The Books You Must Read Before Turning 18

0:00This episode is brought to you by our friends at Sky. Now, they really know how to put on a show and to make it easy for us to enjoy them. Everything is just there. No digging around, no endless scrolling. Absolutely. And here's the magic. If you know what you're in the mood for, just say it into your remote. You want something specific, say sweet pea, and sweet pea will appear. If you want something, a genre, just say show me horror, and your sky will show you horror movies, horror TV shows, anything in that genre. It really is magic. It's not magic, it's technology, but it feels like magic. It's like having a shortcut to your perfect evening.

0:31You speak, it listens, and suddenly you're three episodes in. A feast of entertainment right at your fingertips. Feast, smorgasbord, banquet. Which makes me very hungry. Yeah. I wonder if you can get snacks from your remote. Try it. I'm being told you can't. It's just the world of entertainment at your fingertips. The world of food, you have to go elsewhere. So if you're ready to dive into top-notch entertainment, just head to sky.com to learn more. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible. Financial geniuses. Monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds.

1:12Visit Progressive.com to see if you could save. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.

1:28Hello and welcome to this episode of The Rest is Entertainment, questions and answers edition. I'm Marina Hyde. And I'm Richard Osman. Ciao, Marina. Ciao, Richard. I'm still in Italy. Como estas? That's not Italian. Oh, maybe it is. I thought it was Spanish. Well, don't correct anyone as you're walking around the street. I do that in restaurants all the time. Actually, your Italian is not great. I think you'll find you're speaking Spanish. I feel bad because Ingrid is fluent. I feel so. Literally, I just flounder in the background. Yeah, I don't have to say anything. A true holiday. A true holiday where I do nothing at all.

2:03But you're going to be saying some stuff now, let me tell you. Hit me with a question. Yes, from Italy to France. And Dan Naylor. Thank you, Dan. Dan asks, I've just read an article about Bono's concert film receiving a seven-minute standing ovation at Cannes. All of that sounds absurd to me. what is the history of the long-standing ovation at Cannes? It seems like they do it for every film. You're totally right. You could eat a croissant and you'd get a standing ovation. They do do it for every single film. Actually, what's weird is that all the trade publications, certainly the US trade publications all cover it, and they all time them slightly differently.

2:37And so if you actually have become so bored of the coverage of this seven minutes meaning something, if you actually go and look at things like Deadline Now and The Hollywood Reporter and Variety, no one is actually there with the stopwatch, I don't think. Otherwise, why all week or last week have I been reading different accounts of how long each ovation was? But I suppose they're roughly in the right ballpark. They do these close-ups and you see these people clapping. Some of them have been ridiculous. The longest ever is Pan's Labyrinth. That was 22 minutes. Wow. Right, that's a fifth of the film's runtime.

3:08Sentimental Value this year, I want to say, got 19 minutes. Now, again, you know, it's Elle Fanning, where Kim Trier directed it. So that's right up there with the big ones. OK, so Joker got eight minutes in 2019. Its sequel, which, as we know, absolutely fell through the floor as a cinematic endeavour, got 12 and a half minutes. OK, they don't know. They'll just clap anything. And also, I do find it slightly funny that given the highbrow nature of French cinema and all of its various pretensions, that a sort of light entertainment clapometer is regarded as the measuring instrument of choice as to how good a film is.

3:47It does all sound absurd, just as you say, Dan. But funnily enough, I was talking to a friend of mine who is a producer and who has four films showing at Cannes this year and said it is so stressful. You know instantly how well a film has done, it's going to do, whether it's hit where you want it to hit. And I said, but how? What from the clapping? I don't know, part of it, but it's in the air, it's in a vibe it's incredibly stressed the way people are talking about it the buzz in the town and you know and you know you know bear in mind your movie might not be out for eight months and there's not a whole lot you can do after then which is why in some ways lots of producers say let's not do it at Cannes but a lot of the directors of course want to say I want it to be Cannes or Venice Cannes is sort of top of the tree where they want to put it and a lot of producers think is it really worth that is that risk and reward thing there's something in the air and to some extent the applause is part of it So even though it's ridiculous, it does sort of weirdly a small part of what matters in a very, very kind of tetchy and nervy and stressful week for producers.

