Millie Bobby Brown Has Had Enough

22:32I find it one of the most boring of the properties. You can tell it's one of the early ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You probably need to update it a tiny bit, you know? Yeah, but it's still Snow White. Yeah, who cares? Yes, I mean, you know. Well, everyone cares, but who cares? I tell you what, you do sit on the sofa when you're watching any of these things for the 15th, 37th, 97th time with your toddler, you do sit there watching Frozen and thinking, oh my God, it's so obvious, Elsa's gay, she's coming out, that's what this whole thing is. And you have all these thoughts in your head, but I don't think you perhaps share them with the wider Disney community because really you're just making a fun film about princesses.

23:10Well, that's the point of it, is when you can read those films in any way you wish, and that's the beauty of them. You can take it from an aggressive stance, you can take it from a progressive stance as soon as you're told what they are it becomes boring it's like Eurovision a little bit when Eurovision you always knew what Eurovision was and what it represented but every year now you are told what it is and what it represents and you think oh I thought it was more fun when I just you know we all just kind of knew and you know and it was fun for everybody so it is that thing of constantly being told well I still love Eurovision by the way by the way Dan Stevens is amazing in the Eurovision movie that he's really really good in you know that where there was no nonsense that where he just turned up did a brilliant job and everybody loved it.

23:51But yeah, constantly being told why movies are important. We're not going to be, I think we won't see marketing like that. I think that's one of the casualties of sort of sea change in cultural philosophy, which is that you won't see things marketed for, you know, here's why this is important and you sort of should see it. Now, is the next thing that's going to happen, production companies getting much tougher on contracts for talent and getting much tougher on their social media output. Essentially, do the studios have to start treating young talent in the same way that the BBC treats Gary Lineker?

24:24Yes, they are. And I'm actually surprised because her representation is no good because they should have told her this and she should have actually learnt from the first time round and not done it again after Trump won. So fine. But yes, they are going to have to do that. They're going to have to go through everybody's tweets so the same thing doesn't happen with Emilia Perez. They're going to have to go through all of this stuff. And if they don't, they do risk very, very expensive mistakes. And that's just, unfortunately, the entertainment slash political climate we live in. But for them, the financial climate they have always lived in.

24:53Mmm, churros. Churros. Or just make a load of churros. Yeah. Start a cab company. Shall we go to some adverts talking of the unlikely ways in which things are funded? And afterwards, I'm going to announce the title of the new Thursday Murder Club novel. Yes, please hurry back, everyone. This episode is brought to you by Sky, where you can watch unmissable shows such as the new season of Gangs of London, the BAFTA-winning Emmy-nominated series starring Joe Cole, Michelle Fairley and Chopin Derisu. Now, Richard, in season three, chaos erupts after a spiked drugs shipment floods the streets, killing hundreds of civilians.

25:28But here is the twist. I mean, it sounds like a big enough twist already, but you know I love a twist. I know you love a twist. The spiked shipment, it wasn't an accident. It was a planned and calculated attack. Oh, my God. Knowing what I do about TV crime and writing, all that sort of stuff, I suspect this is just the beginning. Correct and mundo. I love your catchphrase. So bring me and maybe anyone listening up to speed who hasn't seen the first two seasons of Gangs of London. People absolutely love this show. In the first two seasons, we saw the battle for power between Sean and Elliot. Let's not forget he's an undercover cop.

25:59Oh, man. It came to a climactic head with Sean's now in prison at the start of season three. Now, the aftermath of all of that has sparked a brutal power struggle right across the capital's underworld. We're talking tested loyalties, shifting alliances, unexpected betrayals. Who can be trusted? Elliot, who we've seen fight very hard to obtain power, struggles to hold on to it. While behind bars, Sean is still able to wield influence and affect events outside the prison walls, meaning the various gangs are looking over their shoulders, not knowing who to trust. In my books, I have a drug dealer called Connie Johnson who's always in prison, but she's always got like a Nespresso machine and her Wi-Fi is absolutely sensational.

26:37I cannot wait to see what unfolds. genuinely so many people have told me about this show. Watch season three of the BAFTA-winning Sky original Gangs of London on Sky right now.

