New Book Smells, Vanishing Shows & Never Auditioning

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2:04Hello and welcome to this episode of The Rest is Entertainment, questions and answers edition. I'm Marina Hyde. And I'm Richard Osman. Hi, Marina. Hello, Richard. Now, before we even sort of get into the questions, we have some any other business. The QI elves have been in touch. Oh, it's never good. It's never good. It's never good. By the way, we love the QI elves. Yeah, but it's like getting a telegram from The Hague. You're like, oh no, have they caught up with me? I never opened mine. Unfortunately, Richard got a QI klaxon in your recent show when he said that Catchphrase recorded their Christmas episode in May, which was the earliest ever in TV.

2:40QI recorded our Series W Winter Wonderland episode on March the 11th, over a month before Easter. Can anyone beat that? Yes, I can definitely beat that. Also, people always say, I'm sure we've talked about it. I know when people say, why on earth are you doing this in June or May? It's because if that's when you film for the year, we do 110 episodes of House of Games and we do it in June and July. It's called public service, look it up. That's when we do it. And that's the cheapest way to do it, is do it all in one go, because the team worked for that. You know, everyone just does it. And so when you do that, you do the Christmas thing, because we're not going to be back in studio before December.

3:16So we can't just turn up in December. You can't just turn up and have Christmas in December. Yeah, that's crazy. yes I can beat March QI Elves deal on no deal we once filmed next year's Christmas show last Christmas so we did it a year in advance that's what we did so can anyone beat that would be my next question don't try and beat Noel Edmonds don't try and beat Noel Edmonds fascinating we had a lot of response to the Noel Edmonds item on last week's main show didn't we yes people were very interested people were absolutely intrigued I was able to offer some further information on certain matters listen I think we should probably get on with the questions and answers, Richard.

3:54I've got one for you. No way. This is good. This is going well. Hannah Conwell is in touch to say, Hi team. Huge thanks to the podcast. Most welcome, Hannah. Oh, thank you, Hannah. It's a taste of home while I'm in the US. Now, speaking of British cynicism, what is the best example you have of something that lost its magic once you saw how it was made? I saw someone saying they'd met someone called Hannah recently and asked how it was spelt. And she said, just two of each. So that's great. Two H's, two A's, two N's. Hannah, my main answer would be it's almost always the magic is increased. Almost always the magic is increased when you go and see something being made, which is weird because it should be smaller.

4:31The one cliche you always hear is you go to a TV set and it's much smaller than you thought it was going to be. And there are certain shows where that is the case. If you could, you know, something like Match of the Day or BBC Breakfast or something like that, when they have these amazing screens around them, it's smaller than you think. But because of the lack of shows being made in British studios, most shows are now in huge studios. If you come to House of Games, it's enormous. It looks big and impressive. If you go to Countdown, it's enormous. These things that you would think you would walk in and go, oh my God, it's tiny, and it tends not to be.

5:01There's a traditional one, but it is really, really, really true that you go to see the University Challenge set and you want them to be on top of each other. And of course they're not. And you know they're not because they do have shots during the thing of them being side by side. But even so, when you walk in and you just think, well, this doesn't... You want it to be like blankety blank. Yeah, you want it to be like blankety blank. You just think, well, this isn't what I signed up for. This isn't the show that I see on television. This isn't further education in the United Kingdom, and I want no part of it.

5:30Yeah, exactly that. And I'm about to very few people in my love of University Challenge. I really do. I was just really, really struggling to think of a show where there's some magic that disappears the moment you turn up. The show that I would never go and see, again, because I love it, and I know it would lose its magic for me. And I talk to all sorts of people who have been to see it. is Strictly. Now, Strictly, I love. I love Strictly so much. But, you know, they film both those episodes on the same night, as everyone knows. That's not a spoiler. You have to sit in the same seat all the way through and sort of cheer and applaud.

