The Liam Neeson and Pamela Anderson Love Story

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2:07Hello and welcome to this episode of The Rest is Entertainment with me Marina Hyde. And me Richard Osmond. Hi Marina. Hello Richard, how are you? I'm all right. Welcome back to the country. I know. I'm so glad I'm in the studio with you. That makes me very happy. You have a nice tan. Thank you. I begged you not to mention it. and other than that, how's things been in my absence? Big news. Very big news. Listen, we talked on the podcast last year. I think it was over a year ago when I went through all the numbers and we worked out that in the whole of this decade, only three bands had had number one singles, because solo artists absolutely dominate the charts.

2:43And in the whole of the decade, it was only Little Mix, the Radio 1 Live Lounge, All Stars, and the Beatles were the only actual bands who have had number one singles. but we now have a fourth to join that canon, a fourth. And they are, of course, Huntrix from K-pop Demon Hunters. Very much the thing. Everybody is talking about Golden by Huntrix is now number one. Listen, I accept they're a cartoon band and I accept the Beatles are no longer going and I accept that Radio 1 Live Lounge All-Stars is not a real group as well. So it's still just Little Mix, really. But it's nice. Nice to have a band at number one.

3:14That movie has done so unbelievably well. It's like more in its sixth week than it was in week one for Netflix. but they did put it on in theatres for about 15 minutes so that Golden can be an Oscar winning song. You know if you've got kids since the start of the holidays plenty of people would have seen K-pop Demon Hunters 40 times? Yeah, some of the bazillions of views are not actually my daughter but only very few I think. What are we talking about this week other than history being made in the UK singles charts? Well in a heartwarming turn of events. We've got good news for once. Of course we're in a darkening world.

3:48The best news. I want to talk about the romance between Miss Pamela Anderson and Mr Liam Neeson. I mean, it's funny, whoever you mention it to, everyone just immediately melts. Yeah, it's heaven and we're going to talk about that. A huge show, Wednesday returns on Wednesday. It's got one of those sort of fascinating stars. We're going to talk about who is Jenna Ortega. We sometimes do these sort of bluffers guides, don't we, to the biggest new stars. And she is one of the biggest new stars in the world. So if you don't know her, you will by the end of this podcast, I promise. I'm also going to take us through the runners and riders.

4:20Every single channel is trying to create their own version of the traitors. That's what's happening in British television at the moment. I'm going to go through what each channel is doing and their chances of winning. And we're going to hang that off the back of Destination X, which is the BBC's attempt to follow up the traitors, which started this week. Without further ado, we had Liz Hurley and Billy Ray Cyrus. But the random romance generator has thrown up a quite delectable pairing in the form of the co-stars of the new Naked Gun movie, which opened this weekend and did pretty well. For a comedy, it did amazingly well.

4:53Liam Neeson and Pamela Anderson. Oh, the Tom Holland and Zendaya of our generation. I want to say Liamela. Are people saying Liamela? I haven't seen Liamela, but I think we should start saying it. I say Pamem. Pamem. We'll get into a very deep dive on this in a minute. I thought you would. The moment I heard they were a couple, firstly, I thought good for both of them. I do think I know someone who wants to do a very deep dive on that. It's like when Rory Stewart hears this Trouble in the Balkans. You know, you think, oh, here we go. It's exactly like that. Because we want to enjoy, I mean, I don't want to say we want to enjoy Trouble in the Balkans.

5:31We certainly don't. But we certainly want to enjoy our celebrity romances, don't we? We really, we want there to be a bit of fun in this crappy world. And I tell you what else we want. We want charm in public life. There is such a distinct absence of charm in public life. And truth in public life, if you like. Something that seems very real. Oh, yeah, because this is not a showmance. These two don't really know what a showmance is. They're not those sort of people. What we want with these romances is it to be so completely shocking that you're like, sorry, what? They're together. But also to be something that within about a week we can say, well, of course, it was perfect and we always knew.

