Mike Tyson, Bluesky & Christmas Adverts

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1:27Hello and welcome to this episode of The Rest is Entertainment with me Marina Hyde And me Richard Osman, hello Marina Hello Richard, how are you? I'm really well, lovely to see you, good week? Very good week, thank you Although I must say, the discourse on the bookshelf stacking and how people organise their bookshelves after our question and answers episode has kicked off It's taken up a lot of time, a lot of admin We will be dealing with some of that admin on our questions and answers edition A lot Listen, there are a lot of arguments, there's some cute stuff, a lot of arguments, but a lot to talk about.

1:58But on today's show, we're talking about... We're talking about the fight that was on Netflix on Friday night between YouTuber Jake Paul and actual boxer and unwell man Mike Tyson. Which I think we have different opinions on, which we will get to. We're going to talk about Blue Sky, the exodus to Blue Sky from Twitter. What's happening there, does it matter? And we're also going to talk about all the retailers' Christmas TV ads and whether they work and why people do them. Where they go next, exactly. Now, this fight, Paul against Tyson, people have spoken about little else on various forums for a very long time.

2:30Jake Paul, who is a YouTuber, used to do pranks, sort of became a boxer, called out various YouTubers, fought Tommy Fury, all sorts of things. So he's built this career. He was the world's best paid sportsman in 2022, Jake Paul. And he's a limited boxer. He's beefed up, but he's a limited boxer. He called out Iron Mike Tyson, probably the most famous boxer of all time, but an old man. I don't think he's the most famous boxer of all time. Oh, no. Muhammad Ali is the most famous. Do you know what? You're absolutely right. The second most famous boxer of all time, arguably. And called him out. Mike Tyson, of course, did yes, because there's a lot of money in it for both of them.

3:08Netflix said, of course, we will show this. The fight was on the early hours of Saturday morning over here, Friday evening in the US. Arlington, Texas. In Arlington, Texas, Jake Paul won over one of the most stultifyingly boring contests of boxing you could ever see. Tyson threw 18 punches in the entire fight and probably made about a million dollars per punch. And the fallout has been, was this the worst spectacle we've ever seen in our lives, which we'll talk about, but also did it work for Netflix? Did it work for Mike Tyson? Did it work for Jake Paul? Did it work for viewers? okay so again you know sport is content and we've said this they keep saying we're not going to do any live sports and we're doing sports adjacent events like the beckham documentary or drive to survive but they've also got two big nfl games for christmas day and we're going to come to that's a much bigger deal however big we think jake paulvie mike tyson is that's that's the that's that's the real one but sport is content um to them and they got a whole week out of this as you can see, because you've got all this stuff going up in the build-up.

4:09And, you know, it's bizarre. It was the biggest crowd of Mike Tyson's career. So go figure. Yeah, biggest ever box office gate outside Las Vegas. Yeah. In boxing history. Yes. I'm going to be controversial, and I say I think it's quite a good idea, isn't it? I genuinely know you said it didn't really work for Netflix. I think it probably worked for them okay. I think it works for Tyson because, you know, they've got some money. It certainly works for Jake Paul. It kind of works for the audience. Can we just make it clear what we're watching here? Because I think some people won't have realized, okay, we're talking about a YouTuber who has become a boxer after a fashion.

4:43Yeah. Who's got a 31-year-old age difference with this guy who's 58. He's got a stomach ulcer. He's seen him hospitalized quite a few times in the last few months. Arthritis and a weed farm. Okay. So, you know, it was, I found it a really sad spectacle and it was totally bleak. there were elements of sort of you know savage fast to it all a lot of this is like what we've said about so many times before all these kinds of things are about sports having to reach beyond their traditional fans maybe their failure you know maybe their traditional fan base is dwindling whatever it is you've got to go after fans who don't like your sport so if you see what's you know as we talked about in a kind of quite a simplistic way but sort of women coming into formula one via drive to survive youtubers so the there was a moment when before the fight where um a 14 year old youtuber called jasmine guerra in interviews tyson and this is my this was my absolute favorite bit of the whole thing yeah and sums up everything and this honestly i think this is the reason you find it so bleak this is the reason i absolutely love this as a as as a phenomenon Well, there we go.

