The BrewDog Famechaser

0:03Hello and welcome to this episode of The Restless Entertainment with me Marina Hyde and me Richard osmond hello marina hello richard how are you yeah i'm all right we've got some interesting things to talk about this week our first item i'm really really looking forward to um how has your week been it's been super i don't know if you watch one of the worst tv spectacles by the way that i've ever seen on tv just so low rent and crap presidential inauguration i didn't but i tell you there was one star in it my girl lauren sanchez did you see my girl she was the best thing in it everybody everybody saw lauren and if you didn't know who she was before last week you do now so yes i mean we picked her as a star early but we did and you know talking of which friend of the podcast there's going to be a new star in the firmament yeah and we're going to be talking about him we're going to talk about how a celebrity is born and someone who's attempting to thrust this way into the uh into the world of celebrity is the person we are talking about first we will get to that we are going to talk about as our last item we're going to talk about traitors so if you have seen it great you watch it if you've not seen it just avoid the last little bit of the podcast until you have turn off your set at that point exactly look away now look away with your ears now and we are also talking about we're talking about we're updating we talked to you a bit about this before christmas the blake lively and justin baldoni lawsuit which is mushrooming it is certainly quite quite out of control now all sorts of other players are coming in and it's going to remain a sort of developing story so we're going to update you where we are at with that particular obsession of mine and many others.

1:34Now, we begin every now and again, astronomers are lucky enough with high-powered telescopes to see the birth of a star. It tells them a great deal about the world that they live in. And we're going to talk about the birth of a star. Who are we going to talk about and why? If you've been feeling a disturbance in the fabric of the news continuum, the star that is trying to be born is, I don't know if you're familiar with a guy called James Watt. Now, he is BrewDog's co-founder. Not the steam engine guy. The steam engine guy, no. And you might be wondering, at the moment, as I am, why is this guy being beamed into my consciousness like three times a week?

2:09It is impossible to have a January dry of this guy. Okay, I've seen interviews, controversial Instagram posts, LinkedIn posts. He's a real LinkedIn legend, this guy, let me tell you. I don't understand LinkedIn. Can we do at some point what LinkedIn is? Oh my God, we need to do a massive deed on. We're just a three-parter on LinkedIn. Have you heard of a media blitz? This is more of a media blitzkrieg, okay? James Watt and I assume his publicist wish to have full spectrum dominance of the news by mid-February. And yeah, I'm buying into that. Every time I look anywhere, he is there in a sort of shacket talking about business or something.

2:44Anyway, but most recently announcing that he was launching a new TV show with the biggest prize in British TV history,£2 million. It's called House of Unicorns. And I'm actually thinking, why hasn't he called it James Watt's House of Unicorns? because correct me if I'm wrong, Richard, but in a house of title, should you not have your own name in it? By unicorns, I'm guessing he is talking about entrepreneurs building billion pound businesses rather than actual unicorns. Yes, it's a startup. A unicorn is a startup company that is valued at over a billion. And as I say, this is a TV show in which he is attempting supposedly to find, I have to say it's a TV show supposedly, but we'll come to that in a minute, in which he's attempting to find the next unicorn.

3:24And we will dig into the realities and unrealities of that at the moment. But who is James Watt? Now, can I give a little primer on him? Oh, my God, I'd love it. I tell you who's loving this, James Watt. Okay, well, let's see if he does by the end. He was born to a millionaire. Was he? Yeah, yeah. This is a real richest-to-riches story. Someone like Philip Green, who, well, again, they cultivate the air of, like, it's, you know, Self-made. Yeah, yeah. But in fact, it's a richest-to-riches story. Anyway, the father was a fisherman, but he was a millionaire. and by the way, a huge amount of James Watt's identity and we'll come to this later, is it's almost like it's actually a form of identity politics.

4:04He talks about fishermen and being a fisherman so much. Every time he wants to hire someone for Brewdog, he says, I just think, what would you be like standing next to me on a, I mean, I'm paraphrasing his quote here, in a North Atlantic storm. And it's like, is this just someone you're going to pay like minimum wage to work in a Las Vegas bar? Because I don't think it's really going to come up. But anyway, or less than minimum wage. Yeah, and it turns out his dad is Captain Birdseye. Yeah, his dad's Captain Birdseye. Anyway, but he starts BrewDog with a friend of his. It does very, very well.

