them. They do not need the money. They really, really don't. Noel doesn't need money. Liam doesn't need money. They have got 90s money. They sold a lot of records. And they haven't wasted all of that cash. Listen, it's nice to have money. But you're so right. They want to be on stage every night and, like, slagging off Coldplay. And there'll be how many journalists? 100%. Well, instead of sitting on social media, will actually just be in the audiences trying to take down every single thing they say and get 14 news stories every single day.

13:37And actually, obviously, because of all the hype and everything, their Spotify numbers will go way up. Will go way up. Yeah, it's an addiction to the attention of the thing. And I don't mean that, I'm not saying they're narcissists or they're terrible people. It's just very, very natural that they've got to a sort of an age where they had that incredible cauldron, that huge crucible of massive, massive fame. Bit by bit, it went away. And now they're sitting at a point where they're going, oh yeah we do sort of nice corporate gigs don't we and like i release a record but then you know there's like a quote in the daily mirror but that's about it i just remember how it used to be where just everything we did you know we were followed everywhere and i know something about them as celebrities a bit like elton john who actually say things yes exactly they don't care and they say what they think um and again we'll come into this in toxic fandom there's a reason that many many people don't like to say anything that they think these days they will say what they think and there will be a bracing element to that, I'm sure.

14:30Keir Starmer will go, obviously. Oh, he has to go. Well, he gets freebies all the time. Oh, I see what you mean. I thought he was going to resign. Oh, yeah, he'll go. He'll go for this. If he hasn't gone for this, he will go to the concert. Sorry, yeah, you're right. I should have made that. I think he will go and then he will resign. And then he will, yeah. When it becomes apparent quite how much his ticket, how much his free ticket should have cost. Yeah, yes. Starmer must go. Nandy must follow. Nandy must follow. Did she get free tickets for Taylor? Oh, did she? Prince William went to Taylor Swift.

14:57Ooh. I tell you what, two other warring brothers. Hold on a minute. Hold on a minute. What if out into that box on that first night. Interesting. Keep talking. Slime light stealing like that you wouldn't believe come two other warring brothers. Two princes. Yeah. That's great. If I was Netflix, I'd be all over that documentary. Come on, just do it. Yeah. Noel, I guess Noel has to be the Prince William of the piece. Yes. I'm afraid he does. And Harry as Liam. Wow. Incredible that I haven't written this as a column. I've seen almost every other take in the whole world. Well, if you do write about that this week, then we have an answer to where do you get your ideas for your columns from.

15:40It was just that. But I think this is a great thing. I think it's such a lovely thing to have right in the middle of our culture. I think Oasis are a force for good. I think whatever you think about their music, they came along like an absolute rocket. and you know wrote these things that people fell in love with and now i love a mania get to have all of this but it's funny that it happened so quickly after taylor swift it's almost like our generation were like wait wait wait a minute we could do that yeah we'd love to do that yeah it's lovely in the same way that oasis are coming back i think because they want things to be like they used to be i think that's where people are going as well because they want things to be like they used to be but i genuinely honestly i'm just not a huge fan of going to gigs so for me it's a it's the greatest joy because on saturday morning it was just a spectator sport because it's genuinely what you know things about yourself that you know are different to other people yeah and you're like i absolutely get i understand why other people do that i understand the appeal of that this i'm like i don't know why you're getting your knickers in a twist over it for five hours just to go and see a gig it's just oasis and that's you know who i'm a fan of but you can just listen to the records and there will be loads of other gigs oh and they'll yeah and you know so you can get tickets to those um they'll obviously do north america and europe and you know and who you know, so much more.

16:56Yeah, of course they will. Unless they split up on the second night, so it's... Well, exactly. Do you know, funnily enough, we had a question for the question and answers edition about when one gets paid when one tours. And I think with Oasis in mind, because, you know, it's very possible they might not make it through the tour. And I've got... Can we answer that on Thursday? On Thursday. Okay, very good. I have a detailed answer to that in specific relation to Oasis and the slight risk that they might not make it all the way through the shows. But that's the thing. I think if they were desperate for money, then they would see the tour through to the bitter end.

