Is Strictly Going Alt-Right?

22:33Bore off. Oh, you obviously don't love your husband. Yeah. I love him so much. I'm divorcing him. But I don't think you can finesse a child just saying, screw you. Yeah, it's tricky. Listen, if anyone can, it's them. Shall we go to a break? And afterwards, we'll raise the tone with Real Housewives of London and a bit of Strictly as well. Yes, let's do that.

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24:46Welcome back, everybody. Now, last night, the first episode of Real Housewives of London dropped. You've seen it. I have seen it. I have to admit, I have not seen it. But it is an unbelievable franchise. I mean, the money it has made and the history of the thing. And I just thought I would like to hear what Marina thinks about Real Housewives. Well, it's sort of everything and nothing, like I said at the start. When they started this format, it started by Bravo. and there were two big shows out at the time, Desperate Housewives, which you might remember had Terry Hatcher and Eva Longoria and various other people.

25:18Which is a drama. Which is a drama, a sort of comedy drama. It was kind of camp and whatever. And then there was The O.C., which was a kind of teen drama epic for a couple of series. So the first one that came out was called The Real Housewives of Orange County. They thought, if we put these two things together, you're going to basically get the vibe. It was come up with by a guy who's made so much money. And this is what happens sometimes in TV. There was a guy called Scott Dunlop, and he was just at a dinner party. He lived in a gated community in Orange County. And he was there and just sort of, and everyone was sort of talking about getting their kids into college.

25:51And everyone was talking about how difficult it was when you had a maid who stole from you. And he was just like, this is sort of extraordinary. But I think people would love the soap opera of this. So he shot his own sizzle reel. He called it Behind the Gates. It was a gated community. Actually, one of the people in it became one of the Real Housewives as well. So he shot this thing, but it wasn't, you know, female dominated. it was just kind of this is what the kind of california middle class do bravo took it in looked at the success particularly of desperate housewives and just said let's just do the women there's you know and by the way almost all housewives are not housewives that's one of the great things we're gonna really come to that because my god this format has evolved and so scott dunlop will say look bravo were the ones they were kind of the geniuses that turned what i had bought them into this desperate housewives type of thing and so whatever happens with any of the many spinoffs of this show, and you can talk us through exactly what Real Housewives entails.

26:43Whenever it is shown anywhere, Scott Dunlop is sitting, I presume, behind even bigger gates. Gold gates. Literally, gold and diamond gates. Golden gates, exactly. If you haven't watched Real Housewives, briefly, it follows the lives of groups of women, friendship groups, both real and confected, in cities across the US and around the world. and there are about 40 iterations currently of Real Housewives. There are 11 in the US and there's 30 around the world, of which London is the newest one. Because we've had Cheshire here for ages, haven't we? Real Housewives of Cheshire. But London is the newest in the franchise.

27:23Up there in orderly age where lots of footballers live. London essentially gave us an excuse to talk about Real Housewives. Yeah. And there are super fans, you know, who will watch six or seven of the ongoing series concurrently, which ends up being about 20 hours of programming a week. It is a sort of defining characteristic for a lot of people. And we've seen everything. Lots of wine tosses, cancer storylines, cancer scams. Divorces. Everyone gets a tagline. There are now academic texts on this thing. And then at the end, there's a reunion show where they've seen how they've been portrayed. So right at the beginning of every series, they're almost sort of lined up like it's kind of sky sports football.

28:02And, you know, there's almost like a squad picture with the biggest characters in the middle. They all have their little tagline. Lisa Vanderpump is my favourite. She's got a dog rescue centre. She said, I love dogs, not so keen on bitches. I mean, it is amazing anyhow. So the vibe of it has definitely evolved and we'll come to that. But remember, reality TV, when this started, it's like right back in 2006 or whatever it is, it's unscripted drama. and what they do with that is they create recognisable narrative beats so it's all working up to in episode one of the London one as an example it's all working up to a big party on International Women's Day soiree as they call it you can imagine how it turns out everyone knows that everyone knows that the cameras are on them nowadays as in the whole of society knows that no one can be unsolved conscious anymore on film yeah viewers know I tell you the people who don't know and that's people of our generation who still go but it's all fake nobody who's watching this is thinking that we're watching like an Attenborough documentary.