6:07As soon as you see them, you think, oh, yes, of course. Oh, but of course. Well, because actually both have sort of borne these awful tragedies or traducements in their personal lives. They both have got that same sort of slightly, but particularly, sorry, because it's such a radical act, Pamela Anderson's decision not to wear makeup. Isn't it amazing how that is seen as a radical act? It's the most radical thing. It shows what's happened to our culture, that it seems shocking that someone allows herself to age in a normal fashion. Yeah, and there's like no one. And I mean, there was an interesting interview with Jamie Lee Curtis the other weekend where she was talking about, I mean, she called it a sort of genocide of women.

6:48I wouldn't necessarily use that particular term, but she, by the cosmeceutical industry. The cosmeceutical industry. Cosmeceutical industrial complex, she called it. And actually, the Hollywood Reporter, I think it's this week, have got like a cover story on all the different work, the modern work that people are having done. Can I do a super quick Jamie Lee Curtis sidebar? Because I think it would be of interest to listeners. Apparently, she's going to be Jessica Fletcher in a new run of Murder, She Wrote. I saw this. I knew someone who'd be very, very interested in that. Very interested. I mean, she's phenomenal and it's brilliant what's happened.

7:22So, yeah. So, Lea Mala, both of them had this kind of austere by choice. They've borne these things nobly and life has happened to them. and it's kind of written on their faces, which, as we've just said, women are not allowed to have anything written on their faces. But there is a real earnestness to them. And actually, that really fits the roles because the new Naked Gun is produced by Seth MacFarlane who did that sort of comedy spaghetti western with Liam Neeson. He's done very little comedy, actually. But what he always does in comedy is to play it completely straight. That's what the genius of the Zodizaka Brothers films is people playing these very silly scenes straight.

7:59Well, that's what Lizzie Nielsen did. Lizzie Wilson was a straight actor and in Airplane they cast him because he'd only ever played those roles before. And, you know, by and large, Police Squad, which started the Naked Gun franchise again, they brought him in because they knew that you don't play any of the jokes, which is what Liam Neeson does brilliantly in the new Naked Gun. You wouldn't know there was a single joke in the whole film, the way he plays it, which is perfect. And he's so good at doing. Like he did the RUC officer in Derry Girls. Yes, yeah. And he's in Exodus as well. He did an amazing turn in Exodus when he said he wanted to start doing comedy.

8:31And it is hilariously funny in his unfunniness when he talks about not wanting to do comedy. Anyway, so he's we love Liam Neeson. What we also love is that they'd sworn off romance, which is so high in my own Jane Austen novel. He said last year, only last year, he said, no, I'm past all of that. And I mean, she's had a number of husbands. And I think she made it very clear that she just was interested in doing her garden and things like that nowadays. They've both got sons of almost the same age. The sons are very devoted. And obviously Liam Neeson had this terrible tragedy where his wife, Natasha Richardson, died in a skiing accident in, I think, 2009.

9:10And we all know the tragedies of Pamela's life, which are really... There's something particular about her that is a sort of turbocharged Americana. She'd had a very difficult childhood with abuse and terrible stories of rape and all these sorts of things. but she was discovered on a jumbotron at a football game. It was a look that kind of met the male gaze fairly unflinchingly and they saw it and she was almost famous by half time. She was down there doing, Labatt's got her, the beer brand got her down and she was doing something already and then she did Playboy. Her book is brilliant by the way.

9:50Some of the anecdotes, she's very, very generous about some of the things that have happened to her but all the stuff that happens at the Playboy mansion is basically untranslatable to a modern era. And you just think... I was barely translatable then. We always sort of pretend I was a different time. But even then, that was unacceptable. She sort of has always, I don't want to say driven, but men have behaved in a particularly sort of feral and unpleasant version of themselves in her presence. It's like they found gold in the Old West. Yeah. Tim Allen, she said, on the first day of Home Improvement flashed her.

