The British Celebrity Boyfriend Crisis

0:00The Rest is Entertainment is presented by Octopus Energy. Now, show business is full of people who start out as one thing, but then take on some completely new role that completely eclipses it.

0:10Richard Osman:And before we get on to how Octopus Energy has done that, a few examples. There are people who start out, you know, bands as singers, as actors. A good example would be Victoria Beckham. She started off in a band, Richard. She was in a band called The Spice Girls. You're going to tell me next that David Beckham used to play football before he became an advertising guy. They have earned far more from their second careers, these businesses they've built up, than they ever did in their first ones. So the idea that she's a singer, that gets her through the door, gets her known, the culture knows who she is.

0:42Richard Osman:She then thinks, I'm going to see if I can do something else. And she has the audience who, if she does it well, goes along with her. But do you know what it reminds me of a lot? Tell me. It reminds me of Octopus Energy, because Octopus Energy has also outgrown its own introduction. It's the UK's largest energy supplier, but is now also one of the country's biggest installers of heat pumps, solar panels and batteries. The list even reaches the driveway with a major electric car leasing business as well. Hey, Chicago, class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new fave footwear?

1:16Step into a local Crocs store and step into your new look. Try it. Style it. Make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up, it shows off. First day fits, handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest Croc store today.

1:36Richard Osman:This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace, and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message, and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook.

2:14Hello and welcome to this episode of the Rusters Entertainment, questions and answers edition. I'm Marina Hyde.

2:20Richard Osman:And I'm Richard Osman. Hello, Marina. Hello, Richard. How are you? I'm okay. Hello, listeners. How are you? Let's get straight on with the question, shall we? Just hit me with a question right now. Yeah, we're going to go straight in with BTS. Oh, my God. I've got a lot to say about this. I know what the question will be about. Let's start straight away. But I will say to people that we have Marina's update on the state of British celebrity boyfriends in the second half of this as well, which I'm very, very much looking forward to. Thank you for that. We've got a question here, which I think is perfect.

2:47Richard Osman:But we'll start with Connor Little. Can you explain why BTS are boycotting the 2027 Grammys? Is this a problem for the Grammys? Yeah, I do not blame BTS for this. Okay, we did it on the podcast. They pack off their national service, the boys, and they have an album called Ararang. But the Grammys have bought in an Asian pop category to sort of ghettoise them into, I think. We know that there are the Latin Grammys, that's something totally separate. We're talking about the kind of primo main Grammys that is the OG Grammys. and they've put a Latin category and an Asian category in. And as a result, BTS have said, we have decided not to enter the Grammys this year.

3:27I hope the music can be heard and loved for what it is rather than being divided by region or language. Now, the Grammys say they did it because, this is their quote, our music community sharing with us that they felt they needed to have more opportunities to celebrate different and new genres of music. They've also done Best Latin Song. Can I just say, how are Asian and Latin countries new? This is all a bit like Discovered by Christopher Columbus, isn't it? It's like, you know, they were there beforehand.

3:54Richard Osman:But the Grammys have had that for years. I mean, they have so many categories. They go, like, crazily deep. I really don't think you can do this in this day and age. Because they would have been eligible. BTS, that album was so massive. And you're in the general category. Your question is, is it a problem for the Grammys? Well, I think it is. First of all, just the idea that any of these things play into the idea of America as this kind of cultural country or this kind of, it's not helpful. Second of all, all of these kind of legacy award shows have a big problem in general anyway. You know, the Oscars, they used to tell you when you were going out, they used to be a screen at the back saying a billion people are watching.

4:30Okay, well, last year, 17.9 million American people were watching and not that many people are watching around the world. The Grammys is the same. I think they have about 14, 15 million viewers. But they will have lots of viewers around the world. BTS would have performed for sure because you want those people, you want those big Asian markets to be watching as well.

4:49Richard Osman:And they played the World Cup final for a reason. Yeah, yeah, exactly. They did the half-time show. They weren't actually nominated. They took a long time to nominate BTS. They weren't nominated until 2021. They're very US-skewed, these awards. They've had a bit, over the last year, they got K-pop Demon Hunters Golden, Rosé for The Hub drew out with Bruno Mars. But for me, yes, it is very, very, what we're seeing a lot and actually this slightly feeds into what's happening in film festivals we talked about oh my goodness lots of people just don't go to Cannes now because do you want your film to sort of fall off the screen and then you spend all this money the same thing is happening at the Venice Film Festival which is happening in September already you can see lots of the Hollywood studios have just pulled back from that and just not putting their stuff out there used to be the start of an awards run if you didn't start it at Cannes and now people just think am I going to really risk it and the moment people just start opting out of these big kind of cultural juggernauts, then the cultural juggernaut is in trouble.

