Who is Banksy?

0:02Hello and welcome to this edition of the Rest is Entertainment Questions and Answers edition. Beautiful. I'm Richard Osman. And I'm Marina Haidt. What are we talking about today, Marina? All sorts of fun things. Shall we just go straight into a question? Let's go straight into a question. Is that crazy? James Geyer has a question. My question regards Banksy and the extent to which the media and police keep his identity hidden. There must be dozens of people who know his identity but don't reveal it. And surely he's been reported to police by concerned neighbours regarding potential graffiti over the years.

0:31Does his agent pay to maintain the secrecy? Oh, right. Okay, James. Well, they definitely don't pay to maintain secrecy. And I don't actually think it is much of a secret. You could Google it pretty quickly. I think the Daily Mail has run stories about the same story about it over many, many years now as to who it is. I think in lots of... But don't Google it if you don't want to know. Yes, exactly. It's a little bit like, you know, do you actually want to know who wins Traders before it airs? Not really. Lots of people don't want to know. They like the idea. And I guess they respect the idea that he doesn't want to be known as an artist in that way.

1:03and I suppose the form of art that he uses stenciling helps him get away quickly. Yes. So I don't think he hangs around for a huge amount of time. Yeah, he's not sitting by a canal with watercolours. Slowly, yeah. Yes, and he's put some new ones up around London. The Girl with the Balloon was voted Britain's most popular artwork. Did you know that? Was it? Well, the one that went through the shredder for 18 million. I like that. You're not a fan. Look at your face. I think he is a brilliant propagandist. To me, its meaning is immediately revealed to you. Yes. To the point of perhaps being trite or glib at times.

1:38I mean, surely. It's so obvious. It doesn't require any thought. But maybe that's the point. Well, yes, I'm a big fan of Banksy. And you're right. I think on the immediacy of the works, you're not looking at 15 different layers. But the career path is extraordinary as a piece of art. I think the fact that the art is public or is often public and sort of can go viral, that's part of the point. the fact that he has kept his identity secret I think is an extraordinary part of the point I think the whole thing is a piece of performance art and every single stensor it's almost like one big canvas and every stensor is like a tiny bit of it so I like him, I think he's incredibly talented but to speak to James' question yes, you can find out who he is but he's been pretty well kept under wraps I suspect they put out some SEO stuff that kind of puts out other names there, the guy from massive attack as always mentioned he's possibly um banksy and isn't so lots of other names are out there but yeah there's one particular name if you want to go online spoil it for yourself you absolutely can do but uh yeah i i think um i mean it's a bit of fun isn't it when banksy turns up in your town it's a sort of populist form of art it's for everybody it works really well and it works well in media which is why it's so shared so it's kept pace with i guess changing media Yeah, I think he's sort of a warhol for our times, which is he's making a comment on what art is.

2:58He's making a comment on what celebrity is. He's making a comment on what we value. And I think fair play to him. I wonder, I assume, with things like the 18 million print that he sold. I don't know if that belonged to someone else. I think he was involved in it, wasn't he? Because obviously they had to put it in the shredder. So he's making good money as well. And it's easier to hide if you've got a bit of cash behind you. And at some point, presumably the opportunity of a big reveal. Yeah, I guess if it becomes part of the canvas, as you say. But you can only do it once, and I'm not so sure.

3:27I would have thought it would be better to try and stay under the radar as much as he is under the radar. But I know that the person who it is, or let's assume that it is, even his parents have gone, no, no, we don't have a son with that name. So he obviously has a group of people around him who are part of the whole story, part of the gang. And I do genuinely think, over the amount of years he's been going, that's pretty impressive undertaking. Because you could go on this morning and just say, look, it's me. Here's me with him. Here's me doing some of the things with him. You know, it'd be very easy to break that spell.

4:01And amazing that no one has broken that spell in today's culture. It's part of the fascination because actually there are so few people in the modern era who think that silence is an intriguing statement and not being a celebrity. And very, very few people say nothing at all. And he's one of those. And I think that for that reason, it burnishes the allure. It's like doing a whole series of The Masked Singer, but no one ever takes their heads off. That's a show I might pitch. And just so for everyone, I bet that was former Home Secretary Alan Johnson, but we'll never know. Here is one for you, Richard, from Sam Donaldson about ghostwriters.