4:49I'd hate it because I always look at the end time of a film whenever I go to the cinema. If I've got to add 22 minutes to that, no thanks. But also, I always feel self-conscious doing a standing ovation. If you're in a theatre or something, because when I'm sat down, I always sit on the outside of a row. I always, always do. Firstly, it's a bit more leg round. But secondly, you don't really have people behind you. But sometimes you have to sit with people behind you. And then the whole way through the theatre, I'm feeling incredibly guilty because I'm sitting in front of someone. And then if people are doing a stand in ovation, I have to stand up in front of someone.

5:22That's even worse. I'm doubling my height of it. You could do a sitting ovation and it would mean the same. Sometimes I do. But if you're ever a theatre performer and you see me sitting down, it's only because there's someone short behind me. and I want them to be able to see the curtain call. But also if you did a standing ovation, then just by sheer commanding virtue of your height, we'd all be taking our lead off you as to when to sit down. For no other reason than, I'll just do what Richard's doing. I mean, I do that quite a lot anyway, but I would really be just waiting for you. You'd be like the host picking up the knife and fork first or something.

5:55Oh, I can see if we can all start. Naturally, we'd gravitate towards you as the ovation leader. Yeah, you're right. It's a lot of pressure for you. Don't ever go to Cannes. You'd hate it anyway. Oh, yeah, I would never. Don't worry about that. You'll never see me in Cannes, I don't think. Now, this next one is an absolutely lovely question. It's from Ellie Ashworth. She says, I'm a big reader and I'm turning 18 in a couple of months. I was wondering what three books do you recommend I should read before I turn 18 or when I turn 18? Such a great question, isn't it? Because you immediately think, what should I read before 18?

6:27And you think, okay, I'm 18 now. what am I ready for I love this Eddie thank you so much firstly happy birthday for for for when it happens pre-18 I've got a few suggestions I suspect you might have a few suggestions as well I thought the prime of Miss Jean Brody by Muriel Spark would be a great book to read before you're 18 because it's about that time of life and it's if you know if it's from a different age but actually all the messages of it resonate yeah I reread it I think last summer and it was even And sort of, yes, it's incredibly modern and resonant in terms of that. And a great thing to read when you're 17 as well.

7:02I would say The Prime of Miss June Brodie. Have you got one? Well, I would say, can I talk about types of books? When I was 18, I went to a girls' school and there were lots of great readers. And I don't want to denigrate any of the types of books people were reading. But I remember, you know, coming out of that. And we didn't read sort of big historical biographies. We didn't read things like that. And in a funny kind of way, I think we didn't think that they were for us. and that, you know, this is a long time ago, perhaps they were for people's brothers or for men in general. And I remember coming close to some lots of clever boys when I was about 18 and thinking, but they've read all these things.

7:38And I remember thinking, well, why shouldn't I? Why should I not start reading books about, you know, doesn't have to be the great men of history, many of the great women of history. And I started reading quite kind of challenging historical books at that age because I thought, otherwise, if I don't do it now, then I'm just sort of saying this stuff isn't for me. and I think that's rubbish. You know, I can't think of all the interesting ones I've read over the time. I remember reading a brilliant Frida Kahlo one. Funnily enough, I was just asking Dominic Sandbrook for brilliant books about ancient Egypt and he said, we know so little about the period but there is a really good, brilliantly written biography of Cleopatra by Stacey Schiff.

8:12So I've bought that now. But that's the sort of thing I would have enjoyed reading when I was 18. Just thinking, you have to get your eye in in a weird way because they do seem kind of weighty and hard and whatever. But once you get through that, one of my recommendations is for types of books that you instinctively feel, oh, maybe they're not for me. Just do the opposite. Do the opposite. Can I say one thing about reading when you're 17 that's tricky? It's because you're still at school and you are still having to learn things and being tested on those things. And it gives you a certain attitude towards what it is that you read, which is, is this improving me in some way?