6:05And my one thing as a TV producer is always, how long is this going to take? And with Strictly, it's really, really, really long. And, of course, you've got to turn up before for a group dance, and then there'll be bits in between the two shows, and then you've got to do the final show. So it's just, you'd be there for a really, really, really long time. And what the producers and director on that show do so brilliantly is they make it feel just like an effortless party throughout. So you're watching on TV and it's just a joy from start to finish and you're always watching something. There's always sequins in your eyeline.

6:36But to go there, I know a few people have said, yeah, I went along to support a friend of mine. And they're like, five hours later, I'm still there. I'm sort of, you know, I've got a grin that sort of, you know, has been plastered on. I was talking to someone who's been on Strictly recently and normally people are very good they toe the line but he was saying when you're actually on that balcony looking at the other contestants all I'm thinking is I have to dance later and I'm absolutely bricking myself and yet I constantly have to be looking at this person occasionally someone I don't like particularly and smiling and being really really supportive that's of the whole Strictly journey that was the hardest bit most of the time you know full well that people love each other but just occasionally especially if you're dancing at the end.

7:18I do not want to be standing here. I want to be in my dressing room, head in my hands, you know, trying to get my, you know, don't go through my moves, doing this out of the other. And I can't because the show has to look like this joyous thing, which it does. Gladiators would be another because you just know what an incredibly long record that is. There's no way of doing either of those shows without that. I know as a producer, I know that. So I wouldn't go along to them because I know some of the magic would be taken off. I was thinking about this while you were talking, and thinking, is there anything?

7:47I have to say that there are some things that I've heard about how they were made. And you hear people have horror stories, either as writers or maybe working with very difficult actors, really unpleasant, working in horrible writers' rooms. It's really weird. Even when I know this, or maybe the two people who've created a show have fallen out. Even when I know this, I have to say that it doesn't, especially because it's often behind fantastic shows, these sort of things. or in fact all the ones I'm thinking about which I can't really name without betraying confidences were really big and really successful but knowing about that behind the scenes stuff I mean I go back and re-watch and think can I see it?

8:29Can I see that these two hated each other or can I see this line that they went with instead of what somebody else wanted to have? You know I hear about it and you hear real horror stories it makes you wise to individual people but I don't think it changes the show for me when I hear, if I loved it first time around, even if I hear that something dreadful happened in order to get it, I don't mind that much. It doesn't ruin it for me. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. You can often know too much about what goes on behind the scenes. I hasten to add, I love University Challenge and Strictly and Gladiators.

9:04There's just certain things where you just think, oh, that's tough to make. If you come and see, I think we're going to do a bonus episode soon about how House of Games is made. Joey our producer is coming up to talk to all the team about what happens on a day on a show like that and so we'll be seeing some of the magic behind the curtain there but I would hope most people who come along to that show still think it's magic. Owen Riley has a question for you Marina. I've read about a number of actors who have said they no longer have to audition for movies and are simply offered roles by directors slash studios.

9:35Denzel Washington who revealed he hasn't had to audition for a role since he won his Oscar for best actor in 2001. My question is What does an actor need to do to be afforded this right? This is a good one. If you don't have to audition, you're what's known as offer only. By the way, nothing in this is hard and fast. Auditions now, I'm sure we've talked about this before, but auditions now are mostly self-tape. So you record at home and you send it in. Offer only means that they're going to make a financial offer to you. You do not have to do an audition. I'm sure Denzel has never had to audition since then because people think, if you get Denzel...

10:10How things tend to work is... You build something around him. You're a writer and a director or a producer, and you need to attach a star. This is what it means. And if you've got someone attached to the project, then you've got a project, basically, and you can go out and sell it. The star is really the most important part of that, unless it's a director like someone like Christopher Nolan, who is really bigger than all the stars in terms of what he brings, and we'll come to him in a moment, because I can assure you people will audition for Christopher Nolan if you ask them. I would, if he's listening.

