Was Taylor Swift's Wedding Cringe?

16:48Richard Osman:It's the exact same trick, right? I've seen it before. Yeah. And they built a castle within... I mean, I'm saying a lot of this stuff out loud. I'm told that they built a sort of castle within and it was a sort of Cinderella sort of Alice in Wonderland themed party Yeah, I mean, it's fine I mean, you've got to have a theme And, you know, they obviously I have to Yeah, they have wedding planners Yeah And once you do have wedding planners, of course wedding planners have got to try and earn their money somehow So they're going to be throwing ideas at you and you're going to, you know, say yes to some of them Yeah, but you have to do something, don't you?

17:22Richard Osman:Yeah And, you know, they're busy people You know, they've got the recording albums they've got podcasts and we know how long that takes. Listen, it's their wedding. They can do absolutely what they want. They're clearly in love with each other. And I think that's really, really lovely. They're 40 minutes in love with each other. You could never. Yeah. But yes, I think we're allowed to talk about it as a cultural event because they made it a cultural event. It wasn't, as you say, it wasn't a quaint little wedding in upstate New York with, you know, a few friends and family. I mean, that would have been amazing.

17:50Richard Osman:Don't you think? And then they have a party here. I would have done that, do an acoustic set afterwards um invite sir paul invite stevie nicks who both played at the gig uh everyone plays acoustically in a tiny little under a pagoda and a new england church and then release that that's a lovely call it the wedding album that's if i was their wedding planner and i got i would watch that show so hard i got down to the last three um that's what i would have done i said look take your 26 million and the 26 million are given to charities that's 52 million i'll do this whole thing for 400 000 because i've got to include security you know so i figure 50 grand for the actual wedding 350 for security and stuff like that uh and then we can give 50 million to charity and we'll release an album off the back of it the wedding the wedding album uh and uh we'll make all that money back well i'm sorry they didn't go with you one of the other the one of the last things i want to say This is the first time I've seen this and you realize just how convincing AI is.

18:53I've seen so many pictures of them that look so realistic of them facing off against each other in a wedding dress. I keep thinking, is that one? Have they released one? None of them are real. There's just masses and masses and masses of AI. We know they were in Dior and it was custom Dior. But so many pictures have come out that do look incredibly convincing and they're not real it's it's becoming like compete ubiquitous yeah it's uh it's it's fascinating it's fascinating

19:24Richard Osman:you shut down new york again we you know we talk a lot about where have all the stars gone and where's the old days of show business and shutting down the middle of new york in 100 degrees heat so that's sort of very show businessy uh and having every celebrity on the planet apart from blake lively uh at your wedding that's very show busy as well a big take out is that the biggest stars in the world are massive star fuckers. I mean they are though aren't they? It's very interesting that you know celebrities flock together and they say oh and those because we sort of understand each other you think I don't know if it is I think it's because your power multiplies itself by their power.

19:56Richard Osman:Yeah. And it's like it's like people in the city who will hang up with other people in the city who have a lot of money or access to a lot of money because that multiplies itself. It's very easy to make money when you're surrounded by other people who make money and it's very easy to become more famous when you're surrounded by other people who are incredibly famous. Almost everything written about this wedding was about who was there. Yeah. And it makes everyone bigger. And the idea of people, like Spielberg having to show a QR code to get through and yes, Jay-Z, I'll have your phone off you.

20:26All of that is such a power move.

20:29Richard Osman:They were drinking Jay-Z champagne as well, weren't they? Oh, were they? Ace of Spades champagne was what they were drinking. I'm sure the brand opportunities were extraordinary. I mean, can you begin to imagine the money they're going to be making out of it over the next couple of months? Yeah. The stories we're going to hear. But everybody, people would, you know, post it. People with the ones with the beauty brands like Selena Gomez were posting, you know, putting on their own products in the car on the way there. It was a very modern event. My favorite bits was when their friends from home were there as well.

21:00Richard Osman:And the family and Mama Kelsey, who I've been very much enjoying on... Celebrity Traitors. Traitors as well. that's nice. There's something very beautiful at the heart of it. That's the nice thing. That's why we're allowed to buy into it. If you can cut your way through the stick. But as a spectacle, I would just say to everybody, everybody here who has been married, who's about to get married, who wants to be married in the future, think about sitting at the kitchen table. Think about getting to that 90 odd number of people that you think, yeah, that's, I think, that's our family. That's our close friends from home those are the people actually in the last five years who've really become important to us and the people we would love to really love to meet each other think about getting to that number and add another 910 people and just think about how that would be given by the way you if you invite steven spielberg he would probably say no so you're you're really that's a net you're really going to have to uh i would love to know who said no i would that's a document i would watch like the beatles get back nine hours worth i would watch nine hours worth of them going through the guest list for that wedding.

