Rupert Murdoch Is A Messy Bitch

17:24Richard Osman:The thing I think most about this entire generation is it makes me feel so tired. Because I think about how hard I worked, but at least I could go home at the end of the day. But they're just, that idea of always on is not just for an audience, it's also for that person as well. I was looking, you know, I was reading a lot about Alex Cooper, who's amazing what she's done and what she's created. And, you know, her background, her educational background was she studied film and TV. So this is like what someone in my generation or the generation after me would have done if they wanted to be in the media.

17:54Richard Osman:She then gets a job in advertising, which again is the thing that would have happened in my generation or the generation after. But now there is a route through which didn't exist till 10 years ago, where suddenly she's worth$200 million because she goes off, she can represent herself, she is herself, she can do exactly what she wants, she can sign what she wants with who she wants, and there's a huge amount of money out there. and you know she's potentially worth much more if these people that she kind of brings into her production company into unwell are seen as a kind of credible umbrella group of companies that she that she's in charge of then she's properly a mogul and then she's maybe she's part of this sales gold rush that we've seen but as you say the people she's bringing in are people in her image and by which i don't mean they look like her i mean they are doing the same thing which is they're putting themselves out there they're making content about themselves which hopefully is relatable to a fairly big audience and an audience that's got money and when i think about the you know the the collapse of the industry i grew up in and and the people who are out of work there's more money than ever in content it's just anyone who was over 40 at the time all this started happening is completely alien uh if you are starting out in the industry now it's like it it is a absolute insane gold rush right i think so but the rules you know when we're talking about this.

19:15Richard Osman:It sounds so alien. It sounds so absurd. And yet it is the content that huge amounts of people are enjoying and huge amounts of people are spending an hour or two a day on that they would have previously spent watching an ITV drama. I agree with that. But I also agree with it at a sort of mogul level because I've seen a lot of people saying, oh, you know, these young female founders, how typical they've sort of descended into amateurish bitching, really. And that's very much part of their economy. You know, you can't imagine the old media moguls behaving like this. Huh? Okay. What? Oh my God. Yes, you can.

19:51Let's talk about the first Trump presidency. I don't know what his routine is now. His get ready with routine is now. But let me tell you, in that first presidency, he would get into bed 6.30 with the big cheeseburger and the vat of Diet Coke with all the TVs set to, as he put it in an actual quote, channels talking about me. Such a get Get ready with me, routine. And then he would chat on the phone to a carousel of billionaires, many of the media billionaires, all of whom had been given cleared caller status to the White House so they could get straight through. And they would bitch all night long.

20:23There was one time when Murdoch was on the phone to him and he just had to explain to Silicon Valley billionaires didn't need Trump's help. They were sort of on the show under the last administration. And Trump just didn't understand it at all. And as soon as Murdoch puts on the phone, he just rings someone else and goes, what a fucking idiot. they are all bitching about each other. The thing is, they just do it in private.

20:42Richard Osman:Oh, Murdoch v. Maxwell. I mean, it's all that. But also not just in private. There's lots and lots of it in public. It's just they are men. And so it's seen as somehow machinations. It is not female behaviour. Money and gossip is all of it for them. In men, it's seen as 3D chess. Yeah. Think, wow, so amazing what they're doing, the way they're sort of moving their pieces around. But I mean, of course it was ever thus. I completely agree with you. It is not. This is not female behaviour at all. It is not female ego or male ego. It is ego. Yeah. Yeah. It's money and gossip and they all mainline it and love it.

21:15I think actually even showbiz is less bitchy than being a mogul. I think...

21:19Richard Osman:Well, look at the Epstein files. It's taught us many, many things. One of them is there's a whole series of very, very high profile men who are spending a lot of their time just bitching about each other and trying to get into each other's parties. Yes. This is how these people, the new mogul, you know, this is how someone, I would say Alex Cooper is probably further ascended to mogul than Alex Earl is. But this is how they dominate the attention economy. Via this sort of behavior. Murdoch had Fox News and that is a way of getting eyeballs. They have this. And Alex Cooper has Alex Cooper. And it remains to be seen whether the people she brings into her stable are as good as she is.

