What Has Gone Wrong With Star Wars?

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1:0040 ,000 steps, baby. Who's on top now, Karen? You've taken the office step challenge a step too far. Don't worry though, Sierra also has yoga gear. It might be a good place to find your zen. Discover top brands at unexpectedly low prices. Sierra, let's get moving. Hello and welcome to this edition of the Rest is Entertainment, question and answers edition. I am Marina Hyde. And I am Richard Osborne. Hi Marina. Hello Richard, how are you? Yeah, I'm really, really well. Before we start, Reeve Hamilton has been in touch. Good name for the next Bond. And Reeve said, I talked about Hasey Dixie's version of Gin and Juice, the Snoop song.

1:40And actually, he's absolutely right. It was the Gords who did the first Bluegrass version of Gin and Juice. And I just say that because it's so brilliant. Thank you, Reeve, for putting us straight there. Are you going to tell us, as Bill on Tuesday, how bands make money? The touring thing? Yeah. Yes, with regards to Oasis, we will definitely do that. We're not going to start with it. Okay. But we will definitely get on to the things that are put in place to make sure that they don't split up halfway through the tour can we start though with the series the acolyte the uh star wars series david waterman has a question david says my nine-year-old daughter recently had a small role in star wars the acolyte on disney plus and i would like to ask what do you think happened with that show it seems like there's a lot to unpack with it from the moment it was released to a few days ago when it was shut down it'd be very interesting to hear your thoughts on the whole saga well congratulations to your daughter i would say what what happened what didn't happen um i haven't seen it okay if you don't know what this is it's a sort of mystery thriller it's set about a century before the the phantom menace so yeah it's like a star wars story it has been review bombed which is something we could actually one time do a whole breakout thing on but um it was review bombed so the critics were sort of okay with it but it's got something like an 18 i mean it's in the teens audience score on rotten tomatoes and the showrunner said I want to have a non-binary actor.

2:59Amanda Lestemburg, who is lead, said she just had to put up with a rampage of vitriol, as she put it. So basically the fandom's turned on it. They should have called it Rampage of Vitriol. Yeah, I mean, that would be quite good, wouldn't it? That's quite a classic Star Wars title. But first of all, I'd say two things about this. First of all, this happens a lot within the Star Wars things, is that they've got a fandom that I think is quite toxic in lots of ways. If you look at what happened with The Last Jedi, which I thought was quite good, they absolutely went for Kelly Marie Tran. and the next movie, The Rise of Skywalker, like an utter failure, apparently written by a committee.

3:30It was absolutely awful, described by Rishi Sunak as a good night. Just want to put that out there. Anyway, that's the sidebar. His career as a movie reviewer has not taken off. Well, there's plenty of time. He's got time, hasn't he? He's about to get a lot of time in his intro. I have to say that also it was very, very expensive, this show. The Acolyte cost£22 million or something an episode. Bob Iger has said, who's the CEO of Disney, We're going to spend less money, you know, and be more selective with all the stuff they make because they spend huge amounts of money. And they've only got 150 million subscribers.

3:59They need more to be able to be spending 22 million on things like that. How much do you reckon David Waterman's daughter got? I hope she got a whole million per episode, but I fear that she might not have. Might not have done. But the thing is, Star Wars is a brand that is in decline. Let's be honest. I mean, we've got something coming up, which is called Skeleton Crew, like four young kind of people within the Star Wars universe. does that sound like a show you've seen on tv before so you know you now feel like the stranger thingsification of the star wars universe they're just trying they're following other things rather than leading their culture so what about in later life han leia luke they're all in their 70s early 80s they live together in a retirement village and solve murders oh my god why do you give all your best ideas out on air the jedi murder club i love it so much and i would you know i would watch there are a number of reasons but as we've seen people can be brought back from any form of dead so anything can be what you want it to be they are going to need to take some sort of detours but they're going to stop i think spending huge money on these series that don't really make people sign up for disney plus sometimes you get something that people think this is so important i want to know that's all they want they want you to subscribe by the end of the first week of i think um the acolyte you know frozen had been watched more yeah so they've got these great library properties which are brilliant and obviously frozen was a massive film but unless it's a real banker and it's just going to keep delivering for you why are you going to do this so i think there were lots of things but clearly the fandom and the attack on it didn't help and it's interesting like we spoke about um apple movies the other day it is that thing of they're spending an awful lot of money and the return is is sort of not coming so they have to spend less money on these things.

