Is This The Best TV Show Of The Year?

22:25And Alex Lam, who is his partner at this company called Happy Prince, who was the story editor of EastEnders. No matter how many jobs he'd gone to, he'd always written about like, there's only chance of adapting Jilly Cooper. So she was like, okay, here's a kindred spirit. Anyway, they somehow decide that they're going to do it and Jilly's on board. So what they all did was that they, and bear in mind, so they had a first writer's room. They all went to a stay in a hotel in the Cotswolds. And I realised it sounded amazing. Can I say, by the way, at this point, lots and lots of people buy rights to books.

22:52Lots of people go, oh my God, I'd love to, I love that book. Lots of people say, oh, I know there's a producer. Almost every single project at that point either collapses or goes ahead and is bad. It's very, very, very hard to do a proper, decent adaptation when there's so many stakeholders, as when the author is involved, when you're involved, when, you know, the teenage you remember something, when someone else, it's very, very hard to keep a train like that on the tracks. I 100 % agree. And she, but she did also think it was interesting, Felicity, that there was someone who'd sold that many millions of copies because Jilly Cooper's books have sold so many millions of copies, but she'd been sort of underexploited as a kind of screen property.

23:28Anyway, and they really want Laura Wade to be their lead writer. Now, Laura Wade's brilliant. They think she's really good at writing about class, but not actually writing about class in a sort of capital letters way. She did Posh, a brilliant play at the Ron Court, Home I'm Darling, which was a really good theatrical comedy, and it starred Katherine Parkinson, who is in this and is sensational. It basically ends up, once they've gone through that, with Dominic Treadwell Collins, Felicity Blunt, all down at Jilly Cooper's house with sort of 10 pieces of A4 trying to work out how they divide up episodes.

23:55And Jilly obviously wants to have champagne every single day at 11 o 'clock. And 10 minutes later will say, OK, but if we're waiting for 12, is it actually in the fridge so it's cold? and apparently you get and she puts an alka-salsa by your bed. Very classy. And yeah. And anyway, so they go through this wonderful thing and what I'm very interested in is the tone of this because it's such a hard tone to pull off. A lot of people don't really know what Judy Cooper's books are. There's a whole load of stories of people who stayed in like a holiday let of some type and there's like three books there and they'll read them all and one of those and they'll say, oh, it's a totally different thing to what I thought it was.

24:26Ian Rankin reads Rivals every single year. Yeah. Every single year and lots of people who don't understand what they are. They're sort of a genre of one. Obviously, they're great romances and they're very funny, but it's a social comedy. There's sort of Austin-like levels of observation, and I wouldn't use that term lightly. But it's quite hard to communicate that to people and to get that tone. The one thing people genuinely don't, I think, think about and is the hardest thing to do is tone. It really is, because the story is often there if you're doing an adaptation. The characters are often there.

24:55Some of the dialogue is often there. but that idea because a writer all they're thinking about is tone which is how is somebody reading this what's the line between comedy and reality how how do i make people laugh how do i make people cry everything why is this slightly different to other things you know crime book a scandinav thing it's tone it's tone of voice it's pacing it's the order in which things happen if you get plot one percent off that's absolutely fine if you get characters one percent off it's fine if you get tone even one percent off nobody's watching nobody's reading nobody's listening because you're just thinking, I don't really know what this is.

25:27And as a viewer, you have to know what something is. And as you say, with something like Jilly Cooper, she has that incredible tone and people who won't have read her will kind of go, yeah, but it's X. And you think, what do you mean it's X? It's not. It's a genre of one. Go and look at it. 100 % that. But to me, I'd be terrified of putting that on screen because as you say, a book and a TV series are very, very different things. And the smart thing of getting someone like Laura Wade, who is so brilliant and loves the source material, or at least at that point you were in with a fighting chance.

25:56Absolutely. And you have to communicate it at every stage down. So the actors, they were so careful. This has been reported as a no arseholes rule, but you'll obviously have to bleep this. It's in fact a no c*** rule, which is what they said throughout, which is like if anyone is difficult here. David Tennant was kind of like a father of the set. If it comes from the top and everyone is, then everyone was sort of on the same page. And they had a complete right doing this. But what's interesting about it, They haven't shied. There are things that are really, capital P, problematic. Now, there's a grope in it.

