The Secrets Of Tipping Point

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1:12Hello and welcome to this episode of The Rest is Entertainment, questions and answers edition. I'm Marina Hyde. And I'm Richard Osman. Hello Marina. Hello Richard, how are you? I'm very well. Hello listeners as well. Now listen, I speak for a nation when I am able to ask you the question that you so wanted to be asked about your dream life, Richard. Oh yes. About the workings of your subconscious. Sarah Longford and others obligingly wrote in, following your Come and Get Me play, a question for Richard. Have you ever had a dream about a perfect episode of The Bill? Sarah, thank you so much for that question.

1:51I did, yes. I was this is listen this doesn't count as an official question right this is this is any other business yes I once you know occasionally you know they say that um Paul McCartney dreamt the uh the tune of yesterday in a dream and occasionally things will come to me but um yeah I was I was once dreaming and I dreamt the perfect episode of the bill and when I say perfect I mean it was faultless it had nothing everything I had like the regular people in it it had a good precinct to it It had a really, really good twist. Like the whole thing, but the whole thing was there. And I woke up, it's the middle of the night, and I could remember it.

2:29I could remember the entire thing. And I always keep a little pad by the bed. So I thought, this is like free money for me, right? Because you're thinking, I cannot believe. I didn't have to do anything. I literally, I haven't had to do anything. My subconscious has done the whole thing. I've got this entire thing. And even if it's not going to work for the bill, it's going to work for something. because it's great and the twist was great um so i wrote it down and it took me about half an hour so i was writing down every single bit that i remember of it the whole thing so i'm writing down this this thing and i get to the end i'm like i'll go back to sleep money in the bank anyway i wake up and i forgot i did it and then i thought oh my god i woke up in the middle of the night uh and i wrote down the perfect episode of the bill that's such good news and so look over my pad and this is what this is word for word what i wrote perfect episode of the bill which took me about 40 minutes to write a man throws a brick through a window but it is a different man and that was it different underlined twice oh my goodness a man throws a brick through a window but it is a different man wow i mean i sent it off and they made it yeah but uh but honestly in my in whatever waking state i was in i thought i've absolutely got this this is amazing this is so good it's got everything okay i think there's something that still could be salvaged i will personally pay for you to go to one of those people who you know and puts you maybe like not past lives, but past dreams therapy, and tries to extract that particular dream.

4:13I think that was it. I honestly think that was it. I think that the issue was me waking up. It happens with ideas when you're waking sometimes where you go, hold on a minute, if I just come up with the greatest game show of all time, and then the next day you go, no, I haven't. My notes app on my phone is entirely that. Just incredibly bad ideas. I love random notes where you go, I have no idea what that refers to. Or people to call. Who is this? I don't know anyone by that name. But listen, if anyone out there from any... I mean, Amblin, we have a relationship already, Amblin. If you're interested, the rights to that are still available.

4:48But it is a different man. But it is a different man. Yeah, I had it. Oh, my God. It was so vivid in every way. A different man. I tell you what, it's only the plot of the next rock art house movie. A different man. Yeah. And maybe he doesn't throw a brick through a window. He throws a rock through a window. and The Rock is his old career as a blockbuster movie guy and The Window is the window between him and Art House Acceptance so much symbolism so much symbolism I love this let's work on this straight after this episode it turns out I did not dream the perfect episode of The Bill it turns out I dreamt the perfect plot for a Rock movie wonderful shall we get on to our actual questions but thank you to that might be the most asked question we've ever had so thank you to everyone and well done Sarah Longford for winning the raffle of being the person who got to ask the question.

5:38Rachel Fleming has a question. We talked about this the other week and said we're going to have a think about it. She says, my sons are 11 and 13 years old. This is titled indoctrination. My sons are 11 and 13 years old and I am desperate to educate them on the basis of good entertainment. We have all been there, Rachel. Can I have a film, TV show and book that I should force them to consume to ensure they grow up with good taste? I love this question and I thought about it really hard. I've actually got an 11 and a 13 year old and a 14 year old, but I asked all of them and we discussed it. And I feel like I should do the book first because actually everyone agreed on this.