22:05Richard Osman:I would love that so much. I would just love to hear the no's. I'd love to hear the no's on their side and I'd love to hear the RSVPs that came back. Would you have gone if you had been invited? I know neither of us would have been invited. Don't be absolutely... Of course I would have. Of course. Like a shot. I was talking to Ingrid about this and I said, well, I don't think I would go because I don't want to. I wouldn't want to go to New York. You would want to see it? Yeah. She said, stop me. I mean, you're an idiot. Yeah. Of course you would go. I can assure you, Richard, you would be going.

22:32I'm sure Ingrid would be informing you that you are going.

22:35Richard Osman:But I just don't know how much fun it would be being a thousand person wedding with people you don't really know that well. The people watching would have been off the chain. It would have been hysterical. Absolutely hysterical. It's like the black and white ball times a hundred. You could have just laughed so much. It's just like a hilarious moment. You know what? The reason I would have gone, it would be nice to meet Greg James. So after the break, we are going to talk about, I would say very much the British Taylor Swift. Katie Price.

23:07Richard Osman:This episode is brought to you by the Lloyds 5k house deposit. Lloyds are offering a 5k house deposit which was last seen in 1996. What are your entertainment memories of the 1990s? I feel guilty talking about the 1990s because you look back and it was such a golden era. We'd never had it so good and we didn't even realise because we were young and we just thought we were entitled to it all. We absolutely took it for granted. Yeah, Britpop was absolutely in its pomp. Oasis playing to a quarter of a million people. You had Blur and Suede and Pop. Spice Girls and Girl Power, I'm so sorry. Spice Girls, amazing movies at the cinema, Trainspotting.

23:41Richard Osman:I mean, it felt a time of absolute optimism. But at the time, you just assumed that was the way that the world was going. A very British type of optimism. Yeah, but part of the optimism, of course, is that mortgages were more affordable. And that is what Lloyds is dealing with right now. Yep, last seen in 1996, Lloyds are now offering 5k deposit mortgages to first-time buyers. Search 5k first-time buyer. 1996 average first-time buyer deposits based on ONS data. Subject to status, your home may be repossessed if you don't keep up repayments. Conditions apply. Evening, buyer's remorse. Buy a new car?

24:15Richard Osman:I'll be moving in. Let's get started. Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana. You what? Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it. So there's no... No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyer's rejoice. I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it. Buyer's rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven-day return policy at Carvana.com. Let's talk about a condition many people haven't heard of. And it turns out it's more common than you'd think. Peyronie's disease, or PD for short. PD can happen when scar tissue builds up under the skin of the penis.

24:53Richard Osman:This can cause a curve or the bump during an erection and, for some men, lead to pain during intimacy and may impact mental health. It may also lead to anger and frustration, depression, lower self-esteem, and even withdrawal from sexual activity and physical intimacy. Because of this, some men could feel embarrassed or reluctant to talk about PD. The actual cause of PD isn't always known. In some cases, it may be linked to a minor injury or repeated injuries during sex or other physical activity. The good news is PD is treatable. If you notice a curve with a bump, a trusted urology specialist can help diagnose it and walk you through your options, including non-surgical treatment.

25:33Richard Osman:To learn more about Peyronie's disease, visit talkaboutpd.com.

25:44Welcome back, everybody. Now, we are talking about a new documentary that drops on Wednesday. It's called Katie Price, Nowhere to Hide. It's on Sky. It's made by Mindhouse, Louis Thru's production company, and it's directed by Paddy Wyver. She's obviously been a sort of fixture of national life. And she says it was a fun 10 years, then the second 10 years starts to get turbulent, and then the third 10 years, it's turbulent. It's an extraordinary thing. It's very, very good, I should say. Yeah, it's really good. And I think it's, we've talked a lot about subject commissioned documentaries on this podcast.