5:46And I would say that even for the Grammys, for anything like that, this was a really stupid thing to do. I don't blame them for boycotting at all, for being ghettoised in that category, not at all. And I do think it's a problem. Yeah.

5:57Richard Osman:Well, it's when an institution tries to promote itself as a worldwide institution. As you say, the Grammys, they're sort of American, and they've always been American. And that's okay, if that's what they want. I mean, we've got the Brits, but we don't pretend this is suddenly a worldwide thing. but it's the same as you know the Oscars the Oscars has best film in a foreign language we would not put BTS in a best we would not have a best Asian song category no we would have best international yeah which is you can't you can't see these new countries Asia and the Latin countries oh wow you know they're doing music now they've just discovered them yeah let's shine a light on that but it's like the Oscars having the best film in a foreign language you're like well sorry foreign to who because you give away you know where you're from I mean, you can't really do that in a connected world.

6:42Richard Osman:The Oscars, I think, get away with it far more. But yeah, I think it shows something up, which is only going to get a bigger and bigger deal. But, you know, really the whole thing in awards things is they do want to expand out and they do want to have more categories and they want to have more people who are eligible and they want to have more celebrities come into their thing and they want to have more viral content. So they have to try and keep thinking of new categories. It's just I think they might have to be a bit more careful. This was a huge mess. About which categories they choose. Yes.

7:09well i have a question for you oh yeah and it's from matthew this is relevant to your interests it's from matthew lemaster who says count binface has released his manifesto for the clackton by-election two pledges stood out to me number 11 a windfall tax on cozy crime novels written or written by celebrities and number 18 wayne rooney to be the new expert summarizer for the BBC at Eurovision. Are you worried?

7:37Richard Osman:Yeah, I read, well, I read, there's about a million people sent it to me. And it's, listen, we all wish him well in his upcoming battle. And we can have a little talk about that. It's funny, it's because this whole, listen, it's a joke, that's, and that's absolutely fine. But it's cosy crime, which I had never heard of when I was writing the book. And, and, you know, I've said a million times, I don't think I write it, but that's not, that's not up to me. But when he says written by, I didn't think anyone would start writing crime novels it's really really really difficult so it's taken me uh by surprise as much as anyone else and there's there's only one celebrity i can think of he doesn't write their books and doesn't admit that so i think you know of all the people you know stephanie you've told me who that is yeah but stephanie govan writes books she's a great you know she's always been around crime fiction you know ollie smith he's just done one he's always been a writer ollie so you know people are allowed to write books but yes when i read that and i thought written by you do you think oh I just it's yeah it's only in the same way that you know Marion Keys used to get so annoyed when they used to call it a chick lit because it's very reductive yeah a bit of you just think oh come on I just it's not this is not what I do but it's been a nice reminder that the Clacton by-election is happening because nothing is making me laugh more than Farah's just having to chew through that all summer because no one else has turned out it's one of the funniest things of our time it's like a secret diary is it happening I have no purchase on it whatsoever I mean like what's he doing today thinking about it he's i mean he knows he's going to win there's there's absolutely no possibility he can't win but the what a colossal waste of everybody's summer of a long hot summer and and an amazing pr one of the all-time great pr gaffes yeah one or not even a gaffe just something utterly nonsensical that costs you a lot of money and literally nobody cares about to do it yeah it's been he's paying for the cost of it yeah but it's been amazing for count Binface.

9:27Richard Osman:I mean, it's been incredible. It's huge for Binface. Binface has gone global. I mean, if we discover that Nigel Farage is actually Binface's agent, the whole thing makes sense. You're like, oh, I've absolutely got this. But I assume that's not the case. But there's loads of other people standing, that Lawrence Fox is standing, you just think, that's funnier in a way. Because we all know Nigel Farage is going to win. We all know it's a nonsense. We all know that we start again and, you know, he has to be under investigation. But, you know, Lawrence Fox trying to get publicity from it and being massively beaten by a bin is almost funny.

9:59But I'm just unaware of it even happening and I write about politics. It's like that thing people used to say, just put them in the Big Brother house but don't film them. That's what's actually happening now but in Clacton. It's like politics is happening but no one can really engage with it.