4:32They do a huge amount of how it does. And BrewDog, they make all, you know, Elvis juice, Punk IPA, all those sort of very colourful branded beers. I think it's the seventh biggest brewery in the UK, which, by the way, we're going to be talking a lot about this guy. That is an achievement in itself. There's plenty of people born to millionaires who set up companies who have not done what they've done. Him and this guy, Martin Dickey, who he met when he was doing a brewing degree. So it's an extraordinary empire. They are built in one way. Yeah, and they did it. They sent beer to the Kremlin. They did, you know, they talk, there's a lot of it as a philosophy, you know, and it's a sort of punk philosophy.

5:11Yeah. I think, you know, there's all these expressions that he says things like, generic beer is made by pimps and thieves. Okay, I mean, you know. Have you ever seen, you know, Alistair Green, who does amazing videos on the internet. He does an amazing kind of punk beer series of commercials, which are very, very, very funny. Oh, I need to see that. And anyone who doesn't follow Alistair Green on any of the social media channels must do immediately. He's very funny. But anyway, he's absolutely nailed James Watt. Well, James Watt also, you know, in that era of the real sort of the pomp of TED Talks, he does a lot of TED Talks.

5:48You know, nobody's more important than your work. Nothing in your business is more important to you than your workforce, all that sort of stuff. And yet, Richard, he is dogged by accusations that he runs a toxic workplace. So 300 staff, that is quite a lot, signed a letter saying that it was a toxic culture at the company of Brewdog and that it was all his fault. Then last year, 15 staff spoke to a BBC disclosures programme saying that they had to try and get away quickly at the end of their shift, all sorts of things. He says all of this is untrue. Listen, he stepped back from being Brewdog CEO, although he is now listed as its captain on LinkedIn, as I say, identity, businessman and fisherman.

6:29He's one of those people who's constantly sort of posting things like, you know, better never sleep or anything he ever says, almost, could be the sort of thing that The Rock would say after a workout. Not so long ago, a few weeks ago, he said he hit the headlines. He said that Britain's a real work-shy culture. It's one of the most work-shy workforces in the world. And he also said, I think the whole concept of work-life balance is invented by people who hate the work that they do. If you love what you do, you don't need work-life balance. You need work-life integration. I think there should be a basic rule because a lot of multi-multi-millionaire business people also have this view that people should work much harder.

7:08And I think this, if you earn more than 100 times your average employee's wage, they should be allowed to do 10 times less work than you. They're still doing 10 times more work for the money. There aren't enough hours in the day. And that means if you're doing 18 hours work a day, then they can do one and a half hours work a day. It's such rubbish and it's such a fundamentalist misunderstanding of how economies work that in order for there to be people like him, there don't need to be millions of people toiling away, including in Brudog, for less than the living wage, which he once committed to and then rode back for.

7:41Why should people in the gig economy doing often very mean and very difficult and, you know, jobs on very long hours, contracts, why should they love their work? This is such a load of complete bullshit. Okay, we all know this, but they need to exist in order to surface unicorns like James Watt. So now thus far, this sounds like an episode of The Rest is Money. The reason it's interesting to us is you were talking about what he describes himself as, and he describes himself as businessman, investor, television personality. Okay, that's self-described businessman, investor, television personality.

8:18Now, House of Unicorn is interesting. and we'll go on to talk about it. But anyone who knows anything about this world would have worked out that sounds a little bit like Dragon's Den. He's got a huge chip about Dragon's Den. Of course he does, and for two reasons. And this tells you everything you need to know about this guy, I think. Firstly, him and Martin Dickey, when Brewdog was quite young, tried to go on Dragon's Den, essentially as a publicity opportunity, and they were turned down. So James Watt sort of keeps that with him. You know, it seemed, come on guys, we had a pretty good business here, it was interesting.

