The Beckhams vs The Peltz: Class War

22:14Richard Osman:It's like, listen, never go to war in Afghanistan. You'll still be there 300 years later, won't you? It's exactly, this is Afghanistan without any question. Yeah. We should do a podcast about regret, but where would we do it? In the shadow of a Hindu Kush. Really good idea. After the break, shall we talk about more fun celebrity stories? Yes. Bit of Robbie, bit of Alan Carr, bit of Nigella. Let's do that. Excellent. See you in a moment.

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24:04Welcome back, everybody. Now, we're going to talk about Robbie Williams, who's had his 16th number one album.

24:11Richard Osman:It's nice to be able to talk about Robbie and music again, because we've done the documentary and all that kind of stuff, and we forget he's a musician. On Friday, Robbie became the most successful artist in UK albums history. He had his 16th number one album. He had been tied for a number of years. In fact, since the Better Man soundtrack went to number one, he'd been tied with the Beatles. That was his 15th. I mean, to be fair, the Beatles had a couple of number ones that were sort of, oh, the best of the best of the Beatles. Okay, fine. but he now has 16 UK number ones and is the most successful act in the history of the British album chart the album is called Britpop which is pretty on the nose if you listen to it it's actually not a bad album but Robbie never makes a bad album he absolutely never does anything that's not obvious but it's nice that somebody is what about swing when you're winning doing that yeah but again if you like that sort of thing he never makes a bad album if you like that sort of thing yeah but if you want a sort of younger go Bradley Walsh then Swing When You're Winning is exactly what you're looking for that was his second biggest selling album of all time by the way Swing When You're Winning that was over 7 million sales that was back when albums used to sell 7 million which this album will not so Britpop you listen to it absolutely chock full of Oasis references and Verve references and songs that sound like Elastica and songs that sound like Supergrass one of them written by Gaz Coombs from Supergrass so it's a real throwback stuff it is he said himself i spent so much time sort of looking backwards because they stopped playing my music on the radio so i didn't really know how to look forwards into what i was doing in music so i kept looking backwards so i thought well if i'm gonna look backwards i might as well absolutely commit to this thing so he's called it brit pop he will commit to a bit i'll say that for him he really will the front cover i have to say the front cover is very very good which is the picture of him from glastonbury the famous picture of him in the red um adidas or adidas tracksuit with the bleach blonde hair and the tooth blacked out.

26:07Richard Osman:It's that in a frame in the National Gallery with protesters throwing orange paint over it in t-shirts saying, just stop pop. And that's quite a good front cover. Again, it's Route 1, but Route 1 in a good way. So is Robbie Williams really the most successful artist in the history of British albums? And of course, the answer to that is no. He's wanted to have this 16th number one for a very, very long time. He says he wants it more than anything. and that it makes his imposter syndrome come out, but he kind of always gives reign to that, and that he wants to, like, he just feels like it's my ego, and I know what it is, but I know it, I name it, but I still want it, sort of thing.

26:45Richard Osman:So, exactly, the album was due out. It was launched kind of last August. He did an event at the Groucho, of course, because he's trying to hark back to the 90s and Britpop. Funny to think, as people who lived through the 90s and Britpop, quite what a historical record that is now. It's like us looking back to the early days of Skiffle. But Britpop is absolutely a museum piece now. So he did it at the Groucho Club and the album's coming out on October the 10th. You would have noticed, keen listener and viewer, it is not October the 10th. It is in fact January of the following year. So it's coming out October the 10th.

27:25Richard Osman:And he made no bones about it. He said, I want this to be my 16th number one album. I want to be the most successful albums artist in the history of British music. What happened in October, Taylor Swift decided she was going to release The Life of a Showgirl, at which point Robbie Williams went, I might not release my album now. I'm not going to do that. So he decides instead to release it this week. Taylor Swift has not got a new album out this week. I'll tell you who's got new albums out this week. Most weeks she has. Yeah, most weeks she actually does, which we'll get to actually. He was competing this week with the new album from Madison Beer.

27:58Yeah.