8:46What do I get out of this? And actually, when you get older, you completely lose that. You just read for pleasure and you read because you want to learn things. And the younger you can think, I can read a book about Cleopatra or Frida Kahlo just because I want to enrich myself. Yeah, I'm remembering which book, the first historical biography that I read was Roy Jenkins' one on Winston Churchill. It's a single volume and it's brilliant. Okay, so I pushed myself through that. It was hard. It's hard, but it's also brilliantly written, by the way, I have to say, because it was different sorts of things to what I've been reading before.

9:17But now I can read those things. They're not just for boys. They're not just for other people. And I think that a lot of that has changed. Oh great, Eddie's thinking now I have to read a 500 page Roy Jenkins biography. No, she's not thinking that and I knew you'd say that. But you know what? Women have often felt excluded out of that type of reading. And my point is you're not excluded out of any type of reading and you're not excluded from anything that you feel like, oh, I don't think that's meant for me. Just read it, honestly. And you're beginning your swashbuckling adventures where, as you say, Richard, no one tells you what to read anymore.

9:47I think you have to read Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I think you probably have to. I think you certainly have to acquaint yourself with Douglas Adams before you're 18 and what it is that he does. While your mind is still flexible enough to kind of work out what it is he's doing and work out the worlds that he's teaching about. A great funny book. If you've not read Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy before 18, I would think that would be mandatory. I agree. I'm doing another category now, but I don't know if you have any idea of what you want to do, Ellie. I certainly had absolutely no idea and I continue to have no idea for a very long time after the age of 18.

10:20having said that I knew what I liked reading about so I I or I got to so I loved reading books about you know entertainment and musicians and movies and you know things I was never going to do I never I knew I didn't want to direct a movie and I knew I didn't want you know want to be a rock musician but I read a lot about that sort of thing and it's funny now like everything it makes sense in retrospect here I am every week talking about those things but I started reading about all those things that was when you could start reading things and just think I'm interested in this and when I went to university when I was 18 you know I remember thinking god I can get any book up now any book at all because I had access to a library with everything now we just call it the internet but anyway honestly would call up books about things like silversmithing or mazes or renaissance gardens or whatever and a huge amount of time yes I would just look at the pictures but I would but you could get anything and so just going on a tour and thinking oh hang on now that's made me think I want to know about that and now I want to know that and now I want to know what Hong Kong looked like in the 1930s and you could do all of those things so I sort of I suppose travelled in a library then and that was really interesting now you can do that a lot more easily online and I think that's the same but I nonetheless going on one of those journeys that just there's always another thing that takes you somewhere else read books about things and funnily enough they may come in useful right when you're as old as me so what you're saying is don't read the books you're being told to read I'll give my third one to read before you're 18 I'll give it a choice.

11:45Noughts and Crosses by Mallory Blackman. I'm sure you've read it. If you've not, absolutely have to cross that off the list. She's a genius. Or if you've not read Agatha Christie, it's a perfect time to start. It's pre-18. Maybe start with And Then There Were None, something like that. So I would say Muriel Spark, Douglas Adams, Mallory Blackman slash Agatha Christie are my three. And you're saying Roy Jenkins' biography of Churchill, something about Renaissance Gardens. And what's your third one, Highway Code? I love that you think that's what I've been saying. I'm so sorry that's all you heard.

12:14I'm so sorry it must be nice not to think that you were limited for certain things but I wanted to look outwards I'm now going to recommend a specific book I read when I was 18 called L 'Emprier's Dictionary and it's by a guy called Lawrence Norfolk and I remember just honestly picking it up off a bookshop table because it must have just come out it was such an extraordinary kind of weird, malarial amazing, novelistic adventure set in historical France it was so crazy and I thought he had the most amazing mind and I was fascinated to see where it went. I have no idea how it was reviewed, whether people love it, but it made such a huge impression on me at that age.

12:51What was the name again? Lawrence Norfolk. It's called L 'Omprier's Dictionary. I'm going to suggest a perfect book to read after you at 18, The Secret History, Donna Tartt, if you've not read that. So that's great because also it's about getting a little bit older and it's about making your way into the world and something extraordinary happening and it's just a brilliantly written, beautiful book. Oh, yeah, all those books, but by those, that sort of American fiction writers, Less Than Zero, Bretty Stinellis. Yeah. That was a big one when you were 18. So I'll also add, because we've given you lots and lots of recommendations there, might be a good time to start Martin Amos.