26:22And I don't know who commissioned this, but it doesn't matter because there's nothing she would have taken out. I mean, she has a sort of nuclear candor. It's extraordinary. She has nothing to hide. She has nothing, yeah. You know, it's beyond I am what I am. I mean, it's amazing. There's a shot really quite near the beginning where she's showing Paddy Weible, the documentary maker, you know, into her past. and they can't get into her garage where it's all stored because the old pink Range Rover she had, which has now got its windows sort of caved in and it was sort of overfinched. So it says pricey along the back instead of Range Rover.

26:56Its tires are down. It's just lodged in front of the garage door. So she has to sort of crawl under to get in it. Anyway, she gets into this garage and there's a load of pink fun fur and a load of other stuff. One of the boxes just says X's and surgery.

27:11Richard Osman:Yeah. And even then she says, oh, that's a big box. Yeah, it's... Okay, before we go any further, I do want to say that it is obviously, and anyone who has seen the pictures of her, has read the stories about her in the last few years, will also have this sense that it is an incredibly sad story, and it's an awful story, and that it transitioned from one thing to another, and it's a really... And I definitely think that this does not shy away from any of that. It deals kind of amazingly with her relationship with her own body, just her sense of herself as ugly. she always struggled to make friends she's friends with horses basically and then there's lots of her as as a child just being a sort of horse loving quite uh solitary child who if you listen to the family changed overnight her family are involved in this and they are absolutely brilliant every family members is incredible her mom her sister her brother are and her stepfather are absolutely amazing she then turns 14 and she just becomes this compelling sexual presence to boys and And at 16, she already knows she's going to be famous.

28:14She sort of changes, but she's been abused twice by then. And she's a great narrator of her own story because she talks about wanting to be looked at by men, being desperate to be looked at, but not touched. And so this pictorial thing, and it's interesting because she gets onto page three, basically, which is her huge, is her big break. And you get in because someone sends your pictures in and someone took her lunch break on Brighton Beach. that some pictures of her. And then they changed her name. They didn't want her to be called Kate.

28:44Richard Osman:They went through a whole list. They said, yeah, you can't be called Kate because she usually called herself Kate. And they showed the list and they had it. It's like Linda. You think it's got to be Linda because of Linda Lussardi. But it's just like all incredibly normal names. And someone just said, how about Jordan? She just went, yeah, fine. I mean, Peter Stringfellow used to do that with all the strippers, you know. He'd always say, come over here, Cherokee. Come on, come over here. And that was not, you know, everyone had to be sort of rebranded. I mean, she presents that weirdly as a sort of sliding doors moment where her personality splits into.

29:10Richard Osman:I don't quite, and we'll talk about it, I don't quite buy it. I don't think her personality does split in two. She talks quite a lot about saying there's Jordan and then there's Katie and they are different people and people don't see the real me. But a lot of what she does and how she behaves, you think, no, I think that there's quite a lot of you in Jordan and there definitely is a very gentle, because you hear about it from people who know it, there is a gentle, kind person there. But I think a lot of this persona is also you. Yes. But she says that because she is a sort of master of narrative.

29:44And for a long time, she believes she can shape the narrative about her. And it was interesting. I remember she gets on page two. And I worked at The Sun at the time. And she did something. It was so ridiculous. They had a no silicon rule on page three. If you don't remember what page three was, there was a topless woman on page three of the paper every day.

30:02Richard Osman:And nobody questioned it. And nobody questioned it. And she wanted to have a boob job. And this was right before the sort of democratization of this surgery, which we now, you know, is completely sort of democratized. But the sun sort of, I mean, I hated all these aspects of the sun. They sort of felt they were drawing a line in the sand. And, you know, readers had to be able to believe what they saw in terms of the tits they were being shown. And remember, they were so prissy in the sun that they would asterisk out the central eye of the word tit because, you know, words had to be estroids. Often when they were three inches east of a pair of the actual thing.

30:39Anyway, but they polled the readers. Should she do it? She shouldn't do it. And I remember at the time, because I worked there and I was doing picture research at the time, and people were like, she's so stupid. She's so headstrong. She's destroyed her career now because she can't appear on page three anymore because she's done this. Anyway, she ends up doing Playboy and all things like that. But actually, I think what was so interesting about her at the time Yes, she was headstrong, but she'd foreseen something that they had not seen, which is that a new type of fame was becoming available. And ownership of yourself was a possibility.

