Kylie Minogue, Sherlock Holmes & Venezuela Fury

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2:36Hello and welcome to this episode of The Rest is Entertainment, questions and answers edition. I'm Marina Hyde.

2:41Richard Osman:And I'm Richard Osman. Hello, everybody. Hello, Marina. Hello, Richard. How are you? I'm very, very well. Should we get straight on with our questions? We should. We've got a lot of questions. We're going to start with the Kylie documentary. Oh, I love the Kylie documentary. Yes, I know you love the Kylie documentary. Miranda Reynolds and various others actually want to know, watching the Kylie Netflix documentary, one of the most striking things is all the incredible use of archive footage. It made me wonder who's capturing all of that material at the time and who was thinking about its future value.

3:09Is there now a more conscious effort to preserve those moments properly, knowing they could become hugely valuable years later?

3:15Richard Osman:It's very true, actually. There's an amazing archive in that. And I'm always amazed sometimes when you watch stuff from that kind of era and there's lots of archive because it wasn't an era where we were going around with mobile phones and filming everything. It was the last era when we weren't doing that. And I think any filmmaker who stumbles across, that's why you can do a three-parter about Kylie because you discover that that exists. If you're Asif Kapadia or someone, your whole job is you take stuff that was on television or on film and you put all that together. But if you can find a subject who has unseen personal footage, that makes for an incredible documentary because you really see a human side of that.

3:50Richard Osman:And we talked to Michael Hart, who's the director and editor of this. Congratulations, Michael. Brilliant job. And thank you for replying as well. And he said a lot of it, a lot of the footage you see on that was taken by Kylie's brother, Brendan. There's lots of it as well that Kylie's done herself. And there's stuff with Kylie and Jason on holidays. But it's really kind of up close and personal stuff. But he said, yes, they were filming it. I think they were filming it in sort of the same way that lots of families just film things. Yeah, it was family home movies, as it were. Yeah, and I'm sure...

4:22Now everything is so cynically preserved. But there was an innocence then, but I don't think you're doing it. I think that's right.

4:27Richard Osman:I'm absolutely certain a bit of them were thinking something extraordinary is happening in our family, something extraordinary is happening to our sister. It would be nice to document this, but I think not so we could do a documentary on Netflix in 20 years time. Well, that's what Adam Curtis always says, that footage stops becoming useful once the smartphone comes along because people are so aware of being filmed and they're performing and you don't have the sense that you're just being given a backstage glimpse. It's much more like it's a performance. But funnily enough, lots and lots of bands have lots of footage of themselves I think because it's quite boring being in a band.

5:04Richard Osman:and if you're a musician usually you have a slightly technical bent as well so there's usually somebody you know, Suede for years and there was a very good Suede documentary made by Mike Christie which is on Sky and Simon the drummer had just filmed everything for years and years and years and you know, I think lots of bands have some of that Partly to pass the time? To pass the time Because there's a lot of waiting Well I think also you know you're living through sort of a golden era with friends and you're doing something that you never imagined you would be doing and is sort of extraordinary and you want to document that.

5:36Richard Osman:And so long as there's one person in your band or in your entourage or in your crew who is doing that, then that footage exists. But I do think, Adam Curtis's worries aside, I mean, the documentaries they're going to be making in 15 years' time about stuff that's happening now, I mean, the footage is going to be insane. And so it's just in terms of, yeah, maybe it's all kind of... Maybe it's all been put out there. That's the thing. People are making a documentary. Ordinary people who are not remotely famous make documentaries about their lives every single day and put it on TikTok or shorts or whatever it is.

6:07Richard Osman:I've also said I have a business idea, which is, you know, if you go to a school nativity play, a school nativity play is probably the most covered theatrical production in the whole of history because you've essentially got an ISO camera on every single performer, including in the course, including every single one of the sheep. Every single actor is being covered by an individual camera. so you just get all that footage together and you imagine the edit of a nativity play every single reaction shot you want is already there no retakes you've got everything have you got shepherd seven uh just at the end of this line oh yeah i've got shepherd seven shepherd seven's dad has recorded very very high production values company where everyone pulls their footage and then you create a super cut of uh yeah of children's nativity plays it feels like that feels like a multi-billion industry.