27:58Richard Osman:You remember Madison Beer with a new album from Sleaford Mods. And listen, I love Sleaford Mods, but, you know, they're not Taylor Swift. And do you know what? Neither have they ever pretended to be. No. And the new album from Nathan Evans and St. Phoenix. And Nathan Evans is the guy who did the Weller Man sea shanty song. Yeah. I was listening to that album this morning. It's actually really good. I'm going to recommend the Nathan Evans and St. Phoenix album. Anyway, he releases it in a very, very soft week for albums. And it went to number one, understandably. and as I say it's the 16th number one beating the Beatles but the whole of the end we have to be fair and say the entire of the entertainment industry every single one of its strands is about people thinking about release dates I mean from what they want to go up against whether it be films books TV shows anything you're thinking well I don't think we'll put it up against you know the first week of January because that's when Trader starts and there's no point everybody's thinking of that all the time albums it's always been incredible if you want to have a number one single always release it the week after christmas or the week after that it's just it's incredibly soft time for those things which is what robbie has done absolutely fair play to him because you know you can't have your 16th number one album unless you've had a lot of number one albums before so he has he's sold 75 million records before so you know he's able to get to his 16th because he's had lots before but to his 16 number one albums so he's had 16 the beatles have had 15 but hides a different story which is his albums in total have spent 38 weeks at number one so 38 weeks across those 16 number one albums the Beatles across their 15 albums have had 176 weeks at number one so the Beatles are demonstrably and massively the more successful act sold an awful lot more records than him he sold 75 million they sold something like 300 million by the way a record that will never be surpassed because no one buys records anymore.

29:50Richard Osman:But also, God bless him, it is not a record that is going to last more than I would say a year because Taylor Swift is already on 14 UK number one albums. And because of, you know, re-recording some of her stuff and this out of the other, she'll release a couple in this year and she will overtake Robbie as well. So it's... The reason I found it interesting is the album itself is incredibly nostalgic. As I say, I quite liked it. I mean, it's, you know, he writes with good people. He's always written with good people. And as I say, Gaz Coombs has written something on this. Freddie Wexler has written something on this.

30:27Richard Osman:But the nostalgia of wanting to be number one as well, I thought was interesting. In an era of streaming, and we come from an era where, for example, having a number one single was a big deal. Yeah. And now it's hugely not. And Robbie's lead off track from this album is called Rocket, which has Tony Iomi from Black Sabbath playing guitar on it. And that was a number 36 hit, Rocket. So, you know, we live in a different age from when Madness or Dexy's Midnight Runners could, you know, go up to a number one after a couple of weeks. But he wanted to have a number one album in an era where that doesn't mean anything anymore, where you can get to have a number one album with 17 ,000 sales sometimes.

31:09Richard Osman:times he wanted to do it he released a record that could have been recorded in the 90s he put it on the trajectory that could have been in the 90s as well and the whole thing well it suits his speaking of brands it suits his brand doesn't it which has become I speak incredibly candidly about my demons and my inner voices and my kind of weaknesses and my competitiveness and my ego so this is the perfect story isn't it that like I have to have this why do I have to have this it's worthless yeah it is it's like he's got a tight five hours of interview material on that um and i've watched quite a lot of it already in the documentary he's got to get up in the morning you know it's like you know when phil taylor had won you know 16 world titles you know you've got to get out of bed for some reason uh and you know and this is robbie robbie's only ever had two albums in his entire history that didn't go to number one so you know like he's only had 18 albums and you know live at nebworth went to number two kept off number one by dido uh and um and what a cursed i know and reality killed the video star which is a absolute ai robbie title yeah got to number two as well and that was kept off number one by jls so you know he's uh he's he's he's he's lived through the generations robbie um in terms of the songs he has he has uh he's written a song with gary barlow well i'm looking forward to the take that the take that documentary I think it's coming out like this podcast will come out on Tuesday and the Take That documentary on Netflix will be out on Tuesday.

32:36Richard Osman:Yeah, which will be absolutely fascinating to see because there's obviously a detente between Robbie and Gary now and there wasn't always. But they've written a song together. Do you know what the song they've written together is about? Remind me because I do know this. It's about Morrissey. Oh, yes, of course. Sorry, I'm doing something ridiculous. Why is it that everything on this podcast leads back to the same things? Yeah. Every single time. Yeah, they've written a song for reasons best known to themselves about Morrissey and, you know, absolutely fair play to them. Robbie has weighed in on the AI debate.

33:11Richard Osman:He's written a ballad about AI called Human, which begins, This is a letter from the future. And I was really looking forward to that. I was listening to the album thinking, I hope this... Why were you? Why was I? Why were you looking forward to it? Robbie Williams' Ruminations on AI. Okay. No, I was looking forward to that because I thought, I bet there's something on this album that's so bad, it'll be fun to talk about. But actually, it's not bad. Did it pluck at your heartstrings? It didn't pluck at my heartstrings, but it's a nice song. Yeah. You know, and everything on this is a nice song.