31:12Richard Osman:And she also said, I wanted them to be fake. I wanted them to look fake. I wanted that fake look. That's the thing that I wanted to do. I wasn't trying to deceive anyone. I wanted them to look fake. Yeah. Which that's a very interesting character note. But also to be told you won't work here again and to think, well, you know what? I back myself. Yeah. And she did back herself. Which she does time after time. Yeah. Occasionally for ill, but she does it. Yeah. That represents a new kind of monetization at that point in celebrity culture, which was, okay, there's the lad mags and there's an explosion of the lad mags and you can make money through those.

31:45She's always sold pap shots. I've watched the first two episodes of the documentary. I don't know if she gets into how much she sells pap shots, but she does.

31:53Richard Osman:There's a very interesting, the very first kind of thing where one of the pap says, well, she said, I was going out. This is after she'd had Harvey and they were selling photos of me and they were getting paid for it. She said, so I just thought, well, hold on, I'm going to go out anyway. And someone's getting paid for these photographs. I want to get paid. So she teamed up with one of the perhaps one of the agencies and he speaks completely freely about it. He said that she would get photographed coming in and then she'd tell me I'm coming out the back. I would photograph her. There'd always be a couple of fellas sort of holding her up.

32:22Richard Osman:She'd give me a little wink. I'd send in the photos. photos, there'd be a code on it, which is my code, so I get my money. There'd also be a code on it, which was Katie's code. And so she would get her money as well. And, you know, but she says, she said, this is why I did it. They were showing it anyway. I knew someone was making money. I thought, well, I would, I would like me to be making that money. So she took ownership of her value in a way that was actually sort of very, was radical, but it's even more than that. It's that the idea she saw herself clearly, she becomes very quickly, she sees herself as a serial drama.

32:54and the Kardashians, Keeping Up with the Kardashians only launches in 2007. I mean, it now feels like we've lived in that era for a long time, but then it's tied to PAs, to endorsements and the idea that there's a narrative momentum to your own life that people will buy into figuratively and literally, that they will buy things. And it was a sort of train wreck era of all, you know, Lindsay Lohan and Britney Spears, but she always seemed to be just about in control of her train at that time. and these books about her life, you know, her autobiographies, the sales on those is unbelievable.

33:28Richard Osman:Even the first few novels, I think she said about 12 novels now, and the sales now are not what they were, but the first few were big. The first one was 400 ,000 copies in hardback. Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, that's a lot. Obviously, she has evolved, and I mean, if we just flash forward to the present day, we had so many questions about this, and we never really answered it, because you may know that her latest escapade is that she met a guy. They got married after just a few days. They got, you know, obviously tattoos of each other. A proposal identical to a one he'd made very recently to a woman.

34:04He lives in Dubai. He's obviously, I'm sorry to say, Lee Andrews. He's a complete wrong. Has he got a Cambridge doctorate? I don't think he has. He can't leave Dubai. And people were saying, oh, he can't leave Dubai. And she was like, he can. He's coming to me. Watch him. Anyway, just when he was due to travel, He says, he rings her and says, you know, I've been kidnapped. I've been taken to a black site, which I think it's incredibly hard to tell might be connected to some fraud allegations, which he denies. I mean, he denies a whole lot of things, I think, from a hair transplant to fraud allegations to the fact that he can leave Dubai.

34:39And this is the ongoing drama. And it's incredibly hard to know what is actually happening.

34:44Richard Osman:Well, Paddy Wyvel, the director of this, who I have to say does a great job. he said in an interview he said the hardest thing about the documentary was knowing where to end it he said because i'd be in the edit for like sort of three months and i think okay okay i think i've got it now and then i'd get a call and i'd go sorry lee who yeah because it just it never ends even now she is totally compelling and um i'd sort of forgotten because there's a lot you have to look away from now she you know she's so thin she's obviously had so unbelievably many surgeries It's interesting, they talk, it's really good access all the way through that, as I say, family, when they're talking about affairs, when they're talking about the Gareth Gates and Gareth Gates is there talking about it.

35:23Richard Osman:When they want to talk about Dane Bowers, he is there talking about her as well. But they talk the guy who did her first ever breast surgery. Yeah, that surgeon, yeah. So he talks about it. He said, and this was the size of it. He said, and then she came back and wanted a bigger one. I said, and then she came back again and wanted a bigger one. I said, no, you can't. I mean, you can't. And Paddy goes, well, what happened then? And he went, well, she just went somewhere else and someone else did it for her. She is a force of nature. And there's something about girls like that that you do see slightly feel like built the country to some degree.