26:28I'm not going to spoil anything, but if you've read the books, you know what I'm talking about. Rather than cut it out, if anything, they've lent into it. It's really interesting. They have not censored or sanitized it in any way. When I went to a screening of the first two episodes, it's really interesting. It was like everyone was laughing so much. It's an infectious kind of energy, the whole thing. As I say, tonally, it coheres. It's a high wire app, but they've done it. but I was sitting with a friend of mine who is brilliant, writes about television and said, God, you almost have to teach yourself to watch something like that again because there is no message.

26:59One of the things that you always get asked in the commissioning process is some commissioner will say, yeah, but why now? And the only possible answer to this can be because it's fun. I don't know. I will love to know what Americans think of this because it's really quite out there. And one of the things that they did when they were sort of creating these mood boards so that people could understand this tone was say, here is American Vogue in the 80s, here is British Vogue in the 80s. Okay, we're this one, right? We're not dynasty. We're not like, you know, everything taking itself super seriously.

27:28There is an element of fun and almost a sort of punky spirit that's different and it's not as put together. It's Howard's way rather than Knotts Landing. Yeah, absolutely. Everything about it is the clothes are hilarious. Just the whole sort of mood of it is very much of a piece, but it hasn't censored the books at all. and it doesn't have what you realise almost everything you watch nowadays has, which is some kind of message about this or that. That's not to say that some of the sexual politics and things like that are not really interestingly explored because I suppose that's what Julie Cooper was doing the first time around anyway.

28:01And there have always been kind of gay characters in her books and it's, you know, in lots of ways, it's kind of very forward thinking, but it's a different time for those characters. It's interesting that because, you know, I have read, I've yet to see it, but I'm looking forward to it very, very much indeed. when it's talked about the fact that some of it is fairly unreconstructed and they've lent into that. And I was wondering if it's because, depressing though it may seem, it's from 1988 and that is 36 years ago. So actually it's a sort of a period piece. It is. It is sort of what here were the politics of a particular era from many, many years ago before you were born.

28:34And so actually it's got that sort of the documentary elements of a period piece that you can talk about. So actually it's being very truthful to the era by leaning into that and having things that might have been sanitised out of dramas in the 35 years since Rivals came out. The other thing is, from all the stories that still come out, we can see that loads of these things are still happening. We just sort of pretend because they've got certain types of this or that officer in a company that they don't happen, but they do happen. I also think that it is interesting to me that this is Disney. I mean, obviously, Disney have got different strands.

29:07They've got Hulu and things like that, which you've seen Pam and Tommy. I mean, you do see full frontal penises in this, I should say. They wanted equal opportunities. So for every pair of tits, there is a welly. There should be two. Yeah. How does that work? You could do some kind of genital audit, Richard. I want to steer you away from it, but you could. You could do a genital audit. You could do a genital audit. Finally, permission. Yeah. But yeah. So they've tried to be sort of equal opportunities in that, which is what the books are like. Are they stunt penises? Because often they are in television.

29:37No, this is not a stunt penis. No way. I believe. I mean, you know, I didn't specifically ask him at the screening, but I assume it's not. Great. A stump penis. That's a bit of fun, isn't it? Yeah, well, there we go. Thank you to the mouse. Thank you to the mouse. But I suppose actually another part of me does think that right at the top of Disney, you know, Bob Iger, who's probably thinking, yeah, I think we went too political with lots of our movies. And I'm not suggesting that he has got a personal hand in commissioning this, but it certainly fits with a move away, perhaps from the kind of really kind of slightly over heavy handed political messaging that he might think has got Disney into some, hasn't perhaps led it down a financial cul-de-sac in recent years.

30:18It's fascinating that we're told that a younger audience won't put up with certain things. And by the way, an awful lot of what has been got rid of from the 80s belongs in the bin, and it's fantastic. But fascinating that the younger generation, friends is the thing they love most of all, and friends couldn't be more problematic in lots of ways. You watch Frasier in the morning sometimes, and there's jokes where you go, oh, really? Oh, I forgot. Okay, yeah, that's what we used to do. But people, I think that generation could sort of understand what it is they're watching in the context within what they're watching.