21:56And Alex Earl has Alex Earl. And they're doing very, very, very well off it. Thank you. I suppose my question is, can you become genuinely powerful like this in the way that the people we were talking about, those billionaires, were genuinely powerful?

22:08Richard Osman:I mean, I think so. I think, you know, given that Trump can become president and a large part of that was through what at the time was seen as new media, which is reality TV. Now we would think of as old media. There's definitely a world in which Joe Rogan or Alex Cooper has a very, very big political career. I completely agree with that. And I think Joe Rogan's sort of doing it now and all the beef happens, all his beef, Rogan's beef happens on air and he talks about it and it's content. As I say, everything is content and your life is content. I mean, if you have spent many, many years owning your own narrative, not necessarily controlling it because people come in and out of it, but owning your own narrative, you're sort of exposure proof.

22:47Richard Osman:You know, the old media who will sort of bring you on and ask you questions about, you know labor reforms you think it's this there's a generation who have never heard people being questioned in that way and no i'm not interested in it and the nature of that that owning your own narrative is being sort of post shame it you just get up tomorrow and you live stream all over again and it's interesting someone we would i noticed oh god i was reading something this morning that taylor frankie paul who we're talking about from six live and more than wives and the cancelled season of The Bachelorette has completely come out and said, I'm going to show you all of my combat.

23:23There is no sense that you just be like, oh my God, I've been driven off social media, delete your account. Delete your account. Like who deletes their account nowadays? Nobody deletes their account. That already feels like something from a decade ago. You just, this is great. It's all engagement and you just turn it into something else. And if you are always on, as all these people we've been talking about are, it doesn't really matter. It just ends up being something that is content that draws more eyeballs. And that's all you need because you can sell them products. It's just money. And I think that's something quite odd.

23:54And as I say, it is entirely dictated by the platforms. And it's changed the nature of what we even consider to be anything detrimental. You know, a feud that in the old days, I mean, Betty Davis and Jane Crawford didn't want their feuds necessarily in the newspapers. They didn't mind if they'd said something really brilliant and bitchy. but one thing they didn't you know you don't want the ongoing background to your whole life to be people talking about this except unless you do and i think that's what's changed um that everything is driven by these platforms and everything is plowed back into them and then even more dividends

24:29Richard Osman:are paid out by them yeah the more there is and and it's you know the one thing that's at the heart of this as well which is why it's so often it's overlooked is is these are not people with a particular job so these are not actors or sports people who actually go you know what i can I'm going to go and make some money and do my job now. This is A, their job 24 hours a day, and B, the only thing that makes the money. It's great to make creator as a job. But it's exactly the same as if you're Rupert Murdoch. Yeah. I mean, it's the same thing. You're using your force of personality and your opinions to get one over on other people and to move the chess pieces around.

25:03Richard Osman:I mean, it's the same gig, right? And so it never sits right with me because I didn't grow up with it. But if you're born into a generation where you absolutely natively understand TikTok and all of these things, then what else would you do? Because you can make$200 million in 10 years if your head is screwed on. You know, that's the thing that you can do. That's what Murdoch would be doing if he was 20. I mean, that's... Because of thought of a live stream. He does that incredible gossip. He is a messy bitch. Oh my God, the messiest? I mean, the single messy... A couple of years ago, he was engaged twice in one year and he's like 92.

25:36I mean, please, please. If you imagine... Taylor Funky Paul could never.

25:39Richard Osman:Yeah. If you imagine Rupert Murdoch was a 23-year-old woman and then show the series of things that happened to him, the relationships he was in and then got out of them, what he did and how he got out of them, the things he bought and the things he sold and how he was to... You would just think this is the messiest bit you ever lived. I'm giving my job just so I can follow it. But no, he's a... I would do my degree in that. Yeah. Imagine Rupert Murdoch as a 23-year-old influencer. I now will be all day. Anyway, I can exclusively reveal because people will wonder which side I'm on in this. I am hashtag Team Alex.