4:37How are ghostwriters chosen? I envision a panel of them meeting speed dating style with the celebrity author, but maybe the writer is chosen by the publisher. It can be a bit of both, actually, is the truth. So we're talking about ghostwriters for people's autobiographies. There's a separate thing, which is ghostwritten fiction, which we'll get onto at the end. But the very much, you know, the more visible one is, you know, if a rugby player or a motorist like this writes an autobiography, they write it with someone that is a ghostwriter. And it can happen a variety of ways. Often the celebrity, when they pitch the book, will have a ghostwriter attached already, a friend of theirs, or, you know, you have a whole life in sport or politics or music or anything.

5:15and by and large you've been interviewed a number of times by a lot of different journalists and there'll be a couple that you get on with or who's writing you like and so you will say to them, will you come in with me to the publishers? Will you help me not to get their proposal? And you said it with a ghostwriter attached. That's very, very common only because most people with autobiographies work in worlds where they come across journalists a lot. If that is not the case, and often isn't, if there's, you know, say after the Olympics, say someone wants to write Keely Hodgson's biography and Keely Hodgkinson doesn't have a journalist attached but just a publisher that says to her we'll give you£200 ,000, do your biography, are you interested?

5:52to which of course she would probably say I'm much too young but if she wants a bit of cash you'll say yeah I'll do it and on that situation then publishers will go to agents and say this is who we've got, that's Keely Hodgkinson who have you got on your roster who can write this thing and most agents have got good ghost writers a great guy called Boris Starling who writes a lot of the rugby autobiographies including Sam Warburton's one you've got people like this who are just sensationally great writers and you know you team them up with someone great and on that instance the writers will all come in to meet Keely Hodgkinson by the way I'm absolutely taking Keely Hodgkinson's name in vain but you know what I mean I'm just saying if it's they'll come in to meet and try and have a you know chemistry with that person And if you do, if they meet and they get on with each other, then boom, contracts are signed.

6:43And they'll sit and interview that person over a series of days, a series of weeks. And then you can do quite a fast turnaround thing with ghostwriters. So often it'll be a favorite journalist of the person. And there's very good money to be made in these things, especially ones that are not kind of, that people haven't pretended they've written themselves. You know, usually in biographies, we know that someone's helped us in the Prince Harry biography and stuff like that. We know. J.R. Maringer. And they were chosen. And he was chosen because his Agassi book, Andre Agassi book, is amazing. And you wouldn't think like, I mean, Agassi was a great tennis player and he was a showman and all sorts of things.

7:17But the biography, the autobiography is absolutely brilliant. Now, Agassi actually said, realized how good it was and said, mate, your name should be on the cover too. Oh, did he? Yeah. And he said, no, no, no, I'm here for, I'm hard for this reason. but the greatest ghost writers and clearly what happened with Meringer who gave some interviews after having done the spare which became the fastest selling book of all time or whatever it was said he really pushed Prince Harry to say more and more about certain things and often the really sensational stuff or the very raw stuff comes right at the end it's not like you've talked through their life and you go back to things and right at the end when you've built up a long time of talking to someone maybe in their house over many, many hours, over some months, they come back and they say, there's a sort of dump of all the really intense personal stuff that's going to be the bit that is in all the headlines and is filleted out of the serialisations and then everybody talks about.

8:13And again, that's the skill of a ghostwriter. So the ghostwriter isn't you sit and listen to, you know, someone tell you their life story and then I move to Knott's Forest and write it all down in order. It's someone who can really, really get inside someone's personality and can ask interesting questions and can get all the biographical stuff and get all the stuff in order, but then starts going much deeper about why are they a sports person? You know, what does ambition mean to them? You know, what do they regret? What does regret mean? All of that really interesting stuff. And that's what a great ghostwriter does.