29:03No, but there are moments of authenticity and they always really pop and people are like, oh wow, that was incredible. She couldn't hide that. So it's sort of a soap opera mixed with reality. And as I say, they've had every possible storyline within them. And when they started doing it on Bravo, you know how people say that sport is war by other means? This was sort of sport by other means. This was aimed at women and gay men. It really reminds me of sport. Yeah, it's something you can become obsessed with that doesn't in any meaningful sense matter. Goodies, baddies, turnarounds, all sorts, yeah.

29:37Drama, yeah, all of it. Lots of feminists absolutely hate it. And Gloria Steinem was like, this is disgusting. They pit women against women. It's so retro. And then she turned up in Real Housewives of Hudson Valley. That was really weird. That was a real vault fast, wasn't it? But other fans, by the way, real fans, Rihanna, Michelle Obama, Tilda Swinton. I mean, it's many comedy writers I know because of course, you know, these moments of heightened reality or fake reality. Anyway, the London one, there's however many women they're following, sort of six women, just as Pracy, if you haven't watched it, which you won't have, you know, you're watching people shouting at their housekeepers, is my makeup too much?

30:16They tell you who they are. They know that they have to tell you who they are because you've only got a little bit of screen time. So you have to say, I'm like Marmite, people are going to love me or hate me. Or I'm never or not. I'm never fake. I'm never non-authentic. I always say it how it is. They tell you they don't even work. And you're thinking, but you are working because someone's come to your house. You're on, you know, Real Housewives. You really want a product line. You want to be an influencer. You are working. They are all on the make. This is the hidden reality behind the whole thing.

30:43In the same way with WWF, you go in, you can be a heel, a good guy, whatever it is. But the more an audience likes you, the more likely you are to be in the next season of WWF. and the more likely you sort of move up that route. And the subtext to every single franchise of Real Housewives is they all want to be on the next series of Real Housewives. So they have to be the most housewife-y. They have to be because there is relegation and promotion in these things. You will get people who will sort of come in tangentially and you're kind of going, oh, you're going to be a housewife next series. Who the hell are you?

31:15Which means we're losing somebody from this group. They get paid about, I mean, different people get paid different things, but about half a million dollars for a series. They get half of it up front and they get half of it after every single series has a reunion show at the end where they all sit and chat and talk over the highlights of the series. Because then they've seen the edit. Yes, exactly. And that's when they get the other half of their money. And that's become so iconic, the reunion show, that when all of Trump's administration were caught on that signal chat about bombing the Hooties, Andy Cohen, who hosts the union shows, literally went on social media to say, please let me host the reunion.

31:49Because the whole point is, everything's like Real Housewives. Yeah. Yeah, Andy Cohen's amazing. This is a sidebar again. He's amazing. He was a bravo executive, really. Yeah. And now he does all the reunion shows. He does all the what are we watching type shows and is absolutely like a god across that universe of things. And he is, listen, you know, I don't approve of executives becoming TV presenters, but he is really, if there's a king of the Real Housewives universe, there are many, many queens. But certainly not only the husbands. Some of the wettest men you'll ever see. I mean, the two on the episode one of the London one, you see only two of the husbands who I think are probably the two wetest men in London.

32:26I've never seen anything like it. But that's the joy of the thing as well, because you think, I mean, the husbands have all sort of had to say, okay, and the kids have had to say, okay, we'll do it. And they've all got their different reasons for doing it. And again, that's stuff that you can sit at home and you can discuss. You know, behind the fact that a lot of it is faked and you can see it's faked is reality. And that's how people are watching. People are watching the reality behind the fake reality. I agree. it's really hard to explain it but they are these kind of fictional archetypes to some extent and some people think they're like Edith Wharton characters one of them said once oh I think it's like Andy Warhol's factory you know the idea of these players that come in and out it's very interesting because I think probably it is I mean I can't think of anywhere else it is the leading manner in which middle-aged female friendship or frenemyship or social hierarchies are interrogated by our culture.

33:23I mean, if you think of something that dominant, that there's, as I say, 40 iterations of it happening right now, this is how we understand middle-aged female friendship in lots of ways. And when you watch, I mean, watch the London one and you'd be like, oh my God, then that's the most depressing thing in the world. But actually, as you say, you have to strip away the fake reality and then you'll see behind it that there are people who are looking for love. There are people who clearly are much more strivy, much more strivy. They're not as rich as the other ones. You know, the thing about working, because of course the whole point was they don't work, but they are working because they work on the show and it's a huge amount of filming and all of that sort of stuff.