8:52They didn't want to know because it's Beer James and it's the BBC. Listen, I don't want to be the guy to tell you that. He then, when he's made his millions, says, well, you turned me down, did you? See how you like turning me down when I say, I want to be an investor on Dragon's Den. And they turned him down again. So he's been turned down twice by Dragon's Den. Brewdog has its own television channel. If you go on the Brewdog website, it makes loads and loads of TV. So him and Martin... In this case, I will call it content. don't edify it by calling it television it makes some content him and martin dickey did a series for esquire in the u.s called the brew dog show where they just go to different cities and they brew a beer esquire cancelled the show which is weird because you'd think it must have been a huge hit because james watt is compelling anyway they decide to make this show themselves and i you do not have to do this but listen it's worth it i watched the first five minutes of the of the first one they're in Columbus Ohio him and Martin Dickey and they literally begin by saying so the network cancelled our show um what do you do in that situation to what we did started our own network so they started their own because because their show got cancelled it's literally their website and this show could not more want to be top gear if they literally were wearing Jeremy Clarkson masks it's unbelievable I'm amazed they didn't call it top beer they Him and Martin Dickey.

10:17It was right there. It was right there, guys. Yeah, well, that tells its own story. Top of the hops. Yeah. They're walking across this bridge. They've come up with three better titles. And they're going, yeah, so we're in Columbus, Ohio. We're going to make some beer. Yeah, no networks are too scared to make our show, so it's just the two of us. And he goes, wait a minute. Doesn't John Edwards live in Columbus? Ring him. Hi, is that John Edwards? Hi, John. Yeah, it's James Watt here. We're going to make some beer in Columbus. Yeah, should we do that? Oh, that's interesting. It's the Buckeye State.

10:45that's nuts is it maybe we can make a beer with some nuts okay puts down the phone Martin Dickey then takes his phone throws it into the river and he goes Martin you've thrown my phone into the river I mean oh my gosh the interesting thing of watching Top Gear and not noticing that the key to Top Gear is it's brilliantly produced yeah and every single shot is like meticulously filmed and like beautifully put together just thinking that you and your friend he can just throw your phone in the river anyway it's one of the most excruciating five minutes of television I've ever watched so please feel free and that means something by the way that counts I have watched and Eddie made an awful lot of excruciating television so listen they made the show it was cancelled they decided to make their own show that tells you all you need to know but he has further ambitions in this area oh no but it's not his only entertainment property because last week he announced that he said there was a there's a screenplay a Hollywood screenplay being developed Underdogs The Rise of Brewdog now as a cinematic project this has all the likelihood of coming to screen as I remember something.

11:46Do you remember when Leicester won the title and everyone's like, Hollywood is making a movie about Jamie Vardy. Is it? Is that what Hollywood's doing? Has anyone seen this? Has anyone... Have we got even a... Oh, do you know what? Perhaps they filmed it, but it's all on Rebecca Vardy's agent's phone. Down in the North Sea. Another phone that went into the water. He also gave an interview last week in which he talked about this TV show, which has been quite uncritically received as a thing that is definitely happening. And James Watt said, I've always been so disillusioned and frankly fed up with the tired format of reality TV business shows relying on worn out tropes and stale stereotypes of entrepreneurs for comedy value.

12:21Well past their sell-by date. He says that he doesn't like that sort of television. He doesn't like the way that it's played for... Apprentice and Dragonsten are played for entertainment. Your mate just threw your phone into the river. Yeah. He said that the cost is at times they make the entrepreneur, the founder, seem a bit deluded and a bit crazy. Whereas I think it's these founders we need to be championing. They're creating jobs. That's what the viewers are saying as well. Please show more respect to the founders. Please show more respect to the founders. We don't want an entertaining show.

12:54Here's a business he doesn't understand, even though his entire identity, apart from fishermen, is businessman. You don't understand the entertainment business. Sorry, I'm going to break it to you. Anyway, he wants to do this show, and he says he's doing this show called House of Unicorns. Now, I've looked into this a little bit more. It is as yet not with a UK broadcaster or streaming platform, Richard. And he says contestants are going to fight for two million pounds. He's going to give one million. And then the viewers will give the other million by investing in small increments. Where do I sign up?

13:26Well, you laugh, but actually our producer Neil is one of the original, I believe, Equity for Punks investors in BrewDog. Really? They did that at the start. And then when private equity came in and sort of bought out the whole company, all these people, ordinary people who had got involved in Equity for Punks were a bit like, all right, that leaves a little bit of a bad taste. Yeah. Equity for Punks became equity from two guys who went to Eton. Whisper TV are going to make this. I know Whisper. Well, they're going to do various things. I think they've got a Wheel of Fortune with Graham Norton.