26:12I'm just here for the drama.

26:13Richard Osman:But it also reminds me absolutely of boxers. Yes. And boxers will do this thing of saying, oh my God, I'm going to knock you out. I'm going to, you know, I'm going to kill your family, all this stuff. And then afterwards they're going, you know, what a fighter. He's a great fighter. But the whole, you know, Tyson Fury versus Anthony Joshua. I mean, they have strung that out for such an incredibly long time. I mean, insanely long time. I don't even talk about my enemies. Yeah, you do. You never don't. It's literally, that's all you do. And now they're going to fight each other and it's way, way too late, but everyone's still going to watch and they're going to make hundreds of millions.

26:43Richard Osman:But again, they're men. So it's seen as... It's all in the game. Yeah. But it is, isn't it? Boxing was, boxing sort of understood social media hype before pretty much everything. Boxing and porn, they're always ahead of the game. Shall we go to a break? We've got more messy bitches. Yeah. After the break, starting with Michael Jackson. It's messy bitch week. Yeah. Isn't it just? See you in a moment.

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28:23Richard Osman:Welcome back, everybody. Marina, this week, a new movie opens. It's called Michael. it's about Michael not Barrymore but Jackson Jackson listeners to the podcast have heard us talking about this one before but it's imminent and it's going to be as you say released this week it's made by Lionsgate it is tracking to open enormously I think I said that in my sort of preview of the year I thought it would do really well it's maybe it will get to 75 million in the US and 200 million globally interestingly more globally which is always interesting with these kind of things because he's got a big fan base around the world but that if it if they did get i can't remember what bohemian rhapsody got bohemian rhapsody's um opened to 51 million dollars which is which was huge the biggest ever biopic or music biopic was straight out of compton the nwa one which was 60 million i think i think it's going to beat both of those so i think it's about 50 million uh dollar budget as well bohemian rhapsody and this is the same guy right same producer they spent just over 150 million on this but the budget has since increased to 170 because a number of reshoots were required which we'll get to Bohemian Rhapsody don't forget that was a very troubled production all sorts of things happened there they had Sacha Baron Cohen as the lead and he left and then Bryan Singer had to be removed from the motion picture in light of various he was the director I love Bohemian Rhapsody I know you did as a movie and also my view of that film is if you see that film as the John Deacon story it's the greatest film ever made because it's just like this electrician who plays the drums and it's just like, oh my God, what's happening now?

30:00Richard Osman:And if you see it through the eyes of John Deacon, it will win every Oscar in the world. It resolves into a good film. I think it's a great film. I really enjoyed it. Yeah, I really, really, yeah. Do you not? No. I like it when, you know, they go, Jack walks in and Ray Charles says, hit the road, Jack, and then turns to his piano. Yes, please. Okay. Let's return to Michael, which I think is a film we can both agree has a more complicated story to it. But it's got very... It's got Anton Farqua, who directed Training Day. He's the director. Written by John Logan, who did Gladiator, did The Aviator.

30:39They've got good people in it. And good people in it. Coleman Domingo plays Joe Jackson, Michael's father, one of the great entertainment monsters. Miles Teller, Nia Long. and the estate of Michael Jackson is amongst the producers, which is quite important. What they kept the sort of most important point of the film, I guess, under wraps for a long time with these teaser trailers, which is the performance of Jafar Jackson. Can you believe he's called Jafar? The nephew, I think he's Jermaine's son, who is playing Michael. So by way of background, I mean, we know why we're talking about this film because obviously Michael Jackson was beset by child abuse allegations.

31:21He was cleared of some. There are ongoing cases against the estate. But that estate has proved incredibly resistant to those allegations. He's the 27th biggest artist on Spotify. There's a Cirque du Soleil show all based on the music. Thriller Live was very, very successful, and it gave way to MJ the Musical, which is massive across many countries. And there's a new one opening in the West End quite soon, actually, called Can You Feel It?

