The Return Of Phillip Schofield

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1:11Hello and welcome to this episode of The Rest is Entertainment with me Marina Hyde. And me Richard Osmond. Hello Marina. Hello, I'm sorry I'm rather croaky this week but I'm otherwise well. From hard living? Sadly not, from hard virusing. Wow. But you have been on your book tour in America. I've been in America, yeah, which is again... That's America. Not, yeah, heard of it. Going there after this podcast. You are, aren't you? Yeah. We're literally, I came in from America. You're about to go out to America. Yes. It sounds like that's how we live all the time, which we don't. We literally just want to be on our sofas watching television at home.

1:45Oh my God. No, I had the loveliest time. Lots of book events and yeah, it was very, very cool. I'm a tiny bit jet lagged. You're a tiny bit croaky, but what a packed show we have today. What a packed show we have today. And some good stuff on today's show, especially the first bit, which I'm very, very excited about because you have an advantage over me in the first bit. Have I? I don't know whether I have an advantage. I have watched some of Philip Schofield's Cast Away on Channel 5. And you are going to just keep your powder dry for a second because I want to hear all about it. But you are going to be taking us through your views on it.

2:18I will be taking you through my views on it very much so. I imagine your views are balanced. I imagine they are sort of fair. I've got a number of very, very balanced views on this show. Anyhow. We're also going to be talking about the world of immersive experiences. There was a Nightmare with a Bridgerton one, and the Taskmaster one is launching this week, so we're going to talk about immersive experiences. How to cast Strictly, how to... How to be a breakout star of Strictly. Who has been a breakout star, how and why, in the UK and in America. And I think there are two breakout stars on this year of Strictly who are going to do very, very, very well out of it.

2:56Right then. Cast Away. produced by Clive Tullow who's done millions of these things does loads of brilliant travelogues Clive, so he really really knows what he's doing as well so it's you know, Five as we know, commissioned very very well so it's got smart people around it, but it's still it has a faint whiff, doesn't it? Don your hazmat suits because we're about to go away to an island off the coast of Madagascar Channel 5 have performed can I say it's performed the dubious coup of signing Philip Schofield latterly of this morning for their format cast away which is when a celebrity has to go and live on an uninhabited island for 10 days filming themselves filming there's not even camera operators it's literally just one person by themselves now it's being stripped across Monday Tuesday and Wednesday night of this current week I have seen the first episode I had to go through a huge number of loops to do that really what sort of what sort of loops do you when programs come out they have I noticed that the rules were completely different for people who wish to write news stories about it but anyway you have something called an embargo which means you're not allowed to write about it until or talk about it and for review purposes until a certain time in this case apparently two hours after the episode has finished airing um so anyway I've signed a number of documents and it aired on Monday night, episode one.

4:20So some people would have seen last night's episode, which is the one you're going to talk about. I have not. So you've signed lots of documents. I have not. But you're allowed to talk now. I'm now allowed to talk about, in tabloid parlance, break my silence. Excellent. Marina Hyde, un-gagged. On this. Anyway, he says it took him 30 hours to get to Madagascar. I don't know which airports he passed through on the way, But had he cared to look out of the window in any of those, he might have had a realisation that what he was about to embark on was some real first world problem stuff. As we know, Philip Schofield was let go, fired, resigned from, deleted.

5:00There seemed to be a number of conflicting narratives from this morning because he had a relationship with a much, much younger member of very, very junior staff, which he consistently lied about. And the relationship with his co-host Holly Willoughby had broken down partly for that reason, but for other reasons as well, some of which can't be discussed. He asks quite early on and the format of the show is we see him at home talking about the things that have befallen him. And we see him with his family and we see him in a studio before he goes. And he says, you know, will this be my opportunity for reflection?

5:36No, on the basis of what I've seen. I would call this a voyage to the limits of self-pity. It really, I mean, I think there was almost zero contrition at all in the episode I saw. He said, I screwed up. I made a mistake. But otherwise, it's a sort of picnic of narcissism. There's some funny sort of quotes that you have to laugh at. He says, you know, he says, I'm four to one to do the other jungle show. And he's asked, you know, will you do it? By the way, you haven't been asked. Anyway, so he says, I'm a celebrity. Well, my best friends host it. But there are just some channels you won't work for.