33:59And some of them have tried to unionize. Some of them have talked about labor practices. I mean, it's become so interesting. But the whole point of it is that there are some, there was like Bethany Frankel in the New York one. She was a real sort of striver. And she would sort of hiss at other ones, I actually work for a living. And it's become this thing where they're all trying to do something. They've all got some edge because whilst it might have been fun to talk about women in a gated community who supposedly do nothing at the start, it has evolved with the times and with the economy and with all sorts of things that have happened in our world.

34:34And so now everybody is trying to make it. There's one that's a really interesting one, Teresa Giuducci, who was on the, I think she was on the Jersey one. And she was really rich at the start and she would buy, you know, loads of furniture, all this sort of stuff. and then actually several seasons later she always served good drama which is why she's still on but you know they'd lost all their money she was having she was out there as the breadwinner she was teaching her daughters to make stuff for their cake for her cake business or whatever it is there's a woman with a cake business in the London one and you get the feeling that she's not as rich as some of the other ones and they're all you know otherwise there's lots of things the tropes are all the same you know those sort of grim walk-in handbag closets I mean no thank you the neon wall signs or that sort of neon wall signs That's the thing that, I mean, you see that in every episode of Real Housewives, but you see that in every episode of Escape to the Country as well.

35:24The neon wall sign is the... It brings everyone together. Yeah, it's the worst. But there's one called Panthea. Panthea? Panthea, yeah. Like Panthea Turner. Yeah, Panthea Turner. Panthea Turner. Panthea in this one. But she knows instinctively, she more than any of them knows that she must retain her position, as you say. so she knows that what she's going to have to do for the International Women's Day Party is turn up late, immediately start an argument, like immediately. Like she literally is saying it as she's getting her coat off and she knows how to behave like a housewife. So as you say, the level of artifice has become in such a way that, but no one minds that anymore because that's all we have.

36:04All of our culture is assimilation, so what's the difference? But it is, and again, for anyone of, you know, that whole generation who were born after Big Brother, it is easy to watch those things and go, So, oh, but I mean, surely you can see that that's set up. And yes, the point would be, they can see that was set up. They absolutely can. In the same way, they know that wrestling is fixed, right? They know wrestling is fixed, but they also know behind the events that you see on television, there are real human beings, all fighting for contracts, all making money, all of whom have real friendships and not real friendships.

36:33And you can attempt to decode what the reality is by looking at the non-reality. And that's what I find fascinating. It's drama in which you are not involved. It's like, oh my God, this enormous drama just exploded on my friendship WhatsApp group. Except it didn't. I can just walk away from this anytime I want. It's interesting how many people say, oh, I already got into it in the pandemic. Or when my dad died, I started watching it. So many people come to it at a time of personal trouble because it's escapist. But there's also something about it. Maybe when we're going through those dark times, what we want is these kind of grim, as in G-R-I-M-M as well as the other one, fairy tale archetypes.

37:11But it's sort of aspirational glamour and relatable heartache at the same time. They always try to make it not aspirational in a weird way. It's so rich and they've got all this money, money, money. They talk about money incessantly in such a ghastly way. But what you're supposed to think is, you're supposed to see that it's a flawed and unsatisfying world. And you always have been. And that's the actual concept. And yet everyone aspires to be honest. So that's what I mean by aspirational. It's not aspirational as in, I would like to live the life that is being shown on screen. It is aspirational as in, I would like to be a real housewife.

37:49Oh my God, that's one of my anxiety dreams. No, I wouldn't. But yes, I know what you mean. But, and we see it and it's absolutely led to all sorts of things, Made in Chelsea, Anywhere's Essex, all of this kind of stuff, Below Deck. All of these shows, there is a fake reality to them. But because we don't just watch television passively now, because every single time we watch a television program, we could follow every single one of these people on Instagram. okay we can see what it is they're doing we can find out what the truth is behind the fake truth that we're seeing and that's a fun game for people that's really really compelling for people but i just i just have to reiterate nobody is watching this thinking i am watching reality but they are watching reality but it's a reality that they will find from lots of different places i totally agree with you and i think that there's something very as i say like the way we've been talking about it it's so obviously means nothing and yet it means everything it's really hard to I've heard a lot of that today.

