The Hardest Job In TV

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1:32Hello and welcome to another edition of the Rest is Entertainment questions show. Questions and answers show. And remind me who you are. I'm sorry, I genuinely didn't mean to do that. And I also nearly said the rest is politics. I'm Marina Hyde. I told you Xander once said, hello, my name is Alexander Armstrong. Welcome to Countdown. He's done that so many times. Right. Okay, thank you. I feel I'm in rather more professional company. What was Zander? Yeah. No, he's very professional. Sorry, who are you again? Richard Osman. Hello. Welcome to the questions and answers edition of The Rest is Entertainment.

2:10We left everyone on the world's worst cliffhanger after Tuesday's show. Luckily, Google was shut down between now and Tuesday, so no one was able to work out how tall The Rock actually is. And also, by the way, if you did Google it, there's not an immediate answer. Like to most people, they'd be like, how tall are you? Five, six. How tall are you? Six, seven. Well, that tells its own story. With The Rock, you have to go to a number of different sources, correct? Yeah, many of them are unreliable. Most notably, The Rock himself, who bills himself as, I believe, what is it, six foot four? Six five.

2:40Six five, I'm so sorry. Six five, The Rock says he is, which a lot of people will be told to me is... His wrestling height was supposedly six two. Again, challenge. From pictures of who he's been pictured next to, Obama, people like that, people who actually doesn't need to lie about his height, people are placing him I think around the six foot mark there's a very funny photo actually which you should look up online supposedly is still from the Fast and Furious with The Rock almost chest bumping Vin Diesel although the way they're standing is very odd and this is of course during their feud when Vin Diesel effectively called The Rock a candy ass whoa he went there yeah he went there he went there oh Vin Diesel real name Mark Sinclair yeah Mark Sinclair real name Mark Sinclair Mark Sinclair.

3:26Mark Sinclair. He knows that The Rock is sensitive about this candy ass. Yeah. Wow. And potentially his height, because I tell you what, no one's ever billed Vin Diesel at six foot five. And so they're the same height. I think part of the funny thing about this photo is just the way they're standing. If you're GCN, you're showing us this. Vin Diesel is about six foot to the left, to the right of The Rock. And The Rock is kind of looking into what appears to be some sort of patio door. I don't know what's happening in the shot. It's a huge movie. Do go and see it. Anyway, we must get on to the business of the questions and answers.

4:00Six one, we reckon. If he's six foot, he's lucky. We have to keep mentioning The Rock until he gets in touch. Did you know that the only thing that Boris Johnson corrected in the entire referendum campaign, the only untruth he corrected was the one that said he dyed his hair? Really? Yes, during it. So if anything's going to get The Rock to ring in, it will be a matter of personal vanity. Anyway, we must have a question. Yes, let's have a question. Okay, I have a question from you. Okay. This is from Lee Madrick. I don't know if that's the artist, the wonderful artist, Lee Madrick, but maybe it is.

4:29Have a look at his pictures, if it is, by the way, because he paints these really eerie pictures of kind of fantasy abandoned buildings, among other things. Yeah, they're really, it's such a mood. Have a look. And by the way, if it isn't that Lee Madrick, then Lee Madrick, the painter's just got some amazing publicity from someone having the same name as him. But maybe it is. Lee asks, would you like to buy one of my paintings? No, sorry, it is not him. Lee asks, I'm curious to know when and which shows real-life newsreaders were first used in dramas, the bits of a thriller where suddenly Clive Myrie would pop up on the TV in a show talking about events that connect with the story.

5:01How do they go about this? OK, I think the first instance of this famously is in the US, but it's not in the way that you're talking about. Walter Cronkite went on the Mary Tyler Moore show. Five foot eleven. Yeah. We can't do them all now. Walter Cronkite went on the Mary Tyler Moore show, but that was a sitcom. I've actually seen the episode, and he's meeting Mary Tyler Moore, sort of great friend who kind of completely goes to pieces because he can't believe he's reading Walter Cronkite so he's not doing that thing which I think you're talking about Lee Wynn Newsflash yeah now I've got an issue with this it's become much much more prevalent you can see why they do it because first of all it takes care of a lot of exposition the newsreader can tell you what's happening because that's their job that's literally yeah because normally with exposition you've got one of the characters have to go yes but the thing is the nuclear bunker is in Russia and don't forget Russia used to be part Ukraine was part of Russia and if it's a Guy Ritchie show it will be the woman it will be Kyle Scardellario who did that throughout every single episode of The Gentleman just actually explain your favourite show yeah my favourite show Guy Ritchie 5 '6 I've got you pushing anyway also it gives it sort of instant gravitas because oh my god Clive Murray's talking about this on the news this alien invasion must be quite important I don't like it from a journalist point of view at all but it's funny how even people who are on TV really want to be on TV so like you're on the TV every night you read the news oh I don't know it's not the same thing in Doctor Who though is it so it's really interesting that that happens but I was trying to think back absolute sort of first instance of sort of people pretending and in 1938 when Orson Welles does the War of the Worlds thing they made that seem so like a news broadcast popular folklore says that everyone lots of their minds and lots of people thought it was real which I don't think was the case but what did happen was that the press were very angry about this because they felt that kind of fake version of news and what have you.