6:08Some people you won't work for. i'm sure kevin ligo over at itv director of programs is crying into his coffee about that one i can't imagine kevin ligo at itv ever crying into yeah he's like a sort of he's like a sort of a terminator for people i think his tears won't liquefy if he watches this episode let's put it that way um he talks a lot about scoffield talks a lot about three shits um who have done him over i don't know who they are but you can assume they're executives i suspect that uh one is holly who, by the way, has gone through some horrific stuff in the last year. I mean, genuinely, that legal case of the person who was plotting to rape and kill her.

6:49I mean, the most horrible thing. Anyhow, you see the stuff with Schofield and his wife and daughters that start having sort of family barbecue. And he sort of hammerly deadpans to them all. Are you OK? Which is something that Holly said when she came back to this morning after he had departed. So I think that was a sort of little drive by on her. There's a significant loathing of the media, a medium via which he, of course, had a great 40-year career. He says... I think for balance, if I was Schofield, I would have a significant loathing of the media as well at the moment. He says, let me get on with the quiet life you've all given me.

7:22You're on a reality TV show on Channel 5, but OK. What don't you miss about TV? You learn a lot about people. You really learn a lot. And I don't miss that. Wow. There is a sense when you're watching this that he doesn't remotely understand what has happened. He says, I will not be defeated by it. And there's a bit when he's eating a mango, which I really thought could serve as a review of the entire episode. He says, the bitterness sucks the inside of your cheeks in. Well, yes. And that's show business. Yeah. Yes. And his attempts at fishing, he says, this must be so embarrassing to watch. Well, yes, I did find it.

7:57I can see why Channel 5, you can see why Channel 5 done this. Yeah. Yeah, I get it. And it seems, you know, no harm, no foul. It's literally just him on an island. You know you're going to get huge publicity. We're talking about it. Other people are going to watch it for sure. It's going to be very big business for Channel 5. And again, there's been no court case, so it's not a Hugh Edwards situation. There's nothing stopping anybody putting Philip Schofield on the television. It's just a matter of time before he came on TV. He's still pushing that line, by the way, unwise but not illegal, which crisis PR gave to him.

8:28And I have to say, oh, my God, the crisis PR needed a crisis PR. that was not yeah i i he i think he's dropped the illegal so he now says it was unwise i'm not yet illegal yeah you know what unwise and illegal yeah you know what i should not have set fire to that warehouse when i think about it it was unwise also against the law now i think about it um so yeah i absolutely understand why they did it would i have done it probably not maybe leave it another six months or something if i was philip scofford would i have done it absolutely oh you can see why i did it they've got no right no one's got a right of reply yeah he controls the narrative absolutely he films himself he hasn't got a mole rajan interviewing him no absolutely which is a lovely place to be for anybody at any given time honestly any day you go where a mole rajan is not interviewing you you just think you know what i will tuck that day in my back pocket and keep it with me uh so yeah i get it and also you know philip schofield through philip schofield and his family through philip schofield is obviously very very different to most other people so you know he's coming from a completely different angle which is he wants his stuff out there so it's sort of perfect for all sides i would say but what you really want of course is to be on the show and for everybody to go actually you are forgiven and actually we do now understand your side of the story we do understand your perspective welcome back into the fold but you don't think that's what's happening here we'll come to whether he can parlay this into a return to television in a bit but i what i would say is i'll be really interested to see what you think when you watch it because for me I found it such a sort of manned portrait of a man who knows how television works yes so there's a bit at the start where he sort of gives himself you know he keeps he gives himself a potential arc he says I want to see if the ultimate isolation can finally set me free that's clever there's a bit at the start where he's they have an interview with him back you know before he's got to the island he says I'm gonna say this now and then we'll cut to and then he says I'm really good at fire and then they duly do cut to him not actually being able to get the fire going.

10:29And there's a load of mugging the camera like he's doing one of those silly demos on this morning. And I just felt incredibly managed throughout it all. Like, yeah, I can see what you're trying to do. You've also said to us what you're trying to do. And I found it just for that reason, a sort of double layer of cynicism because you're sort of being shown how he's going to manipulate you into saying I've actually done nothing wrong um as i say itv didn't have a right of reply i would watch a show where they put um kevin ligo now on a desert island for uh a week genuinely i'd watch that for people we talk about kevin sometimes and obviously people don't know who he is we always need to talk about but he's an yeah we do uh he is an incredible character and if you put kevin ligo on an island for a week he's indiscreet enough if you ever have lunch with him if you left him on a desert island by himself for a week and then just hand it in prompt cards like Schofield, Ant and Deck, Daytime TV.