5:42Winter's coming. But I look forward to seeing David's daughter in other things. Yes, absolutely. Because this needn't be the end. Yeah, and it won't be. Yeah, this could just be a footnote. Oh, this is a must for you, Richard. It concerns Total Wipeout. Ah, okay. Listen, clear the decks. Clear the decks. Matt, Durham or Matt Durham? He doesn't say, but what he does say is that he's recently discovered a channel which only shows episodes of Total Wipeout. Yeah. Richard as you worked on Total Wipeout what was the reason for filming in Argentina? Total Wipeout that was a lot of fun making Total Wipeout I always say you never know if you're going to have a hit but you always know if you've had fun and that was one of those lovely ones where we had a lot of fun and then it was a big hit as well It would be so sad if you'd said no it's absolutely awful to record because it's such a funny show in so many ways So it was filmed out in Argentina just outside Buenos Aires and mostly they would go out and we would just sit and write the commentary.

6:39I used to write the commentary with the Dawson brothers. There's three of them and only two of them are brothers. But we would sit and give everybody nicknames and just write the commentary for Richard Hammond. Then we'd film in front of a green screen. Anyways, it was a huge amount of fun. We laughed an awful lot, which I hope came across when you watch it. And if people haven't watched it, it's an enormous obstacle course, essentially, you know, with mad things happening and stuff. In which the most iconic obstacle are the big Red Bulls. The giant Red Bulls, yeah, exactly, which is easy to fall off.

7:07But when we did the celebrity one, we actually got to go out there. So we spent some time in Buenos Aires. I love Buenos Aires. It's amazing. Yes, it is amazing. It is amazing. And so, yeah, I just remember sitting on some kind of deck chairs on a huge camera platform, just watching the red balls as people went across it. Why did we do in Argentina is a very good question. Now, the urban myth was always because they didn't have health and safety laws in Argentina. Newsflash, they do have those. And even if they didn't, we would still be bound by British health and safety laws because we're a British company.

7:38And the reason we did it in Argentina, one of the joys of Total Wipeout is the size of that set and how extraordinary it is. And essentially, it had been a hit in the States, Total Wipeout, where it was just called Wipeout because we had a Paul Daniels quiz called Wipeout over here. So ours was called Total Wipeout. It was a big hit. So all the other endermol companies of which we were the UK arm wanted to do their own version. probably we could have just about afforded to do it in the uk but certainly most other territories couldn't have afforded to build that set so the decision was made centrally to build one set we built it in argentina because we had a big company out there we had a big infrastructure out there so we built it out in argentina and all the countries in the world would come and book in like a timeshare would book in their two weeks to film their series of total wipeouts so you do it and as you were packing up the belgians would be coming in and then the south africans would be coming in.

8:30So it was that, essentially, it was just so you only had to build one set. So it became... Also, can you imagine doing it like Milton Keynes or something which was just raining the whole time and you just... No. Yeah, it would be less fun, yes. You need... Everyone's going to get wet, obviously. I'm aware of the format. Yeah, for sure. But just doing it in the driving rain would have been slightly too British, perhaps. Would have been less good. And it's that economic thing of people saying, yeah, but you've got to fly everyone out there. And, you know, the economics of TV are such that the cost of flying 50 people somewhere is so much less than the cost of building an enormous set.

9:03And so actually it made an awful lot of sense. And these were in the days before we worried too much about carbon offsetting. So we didn't really think about the idea of flying thousands of Europeans out to Argentina. We just thought, yeah, because that's the cheapest way to make the TV show. I have to say that even though we didn't go there for health and safety reasons it was sometimes it was laxer than it might have been one day we turned up and every single bit of camera equipment had been stolen every single bit we turned up about 8 a.m every and the the argentina uh the fixer who was our sort of middle person out there said oh everything's been stolen so we can't we go oh okay um probably need to we need to hire some more stuff i'm with sort of insured he goes i'm not not sure we are insured i'm like oh okay that's interesting um But is there somewhere else we can hire?