6:54Yeah. Wow. Way back in the year 1938. And Wells had to sort of give a press conference, honestly, the next day, where he said, sorry, he did very well out of it, of course. Yeah. He started well on the way to becoming Orson Welles. But the press were really angry because they felt that it kind of, as I've said before in this podcast, that American journalism takes itself particularly seriously. And that's probably why even when Walter Cronkite goes on Mary Tyler Moore's show, people are saying, oh, I don't think this should have happened. You don't hear that so much in our country. I like that during 1938 that he'd have to go on the radio and go, listen, guys, don't panic.

7:27Nothing bad is happening. Yeah, don't worry. Don't worry, really. No invasions for the foreseeable future. We are living in peace. Again, it's not exactly Lee's question, but the 70s when Morecambe and Wise started putting all the newsreaders, started making them dance and stuff like that, and people like Angela Rippon coming on and dancing. Because newsreaders were this sort of incredible breed a very sort of distant patrician. They hand you the stone tablets and then they're on their way. Yeah, and then suddenly you go, wait a minute, they're dancing? Yeah. And that was the beginning and the end, as far as I'm concerned.

7:59That's when television lost it. I mean, by and large, if you're in the BBC newsroom and a BBC-owned drama come and talk to you, you might do it, there'll be all sorts of issues about what the programme is. But if it's a kids' TV thing and it's Clive Myrie saying someone's lost a ball, then that's absolutely fine. There'll be certain things they wouldn't do. and ITM would obviously do stuff for channels that they've got deals with as well. But yeah, every single newsreader says yes. I mean, there's no way you don't say yes to being on any show. It's like the truth. If ever Pointless is playing in the background on something, I'm like, oh my God, this is the best thing that's ever happened.

8:33But you always get asked permission. So someone will always say, oh, they want to have something in the background of this thing. Your TV show is on TV. Yeah, I know it is. It's a TV show, but you're so excited. But of course I'm excited. That's like if ever I walk past a news crew in the street or something, I'm like, oh my God, I might be on. I might be on TV. Oh my God, I have to watch the news. I actually think that you can see why often you need a newsreader because there's so many things that happen in dramas where you think, sorry, this would be on the TV. This would be on the TV news. So you have to have it.

9:01Whether or not you have to have the real people doing it is an issue that I have. But you do have to have it. The one thing I think is interesting when they do have newsreaders on, quite often they don't give the scripts to the news editors to write, which is what I would do. Yeah, always like headlines and newspaper headlines on TV. By the way, that's a whole different thing. But how are they just, like the fonts, you just think, I mean, that headline doesn't fit. Yeah, but also the headline will always be much more complicated than it needs to be. Local man drives to the, you think, okay, listen, it's just, that's not going to be what the headline is.

9:30But yeah, just get the news editors to write because also they'll do that. If they say, do you want to write this? You know, here's the script as it is. This is the exposition we need. Can you write that as if it was actually on the news? rather than Clive Myrie having to do like a really long convoluted thing that would have been subbed down by somebody. I agree. Yes, they often don't talk like actual news presenters. Oh, I've got one made for you, Richard. Rap Beef. Ben Allen says, How real is the ire between Drake and Kendrick Lamar? And how much is just for commercial purposes? So Kendrick Lamar and Drake are in the middle of an enormous rap beef where they keep releasing diss tracks against each other, like really quickly and really good tracks as well.