11:23I would honestly, that's a ratings winner. It would be truly epic, but I have to say it's less so with Schofield. Also, the sort of sense of self-importance is titanic. He talks about, he says, the three shits, they've taken pretty much everything. Reputation, dignity, legacy. Legacy. I mean, your legacy is whatever inherited audience you leave over for Loose Women when you wind up at the end of the programme, right? That's your legacy, OK? The self-importance is extraordinary. And it does slightly remind you of the personality we were dealing with him, which, spoiler, in my view, had some part in his downfall.

11:59There's a little thing of a tarantula running away from him. Everyone's a critic. I mean, maybe he thinks he's being winsome, but honestly, I kept watching it thinking, there will be palm trees on this island on the phone to their agent saying, get me off this job. I do not want to work with this guy. No, I've had enough. I'm not saying you meet them all on the way back down but there wasn't that much support for Philip Schofield because a lot of people, not all people but a lot of people found him very difficult to work with It's often the case when people do do something that is unwise but not illegal if people do illegal things by and large that's it for them in television and rightly so if you do something that is on that razor's edge where there is a group of people could without full knowledge of the facts go that seems fair enough what he did I kind of get it and in those situations tax avoidance things like that the way that you have treated people over the years becomes very very important the relationships that you've grown and the way that you've dealt with people actually means you can be protected and looked after and there is an easier route back and you're right and I don't know his relationship particularly with people at ITV but he didn't seem to have very many defenders he didn't seem to have many people who would go out to bat for him and I often think it's interesting when agents dump clients as well when they haven't done anything illegal like if you're you ed was a of course you dump your client there's no way around it but if your agents are dumping you as well then that's interesting his agents were ymu the only reason if you're ymu that you would dump that client is you you had absolutely no previous knowledge of how they might behave in any way whatsoever and this has all come as a shock to you which of course is not true so if you're ymu i think reputationally it's difficult for them to reconcile what they've done with what they'd known about him previously so I understand why there's some beef there I kind of get that you know you can't support someone support someone support someone and then the second you know publicly things come out you don't support somebody so that's a that's a tricky one his daughter became his who used to work for YMU left YMU to become his publicist but actually YMU did go in with his daughter many months later to ITV saying is there a blacklist at ITV is Philip on it?

14:12Why is he not getting, you know, well, I don't know if you remember something from 10 minutes ago, but this is why he's not currently working at ITV. But I don't know whether there's some sort of residual relationship there. I didn't quite understand why someone who dumped him then went in and said, you've been treated, you've treated him very badly. My absolute favourite bit, by the way, of that thing we did the World Television Society conference a couple of weeks ago was Amol Rajan interviewing Tim Davey at the BBC and saying, will Hugh Edwards ever work for the BBC again? And Tim Davey going, no.

14:39And Amol Rajan going, why it's like have you opened the newspapers this morning do you do you have access to the internet take a guess one of the things philip scofield says in this is that it was to do with homophobia maybe there was some of that in the coverage but he said if it had been a young woman if that had been the case with me and it had been a woman pat on the back well done mate well i think that if you're in an almost 40 year age gap relationship you're the most senior person on that show and this person is the most junior person on that show. You first met them when they were 15.

15:14You say nothing happened until they were 20. And that person, if it was a woman, and that woman had lost her dream job and was now jobbing around the pub trade and really have her entire adult life having to be discussing this thing, then no, you would not have been getting a pat on the back for me. And I just think that's complete nonsense. And it might be a nice story he likes to tell himself when there's nobody to challenge him over his little beach bonfire. but that's a ridiculous point of view. Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, maybe in the 1980s before any of us were in the workplace but that absolutely, it would be held over you for the rest of your career if you did do that, if you had that reputation.

15:50I mean, listen, talk to Jermaine Genas if you want to know whether it's pure homophobia or whether actually inappropriate relations in the workplace with colleagues are, you know, Jermaine Genas is in a relationship, blah, blah, blah. So there's all sorts of, as always with these things, they're always complicated but the basic truth of it is what he did was inappropriate and I've never worked in a workplace, I've never worked in a television production where it would have been acceptable or whether, even if there was nothing you could do about it, whether people would have patted him on the back.

16:19And anybody, by the way, in his life who would have patted him on the back are people that you would want to drum out of the business. Anyway. I agree. And I think saying, oh, in the gay world, this is totally normal, is a form of homophobia in itself. So I think we don't need to have him on his high horse. One thing I would love to talk about with you, because I do think it's fun, The island format. It's really interesting. Islands and reality TV. When they first started doing reality TV, lots of shows quickly became on islands. And I sort of love what islands... They wanted something, or subconsciously they wanted something, this is reflexively part of the choice, where kind of like normal rules don't apply.