6:58This is like your one about removing tattoos. Yes. I mean, you would be very diversified if you pursued all these plans. What was my thing about removing tattoos? That would make a lot of money. If you've developed a thing to faultlessly and remove tattoos. Oh, that's true. But that

7:12Richard Osman:feels like something I couldn't do because I would have to work out how to do that. I'd love to see you in the gallery on Unisifty and bring up the shepherd. Yes. I would actually just like to watch that but thank you so much uh michael hart i know we've recommended the kylie documentary before but if you haven't seen it really really is terrific stuff but yeah the archive stuff it really really makes it because it feels very real and personal funny enough michael hart is saying that kylie had seen almost none of the footage before the final edit because again like lots of stuff we film we don't watch back if we you know especially if we're sort of on a tour and people are filming and filming so it was the first time she'd seen a lot of that footage the paul mccartney man on the run documentary about his time with um wings and with linda and the beautiful place up in scotland so we're watching this thing and it's beautiful but loads and loads of home video stuff again there's always someone hanging around a band who's filming stuff but so many people were sort of just turning and watching paul watching because he's watching you know yeah himself and you know that's i love all those documentaries now always do the uh they show people the footage of them at the time and watch their reactions.

8:19Richard Osman:I love all that. But I can't remember where I was going with that. But that's the end of that question. Thank you so much, Miranda. Chloe Wright has a question for you, Marina. I know you've had prep time on this because I thought you would absolutely love it. Chloe says, after the success of the BBC's The Other Bennett Sister, what overlooked character from a classic novel would you like to see get their own show next? That, Chloe, is a great question. It's a brilliant question and I obsessed about it to the point where I had to stop myself obsessing about it. Because The Other Bennett Sister essentially takes a very, very minor character.

8:47Mary Bennett the sort of least developed of all the Bennett sisters in Pride and Prejudice

8:53Richard Osman:and imagines a whole universe for her we've recommended this show before but it's brilliant it's on iPlayer and they're actually saying oh there's lots of people that we can do they are actually saying the producers of that Bad Wolf are saying there's lots of other people that we can sort of draw out of the shadows of these books and obviously famously this has been done with lots of you know like Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead there's so many Shakespearean ones you could do I was trying to think what other ones have I actually read that were really obviously the Wide Salgasso Sea, Gene Reese's novel about Mrs.

9:19Rochester, you know, like her sort of prequel to Jane Eyre. And the Flashman novels, I mean, Flashman is, in Tom Brown's school days, the George Macdonald Fraser Flashman books, Flashman's the bully. And you know that line that people say, oh, all villains are just victims whose stories haven't yet been told. Flashman becomes the hero, and he has these amazing swashbuckling adventures. but thinking of ones that sort of haven't been done I did a top three I don't know I'm now you see you've broken me oh here we go everyone literally everyone's got their fingers crossed here okay not at number three oh we go that's a pleasant surprise I thought although she's not that minor but I there's something about her that's brilliant in um a portrait of a lady Henry James novel Isabel Archer's friend Henrietta Stackpole who's actually sort of amazing because whatever it is, it's the late 1800s.

10:09And she is an example of the new woman. She is a reporter for the New York interviewer. And she's so sort of modern and she's got great repartee. I would like to hear more from Henrietta Sackpour, I have to say. But she's not a tiny part. So I'm thinking like, okay, these people who have really small parts. I thought one, someone I've always really been fascinated by in The Great Gatsby is Owl Eyes. And we see him so little. he Nick Carrow meets him in the library at one of Gatsby's parties and he's the one who says look at this whole library he went to trouble of getting all these books but actually they haven't been cut the pages haven't been cut so we and so he sees things and in some way he's like a sort of analog for Nick Carroway he's also the only other person who goes to the funeral and I just find him fascinating you don't know much about him but he's he could see through it all as well and maybe because actually nick carrow is much more involved as you know how that character is you're not quite sure how complicit is he is in lots of these things our lives i think would be interesting but then because i recently reread the secret history because i wanted to listen to the book club our fellow uh gold hangar podcast the book club's episode on it which was brilliant and i reread it and i thought there is a character in that which you will probably remember she's called Judy Poovey.

11:29She's kind of maddening and very annoying. She's also Californian but she's sort of like a comic foil really in some ways. She's a costume design major. But actually there's a really interesting sidebar on that which I'm going to get to in a second because there was a costume, there was only one costume design major at Bennington when Donna Tartt went there and she was someone called Michelle on that limb i don't think she's anyway she ended up being the costume designer on the succession no and so many people have said i'm so sorry this is barely disguised at all judy poovey is her whatever who knows but i'd forgotten at the end of the secret history as an epilogue about what happens to some of these genuinely very minor characters and judy poovey goes there becomes an aerobics instructor okay so i'm like okay so i was thinking okay i've got to create a character here that i want to i it's the 90s yeah she's an aerobics queen in la hopefully she hasn't given up all her bad habits, i.e.