13:55So, you know, it could happen. They do lots of sports as well. Yeah, they do lots of sports. They're a proper company. What he's got is he's got a promotional thing at the moment. So it's interesting how people say, you know, I've got a TV show, but it's like you haven't actually got, it's not got green, it's not even got commissioned by anybody yet. Yes, I was going to say, if you are Whisper TV or any TV company, you've got 30 shows that you're punting out there at any given time, of which two will get made. So, you know, obviously, if James Watt comes and says, we'll make this, you think, yeah, I'm sure we can put together a sizzle reel.

14:25So it's not, Whisperer, not a commissioner. As I say, you have to be quite bad, though, not if you're going to give away£2 million for people to say, yeah, you know what, still, you're right, we won't make this. So he has got a lot of promotional photos. Now, I have seen him in a shacket on a unicorn in a number of places. So I had a look and I thought, oh, there he is on Westminster Bridge. Is this AI? No. Here he is on the Millennium Bridge. Okay. And then suddenly I found another picture of him on a Scottish road. And I thought, I'm sorry, if you hire a unicorn for a day, sorry, hiring a unicorn for a day, an agency that hires unicorns?

14:58Yeah. Is that something? Yeah, of course. Hold on a minute. Yes. I will invest. If you hire a unicorn for a day, you can go to a couple of London bridges, foul a few South Bank pavements, but you cannot get all the way up to Scotland. So I thought, hang on, where's this other picture of him in the unicorn come from? Now, I have discovered that he, and then there's one of him outside a brewery. It's not an actual unicorn. It's a white horse with a thing stapled to it. It's not stapled, I don't want to say that. Sorry. It's not been stapled. Of all the legal issues that we've had. I tell you what, this unicorn, he's done more photos almost than James Watt.

15:33I had a look, there's a YouTube trailer. And I think, hang on a second, this YouTube trailer is uploaded in March 2023. And aboard the unicorn once more is James Watt saying, this is my$5 million search for the next billion dollar company. This thing has like 11 likes and two comments. It's really hard to do. Well done to finding that. So people obviously did apply to this thing, but he did it all like off air. and it hasn't, it's obviously made absolutely no impact on what I'm afraid we're obliged to call the discourse. It's made no impact on it at all. And so he's trying to do the same thing again.

16:10But I guess that was an American thing because he's talking about darling things. That was called The Next Unicorn. Okay. So he's now onto House of Unicorn. But The Next Unicorn is a better title. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, you're already giving him consultancy work for free here. I think that's how he likes his consultancy work. And we should say that he's also engaged to Georgia Toffolo from Made in Chelsea. Yeah, I mean, she's, as a sort of source of charm, she's rather passed me by, because I didn't watch that I'm a Celebrity series. She won I'm a Celeb, yeah. Well, she must have been quite charming if she'd won that.

16:39Yeah, she was very likable in that. They're a celebrity couple now. They're celebrity business people. Mogul is the permanent identity, so they're constantly, like, working really hard and, you know, doing their businesses, which seems to just involve, like, making lots and lots of social media posts. Yeah. The question I suppose we're asking is, can he force himself, can the star force himself to be born? Can he become a sort of national cultural figure? He's certainly, from what I can see, quite a significant hate figure. I mean, I know people don't like it when we use purely sort of technical arcane showbiz terms on this podcast always.

17:13But he does come across as a complete prick to me. I have to say, I'm sorry I had to deploy one. I wonder if he can turn around his terrible public image. Well, certainly he's got the money too. And in a world where social media channels are increasingly important and you can self-fund content, it's a way of becoming a star. He certainly has some sort of PR working for him, as you're saying. so he can get a lot of... Listen, we're talking about him but I think we understand the people who listen to this understand the context in which we're talking about him and it's almost like a young foal has been born and we're all wondering if it's going to ever win the Grand National and we should all watch together.