35:55And they should really have been twirling around with all the beds in the 2012 opening ceremony, you know? And I sort of, in a way, I don't know why you compare it to an opera diva, you know, where the life is just this extraordinary tragedy that's sublimated into something. Or picaresque, you know, picaresque novels are normally about sort of roguish men, but there's a subsection of them that are about kind of lower class women who use their wiles to make it.

36:19Richard Osman:I was thinking about exactly that. It feels like a 19th century novel. It really does. And, you know, these characters have always existed. More Flanders, right? They've always existed. And she's just molded herself to the times in which she lives. and actually she's moulded some of the times in which she lives as well. You know, she has the curse of being compelling. Lots of people had her background. Lots of people had the things that happened to her. Lots of people had her talents. Lots of people had her story. But she is so compelling to people that she is enabled at every single step of her journey.

36:47But she understands what she means. And what I find very weird about it is that she's always lent in, as we've discussed, so completely hard to whatever sells.

36:55Richard Osman:Yeah. And I think that she now sees, and this is the sort of part of the tragedy of it, she sees herself as a cautionary tale. And so she sees that the cautionary tale is the thing that sells the most. And quite hard because although this, you know, this business of commodifying yourself in the way that she has, it's quite young in the scope of human history, except in, you know, I guess some professions or whatever. But there's a point where you don't really know whether it's the dynamics of the story, where that stops and where she starts, or what she's doing because it would make a good story.

37:27and it's very difficult to think of whether just the sales or her are in the driving seat.

37:34Richard Osman:It's interesting because as you say she's brutally honest all the way through she doesn't hold back she answers every single question but her she doesn't seem to have as much self-knowledge as you would expect and I think you know by the time you get to the age of 48 perhaps you should have some of that self-knowledge. Her family seem to have a great deal of knowledge about her and kind of understand it and there it's every time something you have like Dane or Gareth and they just cut to one of the family and they were just like and then we heard about this and we're like oh no because you know they're exceptional every time yeah they really are exceptional but there's a deal with the force of nature you see that when you see that family who are so great in so many ways but you some people yes it's it's they can't never mind that nature nature will find a way yeah if that family cannot control her she's not going to be control because they are super bright.

38:24Richard Osman:But there's only one moment, funnily enough, in that first two episodes where Paddy calls her out on how she treated Gareth Gates and says, I think you humiliated him. And it's the only point where she goes, yeah, gosh, I sort of suppose I did. It's almost like everything that's being asked of her is something she's considering for the first time. She lives her life forwards. Well, she's incredibly propulsive, yes. She is a very, very propulsive person. And I mean, I can recognise elements of that, that it's better to just go forward and compartmentalize things. But one of the things you should take away from it is the idea of the audience.

38:54Because if you feel like, have a look at it if you think you've been able to look away from her for a while, because she is compelling, and the audience gaze, that's been a huge part of this. And she, as a, I mean, physically, I mean, to look at and as a story holds a mirror up to society, you know, what is fetishized and normalized and then kind of expected of women's bodies, the abuse of it, the actual abuse of it, direct criminal in some cases and indirect, and the collateral damage of it to these people around her. And then there's this sort of woman, this tiny woman kind of staggering on in the middle of it all.

39:32Richard Osman:Yeah, she seems in the middle of all of this and in the middle of this cultural force, she does seem to retain her agency, which I think makes it even more fascinating because she seems to be complicit in a lot of what happens in a way you don't often see in these documentaries i do i think it's really worth people watching and it's it it will you will make your own mind up and everyone will have different opinions i think very well done it's it's really really well done it's it's it's terrifically interesting um and if i may segue it is on sky uh on wednesday and we will finish by talking about that sky because they have just bought itv if you're wondering what that means i mean essentially it's been on the cards for a long time well we yeah we first talked about it when we knew it was significantly on the cards last year um they then they were talking about it buying it for two billion they bought it for 1.6 billion which a lot of people were saying it'll be worth about half that in a year so the price has come down um not itv studios we should say the networks arm so the free to air psb itv that's five channels and the stream at ITVX.