30:46And it'd be fascinating to see how they respond to this. But I don't think any of these things have gone away. I think that lots of people are subject to, you know, similar kind of pressures and, you know, sort of sewer of lots of different types of male behavior. Women, I'm just talking about in this particular case. But yes, I think that there's lots of that still. I'm pretending it's not around, but this is above all a sort of social comedy. and it's a brilliant story as well. It's very interesting. Another thing, I was talking to a couple of, I had this really absolutely lovely dinner with two of my most beloved writer friends.

31:18We were talking about adaptation and like who was doing adaptation, you know, what's it like? And one of my friends said, oh my God, you know, TV really eats plot where I know people have adapted books and they've either had to put two books together to get enough because something, you know, you can have five pages on a character's interior life and that's just like a split second on TV. I don't do that. No. but Julie Cooper's books are so packed full of plot there's characters and bits of plot that it's so faithful to the book she's got so much going on that actually there is enough there they don't have to create whole other plot lines or B plots or C plots to just kind of make it all work and hang together there's a little bit of that just as there always is when you're doing an adaptation but far less than there would be with a lot of authors because she really kind of packs it full at the start of every one of her books there are these enormous cast lists with kind of Cooper-esque well in fact Cooper even like the names of the horses oh yeah all the dogs are named I love in her book sometimes like the animals will sort of like the horse will win the Grand National and that's like one of the big characters and you're like come on you're really rooting for them and also the great thing about them is that they kind of cross between lots of the characters cross between lots of the books and Felicity I know was thinking I mean I really love those early Marvel movies could I create Could I bring all these properties back from the various places they were left out in dusty options and actually cross over all these characters leading through various phases?

32:46I just love the idea of the Jilly Keeper TV universe. And I've got a huge amount of time for it.

32:57The JCTVU, is that it? The JCTVU, yeah, sure. Yeah, it's not catchy. It's not the MCU, is it? We are being told that the kids aren't going with the JCTVU, Marina. So we're going to call it the rut verse. The rut verse I love. Okay, the rut verse is far better. Obviously, you have swept in. Felicity Blunt, as you said, loved these books and understood they hadn't been well made before. But the other thing she really had going for, the thing she genuinely understood is that these books are brilliantly written. And that's the thing that's misunderstood. And it's often the fate of female writers and often the fate of female genre writers, particularly.

33:28And the characters are brilliantly written. Exactly that. And she knew enough people who'd read these books and go, you know, these are actually brilliant. whatever the sort of the kind of general voice of the culture is saying about you know these these are fripperies and we're reading more important books these are beautifully written social satires and they're doing something that other people can't do and they are funny which is the hardest thing to do and they're properly funny and it is that thing of underestimating particularly female writers that's happened for years and years and years where you suddenly go no hold on I mean I was looking 1988 the big books that came out Silence of the Lambs that's endured satanic verses uh brief history of time uh but what's the one we we want to watch it is rivals written by jilly cooper who for years and years has sort of culturally there's been a is she a figure of fun and of course she's not anyone who reads the books and understands the books and knows them understands that she is the one making fun she is the one who understands more than you understand and so you know i think it's when you look at the people who write about her and have got their kind of names on the front of her books like marion keys and jojo moise again also so underestimated.

34:33And also, in 20 years' time, you think, oh, let's do a whole Marion Keys universe. Yeah, and you see people who, Jilly Cooper, I've just reread Jane and Prudence, which is a Barbara Pym novel. Oh, she's the best. She's amazing. Barbara Pym, who, you know, we're going right back to the mid-century, is an amazing author. And was utterly, utterly overlooked. Completely. And it was only because Philip Larkin said, I don't care about all these big waiting things coming out. I'm looking forward to the next Barbara Pym. And then she, having had a sort of 20 years, I might have got that wrong, but a big, big chunk out of the business, she comes back and she starts publishing things again.

35:04But again, her social observations are completely Austen-esque and they are absolutely amazing. And yes, she was looked down upon. But another thing that someone like Felicity Blunt and Dominic Trevor Collins and Alex Lamb and all these people who are involved in this realise is that women love these books and they might shed lots of their books but they'll keep their Jenny Cooper books and reread one a year. They absolutely love it. There's a huge audience out there. Some men are put off by the covers because they've always got someone's bottom and a hand and a red high heel or whatever it is.