16:57The culture has done all this work, the heavy lifting, ever since Robinson Crusoe, you just think, oh, okay, people are just having to do things that they wouldn't normally do to survive. Normal rules don't apply. It might turn really nasty, but that's only to be expected we're on an island all of those kind of things so i find the island format it's a place where you're gonna either you know fuck fight or find yourself and i find that sort of hilarious although if you're by yourself like philip schofield you can't there's a couple of those you can't do um i would say i think you could have a fight there i'm really back in for that uh yeah it's funny enough it's it's exactly like um crime fiction in a funny kind of way modern crime fiction which is you need somewhere where people cannot escape from and and don't have mobile coverage and if you've got that suddenly you've got yourself a plot um yeah islands have always been the thing and this weirdly harks back to one of the very first so cast away years and years ago late 80s joanna lumney was abandoned on a desert island and that's where survivor came from charlie parsons said to me oh joanna lumney's been this island can we do something on an island and i said why don't you send a load of different people over there and you vote one out each week I mean, that's, you know, voting out and that's all that kind of stuff.

18:04And that's Survivor. And ever since, as you say, there's lots and lots of versions of this. You know, and Bear Grylls did his thing, The Island, which almost went very, very badly wrong. But, you know, that had crew. And by the way, working as a crew on those shows is an insane job because you are also doing exactly what these people are doing. And it's sort of miserable. But anyway, no crew on this one. But islands, yeah, are a real trope. And it is just that thing of you can't go anywhere. I mean, even in the jungle, there's doctors around, the crew are nearby. On an island, there's just something about it, which means the fripperies of television.

18:40You know there's not a green room. Do you remember on 30 Rock, they had a fake pitch for one called Milf Island, which was going to be like 25 super hot moms, 58th grade boys, no rules. And then, of course, TLC actually did commission Milf Manor. Is a manor an island? Can't all the semi-cancelled men be put on an island and the prize is that they can return to their career exactly as they left it? And it's everyone. It's like Schofield, Scott Rubin. They haven't gone to prison. Redemption Island? Yeah. Well, I think it would be Murder Island because they would tread over each other's warm corpses to get back to exactly how it was before they were cancelled or semi-cancelled.

19:22But it would be a whole series of men sort of saying, no, but I'm really reflected. Like who was reflected the most? I wonder if it would. I think, yes. Reflection Island. Well, Schofield's not reflecting. It would be a child. But he is reflecting, isn't he? He's deflecting. Yeah. I would call it like Edgelord of the Flies. And they would all have to, and they would all end up killing each other. But how long do you think, okay, let's get to this final question then, if he's not sort of, how long do you think a wildernessing should last? For me, this is about 15 minutes after he departed. we've seen that lots of these people are being released back into the wild slowly people like the producer Scott Rudin in the States who people think is yeah Scott Rudin's back he's coming back through theatre okay all of these yeah it's like a beautiful story they're being released from captivity prison of their own making Louis C.K.

20:11came back very quickly he got a Grammy lots of these people are sort of coming back out you know coming back into the wild But how long should a wildernessing last? In politics, it's about five minutes nowadays. See, here's the interesting thing, isn't it? Because for us, it doesn't feel like Philip Schofield's wildernessing has lasted very long because we don't think about Philip Schofield very often. No. So since, you know, he was wildernessed. He's not been indispensable to the culture. Exactly. We've thought about him 14 times. Whereas Philip Schofield is Philip Schofield all day, every day.