33:43Richard Osman:And there's a song that literally sounds note for note like Elastica. And the Gaz Coombs song sounds note for note like Blockbuster by Sweet. But there's some good stuff on there. You know, he always picks very, very good collaborators. It's a good time of Vogue for it. John Niven, the brilliant, who I love in all his books, he's written a play about the blurb Oasis battle for number one. And it's called The Battle and it's coming at Birmingham Rep. I think that I really want to see that. I will go to Birmingham and see that. But I do think I just wanted to, you know, in this world where, you know, we talk about people just because they're they do documentaries and they're on social media and stuff like that, that he's gone into a studio.

34:23Richard Osman:he's teamed up with a load of musicians real musicians real human beings making real music released it in the way he used to in the 90s it's absurd that it's number one it doesn't mean anything in terms of the Beatles and stuff like that but his career means something and I think he's allowed to have that number one album and for the year that he's going to hold that record of the most successful artist in UK album history I think if it makes you happy then God bless you and thank you for the music I hope it fills the gap nothing fills the gap no I know he spends a lot of time telling us I know but nothing ever will Robbie you know that shall we finish with a couple of moves in the world of television television talent television talent so Bake Off Prue is leaving Bake Off okay Prue Leith and as you know feels like she's been there three series of course she's been there ten years which feels like enough and she's 86 years old and she has earned a rest and you know apart from Paul Hollywood, everyone leaves Bake Off eventually.

35:19Richard Osman:I think they've had 10 separate hosts. But I think genuinely, I think it's a masterstroke they're bringing in to replace her. Nigella. Nigella. That, I'm sorry, I love Prue, she's great, but this is a mega trade-up. This is like when Christian Vail replaces George Clooney as Batman. This is like, what's his name? Jon Stewart replacing Craig Kilbourne on the Daily Show. This is like, Nigella is a star, okay? And she actually does bring with her a different audience. Nigella is a sort of... And a huge audience in America and a huge audience in Australia, which would do a big deal for her. It makes it higher prestige.

35:51Richard Osman:Yeah. I think it works for her as well. It really works for her. Can I... Yes, because it's a sort of full circle to some degree. Although How to Eat is an amazing... It's brilliant and it's kind of like her original kind of blockbuster cookbook. Domestic Goddess with all the cakes and things like that was really the thing that sort of caught a particular moment. And yeah, Bake Off is building its next great dynasty. Yeah, I think... I'll tell you what we should do. Oh, Liverpool. One point. In the 70s and 80s. It's very similar. She's the Dalgleish, basically. No, she's the Bob Paisley to Prue Leith's Bill Shankly.

36:25Richard Osman:Well, no, I think... Mary Berry was Shankly. Bacoff is the managers and she's the Dalgleish, you know, coming up after Keegan and she's like, it's going to be even better. Okay, I think that Bacoff is Liverpool and I think that the judges are the managers and I think the hosts are the players. I love this. I need to think harder about this in my head. She's Kenny Dalgleish. I bet she gets that a lot, Nigella. Yeah. She's doing that so much. She'll be switching off now. Whereas I think she's Joe Fagan. She probably gets less. Okay, so back to the cakes. She probably gets less. You know, we did the special Q &A thing, which was about the best ever comebacks.

37:00Richard Osman:Yes, I love doing that. Which people absolutely loved, and I love doing. We should do one, best ever replacements. Yes. Like when somebody left, and everyone's like, oh my God, this is a disaster. Someone came in, but actually, it was like the best thing that ever happened. Shall we, let's note that down. Let's note that. and do that as best ever replacements. But Nigella may well be tricky because actually Prue is great. And so, you know, it's, you know, Nigella would have to be great, great, great in order to be one of the great replacements. But I think it's one of those rare things where it really, really, really works for both parties.

37:30Richard Osman:Yeah. It works for Bake Off and it will work for Nigella and it will help Bake Off around the world, which is incredibly important to them. It's in 90 countries. It's incredible. Bake Off. In America, in America it's the Great British Baking Show because I think Pillsbury own Bake Off as a brand. Yes, they own Bake Off, yeah. So they can't call it that. But it's huge over there. It's huge in Australia. Anyway, I think that's a winner. But the other guy who's had a show... Now, I think this is interesting. Alan Carr. Now, he's had a new show announced this week, which is very on brand since his Celebrity Traitors win, which is...