9:51One of the reasons you go to Buenos Aires is it's a thriving economy and there's lots of post-production and stuff. He goes, oh, yeah, yeah, we can do that. And we go, so listen, we cancel for today and can we get everything for tomorrow? He said, oh, no, we can get it all within an hour or so. Then within an hour, all of this equipment turned up and it was apparent it was all the original equipment. That's interesting. This was just around the corner and sort of in the same boxes that the original equipment was in. Anyway, so stuff like that would happen on that show. but then on the other hand you'd also they'd be digging a big pit it'd be like 8 a.m and there'd be members of the crew digging a pit you go why are they digging a pit they go oh because we're having a barbecue after and they would literally just lay planks across this pit and get like a whole cow yeah and they were just the whole day they were kind of they were cooking this this thing and at the end of the day you're like oh my god all day you can smell barbecue and the end of the day you'd have a lovely barbecue and lovely uh red wine so it was it was a lovely place to film We filmed it there purely for financial reasons, that you build one incredible set with a great crew and everyone can go film there.

10:50But it's kind of fun that people think it was because there's no health and safety in Argentina. Thank you, Matt from Durham. I have a question for you, Marina, from Fred King. How do CBeebies get such an array of celebrities to read bedtime stories? It can't be money, can it? And do the celebrities get to pick the book? They do get to pick the book. It's been going since 2016, CBeebies Bedtime Stories. but that whole bedtime hour is so sorry I'm just gonna do a little breakout on the bedtime hour which is absolutely amazing and when I had three children under three and a half you got everybody bath or whatever that bedtime hour was such a godsend you sat there and you watch these absolutely beautiful shows like I don't know Abney and Teal or the Night Garden or whatever they were and you thought like I am parenting but really the third parent the television is doing all of this and this is really nice and it's so magical it's such it means such a lot to parents anyhow they originally intended this as a sort of sort of a version of jackanory but mr tumble the legendary justin fletcher who is incredible has done the most episodes of it i was i was in a lifting holiday in manchester with him the other day wow yeah well now you've got my attention yeah we had a little yeah we had a little chat little showbiz chat uh he was charm of course his manager was there meet your heroes meet your heroes in the case of mr tumble thank you kay benbo who is the cbeebs controller said that how it originally started how tom hardy got onto it oh yes so tom hardy was one of the big names there's been some really big names reese witherspoon's done it kate winslet's done it harry styles has done it dolly parton's yeah i mean yeah well she as we know is all about outreach and books but elton john's done it dave groll's done it no even billy eilish has done it as part of one of our press billy eilish has done it yeah it's part of the press tour what they do if you're doing some of these promotional things they make it as part of your day so you might say okay you're going to do a day at the bbcc we'll do the radio one bretford show and then you might do some social social media videos the channel then then you record bedtime stories and you can choose the book and it doesn't normally take that long to record i mean i feel i would be one take on quite a lot of books hi i'm richard osmond and this is the spy who came in from the cold by john le carrie chapter one i mean i would have taken that you could have just babysat them the whole night that way so you come in and you do it but it's become a thing and so many people want to do it.

13:04And it is one of the very magical things. I have to say, I think, you know, one of the myriad things that only the BBC can do. And it's amazing. There's always a flywheel effect. Tom Hardy wanting to do it brought so many others in. So you always get these things where, first of all, someone comes in and then suddenly people say, I want to do it, I want to contribute. And everyone, and it becomes almost like a stop on the tour. And if you've got kids to be able to say that you've done it, often they can't see any of your films for obvious reasons. But they can see you reading a story. But they can definitely see your bedtime story.