5:53There's a difference between us. Okay, so she's 14 years old. She's got something called Jazzy's World TV. And she said to him, ask him a question like, you know, what would you leave behind as your legacy? And he says, well, I don't believe in the word legacy. I think that's just another word for ego. Legacy means nothing to me. I'm just passing through. I'm going to die and it's going to be over. Who cares about legacy after that? We're nothing. We're dead. We're dust. she says thank you so much for sharing that that's something i've not heard before and then he says can you really imagine me saying i want my legacy to be this way or that you're dead what audacity is that to want people to care about me when i'm gone who the fuck cares about me okay mike she's 14 but i mean this is the world's colliding of you know trying to bring in these young youtubers and we have to say for jake paul that he's done an amazing thing for lots of women boxers by really promoting them the taylor versus serrano fight one of the great women's boxing fight of all time on the undercard to this absolute farrago but that's why i don't mind it no one is pretending no one is pretending that jake paul versus mike tyson is a boxing match no one is pretending that it's it's the ultimate sort of youtube prank uh you know if you said 10 years ago you know all the kind of things that people do the biggest thing that said you could possibly do you could get in the ring with iron mike tyson that's what jake paul has done at absolutely no risk to himself because as you say Mike Tyson is 58 years old um he's made a lot of money he's he says he's made 40 million I don't think it's that much I would I would think it's I mean it's a lot still it's 30 million odd but it's certainly not 40 million Tyson's made 10 million you know and uh that's nice I mean he hasn't had to do anything he's just had a sort of guy who's not that good at boxing throwing punches at him occasionally Netflix have got a whole group of people who just want to watch this because they understand it as a spectacle they understand it as a sort of ridiculous WWE fight.

7:40And fans have got something they want, which is a couple of weeks worth of entertainment, wanting Jake Paul to get beaten. They know he's not going to be. But people who say it besmirches boxing, it makes boxing look bad. That is ridiculous. Have you ever seen boxing? Boxing has such a long history of this. This is just the latest. I agree. None of what I was saying was meant to deny that at all. Boxing is like, it only ever is morally complex at best. And it always has been. and it's like saying this has besmirched the reputation of war. It's not very nice anyway. However, I do think there's something very bleak about watching that and it's a sort of sad spectacle watching careers kind of end like that.

8:21And if it's just about money... What's bleak? Yeah. Because he's an amazing boxer. He was a great boxer and it's just really sad seeing that. It's actually the plot this of Rocky Balboa, do I want to say, which is like Rocky VI and then he gets back in the ring and he's about 60. Stallone. It's sort of the plot of that. Yeah, but did you not just hear what Mike Tyson said to Jazzy? Yeah, I know. He said he doesn't care about his legacy. What he cares is about tomorrow. He just got 10 million quid. You know, he's just become relevant to a whole new generation of people. He doesn't care. Relevant?

8:50No, he's not living in the moment. This is a bleak vision. And also, if you could see it, you were lucky at the start because they had Netflix. It was beset by so many problems which I've thought Netflix might be the first to get punched in the mouth and they duly were because as we were going through the undercard, people's things were buffering. Everything was being reduced to those kind of big pixel boxes and it was trending that people couldn't see it. I think at least 100 ,000 people definitely had problems. Now, Netflix have done relatively few big live events. There's a Chris Rock special they did.

9:23The disastrous Love is Blind reunion show, which was billed as like a big live event. You're going to be able to watch the Love is Blind reunion show. That went so wrong. There were so many technical glitches for that. Now, anyway, you'll have people saying, well, I mean, oh, my God, I'm so crushed I couldn't watch the Lovers Blind reunion live. By the way, some people were. But your NFL games on Christmas Day, they better have it right for that. Because if they don't, I can't even imagine. WWE Raw, which they're taking, I think they'll have it sorted by the time they've got that on. And, you know, arguably that matters slightly less, but maybe not.

