Lily Allen vs David Harbour

0:00This episode is brought to you by our good friends at Sky. From small talk to Sunday lunch, it seems that everyone has a take on the latest shows. With Sky's essential TV package, you can too. Just£15 a month gets you Sky TV and Netflix together, the programmes everyone's dissecting, quoting or bluffing their way through at dinner. On Sky, you've got The Iris Affair, Atomic and The Best from Sky Atlantic on Netflix. There's House of Guinness, Stranger Things and so much more. Series that start conversations more effectively than rail strikes or royal weddings. One package, one bill, zero faff.

0:31plentiful, reliable and considerably easier to live with than most housemates £15 a month for Sky and Netflix and you'll always be in the loop so if you want all the best shows together in one place visit sky.com visit sky.com to start requires relevant Sky TV and third party subscriptions Sky Essential TV includes a selection of Sky channels 18 plus UK, Channel Islands and Isle of Man only think your lashes have hit their limit discover limitless length and full volume with Maybelline Sky High Mascara The Flex Tower brush bends to volumize and extend every single lash from root to tip. And the lightweight bamboo-infused formula makes lashes feel weightless.

1:09Now in eight bold shades so you can take your lashes to new heights every day. Visit Maybelline.com to shop Sky High Mascara now. This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Carvana makes car selling fast and easy from start to finish. Enter your license plate or VIN and get a real offer in seconds, down to the penny. If you accept, Carvana will come pick up your car from your driveway. Or you can drop it off at one of our car vending machines. Either way, you get paid instantly. It's fast, transparent, and 100 % online. Car selling that saves your time. That's Carvana. Carvana. Pickup fees may apply.

1:54Hello and welcome to this episode of The Rest is Entertainment with me, Marina Hyde. And me, Richard Osman. Hi, Marina. Hello, Richard. How are you doing? I'm all right. How's your week been? It's been wonderful. It's been good fun, busy, a packed schedule. Yes, a busy Halloween weekend, of course. Of course it was Halloween weekend. I don't really go for Halloween. Okay, well, you'll go next year because I'm having a massive party, so I can assure you you will be going for it next year. All right, Jonathan Ross. So many people on Facebook going to Halloween parties as either Claudia or the traitors.

2:25It's like a gift. All you need is a cloak or a fringe. So ridiculously, my school uniform contained a floor-length green cloak. Do you know what? You surprised me. I only remembered it. I don't know why, because it was like a... Yeah, a cloak. If Claire had been chosen, that would not have been the first time she would have worn a floor-length green cloak, let me tell you. What were they thinking? What were they preparing you for? I don't know if it had a red lining. It's unclear what we're being prepared for. Anyhow, Halloween, obviously a big weekend on Strictly, and we're going to be talking about Strictly a bit later.

2:59Talking about the succession. We're also talking about why everybody, everybody is wrong about Strictly. I don't think you'll find I'm wrong about it, but yes. Oh, you're not? Well, listen, I'll be the judge of that. But first of all, speaking of getting a lot of stuff off your chest, we are going to talk about Lily Allen, her new album, West End Girl, which is a sort of narrative album. I mean I don't want to say possibly about I mean definitely about her breakup from her husband David Harbour who's famous in Stranger Things and various marble projects but he's most famous he had not crossed my radar before no really for this week and it's extraordinary she had no sort of advanced promotion for this really it's number one on the UK download chart and I think there's I looked this morning there are three singles in the top 20 it's a huge buzz really because it is I mean, I have to say, I really like it.

3:51Yeah. If you like Lily Allen, which I do, you will like this album. Yeah, it's ethereal in lots of ways. And yet they're talking about something so raw and, you know, very explicit in lots of ways. I really like the storytelling in it, actually. And to me, it's interesting how it's been discussed. It has almost been experienced as a full kind of social media feeding frenzy in the way that things are in our age. but more even than a sort of Taylor Swift thing, anything. But I suppose because in many ways, what she has, her biggest USP as an artist, Lily Allen, and it always has been, is this kind of terrifying, incredible candor.

4:29Yes, a terrifying lack of filter, which is a very powerful weapon. Yes, and actually it comes across, because a lot of people, there are certain people you think, you're exposing yourself slightly in Taylor Swift's various sort of confessionals, things like that, But they do nonetheless always feel incredibly controlled and marketable. Lily Allen has always had a thing where she has, I suppose she was sort of forged in the fire of all of gossip in the noughties. Particularly in the noughties, women were, it was best if you were a mess and you could be kind of. Here's the interesting thing about it.