13:34So it's very popular. And it's one of those things that only exists on the BBC. And it was a big, big part of my early parenting years. But they're not getting paid big money. They're doing it for their love. No, doing it for their love. If they asked you, which they should, and because you owe them, what book would you do? I think I'd have to do, like, you know when you're reading those children's books and you're all the time thinking, but what is actually happening here? I mean, clearly the one thing that hasn't happened is that a tiger has not come to tea. what is this actually about you know what is it why is the father allowed to rescue the end of the story and take them out to the cafe and her nighty all this sort of stuff i wouldn't do the tiger came to tea even though i absolutely love it i wouldn't given what you just said oh i absolutely love it yeah but you can't you can't go yeah now it's interesting here kids sorry just one second that it isn't actually about a tiger it's actually about uh the patriarchy but you're no but you're thinking about it the whole time and you know the story of you know that that her family were um fleeing the nazis and you know all these sort of stories so you're always wondering what actually is happening here i think i would do they're not they're not great when you mention the nazis it sounds like you would as a parent i'm always thinking because you know the story as a parent i'm always thinking about the nazis okay well i would do good night moon by margaret wise brown because i have read that book probably like people always say you know what's your favorite book or you've read most times like let me let's be honest i've read good night moon about 1500 times I'm no clearer as to what is actually happening like clearly night is starting I don't know but it's very surreal in lots of different ways and if you read lots of other books by Margaret Weisbrown oh my god she was an amazing person and she wrote lots and lots of children's books she was American and her story is fascinating she sounds like an owl yeah Margaret Weisbrown well she is a wise owl but her story is sort of fascinating and like lots of these people tragic in parts and I love the books she wrote for children and they are odd and in some ways surreal and then in some cases less so but I would do Good Night Moon because I'm always thinking what is actually really happening here?

15:30What would you do? I'd probably do one of Frank Lampard's Magic Frankie books. No, honestly, if they asked me, I'd be delighted to do it, but I would spend longer thinking about that than I would think about Desert Island Discs. I would literally be thinking. Oh, it still meant me. But also, they've done a lot of books, haven't they? They have done. I think you could probably get a niche one. But I think my friend Nadia Shireen's Barbara Throws a Wobbler, which is a great book. I would do that by Think. I think I read recently that somebody did it. Someone like, you know, brilliant like Carrie Mulligan would have bagged it.

15:59Someone would just go in and say, I'm doing the wobbler. Yeah, Schwarzenegger did it, I think. On that bombshell, should we go to a break? We must. Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? But with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers, a network of 130 million of them, in fact. You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company, seniority, skills, and did I say job title? See how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. Spend$250 on your first campaign and get a free$250 credit for the next one.

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18:11Welcome back, everybody. Okay, now James Primrose would like to know, in light of Oasis reforming and the big money coming their way for the reunion shows, how does it work in terms of ticket sales? Do they receive the money straight away or after the gigs? Would they still be paid if they had to pull out last minute for an emergency slash illness? For an emergency. Slash bust up. Slash bust up. Yes, it's a question lots of people are asking in relation to the Oasis talk, because no one's entirely convinced they're going to make it through the whole lot. the short answer is if you sign up to do a big tour you'll get some money up front so you'll get like a signing on fee from whoever your booking agents are but it won't be an enormous amount and the money for the actual gig is paid almost immediately afterwards so almost on the night like a comic doing a gig being you know handed the money in cash the money goes straight into the uh the band's account not before then but certainly after then so the moment that's done however you would tend as the band not to get that money because bands will have a touring company and the money goes into the touring company accounts.

19:13And at the end of the whole tour, you start to work out how much you spent on the tour, you know, you work out what your profit is, all that kind of stuff. And at the end of that is when you would get your money. So it gets paid almost immediately, but you don't get it immediately. Although if you're Taylor Swift and you want to take a couple of million out of the touring company at any point, then of course you can do. No one's going to stop you because there's plenty in there. And with the Oasis tour, that would only be exacerbated by the fact that you know there might be an opportunity where they might cancel shows.

19:41And so you don't know exactly how much money is definitely going to come in because you do only get the money if you actually play the gig, if you don't play the gig. Are you saying they're not troopers? Listen, they are troopers, but they're troopers who like to fight each other. Yeah. Okay, that's what I say. And listen, we can all be troopers, but if we don't like the other troopers, then we're not doing the troopers gig. So they would get a little bit of money up front. The money for every single gig, every time they play one, goes into a touring account which will then you know grow and grow and grow and at the end of the whole process the money gets paid out but they're certainly not getting paid all the money for all the gigs straight away there is also a bonus if you get 95 to 100 percent um if you fill a venue there are bonuses that get paid as well so that money um it becomes important certain acts can get a lot more money up front taylor swift can get a lot more money up front if you're if you're Dave Grohl and everybody loves you and you're absolutely and you really are a trooper you can get a load of money up front the Oasis ones they will not be getting as much money up front as other groups just because of the reputation but the money will all come in it'll come in quickly and it'll get apportioned out but yeah they they are they're savvy to it they're not going to give Oasis all of the money up front and Oasis I suspect know the reason why he knows why come on Come on, Noel, you know why, mate.