40:38Richard Osman:So ITV Studios are the production companies, so they haven't bought that. The people actually make programs. They bought the gubbins of the thing. So what does this mean? Well, Sky is owned by Comcast, but this is, interestingly, this is Sky's deal. It's been driven completely by Dana Strong, who runs Sky in the UK. As the whys of it, we talked about before, but, you know, Sky is too small in pay and ITV is too small in advertising and you go for scale and you share many costs. You know, cost synergies is obviously a euphemism and we'll have to get to that because I think that Sky could take about 1.6 billion in cost synergies even before you start the idea of kind of strategic business synergies.

41:14What you're seeing here is two of the three biggest advertising houses merge. So in terms of who should be most worried, we'll talk about within Sky and ITV, but Channel 4 should be most worried because how do you get protections from being on the sidelines as the smallest advertising house now? This is going to take a while to go through because the competition and markets authority who decide whether or not you've got too much share of the market or you're tending towards monopoly. As we've said, consolidation sort of has to happen.

41:45Richard Osman:Yeah, if you look at both of them, you know, Sky are very, very open. They said we have to get growth. We have to get growth and we can't get growth with our current business plan because that's not where the market is. And ITV can't get growth with where they are because that's not where the market is either. Together, there is some sort of synergy. So it makes absolute sense. In terms of what would it actually mean as a viewer, at first, very, very, very little. The ITV shows will remain on ITV. The Sky shows will remain on Sky. There's certainly going to be a discussion about why don't we put Saturday Night Live on ITV and suddenly we can get two million extra viewers.

42:17Richard Osman:But those discussions haven't been had. That's not what they're planning to do at the moment. Well, Sky wants to be the aggregator. Yeah, exactly. They want to use ITV's crown jewels so you'll have Love Island and you'll have World Cup. You'll have all sorts of things like that. But again, on a streaming platform. So the streaming platform will be Sky and ITV. So what it actually means, a couple of things it actually means, we talked before about this need for iPlayer and the other terrestrial broadcasters to team up with each other to form one thing, which would be BBC, ITV and Channel 4. That will now not happen with ITV, definitely.

42:48Richard Osman:Not with ITV. But Channel 4 and BBC One, therefore, I mean, Channel 4 have to team up with... You talked about it before, like a strategic rationale. It is now not just a good idea, it's an imperative idea. like channel 4 and the BBC have to find a way to come together yeah um you've got this sort of floating voter in the form of 5 which is owned by Paramount and obviously both sides would be saying come in with us but I don't think actually with those ads with that ad sales point that I've made earlier that that would even be possible for so the BBC and channel 4 and 5 I mean they've really got to sort of come together and they've got to do this you're just looking to try and have these destinations of scale because otherwise you're going to get swallowed up it's i have to say that i think i think by the way it's not happening at the moment because channel four is in such a weak position that it's very hard that they know that they would be eaten now whereas if they have a couple of good years a couple of big years a couple of big hits then actually i just think they have i think the bbc have to go over themselves and channel four have to go over themselves and they have to find a way to do this yeah and i don't think they should be wasting two years in my opinion yeah but but but there's ego involved right okay but the time for ego is now long past yes and they yes i agree but they'd have to find a way to give it equal prominence and do all of those things i i think within within sky itself you know sky have often sort of said i don't know i'd be worried if i worked at sky news i have to say in sky arts because those things have sort of existed.

44:17I think Comcast would have got rid of Sky News as soon as they were allowed to, after the obligation passed for them to have to keep it open. But now, you know, Sky will have a PSB, they'll have a news arm. They had things like Sky Arts and Sky News as a lost leader to be part of the ecosystem. But if you now have one via OTV, I fear that would be one of the synergies, as it were. Sky is going to ultimately be a victim of people unbundling, OK, because they just are. And they've been good at managing not to make that happen. But a lot of pressure has been on the football because the football is what they have, basically.