10:24He says he didn't. But she said, she just, she says it's one of many encounters where people felt they knew me well enough to make absolute fools out of themselves. She's very gracious. Scott Bio, he inspects her toes and ears at the Playboy Mansion before sort of making a move on her. But then he gets in trouble with his family because she's allowed to drive his Mercedes convertible. It's also sort of, even like Tom Ford, not really his finest hour, puts her in a corset and says, now you've got no organs. You must never leave the house again without, you know, not being in a corset. and in comes Liam on a white horse he just needs to be who she is but well it's not then along comes Liam is it because what happens she marries Tommy Lee if you want to read a book about a particular corner of the music industry read Motley Crue The Dirt oh it's amazing it's one of the greatest books of all time it's amazing and I think the New York Times review which I think may be on the cover of the old one that I have is utterly compelling and completely revolting and it's fair great holiday reading if you're looking for something to read on the beach oh my god terrific Perfect.

11:24Tommy Lee, the drummer in Motley Crue, sees Paula Anderson and she says it's as if she was in a black spotlight. And he goes over to her and licks her face. Well, you know, not much later, they're getting married on a beach and, you know, she's in a bikini. And I think he only weds in swimwear, Tommy Lee, because I seem to remember some pictures of him and Heather Locklear. And I think they married him. They married Heather Locklear as well. But then the sex tape comes, is stolen and it really was stolen. but she instantly realises that it will be a horrendous thing for her and her career and it will stop her career completely even though you know she'd done paper she'd done all these things and it will be great for him yeah which is as it as it proved it was one of those things it's a bit like monica lewinski now that is something that at the time like it was just jokes all the time about it in the same way that monica lewinski was particularly late night it was just sort of every night for months and months and and then now you just think i don't understand how they couldn't see that that was whatever and all of us were a lot you know lots of us were involved in that and just thinking it was a sort of joke you're not really fully understanding because you didn't have the yeah very few people question we don't question very much about the world around us most of the time we think we're constantly questioning but actually we're questioning the waves we're never questioning the tides and those those are the things we're born on aren't they i think i think that's a that's a very good way of putting it yeah and it became this terrible thing for her and and they they were actually thinking she was going to sue at the time but they could she said the depositions were such a nightmare of the way there's what she was forced to go through by the lawyers and she was pregnant she'd already had a miscarriage and she thought she'd have another one so she couldn't go through with it in the end it's really interesting actually that hulu series which i watched some of it had a chance to be a revisionist version of what that moment was like and basically played it as a comedy i think actually lily james wrote an apology letter which Pamela Anderson says she's never opened or didn't open I'd actually retains it to read later and they really did it so badly I think um and they just didn't know what they wanted to be with it it could have been very interesting but it wasn't and then she became quite a sort of radical and she became you know she got caught up with sort of Vivian Westwood and different forms of activism and she did lots for Peter and she actually I mean she don't she was a point where she had befriended Julian Assange do you remember in and out of the embassy Well, now he certainly made it seem as though something was happening there.

13:46That was his attempt, I think, at a showmance. Yeah, because at the time I think she was either married to or dating somebody like the centre-back for Marseille. And I remember thinking, you're lucky you're in your little Ecuadorian self-imposed hidey hole, aren't you? Because I don't think he's going to love this. I can see what you're doing and he's not going to love it, the centre-back for Marseille. But anyway. That's, by the way, a West End play in three or four years' time is Pamela Anderson visiting Julian Assange in a tiny room. the ecuadorian embassy yes yeah i mean it could be but actually the most radical thing she did was as you say was that two or three years ago she said i think she was in paris and it was she was getting ready for some party and she thought well i could actually sit in a makeup chair for the billionth time of my life for three hours or i could just go to the louvre and i think i'll do that but it's become so completely radical the fact that she doesn't wear makeup and or she wears sort of minimal makeup she said to vogue paris if we all chase youth then we're only going to be disappointed and maybe a little bit sad and it's become this is sort of extraordinary thing almost as a result of that or as part of that the sense that she was sort of shedding everything that had gone before she was offered this script for the last show girl in fact one of her sons Brandon Lee not that one insisted that she um look at it she took the role and she was nominated for a golden globe I mean it's a lovely story isn't it right yeah all that was needed to sew a button on it was love.