26:52Welcome back, everybody. Now, Richard, please don't keep me in suspense any longer. I would love to know the title. Of the new book. Yes. Well, I finished writing it yesterday. I wrote The End yesterday. Oh, my God, so satisfying. I know, so satisfying. At some point, we'll talk about what happens when you hand it in. When you write the end and it isn't. When you write the end, exactly. Because it really, I know there's a number of things that happen after that point. Yes, so the title of the next Thursday Murder Club book is The Impossible Fortune. Oh, I love it. Because in there, there is an impossible fortune in there, but also it's about luck and chance and what life throws at you.

27:28So the impossible fortune, the inspiration all the way through, I wanted to call it Fortune's Always Hiding, which is from I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles, the West Ham song. You know, Fortune's Always Hiding, I've Looked Everywhere, I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles, Pretty Bubbles in the Air. Because Ron is a West Ham fan. Because Ron in the book is a West Ham fan, absolutely. And so I said to the publishers and agents and everyone, I said, oh, this is the name I want because of the song. And every single one of them said, what song? So what do you mean, what song? It's I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles, Fortune's Always Hiding.

28:01And nobody knew those lyrics. It's funny because I thought there'd be such a big crossover between West Ham fans and people who work in public. I mean, yeah, there's a Venn diagram, isn't there? I think it might just be me. I'm not a West Ham fan, but I know the lyrics to that song. So, yeah, I wanted to call it that and no one understood it. And then I was thinking, oh, an impossible heist. And I'd put the two together for Impossible Fortune, which does everything it needs to do for me. With a title, you want it to sum up more than one thing in the book, essentially. You want it to be sort of what the book is about.

28:32You want it to work on a number of levels. You want to work on a number of levels. That's the thing. And so as soon as I said, how about Impossible Fortune? You could see the relief again. He's not quoting this football song anymore. They said they love the Impossible Fortune. So out in September, The Impossible Fortune, the fifth book in the Thursday Murder Club series. Hopefully I'm going to see it before September. Well, we shall see. We shall see if... I mean, I write it so... I know it feels like a long way away from September, but this is about as close to the... No, I will be seeing it before September.

29:02Sorry, it wasn't really an inquiry. I mean, I'm going to be saying before September, I'm going to insist I get an early copy. I mean, if there are early copies, that's what I'm saying, is what if there aren't? I can read it to you from memory. Yeah, I'd like that. Could you come round and stand on my doorstep and read it to me from memory? Yeah, it's a great idea. That would be a lovely idea. Now, talking of impossible fortunes and talking of books. Yes. Sarah Wynne-Williams. Sarah Wynne-Williams is the former Director of Global Public Policy at Facebook, which is now owned by the sort of parent company Meta.

29:35And she's written this book called Careless People, which is a memoir of her time, which she joined, like many, very, very idealistic as a sort of progressive about where the company could go. Yeah, she was working for the UN or something. She was a New Zealander. She's a New Zealand diplomat, yeah. And anyway, she joins thinking this company can achieve all sorts of things. And anyway, there's a point where someone says, in a couple of years you're going to be as hated as you are, as the banks are after the financial crisis. Because obviously we all hate Facebook much more than the banks now.

30:04The banks are lovely compared to Mark Zuckerberg's company. It's interesting. This book has been published by Pan Macmillan here and Flatiron Books in the US. Obviously, Facebook, I have to say at the start, Facebook deny it all. We know they deny it all because they're now desperately trying to block it. She's the highest ranking Facebook whistleblower so far. We've had a few. We had Frances Haugen. We had Christopher Wiley who talked about the Cambridge Analytica stuff. and Frances Haugen talked about the sort of damage done to teenagers. And Facebook were able to say of her, oh, she's never been in a single C-suite decision meeting.

30:39Whereas Sarah Wynne Williams was in the room where it happened. Yeah. They're very worried about their privacy. Yeah, they want some fact-checking. Oh, my God. It's so beyond. That's the amazing thing. They've written a letter saying, we demand the right to fact-check this book, having just fired all of their own fact-checkers. You think, oh, they could have done it for you. Yeah. So they had an emergency legal. It came out last week on Tuesday in the States and Thursday in the UK. And they had an emergency legal hearing which found that she can't promote it and cannot do anything that might further encourage.