12:22major cocaine use. I sort of see Judy Peavy solving crimes. She's funny. And I think she, by the way, I think she'd have worked it out in The Secret History. I think she'd have worked it out, giving her a bit more time and a tiny bit more proximity. There's something savant about her. And I would see her solving crimes in a story of a week thing, because her idiotic monologues are very funny. But I actually, she is sharp and observant in other ways and i sort of feel like she could be like a zealot type or forrest gump type solver through the world yeah the movie the world somehow actually her presence does resolve the crime and then she's like oh yeah sure yeah and the fact that she's a costume designer maybe very good she's an aerobics instructor so i would like it to be like but she was a costume design major she was but she becomes an aerobics instructor but she's still got the skills yeah but if it's in the 90s she's going to be at that interface of the kind of wellness culture also lots of illicit activity in LA she could explore a particular type of that on underground and I just think it would be I think it would be funny and so that's I would that's my show for Judy Poovey I don't know if your show could be a novel but I'm I slightly see it as a story of the weak

13:31Richard Osman:detective show if Donna Tartt is listening or someone draws this to her attention let's talk yeah don't you think I can't even imagine the height of her eye roll if she had that but however Judy Poovey is a cult character I promise you people are obsessed with Judy Poovey the least Donna could do is give you a meeting. Yeah. Just like, you know, I'd like to hear a no. My only rule in novels is when I, my favourite thing about writing novels is bringing new characters in. It's like, I'm not interested in ciphers or anything like that. They're never there to move the plot along. They're like, oh, who would be funny to move in?

14:01Richard Osman:And I always, always go, could you write a novel about this character? Even if they've got four lines. You think, I think there's in one of the books, I say, if you followed these two people home, what would that story be? And I always think that. What would the story be? What would the novel be with these characters in it? and that's I always think is a good writing tip as well that's a very good that's a very good way of doing it yeah shall we go to an advert let's go to an advert I'd love that

14:30this episode is brought to you by Lloyds now I love it when characters are part of a club you wouldn't know anything about that would you Richard

14:37Richard Osman:the Thursday Murder Club in some ways reminds me of the A-Team I now would like to map each of those characters onto the A-Team and feel I probably could I mean Elizabeth is Hannibal and it's not even closed. Yeah, that's exactly right. And Ron is howling mad Murdoch. Well, there are definite perks to being in a club. Just ask the members of Club Lloyds because with Club Lloyds, you can bank on Lloyds to give you more wherever you are. If you join Club Lloyds, there's all sorts of benefits you can choose between. There's, for example, six free cinema tickets. They've got an annual coffee club and gourmet society membership, which would be mine.

15:08Richard Osman:And also something that the Thursday Murder Club would enjoy very, very much indeed. To top it all off, you have fee-free spending abroad, which means wherever you are, you won't be charged by Lloyds to use your debit card when you're travelling. Now, joining this club costs£5 per month, but that is refunded in any month that you pay£2 ,000 into your account. Now, that is a club that's worth being part of. Check out Club Lloyds today. You'll need to be a UK resident and aged 18 or over to apply. It's nearly that time, everyone. The Rest is Football will be on Netflix every day for the world's biggest tournament.

15:40Join myself, Alan and Micah for daily debates, unfiltered takes and the most special of guests, all from the heart of New York City. Yeah, that's right. We're excited too. See you soon. Hey, this is Michael and Hannah from Goalhangers, the rest is science. This episode is brought to you by Cancer Research UK. In the UK, nearly one in two people will face cancer in their lifetime. The question is, could science stop cancer before it begins? And over the past 50 years, Cancer Research UK has helped double cancer survival in the UK. And that's proof of what research can achieve, like take cervical cancer.

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17:00Welcome back, everybody. We're now in the realms of Sherlock Holmes adaptations. Vikram Khan has a question. Enola Holmes 3 is on its way. Rafe Spall's going to be Sherlock in a Sky adaptation next year. And I've just seen that a new Moriarty series is in the works. Yes. This begs the question, is Sherlock the most played character in film history? And why has he endured so long?