31:50Richard Osman:So is that the third Michael Jackson musical? Yeah, in not very many years. That's amazing. And anyway, the director, Anton Farquhar, said, we're going to show the good, the bad and the ugly. And Graham King, the producer, said, we're going to humanise, but not sanitise. And Coleman Domingo said, you know, I think it's actually just trying to give a great examination of an artist. What made the artist who he is? What makes him complicated for you to leave with your own answers? Okay, right. can I just say I think something really interesting is going on with Coleman Domingo because he has not said anything about this film I saw the hot ones he did and he literally mentioned the date of the film that's it he hosted SNL in the US a couple of weeks ago and just did not mention the film you're booked because you're promoting the film so something I don't know whether he thought I'm just going to play one of the great entertainment monsters as I've just said and then thought hang on a second I didn't quite realise what I was getting into here because it's become it's very very controversial and it's interesting what has happened with this script because a version of the script leaked and it's been all over the place not a stolen document but a leaked document but they have summarized it which was that the original film as everyone signed on to started with the raid on neverland when michael jackson and is photographed and is forced to have his genital area photographed because Geordie Chandler, who was this kid who made these allegations against him, had been made to do a drawing of distinguishing marks.

33:21And they opened with that scene, which is quite suddenly out there.

33:25Richard Osman:But also, by the way, if you're a Coleman Domingo or a John Logan, you're like, oh, okay, we're going to do this seriously and take it seriously. That, I would believe, suddenly, oh, this isn't just going to be some sort of whitewash. That original script says that the drawing and the photograph don't match. They haven't gone with that. Now, the film that you're going to see is something different because completely unfathomably, as I say, the estate are a producer on this and the estate are absolutely kind of rapacious in how much money they want to make and how much control they have. But they were responsible for a sort of unbelievable mistake where they didn't realise that the settlement with Geordie Chandler all those years ago said that he could never be depicted in a film or whatever.

34:07and I think the act three of this film the final third was all about this it was all about the allegations so they had to pay for the personally the estate had to fork out the 15 million or whatever it cost for the reshoots the movie that you are going to see if you are going to see it now covers Michael Jackson's rise from being in the Jackson 5 band member family member with all that dreadful family to solo artists and it climaxes with the bad tour in 1988 so what I would say is it's a hell of a sequel if they do one.

34:39Richard Osman:It was going to end with bad either way. Yeah. But they're talking already about this becoming the Michael Jackson universe and they will do future films for other albums and other eras which sort of makes sense. But yeah, very different to the original project as pitched. Yeah. And it's interesting which family members are involved. Obviously, Jermaine is involved and Jafar is in it. Jafar's very involved. Yeah, Jafar's very involved. But Janet Jackson won't speak about it and it's not clear what's happened there. But I don't know whether she's not in it at all. She's not depicted. Paris, one of his three children, you remember there's Prince Paris and now called Biji, but formerly Blanket.

35:24We know him as the crowd surfing baby. And she said it was sugar coated and she doesn't, she's not into it. Paris did. Yeah, she didn't turn up to the premiere or screening, whatever they've just had of it. But the other two children did. So it's all sorts of different kind of views on it. But we have to say that there is still more than one case against the estate accusing Jackson of child abuse. I mean, as I've said before many times, I believe, you know, he was a predatory paedophile. It's just look at the evidence. We know how these things work. It's always boys. They're all about the same age.

35:59This is, if he was really, where are all the girls? Why was there not a sort of multi-opportunity? Everyone can share a bedroom with this man with an alarmed bedroom. But Wade Robson and James Safechuck, who were the two subjects of Leaving Neverland, that documentary, which is brilliant documentary on HBO, their case is still, and it's constantly being given leave to proceed, and they're still involved with all the discovery. You know how long the American legal system takes.

36:27Richard Osman:there's something in that um the loss of shame in this is as well which is everyone just seems able to go look we're going to make a huge amount of money out of this you know let's just keep pushing it and pushing and pushing it and it does if you're janet jackson or various other members of the family you must just just think that i loved my brother but i recognize that that you know there are things that happened in his life that i'm not comfortable with and so so you know i don't want to be part of this billion dollar industry but you know i'm not getting any money off it in her case. You know, I'm fine with separating the artist from the art.