31:11So if we wanted to interview her, for example, even get a quote from her, we would not be able to legally. We would not be able to do any of it now. What's interesting is that, of course, they were afraid that this would happen. And it's really interesting because the UK publisher of this book told me about the existence of a book quite a long time ago and said, in some months, I will send you something that we'll have to sign an NDA about, blah, blah. And so they have been so successful in keeping it under wraps. By the way, it is really hard to do that because people just sort of find out. And how they did it was everybody was sort of bound by all sorts of agreements.

31:48and then they really carefully decided who would be able to see it before. There was a really good interview with her, with Emily Maitlis on the newsagents last week, but that was pre-recorded, you see. But they managed to keep it secret until it came out. So can you put out a pre-recorded interview even after an injunction? She's already done it at that point. You've got to sue the newsagents. Under what grounds? Well, the thing is that they could use our libel laws and I was wondering why they hadn't used our libel laws because ours are like the worst in the world and it has been published in London.

32:17All the best in the world, depending on who you are, depending if you've just been libeled or not. Depending if you're an oligarch or not. Yes. It's great for oligarchs. If you want to see, if you're an oligarch and want to see, come to London. They all do. But they haven't. But she has got a lot of evidence as far as I understand it. By the way, I have not, I should say that I have not spoken to her. You've read the book though. I've read the book and I've talked to various people about, well, I'm not going to state who they were, but I can say that I have not spoken to her in advance of this discussion.

32:41But it's very interesting. So Facebook are trying to ban it. They have got a temporary stop on it. I don't know how long that's going to last in America because obviously First Amendment rights are very important. And, you know, I know that because Mark Zuckerberg recently kept banging on about it. So they do have a sort of whistleblower playbook Facebook, which is that they discredit the person so that they're nowhere near any decisions. And with her, they said, oh, no, we fired her because she was toxic. Yeah. Okay. I don't think anything that she could possibly have done. Imagine how toxic you'd have to be.

33:11This is bad to be more toxic than Facebook. It's not really possible. Imagine making that office a worse place. Yeah, it's not really, you know, I want to say very clearly for the record that they are literally some of the worst people in the world. They are genuinely awful. The top end of Facebook. The top end of Facebook. I mean, yeah, but, you know, she keeps saying, oh, this is really dreadful. Why are we doing this? But she does work there for quite a long time. Anyhow, first of all, okay, how she's done it is by saying this is a memoir. This is my personal truth. The framing of that is really crucial.

33:38There is a sense where, you know, you're entitled to your own story. They say that she's violated her severance. She preemptively fired a whistleblower complaint with the SEC, the Social Security and Exchange Commission in America. So they've done this. It's so strategic how they've done all of this. And they also say that Meta went on record saying during the Me Too times that anyone who'd been sexually harassed, in terms of your employment contract about not talking about your bosses, you shouldn't have to do that in secret. And generally there is a view now that if that sort of voids certain things.

34:10But when we had our discussion, we were talking about NDAs not that long ago on the podcast. During when we were talking about Neil Gaiman, it's quite interesting. Once they've said it, it is out there. And so in a way, the best way to do it is to speak up. And now they can pursue her and they can do all kinds of things. But it's starting to look really bad is the Streisand effect that you talked about. The more they pursue her, the bigger the story gets, the more books she sells and the more people read the things that she has written. It's interesting, this book, because it sort of tells you everything you already thought was true.

34:42Because we know quite a lot about these people. And I already think they're the worst people. Well, she says various things. She said, you know, there are no adults in the room. Because there's a bit of you. Because I always think the best of people. That's my greatest flaw. And my greatest strength. But I always think, oh, yeah, but I'm sure somebody somewhere is, you know, is in control of this. And I'm sure someone is at least thinking about it. And it appears not. It appears that the green-eyed monster of greed trumps absolutely everything in that place. And when they know things, they've got this way that they can see when teenage girls have deleted selfies.

35:14And they sell that moment to advertisers so that advertisers can use that exact moment to sell them sort of tummy flattening things and beauty products. So it's so gross what they do. To say nothing of how hand in glove they have worked with the Chinese regime, which is, I mean, And I think that's in some ways the biggest story. They say, oh, we never actually went into China. It's like, but they've done all sorts of other things. Well, she says, isn't she, in the book that Mark Zuckerberg offered President Xi the opportunity to name his unborn child. Yeah, and I'm not saying President Xi is cool, but he just says no thanks.