35:31And some people think, oh, I know what this is. But they don't know what it is. And when they read it, they think, oh, this is really amazing. I really like this. And I love this story. And I love the way she talks. Yeah, they're deeply male-friendly reads, I have to say. I mean, well, they're everybody-friendly. I mean, look at the characters. Yeah, exactly that. I cannot wait to see this. Is it out on Friday? It's out on Friday. Everything comes out at once. And it's eight episodes, eight one out on Disney+. On Disney+. I know everyone doesn't have Disney +, and that's hard when we're so enthusiastic about something.

36:01But, you know, that's the business they're in, isn't it? Producing stuff that's so good. You have to get it. And it's such a uniquely British thing. And I will also be fascinated to see what Americans think of it. And whose penis is it going to be? Yeah. Okay, talking of things that were huge in the 80s and are still around now, the paparazzi. That's a lovely link. Thanks. That's really charming. Thank you. I've been in the business a long time. Listen, too long. Too long. Going to talk about the paparazzi this week. Sydney Sweeney, who you'll know from Euphoria, White Lotus, Anyone But You. Now, Sydney Sweeney has given an interview in which she said that the paparazzi kind of besieged her all the time.

36:39She mentioned a time when some sort of holiday in the US, they turned up at her house. They said at the door, if you just tell her to come outside in a bikini, then I'll take pictures and then I'll leave you alone. And she said that was reported by people saying, oh, she called the paparazzi herself. I assume that is the reaction of people to reports or to snatch pictures of her from her. She's got a sort of waterfront house. Anyway, we talk about the paparazzi and what has happened. And you can think of all these phases. Obviously, photographers have always been a thing for as long as there have been movie stars and TV stars.

37:09And we kind of go through these periodic fits of morality about them. And obviously, the way they chased Diana. But she, you know, by the end, I suppose she felt quite trapped. And she certainly worked with a number of paparazzi, thinking if I somehow take ownership of this situation, that will get better. Well, obviously, you know, it really didn't. And in the wake of her death, you know, tabloids said, you know, the males said, and I think the sun followed them, said, we will never carry any more paparazzi pictures. Well, I think that probably lasted about a year. If that, if that, I think. The decade when it became really sort of extraordinary for me was the noughties.

37:44It's that huge explosion of celebrity culture when you're kind of either talking about Islamic fundamentalism or you're talking about celebrity culture. And it's like there's only two subjects in the whole decade. It gave birth to the sort of idea of the train wreck star that decade. So you've got like Britney, Lindsay Lohan, people who are, you know, who are fallen women, really. And a lot of her, of Britney Spears finally being able to talk about all of this stuff has come in her autobiography, The Woman in Me, which in which she details in sort of remorseless detail what it was like to be total siege.

38:14And they blocked in the ambulance when she's been taken for treatment. And yeah, they're absolutely lawless. Everything was taken out of her bins. They would sell her pregnancy tests. one of the most horrible photos I ever saw was this guy you used to follow around all the time and people were wondering if she's pregnant blah blah blah and he upskirt photographed her and there was period blood on her knickers and the headlight, they published these the headline was she's not pregnant you can't sort of imagine that it happened, but think of all the even the sort of on a much more sort of sanitised level but it's still as far as I'm concerned like completely awful and I remember writing about it at the time the celebrity magazines, heat magazine, things like that it was all circled celebrity sweat patches, their cellulite.

38:54They were trying to sort of make women into a sort of selection of circulable body parts. They were obsessed with people falling, people becoming a train wreck. And so it was Lindsay Lohan, Michelle Barton, all these people who'd had success and then were going off the rails. So you think, OK, well, things are better now, aren't they? Aren't they? I don't know. Because people, you know, we know from the Britney documentary and we know from the Free Britney movement that all of these sort of, you know, we now look back and think, oh, actually, Justin Timberlake was really shitty to her and she took all this heat, which she didn't deserve.

39:24And, oh, I see, I've, you know, readapted my social marae and I understand that what happened to her was bad and all these people who published these pictures were bad. But then I'm not quite so sure. Now I think, first of all, everyone is a paparazzi now. Yes. Everyone has a camera phone. And you look at what we talked about the other week with sort of someone like Chapel Run who's saying, she's talking about people taking pictures of her all the time and chasing her. And I slightly wonder quite why that has happened. and part of me thinks is that people became very literate about paparazzi photographers.