15:07Yeah. The love of a real man. Well, what we really, I mean, we wanted Leslie Nielsen and Priscilla Presley because, again, she was someone to whom a lot of life had happened in the original Naked Gun. But that age difference would have been too much, Leslie Nielsen and Priscilla Presley. You're right, it would have been. This is perfect. They're sort of all blurred now and I can't quite remember. You're right. A lovely age-appropriate relationship. What is she, 58 and he's 72? Something like that. Oh, is that right? I think so. Oh, okay. I thought he was younger. Oh, wow, you're not going to Gen Z police like age gap, are you?

15:36I can't stand it. I think age gaps are allowed to get older as you get older. I think whatever the algorithm is, I think a 14-year age gap when you're 72 is different to a 14-year age gap when you're 27. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think we're both on that. Well, once again, you found something on which we can entirely agree. Because otherwise, your partner would be, what, 41? But what's great about this is they're still out there on the red carpet and doing all the... Oh, my God, Naked Gun must be over the moon about it. Can you imagine? It is an amazing film, I have to say, as well. Oh, did you see it?

16:05Yeah, yeah. That's part of the good news story. It's a film. People say, oh, why are they having to remake Naked Gun? For goodness sake, I have a new idea. Well, the first Naked Gun was 38 years ago. They're allowed to do a sequel after 38 years. Well, it's a franchise. You can't get a comedy in cinemas. You just can't get one in. So you can if it's got what they would regard as established IP. When you look at the numbers, it skews incredibly old. And when I say incredibly old, it's like 33 % over 45, which doesn't sound like anything but actually for movies these days it's extraordinary because it's a young person's game movies and so this is this is appealing to an older audience and it's not bringing the kids into the uh the cinemas which i think is a shame because like i can't think of a kid who wouldn't love this film in the same way that it was for kids when it came out in the first place now it's for people who were kids who are now adults it's gen x to take gen out for kids too exactly and liam leeson and pareda anderson is is not a great romance for anyone under 25 they're literally sitting in the back of cars now what are you talking about yeah who on earth do you mean for people of our generation it's a great movie for people who've got younger kids just take them not seven year olds but it's a really really really stupid funny movie like in the like in the good old days it's made by paramount it will make money enough but it's it's hard yes it will because i think it only costs 42 million or something it's hard to get any comedy movie into.

17:32And I mean, this has happened. They were going to do this for streaming. It was going to go, I think, onto Paramount Plus, as I remember it. But obviously, once these two became attached, then you can put it in cinemas. But it's very, very hard to have a straight comedy in the film theatre, obviously. Well, the funny thing is, Happy Gilmore 2 did not go there. It didn't, but it's a great film. I won't hear. I'm not going to have another anti-Happy Gilmore 2 rant, because I think it's one of the great movies of 2025. But interestingly, even back in 1982, it was hard to get Naked Gun into the cinemas because Zucker Abrams, Zucker, who were the people behind Airplane and everything, they came up with Police Squad, which turned into Naked Gun.