38:03Castle Man. It's for Disney Plus. And it's going to be the story of him. He genuinely, this is true, you know, we know he likes Homemaker. we know he likes all this stuff he's always wanted he's dreamed of having a castle and he's going to buy a castle has he and yeah well and and we're going to see he's and he'll he'll have to you know he'll have to do up and run a castle which he was going to do anyway yeah which he was going to do anyway as he said uh but he's got okay first of all can we just say how many shows

38:31Richard Osman:he's got right now i mean he really does so he does interior design masters yeah tick love it he does alan and amanda's adventure tick love it so he's done the there's a greek one on at the The Moment, the Spanish one, Italian one. He does Alan Carr's Picture Slam for BBC Saturday night. He's got the new show on Channel 4, Secret Genius, with Susie Dent, where you find people whose brains work in interesting and unusual ways. He's got a sitcom, Changing Ends. The sitcom, Changing Ends, which is, you know, he produces, writes, you know, he's like on that constantly. RuPaul's Drag Race as a guest judge.

39:05Richard Osman:Password, the ITV panel show with Stephen Mangan and Daisy Mae Cooper. he's on the new season of Last One Laughing as well. To my counting, currently or very soon to have eight different shows on British TV. And I saw him and Amanda Holden last week saying that they turned down strictly. Which is nonsense. Because of course they didn't. It was never offered to them. I agree with that. I don't think that's the case. I would be fairly confident in saying that has not yet been offered to anybody. I mean, it will be in the next month or so. They might have had a preliminary conversation, which I think is...

39:40Richard Osman:Or, you know, they said to the, you know, the agent has said, would you consider Alan? And they'd say, we're not considering Alan. And so they might be kind of... But no, no one's sat in a room with Alan and Amanda and said, would you two like to present Strictly? I was told yesterday by someone with absolute certainty, said, oh, amazing that Bradley Walsh and Alex Jones are hosting Strictly. And I was like, I don't think they are hosting Strictly. No. Alex Jones would be good. I'm not saying that Bradley wouldn't. But no, they have not decided who's going to host Strictly. And they don't, you know, that's a big old show.

40:12Richard Osman:It's a big old commitment. It has to be somebody who loves that show. Probably somebody who's been involved in that show to some extent, you know, and you can have a wild card. But my understanding is no one's in, no one's out. Two men, two women, man and a woman. Everything is still on the table there. But yeah, not Alan and Amanda. Alan doesn't need a ninth show anyway. But 10 years ago, you could not have eight shows on television at the same time. No. because too many people watched TV. Now it is so splintered and everything is so siloed that actually you can. That's the interesting thing about it.

40:45The other interesting thing I think is that 10 years ago that kind of unscripted out in the world format was not particularly prestige. You kind of, if you wanted to be on a big expensive studio show, much more. And that, whereas now something, and obviously the absolute kind of template for it all is Clarkson's Farm, which obviously isn't a farming programme. It's a star-led, project-based.

41:07Richard Osman:And Castle Man is made by the same company. It's made by the same production company. It's a real-world project. It's the same kind of thing in the sense that it's got that inbuilt narrative drive where things are going to go wrong. It will have lots of locals. It will have lots of rules. Yeah, it'll be renovations. It'll be planning authorities. All the fun stuff. And there's a clear mission. and it's low stakes existentially. Yeah. In the same way that Clarkson's Farm is. And it'll be, oh, I've been told that I, listen, I just, I've, I just worked with all of these people before. I've been told that every castle has to have a coat of arms.