35:49No, I'm okay, thanks. God, stop being so embarrassing. Imagine being Mark Zuckerberg's wife and her just going, oh, what should we call our child? And he goes, well, do you know what? Not really up to us, is it? Unfortunately, yeah. I mean, they obviously think it's most damaging to them in the US in some ways, but it's damaging everywhere. But as I say, in a way, this book tells you things that you either suspected or already knew. But by going so hard against it, I mean, I really think they've increased sales an awful lot. I think it's going to do very, very well, this book. Is it a good read, by the way?

36:26I mean, it's a sort of everything that you thought. It confirms everything. But well written. Yeah, yeah. And she does it in a sort of… I don't want this to be a review of the book, but you know what I mean. Yes. And she tells you that the story of, you know, it's a story of crushed idealism. In some ways, it takes quite a long time to be crushed. It's probably the only... Well, because there's a lot of money involved. The three things that really interested me. Firstly, she said there came a point where they just, it wasn't that they were in a bubble. The bubble was a private jet. They literally couldn't see outside of this extraordinary, rarefied world that they were living in.

36:55And they very quickly got to the very top table in politics. Zuckerberg needed persuading that actually they had helped Trump win the 2016 election. He said, no, there's no way that we did. And she's saying, well, look, your job is to change what toothpaste people buy. You don't think you can do that for politics? And they took him through everything they'd done. And he became persuaded that, of course, Facebook had been useful to Trump and, you know, it gave him political ambitions. So I thought that's interesting. Another thing that's interesting is that Sarah Wynne-Williams says the thing that she watched time and time and time again And towards the end there was the Mitchell and Webb sketch of the Nazis going, hold on, are we the bad guys?

37:34And it's funny because that's always the meme that's thrown at them. And the fact that she was right in the heart of the beast. And that was the thing she was looking at and going, yeah, this is what's happening. We don't realize what it is that we are doing. And she jumped ship. And the biggest revelation in the thing is that Nick Clegg, Sir Nick Clegg, made$100 million from Facebook. It's interesting though, as a publishing story really, just how your relationships are really good if you're a publisher with various buyers. But to be able to say to people, because this is in four supermarkets, this is in Tesco, Asda, Morrisons and Waitrose.

38:08And by the way, I know we've mentioned it before, but very, very, very few books get into the supermarkets. If you get into the supermarkets, you're absolutely in the big league. Supermarkets have so little space for books. And so they're incredibly selective about what they take. And non-fiction is not a lot of that. Yeah, so that's a huge deal. But what they had to say was, yeah, we've got a big book. We can't tell you what it is, but you would probably want to buy quite a lot of copies. So Tesco hadn't even read it? No. It was just the relationship they already have apparently. It's the relationship they have with the publishers.

38:37And actually, you know, to some extent, being so secretive, which they had to be, there was literally no way around because they would have injuncted the book. As you can see, it's quite clear that they would have injuncted the book. They've already tried to stop it. In some ways, that cloak and dagger, that intense secrecy has probably helped them. People are like, what the hell is this? Yeah, it's interesting. If you are, I mean, amongst my favorite people in the business, but also the clearest eyed people in the business are the supermarket book buyers. You cannot get around them. If something's not going to sell, they'll take risks and believe in stuff.

39:10But you can't just say, yeah, but think about it. They've thought about everything. They've thought about every angle. But yeah, Pam McMillan that I've worked with before, Pam McMillan will say, you have to trust us on this. you know and because they that's an incredibly important relationship for pan mcmillan you don't want to mess the supermarkets around so yeah those have been interesting meetings where they said it's completely secret that's exciting for everybody you have to trust us pan mcmillan must be so confident it's a good book to be able to say that to the supermarkets because they know it's their reputation on the line and if it's a bad book and doesn't sell next time they go back to tesco tesco kind of go remember the thing about facebook exactly so i would say it's it's really worth reading it's a sort of fascinating expose often of things that you already suspected were true but we horrified to learn are even truer than perhaps you thought and a really amazing cloak and dagger operation by pan macmillan and flatiron to actually get it to market because it's so difficult that it could so easily be an injuncted and it's absolutely a manifestation of that meme of um mark zuckerberg doesn't want you to read this book yeah and because he really doesn't want need to read this book.