38:40I know we have. But if you think about this show, more than probably anything else, is one of the most GIF-memed things on the planet. If you ever see a meme or a GIF and you don't know where it's from, it's from Real Housewives. Without any question. So what does it say about our particular era, our cultural moment, that this show, more than anything else, is the one to which people go for their little quick online reaction things, and it's become a sort of form of lexicography all of itself. I think that's really interesting and that those women create these moments that then just flutter off and mean something in your WhatsApp group or when we're talking about politics.

39:21It's really interesting. When I started writing about politics in a different way, when I actually think I've sort of found my voice writing about politics in some ways, is when I thought I'm no longer going to write about politics in the way that I've tried to before, which is to do it quite seriously and try and copy lots of men who wrote about it quite seriously and actually always slightly looked down on you because you didn't know something that happened with the Liberal Democrats in, you know, 1989. And then I thought, but actually, I just want to talk about it in terms of pop culture and filter it through that particular prism because I think everyone understands that.

39:50And also it's more fun and that's how we talk and that's how we live now. And it's a much more fun way of talking about these things. And I think cut through much more with people than anything I've been doing before, purely because of that. And I think about these things all the time. I mean, the idea that the first thought of so many people when that Yemen signal chat was released was, oh my God, it's the Real Housewives, says something about the cultural impact of a show that, as I say, is everything and nothing. Yeah, and I think, you know, what reality is is going to become increasingly important in the years to come because of AI and all that kind of stuff and authenticity.

40:27And I think we always look at it the wrong way. And I think the success of Real Housewives is exactly the same as the success of wrestling is we are absolutely in on it we understand that we're not being shown reality we understand that we are measuring people against reality and that you know i think this generation i do think when we panic a lot about ai and kind of deep fakes and all this kind of stuff and we should but there is also a number of generations now who are much wiser than us when it comes to passing what happens in culture and understanding what they're being told to believe, what they're being told, wink, wink, to believe, and what is actually happening.

41:06And so I think, weirdly, things like The Real Housewives have given whole generations a toolkit to survive in the post-truth era. Bloody hell, we're really... Bloody hell, I mean, really, okay. I mean, literally, all we talked about are the Beckhams and Real Housewives. You'd think we're seeing this arrestous philosophy. Yeah. I wish I could say we've got something highbrow to finish on, but we're going to talk about... I don't. I'm sure we haven't. Who's going to win Strictly? Tell me who's going to win Strictly, Richard. So everyone has been announced now. I'm just going to go through people who I think we might have an opinion on, who listeners might have an opinion on as well.

41:40The first of whom I have to mention, because he is a hero of both of ours and a hero of children and adults throughout the land, is Nitro from Gladiators. Harry Akin Zarete is taken to the ballroom. I'm so happy he's doing it. Obviously, it won't be as important in his life as bearing me on his shoulder into the Royal Albert Whore. However. Yeah, that was his absolute highlight. Oh my God. He's the nicest person. He's absolutely terrific. And he had an injury. So I'm really glad he hasn't got an injury. Yeah. And he can do it now. Because I think they were planning to have him on last year. So do I, yeah.

42:12And he was injured because he did the special, the Christmas special. I know that. But yeah, he's coming on. People will, I don't know if he can dance, but people will absolutely love him. I literally love him. He's wonderful. He's wonderful. it's just that thing of whether people still like whenever we have gladiators on house of games you know people always oh they should be in gladiator thing you should call them fire or nitro and i've always said you know what we'll just we'll just i'll i'm you know i'll mention that they're gladiators every now and again but you know it's it's seeing him as himself it's like seeing matt morseau who's legend on um what i lie to you and stuff like it's you know it's it's fun to see these people when they've got a personality and he really has got a personality so he i think is going to be great i'm going to tell you who's going to win when i get to the end of all of this.