39:54I mean, I always used to notice who had sold to paparazzi, but there were certain agencies. You could tell by certain things about the images. There's an agency in LA called Splash that often you could see had maybe done a deal. I always now look at, I've always just looked at the corner of photos. If you're looking at something on, say, Mail Online, if I see Backgrid in the corner, I think everybody is in this photo, knows this photo is happening. Okay, so Backgrid is an agency who certain celebrities would say, take this candid shot at me at this time. They're welcome to ring in and say they've never collaborated with a celebrity, but I don't think they will.

40:27Now, this obviously isn't the case because some celebrities, a particular type of celebrity, makes their money from being, you know, this is before there was really influencing. Many of these people might have had different career paths now and maybe cheerier ones. I don't know. They were proto-influencers. They were proto-influencers. The first people to work this out. Yeah, and to realise that some drama and some, you know, allowing people into what could be private moments was a way, in a covert way, a slightly sort of oblique way. Well, it's interesting, if you are famous but not for anything in particular, so you don't actually have a way of making money other than your fame, then that is probably the first port of call.

41:04And obviously these sort of attractive people with kind of interesting personalities but who maybe don't do anything in particular nowadays, they would obviously become influencers. There's a job. There is a job. but there wasn't necessarily before back then so once again the moral view has become completely clouded where you just think oh sydney sweeney wants this she's really rich she doesn't need to do any of this by the way she's like her career is going very very well and there's no way that she does any of these deals she's a different type of celebrity to but people tell themselves that she has a way of making money yeah which is an incredibly good actor very well and chaparron doesn't need to do this but that the collective imagination can get clouded and think, it's fine, I have streamed her songs, therefore I have a right to do this.

41:46And the fact that everyone has a camera now makes things completely different for women. I honestly think that in lots of ways, they might not be upskirting you anymore, which by the way, Emma Watson said that, you know, on my 18th birthday, the paparazzi lay on the pavement to put the cameras up my skirt and they published those pictures. That was strangely outlawed in 2019. Yeah, that's this century, guys. That's not quite five years ago, in fact, that it happened. but until then it was just sort of regarded as part of the job yeah i mean the truth is almost no celebrities are interested in being having their photo taken by paparazzi actual paparazzi as you say there are occasions where they'll set things up there are occasions where if you go to events if you go to like a premiere or something um where there will be a bank of photographers all of whom are incredibly professionals usually the same group who are great and then if you go to an event you'll dress up yeah it's a red carpet you know they're not trying to make you look crap they're not trying to get you at your lowest and worst 100 % that because that's the one thing you know as a celebrity now is if someone takes your photo it exists forever so sometimes you go to an event and they say oh there's just a photographer could they take a photo and you go well no literally no because look at what look at what I'm wearing and it's it'd be lovely for you to have it on your leaflet but it will exist forever and ever and ever but so there's there are occasions where of course celebrities have their photos taken and there are certain celebrities who will have their photo taken by paparazzi, as you say.

43:06But almost all of it. We had it once when Ingrid and I first got engaged, their pap photo. And by the way, this is not me wintering at all, so you'll be surprised to learn I get very few paps. But, you know, when... And you walk everywhere. And I walk everywhere. So, you know, come on, guys. Work harder, guys. But someone was in a car on our road, outside our house, and those are the photos, and I think it was the mail, and then other people published them. And you kind of go, that's not something that, you know, I go to loads of places, have my photos taken. I work hard. I'm on TV. You can see me.

43:40I didn't sign up to have someone literally sort of lying down in the back of a car taking photos and then publishing them. And again, listen, who cares? Nobody other than if it was you and you woke up that morning and those photos were right, you'd think, oh, someone was outside my house. That's a bit creepy. And by the way, I say these things as an illustration of, you know, a very, very minor version. I'm absolutely fine. And listen, I have not had any problems at all. It's just, it's illustrative. If I get that on a tiny thing, if, you know, women get it 30 times more, famous women get it 60 times more.

44:12I just, every time it happens, a bit of me goes, oh, okay, I understand viscerally what it is to have that tiny bit of your soul taken away. And mine is a tiny bit, but people are having this all day, every day. It must, so many bits of your soul must be taken away. But by and large, it's not something that someone who has other ways of making money is interested in. So I would say almost every single celebrity is not asking to be paparazzi photoed on their street. No, not stalked like that. But I do think the sort of bit that's most interesting in lots of ways is the way that everyone has become one now.