5:04I was looking back to when she had her first number one singles, which is, you know, 20 years ago now. And in the charts at that time, in the same week that she was number one in the charts, you had Razorlight. the kooks the prodigy kings of leon this was who were in the charts this week every single song that is above her she's number 12 i think every single song um that's above her is by a woman every single one a female soloist yeah apart from dave we'll actually get to dave in a bit that generation sort of grew up venerating lily allen funnily enough billy eilish pays homage to her olivia rodrigo brought her out at glastonbury absolutely loves her yeah pink panther s there's something about what she was doing when she was doing it that really spoke to the next generation along and so she is now absolutely a role model to a new generation of female artists and this generation of female artists are incredibly powerful have sold an awful lot of records in a way it wasn't quite possible to do in lily allen's time so as you say if you present yourself as a mess in some way which is how you know she was sort of seen in the in the press back then that's now a career that's now you're allowed to talk about what it is to be a woman you're allowed to talk about what it is to to have ended a relationship in a very very candid way she sort of brought that in enough even by those standards though i would say this is oh it's great it's i mean it's it's great unless you're david harver it's almost weird when you see i was reading an electric alexis petridis um who i absolutely love in the guardian i love his music criticism and i was reading a thing and thinking gosh it's almost odd to read this album addressed as music because for the past you know 10 days or whatever it's just been a as i say post and yeah a huge kind of social media um event that um rewards those kind of things that we've talked about before in this age it rewards a kind of extraordinary kind of it it's set people on detective work to try and find previous instagram posts that they can hook in since it tells such a specific story of um the kind of decline of a relationship that they can kind of tag things into that there's less detective work needed on this one no i mean it's she literally gives names and addresses and uh and you know reads out tweets verbatim uh and you're like oh okay is even you know any detective in the world they'll be going i i think we've got him sarge well yeah i was thinking about sort of all the great breakup albums and you're thinking of i don't know like joanie mitchell blue or blood on the tracks or jagged little pill or adele 21 or whatever and I mean, Joni Mitchell, when she wrote Blue, said, she actually stopped giving interviews for quite a long time because she said people wanted to talk about the music and the gossip.

7:40And I thought the music was important and the gossip wasn't important at all. Yeah. And she didn't even write a song called Pussy Palace. Yeah. Lily Allen is not going to stop giving interviews because it's a completely different era now. I mean, obviously she was a digital native. She started on MySpace. Can I just say, you know, sometimes when when time seems like a weird concept like you know like some people's children grow up much better than other people's children there'll be some people and you'll see them and their kid is two and then the next time you see them their kid is 17 and there'll be other people and their kid was two and then the same time and they're like four yeah lily allen started on my space but she's only 40 i know how is that possible i feel like the mass of that doesn't work it's like it's like she fought in the in the first world war and she's still only 36 i know I mean, but it's all of those things.

8:29And yet, as she also says on the album, you know, she's a kind of 40-year-old divorced mother of teenagers. Yeah, I think if you've ever been in a relationship with Taylor Swift, I don't know if any of our listeners have, you know at some point you will break up and there will be an allusion to you on an album and blah, blah, blah. If you break up with Lily Allen, you know it's not even going to be an allusion to you. You know it's going to be absolutely full on. And not for any reason other than that's what her artist... That's what her US career... And that's what she does. There was something about the age where people want and demand that sort of rawness much more, which is why I think as Taylor Swift gets more, you know, has found her supposed, you know, I don't say supposed happy ending.

9:08I wish it is a happy ending. But she's lent into the idea of conflict with maybe artists, other artists, with whoever it is, because actually this is an age that wants there to be beef, pain, conflict. And that, of course, that always has in like breakup albums. but this is I think that Liliana would have made this album at any point in the cultural arc yeah so she's not following a trend no no no the reason it's so big is because that's where we are culturally that is not why she made it I don't think I think she just thought oh I really want to talk about all of this I wish there was some really amazing research on this because this is my gut that is in the ascendancy as a subject broken love is in an ascendancy as a subject more than love itself and there have obviously been times where just big love songs are the biggest kind of trend.

9:57I think in pop music, I think in terms of subjects being in ascendancy, pain and conflict, it doesn't have to be conflict in a relationship. It could be conflict with your peer group, other artists. You look at what Taylor Swift does all the time where she's found her handsome prince, but nonetheless, she's still able to mine a particular seam of kind of friction in other ways. And I do think that conflict, and surely, as you know, I believe that social media is driving so many of these things. Social media has driven that up. The charts, as it were, in this instance, is a subject for love songs.