18:12They came up with it as a film. They wanted it to be the follow-up to Airplane. But Michael Eisner, who we mentioned an awful lot, said, you don't really have a story here. It's just a sort of series of episodes. He said, so I'll commission it as a TV series for you. so he commissioned six episodes of police squad and again if you've got kids who have not seen police squad and have a certain sensibility and sense of humor that is a great thing to find on streaming there are only six episodes of police squad they only put out four it was like a late summer replacement they put out four episodes and they then cancelled it didn't show the last two and if you think our culture has changed you know do you know why they cancelled it they said that there's so much going on that people have to pay too much attention they said and we don't think people pay that much attention to tv tony tomopoulos who was the abc entertainment president he said that viewers have to pay close attention to the show in order to get much of the humor uh he said this is according to leslie nielsen he said the viewer had to watch it in order to appreciate it and that's why uh that's why it's cancelled tv guide magazine um called the explanation for the cancellation the most stupid reason a network ever gave for ending a series just wait yeah he oh my god you've got some fun to come so after that was cancelled they did they found like a storyline turned it into naked gun and uh and here we are many years later with liam neeson and pamela anderson in love it's a joy it's it's an unadulterated joy and it's charming what do we think about um the pressure of being in that relationship when it's like in your friendship group when a couple gets together and everyone's like oh this is great do you know what we've all been thinking for a while this would be absolutely perfect and it makes everybody you can see the happiness it gives everyone it completes the group but for those people there's an enormous amount of pressure yes this has completed me but if you're pam and liam you've got the happiness of almost every single person over the age of 50 in britain in your hands yeah it's a huge responsibility i'll tell you what if anyone can handle that level of responsibility it's those two yeah and i i wish them all the best liz and billy ray are still going strong i you know i i need my third round of romance but i by the end of the year by the end of the year is fine in the old days all we had was repert murdoch and jerry hall i'm just not sure if it fits the template we're looking for yeah sadly sundered um not for jerry of course not sadly um but uh delightfully sundered delightfully sundered for the delightful jerry but yes we'll have to wait and see how it develops but we wish them all the best it's like something out of a sort of you know comedy romance novel and I absolutely love it shall we go to a break yeah I need a breather after that and then we'll talk about how on earth one follows up the traitors and what could possibly go wrong

20:56hey everyone this episode is brought to you by Sky which means it's time to talk about Mr Big Stuff the Sky original comedy which earned Danny Dyer a BAFTA for season one. His first BAFTA. He returns as Lee, a man reacting to major life developments with self-pity, avoidance and long afternoons in a garden chair. His brother Glenn, played by Ryan Sampson, the show's creator and a fan favourite from Brassic and Plebs, takes a different approach, launching an investigation despite having no qualifications beyond stress, impulse and alarming levels of determination. One of those shows that is not exactly what you expect but also such a great reminder that the mighty Danny Dyer is such a colossus in the middle of our culture.

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23:09welcome back everybody now there are roughly a billion formats competing to be the new traitors am i right richard roughly uh yes everyone thought that formats were dead and then traitors came along and proved that they weren't and as always after such a thing there is a gold rush to find an exact copy of that or as close as one can possibly get and i'm going to talk us through a few of the runners and riders now but starting with Destination X which started on BBC One this week and is definitively straight out of the traps an attempt to do exactly what the traitors did not in terms of the format it's not exactly the same but it has similarities in terms of where it comes from now Destination X if you have not seen it Rob Brydon hosts I love him I absolutely love him I felt there were moments where he was thinking how am I possibly able what's that Reagan quote?

23:58If you're explaining, you're losing. I mean, there's a lot of explaining of how the show works from him. Absolutely. Go back and watch the first episode of The Traitors. Have a look at how much explanation there is there. There's a lot. Okay, fine. I need to do that. Because... We mustn't worry. I felt I was involved in some rare gibberish at times for that. And he, by the way, does an absolutely sterling, amazing job. As he always does, he's faultless. I'm sensing I liked this show a bit more than you did, but we will get to that. I think you probably did. So Destination X, it's a group of people, 13, I think they cut it down to 10 almost immediately.