21:00A question for you, Marina, Peter Ormerod. Can you please explain the process behind audio description for television and films? It fascinates me. I'd love to know more about how the scripts are written. I imagine different approaches are adopted for different genres, but it must be hard to write with such clarity and brevity without being utterly banal. This is really interesting and audio description if you don't know and if you've never clicked it on it's a narration track for blind and visually impaired people and it tells you what's going on on the screen and obviously you can hear what's going on in the screen so it needs to be sort of fitted between the dialogue and the sound effect.

21:33So it'll be a man opens a door. Yeah, there's a lot of issues which we'll come back to in a minute about whether you name that man or what have you. It's not just for TV. Obviously, museums do it now, galleries do it now. It actually came out of the theatres. I think the first thing that was ever audio described was Live, which is a film in like 1929 in New York. Bulldog Drummond was a sort of detective story, series of detective stories. And somebody stood and did the audio description next to the stage. but it became it came on sort of public tv in the u.s in the 1980s and it's now sort of been rolled out but i spoke to people who write the scripts for this and also to actors who record them so there are certain conventions that you wait to refer to a character by name until that person has been named in the script because that's what the because a writer sending someone into the room doesn't want you to know who they are until the moment they tell you who they are sure right Right, but then some people say, well, there's lots of discussion within the community.

22:34People saying, well, hang on, am I just going to say the tall man all the way through or, you know, the short woman? If unless her name is, and their identity needs to be revealed and is crucial to the plot, then people feel that there are certain things that you have to say first before it's named in the script, because otherwise it just sounds so clunky. That's like, you know what, it's exactly that when you write a book. If a character is like serving someone in a restaurant and you call them a server, and then suddenly their part is much longer and you still call them the server. And they think, you know what, I'm going to go back to the beginning and say a server called Adrian.

23:04Yeah. And then you can say, says Adrian, instead of says the tool server. Exactly. Now, by the way, this is a funny thing. Pornhub even now do it for some videos. They have audio porn described videos. This is part of their philanthropic arm. I know. Their philanthropic arm? Is that merchandising? I know. I genuinely think it's called Pornhub Cares. Sorry, correct me if I'm wrong, Pornhub. Actually, don't get in touch. But anyway, and they actually do college scholarships and things like that, but they do do some audio description porn. Talking to people who write these scripts, it is so hard.

23:39You've got such a little bit of interstitial silence, and you don't want to talk over exciting bits and whatever. And if you've got lots of things happening at once, that's what they say is the real nightmare. You're thinking, what do I do first? If you listen to them, the language is, you know it's a real economy of language they think it's always best to put people first because the story is always happening to somebody and even if there's various people it's infecting them you have some neutrality you may not use judgments in these scripts but things like facial expressions and unspoken cues they always try and find ways of getting those in because you know look skeptical or whatever it is because otherwise you can really miss everything from those so so So many actors, instead of doing a line, it's all in their eyes.

24:22It's all in their expression. So if you don't hear, he looks sceptical, you're missing. And often those unspoken things are part of scripted economy anyway because you want to be able to get through things quickly. So they have tiny little bits to fit them in. Actors and actresses who read them always say that they really try and match the tone and style with their voice. Right, yeah. And you just have to try and not overwhelm the show. But like a lot of jobs, they are all fearing that it's going to go over to AI. And so people who do this, who are really skilled at writing these things, fear it.

24:54I don't know whether that's the case because there needs to be a great sort of humanity to think how I'm going to describe in very short order the most important things that are happening on these screens. But maybe this is something that's vulnerable to AI. But it's such a valuable thing. And as I say, it's being rolled out into all different arenas all the time. And you can get it in galleries and theaters, obviously, and lots of other places. And the people who do it are extremely skilled. It's one of those things where when you have it switched on, you're really aware in real time of quite how skilled they are and quite how brilliant they're being.