40:13So maybe it's fun to read it. Yeah. Shall we move on? We've got three leading stories this week because this is a cracker as well. Millie Bobby Brown. Yes. Millie Bobby Brown, who is 11 in Stranger Things, but she's also a big star on Netflix, which I think is different from being a big movie star. But anyway, that's for another podcast. She is currently on the sort of promotional tour for The Electric State, which is this very, very expensive movie that the Russo brothers have directed. 320 million. Unbelievable. I've seen it. I'll give you my review later. Oh, OK. Right. Well, that's I haven't seen it.

40:46She's been subject in recent months to sort of really a relentless number of news stories, social media sort of gossip. People saying, you know, she looks old or she looks older than she is. And some of it's a sort of thinly coded suggestion that she's using fillers or tweakments or whatever people want to call them. what she did in retaliation to this eventually was she's done a video saying i find this really disgusting the way people talk about this it's amazing how many of these people who write these stories are women she named lots of the and a lot of it's mail online yeah just stating the facts a lot of it's mail online stated uh named them said matt lucas had posted a picture of um vicky pollard and said which i think she slightly misunderstood the joke yes he apologized She apologized immediately.

41:33She apologized immediately and said, this is a sort of joke about her and a pink topper with her hair, but never mind. And it's interesting. Obviously, in terms of people who think they're her fans but have talked in a, kind of added to this, it is that whole, you know, no snowflake thinks it's part of the avalanche thing. But she says, why should I be subject to this kind of relentless scrutiny? And it's, in the old days, you couldn't do this. You didn't have the tools. You'd have to wait till, you know, you were next on a chat show to pull everyone out of the moment and be really kind of censorious and say, I don't like this.

42:04But now you can just go on. But before that, you'd have to wait for your autobiography 40 years later, wouldn't you? Yes. Now it's like 40 minutes. One of the Daily Mail Online journalists who she called out has now resigned from Mail Online and said, I wasn't strong enough to say no. She's posted an apology video herself saying, I wasn't brave enough to say no. I've now had a favour of what it's like to be scrutinised. You know, my family's had death threats and blah. Yeah, anyhow. There's lots of interesting things about this story. First of all, the reason that these stories are written is because there is a market for them.

42:40The market for those type of stories, by the way, is chiefly women. It's the female gaze and other women policing, other women and how they look is a big market. And pretending that this is all, you know, that that story even has been commissioned by a man is, I don't think, accurate. But there is also a sense, you know, it's interesting hearing, we talked before about Chapel Row and what she said about fandoms feeling they sort of own you these parasocial relationships that have gone too far and there is something about being a star a young star a starlet as we used to call them now where it's almost like footballers where people feel like oh sorry we pay your wages you know we're entitled to literally like some people think and have thought for a long time that because they've got a season ticket wherever it's actually fine to stand and shout I hope your kid gets cancer to someone who's just missed a penalty yeah which is an unusual way to view life whenever you watch any of the traffic cop documentaries the worst people in the world are always the people who get stopped for drink driving and saying I pay your wages to the police yes to the police you think okay so I think there's that element of it the type of articles that these were and are and you see them I think there's a real ecosystem of those articles and for me I find it awful people saying she's had this or that done And if you look at the journalist from the Mail Online, Lydia Hawken, who ended up resigning, her Twitter timeline was a series of things saying, I'm urgently looking to speak to a plastic surgeon for a feature.

44:04I'm urgently looking to speak to an esthetician. I don't even know what that job is, but I can tell you it's probably not properly regulated. I'll tell you what, they ain't making churros. They ain't making churros. And there are all these doctors and estheticians, if I can possibly say that, who contribute to these articles, even though they don't treat the celebrity in question, to say, oh they've had this done or that done and those people do it purely to get their name out there so that they can get further business referrals yeah i've mentioned people who are my lawful prey before they're on the list okay no i don't yeah just people who come true in our day in our day we used to have esther ransom now we've got estheticians what are we raising what are we raising anyway so they purely put their name out to get business i do think there is something deeper though which is that we she came to prominence in stranger things as a as 11 and she's you know she's a sort of she's a real sort of totemic character and all the kind of boys are slightly devoted to her and her weird and outsiderish way and actually there is a cultural thing where not so much women but actually men can't really deal with those type of people those type of people becoming young women and i was thinking so wherever she turns female or male yeah you know there's a thing isn't there telling girls that they were so sweet when they were children and they didn't wear makeup or sort of fetishizing innocence or saying you know i want you to stay my little girl forever and you know father saying well i'm gonna have a shotgun the first time she brings somebody you know why that sort of social thing which lots of people imagine by the way imagine by the way a father with a 13 year old son saying the first time you bring a girl home i'm bringing out my shotgun yeah i'm going to just be cleaning it when she comes through the front door that would be weird it would be weird but actually that and that's sort of you know a sort of ordinary real world sort of thing um those kind of comments but there is a thing of male creatives i think who can't really deal with people that either they've had a big hand in their career or else they're even their creations i am i often think of susan and c.s lewis and in the last battle you know from the chronicles of narnia do you know i'm i am less familiar with the Chronicles of Narnia than I should be.