6:13And it was going to be the one I suggested too. It's Animal Farm. They've all read it. They all loved it. And they all found it really amazing that it could be a great story, but it could be a sort of allegory or symbolize something completely different. And I remember reading it when I was pretty young. First of all, not to over-egg the whole short book thing, but it is a short book, Rachel. It is a short book and it's a great story. But when you say, oh, and by the way, and did you know, and you can talk about it that, you know, the horse symbolizes this or whatever it is. I think it's really interesting for young people and children to think, oh, I see something can say one thing and mean another.

6:53or allegory which like in many centuries gone past everyone sort of understood allegory all the time but we don't see quite so much of i think it it's that's a really good one opens up a whole area of culture opens up anything that where you go oh i didn't understand the world could be like this funny enough catcher in the ride that i read it in my teens that's a book where you go oh i'm sort of inside the brain of someone from another time but talking very interestingly and talking sort of how my brain worked as well and again you just think oh people from other times are the same as me that's exactly what my second book was because as you know i can't ever make a choice between so that was going to be the second but my husband said oh my god catcher in the rye because my mother gave it to me i deliberately didn't read it and when it got oh i was older i read it and thought oh my god i should have read this ages ago it's brilliant so and all my children said catcher in the rye and i totally agree with you that i remember reading that and thinking gosh this seems to have been written a long time ago but this is so how i think so that is a definite one but also with book because if you can have a lifetime of books that's a you know it's like i always think i'm so lucky i like sport because it's given me a lifetime of joy and i'm so glad that i was introduced to books in the right way that i understand that even if in the first five pages of something if i'm thinking oh i wish i hadn't started reading a book uh that actually i know that if you stick with it it brings you the the greatest joy so you you will be so careful the books that transition you from the famous five upwards yeah yeah i'm pushing a book on someone before they're able to understand that's why i think i would have to say animal farm is the number one because i just think it's i've never read it have you not no well i know about it oh my goodness well i mean really it's not too late for me now no it's not it's fantastic it's really Anyway, right.

8:44Movies. I don't know what age you are, Rachel Fleming, but I was thinking what I have really liked is to have movies from my generation that we loved. And again, my children said this. They said, modern movies are rubbish. That's not true. And also they like lots of things, but they all loved Ferris Bueller's Day Off when we showed it to them and they watched it multiple times. It's nice that they like a thing that we liked when we were about that age. And so if that's not the era of you, Rachel Fleming, and that's a bit earlier than your era, which it might well be, something that you sort of loved, that some things, you know, they couldn't really get into The Matrix, which I thought was quite, because I remember thinking, OK, well, that's just like the best movie of the 90s or the most important movie.

9:27Some things age, though, don't they? Especially things that are sort of sci-fi sometimes ages. Well, they're redoing, when we were talking about Mike DeLuca and Pam Abdi, they're going to redo The Matrix at Warner's. I was going to suggest Pulp Fiction, but then I remembered the ages and I'm already in trouble for pushing unacceptable things on. I'm already in trouble for apparently showing a nine-year-old The Shining. So I'm probably not going to recommend Pulp Fiction because it's not suitable. Although maybe, if you want a Stephen King adaptation, maybe Shawshank Redemption is a good movie to watch at 13.

10:01because there's nothing too terrible. IMDb is very, very good, funnily enough, in that sort of nanny state bit of when it tells you all the bits of a film that might be problematic because you can remember watching a film when you were growing up and then you show it to your kids and you suddenly go, oh, I'd forgotten that happened in this film and it's a four minute long sequence. But IMDb is your friend there because it will tell you if there's anything that's awkward about films that you loved because these kids would have seen Back to the Future already, right? Yeah, they might not have. Yeah, I mean, that was the other one that we said.