25:24My absolute favourite thing is the BBC gets maybe 10, 20, 30 complaints a day from people who don't realise they've accidentally switched on audio description. And they're going, yeah, I was watching Casualty. And, you know, a voice says, we pan up outside a big hospital. An ambulance pulls up. Yeah, I can see an ambulance has pulled up. I am not an idiot, BBC. And you think, well, you are. But honestly, every single day, they get people just saying, why is this man just telling me what's happening on screen when I can see it? And you think, you've turned your audio description on, my friend. Poor BBC.

25:57Ring in, would you like me to show you how to turn it off? Yeah, but I think a lot of fun for the complaints people who have to reply to those people and just say, do you know what? That one's on you. This is a good one on celebrity travel shows from Lloyd Marshall. Now, celebrity travel shows like Travel Man with Joe Lycett, are they really filmed over a weekend if not it just seems quite a lot to expect us mere mortals to rush all over a city in two days they do not uh do it over a weekend i asked the man himself i asked joe lysett about this and he says they do it over four days and he said the worst thing is he has to wear the same clothes the whole time because in the edit because when you're actually filming there's certain places where you can get to you know you go to a museum before it opens or you go to do a particular activity and you know you have to book in at a certain time but in the edit you want to make it look like you had a slightly different day so he has to wear the same clothes for the whole four days um they'll film across those days as and when they can in the places that they can and they edit together to make it look like a weekend they're definitely doing all the things and they're doable in a weekend though oh because it's just the film takes ages 100 going to a museum for an hour in real life takes you an hour yeah going to a museum for an hour when you're filming takes seven hours for lots and lots of boring reasons.

27:09And so, yeah, they simply couldn't do it over a weekend. But they spend all that time together. You know, they are actually going to those places. And as you say, they are doing an itinerary, which you definitely could do in a weekend and which it would be fun to do in a weekend. But I'm going to notice now that they're always wearing the same clothes because I hadn't spotted that. Do they not buy them four of everything? Surely. They should. Joe, come on, man. Do they not buy you four of everything? See, this is why you need Marina as an agent. I'm an animal. and I will get you four of everything.

27:35She is promising you, Joe, four of everything. We need to talk at another point about what an amazing career Joe Lycett has had and what a joy he is right in the middle of our culture and the extraordinary things he does and the extraordinary stunts and that big Channel 4 show. I really remember him as a very, very young comic coming up and all comics when they're coming up, they're funny but you never know where they're going to go. And I think where he has gone is probably more interesting than anyone else in his generation. And you never quite know where it will be next which is his complete he's a sort of category of one yeah you really really don't the only bad thing I can say about him is the travel weekend con which apparently they film over four days yeah and he says it's in a weekend so he is a liar yeah no but thank you Joe for giving us that information and thank you for the question but yeah I think he is he is a whole heap of good news yeah I think that about wraps it up doesn't it well I would like to say that next week a certain somebody's got a book out and we are going to talk all about We Solve Murders what happens to you in a week of publication, Richard, because it's a big day in your calendar.

28:37To be fair to me, we are going to talk, but we're going to talk about publication weeks in general because it's not just my book that's out next Tuesday. There's also a book by a certain friend of the podcast. My space queen, Lauren Sanchez, has a children's book, the always fascinating children's book market, Richard. We're going to talk a little bit about her too. Now, talking of We Solve Murders, you and I are doing an event together at the Cheltenham Festival. I'm really excited about this. It's the only time I have not been scared to interview someone. To coincide with the publication of your new book, We Solve Murders, I will be interviewing you on stage.

29:09And tickets go on sale today. October the 6th at 12.15 is the actual event, but tickets on sale today. Yes, it's going to be fun, isn't it? Please come by and see us because we will have a laugh. I think we will definitely have a laugh. Might even talk about the podcast, you never know. I might get you to do your three favourite Richard Osmond books, but not in order. I'll obviously have a top three meltdown during the thing if you want to see one live. Live. literally leave the stage live top three meltdown we'll see you next Tuesday see you next Tuesday