17:20Richard Osman:Why is he enjoyed it? I mean, we know why there's so many adaptations, and that's because he's out of copyright, so anyone can do him. He's got that sort of Judy Peavy thing, funnily enough, which is if you have – it's funny, I was talking to somebody, you know, the thing with Sherlock is you have to use him quite sparingly because he's so good. Yeah. You know, he absolutely – the problem with someone, he's so brilliant, he can solve things immediately. So if you read those Sherlock Holmes books, a lot of the time it's how do we keep Sherlock out of the way? Yes. So Sherlock is often in some sort of drug-induced stupor or he's off on the continent having to sort of track someone else down because the second he puts his mind to a case, that case gets solved.

18:02Richard Osman:But that aside, having someone who is brilliant but troubled and putting them at heart of a crime drama is something that every sort of crime writer enjoys doing, which is what – so everyone loves to get their hands on Sherlock Holmes. They can do different versions of him. Because, again, he's slightly absent on the page, which means you can really colour him in if you're a filmmaker. We did a little bit of research, and Sherlock Holmes is not the most played character in movies. I've got a top ten for you. Oh, yes, please. Right, number seven. We've got... No. Number ten, Frankenstein. Okay.

18:38Richard Osman:Yeah. Frankenstein, young Frankenstein, bride of Frankenstein. I could go on. Number nine, young guy. You may have heard of him. Robin Hood. Yeah. Yeah. Number eight, Napoleon. Right. This is going to be like the Mobland executive producers list, isn't it? Yeah, a little bit. No chicks on this. You don't have to see any chicks on this. These are not all fictional, by the way. So Napoleon did exist. He's just been played a lot. Yeah. And again, he's out of copyright, as we all will be one day. Tell me some more great guys. Well, I was going to say, well, listen. So he's real. Number seven, we go fictional again.

19:11Richard Osman:James Bond. He's real. Jimmy Bond. Yeah. Yeah. Number six, Sherlock Holmes. So he's the sixth most portrayed character on screen. We've got a top five. People are thinking, who's in this top five? Holmes is six. Number five, Father Christmas. So again, real. We have a real character finally. A real man from history. Number four, we are real again. Abraham Lincoln. Wow. Yeah. I mean, I remember Lincoln. Yeah. I guess I've seen him. In their country, though. Oh, in their country. In their country, they'll never be off. Yeah, which is America. Top three, I've got a new game show, Real or Not Real.

19:49Richard Osman:Number three, The Devil. Okay. It's been portrayed an awful lot. Number two, listen, you can guess who number one is if the devil is number three. I love that there's someone in between those two. And number two is Dracula. Yeah. So the devil is number three, Dracula is number two. And number one, we're counting them as one person, which, I mean... I don't believe it's theologically controversial, but... Yeah. God slash Jesus they're all part of the God number one the Holy Spirit is there but it's hard to put on screen yeah exactly the Holy Trinity yeah essentially are and is number one so yeah Sherlock Holmes only number six behind Father Christmas gosh I'm surprised Lincoln's in there I'm thrilled for Dracula well deserved do you know what what a great character I wonder if anyone has done just reading through that list if anyone has done Father Christmas solving crime I wonder if because he's got all the skills for Please don't give another of your great Netflix holiday movie ideas away live on air, but that is a good one.

20:48Richard Osman:Father Christmas solving crime. Yeah. So it's Santa Claus. I'll think of a pun. Yeah, I was thinking, why haven't we got there yet? But we will do it. Yeah, something about a sleigh or elves. There'll be something. Yeah, that feels like a hit. Yeah. Because he can go around the world, he can get into places, like everyone welcomes him. And if someone doesn't welcome him, you know they're evil. Yeah. The amazing Family Guy episode with Stewie and Brian and Father Christmas is one of the great works of any art form in any century, I would say. But yeah, Father Christmas Solving Crime. There we go.

21:23Richard Osman:Thank you for the question, Vikram. We've only got two series out of the last two questions. We've got the Judy Poovey mysteries and we've got Father Christmas Solving Crime. Yeah, I like both of them. I can actually see both of them happening. Talking of some of the greatest characters in the history of the world, Marina, a question for you from Aruba Rage. Oh, my God. That's the best name ever. That's a good name. Suddenly, we've got three series. Yeah. Because whoever Aruba Rage is, we're writing a character. Aruba asks. Again. Again. Listen. Yeah. Hold on. Oh, I see Aruba Rage. I see what she's done.

21:59She's done.