10:38Yeah, if he's listening, if we're available. If you're a TV actor, you might be offer only for a cameo. Say you're going to be just a guest star in one week's episode of a series, or you're going to even maybe have a, I don't know, three episode arc. Then you will be offer only if you're a name and they might and they'll want to get it. And you'll like it because it's quite a short job and what have you. So what happens if you're someone like Denzel and you're doing a movie, then the casting director will make a list of people who are available for maybe the co-star role or the supporting actor roles.

11:10And the further you get down the list, the further away you get from offer only. And most people are going to have to send something in. And by the way, there are a lot of actors who say or their agent will say they're offer only. But as I say, Christopher Nolan's asking you to read for something. You will do it. Also, by the way, if someone says Denzel is doing this film and we're looking for Denzel's wife or Denzel's sidekick, you go, I will read for that. I will read for that because I want to work with that person. As I say, offer only for a guest star, but not for a co-star or whatever it is.

11:40Even A-listers have to do chemistry reads. So if you've got two romantic leads, they will have to do a chemistry read. And a chemistry read is exactly what it sounds like, which is how do these two bounce off each other? How do they look together on screen? How do they interact off screen as well? Film can take a very, very long time. But it is that weird thing that, you know, you can be sitting talking to two people in a room and then you look through the camera and you go, oh yeah it just doesn't for some reason it doesn't work but even obviously when you're offer only you will have a meeting you Denzel will have many meetings before he agrees to be in the film and maybe before they formally tell him that it's all going ahead over the years you can read so many interviews of people who say I wanted that part so much Travolta was offered that part Vince and Vega without an audition but Bruce Willis who was riding far higher than Travolta at that time so wanted it.

12:33He wanted that particular part. He auditioned for that. Now, Jodie Foster, in Silence of the Lambs, Jonathan Demme really wanted Michelle Pfeiffer to be Clarice Starling in Silence of the Lambs. Jodie Foster had been a star since she was quite literally a child and had no need to audition for that, but really wanted it so much and did. And you always, and as I say, Christopher Nolan is a prime example now of someone who people are so keen to work with that they will do things. And I actually, recently speaking, saw some tapings of some huge actors recently and all of those people do not do auditions supposedly I would be offer only and all of them I saw the tapings of all of them for then they were effectively auditioning so so it's a kind of imprecise answer um but also with the Christopher Nolan type thing you can you can audition for him because even if you're not right for this one you just want to be in the room with him get on with him show him your chops and you know for future reference you might just think, oh actually that's that person I really liked when they were in the room and actually this role wasn't right for them but this is.

13:36I'm always amazed by how few just offer onis there are. Even in British TV or something, you get something to Phil Daniels about it and he'd just been doing a self-tape for something. But hasn't your entire career been an audition? You know what Phil Daniels does. Does that suit the character that you've got? You've seen him do 50 different things in 50 different ways. You know who he is and what he does, but they still will self-take them because why not? But yes, it's almost always a status thing, which is if you are doing the show or the film a favor, it will often be offer only. If this will be advancing your career in some way or other, then you will audition.

14:17It's that kind of very delicate balance, isn't it? Of actually, I would absolutely love to do this and this would do my career some good. I will audition versus that would be a lot of fun. they know I'd be good in it already, then it's an offer. So yeah, as you say, it's a deeply movable feast. But I'm always amazed at how many people audition for things. Oh, yeah. Even if they say they don't. Here's a good one for you, Richard, from Courtney Shembury Gray. I keep hearing about the TV networks supposedly running out of money, but it strikes me as untruthful. How can they be so poor when the BBC takes a license fee from millions of people in the country?

14:50I mean, there's some truth in that. But that's like anything, isn't it? It's like the prison service. You think, well, why is the prison service so run down when they take tax money from everyone in the country. I mean, some things are very, very expensive. TV is definitely one of them. You have to take a view as to whether you get more from the television industry than it takes out. It's weird how those two worlds, BBC and mass incarceration, have really crossed over in recent years. So yeah, I think TV is very expensive. You know, it has large capital set up funds, big teams who have to make it.