13:24We'll work out if you like him or not. Maybe start with London Fields if you don't like him. Well, I thought about that. I wonder whether people still feel the same about him. Maybe that was just a generational thing. And, you know, whoever the Martin Amos is of now, I don't know, but maybe people just feel like that's Sally Rooney. Also I'd recommend maybe Slaughterhouse-Five or any Kurt Vonnegut if you've not read him. And also Great Gatsby because I think it speaks to our time. I know those are quite cliched choices. Now I feel guilty because yours are also brilliantly esoteric and smart. Mine?

13:55Mine is weird. They're not even proper choices as usual. But they were just areas that I became interested in. But the key thing I would say is happy birthday, Ellie. Yeah, happy birthday, Ellie. Yeah, and your message, which is read what people wouldn't expect you to read, is a very beautiful one. That took longer than we expected, I think. Shall we go to a break? I'm so sorry. Yes, let's go to a break.

14:19Our friends at Sky, proud partners of The Rest is Entertainment, have made finding something to watch as easy as saying what you're in the mood for. Say comedy, true crime, whatever you like into your remote, and Sky will bring up a range of shows and movies from all of your apps and channels in an instance. Now, this month, we're all about dramas. Can I, talking about great dramas, talk about Poker Face on Sky TV? I know I've talked on the podcast before about how much I love it. It is back for a new series. It is as brilliant as the previous one as well. If you've not seen the first one, go right back and watch it.

14:49If you love Columbo, you'll absolutely love this show. It's even got the same font and things. Natasha Lyonne, great guest stars, really lovely plots, beautifully shot. Every single episode, a brand new story and a brand new world. and just that absolute classic, you know, crime of the week type show. And she's an amazing central character. She's terrific. She can tell if anyone is lying is the sort of central shtick. But they have such fun with that. It's not just like, oh, you did it. It's always, it leads her into as much trouble as it does crime solving. But I love Poker Face. Season one and season two is out now as well.

15:26Really recommend that. Can I just say, I'm pushing people back to this. if you didn't watch on the BBC Ludwig the first time round, go back because I have recently been going back because I'm too stupid to work out all the little Easter eggs and puzzles and I honestly didn't notice in the first time round. By the way, the characters are so good. David Mitchell and Anna Maxwell Martin. It's absolutely brilliant. But when I'd finished watching it, everyone went, oh, did you really enjoy all those little Easter eggs and puzzles? If you really like crosswords and stuff, I was like, sorry, what? He is a crossword setter.

15:57I hadn't actually seen any of them. So I've now gone back with the aid of the internet. And I have to say, it's a very enriching watch again. And by the way, it was such a massive hit and it's coming back and it's going to be even better. But yeah, it really helps to go back and try and understand some of the puzzles if you weren't aware of them occurring the first time around. Yes. And my lovely friend Alan Connor, who was the first question editor on House of Games, still does it now, was one of the puzzle consultants on it. So he creates lots of the puzzles. He used to be the head of questions on Only Connect as well.

16:26He did, do you know the Inside No. 9 episode with the crossword? He did that crossword. So he's like the go-to puzzle guy. Anyway, if you've heard something you fancy there, add it to your own playlist on Sky. It's a simple way to keep all of your favourites in one place. And with Gangs of London and The Last of Us, it's a strong line up there already. This podcast is brought to you by Sky, where you can watch season three of And Just Like That, the next chapter in the Sex and the City story. What is Carrie Bretter up to now, Marina? Well, she has said goodbye to her beloved apartment. She's moved into a townhouse in Gramercy Park.

16:59New chapter, new book. She is writing, you'll love this, she's writing Romanticy, Richard. Yes, that genre we have already pretended to understand for this podcast. Just romance and fantasy. Listen, it's what I'm doing next. The Thursday Romanticy Club. Now, Miranda's adjusting to post-shay life. Charlotte is navigating family life while reliving her 30s alongside younger colleagues. And Carrie, she is still catastrophically allergic to stability. But try, watch the brand new season of And Just Like That, available 30th of May on Sky.