24:31They are on a blacked out coach driving through Europe and they only have one job, which is at the end of the episode, they have to work out where they are. And they have to mark with an X on the map where they are and the person who's furthest away leaves the show, right? Which is simple. It's a nice, simple hook. That is essentially, you don't know where you are, but you're given clues. You're sort of driven around, you're given clues. And with those clues, you have to work out exactly where you are and try and get as close as possible. now first two episodes went out last week next two are this week this was in the same way that the traitors had been a hit in europe with a i have to say a fairly different format to the one studio lambert bought over here and made into a hit destination x was called um bestimming x and it was in belgium there was a big kind of auction for it because it was this was like the hot new format and because traitors had been big in a european territory and had come over to the uk and America and been a big hit every single person this is what I try and get across is this is how all creative industries work every single person in every single territory and every single broadcaster is thinking what is the next version of that so they're not necessarily thinking what's the show where we can vote people off they're thinking what's the next big thing that's worked in another European territory that is sort of a reality show that has ordinary people on it instead of celebrities and renews our faith in the format and this was the next out of the box because it had already aired in Belgium and they thought it's a bit like it it had already aired in Belgium it was two hours long and the numbers sounded great the numbers when you look into it I think the Belgians did a very very good job selling this because the numbers really really really do not stack up in terms of the original version of what we were told the numbers were because they said that they had enormous amounts of viewers in Belgium yes and it's it's we're all very good at massaging figures and I think because everyone was so excited there might be this new show everyone you know suddenly there's a bidding frenzy so the bbc buy it put it out to tender to all the big british production companies i'm sure studio lambert behind the traitors i'm sure they went for it and a company called two four made it who will talk about a bit more who've done loads of great shows absolutely you know they absolutely know what they're doing so they've got this show on their hands came out this week as i say and it's interesting i rather enjoyed it but everyone wants it to be something and it sort of isn't that idea that you're driven in a blacked out coach and you have to work out where you are it's a it's kind of neat it's kind of thing oh that's quite fun and it's a guessing game and you can play along at home so you know it's not like the traitors where they tell you the traitors are this you don't you don't know where you are so you're trying to look for clues and things like that as well so it's got a bit of it you know that kind of oh you've got alliances like in the traitors and you've got this incredible scenery like race across the world so you think well that's that's what you're aware everyone is buying into that's the thing that if you're the bbc you're saying the show we would like is a show that has the kind of tension of the traitors and the beauty of race across the world and of course 2-4 when they actually have to make the thing they're like well the alliance thing doesn't really work we have to slightly make that work with formats you know in the traitors that that's it's all you've got and then this you have to force it and because you're playing along at home with this you also can't really show an awful lot of where you are so the scenery doesn't really work yeah either so the things that you know they're saying to two four this is what we really really want it's been a big hit in belgium it hadn't really uh we want the beauty of race across the world we can't really have that and we want the tension and tactics of the traitors we can't really do that either okay so that's where two four find themselves they make this show i genuinely thought was a good show we watched a second episode as well which i really enjoyed but it is not the show everyone thinks it is going to be so 2-4's job is to make a show that is good and hope that you know people start watching it but isn't people are not going to watch it because of the traitors and people are not going to watch it because of race across the world and people are not going to watch it because it was a hit in belgium you know what they do have is loads and loads of trails and they have a great host in rob and they have goodwill from the channel and all of all of those things and so if they make a good show they have a fighting chance but it is not going to get any tailwind from the traitors at all.

28:33Now, ITV and Netflix went a slightly different way. They said, no, we're literally going to do our version of The Traitors. So ITV have got The Fortune Hotel with Stephen Mangan, which is The Traitors, but in a resort. Netflix have got Million Dollar Secret with Peter Serafinovich, which is like The Traitors but for a million dollars, because there's Netflix. In a remote resort. In a remote resort. And those are both going to a second series, because actually, if you'd like The Traitors, both of those are giving you the same show. So really, I'm lots of little clever little twists and what have you, and they all look lovely and they've got great hosts.

29:06Yeah, I can't stand that over-polished type of American reality television. I really so much prefer our version of it, I have to say. I mean, I was actually having an argument with one of my children about this, but they're really incredibly gorgeous, but they're also a cop. And it's like, yeah, but at every single point, they are so aware of the camera on them as an aesthetic object that it's too polished. you don't feel that they're I don't know it's just too managed a performance just as a contestant but we're watching something entirely different because in America you look at the American Traitors which a lot of British people do not like watching I love watching it and they're sort of professional contestants they are people from other strategy shows they're people from other franchises some of whom know each other already some of whom have alliances so it's an entirely different show played by people who know what to say to camera played by people who understand the game they're playing understand which cameras on them which cameras on them understanding what viewers want and funnily enough the American Destination X is exactly the same, they've brought in kind of reality show veterans Jeffrey Dean Morgan's the host of that one right?