10:12Richard Osman:The people of Clacton must be thinking this is absolutely mental. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, but quite fun to have bin face going around and visiting factories and what have you. But yes, I did see this cosy crime thing. it just made me think about that whole term because it irks me a little but it's okay so hopefully Cozy Cry goes the same way as Chick Lit but listen, if I can help out with Count Binface's manifesto then I'm very, very happy to do it as for Wayne Rooney at Eurovision oh my god, yes please, all the way I mean, why not, right? why not? I mean, that would be quite something up there with Graham I think him and Colleen should both do it I'd like to see if they can work together Maybe they should enter.

10:55Richard Osman:But yeah, cozy crime is a fascinating phenomenon. As I say, I didn't invent it. It's nothing to do with me. I just write hopefully funny crime books. But in the wake of it, suddenly just this wave of books with very, very, very similar covers, which, you know, I get it. And if they were really selling, I'd get it. But then, you know, just week after week, stuff comes out. You think, oh, that didn't sell. I can see the stuff that's selling. and it's yet romantic-y and there's some brilliant literary novels at the moment that are selling loads and loads and loads. And, you know, it's a weird phenomenon.

11:28Richard Osman:But all, you know, films do it, TV does it, publishing does it. But, yeah, I hope that Cozy Crime goes the way of Chick Lit. I mean, fingers crossed that it does. But I'll just keep... As a reductive label. Yeah, I think so. You know, I hope... But, you know, people who read the books know exactly what they are. But, yeah, God, marketing loves a label, doesn't it, even when it's not working. Hannah E has a question for you. She says, I read that Jade Thurwell and Jordan Stevens are rumoured to have broken up after six years together. The main clue being that they didn't post about their sixth anniversary.

11:56Richard Osman:And Jordan wiped his TikTok clean of the videos they'd made together. Who is keeping tabs on all of this? Is it someone's job to continually check the social media of celebs and figure out who they've fallen out with or broken up with? Well, Hannah, this is a good question. The question who's following this is absolutely unbelievable amounts of ordinary people, which is really interesting. you know we talked about before about tattle life and all those kind of horrible sites but there is a whole lot of people you know i've talked about osint open source intelligence and if all these people who just followed what celebrities were doing were maybe put to work in the national interest we would solve a number of a number of sort of international mysteries intelligence perils all of this sort of thing i wonder if mi6 are keeping an eye on some of these people so some of them must be going this this guy is good we've talked about recruiting people like micro-influencers, just get these people to work for you.

12:46They've got apparently eight hours a day to check who's following who. But funnily enough, I was trying to remember back when I was thinking about this question, I remember speaking to a journalist back in the day, honestly, about 13 years ago, maybe. Yeah. And he had commissioned a piece of software, which showed him who was not following who anymore on Twitter or who was doing certain things. So So AI can do some of this, but it actually can't do as much as you think. There are third-party apps which track this stuff, but it tends to be only your own account. But I will say that for an unbelievable amount of people, I mean, I often say to people, you know, reality TV is like sport for women.

13:25And I'm not saying it because I like both.

13:29Richard Osman:As do I, by the way. But there are a lot of people tracking the equivalent of transfer of fur rumours all the time. and they are watching influencers. If you look at now something like Mail Online, it's got masses of correspondents who just cover influencers and influencer beef because there's plenty of it. They interact a lot more. Real celebrities are kind of like becoming more boring. I would say real celebrities, you know what I mean? Legacy idea of celebrities. And there's lots and lots of that. And the answer is so many people are watching this stuff all the time and they're just constantly flicking and seeing who's...

14:05AI can't do it for you. So it really is just ordinary people. They are that interested. And as I say, we have an army. In the same way that Ukraine have co-opted all those PlayStation players to run their drone army, these people, God forbid we find ourselves in a third world war, but these people 100 % should all work at Bletchley Park.

14:25Richard Osman:Why not? Yeah, absolutely. It's the equivalent of people just looking out from behind the net curtains, isn't it? What's going on in the street? Yeah. It's that. It's that instinct. But they're devoting so many hours of the day to it. I mean, God bless them. I didn't know that Jordan Stephens and Jethel were together. I'm so sorry you had to find out that. I know. Yeah, spoiler alert. Come on, guys. Right, should we go to some adverts so you can digest that? I would love that.

14:51This episode is brought to you by Lloyd's Rewards. Now, a big mistake that people make is leaving the cinema as soon as the credits roll because there might be a bonus scene right at the end.

15:01Richard Osman:Yeah, absolutely. One of my favourite things in the middle. Yeah, you never know. In Marvel's ones, there used to be a mid-credits scene and then there'd be an end-credits scene. I remember the first one I really remember, well, too, I remember Ferris Bueller's Day Off where he tells you to go home at the end, but also Smokey and the Bandit with Burt Reynolds where they would do bloopers. It just feels like a secret little glimpse into a different world. Yeah, and it doesn't quite have to be over. Yeah, exactly, and it's just a lovely little added bonus. You've done everything, you've made your show, you've given everyone everything, it's just a lovely little extra.