17:35Welcome back, everybody. Now, I'm going to try and be much more formatted in the second half. And speaking of great formats, can we talk about Race Across the World? Because Kate Emery has sent in a brilliant question. Are there people in the production team dedicated to mapping the route each season of Race Across the World? and do they themselves have to try it out before the contestants? Thank you, Kate. Yes, it's a very, very long, drawn-out process. As you know, the new series is China, that sort of area. So the first thing they'll do is what we would do if we were going on holiday, which is you research every route around every bit of China.

18:10You're looking for the places you'd like to visit. You start making inquiries as to whether that's somewhere you could visit. You look into whether there's issues with visas and what have you. So you start very, very, very basically. you then start drawing up kind of possible routes because you know how many episodes you've got you know how many contestants you've got you know exactly how the show is going to work done it before so you start thinking well we definitely want to be in beijing we definitely want to go to shanghai could we go to nanjing where are we going to cross the border where is there an interesting selection of transport you know where you have to get a ferry to an island or do you get a you know train to the ferry just ways that you know you can mix up the contestants and give them options so you'll do that you draw a huge bible by the way this is tim harcourt who's the exec on race across the world has very kindly answered all sorts of race across the world questions for us and he says at this stage you've got these detailed maps possible routes possible types of transport you know it's always important that there's two or three different ways to reach a destination that's the key if there's not if there's like one boat or one train that covers a whole leg, then it's not of interest.

19:18So then Tim says they send out a team. So two people will go out and stress test the routes. And those two people, one of them has access to what the trains are, what the ferries are, different ways of traveling in different countries, different ways of traveling in different environments. The other person has none of it. Now, the person who has the information is not allowed to tell the other person any of it. So it's there because as a producer would know they know essentially what they're trying to achieve but the other person is absolutely seeing the whole thing blind it throws up completely new ideas and completely new routes that would not have occurred to them as well so you get the the best of both worlds they then come back with lots of footage and all sorts of things as well report back on exactly what it is they've done exactly what happened you know that actually this interchange we thought where you can get a coach and then there's a train it doesn't exist anymore it's not there anymore Or, you know, it's closed down for repairs.

20:13Or you go there and actually it's a three-day delay. We thought it was an eight-hour delay. It's a three-day delay. So you get all of that information. And Tim says everyone wants to get these, the jobs of being the people who stress test the routes. They go, oh, my God, that sounds like the most fun. It's like doing the show yourself, you know, without any pressure. And he says all of them come back and go, oh, my God, that's the hardest thing I ever did. That was like virtually impossible. but when they get back you know you've got all the information you've done in the UK you've got all the information you've got on the road as well and then those people are often join the production crew and will be going on those routes themselves anyway so it just means that every single thing has been stress tested in every possible way we had another question actually someone was asking about what happens when contestants get knocked out do they go straight home and I thought that was interesting as well because not only is it the contestants it's the people who are following them it's their production crew essentially and you know sometimes they just don't even reach a checkpoint they're given a couple of days to decompress to enjoy themselves you know wherever they are and then yeah they go straight home but the crew are then sent out to bolster the other crews who are following the other contestants because as you see as you get towards the end of that show some of the drone shots you're doing some of the big location stuff you're doing is so technical and so involved actually the more people you can get the more producer directors you get who are all in the same place the better but it's one of those jobs i think if you wanted to work in television that feels like the absolute dream because you're traveling the world but it is absolute graft from start to finish and lovely that you've got this huge hit show so it feels like you're doing something that people are loving and people are watching but my god in the same way that the contestants really go through it which is why we love that show so much the crew really really goes through it as well but I love the fact that you send out two people one of them knows everything the other one knows nothing and the person who knows everything is not allowed to tell you anything that's incredible how do you think we'd do if we were contestants on this contestants yeah oh terribly of all the shows in the world i would hate to be on that show so much because the thing that would drive me mad is like the 15 hour coach journeys yeah and you know full well that no one's seeing that all anyone's seeing is you being stressed just beforehand because you can't find the bus station and then you've been crotchety afterwards because you've had no sleep for 15 hours on a chinese bus and when you're watching it you go oh hold on all people are seeing is me being stressed and then annoyed and they didn't see the 15 hours where i literally was just lost my mind with boredom and we had to stop 15 times and you know there was no toilets no one saw any of that so they just go that guy's a bit moody isn't it and i'll be like yeah you'd be moody if you just had to sit next to marina for 15 hours on a bus and she's got loads of leg room and i've got none i'm getting annoyed about the leg room even now i think we'd hear a lot about your leg room wouldn't you yeah but none of it would make the edit i'd love it would you yeah i'd love to do it but i don't sleep anyway so what's the difference i don't i don't sleep but i know that i of course you know i'm not i'm not stupid enough to think i wouldn't be kind of exposed for moments of cautionness but i would love the adventure i must say you would be in a mason team with your husband and that would be that would be because you have very very complementary skill sets and one of you would be carrying the team at any given time you're looking like he has none no skill set to offer you kieran would be really good on it yeah he's really practical on things like that particularly on travel yeah but i think i could bring something i would love to do vibes you'd bring the vibes i'm sure they'd have you on the celebrity one he has driven me across america three times now and i bought incredible vibes in the passenger seat like it was a huge you know i was basically number one for vibes marina very much on vibes and snacks right come on ask me one okay i have a question for you from David Adam.