10:10Three in one weekend. One of them did three in a weekend. Yeah, it's pretty impressive. And by the way, some of the biggest tracks in the world, like Not Like Us, which is Kendrick's new one, is the biggest song in the world. Euphoria as well. It's all over everywhere. Do you think the managers are thinking, oh, now you can work at this pace, can you? Oh, that's good. Turns out you can write songs. Yeah, this one started, J. Cole and Drake did a song together and J. Cole essentially said that J. Cole, Drake and Kendrick Lamar were the three biggest names in rap, okay, which you think would be a nice thing by and large.

10:40But these things, you know. Underestimated the community. Yeah. And Kendrick Lamar did a song where he said, you know, it's not the three of us. It's just me. I'm the only name. And then Drake came back at him and Kendrick Lamar's come back. And the beef that the two of them are having, incredibly personal, talking about, you know, sort of love children, talking about, you know, abuse, talking about all sorts of things. I mean, really. And yes, I think it is real. I don't think they like each other. Is it commercially successful for both of them? Yes. Kendrick Lamar is very much getting the better of it Yes And Drake has many, many, many qualities But Kendrick Lamar is musically the genius really there He's on a Pulitzer Prize I know that doesn't make you a genius But you know, that's where he operates And Drake is far more commercial based So I do think it's real But there's also an element where it's sort of not real Because rap has always had this It's been such a big part of rap Forever and ever and ever It's got an element of WWE Yeah, stage fighting I agree.

11:39The famous one that, of course, elevates everything is Tupac and Biggie, and they both ended up getting killed, and that was beef. And so that sort of elevates every single rap battle, because every time you sort of think there are very, very, very high stakes here. But the first massive rap beef was the Roxanne Wars, which was sort of 84, 85 in New York. And that started very slowly. There's a band called UTOF who had a song called Roxanne, Roxanne, which is quite a big hit. and they were supposed to turn up on Marley Marle, another of the hip-hop greats. They were supposed to turn up on his radio show and didn't go.

12:13Then Marley Marle released a song with Roxanne Chante, which was essentially slagging off UTOF. UTOF then came back and employed someone who they called the Real Roxanne. By the way, neither of these people called Roxanne. So neither of the Roxannes are called Roxanne. Roxanne Chante and the Real Roxanne. The Real Roxanne was then replaced by somebody else. So the Real Roxanne became a slightly different Roxanne. but across the year in New York there was like a hundred tracks going back and forth between different people weighing into the the Roxanne rap beef no injuries uh but so it's you know that thing of of reply tracks and diss tracks and stuff like that is incredibly huge Jay-Z and Naz had a huge rap beef which ended because uh Jay-Z released a reply to a reply track from Naz called super ugly and Jay-Z's mum said no you have gone too far and so Jay-Z apologised to his mum and apologised to Nas they later reunited.

13:07That's special. 50 Cent and Ja Rule are still at it with each other. Cardi B and Nicki Minaj that's a big one and that sort of show how times change that really came to head in New York Fashion Week the two of them had a confrontation and you think that's different to to 84 when it was in the projects of the Bronx. Stormzy and Wiley in the UK as well. So it's a big deal. It's good for business, is the truth. And it's part of the business, and it's just a sort of innate part. It's part of the business. But there's truth behind it, and that's why it works. That's why it always works. But it feels more immediate now because of the internet.

13:41You're releasing a track, but it can go straight out. That's what the weirdness is. It's like there's three over a weekend. It's like a game of tennis. It's so quick. but I mean what it tells you especially Kendrick Lamar some of these tracks are unbelievable they're so good and you think well you just knock that up in a couple of days it goes to show what you can do I'm assuming he's sort of using a kit of parts from some other stuff but there's some really good stuff going on Drake one of the mornings he tweeted to the local news station saying can you not fly news helicopters over my house because I'm trying to sleep at this time in the morning which I quite like the idea of him being so big he's effectively organising a no-fly zone over his own house.

14:21He's like Russia. Yeah. So at the moment, it's enormous, sort of a lot of social media and tabloid fun. Listen, hopefully it doesn't end badly, but it's been long part of the tradition of rap and hip hop. It's a question for you, Marina, from James Gander. This is a good one because I don't know the answer to this, but I've always wanted to know because people always ask. Listening to a previous episode about the BBC and funding, I was wondering if there would likely be any scope for overseas viewers to be able to purchase a subscription to iPlay and a similar model to Netflix, etc. Do you think that would work and help fill Aunty Beeb's coffers?