10:33I just feel like pick something from your era because then it's nice to have that at least connection. So if I'm just naming movies that came out too early and they weren't a big thing for you, find one that is because then you have that thing together. But also re-watch first because the movies are not always what you remember. No. So look up the IMDb thing just to make sure everything is fine. But also just re-watch because you might go, why did I like that? Yeah, I know. It's strange. I remember showing my kids the Pink Panther movies. I thought, great, we'll watch the Pink Panther movies because I just remember just being in tears of laughter when I watched them when I was a kid, you know, Peter Sellers and that.

11:08And we were watching it and like 20 minutes in, you're thinking, this is very slow. Well, that's the thing is that a lot of things now, because everything just suddenly starts with a whole action sequence. If it doesn't, you're like, sorry, you're establishing character. But also not in a particularly interesting way because, I mean, there's loads of films where, you know, the establishment of character you know Shawshank Redemption is a very slow burn but every single bit of that burn pays off whereas there's some films you just think there's no reason for you to start this slowly or continue this slowly at the time of course it was an amazing movie and I loved it but there are certain things where the sensibilities have changed so watch it yourself first just just to make sure okay yes I agree with that or at least read the synopsis and then tv shows um it was interesting I was trying to think oh you know people can be quite fussy about laughter tracks because that's just a thing that doesn't exist anymore and and yet lots of people as you can see lots of young people watch friends and they don't mind it so you can obviously kind of say let's watch Seinfeld or let's watch something that's brilliantly plotted and that they might absolutely love but I was quite interested my children said documentaries I you made us watch documentaries and I really like and there was so weirdly World War II in colour they thought was totally amazing because it's something that you will have learned about at school and the other thing is a really good series called explained this is this is documentaries this is like like entry-level documentaries and they explain everything from things like credit to sugar addiction to all sorts of like absolutely wild and wonderful things um and they're all about 15 minutes a lot and you learn such a lot but it's done in a really engaging way so i'm surprised not to be recommending like a sitcom or something um but to be recommending documentaries but often you can otherwise sort of think that that because otherwise they're only going to watch very very short form things but these are quite some of these can be quite short form but it's the world war ii in color thing is sort of incredible because it's definitely something that i've learned about at school and then to see it like that is kind of revolutionary whereas i absolutely would recommend the american office or brooklyn 99 both of them from season two onwards and because i just think that's a that's a lifetime of joy you're bringing your kids and there's nothing too terrible but but at the same time you know there's interesting stuff in there you know it's not they're not for children but there's nothing in there that's going to scare the horses too much yeah both of those i would absolutely endorse those messages it's a great question though and again um anyone listening if you've got if you've had something that's worked brilliantly on anyone that age just something where you showed something to a kid and it opened up a world to them absolutely let us know and we'll read some of those out next week as well So it's a great question.

13:46Here's one that is destined for you from Helen O'Sullivan, Richard. When a novel's published, it's usually in hardback first with a simultaneous Kindle release. In the Times bestseller list, do the Kindle purchases count in the hardback or paperback charts or both or neither? Also, how is the price of a Kindle edition decided? I've just looked at the new Robert Galbraith and the Kindle edition is£3 more expensive than the hardback. Seems hard to justify that difference. Yes. As always, capitalism will give you the answer to why that is. but I'll get onto that. Yes, those Sunday Times charts, they don't include Kindle or audio.

14:21Do they not? No, 10, 15 years ago, that would be fine. No, so if you see the numbers next to a book in the first week will literally be print copies. So the Robert Gow... When are they going to change that? Well, we'll find out. There's a reason why the Kindle isn't in there. The audio, I don't know why it's not in there. But the Robert Gow Brace book, I think it sold 50 ,000 copies, but that's 50 ,000 hardback books. And these days, Kindle, fun enough, is taking a bit of a dive, but audio is going absolutely great guns. So you could probably add another 30 ,000 to that. I would have thought between those two formats.

14:55So it looks like 50 ,000, but she's probably sold 80 ,000. And the money is the same. In fact, you get slightly more for audio and Kindle. The reason Kindle historically has not been in there is because there are a huge amount, because Kindle is its own ecosystem, and there are a huge amount of books on there for 99p or for 15p or something like that. So you can get enormous volumes of books, which are sort of virtually free or might as well be, and lots of, you know, buy 10 of these books for a pound each. And so it makes the charts look a bit peculiar sometimes. And it's entirely loss-leaders, so no one's making money out of a 99p book other than, you know, bringing you to their other books.