20:42Philip Schofield's family are his family all day, every day. So it's very, very present to them, the wildernessing. and so 18 months to him he's lived every single minute of every single day so he would obviously be fast-forwarding the de-wildeness thing we call it de-wildeness thing right yeah that's the word we do now yeah uh whereas for us we're just thinking oh no i need to have thought of you maybe 40 times before you're allowed back and in in your terms that's like a good amount that would be four years or or or something like that so people will always try and come back out of the wilderness quicker than we would like them to what will he get out of this a travelogue that's the question is what does he get out of this so where does he want to get back to what is it that he wants to do and i'm aware in this show that you know he said this might be the last thing i ever do i just wanted my right to reply and as you rightly point out the way he deals with this tv producer tv brain that's how he's that's where he's comfortable that's where he's happy and he's done it very very well a number of times in lots of different places so if you are philip schofield then of course you want to come back onto television there's no you know that's absolutely you find and of course by the way you've done this program of course you're going to do all of these things if he feels he has not done anything wrong if he feels he's been over punished and he feels like the job that he used to do which he was good at is something he's not allowed to do of course his job is to step by step come back to where he was but in terms of an industry it's hard to work out where the next step is for him so the question is yeah where do you go next now do you go on i'm of celebrity we're going to talk a little bit about yeah he's not going to get put by itv can i just put that out here i just he's not going to get put by itv but then you always get to the stage where channels become desperate or a format starts losing some of its luster or some of its viewers tom cruise though he's not box office i just fundamentally there's a lot about this that's disproportionate the way that people talk about this morning who hosts it no offense you You know, it's a great show for the time of day.

22:41But we talk about this more than like British foreign policy. Yes, good. And it's like a show with... Well, no, I actually think that's quite important. Yeah, I do too. Yeah, I don't want to do a podcast about it. But I would say that we talk about this show that has, you know, under a million viewers, significantly under a million viewers, in a sort of feverish way that is disproportionate to its surely actual influence within the culture. and this is why he thinks that he is an indispensable you know broadcaster who can talk about something like legacy it's like it's like when piers morgan left gmb and he was saying well good luck without me and of course the ratings are identical it's occasionally he'll he'll quote that they've gone down but they went down from the one episode where he walked out which weirdly got more uh viewers and so he takes that as his benchmark and actually listen if he's listening he knows the truth of this it's exactly the same as it was if not slightly more and they've got loads of great new um hosts on that show they run it in a very interesting way so morgan was able to do that and it's not just that thing of saying i want a legacy morgan was then able to parlay that into like a 50 million pound deal with news international which is insane for nothing yeah for literally literally got nothing the channel they put him on is gone but anybody who works for news international any like murdoch anyone like that if you are thinking of spending 50 million pound on somebody talk to just any television producer anyone any single person say what do you think we're getting for this money what is it that he brought to your program you know what extra return on investment did you get on gmb for him being there and they will every single one i tell you zero which is not to say he wasn't a good presenter on that because he was not to say it wasn't an entertaining watch because it was but he bought no extra money into that they didn't have any experience of television um so the question is where does Schofield go next what can he do and we live now in a world and a culture actually those gatekeepers are much much much less important um you know the Russell brands of this world can go on their own platforms and produce their own content and find their own audience Schofield I think is of a generation where that is alien to him he's absolutely a beast of television a beast of terrestrial television so his instinct is always how do I make my comeback I make my comeback by going on channel five rather than I make my comeback like Russell Brand by starting to baptize people in a river isn't it uh and so you know in in a way that's uh it's Schofield's way of coming back is just the way he understands which is I'm going to go on television which people can click on their remote control and they can find me but actually the way of coming back now is very different but Ellen DeGeneres has done the same thing she's done a big new stand-up special in America after all the kind of bullying allegations and she said uh yeah they accused me of this they accused me of that well I'm a strong woman and you think yeah oh again that's been widely received as a sorry not sorry yeah and people don't like that yeah i feel like we have not seen last of either ellen de generis or philip schofield or unfortunately russell brand i think they're going to be part of our culture brand we definitely haven't seen the last of but yes i i they'll never be what they were again that couldn't be more clear but um we'll have to see in what way they managed to inveigle their way back into sections of the public affection.

25:59Would you, just to people listening, would you recommend they watch the Schofield thing or leave it unwatched? I think it's, well, I mean, it's totally up to you. It will give them ratings and then he'll take something from that. But I think it's quite interesting for the reasons I've said, a sort of television native, telling you what he's doing and then doing it and trying to redeem himself in a really sort of very obvious and in my view, quite sort of, you couldn't call it gossamer-touched way. and I think it's quite interesting to watch from that point of view. But yes, as an exercise in not giving people rights to reply, not telling the whole story, again, it's interesting.

26:36All of these things are interesting. They're in the culture. I watch them all. I don't have the sort of things that I refuse to watch, really. On that note, whatever that note was, and I think it's like a tightrope that we're going to be walking on for many years to come in our culture. I wonder what advertised in Philip Schofield's breaks because I haven't seen that bit. Oh, yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, sorry. I'm doing that as a really quite poor segue into our own commercial break. Commercial break. I wonder what's advertising in us talking about what's advertising in Philip Schofield's show.