10:32It's that kind of a song. Take us through some of the specifics that she says on this album. By the way, it's a very, very, very listenable album. Most people will never listen to lyrics in their life and they don't have to. So absolutely, you can just listen to this album as it is. But there are lots of very specific lyrics in this. Can you give us some of the highlights? okay yes so it i mean it starts with west end girl and it's quite lily allen's had a you know she had a what seemed like a happy ending before where she yeah where she got married and she moved to the country and she had her children and then that relationship broke apart and she lost a house or she needed a very big tax bill anyway then she meets david harborough and she moves to new york and it's all perfect and they buy a brownstone that's been featured in architectural digest and she is offered a part in a play in London.

11:21All of that is dealt with in about the first two verses of the first song. She's offered a part in a play which was that 2.22 or whatever it is, a ghost story, almost like National Service for young actors. Everyone's had to be in it at some point. And she did one and she did The Pillow Man, I think, and she got an Olivier Award nomination. Anyway, but all of that has happened by verse three in the first song. and after that it is a descent where she discovers his he i think he he wants an open relationship which he doesn't really want even in the first song you hear her side of a imagined phone conversation but one that's uh happened where yes he's saying i would like to have an open relationship which i don't think he had raised before um she gone to london no i mean it's not a great moment i mean a short of actually shiv saying on her wedding night in uh in succession I mean he picked his moment if that's how it happened I'm a textbook love bomber which is he's finally got her and he's like no I still want to keep hold of you because you know it feels like you're a trophy but at the same time I realise now I'm not supposed to have sex with other people and I would when I think about it I would actually really like to so can we just work out a way where I can do both of those things yeah yeah so we then move into the having your cake and eating it phase of the relationship from his side and but it's a narrative you know it's a really easily told story and you can fully understand it as it goes through the songs and it she finds that he's forming attachments with other people there's a madeleine that we don't know who she is um although we do although we do because she's now been uncovered and has actually just admitted that it's her yeah i mean she was really not someone involved in the world of celebrity because she's i think she works in wardrobe or something but she should have said it's not me but said yeah it is me and i just okay she obviously doesn't have any pr advice there's a point where she's obviously chucking him out and she goes to this um apartment in the west village and she finds it's amazing you can make a song out of this there's a duane reed bag tied full of butt plugs and lube and yeah hundreds of trojans you're so fucking broken yeah duane reed is their version of boots yeah it's a boots bag yeah it's a bit i mean yeah it's it's celebrities are just like us in many ways um and and anyway so she finds out all about the double life um that's in Pussy Palace.

13:36Yes, that's in Pussy Palace, which in my view is the most unbelievably remorselessly catchy song. Great name also for a cat cafe. Yeah, let's reclaim it, Richard. Anyhow. David Harbour, that would be ahead of a move from him, saying I'm setting up a series of cat cafes. Because of the way the entertainment calendar has fallen, Richard, he is required to be out there on the Stranger Things press tour. It's a final series of Stranger Things. is it's beginning later this month. It is obviously an enormous show on Netflix. But I've seen people say, oh, he can't be involved in the press tour now. I mean, I wouldn't go that far because to some extent, one of my experience of press tours is there's always going to be, you know, it's sort of like, hi, David, I'm from the Madrid Gazette.

14:22When are you next coming to Madrid? But there is always one. So they'll be like, hi, David, I'm from the London Scuffler. We've all heard the argument that the West Village apartment was a pussy palace would you like to make the case that it was in fact only ever a dojo and they could you know he is gonna it's quite difficult and you've got to imagine the rest of them all sitting in a long line at a press call along the stage you've got millie bobby brown just wants to talk about her teen beauty line the duffer brothers just want you to think they're going to make amazing movies for paramount like the ruso brothers do on netflix and everyone's just wanting to you know leave this great show on high and move on to their next projects it is tricky if if there's any invites to to like you know something they they do like press events and that were cast there afterwards that's one if that came into your inbox would you like to go to a cast and crew screening of stranger things you go uh yeah and i might just stay for the q a yeah normally not in a million years but yes please on this occasion it's difficult to know what he can do here one of one of his friends is quoted as saying that so because obviously he knew she was bringing out an album and this like the other said it said um david was certainly bracing for a catty album but now he's furious at essentially being accused of being this skirt chasing monster i mean you chase skirt there's a monster and the world's worst husband and again we're not no one saying he's the world's worst husband yeah but no one is saying he's the world's best husband either no no that's the uh that's the issue there for david this is very much a middling review on his husbandry as it were.