9:54But the NFL games on Christmas Day, if they don't get that absolutely perfect, people will go nuts. It's interesting why they're doing this as well. I think we should talk about that because there are lots of things they said they'd never do. They said they'd never do sports. They said they'd never do adverts. But as we now know, they do do adverts. Half of new subscribers are to the ad tier. And if you are selling ads, you need people to be watching something altogether live because then you can sell the ads for more. It's sort of basic. Well, I mean, it's basically what we used to do in what we used to call normal television.

10:27I remember normal television. In America, they would call it cable. And, you know, one of the main reasons people don't leave cable, as they call it in America, is because it's for sport and news. So 90 of the top 100 rated shows in America on cable last year were NFL games. 90 of the top 100. If you want to sell ads all the time, they want lots of new viewers at once. And in lots of ways, Netflix is becoming like cable, as they used to call it, because they've got lots of live events. the prices are going up and up and there are many more adverts because even if you pay for no ad, Netflix you get ads in NFL games and wrestling you're going to have ads in WWE and the Paul Tyson match was heavily sponsored all of that kind of stuff I genuinely, I'm going to get back on the hobby horse and say I don't share this vision that it was anything other than some showboating some sort of P.T.

11:25Barnum greatest show on earth stuff I think it's easy to remember that, you know, whatever the hype around it, almost everyone in the world didn't watch it. Yeah. 99.999 % of the world did not watch it and did not care. But, you know, the people who did made a lot of noise about it. It is in a sport which cannot in any way stand on any sort of high horse. I mean, the fact that this wasn't in Saudi Arabia was a shock. It's amazing, really. Well done, Texas. I think that's about the only state that would have certified it was about. Oh, and it was genuinely certified as well. But you can go boxing, 1896, Bob Fitzsimmons, who was the great Cornish heavyweight, was fighting Tom Sharkey in San Francisco.

12:03Do you know who the referee was for that match, who they got in? They said no one can referee this match, it's too much of a grudge match. 1896. Charles Dickens. Not Charles Dickens, Wyatt Earp, the most famous sheriff of all time, O.K. Corral, all of that sort of stuff. The most feared lawman in the West, played by Kevin Costner in the movie Wyatt Earp. Brilliant. So Wyatt Earp comes in to referee this fight. Bob Fitzsimmons is a big favourite. He's a better boxer than Tom Sharkey. Sharkey gets knocked down. Wyatt Earp sees some sort of infraction while he's being knocked down, disqualifies Bob Simmons and gives the title to Tom Sharkey.

12:39And in America, Wyatt Earp was remembered for many, many years for being a bent boxing referee more than for being, you know, the OK Corral or anything like that. Boxing is a circus. It's always been a circus. Now, people listening at home who don't like boxing have every right to say this Tyson versus Paul thing is disgusting. Anyone who does watch boxing, and I watch boxing, I like it. We're reaping what we sowed. This is boxing, and it works for everybody. But to take one of your great stars for that, to allow that to happen. Yeah. Tyson is responsible for himself. Tyson has made a series of decisions over his life, some of which went wrong, some of which didn't.

13:15I'm aware he's made some poor decisions. But, you know, he has got agency. And he's got plenty of money now, by the way. His weed farm is very, very profitable. Do you know what his biggest selling weed gummy line is? It's severed ears. Of course. After the Holyfield thing. And Holyfield shares, by the way, in the profits from those weed gummies. So Tyson is in a place where finally he's got some money having been ripped off for his entire life. He's making plenty of money from this, which I think is good. But the whole history of heavyweight boxing is people being ripped off. And if Tyson wants to make£10 million to fight someone who's not going to hurt him, then why not?