37:00I don't think people should never listen to Michael Jackson or whatever, even though other people do have a different view on that sort of thing. But when a sort of hagiography just tips over into complete image laundering, as we might say has happened here, I guess what they've done is leave such a sort of, they've left it open to say, oh, we'll cover all that in a sequel. Or we'll cover, you know, it would be quite difficult to be the writer of that sequel, I must say. but if they don't do that they will do a sequel because it's obviously going to do so well but if it continues to stay tipping into really quite toxic image laundering then I think when there are victims and alleged victims still out there and their case is still rumbling through I find that pretty difficult and it's a very complicated thing because they haven't made the movie they said they were going to make they now no longer answer questions on that first script because they're saying, oh, it's a, you know, this isn't nothing that's been, it wasn't produced.

37:56This is just, we're just talking about an earlier draft of something. And I think it's interesting just how, as you say, the sort of post-shame thing, that how many people will turn out to see it. And as I say, there's nothing wrong with going to see a movie about Michael Jackson if it were an honest thing, but they have certainly set up a hell of a sequel. I would say that.

38:19Richard Osman:Now, a question for you, but it's also a question for people listening as well. Will you go and see it? Yeah, I will see it because I've seen lots of things. It's a big newsy thing and I want to see exactly how they've done it. I don't think I can talk properly about it unless I have seen it and I will want to probably talk some more about it as time goes on. So yes, I will see it. And anyway, I would listen to Michael Jackson music. And I know that some people find that appalling. But yes, I don't have a sort of problem with that. But I think you have to be realistic about what you're doing. Can we, as a lovely palate cleanser, talk about Binky Felstead?

38:54It involves cake. Yes, this is Binky Felstead. She's, as I said, a sort of second tier, original Made in Chelsea star.

39:02Richard Osman:Slash name in a P.G. Woodhouse novel. Yes. I mean, honestly, she's now an influencer and she's in a sort of living after Made in Chelsea spinoff. If you look at her social media, she's one of those many people who is always on a free holiday. The furniture in our house is paid for everything. It's all the life is she's got three small children and it's all kind of paid for content. anyway she asked for a cake for one of her children's birthdays from a baker called Orange de Suc actually one of our next door neighbours once had a cake from this place paid for and it was absolutely delicious because I had a piece anyway are you getting paid for that at all?

39:45Richard Osman:no no wow because you're an idiot because you could have got a lot from Orange de Suc I could have maxed that yeah it was beautiful this thing and it tasted delicious anyway but they're a small business and she Binky Faust's team and we'll discuss what we think that actually involves got in touch and said could she have a cake in exchange for exposure now the bit that made a mistake going to this particular baker she's called Rashmi Bennett and she's been quite vocal in the past about calling out this sort of thing she completely called it out posted some of the screenshots of sort of you know the begging letter for the cake she made a satirical GoFundMe saying can we all put club together so that this person off Made in Chelsea can get a cake for her son's birthday.

40:30The problem with this is that there's a reason for this is that this has happened so many times to this baker before. She was once asked to make 250 macarons and she boxed them and she had to individually box them. She was told that, you know, she'd get photos. No photos happened, completely ghosted. So you provide this stuff for free. And then sometimes people just don't fulfill their half of the bargain. She's been sort of blackmailed by a blogger who asked for free stuff. And then when she didn't give it the person came outside bought one microphone said oh it's disgusting avoid this shop so um her point of it about it all um Rashmi Bennett's is that um the economics of this very rarely work and the evidence of sales just isn't really there that okay because your your cake has been featured in a celebrity's birthday party thing this is going to be the floodgates of business are about to open and all this money is going to flow towards you she sort of says

41:18Richard Osman:i do it as a warning to others yeah and also this is binky faster it's not tom cruise no No, it's not. Who famously gives many people cakes, which I assume he pays for. Anyway, she wrote back to Binky's rep and she said, the optics are terrible. A rich made in Chelsea style gets a cake for free from a small family run business. What would have made an incredible piece of press was if Binky had paid full price for a cake. And I posted about how an influencer actually paid for their cake. Now the rep has had to do cleanup on it. By the way, this has really kicked off. And this is because, as we keep saying, influencers are becoming like the most hated job, even worse than journalists and estate agents and maybe even serial killers.