23:56I was looking through some old DVDs at my local library and I picked up the classic that is Running Man and came across what I think might be one of the best taglines ever. It is the year 2019. The Running Man is a deadly game no one has ever survived. But Schwarzenegger has yet to play. A few questions if I may. Do you both have a favourite tagline? How important do you think they are? In the streaming age has their importance been lost? What has perhaps replaced them. Okay, I could do a podcast series on this. I love this. First of all, I love that tag. That's interesting, that tagline, isn't it?

24:27Because by that stage, we know that Schwarzenegger's become absolutely huge as an action star, but they're using his name rather than the character's name, which is really, there's lots of interesting things about that. Basically, a tagline is a piece of copywriting. I've always been fascinated by advertising copywriting from the sort of golden age. Movie advertising copywriting got to stay the same, really, because you were still doing the same thing. And it mainly came off movie posters. It's a key part of the visual art, really I suppose you would say. Probably the greatest one maybe is Alien.

24:54In space no one can hear you scream. Ridley Scott who directed Alien he was an ad man and so he would have really cared about that. But do you know who came up? It's really interesting the story of this. Barbara Gipps. It's usually Salman Rushdie. Okay it isn't Salman Rushdie in this case. Her husband Barbara Gipps' husband whose name I'm afraid is lost to me but he was designing the poster art for it and she had five kids. She was in the car with four of them one night and she was going along Riverside Drive in New York and she saw the sort of black water of the river and she thought, God, space must be so lonely.

25:23And she said, what about this for that movie that Dad's doing the art for? And her teenage daughter thought it was really good. It does that key thing where it creates a vibe. It's so intriguing. You know exactly what the vibe is, but it's no spoilers. It's nothing, you know, it's absolutely brilliant. It's created a whole mood and it's done it with such economy of words. I mean, it's so few words. It tells you immediately it's sci-fi and it's psychological horror. Just without, you know, everyone understands it. But it pulls you in, and that's what great advertising copywriting does. And she became a copywriter for movies off the back of that.

25:55No way. And then there are certain ones that I just sort of remember, and they're so tied in with the visual arts of the poster. So I'm thinking of really old ones. I don't know if you've ever seen Whatever Happened to Baby Jane. Sister, sister, oh so fair, why is there blood all over her hair? So there were things like that. But then, I don't know, those are old ones. Obviously, Jaws, You'll Never Go in the Water Again, which turned out to be prophetic. And then ones for bad movies like Jaws 2, just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water. That's brilliant. A lot of the horror is great.

26:25Fly, be afraid, be very afraid. That's a good one. One of my other favourites, Mean Streets. You don't make up for your sins in church. You do it in the streets. And that's actually the first line that you hear in the movie, in the black, before it even comes up. The movie is, you don't make up for your sins in church. You do it in the streets. You do it at home. The rest is bullshit. And you know it. And it's like a bad dream Harvey Keitel's character is having. So I love that. Bonnie and Clyde, this tells you the whole story. I mean, they're young, they're in love, and they kill people. What's that one?