44:55Richard Osman:Can you explain to people what unbundling means? Unbundling means that you don't say, oh, I'm not going to have these Sky services. Say, at the moment, they've got a big issue, which is that they've still got a lot of people paying 80 quid a month for their telly. and if you say okay well I'm going to unbundle I'm not going to have I'm not going to get this all through Sky I'm going to have Freely and Netflix and Prime and HBO Max and I'm still going to be paying way less that so there's been a lot of pressure because they do have they do have the football I have to say the new government green paper is trying to list all sorts of different events and make it more difficult so you need other stuff because the football has been this kind of huge thing that has kind of kept it up they need other stuff they don't make that much content at all but i do think that those synergies mean that some of the stuff they do make is going to fall away yeah well they've got plenty of money which is good they don't have the shop window quite as much as itv whereas itv have got less money than they did but have this incredible shop window everyone involved you talk to on each side is feels fairly comfortable with it as you say i think there will you know there will be um redundancies as as certain jobs are uh are kind doubled up i would think something like sky arts would be fairly safe because itv is a psb everyone at sky is saying we absolutely it needs to stay a psb no one at sky is going no we're going to bring this entirely into the commercial thing we're going to try and get out of all of our psb obligations that doesn't seem to be what they're saying and therefore you know itv do have to do arts programming it gives you protection to be a psb so they want that they've always tried to argue for being a psb because we provide things like um sky arts and sky news but they don't actually have any of the psb obligations so they don't but they have argued to try and get into the best thing about being a psb is you're right at the front you're you know front and center when you turn your television on that's the that's the main best thing about being a psb but i would have thought sky arts is perfect you know that's a really easy thing for itv to have to put all of its arts um programming through i'm not sure about that but anyone yeah well listen we shall see yeah um but the new thing would be very very interesting as well but yeah in in terms of being a viewer I think almost nothing changes apart from what's going to happen with iPlayer and that's completely changed now because ITV are not going to go anywhere near it I think, and BBC and Channel 4 have to set up something together ASAP Get a button on the remote You can't compete with the American Streams You need a button on the remote That's something the government could do Well listen, maybe they're listening They wouldn't have got to the end they'd be like i know i was only listening for taylor swift and katie price when it got to the sky thing i was like yeah i'm i'm less interested um any recommendations i've told you my recommendations tournament football all day and all night football that's all i'll be doing and that's all i have been doing what about you if you like the idea of monopoly but hate playing it because it takes so long uh monopoly deal which is a card game you can play it's a bit like rummy that you've got to collect sets but it's it's a it's like a much quicker much more fun version of monopoly md in parlance to the kids.

47:51Richard Osman:You call it MD? MD. Oh really? Yeah. You play it too? I've played a lot. I've had to ban it being played in certain places such as restaurants. I've, yes, I urge you to impose restrictions on it if younger people are playing because it can get actually in some ways nastier. It's quite frustrating. It's quite frustrating. I don't think I've ever actually won a game. Wow, really? Okay, yeah. Likewise, probably. I've got a competitive family. And I'll also recommend, we were talking earlier about picaresque 19th century novels. I'm reading No Name by Wilkie Collins. I'll just finish No Name by Wilkie Collins, which I don't think many people talk about.

48:25Richard Osman:But it's a really, really, really, really terrific book. And by the way, any drama execs listening would make an amazing adaptation. It's got some central characters who you just think, oh my God. Oh God, I'm going to buy it when I leave. I haven't read it. No Name, it's called. Thank you for that. It's long, like all of those things. I can handle it. Yeah, but you're 100 % Katie Price would be right in the middle of that book. Right. Other than that, we are back on Thursday with a Q &A, but also, which I enjoyed very, very much, and the second part of your special bonus series on what World Cup have we got this week?

49:02We've had you as sitcoms.

49:03Richard Osman:We are doing the World Cup of British bands. So who are the best British band of all time, according to the British band. We've already recorded it. I would say this. I would say it's very interesting. I would say it's very, very interesting. John Robbins and Maisie Adam are back to talk about that. If you want to become a member, which is ad-free listening and all of our bonus content, it is therestorsentertainment.com. We'd love to have you. But for everyone else, we will continue to be free twice a week, every week. See you on Thursday. See you Thursday.

49:43Richard Osman:Hello, everyone. we've got some exciting news to share with the listeners of The Restless Entertainment. We do indeed. We are holding a summer sale so you can become a member of the club for a third off the regular price. That's right. With the code SUMMER26 you can head to therestlessentertainment.com and claim an annual membership with this brilliant discount. So if you want to spend your summer listening to us discussing celebrity drama, behind the scenes stories and industry gossip but have none of the ads and why wouldn't you? It is a no-brainer. Plus you can catch up with all of the archive of our members only shows you may have missed, including Marina's latest series of Vibe Shift.

50:15And we've got lots more of those special series planned. But remember, this deal will only run until the end of August. So don't wait around. Head to the rest is entertainment.com now.

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