15:22So, you know, it does cost a lot of money. With the BBC, they've taken constant real-term cuts because of inflation and various other things like that. And they had co-production money. There were so many co-productions on British Tech, which, by the way, was itself a journey in the sense that in the old days they could afford to put on all their own drama and comedy and what have you. And then it became very expensive, but then suddenly there was all this money coming in from the streamers who wanted to do co-productions in order to build their libraries and to get that sort of exposure. And now there was no co-production money, and they can't afford to do so many of the things they want to do.

15:56There's so many things on the BBC's slate that would be sort of half, they're half-funded. The BBC is half-funded, and they don't have co-production money anymore. How do you mean by that, they don't have co-production money anymore? Because they're not going to do any more deals with Netflix. They're not going to do any more with HBO. You know, something like I May Destroy You, which is HBO and the BBC, or lots of other different things. They had lots of these arrangements, and those are now gone. Yeah, but they do do co-production. you know, BBC studios will do co-productions and get money from elsewhere.

16:23But yeah, in terms of other platforms. So yeah, I think the basic point is there's an awful lot of things that are funded by all of us, none of which have enough money. So the BBC's basic annual budget is somewhere around just over 5 billion. And about 65 % of that comes from license fee. The rest comes from commercial activities and selling shows and what have you. So that's what they're working with. And it sounds like an awful lot of money. But then if you think about what it is that they do with that money, it soon kind of gets apportioned out. Television is, you know, incredibly expensive to do.

16:58I know people say, look at how many people they're sending to Glastonbury and this, that, the other. By and large, one's cloth is cut very close to the bone. Can a cloth be cut very close to the bone? You know what I mean, though. And so if it sounds like something's overstaffed, it's because you don't understand how complicated it is to put on. I think it's definitely an argument that in the past, the BBC maybe had more money than it knew what to do with. I think that is definitely the case. That's long past. That is long past. If you look at stuff like the World Service, which used to be paid for by the Department of International Development, Foreign Office, whatever it was, their arrangement, and then suddenly it was all for the BBC to fund, and now the government have put in some money.

17:35But this is a sort of huge and amazing instrument of soft power that, in my view, we should fund double. It's so little money when you look at the big sums they're talking about. It's like if you doubled it, someone like Peter Bazalgette, who was saying recently, why don't we just double it? It's another sort of 80 million pounds, which in terms of government sums is absolutely nothing. And it's such a huge sort of influence across the world and would make so much sense. That's a real investment in soft power Britain. And yet the BBC is expected to come up with it. And because things have become more expensive, it just means it's going to have to cut things.

18:10Yeah. Listen, we all know how much it is to fill potholes and we all think that should be done. and, you know, the BBC fills cultural potholes, I think, up and down the country. I 100 % get it that if the BBC doesn't work for you or there's nothing on there for you, then why would you pay it? But I feel that we've been very open about this on the show many times that we feel that the BBC is a net positive for the country. I never talk about the BBC because obviously they pay me to do House of Games, so I feel I'm compromised. The BBC is trying to do local radio, local news, shows, big primetime mainstream shows, dramas, sitcoms, all of those things, it can do far fewer than it used to because it does have, in real terms, an awful lot less money.

18:49Yeah, it is not at a stage anymore where it is frittering money away, I would say, but television happens to be very, very, very expensive. So if you want to be in that game, and I would say as a country, probably do want to be in that game, that's what it costs. In fact, it should cost an awful lot more. Right. After this break that we're about to go to, we're going to talk about why books smell like they do. Listen, we've got range. Yeah, huge range. See you after the break.

19:18This episode is brought to you by Sky Cinema, the ultimate destination for movie lovers to enjoy the latest blockbusters with Paramount Plus included at no extra cost. Now, Anora, this year's Best Picture winner at the Oscars, has just landed on Sky Cinema. If you haven't seen it, it follows a Brooklyn dancer, a Russian oligarch family, and a Cold War with the in-laws. It's sharp, it's stylish, with five Oscars to prove it. Add Twisters and Wild Robot to the mix, and Sky Cinema doesn't just offer films, it premieres them straight to your living room. Paramount +, as Marina said, included with your subscription at no extra cost, bringing you blockbuster movies, new originals and hit shows.