17:54I think he's very much going to become a feature of this podcast, James Watt, as we watch his attempts to become famous. But the fascinating thing, yeah, that idea when you say I've got this TV show is being made, you haven't and it isn't. I bet you ITV have turned it down I need to check on that I mean if he's funding this 2 million then you know anyone's going to take a meeting Last year he was funding 5 million and no one wanted to have it so 5 million dollars I mean you know he does say actually it's no longer just about innovation technology or even scale it's about fame it's about building a brand that captivates the hearts and minds of an audience and there is something about that in our age and you see it in someone like Trump you see it in all sorts of people if people are talking in any way about you you can monetize that you can monetize it and yes and it's all it's also genuinely just a fascinating example of when someone has made an awful lot of money they want to become famous there's a real nexus between very very rich people and very very famous people who sort of because they they both have something that the other wants and james what's got all the money he could ever need but what he wants is to be recognized and loved and appreciated and you can tell from the thing i was watching he wants people to find him funny and and virtually the whole history of the western world in the 21st century is a series of people who are not very funny who are desperately trying to find a way to be funny and they all they want just some of these people if people are just laughed at some of their jokes like years and years ago but have you seen the elon musk video of him and his friends just discussing like you know his saturday night live appearance it's like oh man but you know it's worked for him he's someone who's done quite well isn't he Richard he's done alright he can make a house of unicorns probably with a real unicorn I think James Watt would be better off spending the million on an unbelievably hot publicist who can actually explain to him quite how they're going to have to take apart and rebuild him as a public figure that would be a better use probably of the million for someone who clearly so clearly wants to become famous well I think the viewers that are expected to provide the other million in little itty bits.

20:05As I understand it, as I say, it doesn't exist as a television programme, contrary to stories you have read, and it hasn't yet to be commissioned. But it may well be, who knows? Well, the Brewdog TV show, which should have been called Top Beer, is generally him and his friend have paid an awful lot of money to make their own television programme. And so, you know, maybe at some point he'll just go, I'll just pay for the whole thing myself. And James, if you pay for the whole thing yourself, ITV will stick that on at 11 at night. They'd be very, very happy to. He's clearly good at getting publicity.

20:34He's clearly good at branding. Whatever else he might be in the world, he's good at those things. I'm dying for it. One of the columns I used to write, we used to unveil our spring collection of characters, of people who are just going to be featured in the column. I would like to say that as part of the first Restless Entertainment spring collection, the first line we've unveiled for your delight and delectation is James Watts. James Watts. We'll be keeping up with him. Shall we go to a break and hope beyond hope there are no adverts for BrewDog? Certainly won't be after this one.

21:05welcome back everybody so from the birth of a new star to the ongoing battle between two stars blake lively and justin baldone we've talked about it before but um there are attention law enforcement you took an oath to protect and serve to keep your family your neighborhood safe But in too many cities, dangerous illegals walk free as police are forced to stand down. Join ICE and help us catch the worst of the worst. Drug traffickers, gang members, predators. Join the mission to protect America with bonuses up to$50 ,000 and generous benefits. Apply now. Join.ice.gov and fulfill your mission. New developments.

21:49There are. By way of a recap, Justin Baldoni was the director and male lead in It Ends With Us, the adaptation of the Colleen Hoover book, which did very, very well last summer. And Blake Lively was the female lead. But in December, Blake Lively, I wouldn't say she launched a lawsuit. It was more of a legal filing. She submitted it to the California Civil Rights Department. So this can proceed a lawsuit, but it doesn't have to, in which she said that Justin Baldoni had sort of harassed her and made her life impossible on the set of It Ends With Us. At the same time, a New York Times, very well sourced, New York Times story clearly sourced by her, dropped called We Can Bury Anyone and essentially concerned the smear campaign run allegedly by publicists for Justin Baldoni against Blake Lively.

22:40and there was a big backlash against Blake Lively during the promotional tour for It Ends With Us which is a movie about domestic abuse and there was all sorts of what appeared to be organic kind of backlash from bubbling up from the bottom of the internet but according to the New York Times story was far more coordinated from the top as a thing to sort of get back at her clearly the film had been they'd managed to finish it and complete it because they probably both thought it would be a hit but it was a very difficult working environment So that's where we were. Where are we now? Well, she then did escalate it to a proper lawsuit, by the way, and was Justin Baldoni the weekend that story came out in The New York Times.