14:52As a viewer from New Zealand, I know I would pay. Ah, this is a good one. I was able, fortunately, to ask an expert on this. It is my husband who works at the BBC, and he said he actually remembered once an episode of something like Dragon's Den where somebody said something like, oh, you know, why don't they just... If they wanted to plough the national grid, why don't they hook up generators to all the gyms in this country? And the guy just went, yeah, 80 % of the questions I'm asked at all is this. Why don't we do this? I won't be with you other than that the conversion equipment is quite expensive and the amount of energy that you produce is actually very little.

15:26But anyway. Yeah, but think about it. Why don't they? Yeah, but why don't they? But this is one of the biggest questions ever asked the people who work at the BBC. Like, why don't you do it? And the answer is because it works much better to sell the programmes individually overseas. We've talked previously on the show about Doctor Who and that's now a co-production with Disney Plus so you can't do that. But there's lots and lots of BBCs shows that you can sell around the world and you make far far more money from that than you would do from just putting on the schedule that we have and hoping that some people in america want to buy it's a much better thing is to divide it into chunks and sell it around the world um which they do do but it is people are always asking this question so i think because people people in foreign countries who watch the bbc um they're sort of in a minority is the truth so people Well, absolutely love it.

16:14But there's not enough of them that, you know, them paying kind of$9.99 a month would make a significant. Yeah, and they may not be in a minority. The shows, once they're sold to their local networks, their local broadcasters or whatever it is, or onto streamers, they won't be in a minority and lots of people might watch them. But it's much better to sell things individually than just to put the whole of iPlayer on a thing. And then you can't sell any of it. But they have done lots of studies into this at the BBC and concluded always that this would be a not a good commercial decision. That's good to get a definitive answer to that because I've always wondered, it makes complete sense because the same with independent production companies, you're not going to take your entire basket of programmes and sell them as one thing to an entity.

16:53You know, what you do is you maximise it by selling a couple of things to Territory X, a couple of things to Territory Y. And we should say that because of what you've, also because of what you've just said, the production companies, the BBC doesn't own the rights, exclusive rights to a surprising amount of its own content. and it might be, it owns the rights to put it on iPlayer for whatever, but the surprising amount of it is not actually wholly owned by them and able to be sort of parceled off and sold to completely other characters. Do you know what, the answer to that is so obvious, I should have known.

17:21It's a funny one, yeah. Apparently the Jim's one is quite obvious too, but also it does sound good when you first hear it. Yeah. I love this one, Hard Workers, Damien Boyd. You often hear the phrase, he, she is the hardest working person in television or similar from various entertainment people during conversations or interviews. Who, in your opinion, is the hardest working person in television, Richard? That's such a euphemism though, isn't it? Yeah. Someone who's on TV too much. Well, I mean, yeah, normally they're sort of talking about, you know, screen presence. And so you would have to say over the last 12 months, it's got to be maybe Ramesh Ranganathan is the top of the pile.

18:00Does so much so brilliantly. I love Ramesh. And I've never seen him do a show badly. So many writers I've spoken to are like, oh, he's a really, really nice guy. I think that what you have there is a sort of interface between somebody who everybody wants to work with, which is Romesh, and somebody whose work ethic is so huge that they are happy to keep working. I could live without working, right? I like staying at home is what I like to do. So I do shows that I love doing. My shows are because, you know, you do four or five a day and they're on every day. It sort of feels like you're working more than you are.

18:33But someone like Romesh is really doing lots of stuff abroad. And then he's doing Weakest Link. Then he's doing the radio show now. He does all this Sky stuff. Then you see him pop up and be master of ceremonies at corporates as well. So he's working his socks off. Romesh also came to fame a little bit later. He was a teacher for many years. So I think he's got that mindset, quite rightly, of I feel incredibly lucky to be doing what I'm doing. I feel incredibly lucky that I'm needed and wanted because I went through many years where I wasn't. And so I'm going to do it. But I think he loves to work, Romesh.

19:02But the real answer to the question, the hardest working person in television is always someone who's behind the scenes. It's not the talent. I mean, it's really, really not. I mean, on recording days, sometimes it is. Sometimes if you're, you know, having done most jobs in TV, if I'm doing a day on House of Games, maybe I'm working the hardest of anyone in a sort of way because I'm constantly talking, constantly thinking, constantly, you know, keeping the show on the road with an amazing team around me. but for the four months before that day and for the four months afterwards when the show has been prepped and the show has been edited everyone else is working incredibly long hours to make me and make the show look good the people who work the hardest it's tricky as you as you go up the ranks so runners work incredibly hard and then you get you know you become a researcher where sort of all the kind of hard jobs come to you then you become an ap which might be the hardest job of all, which is between researcher and producer.