19:55The full series of Mobland is available to stream now, as well as exclusive blockbusters like Gladiator 2, that's on there. Plus, enjoy hit series like Lionesses and Landman, which I love, exclusively on Paramount+. one subscription and suddenly you're choosing between togas, turf wars and tornadoes. Search Sky Cinema to find out more. Paramount Plus Basic with ads included for Sky TV customers with Sky Cinema only. Our friends at Sky, proud partners of the rest of its entertainment, have made it easier than ever to find something worth watching. All you have to do is ask. And this June, it's all about pride and cultural icons.

20:30Just say pride into your Sky remote and you'll unlock a collection that's bold, brilliant and bursting with LGBTQ plus stories from cult classics to cultural milestones. There's joy, there's defiance, there's a lot of great hair and a few heartbreakers too. Here's what made it onto our personal pride playlists. What would make it onto your list, Marina? I really want to, I love Heartstopper so much, but I'm going to, I think I'm going to just going to say a movie because there's breadth, there's breadth there. And I'm going to talk about queer, Luca Guadagnino's movie, which is loosely based on William Burroughs' memoir and Daniel Craig's in it.

21:03And it's set in post-war. He's an American expat living in post-war Mexico City. There's a whole wild kind of vision quest involving ayahuasca and there's that. And there's a bit where he's walking back from a bar to the hotel and it's Nirvana, Come As You Are. And I've actually never heard that song in that way. It made me rethink of it completely differently, but it's brilliant. I mean, he's fantastic in it, Daniel Craig. and the whole film is a kind of dreamy, very odd, but brilliant, very kind of compelling watch. I am going to recommend an amazing sitcom. I think it was the best sitcom of last year.

21:39It's on Disney Plus and it's called The English Teacher. It's Brian Jordan Alvarez and he is an English teacher. He's an out gay man and he's working essentially in a high school in Texas and with the, you know, some of the... With all that entails. With all that entails. But it's one of those sitcoms just when you're despairing of ever seeing a great sitcom again the English teacher came along and it just takes the world on in such an interesting way and such a unique way and it's such a 2025 way that you just know why have I not seen this character before I feel like I've seen a show set in a high school I feel like I've seen wacky teachers and you know kids who are bored and always on their phones but it's done in such a way and the jokes are done so brilliantly that you just think thank goodness for this.

22:25Brian Jordan Alvarez writes it, stars in it as well, as Evan Marquez, who's the titular English teacher of the piece. But it's just brilliantly funny. And most importantly, it's just absolutely full of jokes. Okay, well, there's no question that It's a Sin would make it onto my list, which is Russell T. Davis's brilliant drama about the AIDS crisis told through the group of sort of young friends in the 80s. Obviously, the story has got so much tragedy in it. I don't think anyone writes friendship and fun like him. There's something about the way he writes it that's so authentic and you really feel like, oh, I really want these people to be my friends.

23:01I actually went back really recently and watched episode one of it just because I wanted to see how he did it. You know, you're aware of what it's like. You take it up as a writer. You want to see how a brilliant writer does it. Just literally, you know, dismantle it. I thought it was absolutely brilliant. And, you know, as I say, it's completely heartbreaking in lots of ways, but there are moments of total levity. I mean, even there's a bit in a hospital and someone is dying of AIDS and one of the other people in the room says, you know, actually, he's my boyfriend in this really defiant way.

23:29And he goes, well, yeah, well, I'm not. But the idea that you could inject any humour into that situation, but it's so real and so brilliant. I just think it's amazing. I absolutely loved It's a Sin. You've taken that off my playlist. That definitely would have been, no, no, no, listen, that definitely would have been right up there. So our playlist is It's a Sin, Queer, Heartstopper, and the English teacher. If anything we've mentioned has piqued your interest, just say Pride into your Sky remote. It's the easiest way to explore the full collection and save your favourites to your own playlist to watch later.