The Art Of Match Of The Day

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1:32Hello, and welcome to this episode of The Rest is Entertainment, questions and answers edition. I'm Marina Hyde. And I am Richard Osman. This is going out on Boxing Day. Peek behind the curtain. We are not recording it on Boxing Day. No, we're not in that way that this morning once tried to pretend they're recording on Christmas Day and there were just like people randomly walking to work in the background. Not the worst thing this morning if you ever tried to pretend. It's not the worst thing, is it? Merry Christmas, everyone. Listen, we're going to keep this tight because it's lovely to chat to you, but you've probably got other things to be doing.

2:05But we've got some fun questions to answer in a Christmas spirit. Yes, you've got leftovers to mainline and so have we. Matthew Wishart has a question for you, Marina. I saw a post about Joseph playing in Edinburgh and they were congratulated on that opening night last night but it had been playing for almost two weeks. I thought opening night would be night one. Yes, but opening night is actually the first official night and what happens before a show goes, before that, is what's called previews. Previews actually weren't allowed for many years. They were only allowed in, I think, 1968 and even then you could do sort of like a couple for charity and then you had to go first into it and have the critics there now you can be in a rehearsal room as much as you like as anyone will always tell you and once you get it on a stage lots of things might need to change and that includes the script it might include songs and so you want to kind of have the chance to work out in front of an audience but before the critics are invited in to feast or pass their judgment or whatever it is.

3:04Almost all big things do that. In the old days, as I say, you used to have to have to do it somewhere else. But you can change a lot. We've talked about Wicked before. And when they first did that, they did that in San Francisco. And Stephen Schwartz, the guy who wrote the music for all of that, said that doing three months between then and when it opened on Broadway was totally saved the show. Completely reworked lots and lots of it. And it made a real different in Into the Woods Stephen Sondheim wrote one of the biggest songs in the middle of previews and they only sort of put it on towards the end which is Last Midnight and you sort of need it but as like lots of things it's got, it's kind of broken down a bit but they can go on way too long, that Spider-Man Into the Dark I think you too did the music for that didn't they do you know that had 182 previews technically incredibly complex, I think it just didn't work it was a disaster anyway But it was delayed and delayed.

4:00And in the end, the critics were like, we're just going to buy tickets and we're going to go in. Because they've always had this nice arrangement where we understand, we are people of the theatre ourselves, and we understand that you must have a chance to work things out. But of course, like many things, the internet has broken it. Also, by the way, preview tickets used to be much cheaper, which was good. So you were paying for not seeing the final polished version. But of course, now people come in and just post about it on the internet. And they're not, I don't want to say not proper critics, because, you know, everyone's a critic.

4:31And so it's sort of broken down that thing. And also preview prices have gone up. And now people think, well, I'm entitled to say what I like about it when I've paid this much. But you do still have the opening night. And I mean, I spoke to a director recently who was like, we're going to be in preview for four weeks, which I thought was pretty long. That's a lot. But it can happen. But opening night is quite stressful because you've got all the sort of friends and family, all the critics. Opening night is also press night, essentially. So they're both the same thing. And yeah, it feels unusual, doesn't it?

4:59But if you're making a film, you do a bit of rehearsal, then you film it, then you can edit it. The fascinating thing about a play or a musical is there's so many moving parts. It's the same as having a soft launch in a new restaurant, isn't it? Sometimes a restaurant will open in your area and they say, look, we're actually going to be opening in three weeks, but we need to test out our kitchens. We need to test out our menus. Would you like to come along and have an incredibly cut price food and fill past the community? And that's the idea. I accidentally went to one of those recently i thought oh is it already open and i went in and we and then it came to the bill and it was half price we were very excited i would have ordered differently was it good yeah exactly was it good it was terrific yes um so it's one of those things that is absolutely essential you know it's it's not anyone you know it's not like oh you should have rehearsed more it's just you cannot until you are there until you're actually on there and sometimes until the theater is full and sometimes you hear when audiences are laughing when they're reacting to things you know until you just until you see it, until the director and the writers are just sitting there in their little box watching the whole thing and watching the audience and hearing what they say coming out.

6:03And then hopefully by press night, you're in a stage where you think, this is the version of the play that we really, really want to show people. Because in the theatre still, those reviews are a huge deal and can make or break plays in a way that they can't make or break TV shows quite so much anymore. But the trouble with these online reviews is that they have, quite often, and producers and directors will now tell you, it was ruined before it started, and it wasn't right that people posted things when we were in preview. We were working things out, and a lot of that had changed, but the buzz can be created quite easily these days.