42:54As I say, I'm not going to go through everyone. Danny Dyer, junior, is on. D-A-N-I. D-A-N-I. But it means, of course, that we'll be seeing Danny Dyer, senior, in the audience. And that's almost as important sometimes than Strictly. He'll have a lot of views about having to sit there for seven hours every Saturday. I mean, this is the thing they never tell you. That's not the most fun show. He won't keep it under his hat, I don't think. There is no way he's sticking around for the whole thing. I would say now to the Strictly directors, get your cutaways. Cutaways in early. while you can because he will be in the car home by the time Chris Robshaw is on Chris Robshaw the England rugby captain former England rugby captain Karen Carney the former lioness now the pundit she's on I think people are going to like Karen Carney it's always good to have a lioness on the show and it's fascinating thinking about how Strictly Bookers kind of work their way through things you know you need your kind of temp pulse someone like Nitro is great because he's gladiators everyone knows that Danny Dyer everybody from a certain demographic understands that anyone who likes the kind of the more successful reality shows knows danny dyer then you do have people like karen carney and chris robshaw for sports fans stephan dennis is on for those of our generation paul robertson from neighbors uh don't it make you feel good yeah if you can essentially if you know how the hook to don't it make you feel good goes in your head if you're in your car now on your dog walk and you are singing that then you are going to be voting for stephan dennis um some interesting ones eddie goldstein who is the model with dan syndrome she's been on the cover of british vogue lavoire the drag queen is coming on to be an interesting one who's coming on is thomas skinner this is this is where i think for controversy yes it has been i mean that's really why we're talking about it because i wanted to talk about it i think it's interesting so thomas skinner is that guy the sort of cockney wide boy he says bosh all the time he was first on the apprentice and now it is his social media is full of things about, you know, knife crime and all sorts of things.

44:51So he has... And grinds that stuff. He's always up in the morning doing, you know, I'm up there ready. Exactly. They're just making content really, aren't they? Exactly that. So it's an interesting one that because, as you say, kind of the Strictly diehards up in arms that this person is on, but Strictly has always been, you know, has always prided itself on being diverse and inclusive. And it's done such incredible, genuinely, some of the best moments of TV in the last five years have been extraordinary things they've done with Rose Aileen Ellis and Chris McCausland and stuff like that. But it seems that the inclusivity has stopped for certain people when it comes to booking someone like Thomas Skinner, which is, and I make no comment on that other than say, it's interesting.

45:35Okay, I'll make a comment on it. Great, I knew you would. This booking, I mean, you'd think they'd want a quiet life after the couple of years they've had with all the drama about them. This is not going to give them that. No, this is not going to give them that. It's like they've imported the culture war into Strictly. I have to say, when I see people describing this guy as far right, I don't know, he's slightly passed me by it. I don't know a lot of stuff about him. And like a fascist. I do wish people would use these words correctly. But anyhow, I saw he went to a barbecue with J.D. Vance. I mean, J.D.

46:08Vance, like it or not, and I don't love it, is the vice president of the United States. That's a hell of a guess list. First of all, our research, when we did that more in common polling, and it found that Strictly was the show, the big primetime show, you know, that skewed the audience skewed most right wing. That's correct. Okay, so I do think that we are seeing across the board, and this is in terms of like people who were hired to be pundits on news channels, all sorts of things, there is a correction against the sort of quite prescribed certainties of the past decade. And you can see that people are thinking there's been some sort of vibe shift.

46:42We don't have to have, we're not going to do everything in the exact same way as we do it. Everyone's just like a sort of liberally approved person to go on TV shows, spouting a form of orthodoxy that actually everyone really agrees with. You know, he's still going to be dancing. He's not going to be, I don't know. I think it's quite interesting. I think we're seeing corrections and I'm interested that they would. I can imagine the meeting that went on where he was okayed. And I do think culturally, It's probably good to have Thomas Skinner on a show where there is a drag queen and there is a Down syndrome model.

47:16I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to have him on that show in that group of people. We're allowed to see these people on television. We're allowed to have them mix with a group of other people. The more you entrench somebody and the only people they can hang out with are J.D. Vance. That's when we have a problem in our culture. The problem in our culture is not that we're all too similar to each other. is we've absolutely siloed everybody. And Strictly has been unbelievably good at showing shifts in attitude, shifts in society, you know, just showing, not telling, always, always, always.

47:52And I think that it's not crazy. They've lent into the vibe shift. They've lent into the vibe shift. And listen, we may be in the same way that people thought it was a good idea having Donald Trump on The Apprentice. You know, maybe in five years' time, we'll all say, oh my God, it started with Strictly. Like, you know, Boris Johnson doing Have I Got News For You? said that was a you know a great idea and maybe you know we'll say why on earth did they do that but I do think it's a booking that is controversial but it'd be better if we lived in a world in which it wasn't controversial and we could get this group of 15 people and we could see their differences that we can see their similarities and we could see some empathy from everybody but it's a listen I get it I get why people are exercised I'm sure you will but people I'm sure that we will see those things that you've just said, but I do think that people will work really hard to look for controversy simply because you can write news stories about it.