17:25But you could absolutely see, because they love the drama of the thing. Yeah. That's perhaps one night when they're in Antwerp, and they think, we've done 47 shows, we've got six to go. I mean, do we really need to do those other six? Wouldn't it be more fun if we had a massive fight, and suddenly we're in the papers again for a year, and then we can reunite again in 15 years? Yeah. That's what I do, Antwerp. You heard it here first. But genuinely, this is one of those things I think is a good news story. I think it's a really lovely thing to be happening. It brings lots of energy, and good luck to the two of them as well.

17:53where they came from and what they did, what they achieved, and the joy they've given. I think it's one of those stories that is just, other than expensive, I think it's fun. No, it's lots of fun. Yeah, yeah. And we'll be talking about it more as it comes down the slope way. Thank you, Noel. Thank you, Liam. Okay. Right, shall we have a break, Richard? Oh, I think we should. At Sierra, discover great deals on top-brand workout gear, like high-quality walking shoes, which might lead to another discovery. 40 ,000 steps, baby! Who's on top now, Karen? You've taken the office step challenge a step too far.

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20:13Welcome back, everybody, from those dynamically priced ads. Marina Apple have been in the news this week. Yes. The latest Apple movie is Wolves, starring Brad Pitt and George Clooney, who are two obviously very big stars, stars as we used to know them. And it had its premiere, this movie, at the Venice Film Festival, which is kind of pretty prestigious. It had a whole red carpet thing. It was scheduled for a big, wide release. And just before the premiere, they said, yeah, they're going to put it out for a week. in extremely limited number of theatres. And then a week later, it's going straight onto Apple for streaming.

20:52So it's quite expensive. They were paid tens of millions of dollars each to do it. And this is of a piece with a lot of stuff that Apple have done, okay? Apple have been in the movie business for five years. Quite why they're in the movie business is interesting. One of the things about Apple that is interesting as a company compared to lots of other companies that people write about is that they're quite a black box. People don't fully understand what's in there, why the decisions are made. So this is an example. I mean, first of all, this is quite humiliating for its stars who have had to, and the director, John Watts, who did all the big Spider-Man ones recently, they had to say, oh, yeah, we're not going to theatres, but we're sort of cool about it, which they're obviously not, by the way, because stars want to be in theatres.

21:32Yeah, and directors really want to be in theatres. Really want to. What has said, I've made it for theatres. It's made to be seen in theatres. That's the point. When I'm shooting it, I'm shooting it for a cinema screen. I'm not shooting it for a home screen. And that's what they've been told all the way through. And, you know, if you're Clooney and Pitt, you're used to getting your way because you're Clooney and Pitt. But no one else wants to make your type of movie anymore. So Apple have looked like they have bottomless cash. Well, they are. They're like the world's biggest company. They're like Noel Gallagher.

21:59And you get theatrical release. So stars are like, yeah, they're like Noel Gallagher. We can go back to how it used to be. We can be paid huge amounts of money. We can have theatrical release. And also the other thing they did in order to slightly disrupt the market, they don't have development executives in the same way that any of us would understand them in the other Hollywood studios who are kind of going to get up in your grill as a creator and say they sort of let creators do what they want now are they otah friendly or otah indulgent that's unclear but they've had a run of not successful I mean you can't have bad box office if you're not in the box office so maybe Wolf's has been saved a humiliation well that's the thing I mean you look at the money they're spending and this is the crux of it this is why it's an interesting thing is is Killers of the Flower Moon, the Scorsese movie.

22:43They spent$200 million on. By a rough rule of thumb, you have to clear about three times that before you make a profit. So that would have to be$600 million. Because of marketing of theatrical release. Sorry, we should say that the reason that theatrical release has been pulled for this movie is because it is very expensive. Very expensive. And they're worried they won't make their money back on the theatrical release. So Killers of the Flower Moon, $200 million, needs to take about$600 million, made$157 million. which by the way is a perfectly good box office but not if you just spent 200 million making a film.