15:38so that's why kindle has never been in there it it seems unusual now that audiobooks would not be in there because it's it's massively growing and i like you know the sales of mine across the years and and audio is becoming a bigger and bigger and bigger part of it and people putting a lot more money into it and you know i've said before i listen to a lot of audio bits because my eyesight's not great and there's lots of people like that and i think that if you're reading on hardback kindle audio it's exactly the same thing i mean it's identical so it makes no sense that it wouldn't be included um as a rule of thumb you know you can add on maybe another 50 60 percent to the hardback sales if you're looking at audio and um kindle later on when the paperbacks out that comes down a little bit but it's it's a huge business they should change it yeah i think certainly for audio they should do it i mean i i would love it because it's you know i can i see what the numbers say and then i can see what the actual numbers are and those two things are very different i mean it's i'd never seen a situation where the audio and kindle would make a massive difference to the charts in terms of the positions so that yuval noah harari his last book would went insane on audio for whatever reason i mean insane on audio but you wouldn't ever see that shown anywhere and again the bookseller will show you chart the audio charts and things like that but not it's not not on the weekly things and not in the sunday times things in terms of the price well the reason for that is um that hardbacks will come out so the robert galbraithing i think had a recommended retail price of 30 pounds but you're not really you're not paying 30 pounds for it in most places because you know hardbacks they put them at that price so that booksellers can can discount them and everyone's still making money on that but there are an awful lot more bookshops than there are places to buy kindle books and audio books and so there's much more of a captive market in kindle and audio so if you've got a 30 pound book by robert galbraith you know you can get that for 12 pound on amazon perhaps 18 20 at your indie bookshop because as we said before they've got to pay their tax they've got to pay rents and all sorts of things so no one's fleecing you and so it's heavily discounted whereas on kindle there's not there's not really an economic reason to to discount it particularly because where else are you going to get it from so you know the recommended price will be the same but the discount will be much lower and so it ends up as the head on is saying it's three pound more expensive than the hardback and that's purely because there are fewer competitors in that market and so it's that that weird thing that you know does happen and that's why they're more expensive but yeah it's it it wouldn't make a huge difference to the ranking of the charts but it certainly make a difference to the amount of copies people can see you've sold and and if you are one of the publishers it's great having that big headline um hardback figure but the the money you can get the scale you can get from audio and you can get from kindle because you're not having to print anything you're not having to you're Every time you've sold a load of books, you have to reprint and you have to send them out to the shops.

18:54And you've got reps and you've got lorries and you've got distribution warehouses and you've got all of that stuff, none of which you have for Kindle and audiobook. So it's a very, very nice business to be in. I would say that for everybody. If you are taking a cut of e-book and audiobook, which the publishers are, it's the last kind of lovely bit of low-hanging fruit in the publishing industry. It's wearing an audio rather like in the same way that YouTube podcasts or whatever it is. Well, maybe because your book, The Impossible Fortune, is out next Thursday. It is, yeah. A week on the 25th. So maybe we can talk a bit more about the split.

19:33Pre-orders and how all that works. I think it's really interesting. Of course we can. But yeah, that's the reason. But you get it a lot. People are asking, why is the Kindle more expensive? And the Kindle is more expensive because there's fewer places to buy it. Aha. Okay. Well, on that note, shall we proceed to a break? Let's do that.

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21:01Welcome back, everybody. Now, Julia McWilliam has written in with a question about tipping point. She says, in tipping point, how are the counters put into the machine? These are the questions we love. Yeah, I love this level of stuff. Okay, and is it emptied after every game? I'm also in a feud with friends, quite rightly, about what material the coins are made of. Please settle this once and for all. Thank you, Julia. I'm not going to settle it. That would be unfair. But, Julia, this feud is about to be settled and there is no one better to settle it than host of Tipping Point himself, Mr Ben Shepard.