13:52Well, Katie Taylor said it really mattered to people in boxing. Who was the amazing Irish boxer who won on the undercard. Who won on the undercard. That was a great fight. She said that it really mattered to people in boxing that Tyson did well. Obviously, you saw Tony Bellew in the run-up to it all sort of trying to cause problems in all these 27 ,000 press conferences they had in the week before because it's all content. Yeah. I think that actually you have to offer a slightly more shaded view, which is that when people see one of the great people in their sport or whatever, allowing themselves, yes, completely allowing that to happen to themselves, they didn't have to love it.

14:25I disagree. Genuinely, I think, honestly, Tyson has told us his view. He told it to Jazzy. He says, when we're done, we are nothing, we're dead, we're dust. He doesn't care about legacy. He knows that that's ego. Legacy is this obsession with sport. and you think, no one really cares. You know, no one really cares about the legacy. There might be about three sports people ever, but it doesn't matter. You know, sport is so popular. You know, there's going to be a new EMB or sooner or later. You know, these things are cyclical and Tyson just, he doesn't care. And I quite like it because for years and years and years, people have told him to care.

14:58He doesn't anymore. Tony Bellew doesn't really care either. You know, and Katie Taylor doesn't really care. He cares about getting some clicks at the press conference. Of course he does. However, no, I'm not sure. I thought it was a pretty bleak spectacle and I'm going to have to stick with that. But I'm glad you thought something different. Well, I just think it was what it was, I think. Because I was saying that thing about news and sport being the thing that keep people attached to, you know, not becoming call cutters, as they call it, and not leaving cable. I do wonder whether Netflix, given I know they've said they're never going to do news, but it does make me think, I wonder if you will try news because news is a really great way of keeping people watching adverts in real time altogether.

15:41The topicality of the thing. It's a big lie. I mean, it's grim, and you could probably switch off the notifications like this if they ever existed, but you could imagine push notifications coming on people's screens saying, Donald Trump guilty verdict or whatever, because they'll always go back to whatever show they were watching while you push that notification. And huge amounts of the big network news talent in the States now are being fired or have had their pay hugely cut, and they're all sort of setting up their own news organisation. So there are plenty of trusted anchors who would be happy to step straight into Netflix and be a sort of emergency response unit.

16:16Yeah, it's hard because clearly they're leaving those established players because the established players are not being able to make news work as a business. It's tricky to be involved in news. And, you know, Facebook, that's part of the reason Facebook's withdrawn from it. But that's a different thing in social media. I have to say that even though Netflix have said publicly they're not thinking of doing news, I know that internally they've talked about it. and you know it is a way of not getting people to leave the platform i would be shocked if they didn't do news at some point i think um you know the great disruptor netflix has stolen the clothes of traditional tv you know time after time after time you know they came in a suit of armor and bit by bit they stole on the socks of terrestrial tv and the pants of terrestrial tv and the hats of terrestrial tv they just because that's what people like and you know netflix now has the uh the eyeballs to be able to do that um and as you say they said they weren't going to do sport i I mean, this wasn't sport particularly.

17:08Well, I mean, honestly, they haven't. Paul versus Tyson. If it was sport, it would have been on pay-per-view. And Jake Paul is smart enough not to put that on pay-per-view because firstly, you'd see the numbers and they wouldn't be amazing. And secondly, people would want their money back. With Netflix, they've already paid. So who's losing? Nobody's losing. Yeah, so I didn't mind it and Netflix are going to do news. Those are the two headlines there. Now, after that condemnation of rampant commercialism, shall we have some adverts? Please, for goodness sake, let's have a palate cleanser. Eczema isn't always obvious, but it's real.