15:56This is a three at best. You behaved awfully. Yeah. According to this account of the relationship, as I say, and you know, it's really, I know that what a lot of our listeners have actually written in about this particular thing this week. Apparently this is one of the biggest ever, ever, ever entertainment inbox subjects. And people have said, you know, could you have had an NDA to stop this? It's really interesting because I ended up thinking about this a lot because our producers told us that people were interested in this particular angle on it. You can have any legal document and as long as the parties involved will sign it, 99 % of the time, that agreement will hold until you get another legal document to free you from it.

16:42So who in entertainment does have these things? We know that someone like Tom Cruise really, I want to say religiously, guards his private life. As a result, you know he's had two very high profile he's been married three times but he's had two very high profile divorces one from Nicole Kidman where you never hear a single word ever about him you never understand why her children shared children are estranged from her nothing is ever said then Katie Holmes where their shared child is estranged from him you never hear a single word at all there was extensive reports saying that she was not allowed to be shown in another relationship she had a long relationship with jamie fox that they were never pictured together at all and so there are people out there who can kind of control the narrative but i am thinking okay both of those women were actresses acting is a different art you may sublimate your pain and your your experiences into other roles but not nicole kidman has never played nicole kidman and Katie Holmes has never played Katie Holmes.

17:47With, you know, a poet maybe or a singer-songwriter, it's almost restraint of trade to say, you can't talk about your feelings. Or comedian. Yeah. It's very, very difficult. And, you know, I was thinking, I mean, I realised that like Sylvia Plath and Ted Hughes weren't alive in the era of NDAs, but like, can she not talk about what's happening to her? Can she not write poems about her experience? You know, there's a real bloodline between lots of those sort of things. and an album like this. And I think it's really different in the case of singers and songwriters to say, you know, maybe don't talk about me in an interview, but this is very interesting because it's so explicitly about, in all senses, the word explicit, about this person.

18:29But it also has a universality to it. So, you know, which is why people are falling upon it. Yeah, because it chimes with lots of things that other people are experiencing. But can you say to a singer, you might say, don't slag me off in interviews and maybe you could get that. But I think it's very difficult to say to a singer-songwriter or a poet or someone like that, work is talking about their own lives and emotions. You can't ever say anything. You mentioned their video on Architectural Digest where they were taking Architectural Digest through their home. And Architectural Digest at the time, I thought, oh, this is a nice bit of business for us.

19:00It's an interesting house, two people who people have heard of. This will do some nice numbers, so we'll just go around and film it. It is now one of the most viewed things on YouTube. but I mean it's got absolute like tens of millions of views for this thing and it's really worth watching literally the first thing he does like architectural digest comes to the door and he does like a bit like a skit where he goes oh my god what are you doing here I told you I'm married now you can't be here and you're like oh god I mean talk about hiding in plain sight uh and Lilliana in the background kind of going he's not the greatest wit in the world there's a number of jokes he attempts in this architectural digest.

19:39He's an actor who says other people's lines. Yeah, exactly. And has come to believe that he has a special source. Yes, exactly. It's a, listen, it's really worth watching, if only for the house. Can I say what's also worth watching? It's regrettably, he did an earlier video where he showed them round an apartment. I think, you know, or the dojo. Could have just been a dojo, Richard. Yes, in the lyrics. In the lyrics, she says. I thought it was a dojo. I didn't know it was a Pussy Palace. I thought it was a dojo. I mean, it's unbelievably catchy. But I just have to say that, yeah, that particular one is, and this is a complete sidebar, but we have discussed this before.

20:19Certainly we've discussed this, you know, when we're having a drink together. Celebrities, sometimes it's great to pay for all your own stuff because then the interior designers who do certain things for you don't say, you can have these things for free if you do an Architectural Digest video. I'm not saying that either of them did this. and I'm not saying that David Harbour did this with the first apartment, but you don't have to have cameras into your own house. I was naively thinking, why are they doing this? Oh, you know why they are. Why would you do that? You get discounts on all these things or I will do an Architectural Digest feature for you and it happens all the time and it's happened forever since, you know, rich Manhattan socialites wanted to get their houses because that was a sort of real bonfire of the vanities badge of honour.