6:36But the big reason you'd have previews before opening night is, the great thing about TV and film is that thing of, we can fix it in post. That's what we can say, we can fix this in post. The one thing you have to say about theatre is you cannot fix it in post, so you have to fix it in pre. Ah, question about signed copies of books, Richard. This must very much be for you. By Sam Whiteman, he says that, oh, it could be a lady. Could be. Is it true that as an author, if you sign a book in a bookshop, then that means the bookshop can't return that copy should it flop? Do some authors charge around bookshops signing as many as they can, even if that's not what the bookshop wants?

7:13Yes, a signed book is a sold book, is a mantra in the book industry. But what that means is actually, you know, the world of signed books is quite heavily regulated. And I'm always in a situation, the different bookshops want signed copies of their books. If you sign books, they sell immediately. So it's almost meaningless that they say a signed book is a sold book because they're never returning them anyway. If you sign, however many you sign, they will sell those first. People will always buy the signed copies first. So WH Smiths will want signed copies, Waterstones will want signed copies, the supermarkets, the Indies, you know, America, Australia.

7:54So everyone wants signed copies. And it's just a really, really, it just works for booksellers, you know, because especially if books are gifted, it's just a little extra something that makes it sort of a better present or just makes it feel more personal to you. So it's one of those things that right from the beginning of time absolutely works. And if you look at vintage books now, if you've got a signed one, they're worth an absolute fortune. They've always been worth more money. But they do sell very well. I've always traditionally tried to sign a lot. When you're signing for other countries and things and suddenly you're doing 45 ,000, you can work out if it takes you four seconds to sign a book, times that by 45 ,000 and see how long that takes you.

8:36Oh my God, I can't even imagine. I did 5 ,000 and I did it in two days and it sent me absolutely mad. I saw someone I knew in the street and thought, I am basically like the Jack Nicholson character in The Shining. I've been writing the same thing, sadly, by your name. You forget how your signature works sometimes. You've set yourself completely. In a way that when you look at any word, it ceases to mean anything. It's a pure existential crisis that you're doing with every time you put your name down. But I do love to do it. And I love it because I love booksellers. And also, I just think it's nice.

9:06It's a nice thing to have. So I always try and do as many as I could. This year, I wasn't able to do quite so many because I was doing all sorts of bits and bobs. But then a few weeks ago, I had a day off. So I said to my publishers, let's sign 3 ,000 for indies. Just because so just the indie bookshops up and down the country and people who've been using their indie bookshops up to Christmas. You had a day off for an existential crisis. It's fine by me. But, you know, the indies are always so supportive of authors. And it's just it's a nice thing because indies have to charge you more money for your book.

9:35And it's not because they're con artists that say this all the time. it's because they've got bricks and mortar to look after and they've got bills that are not you know they it costs more to run a small independent bookstore so they have to charge more and if you can give them signed copies which means people will go directly to them to buy those then it's a really really great thing to do so it's one of those things that seems to work for everyone um if you were to go into a bookshop and sign your own books um i guess it would be okay most books would not have you know 400 copies in their local waterstone so you know most people you wouldn't walk in and sign 400 copies which then they couldn't get rid of i think if you're a local author and you want to sign books in a bookshop people are absolutely delighted and it will mean that you know those books will be displayed the front and center so yeah i don't think it's a thing that can be abused particularly absolutely right sam that you know a signed book cannot be returned so if you've got you know the boris johnson books which are hugely over ordered by bookstores before Christmas, there are piles of those which will be returned to the publisher after Christmas.

10:38And essentially the publisher will lose money on all of those. The bookstore won't lose a penny. If they had been signed, they wouldn't have ever to be returned. But the truth is the signed ones would have been the first ones to have sold. I've never heard of a situation where someone was sitting on a pile of, you know, 400 signed copies of something, a bookstore and just thinking, no, I can't. There's nothing I can do here because I can't send them back. So it's one of those things, signings, that works for authors, works for bookstores, works for readers, works for Christmas, works for birthdays.

11:11It's one of those things that just seems to work. The other thing, of course, is in-person book signings. I'd rather go and tour 10 different bookstores and sign 100 books in each one than do one signing somewhere that people could come to because it's... Well, it's much less efficient. It takes a very long time. Yeah, and it's lovely for that one bookstore. Yeah. But I'd rather be lovely for... It's not scalable. ...20 bookstores, exactly. The one place where you can come along and absolutely get stuff dedicated and that is book festivals. Yes. So if you do that, you'll get queues and you can have things dedicated.