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19:37Now, talking about the great fights of our time, we've had Paul versus Tyson, Twitter versus Blue Sky. That's what we're talking about now. I mean, this is an even more depressing spectacle. Let me say that right from the get-go. Stay with us, listeners, but... This is one of those things I don't know my view on, so I'm going to talk to you about it and then consider my view in opposition to whatever yours is. Okay, obviously people have got lots of issues with Twitter now, and various people have left. The Guardian, where I wrote newspaper columns, announced that it was no longer going to post its stuff on Twitter, which was massively supported by readers.

20:08I don't know. I mean, I noticed that the Clifton Suspension Bridge, that account has stopped posting. Yeah, there's quite a few. How am I going to, so now I've got to get a blue sky. He said, for all your suspension bridge, I don't say he, maybe it's a lady. Maybe she's a lady, the old Clifton Suspension Bridge. Elaine Clifton, my full name, Elaine Clifton. Sorry, that's my mother-in-law's name. Elaine Clifton? Yeah. Does she spam the Bristol channel? I'm not sure she's been to Bristol. Okay, so Clifton Suspension Bridge. Yeah, anyway, the Clifton Suspension Bridge, right? The Clifton Suspension Bridge has stopped posting, The Guardian has stopped posting, all sorts of people have stopped posting and saying, I'm going to Blue Skype, right?

20:44I find it quite odd that people have spent a long time howling about social media, always on social media, by the way, and the evils of it and the iniquities. And now they're just going to start the whole depressing journey all over again that's the worry well i yeah i mean i think that the journey is on so many platforms and by the way before there were platforms this was the way with like even you know usenet groups and things like you know internet communities yeah you get this thing and it's really fun at first then there's a sort of development of a what i would call a blue skyocracy you know the the sort of elite posters who does and then it becomes i see that people are already chiding people for not being nice enough on blue sky so that's they've already got some policing happening and then there will be all the purity spirals and then you know purity spiral is a new one i love it there will be purity spirals and then like the worst people sort of move in you know and it becomes that sort of like slight survival of the shittest really isn't it and that's what i mean look at twitter now that's what you're sort of left with and i suppose the question is do you want to start the whole journey all over again I just feel like I'm not going to lie on my deathbed thinking oh my god I wish I'd been on blue sky more so maybe why not not even begin the journey that's the interesting thing isn't it and you know since since the Trump election I think it's really gathered a pace and it's 1.5 million people joined blue sky since the Trump election and Twitter a certain sphere of Twitter is full of people leaving and I absolutely get what you're saying.

22:12I think anybody who's not of our generation, anyone from a younger generation finds it genuinely incomprehensible. They do not understand what the discussion is that, you know, people of our age are having and what upsets them quite so much about Twitter and what they're looking for in Blue Sky. And I do think that it comes, can I be sociological just for a moment? I really want you to. You know, the boomers who get a very hard time of it for buying cheap houses and all this, they did at least grow up in an era that was, it was post-war, something was being built you know they genuinely came from something built something up and you know created something and they they had a sense of purpose now our generation you know that post-war consensus broke down in the 80s as a thatcher and reagan and you know and then in the 90s suddenly we had blair and clinton and suddenly this liberal progressive idea that actually the post-war consensus could be put back together and we we were building a world and building a world that that progressed and was moving towards liberal democracy it became a very real thing at the end of the 90s genuinely there's a group of people who had hope like proper hope my daughter said to me the other day she said i'd only i only realized about a year ago that actually your generation you you actually had some optimism she said because we have never had any of it but we had it we had that hope in the late 90s and we thought the idea of the end of history all of that sort of stuff there's a whole generation thinking perhaps our generation's battle is to include the excluded is to progress politics is to you know make the world a happier better place and twitter started almost exactly when the credit crunch happened so 2009 credit crunch happens and the end of that sort of global liberal you know progressiveness was just about starting twitter started and everyone thought oh this is the place we can build again we can build this beautiful liberal democracy where everyone's kind to each other we can look after each other you might say it's naive but it's a real thing it's a real thing inside people and it was that for a few years i think for those people and then the real world comes knocking and i think psychologically it's very difficult for people and they're searching for that thing again they're searching for the thing they had in the late 90s which is hope and optimism and people are good and also we can reach people but actually the more people you meet through social media the more you realize that almost everyone is different to you there's that and then there's also the fact that some people found it very economically useful to have twitter there's no question of that i do think that's very difficult and for had to have that and lots of people writers and things were found by their twitter accounts yeah i actually found the way that people talk on social media and i think it's really deceptive and i think it's i actually think there are only about 10 approved joke formats yeah in circulation at any one time and so you'll see people just there's you just see 400 versions a day of someone saying no notes or whatever it is whatever the little buzz phrase it is and i find it incredibly limiting i think it's incredibly easy to think you're being productive and all it is is a massive time suck and you can easily spend hours on it and just get absolutely nowhere from it well i think i think sometimes we conflate twitter with our phones yeah we're like i was spending all my time on my phone what you're actually spending all your time on twitter you chasing after a high that you had a while ago that's never going to come back, so you need more and more and more of it, and it's an addiction.