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29:05welcome back everybody now immersive experiences uh two sides of that coin i'm going to talk a little bit about the taskmaster one which is all being announced this week but uh there was recently a Bridgerton immersive experience which didn't go quite as well as it might have done. Yes the cultural mania for immersive experiences which we're also going to discuss. The Bridgerton one I've got to say right off the bat because a lot of people won't have got that far down the news reports. It was not an official Netflix or Shondaland experience. By the way there are a load of Bridgerton experiences which we'll come to in a minute.

29:38These immersive experiences where you turn up somewhere and so you're in the middle of a ball and there's wonderful kind of It can be all sorts of things you can do. Monopoly Live, there's a sort of dopamine one in London. There are so many of these things which we'll talk about in a bit. But the Bridgerton one, this was an off-brand one, I'm going to stress that, in Detroit. And I think it cost$200 to attend. People spend hundreds of dollars on their outfits. They look great in the pictures. they were invited to step into the enchanting world of the regency era with sophistication grace and historical charm now what they actually stepped into was a world of one violin i think sort of strip lighting no chairs um there was for some reason that no one none of the reports has adequately explained a stripper's pole with an exotic dancer in the center of really um again not necessarily typically regency but i didn't comment on too much i'll leave that to the rest history but and they had soggy noodles and chicken wings um and all the organizers have said as i say not netflix or shondaland have said there's that there were organizational challenges which is like yeah i've seen the pictures and so it's been one of those things a bit like the wonka one or whatever but there are many many bridges and experiences it's been spun off into it's obviously the biggest show on netflix so they've had the queen's ball which is in cities across the world and you pay a lot of money and you go and you there's somebody who's as queen charlotte and she chooses the diamond of the ball and all of this and that's the real deal yeah there's bridget and by candlelight which is concerts of all the sort of orchestral concerts i know is there a stripper's pole there there's a thing that says you will smell flowers and you will not be imagining things by the way what you are in fact smelling is a synthetic wisteria scent that is being pumped through the venue but anyway you will smell flowers sounds like a really minor thing are you because you're kidding me we can smell flowers yeah two hundred dollars yes please let's smell some flowers yeah but this is in fact you're experiencing a synthetic version of honestly for me i prefer that because you don't have to go outside well i'm going to come to immersive experiences in a bit because there are so many the ones in london at the moment i mean this you know van gogh live that the sort of ways of looking at art is it art we'll come along to that there's been a darling finally is it art dopamine dopamine land the faulty taz dining experience alcatraz prison cocktail bar theatrical experience no fundamentally different understanding of the rock than i'd ever and you know anyway whatever mama mia the party which i believe ingrid has attended she yes she she a couple of her friends took her along to that uh and you'd be you'd go a long way to find a bigger fan of abba than ingrid i have to say the first half hour she was dubious uh the The last few hours she had a wonderful time.

32:19She really, really enjoyed herself. Her and a couple of friends and a series of Americans, all of whom were Trump supporters, but I think all dancing on tables by the end of it. It sounds like a thing. Why can't we just come together while the music can happen? Yeah. Why can't we just... Exactly that. Now tell me about the Taskmaster, because the signs have gone up for the Taskmaster experience, and my daughter was seeing them all around the tube and was asking all about it. So can you please tell me about that? I believe you've got some insight on that. Yes, I've been talking to, as a Taskmaster alumnus, I've been talking to them all about it.

32:54So it is interesting because, you know, some of those things, when they get advertised, you just think, could this be awful? I went to one of those immersive plays years ago, which everyone loved, and it literally might have been the worst evening of my life. Punch Drunk are the most famous immersive theatre company, and they've done lots of these immersive experiences. They're all like, wear masks, walk between different rooms, and stuff like that. I just honestly put on a play. You would absolutely hate those. There were no Maltesers, nothing. But this world where you go along like the Crystal Maze experience, which Ingrid's also done with the family and loved it.

33:24So, you know, when people put a bit of money and love behind these things and when the show is involved, they can be great. So Taskmaster experience. Now, everything Taskmaster does tends to be good. And it tends to be good because Alex Horner's The Talent loves that show and puts his all into things. And the production team behind it, Andy Devonshire and his team, also love it. It's one of those shows where they live it. And, you know, Andy Devonshire's been making this for 10 years nonstop and adores it. Talking to everybody behind it, it sounds like it's going to be amazing. So it is sort of an immersive theatre experience.