11:44But by and large, the best thing for bookstores, the best thing for authors is you just sign lots and lots of copies and they get sent off around the country and people can pick them up. But yeah, it's not a system that can be abused, I don't think, but it's one of the rare systems in show business that just seems to work for everybody. And if you've got a signed copy of We Solved Murders This Christmas, I apologize that some of my signatures are not as good as others. Actually, knowing the backstory is kind of evolving. Ingrid came in when I was signing some American copies this summer and she just looked over my shoulder and said no.

12:21And I went, you know, you're absolutely right. and then I had to, you know, the signature was getting so scrawly that I had to get rid of the 20 previous ones I'd done and start again. You have to have total silence though because otherwise you end up writing down the thing that people are saying. I see, but I listen, I have podcasts. I'm quite happy with that. I'll sit and listen to podcasts. I'll listen to, I don't know if you know, the rest is history. Heard of it, I think. Yeah. So yeah, I'll sit and listen to podcasts. But yes, they're lovely things for everybody. Well, on that note, should we go to some adverts?

12:53Yeah, I should say so.

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14:54Welcome back, everybody. Robert Cardwell has a question for Marina. It could be for either of us, I suppose, but it's going to Marina. Robert, I hope that's OK. I want you to chime in, please. Well, listen, I might do. I've just finished Black Doves, which we recommended on Christmas Eve, and they have scenes featuring the entrance of 10 Downing Street. is there a ready-made set of the entrance out there somewhere which can be hired? It's on all sorts of shows, isn't it, Downing Street? Yes, it ends up being part of our stories quite often. One of the most popular ones is the Royal Society of Arts, which is actually round the corner from our place in Spotify and John Adams Street where we normally record.

15:31Yeah, we could throw a stone and hit it from there, couldn't we? We're not there while we're recording this one, but it's actually only, it's very close, and it's very close to Westminster in general, but it's almost an identical match. It's the same architect, I think, isn't it? We've done the row of houses. Yes. I'm also going to talk a little bit about the House of Commons set because there have been so many of those over the years. The only House of Commons set used to be Granada TV, which is one of the regional TV franchises, if you remember from your rival's history lesson. They used to have one.

16:01They built it for First Among Equals, which is one of Geoffrey Archer's many and different novels. And they had it for that. And then it got used for The New Statesman, which was a sitcom about an MP. And then Paul Abbott, the dramatist, bought it because he wanted it for State of Play. No, really? Yeah, and then it went to Wimbledon Studios. And then Wimbledon Studios shut down and they auctioned it. And it honestly started on for about, you could buy the House of Commons, you know, the opening bid on the House of Commons was something like 50p, but I mean, I think it went up further. So I asked Stephen Frears, he is a friend of mine who has made a lot of, the director has made a lot of things which involve the House of Commons.

16:39He says, oh, poor Hugh Grant, that is, for A Very English Scandal where he played Jeremy Thorpe. The Commons was built in a barn, but the editor asked for a wider shot, which was obviously unavailable. Oh, that's funny. Then they've done other ones on a stage. There used to be a permanent set at Old Oak Common in Acton, where HS2 now finishes. We shot the deal there, but that's gone. Then they did build a set for the redacted Churchill film. So they constantly sort of build this, but it's quite a big set, that. And so it takes a lot to store. The one in Granada, I think, was like 5 ,000 square foot.

17:12But even when they stored it, it still needed 2 ,500 square foot because of the nature of the galleries and things like that. My absolute favorite thing of going to TV center still is you go into the outer ring around the studios and they store all the daytime ITV sets. I was there just before Christmas and every single Christmas tree and decoration from Lorraine, Good Morning Britain, This Morning, Loose Women, they were all in the same place just this incredible winter wonderland of bizarre TV Christmas trip I love I love all TV sets I cannot I'm just a sort of and also all movie sets anything like that they did actually I'm just trying to think that they did let I think they've let people shoot inside the actual House of Commons chamber now there was one with Sean Dooley and it was about Harold Wilson oh really yeah I don't want a little bit of politics here but it is empty most of the time yeah you know what I mean you know what I'm saying even when it's full Do you know what I mean?