41:56And the rep says, you know, this happens all the time. This is a normal thing to do. But the perception is that they ask for absolutely everything at the influencers. And there are also a growing number of people who will just say they're an influencer. You know, I have 700 followers. Please, can you give me a spa weekend? I mean, it's actually fielding the sheer volume of requests. I've talked to quite a lot of people about this and they say, sometimes they say fielding requests is a job in itself because you get so many and they come into your places of work and say, I want to film now. Dealing with all of this.

42:33I mean, you've seen lots of people say in restaurants, we're going to have to ban people with cameras because they're standing there taking up all the space in a restaurant filming and it's just becoming ridiculous.

42:42Richard Osman:People in gyms are constantly filming, which is, you mustn't film in gyms. No. But yeah, it's sort of nonstop. It's all the time. Because influence is one of those self-defined jobs where you can say, oh, I'm an influencer. You go, okay, let's talk through how and why you're an influencer. Take me through the profit and loss in your last year of who you've influenced and how. I agree. Are they influencing, which is what this baker is sort of saying. Now, it was quite interesting in terms of this whole round. It's really blown up and she's done other things before. And she does give the appearance of having everything paid for.

43:15But the numbers were quite interesting. So, you know, people are saying, oh, you'd expect, I would actually even expect something to be given to me. And then I would ask to be paid for the post,£2 ,000,£5 ,000. And, you know, the answer is we're paying you with exposure, which, again, these businesses don't really feel they're getting. You are supposed to say when any of this has happened on the bottom of the post, gifted or sponsored or ad. It's so interesting. They so rarely do. And yet it's happening all the time. And it's very, very difficult to police. I would have said, I mean, what is the policing?

43:56It's like a phone ringing out on the Meta campus somewhere. I mean, no, nobody is policing and say, why didn't you put gifted on your post? You and I have said about a million times, celebrities just pay for your own stuff. It is so much easier. You don't have to put cameras in. You can just pay for your own things. having said that this is her entire job and actually it's bizarre she lives in a almost like an ancient system of barter when you think that the house is fully furnished by a company that I won't bother naming the holidays are paid for all the things that you might spend money on are sort of being given to you and you're giving exposure but that's it you're not actually being paid for a lot of this but it's buying you things in your life and I you know I've talked about that illusion of a team i often think that i think she you almost always have a publicist if you're someone with her level of followers but that publicist would work for lots of different

44:48Richard Osman:people would it be your own personal publicist okay so it's work for many different people and all people like you so it's like saying that my news agent but i'm very aware that my news agent also sells newspapers to other people yes yes and it's mainly i sometimes think when they're talking about a team it's sort of just you chat gpt and a shared publicist but when i explain that thing about you know every single thing in the life being paid for the clothes the holidays the things in the house um probably quite a lot of the food you see the precariousness of it this is really bad this route for her because she's now less desirable as a person because people think she's a grifter and she gets everything paid for she just went really i heard she was on a holiday last week when this all happened so she will return to understanding that her stock has gone right down and that is the precariousness of all of these things again we're talking about the platforms, but it's true.

45:37There's another Made in Chelsea star original cast, a guy called Ollie Locke, who's in some big drama at the moment that he didn't pay the rent on his house, him and his husband. And I don't know, I'm not even going to get into the details of that one. What I will say is he tried to explain that his, you know, it's hard to run your influencer income and money coming, you know, I've mismanaged things, etc. But he did it by giving a tearful interview saying I'm having a sort of breakdown. And I just thought, don't do that. I'm so sorry. You look a mess now. and people don't want to give free things to messes and this is your whole business.

46:09I'm so sorry to say, but this is the precariousness of the life. It requires you to seem happy and breezy and aspirational and if you seem like a grifter, then fewer people are going to want to give you things.