30:08Jeffrey Dean Morgan from The Walking Dead is the host but like with contestants yeah you've got people you know who people already know I was speaking to a number of people on that show and they said I mean the Belgian version is two hours long the NBC version is 42 minutes long and also one of the main things about the show they make it at the same time as the UK one that's part of the um the the deal with these things now to make them affordable he said we got a bus full of Americans and this show is all about do you know at least a tiny bit about European geography like do you know for example that Austria is next to Switzerland like if you see a mountain do you know you're not you're not in the Netherlands have you at least bought a map before the show starts and none of the Americans have the first clue of what any of the countries in Europe are where they might be so it's a it's a much more difficult show to make for the Americans.

30:56Oh, you're telling me. Now I want to have a look at it. Yeah, exactly. Is it out yet? Yes, they've done the whole first season. It's kind of started all right because it was sandwiched by American Idol. It didn't finish great. It's one of those ones where, yeah, they might do another series. So, which I suspect might be the same with this one as well. I think if they can get through this first series of Destination X, there's a few little tweaks they can make that people would end up being fairly in love with this show. It has a charm to it, I would say. That's Destination X. so fortune hotel and i thought it was a complete mess i mean really but anyway but people do with first so first episodes of things are so hard to make because the channel are constantly saying you have to explain things yeah always explain always explain no shortage of explanation whereas on youtube no one ever explains anything no you trust the audience the audience kind of go yeah i get it you know which means things are like like half the take half the time and yeah there's always always always there's a generation of program makers who have to fall back on over explaining and thinking, no, the audience must know.

31:54The audience is not listening. The audience is not listening to you. They are literally on their phone until you get to the good bit. I agree. They'll osmotically pick it up if they like it and the other stuff is good enough. I don't think the rules are... So long as you have rules, so long as you know what the rules are and you know that they're fair so when people really get into it, they understand what's happening. It's coherent, yeah. Stop telling people what is about to happen or what might happen or what could happen or how you could get immunity or how... You know, you don't need to do any of that at all, I would say.

32:24Now, Destination X has a sort of a cousin, which again, when the traitors got big in Europe, there was the bidding war for Destination X. There was also a bidding war for a program called The Bots, which is Norwegian, which is visually very, very arresting. It's celebrities, 10 of them, I think. I was watching the Norwegian episodes with subtitles. Listen, there's only so much I can do. and people are put inside boxes they're taken to a particular location somewhere beautiful normally the boxes then open they have no idea where they are there is a game in front of them they have no idea how to play it they don't know what the rules are to the game and essentially they play the game play the game play the game until somebody loses and then they get back in the box and they're moved to the next location so itv are doing this one so bbc have done destination x itv are doing this one it's their their direct attempt to be traitors like it actually did do quite well in Norway.

33:19The numbers there do sort of stack up. I just heard who the host is for ITV. I think it's a very, very good choice for host. I think it'll be an interesting one. It is, again... Can you not tell us? No. I can't, because they have to do launches and stuff. And they'd be like, God, can you imagine? Just me just saying it. I just think that also people just love Liam Neeson now. So I just think he's perfect. So that is a show where actually it has a lot of... It's similar to Destination X in that you're going around around europe you're going around wherever and you go to beautiful places but you can actually see those places in this instance it has lots of issues it does have lots of issues but all formats do have issues but it's celebrities it'll be saturday night they're spending a lot of money a lot of money so this is like a really really big swing destination x is bbc's big swing the box is itv's big swing and having seen the original versions of both the box has the neater format Now, Channel 4 are entering the fray.