21:36Ben, we have a feud. Can you answer all of Julia's questions, please? Hi there, Marina and Richard. Ben here on the set at Tipping Point filming series 15 and Julia sent in her question. I thought it would timely place to record it would be as we are refilling the machine. You can see here that's Will. Who's there? Wave Will. He's our counter counter and there's Julie who is a very important our adjudicator. What happens between each show? We have to empty the machine. Then we refill the machine. There are 80 counters on the bottom shelf. there are 80 counts on the top shelf every time there's a drop will comes flying in i say how many there are he confirms that by counting them we do the pickups and then they get taken out and then julie confirms how many are out the back so everything has to be very carefully counted and considered because of course we want to make sure every drop is carefully counted so everybody gets the exact money it's very competitive and also the question uh julia about what they're made of Here you go, I'll show you this.

22:37This is one of our counters. I can assure you they are plastic. They aren't metal. We get a lot of people suggesting we're using magnets in the machine. I've never yet found a magnet that can control plastic, but the counters are plastic. And then in the edit afterwards, we had lots of brilliant sound effects, which makes it sound like it's wringling and jangling down. so there you go a little insight into the magic that goes on when we are putting a tippement together and as you can see the machine now as they are putting them up is starting to take shape as you see at the top of the show and the machine is pneumatic as well so the shelf uh is propelled it was created by a guy called webbo who richard i'm sure you know webbo he has created all sorts of amazing things in the world of television including the uh the crystal dome at the end of the Crystal Maze.

23:23There you go. Love the podcast, guys. Any other questions? I'll look forward to hearing them. Wow. Okay. Number one. What a pro. What a pro. Thank you. One take. Incredible. We don't know it was one take. Could have been 50. Someone in the gallery going, yeah, sorry, Ben is still doing this for the rest of his entertainment. He'll be one take. I just love the punctuated by the sound of them shunting the counters around. That just reminds me of every show I've ever done. I love it. I love just watching the people behind it. Just the things you do, just in between shows just to kind of start the counter counter I mean it raises the stakes for everyone else who answers the question for us that was very impressively done if you are listening to this it's worth having a little look at that on YouTube as well that's great that was so great and Webbo thank you for your incredible contraption and also to have done the Dome in the Crystal Maze I mean really it's a bit of a I mean you could you could retire on that listen don't Webbo but you could do that's so cool oh Ben thank you so much thank you for that question Julia and I hope I wonder what side of the feud Julia was on I hope she was on the plastic side maybe she bought into the sound effects and thought it was metal but I hope she was plastic yeah I hear it's all magnets whatever show you do there's always some idiot at home no it's fixed because they do that you think okay alright alright smart ass Marina a question for you from Alan Roach Marina when you see someone reading your column in public do you ever get tempted to ask them if they found it funny no way not in a million years um there'd be a clue surely if they found it funny but well yes but also um that experience of seeing people reading your things which used to be much well i'll move on to how you can have it in a different way now but it used to be i used to often sit on trains when people had newspapers and you would see and believe me many is the time when I saw someone basically look at it and you know they've read like the first maybe two or three sentences, I don't know, and then turn over the page.

25:25That is a great lesson. By the way, I forget this lesson like probably every time. So don't look at my next column and think, oh, well, you didn't really learn that lesson. But it taught me to put something, you know, I know it's basic, put something good at the top to do things differently. I mean, there are columns I've written that have, you know, I've had a sleepless night and there's like one good joke and I've honestly put it in like the second sentence and it's a complete sleight of hand that people have laughed at the top, then you might keep them... Pink Panther could learn from that.

25:52Yeah, I mean, good point. But, I mean, by the way, as I've spoken before about the Guardian's analytics, which I really value and that they've allowed us to see our data, and you can see a sort of remote version. You don't actually have to watch the physical excruciation of them kind of checking out, but actually you can see when people bail out of an article. I thought you were going to say you can see where they laugh No, that would be good Yeah, that would be great But you can see where they've bailed effectively Because we have five clocks And so I would always hope to get five clocks If you get five gold clocks Then they've savoured every word But if you can see And by the way, this is no shade on people Sometimes you'll see that there's a news story That's got one clock And you know that that's because that's just one of those one fact news stories in a way that people see the headline thing, oh, I must know the answer to that.