46:13Okay, well, you know Susan's one of the four children. No, I thought you were going to say Emma Watson and I was going to be able to follow it. And now I'm, like you said, Susan, and I'm all at sea. Okay, well, she's one of the four children. But in the last battle, she doesn't sort of get into Aslan heaven, as it were. And Peter, her brother, says, my sister Susan, answered Peter shortly and gravely, is no longer a friend of Narnia. Now, a little girl called Marcia wrote in 1955 to C.S. Lewis and was asking about this. And he said, I'm afraid Susan doesn't get back into Narnia. Haven't you noticed in the two that you have read that she's rather too fond of being grown up?

46:53Prick. Sorry, C.S. Lewis. I'm so embarrassed for you. I'm really embarrassed for you. Oh, my God. But he's not the only one. Okay, and by the way, that's not the first time that if he's looking down from the great wardrobe in the sky. Oh, C.S. Lewis is dead. Yeah. Sorry. God, you really are catching on, aren't you? Wow. Spoilers much? I'll tell you who else didn't like it. Dickens? John Hughes found Molly Ringwald, who was the sort of real muse. He wrote about teenagers, really, and he wrote movies about teens. He wrote all the great coming-of-age 80s movies or directed them. Can I just say he would be an amazing, he'd have to be two bonus episodes.

47:28Do you know he became a really hardcore Republican in the end? John Hughes? Yeah. Did he? It's such an interesting story. I really think we should do that for a bonus episode. Sorry. Anyway, going back to Molly Ringwald, she was in 16 Candles, Pretty in Pink. Breakfast Club. And eventually, you know, she sort of wanted to spread her wings and she grew up, you know, and she wanted to do different types of movies and whatever. And she has said that she always felt he felt it sort of as a real sort of betrayal. That's what I'm saying. There was a sort of thing about, you know, little shaven head at 11 who turned up in the first bit of Stranger Things.

47:57In some ways, people want to always keep Millie Bobby Brown like that. You're often in life, you remain the same age that you were when you became famous in people's consciousness. You know, look at even Kieran Culkin and Macaulay Culkin. There's something about them that they are loved because they are tiny children still. Daniel Radcliffe, he can go to New York and be in any play he wants. And people are always saying, oh, that's nice, isn't he? He's 14, look, and he's doing that. That's nice. Well, I don't think we'd wish that sort of fame on any child. This is why I think it's probably best not to put your children on the stage.

48:32There is something very adult and exploitative about all of that and all sorts of different things. maybe allowing them to be part of it, maybe whatever, but to not allow them then to transition out of it and to express a sort of moral disappointment in them for simply ageing. And I really think that she hit on that, Millie Bobby Brown, whether she didn't use those specific words. Well, she said the reason you think I look old is because, you know, you first saw me when I was, you know, a child. I'm not a child anymore. And that's very much on you, not on me. I'll dress how I want to dress. I'll wear whatever makeup I want to make.

49:03the fact that you are still seeing me through a different lens is literally nothing to do with me. I'm always going to look older than I am in your head in the same way that you see Macaulay Culkin walking down the street. You go, oh, he's aged. He shouldn't have kids. He's a child. I agree. What's interesting is a lot of people's reaction to this was she shouldn't have done this. You've just got to suck it up. We pay your wages. You earn a lot of money. I actually think it is going to be quite a lot harder for the next series of articles like this to be written. They'll store it up and think, how dare you, how dare you mention our journalists, and they'll try and punish her in other ways, of course.