21:00All the wives in bonfires of the vanities want to have their houses and their apartments um in architectural digest it's all grist to the promotional mill for this album which as you as you know as we say has been launched it's sort of just dropped without fanfare they haven't had some great big campaign that you know it's coming um and so and it's organically growing because people are fascinated by it it's really good yeah well that's the thing it'd be very possible for lillianne to have released an album that was really good in this year and for it to slightly disappear you know you can you can disappear from the middle of culture and again she hasn't i don't think she's done it cynically i think she made exactly the album she always would have done but it's one of the great things about it is because of the the honesty of it it has reminded people of what a great songwriter yeah she is and what a great presence she is in the uh in the middle of our culture can i say one other thing though which is i'm i know everyone says oh it's done this it's done streaming it's this or the other it only got to number four number four is perfectly good but i tell you what it's behind is and because and i don't think we ever talk about and this is completely on a completely different subject matter but the best-selling british rapper of all time dave has bought a new album it is beyond magnificent i mean it's it is incredible listen it's much less gossipy um than the uh than the lily uh anon album but which in rap is actually quite hard yeah Dave is now so famous by the way if you type the word Dave into Google he is what comes up, imagine that so the boy who played the harp is absolutely magnificent talk about troubled childhood he was homeless, his two older brothers went to prison and he writes these incredible songs he had the song last year with Central Sea Sprinter which is the biggest streamed UK rap single of all time he's the biggest UK rap star of all time and I think that some of the broadsheets have been talking a lot about the Lily Allen album and talking less about the fact that we have one of the great artists of the century.

22:54But all the tableaus, anyone talks in the same way that they don't discuss gaming or other things. Well, you know, or the same way that, as we say, we talk obsessively about what's going to happen to like Paramount for 8 billion and nothing about Roblox for 80 billion. And it's just one of those subjects that people don't have a proper handle on. And, oh dear, something bad has happened to a woman. They've got a real muscle memory for that one, Richard. Meanwhile, yeah, we have this incredible artist. I genuinely think he's brilliant. And I think, you know, every album he's released is incredible.

23:27I adore the Lily Allen album as well. Fantastic. All right, then. Shall we go to a break, Richard? Yeah, shall we?

23:37This episode is brought to you by Sky and Sky's new original film, Nuremberg, in cinemas Friday, the 14th of November. Now, the trials in Nuremberg weren't just a courtroom drama. They're also the story of how Allied forces shaped the reality of international justice for generations to come. At the centre of this story is a battle of the minds between Lieutenant Colonel Douglas Kelly, an American psychiatrist played by Rami Malek, and his most infamous and formidable patient, Hitler's second in command, Hermann Goering, portrayed by Russell Crowe. And Russell Crowe shows Goering as a calculated performer playing to the gallery at all opportunities, turning every encounter into a contest of psychology and ideology.

24:15Two Academy Award winners, one courtroom stage, directed by James Vanderbilt. Nuremberg's star-studded cast includes Leo Woodall, John Slattery, Richard E. Grant, Michael Shannon and Mark O 'Brien. And 80 years on, the legacy of the Nuremberg trials remain unshakable. The trial that defined modern justice in many, many ways. A story of taking phenomenal risks in the pursuit of truth and justice. Watch Sky Original Nuremberg only in cinemas Friday the 14th of November. that. This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. Oh, what fun. Nordstrom has tons of gifts under$100 for all your favorite people, all in one place, like beauty and grooming sets, UGG gifts, jewelry, and toys.

24:57Need ideas? Check out gifts from UGG, Skims, Diptyque, Free People, Stanley, and more. Plus, explore their amazing gift shop in stores and online. Free gift finding help, Free shipping and order pickup make it all easy at Nordstrom. State Senator Jennifer Carroll Foy here asking you to vote for my friend, Ghazala Hashmi, for lieutenant governor. She's a lifelong educator who's fought to expand job training. And Ghazala wrote the bill protecting Medicaid from Trump and MAGA extremists. Join me in voting for Ghazala Hashmi for lieutenant governor and Democrats up and down the ballot. Paid for by Workers Vote, 212-265-7000.

25:37not authorised by any federal candidate or federal candidates committee. Workers Vote is responsible for the content of this advertising.

25:49Welcome back, everybody. Now, before we start talking about Strictly, let's talk about the other big BBC behemoth because we're doing our live streaming of the final of Celebrity Traitors on Thursday night. All being well, that's what we're doing. And that will be a live stream. So we'll be emailing the details to all of our members, tweeting out to everyone else as well. But you'll be able to join us live on YouTube on Thursday night. It will then be available as a podcast as well. But very exciting. What's going on with Strictly? Is it all over? Why have Tess and Claudia left us? Is there a bombshell to come?