26:46And it's, it necessarily has to come in the first or second paragraph. And then they stop reading. But you can see how long they've read, how long they sat with it, where they go afterwards. So I really value all of that. So I can see a virtual representation in that. It's not that bad, though, because it doesn't take that long to write a newspaper column, if I'm honest. But I have spoken to directors who have sat on planes next to people who've watched someone turn on their movie and then just like bailed on it after honestly two minutes. And I'm just a few years of my life doing that. Oh my God, that's bad.

27:18And a lot of directors will talk about people just walking out of, you know, I mean, Lars von Trier used to enjoy making people walk out of his premieres. Jean-Luc Godard used to say, there was a movie called Weekend and there was a sort of traffic sequence. It's sort of about capitalism. And when people found it really boring, obviously, and walked out, he said well this is a sort of that's part of the film's statement about consumerism is that you yeah yeah okay sure um but a lot of people directors i've spoken to so many directors in who've said that experience of being on a plane next to someone and seeing them watch your movie and then watching them switch off which is probably more painful because it took an awfully lot longer the thing about laughing in public is interesting isn't it because that's that's the thing that every writer wants if ever you see someone reading what it is you've done and which you do in public quite often it's if a family member or someone is reading something you've done if you see somebody laughing if i see someone laughing like on a train is takes every single ounce of what i have to not go up and say i'm so sorry can i just stop you could i just ask which which was the joke that's all that's the only thing i know and i've seen reading something then I want to say what were you laughing at because I want to know, yeah, you want to know which bit landed the best.

28:35Yeah, if you ever say to a writer of a sitcom or anything, oh yeah, no, we really enjoy the show, there's lots of good laughs they go, where where were the laughs, I'm so sorry, just which bits did you laugh at, what do you think gave you the biggest laugh, that's the that's the heroin hit for any writer isn't it, is did it make you laugh out loud, what was the bit what was the bit, what was the joke that made you laugh out loud. I have to understand And there are so many times, you know, and actually often when you're writing something, an actor will find a joke where there wasn't a joke. And I've actually found some of, weirdly, the ones that have made people laugh the most have been when I'm writing so quickly on a deadline.

29:13Like, say you're just doing something and it's a live thing and you haven't actually realized that you've written a joke. and weirdly some of those there's something about the spontaneity and just like you're so in the zone when you've written it that you think gosh I could have spent all day trying to come up with something good and something I didn't almost realise was a joke because I was writing so quickly has hit and landed much better than anything else would The different version of that funny enough going back to Kindle so it's not jokes because it never applies to them but on any book's Amazon page or Kindle page you can see the bits that have been highlighted the most.

29:50So you know on Kindle if there's a section that you like you can highlight it and there's an aggregation of that. I've never read a book on a Kindle so I didn't know that. So that's the equivalent of me turning pages over and doing all of that. So yeah as an author you can see the bits of your book that have been highlighted or high lit the most by Kindle readers. It's interesting isn't that? That's fascinating. You must love that. That's really interesting. As I say, it's never the jokes and it's always something short and pithy and usually something that's about life, usually like a life lesson, is the thing that people are highlighting.

30:25It's the thing that is something, if you're only highlighting, it's something you need at any given time. That's usually some sort of... I often think in your books, oh, that's such a good point about, yeah. And even though I laugh lots, but yes, I see. So people highlight those bits, like lessons for life. Lessons for life, yeah, exactly. That's fascinating. Is that us, Dan? I think that is our stun for today. That was great. Lovely questions. I really enjoyed that. We will be back tomorrow with a bonus episode about the absolute, maybe all-time classic, The Rocky Horror Picture Show. That's for our members.

30:58If you want to become a member, wrestlersentertainment.com. That'll be where you can find all the details, add free listening, all that kind of stuff, and all of our bonus episodes. There's a cracking little library being built up now. But for everybody else, we shall see you next Tuesday. See you next Tuesday.

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