25:27But the economic side of it, and it was incredibly useful for lots of people, and people say, but it was so great here because I could promote my business, people were genuinely interested in stuff, and it was useful for me. And you think, well, yeah, but it was free. That's the point. I don't mean to be a curmudgeon about it, but it was free. Somebody was paying for that, and like an awful lot of art entertainment in the first two decades of the 21st century, it was paid for by venture capitalists. It was paid for by people taking a punt at a time at very low interest rates. And so you were able to promote your business and you were able to grow your business and you were able to meet people and you were able to fall in love with people all for nothing because somebody, almost always in California, was paying for that.

26:07And at some point, when interest rates go up, they stop paying for it. You can't have this perfect thing of, it's free and it's making me money. I agree with that. And I also, one of the things I thought was very interesting last week is that report that came out just saying that the rise of boredom amongst people. That it was, as you say, all of these things of idealism, you know, you've got the world, you've got a computer in your pocket, you've got, you should never technically be bored. People have never been so bored. People have never been so bored. And I don't think. That's a great trailer for this podcast.

26:38The reviews are in. Yeah, and people have never been so bored. Tickets, tickets available. Royal Albert Hall. 4th of December. now um yeah so i think i think the sort of i do think it is an unbelievable time suck and i think people lie to themselves like all addictions that they don't spend that long on it that it's actually you know they can stop whenever they want and it's and it's actually helping them in x y you know i would never you know it's it's like addictions to anything and people say but it helped me grow my business it's like yeah but it also kept you on there for four hours a day so that can't help you grow your business much can it why don't you actually spend time in your core business your business yeah that but the the hope thing is interesting though and the idea that genuinely i just as i say to any younger generation who thinks we've all gone mad i i think that's where its roots are that we generally thought that we were we had won a certain battle but the interesting thing about twitter is because it makes you a broadcaster it gave the illusion of influence as well and that's the real danger of something like twitter is you think that something bad happens you can see that someone's been hypocritical i'm gonna i'm gonna point that out we'll fix that we'll fix that straight away everybody became their own individual instant rebuttal units everyone became a spin doctor everyone became a knock everybody became their own spin doctor and everyone had this illusion of power and that's such a dangerous thing to have because the world is spiraling out of control and you think well maybe one tweet at a time i can do something about this i can change this and it's become apparent for a very long time that you can't this blue sky thing i get it i really get it it's but it but i think it's it's the fumes of an old hope.

28:08Totally. And all the narcs are already telling you you can't talk in a certain way. They love it. Get more followers. It's surreal. Just do the whole thing again. I am not going to do that particular rerun. So you're not going to please Sky. I can't. At the moment, I just think, am I going to lie? Honestly, at my age, am I honestly... At my age? With these knees. I would rather fight Jake Paul. You're a long time... That would be content, at least. You versus Jake Paul. That would be business. I think I'm on your podcast episodes we get out of it. Oh my God, you should do that. I know. There's some bonus episodes there, aren't there?