46:23Richard Osman:Well, we like it when people earn their living, I think. Well, yeah, and the language now being used to describe to people is like, oh, you're in a house you didn't pay for, you get free stuff, these people don't work while you do, This is exactly the same accusations that they would level against what they perceive to be fake asylum seekers. Like in the public mind. And by the way, lots of them are living abroad and paying no tax. So, I mean, sorry, what is it that you think you're contributing to anybody or anything? And also, this is not all influences. We know that. And there are certainly not all that, you know, lots and lots of people will tell you things are brilliant on social media and for good reasons.

47:03Richard Osman:but there is a subclass of people and it's nice to see them get caught out every now and again do you know what here's the basic rule of thumb pay for your child's birthday cake it's so basic and if you find someone in life who cannot afford to pay for their child's birthday cake why don't you pay for one of theirs as well that's what you should be doing that's what you should be doing with your life and with your money is looking after other people not trying to just sort of get more and more things and putting your arms around things and bringing cakes into your house well where she been at that baker not that long ago she created a really clever cake a watermelon cake and she gave um a percentage of all the sales to save the children's gaza repeal and an influencer just got in touch and said can i have one for my birthday for free please like okay this cake particularly no but again the whole there is the backlash is definitely real and you see people, it's such a huge, the takedown industry is becoming worth a lot of money.

48:03And the perception that people are against the backdrop of a cost of living crisis are, you know, getting free luxuries, are not working, are getting everything given to them when you don't have to is extraordinary. And the mapping onto it of areas of the immigration debate or anything else is actually slightly wild. But I would definitely say that it is a very precarious situation because once you don't seem desirable or you've been involved in some sort of backlash like this then very many fewer people want to give you anything yeah and then you're gonna have to steal a cake and then yeah that's gonna be your only option left because you're not gonna be able to afford one and do a tearful interview about it yeah three tears i say if there's a if there's a

48:46Richard Osman:lesson from today's show it's it's it's it's about the death of shame isn't it yeah yeah Should we have a moral at the end of every episode? Oh my God, we should do that. Any recommendations? Well, mine is a great show. But when we were in Paris, we had one TV channel that we could watch in English and it was BBC One. Great. My daughter, who is 11, ended up therefore watching, when we got back from the day, lots of shows that she wouldn't normally see because although she watches iPlayer, she doesn't see the schedule. And she was like, I love this show Countryfile. I was like, sorry, what? She said, it's really good.

49:24It's really interesting. I was like, yeah, Countryfile. By the way, it's one of the biggest shows on TV, which is something that a lot of people don't realise. If you told them that, they wouldn't necessarily realise, but it's absolutely enormous. And yeah, I would like to recommend the BBC One scheduled television show Countryfile.

49:39Richard Osman:You know, they're not fashionable, but they're still beautifully made and still get numbers that if you put them on social media would be like beyond enormous. You know, if you had the sort of numbers that country file gets week in week out the size of cake you could get for free is beyond enormous it would be larger than our country it would be enormous um i am going to recommend well actually i'll recommend because i mentioned at the start the new season of um at the prison agency i recommended it before but this new season is back and it's just the houses are unbelievable but it's also it's it's just about that quite extraordinary family i'll have to say and the things that happen to them and you know even if you don't really love property shows that that's that's the one and it feels slightly realer than a lot of those things uh as well so i love uh l 'agence parisienne right that about finishes us for today we will be back on thursday with the questions and answers can i can i just say before that because on last week's question and answer thing we i was talking about getting bill paxton and bill pullman mixed up and i said to people are there any actors you get mixed up the response to that has been so insane and we'll go through Bigger Than Bookshelves It is And that means something Bigger Than Bookshelves So we'll go through some of the celebrities and actors who people always thought was the other person on Thursday I'm dying for that And then on Friday for our members we have the final part of our Spice Girls epic I will miss that when it's gone But other than that we'll see you on Thursday See you on Thursday

51:23Spring just slid into your DMs. Grab that boho look for that rooftop dinner, those sandals that can keep up with you, and hang some string lights to give your patio a glow up. Spring's calling. Ross, work your magic.