48:45It will be an incredibly noisy B-plot to the entire series as long as he remains in, and after that will be a conspiracy as to how he was voted out. Yeah, certainly if I were a national newspaper or an online commentator, I'd be rubbing my hands with glee thinking, great, I can use this to divide people. And my hope is maybe you can use things like this to unite people, because there's an awful lot of people in this country who disagree with each other. And that used to be okay. And if anyone can ever fix anything that's wrong with our country, it's strictly. This might be a step too far for them.

49:21But I think it's a very, very 2025 move to make. I will say that. I do think it's brave. I do think it's probably in our culture probably quite a good thing to say we're allowed to have someone on who we fundamentally disagree with on the show we really really are quite apart from uh him if we move on to other people George Clark the YouTuber is on George Clarky yeah um who you know has like x million I mean whenever they talk about YouTubers they all they say is how many million followers but he he seems to have a lot his his dad is managing director of Aardman Animations Oh, really? So he's one of the few people who absolutely bridges the gap between KSI, because he works with KSI, and Wallace and Gromit.

50:01So he's absolutely, he's making money out of them both. George Clarkie, they call him. Again, you know, it's fascinating to see how that works. Alex Kingston, that's a classy booking, I would say. And Vicky Patterson, who I think will be great. People will absolutely love her if you're going to put a bet on her. If she can dance, she's a shoo-in. I don't know if she can. Ross King. Ooh. It's on Ross King. He always does the Hollywood Report on the rain. I love Ross King and people who know him always he's a trooper is he the other kind of trooper we'll have to see we'll have to see him once he gets his shoes on is he a super trooper but he'll be fun to watch but I'm throwing all my weight behind Christian Nairn who is the Irish DJ but also is Hodor in Game of Thrones because I would never do strictly anyway I always say I never have time to do all the training and have the affair but Christian they always think at 6 '7 I'd be too tall to do it Christian Nairn is 6 '10 that's the tallest ever Strictly contestant, six foot ten Christian there.

50:54So I'm going to be cheering him on on behalf of all the tall guys everywhere. Face turned up to him. All the tall guys unable to dance everywhere. Christian, I'm behind you. Or, you know, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbank. But I do think that Thomas Skinner thing, I think, is we've talked a lot about sociologically and philosophically interesting things today. Yes, we have. And I think that is another one. I think we just have to sit and let it be and have a little think about where our culture is and why it is where it is and whether this is the worst thing that's ever happened or not. Of course it's not.

51:26And perhaps it's not exactly. Can Strictly hold its fragile coalition together of viewers? I think they'll manage. I think they will. I think they will manage. It skews, as I say, it used to skew Tory, now skews Barry, Reform, Strictly. So it's, you know, I think that's an acceptable booking. I really do. Richard, most importantly, because I value this, who do you think is going to win? I think if Eddie Goldstein or Vicky Pattinson can dance, I think they will be the favourites. But I think without that information, Vicky says she can't dance, but often they say they can't dance. But I'm going to take her to her word.

52:02I would say Danny Dyer. Any recommendations, Richard? I'm going to recommend it. I always love it when a new sports documentary comes along on Netflix. And SEC, Any Given Saturday, is my recommendation. It essentially follows a season in the SEC, which is kind of the universities of the South. you know florida and all around there and it's just i love those things so much i love them because in the same way as you know real housewives they introduce me to people that uh i don't know and lifestyles i don't know but also because it's american sport i don't know what happens i have no idea who wins and i don't really know who these incredible coaches are who are getting kind of 18 million dollars a year to coach a university football team and i don't know who these players are who are you know heading off to the um nfl to be on multi-million pound contracts so i'm literally just watching a group of people that i'm just getting interested in with no idea dear what's going to happen.

52:49Well, thank you so much for that and for the whole Lowbrow show, Richard. That was fun, wasn't it? We will raise the tone. Forgive us, everyone. No, I loved it. Yeah, I loved it as well. We will be doing a Q &A episode as always on Thursday. And speaking of lowering the tone, for our members, for our bonus episode, we are doing the whole story of Studio 54, the legendary New York nightclub that burnt so brightly for such a short time. Anyway, that's for our members. if you want to sign up it's the rest is entertainment.com and for everyone else we'll see you on Thursday see you on Thursday

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