18:08Sorry, that's a bit political. Sorry, guys. And I don't know, I think they managed, I think Lindsay Hoyle, who was the speaker, they managed to get permission for that because he'd been an MP and had known Wilson, whatever it was, but they are now occasionally allowing it to be used. And I'm not quite sure, if you work in the House of Commons and would like to explain the esoterica about how some things are and some things aren't allowed to shoot in there. But as I say, you know, if it's not being used. Yeah, but yeah, so that John Adams Street one is interesting. I talked to Joe Barton who wrote Black Doves, Not the Footballer.

18:41And he was saying that the building is identical. It's exactly the same architect. But they had to replace the front door because the front door was different. So they had to bring in their own black front door with the 10 on it. And for Black Doves, they had to put a Christmas tree outside it as well. The zero, with an O on it. It's a one and an O. They didn't have a zero when they were originally putting on the actual number 10. Is that right? Is that an O? It's got that very round zero. If you look at the zero in the 10, it's very round. Is that right? Yes, it is. 1-0. Yeah, 1-0 Downing Street.

19:10Not going to catch on, but it's... I bet you don't get that on. The rest is politics. Rory Stewart's not telling you that, is he? Perhaps they did it in a bonus episode, or perhaps they just talk about Die Hard like we do in our bonus episodes. The most incredible one is the diplomat, where I think just because of the money they had, pretty much every single location, they go to Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the outside of the Ambassador's Winfield House. it's all the real places it's absolutely incredible I guess if you throw enough money at it then people will rent it out to you you can do what you like yeah Robert Wisely has one here Robert Wisely is a good name yes it is you can see that in one of your one of the wise men he has often wondered how the commentary works for the highlights on Match of the Day with it being the BBC I'm not aware of them having the rights to show the full games anywhere apart from the radio and this is different commentary does the commentator do the whole game just for the use of the highlights or is there somewhere that the full games are shown I think it's a question a lot of people ask actually because you can watch Match of the Day for years and years and years and you do think how are they getting those commentaries together so quickly and I think people think that people come in and sort of do commentary over the highlights and it's not the case BBC contractually have to provide full commentary on every single Premier League game and so they do that so every single game has full commentary which can be accessed by Five Live and the highlights are cut with the commentary as it actually is, which is an incredibly difficult skill.

20:39It is, but if you were just doing it over the highlights, it would sound completely different. You'd be so knowing. Something's happened, but this isn't going to mean much. You have to do it. Not as live, it is live. Yeah, because you would be so tempted to go, I think he's going to score in a minute. Yeah. I said he was. So no, absolutely, it's pictures are cut. the words of cup but every single game has a full commentary at all times so when you watch it it is impressive because if you think about when they start the highlights at what part of a move are they starting the highlights and you then have to start the commentary at that same point and it's hard because if a commentator is halfway through an anecdote about one time he saw Alan Shearer and Anandos and a goal happens you think we need the whole first half of that anecdote about Alan Shearer and Anandos now so we have to go back further than we wanted in these highlights.

21:32So it's an incredibly difficult skill, made even more difficult by the fact that, you know, they're cutting those packages usually between 5pm and, you know, 10pm on a Saturday night as well. It's so skillful. It's incredibly skillful. But all the pundits watch all the games together with the commentary. I've been in that room. I've been in that room. Yeah. Next year, by the way, we'll get to talk about the replacement strategy for Gary as well. Absolutely. And what happens to match of the day. I saw loads of comments saying, oh this is the end of match of the day and you think match of the day actually is in really really robust health while ratings are falling everywhere on every terrestrial channel actually match of the day remains exactly where it was and it's people love to hate it because you know sports fans have to have an opinion on everything but if you are someone desperate for the downfall of match of the day i have i i have bad news for you it's sticking around for a while but we will talk about that because it's interesting yeah absolutely we will um is that us done i think that is done we've got to do a short one because it's Boxing Day it's Boxing Day people haven't got the energy they've got to get to the leftovers they've got to get to the strawberry creams please don't an absolute pleasure a joy we're going to be talking on New Year's Eve we'll be back with you on New Year's Eve yeah with all sorts of fun things to talk about what's come out on Boxing Day is all a Squid Game so if you want to have a little look at that we'll be talking a bit about that don't worry we're not going to be talking about the whole season or anything like that but just the return of Squid Game absolutely and also giving our heroes and villains of 2024.

23:02See you on New Year's Eve. For that and so much more, see you next Tuesday.

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