23:14Fly Me to the Moon which is the very recent one they did with Scarlett Johansson and Channing Tatum which is a very good movie as is good as The Flower Moon. They're making good films that was a 100 million budget, made 41 million. Argyle the Matthew Vaughan movie, these guys had hit movies before, again they say 200 million, I can't quite see how it's 200 million but that's certainly what they say. I can work out how that was. That made 96 million. So Apple are That was a huge flop, okay. And they've had a run of flops. And this is the thing with Wolves. So Apple are saying, well, we'll give you the money, so that's great.

23:49Obviously, we'll release them in the theatres if we want, but that's great. They've got to the point where Apple employees high up have said, we are worried about our exposure to public disappointment if we release a film in the cinema. So they finally got round to the point where they go, I mean, listen, 200 million to them is literally nothing. it's zero paying Brad Pitt and George Clooney 70 million between them is absolutely nothing to them but reputationally they're just going oh hold on so if we put this movie out in the cinema it gets reviewed everywhere and everyone says it's bad and then everyone sees the box office receipts and those are bad and that becomes a story well we don't want that we're happy to spend a billion pound a year but we don't want anyone having a go at us and that's what's happened here that's what they've taken Wolfe out of the cinema because they're like if we just put it on Apple then we spend all the money that we're very happy spending it because we like going to you know premieres and we like hanging out with actors which is why they spend a lot of money yeah but what we don't want is people saying we've made a bad film and actually if we don't show it to people in the cinema then nobody knows we made a bad i agree they're the world's biggest company and they think they should be with the world's biggest stars they massively care about prestige supposed quality things like that and stars love that because they've said oh we'll put you in theaters whatever agents love them and i'll tell you what this is an interesting aspect of it.

25:07Agents love them because these are movies that aren't really being made anymore by the major studios, which ding dong tells you something. And what agents can now still do with these things, because Apple don't have this huge infrastructure for making movies, they sell them a package. Now, packaging is something that, again, nostalgia. In the franchise era, this has been impossible. When you're packaging something, you say, we've got a package here. We represent the script writer. We represent the director and George and Brad want to star in it. You're getting paid all the times over. Yeah. And also, and by the way, if you're Apple, you're going, oh, great, then we'd have to then we don't have to do anything right it's all dealt with so this can be in the franchise era of filmmaking this has not been possible because the ip has been the star so with you know something like spider-man marvel and sony can turn around and say well we've just shown you that not any old three guys can play spider-man in fairly short order but you can see that they can so no you don't get to tell us who's going to direct this movie we will rent your star but that's it so agents have loved it for that reason and they've got paid but now agents having to turn around and say to their clients yeah you're not sorry george and brad you're not going to be in theaters don't worry the biggest movie by the way that apple has been involved with it by a long way is coming out next year and is the formula one movie with brad pitt in it there's no way that's not going to theaters but the other thing i'm going to say is that all these streamers they spent lots of money to acquire scale and to whatever and they could say it doesn't matter if it doesn't make a huge and i'm sort of slightly with this on killers as a flower moon it was an awards play they were nominated for a ton of stuff they won a ton of stuff that is so prestigious if they can make money back on streaming.

26:33That's marketing money for them. They're saying it makes Apple look good and their marketing budget is huge anyway, so why not spend it on that? That's worth it. Like Argyle, you know, Matthew Vaughan now says, oh, it's doing well on streaming. It's doing well on streaming on Apple TV +, okay, which accounts for a tiny fraction of viewership. Netflix, it makes sense. You put it in theatres for a week because you want it to have an awards, you want it to be eligible for awards or whatever it is, but you are going to make it back on streaming because you have built your audience. Netflix built a massive audience, So it makes sense for them to do these kind of things, except they're really out of theatrical release.