49:39But I do actually think that it's a lot harder to do that once someone has said it out loud. Like, stop doing this to me. You're being ridiculous. And I think it will be harder to write this kind of articles. I actually think it will be effective in some ways. And she's someone who is, in lots of ways, quite an old soul because she's got lots of people who've achieved success of her generation. She already has, you know, a beauty line, a fashion line. She's a sort of mini mogul, maybe just a mogul. And I think that people like that are quite interested in being powerful and thinking, okay, how do I can deal with this?

50:14I'm not just going to accept this. I'm going to handle it. Yeah, and I think it's exactly that thing of if you are writing about that stuff, you're very justified to say, but we pay her wages. But she is also saying, yes, sorry, but I'm also paying your wages. You know, the fact that you've written 10 articles about me and people are clicking on it and that's how you're remunerated. I am paying your wages as well. So you mention me all you like. I will mention you all I like as well and let's see how we like it. You know, because that's the ecosystem. We're making money out of each other. And so if I'm fair game, you're fair game as well.

50:45So let's bring it on. I agree. It would be quite nice when those articles didn't make money from the female gaze. But the fact is, it is a fact of the market that they do. Richard, what's the electric state like? Well,$320 million. I've heard terrible things. It costs. It's got 14 % on Rotten Tomatoes. What's much is that? At the moment. It will shock you to learn, Marina. I rather liked it. It's just, you know what? It's Millie Bobby Brown. It's Chris Pratt. Woody Harrelson voices a robotic Mr. Peanut. I mean, it's sort of Spielbergian. I mean, it's a bit too long, but it is because it's, you know, Chris Pratt's playing a sort of Harrison Ford type character.

51:27Oh my God. Millie Bobby Brown. What does that say about our age? Well, I just... Nothing good. Listen, I was looking at my phone throughout. I'll admit that. You second-screened it. That's what they want. They want to spend$300 million on things that people second-screen. Yeah, I found it diverting enough. The Russo brothers, you know, they know their way around a joke. And that, to me, honestly, if you write something and the jokes are okay, then I will sit and watch it. If it's got actual jokes written by actual funny people, I will watch it. You know, and it does have that. so I would say listen I wouldn't give it 14 % is what I would say I think it looks interesting Stanley Tucci is in it he's great you know he's got good people in it yeah I rather I rather enjoyed it she's great Minnie Bobby Brown can I do some recommendations of course you can I like everybody who has seen it seemingly Adolescents on Netflix is absolutely incredible I haven't seen it yet I'm looking forward to it the second Ingrid is back we're going to be watching that well I recommend that and I would also I went to the Tim Burton exhibition at the Design Museum in London which has been extended now.

52:25I think it goes to the end of May. It is absolutely brilliant. It's got lots of, so many of his drawings, his maquettes, models, everything from The Nightmare Before Christmas, you know, Corpse Bride, obviously all Wednesday stuff, Beetlejuice, Batman things, Edward Scissorhands. It's really amazing. I think he's such an interesting person and to have that sort of weird outsider sensibility, but to have been able to sublimate it into so many mainstream hits, and it doesn't become trite, that sensibility. And I think it's because the craft and the vision is so deeply realised. And when you're going around this and you're seeing the level of drawings almost from his childhood, it's an extraordinary mind.

53:03And he's so meticulous. I love this exhibition and I love him. And I think he's such an interesting story. So I love that. It's amazing how often if you make things with love, they do cross over into the mainstream. If you make things that are a true reflection of your soul, the market responds. And just how long he kind of put. There's so many abandoned projects there, by the way, that every single one of them you think, I just so want to know more about this world. But he's, I mean, he's beyond prolific. It's really good. I don't have any recommendations because all I've done is watch Drive to Survive.

53:34I'll recommend that for sure because I think it's brilliant. Don't forget you can join our members club. Our bonus episode this week is all about chat show disasters. The worst guests ever. I have the absolute inside scoop on the Bee Gees and Clive Anderson. I have absolute eyewitness evidence evidence of every single thing. A multi-car pilot. And it is, it's quite something. I will say that. But that'll be on Friday. That's for members. If you want to be a member, it's therestorsentertainment.com. But other than that, question and answers on Thursday. See you all on Thursday. See you on Thursday, everyone.

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