26:24Is something terrible about to happen? Can it survive? Someone said to me the other night, shouldn't they just act it? I just read somewhere that they should just act it. It's like, oh yeah, no, no, they should definitely axe the top rating show on British television, apart from celebrity traitors. But that was like, this is a very recent development. They should definitely axe it that. It's like, did you read that in like the Times or the Daily Mail or something like that? Because let me tell you, I'm so sorry to break it to you, but it's just possible that some of those newspapers have an agenda.

26:51No, they shouldn't axe the top rating, apart from celebrity traitors, show on British television. It's not actually a show that is still getting over 7 million live viewers on a Saturday and Sunday night. To say nothing of Hangover catch-up on Sunday morning. Nothing of it. It's still utterly loved by loads of people. It is watched by families. I mean, listen, it remains a magnificent piece of television. You get two types of people. You get, as you say, the journalists who are owned by a media corporation who don't want the BBC to have a big hit. You also get those people who, because they've stopped watching it, go, everyone has stopped watching it.

27:25Yeah. oh do you mean sorry do you mean you stop watching it oh yeah and actually i have i am still watching it now i think about it so it is still a very very very big hit it's still in absolutely fine form um this series the quality of the dancing has been amazing the judges i think it's the best judging lineup they've ever had so it is absolutely going to stick around it should stick around it brings a lot of joy to a lot of people if it doesn't bring a lot of joy to you that is perfectly okay. Not all of television has to be for you. Exactly that. But it is, it brings a lot of joy. We can all say, oh, I need a revamp and this, this, that or the other.

28:03And the two people who realise that more than anything, well, I tell you, everyone who realises it, all the execs, everyone, that show's been on 23 years. It goes through little cycles. It goes through little revamps. Very hard to keep a show on air for that amount of time and to keep it fresh in any way whatsoever. You know, that is difficult. And I think Claudia and Tess both absolutely understand that. It seems ridiculous now, but it was so radical, the idea that two women would present a show and the fact that they stuck that tight, they're like, you know, they call each other, like say that she's my sister and you've never been able to say, they've never been able to be pitted against each other despite the absolute Herculean efforts of a million people to pit those two women against each other.

28:45You can't. And I mean, it's a sort of amazing and a lovely story in lots and lots of ways. I think it's extraordinary. Something I don't like at all, which I have noticed, because everyone can obviously see that Claudia's having this incredible success with both traitors and now celebrity traitors, which is just going to be a driver of viewers towards the normal civilian version when that returns in January. But people say about Tess Daly, she's no good. It's like, okay, okay, no. You hear so much stuff about, oh, who's going to anchor the BBC's live election coverage or any of the network's live election coverage?

29:18Everyone always talks about that as though, you know, the apogee of broadcasting is doing that. OK, right. Let me tell you what Tess Daly has to do. She's marshaled the biggest and most complicated live show by a million miles on British television. For how long? OK, she's got to marshal. She's got to help someone and be really kind to someone who's having an absolute meltdown because they've just messed up their samba after a week of torturous practice. She's got to get them across. She's got to be really kind to them, but almost make it seamless so that she gets the judges' conversation, get them off, so that a swarm of technicians and people can come and change it from an Alice in Wonderland setting to The Matrix in like 90 seconds.

29:52We're now going live to Jake and Reese Mogg's count in North Somerset. Like, do me a favour. It's like, oh, they have to stay up all night? It is. Once every five years, they stay up all night, OK? Try doing that. That marathon every single Saturday for three months, OK? And every single thing that happens on your show has the potential to be a full-blown culture war fought across the BBC. Try doing that. Don't tell me that Tess Daly, she's a broadcasting machine. Yes, she also happens to be smoking hot. Life is not fair. But do not tell me that she's no good. I will not hear it. She's brilliant.

30:22Absolutely brilliant. People don't understand what it is that she does. It's like that thing where, you know, you watch a football match and afterwards people really know about football. They go, oh God, the best player on the pitch was Adam Wharton. And you go, I didn't see him do anything. Yeah, you're not supposed to see him do anything. Yeah, Tess's got two people. They've got a dancer and a celebrity. She's got four judges to deal with. She's got a very specific timeframe to be able to send them off. She's got someone talking in her ear. the entire time. You've got a lot of emotions to handle for people.