41:46Richard Osman:So I'm going to see the heraldic person at Edinburgh University to find a car coat of arms and we're doing this out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's like seven minutes of a VT. And then, you know, suddenly with the streamers burst its bank and you've got to shore that up. And it's, you know, it'd be fun because it's fun to spend your time with Alan Carr but yeah it's like all of these things are like conflict but and you're going to hate this cosy conflict cosy conflict it is isn't it it's the mania for labels but we really want these things where they are quest shows where these obstacles keep coming and the drama and the comedy comes out of the hero not being able to reach their goal which is what Carlson's Farm is but also I do think there's something about both those shows that could that has a certain hit element to it because it's at a time where people are sort of thinking does the rules of our country work any longer also i'm interested in heritage i'm interested in sort of all of these sort of things there's something about that yeah that it's in a kind of psychological space that the nation's in at the moment looking backwards doing things with your own hands yes building things creating things and it's yeah it's all of that is there and it will and with someone at the heart of it and also escape from the cities yeah it's you know everything has been in cities for forever apart from obviously you know things like country file which aren't in the cities and then suddenly you're like people want to be out of them they want a form of escapism um and and they want it to be much more it much more kind of lavishly produced to some extent than the shows about just going to buy a house in the countryside they want actually one person it's interesting that the star is really the format in all of these things and that i suppose that they've just been finding they're desperate after the traitors to find the exact format for alan to be alan i mean he wants another chat show i saw him saying he wanted another chat you know there's pilots of all sorts of things but i think it proves two things firstly you couldn't be on eight shows ten years ago because it would be too much but actually these days it's you know he's always on anyway on Instagram and this side or the other and these are just things that feed into that and I think secondly that he is a piece of talent who works on every single channel there isn't you know BBC1 he works BBC2 he works ITV he works Channel 4 he works and there's very few 5 he works Disney he works I mean there's very few people who do that who work across all of those different things and have that kind of recognition and have a love from a view in public.

44:19Richard Osman:And he's clearly willing to do it as well. You know, he clearly wants to work and do interesting things and fun things. And it's, listen, I'll be watching it. Oh yeah, me too. But does he really want a castle? I don't know. What should, it's a question of thinking if as a piece of talent, is what is it you should pretend that you've always wanted to do in order for them to follow you and make us a documentary? Because firstly, you get a TV commission out of it. secondly you know that like renovating a castle is probably really difficult but if you're renovating a castle with a television company behind you you're not having to ring up the plasterer you know they're doing all that and if and if the if the electrician doesn't arrive firstly it's good telly and secondly you know that the production manager will be getting another electrician to come in and see you so you know why not god bless alan i think some people when they get their opportunity you know like romish and people say oh romish is on everything he'd be good on everything you know he's good on everything and he's nice to work with so people keep offering new stuff he's on stage in the west end at the moment and he's got i don't know how is he doing it yeah it's his work ethic is absolutely insane but that's what happens if you if you're good at everything and you say yes to everything that's the that's the sort of career you have but um nigella we approve going to bake off and alan karl we approve of buying your own castle tick signed off by us rubber stamp it rubber stamp it any recommendations i mean recommendations you just have to say that if you if you didn't watch the traitors last week you have to how does it deliver every time it's so extraordinary yeah and the new god the i've heard a couple of the names for the celeb one and it's going to be but mind you the the thing about hearing names for the celeb one is any name you hear you go oh my god that would be amazing it's almost impossible to say a name you know if i if it's john bon jovi you'd be going oh my god john bon jovi in the castle oh i can really see that oh my god john bon jovi would be amazing with sue pollard but that's and frankie dettori oh my god that is amazing those by the way are not names that i've heard those are off the top of my head but yes uh definitely that but i'm also can i recommend something you've already recommended yeah um which is the book 1929 by andrew ross sorkin about the great crash it's yeah i'm listening to he reads it himself it's so brilliant uh so thank you for recommending it and I will double recommend.

46:35Richard Osman:Can I tell you something interesting about one of our previous recommendations which is When the Cranes Fly South by Lisa Ridsson, the book that my mum recommended to me and I recommended. It's fascinating this week that Harriet from The Traders, her books have not gone back into the top 50 which I'm fascinated by because she spoke about them on the show and it doesn't take a lot to sort of push herself into that top 50 but thus far it hasn't had that impact. Yeah she weirded everyone out that's why. Well I think her new book I think will be a different thing and you know that stuff will happen there but that book When the Cranes Fly South as I say came from my mum's recommendation is now in the top 10 oh really yeah isn't that lovely oh that's wonderful it's doing really great business and listen I'm not recommending it again but I'm mentioning it again because it is absolutely terrific but yes I thought that was absolutely lovely and thank you to all our listeners who bought it as well because that's lovely to propel it into into that position very very chuffed about that right we will be back on Thursday with a Q &A as always and a bonus episode on Friday behind the scenes at Aardman which will be a lot of fun yeah exactly all the questions lots of people we've always had Aardman questions come in as well so we sort of put everything to them how you make it all that stuff it's a fascinating listen as you'd imagine because that's a process unlike almost any other television company and so it's I think you will enjoy that one if you want to become a member it's restosentertainment.com have free listening all that kind of malarkey either way we'll see you on Thursday see you on Thursday

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