23:21Blake Lively and her biggest star husband, Ryan Reynolds, are clients of WME, one of the very, very big agencies in Hollywood. And Justin Baldoni was also a client and WME dropped him that weekend. he then is left in a position where he arguably has nothing to lose he is suing the new york times for journalistic malpractice for 250 million dollars which good luck with that that's not going to work i'll sue them for 250 million dollars because they always leave the word lolly out of the new york times spelling bee come on guys come on he's also launched a countersuit against blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds specifically for$400 million and saying that they've conspired to ruin his reputation and clearly his reputation has taken a massive hit.

24:08His lawyer is a guy called Brian Freedom who, even amongst a town full of monstrous entertainment lawyers, is one of the last great monsters. Brian Freedom? Friedman. Oh, Freedom would be a better name. Yeah, it would be. Journalistic malpractice, would that be a specific thing? Well, where do you start? But journalism malpractice is a yes. I think his argument is that they spoke only to certain people, that the nature of one of the reporters who reported on it, Megan Toohey, is one of the people who did the Weinstein story. And so there's a whole sort of sense that any story written by her is freighted with kind of baggage of me too.

24:47It's very difficult to prove libel and defamation anyway in US law, completely different in the UK where it's very easy. I think he's going to really struggle with that But he's essentially saying that Blake Lively is in cahoots with a journalist and a client journalist has written something to order Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds are already trying to get a gagging order against Brian Friedman because as you know people can say anything they like on the airwaves they don't have the same rules as we do but they will be obliged to turn over all their private messages all their emails related to ditto all of WME's correspondence I mean that's just never good it is never good when that happens and so it's not so I suppose the question is at the moment the first question is what more have we learnt since we last covered it we already know that there was a sort of complete breakdown of a professional relationship on this film you know Justin Baldoni says that the premiere he was basically put down in a basement with some little chairs sort of plastic chairs with his family and she was up having the big party okay as we said at the start bye bye Justin because they're so much more powerful.

25:56Ryan Reynolds particularly is a big, big deal and you'd think he would win out. But as always with these things which involve disclosure of private correspondence, it can get very messy. I believe it's got bigger than Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds wanted. Yeah, for sure. Because I think it's significant where they put the original legal filing in. It can precede a lawsuit. I thought that was a sort of line in the sand to say, look what's happened to me. Another person involved in it now is the publicist Leslie Sloan who's Blake and Ryan Reynolds' publicist in a town of monstrous publicists. She's one of the great monsters.

26:31So all sorts of people are now involved. It's like Kong versus Godzilla. Yeah, it really is. There were a lot more people in this fight than there were before. It's not just Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds and their lawyers and publicists and various journalists, but there are lawyers now for the journalists. There are lawyers for the publicists who are talking on the record. It's like Royal Rumble. Publicists for the reporters. Taylor Swift supposedly pressured Justin Baldoni to include Blake Lively's scene rewrites. Blake Lively said, Taylor Swift is my dragon. Her scene rewrites?

27:04Scene rewrites. Oh, scene rewrites. Yeah, so she rewrote scenes and then said to Justin Baldoni, these must be included, or rather Taylor Swift said it on her behalf, supposedly. We basically have a sort of Category 5 entertainment shitstorm. Wow, has James Watt said anything? He hasn't yet, but if there's any way he can shack it, elbow his way in here, then he will do yeah I can tell you I assure you I can tell you one thing there won't be a trial I mean this is America we're never going to get to a trial yeah if Prince Harry's not going to trial oh no I mean this is not Beldoni and Lively are not but one interesting thing is there's a footage of a scene which she said oh he tried to kiss me this wasn't in the script and he said she was totally going along with it and was enjoying it and it's really weird so they've and she said well no one was recording anything so you wouldn't know but his side have leaked the scene and it's become such, if you look on the internet where I'm afraid this case is basically being fought, it's become such a sort of Rorschach blot.

27:59People have seen what they want to see and she does seem to be laughing along. A lot of women will know that way when you kind of laugh along in an awful situation because you don't want to sort of rock the way. Someone's come out and told the holiday reporter, someone called Mia Schachter has said, well, he is trying to kiss her and they clearly haven't discussed that ahead of time and she keeps pulling away and clearly doesn't want to do that and said that if there had been an intimacy coordinator present, then they would have stopped it. And she said that this is pretty damning, both as an actor and a director.