20:00So essentially everything the researchers can't do, they ask you. And everything the producer doesn't have time to do, he asks you as well. So an AP is working incredibly. For the benefit of people who don't know what an AP is? Associate producer or assistant producer, depending on the industry you're in. And then you get up to executive producer, and that's where it's easy again, where your job only becomes difficult when something goes wrong. And when something goes wrong, you're really, really called into action. But other than that, you just have to make sure the channel are happy. you make sure the talent are happy it's a relationship job stuff goes wrong it's really really hard but from the producer to the ap it's hard but i would say maybe like a production manager or production secretary would be the hardest working people in tv and they're the people who have got the budget in front of them who are allocating that budget who are making sure that the studios are booked and all those contracts assigned and making sure that you know every single camera operator has a contract every single makeup artist has the dates of the next show that every single bit of money has been allocated, the delivery to the BBC has been done on time, and all the forms have been filled in.

21:01So they're literally every single thing you could think of in that show, every single person involved in that show, they go through the production manager and production secretary's desk. And so I would say they're the hardest working people in show business. So either production managers or Romesh is my answer to that question. It wouldn't surprise me if Romesh did his own production management. Shall we now have a break, Richard? Come on then. At Sierra, discover great deals on top brand workout gear. like high-quality walking shoes, which might lead to another discovery. 40 ,000 steps, baby.

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22:43Welcome back with the shock news that Alistair Campbell is 6 '4". This is a question we will both have an opinion on, Marina. Ian Scugle asks, With the recent releases of certified turkeys like Madame Web and Rebel Moon 1 and 2, it's made me wonder to what extent those involved with a big budget project can tell if it's going to bomb. Do actors realise the script they presumably read before agreeing to is actually terrible? Or does everyone finish thinking they've made something great and it is a genuine shock when nearly everyone else hates it? That's a very nicely worded question. It's really nice.

23:14but I would just quickly take care of the actors bit first I would say that the script that the actor reads when they sign on will not be the script that they shoot and that will always be the case and certainly I think Dakota Johnson who's in one of the bombs you mentioned in Madam Web was just like this became a completely different thing whether she should have had foresight in it or not I will tell you that in terms of being involved in a production and you're doing it and it is speaking of the hard work both on films and on sort of television you are so mad with tiredness you've gone on and it's not going down to mine and no one's claiming that but it's very physical for a lot of the kind of below the line crew who are lugging stuff about and working incredibly long hours going home for just a few hours sleep and then coming straight back the next morning and doing this for months on end you are not in the position to realize mostly whether or not what's unfolding is good or bad you you might be at the start and in fact you might have your best reactions at the start so if people think like your show is funny at the start or the show that they're basically filming and helping bring to life is funny, then that might be a good sign.

24:17But such bad movies have worked, by the way, some of which have even won on Best Picture crash. And you're just thinking, how on earth? So you've got that in your mind. You have to tell yourself this stuff to get you up in the morning when you've had four hours sleep and you've got to do it again all week. The second thing, that thing that we've talked about before, nobody knows anything, the William Goldman dictum about Hollywood, which applies just as well to television. If the script has gone through a million rewrites while you're in production, But then Marvel has done that and they've got away with that on loads of things.

24:45If you're not making your days, I would say that in a Hollywood movie on a TV thing. And what do you mean by not making your days? Making your days is there is a very, very tight schedule of all the shots you're supposed to get in a day. And it might seem to normal people like, so you've got to get two minutes of usable footage out of today, have you? Right, okay, wow, that really is going down in mind. But funnily enough, it is very, very busy and you've got to have so many takes and setups. and you have to move on ideally on the schedule. And if you're repeatedly getting to the end of the day, you're still going two hours over, which you have to do in our country with agreement with the crew and everyone agrees and say, yeah, we'll do two hours and you still haven't made the day and that keeps happening, then something is going wrong.

25:25Equally, a friend of mine who was working on a show with a really sort of esteemed creator and said, oh, you know, he'll, thought at the time, this is, oh, this does not feel right. Thought, oh, he's a genius. He'll get away with it, always does. But in that occasion, I don't think the person did get away with it particularly. But it does happen. But it is quite hard to tell when you're a couple of months in. I would say, yeah, it's fairly impossible. And the interesting thing with any big movie or TV show is everyone's really just looking after their little bit of it. So, you know, wardrobe's looking after wardrobe.