44:48And everyone, and there's that kind of slightly panoptic feel where you're constantly having to be in pictures. but everybody and if you if you see celebrities say i'm sorry i don't do so and i've seen people who do this people think they're the worst people in the world because someone goes up to a celebrity says can i do a selfie and very very famous people who would be asked 500 times a day some of them say i'm so sorry i don't do them because they don't want to be constantly doing this and it's as though people they've said i hate all my i spit on my fans yeah and people lack the imagination to imagine what it's like for them the other thing i think is sort of quite interesting is part of the reason that people made those slightly devil's bargain i think by staging paparazzi pictures is because the paparazzi would another skein of that was sometimes the paparazzi would say hi there i'm on this beach in dubai and i'm going to take pictures of you whether you like it or not if you work with me we'll do them at magica when the sun's just you know and it's lovely lighting and you what you can look at all of them and approve which ones you want to use i mean sometimes you could almost see the shadow of the photographer in the front of frame because but but you can see why people did it.

45:52Now, of course, the technology does this for you. Everything is filtered. Everybody's putting filters on. Everyone's trying. And everyone is kind of posing for their own paparazzi pictures all the time. And our relationship with images in those ways has become so sort of corrupted and clearly so commodified that we all, you know, lots of people effectively work for the platform. You're all working for Mark Zuckerberg. You're staying on the platform and you're posting pictures of yourself. And you're all part of this whole kind of photography industrial complex. And I'm not convinced it's got better.

46:21I think it's warped and it's changed and I don't think it's better. It's clearly not better for many women in the public eye. Can I ask you one very specific question about this area? Because just looking back on some of the old paparazzi things and it's like Madonna and Sean Penn's wedding. And they said, oh, they found out where it was by going through the bins. So do you remember like years ago when they kept saying, oh, the way they get all these stories on celebrities is they go through their bins. Were they actually going through their bins or was that they were just listening to the voicemail and that was the excuse saying, oh, no, we found it in their bin?

46:50Well, they did go through the voicemails, certainly. They went through huge amounts of voicemails. But there was a guy called Benji Pell, a guy called Benji the bin man. And he used to get stories by going through people's bins. But he got a lot of, he was an extraordinary sort of odd character. and he used to also go through the bins of lawyers' offices who perhaps had not been as shreddy as they should have been with their documents and he got a lot of stuff from there and he got a lot of stuff from celebrities' bins. Yeah, so there were people who did that, but no, on the industrial scale was, I'm not convinced there were a whole army of people going through the bins.

47:33Some, yes, there were and there always have been people who've done that because it's a sort of very easy way to do things and trying to pay off hotel cleaners to give you the contents of the internal hotel bins, which is what happened to Britney Spears with her pregnancy tests and things like that. But in general, I think that by that stage, a huge amount of it was coming from voicemail, which is definitely a form of really sick, yeah, electronic trespass. Again, people didn't have the imagination for it. And I think a lot of people who did it didn't even fully get that because it wasn't illegal, because obviously the law hadn't caught up with the technology.

48:07It was wrong. Yeah. Any recommendations this week? I will recommend the second series. If you haven't watched the first series, watch the first series first of Alma's Not Normal, Sophie Willans' Alma's Not Normal, which is brilliant. She's so good. I'm also, by the way, really enjoying her in Ludwig, which can I recommend Ludwig as well, please? If you're not watching Ludwig on the BBC, I'm really enjoying that. She's in it as well. But it's mostly David Mitchell and Anna Maxwell Martin, who I have a huge gut crush on. And it's fantastic. I'm really enjoying it. Yeah, and it's not normal. And you can catch up with the first series on iPlayer as well.

48:44So watch the first series first and then dive into the second one. I also want to recommend a sitcom which is on Disney Plus. And it's The English Teacher. It's only seven parts, I think. But it's absolutely, just dive straight into it. It's one of those ones. We were talking about tone earlier. And the first two minutes, you're like, I get what you're doing. Absolutely get the tone. It's slightly different to what I've seen before. I get where we are. Absolutely love that. We've binged the whole seven episodes of The English Teacher on Disney+. Is that us done? I think that is us done. Yeah. It seems a long time ago we were talking about Logan Paul and KSI because we've had such fun with rivals in between.

49:20Yeah, it's been a ride. It's been a hoot. It's been a Cotswold hoot. See you on Thursday. See you on Thursday. For the questions and answers. Absolutely. See you then.