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15:42Richard Osman:It's rewards like this that make 14 million people bank on Lloyds. Search Lloyds Rewards in your app. Eligibility criteria, terms and conditions apply, retailer offers and cashback amounts may vary. UK residents 18 plus. Hey Chicago, class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast. So why wait to find your new fave footwear? Step into a local croc store and step into your new look. Try it. Style it. Make it yours. Because the right pair doesn't just show up. It shows off. First day fits, handled. Walk out ready for whatever's next. Visit your nearest croc store today. This episode is brought to you by Facebook.

16:29Richard Osman:So you were scrolling on Marketplace, and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message, and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook.

17:02Welcome back, everybody. Now, please, can I ask you this question from Elaine Campbell, Richard? Yes. He says, I am reading A River Red With Blood by one of my favourite authors, John Connolly. In the book, a character won't go to a Starbucks as he will not drink their coffee. Is it okay for fictional characters to give bad reviews, or can an author ever be held accountable or threatened with a libel lawsuit?

17:23Richard Osman:Thanks, Elaine. Well, firstly, John Connolly, he's such a brilliant author. So I recommend any of his stuff. And because, so, you know, when I write an awful lot of real things, I try and put real things in as much as possible. And, you know, John Connelly is the same. And, you know, you don't want someone refusing to go into a, like an unnamed coffee shop or a coffee shop that you've made because it doesn't mean anything. Whereas knowing that somebody finds Starbucks coffee undrinkable tells you something about their character. So it's a character note. No, he cannot be sued for that. If he was writing something about going in and putting poison in Starbucks coffee cups, yes, he could be sued for that, for sure.

18:03Richard Osman:The simplest way of working out the difference. In the first We Solved Murders book, I needed a hotel in the heart of the New Forest because a character had to be put up in a hotel. And I had been to a hotel, and it's called The Pig, and it's in the New Forest. And I really liked it. I thought, well, great, I'll just do that. So it's not an ad or anything like that, but it's a real place. So I knew what it looked like. I knew where the restaurant was. I knew where the stairs would be, all that stuff. So I was able to... We know your Instagram offers exciting clues as to your future books. Yeah, exactly.

18:37Richard Osman:So, you know, I could choreograph it very easily. So it was much easier for me to write this thing. I thought, you know, I'll just write about this place because I liked it and I know it. So I wrote that, put it in the book, and, you know, there it is. And again, in books, I like it in books where there's places you can actually go. You know, you can go, oh, my God, that's the thing for the book. In the new book, again, I needed it. They come back to the new forest again. We Chase Shadows. We Chase Shadows, yeah. Sorry, just professionalise that, please. Thank you, sorry. Out in September. And again, I needed to be in a hotel.

19:13Richard Osman:Somebody has to be placed in a hotel. So I'm writing. I thought, oh, great, I'll just use the pig. because, again, the universe becomes simpler. And then later on, there was a scene in that hotel where the manager does something illegal for a bribe, essentially for our investigators. Now, that I am not allowed to write. I am not allowed to write. They're at this hotel called The Pig, and the manager takes a bribe and gives them some information because that would be libelous. That's suggesting... You're impugning their staff. Because it's a real place. Yeah, exactly. And I'm sort of saying that somebody there would do this thing.

19:53Richard Osman:And so I had to, then I thought, okay, I will put them in a completely different hotel. Because I would have to change that. Because that would be something that they would have recourse. Funnily enough, I changed it straight away. I changed it to, originally I changed it to The Huntsman. I thought, okay, The Huntsman, that's a nice name for kind of a forest hotel. And weirdly, I was down in New Forest just looking at bits and bobs. and in the same village as the pig, I drove past a hotel called The Huntsman. I must have seen it. Yes. I simply must have done it. Because the name came to me, I just wrote it down.

20:23Richard Osman:So I had to change it again. I think it's now called The Hunter's Rest. And there are places called The Hunter's Rest in various places, but not in this space. But yeah, so I can absolutely write about something real. I could, you know, go down and complain about something. I can't then say, oh, a member of staff did X, Y, or Z, because there are real members of staff at this place. and that would be actionable. You don't want to get caught up in one of your plots. Exactly that. But yeah, you can, God, you can slag off things. You can't, you know, you can't libel them. You can't say that the coffee company were union busting or they, you know, exploited labor.