28:41Don't want to fight Casey Taylor, let me tell you that much. No. Right. No, I just think you're a long time dead and you're just simply not going to lie on your deathbed thinking, why didn't I spend more time on social media? You simply aren't. And any of the supposedly accrued benefits, I think more and more the time suck and the kind of nonsense of it all and actually the creative limitation to it, as I say, there's only a few number of joke formats in circulation at any one time, those outweigh in my view the positives and we've also spent like how long explaining that social media is terrible and we all know this and blah blah blah i mean people talk about it all the time as i say always on social media but you know when are we going to wake up it's just you know i think i perhaps the addiction cycle should be broken they're trying to rebuild the thing i saw a tweet from so george mombiot who's the the sort of um he's like a environmentalist I'm never quite sure what he is, but he's certainly, he's very Twitter visible.

29:36But he's saying he's gone to Blue Sky. You'll be shocked to hear. And this, again, I genuinely understand why people are trying to do what they're trying to do. It's genuinely they're trying to keep themselves safe and other people safe. So I completely get it. He says, one thing I'm very much appreciating on Blue Sky is what we once had on Twitter. Reasoned disagreement as opposed to the tsunami of willful idiocy here, which crushes real debate. I don't want an echo chamber, but nor do I want this bedlam. and that's at the heart of it because every single word he says there is true of course it's true but there's there's no forum forgetting it because the world is bedlam and all social media does is show you that you know that if you if you said anything you said out loud in a pub and i had everyone to talk to him he would he would see bedlam and it's i just don't know how they can rebuild that world because i don't think that that world existed in the first place i don't think that world existed in the first place i think that is definitely true i think that all of these platforms and forums and whatever there's been so much research and it degenerates in the same way and i can promise you that at some point lots of people will be saying i'm going to be leaving blue sky because it's really horrible and it's now full of awful people and i don't like the way what it didn't used to be like this and they'll be going somewhere else and it's just how long you want to continue the great migration i think i'm getting off well they said there's it there's the the sort of optimum number for any community or any organization i think it's 150 They always say there's various reports that say it's 150.

30:59And beyond that, the centre cannot hold. And that's when things become factional. And that's where, you know, sex develop, but CTS develop. And, you know, that's when everyone tries to bring things back to where they started and where they belonged. You know, you see it in big businesses all the time. It's where you have to hive off various different bits of your business when you get too big. And you certainly see it in, you know, villages that turn into towns that turn into cities. And it's the same thing. I know it feels like it's digital, but it's people. yeah i mean a lot of it yes not people it's a human impulse yeah exactly it's a human impulse and it gets too big and the center can't hold but people have lost something you know genuinely and i i get it i get the grief for what it was and what it gave people over the years i see it and you know i'm not saying i would go i am going to go to blue sky i'm okay on twitter at the moment it's not i'm not making money for elon musk he's losing money but you are working for him for free elon musk yeah sure you're working for a loss-making tyrant for free i work for gary lineker for free mate that's what i do that's how i live my life but um you know i find that there are interesting people still there i've never had you know i've blocked so many words and so many people and stuff over the years that i try and i've never blocked or muted anybody on twitter well like you know the the algorithm is is what's changed and that's why people are seeing different things you can bypass the algorithm by you know just you know so i just look at it for fulham news and friends of mine and it still works for me because i never wanted it to be anything else but yeah I think they're chasing a high that um is not going to be reached again I think and it's bad for them in the first place and lots of people again lots of businesses are leaving Twitter and I get that because that is you do have to be very careful what you're um you know what you're alongside on on a feed but lots of the social media managers are saying oh I want to leave Twitter and you go why why are you leaving Twitter good well it's just one less thing I have to do isn't it one less thing I have to post you so you know plays into other people's hands as well Okay, let's end on and up because all the big TV Christmas ads by the retailers have come out.