8:41They're not just a great writer, they're a great interviewer. And so if you get the right ghostwriter and the right celebrity, you've got yourself a huge hit. So that, by and large, is what happens. They either come with them or there is, as Sam says, sort of a speed dating session. It's absolutely right. That's exactly what happens. Now, there's a different world, which is ghostwriting in fiction. I saw that lovely stat the other day that Katie Price's first novel came out. It outsold the entire Booker Prize long list for that year. And she will be the first to say that someone wrote that for her.

9:14And it happens a lot with them. I think she frequently said she hadn't read any of her autobiographies. Yes. So sometimes in fiction, if they've got somebody who they want to write a book, they will go to agents, but in a much quieter way. we've talked about this celebrity authors who aren't even authors and by the way almost all of them are so you know your Bob Mortimer's and Ruth Jones's and the people you would imagine write their own books do write their own books once again you've set us a detective game Richard because there are some out there who do absolutely none of it yeah and by the way and some of them admit to it as well so there's a small Venn diagram in the middle of people who don't write it themselves but don't admit to it but listen those books are not selling huge amounts so we needn't worry too much about it yeah so in that world if you do get teamed up with a you know a celebrity and you've got to write a rom-com that's a super quick turnaround you know you'll say to the agent here's the name here's the vibe of what you want to do because this is what they're known for you have a month and here's the money do you have someone who will do this for you and you know if you've got a month spare and you're good at writing rom-coms or you're good at writing something else then off you go and do it ghost writing i always think sounds a bit dodgy but by and large it's the opposite by and large it's in in that non-fiction world it's absolutely above board you get people who are unbelievably brilliant at it it's very well paid if you do it at the right time for the right people then you get a proper back end so it's an incredibly noble uh profession the profession of ghostwriting particularly in non-fiction and it's not a dirty secret in the world of publishing it's absolutely up front and center we haven't done a top three for a while so let's do a quick one of those uh before the break jimmy king great name that's a great character name in a book i I love that, Jimmy, if you don't mind.

10:52Jimmy King says, what are your top three films with the word three in the title? Not including, this is good, Jimmy knows his business, but not including films that are the third of a trilogy. So no, Aliens 3, Godfather Part 3, Iron Man 3, etc. Well, the latter two would certainly never have been included. Iron Man 3? No. I love Iron Man 3 so much. I know you do. I know you do. With my pal Sir Ben Kingsley. Right, I'm going to do a top three. Okay. I'm going to do a top three. It's happening. This is confusing though because it's also got Three Amigos by the way is a great shout Jimmy King and that is in at number three So Jimmy gives us his three and three Amigos and then you're also I'm putting in at number three Three Amigos because I have to Number three Three Amigos Now number two I am doing this is controversial there's three the Three Colours trilogy Christoph Kieslowski Yes First name and first time on the podcast So that's three colours blue three colours white three colours red Yes And talk us through, because that's the very definition of art house.

11:52I only remember them from thinking, if ever I need to refer to a film that sounds like an art house film, I'll do the Three Colours trilogy. Just do the Three Colours trilogy. Yeah, okay. So Juliette Binaj, Julie Delpy, Irene Jacob. Watch them. They are amazing. They're amazing. What happens in them? Helicopter chases? Yeah, a lot of helicopter chases. Anyway, they're brilliant. So that's number two. And at number one, and again, this might be controversial because it's not literally the word three. Oh, my God. But this should be in all top threes of everything, really. The Third Man. The Third Man, one of the greatest movies of all time.

12:23I really recently watched it all over again because someone told me something which actually didn't turn out to be accurate, saying that the light went... When you first see Harry Lyme, that you see the light go on and then you also see it turned on again in the window. And I wanted to see if that actually happened because it was a little bit of sleight of hand of filmmaking, but it doesn't happen. But it is the most... That's a tiny little detail. But it is the most wonderful film. And if you haven't seen it, I strongly urge you to watch The Third Man. but your number one of films with the word three in the title yeah it's the third man you're going to give me that we're going to a break we're going to a break now Tron Ares has arrived I would like you to meet Ares the ultimate AI soldier he is biblically strong and supremely intelligent you think you're in control of this you're not on October 10th my world is coming to destroy yours but I can help you The war for our world begins in IMAX.

13:19Tron Aries, rated PG-13. May be inappropriate for children under 13. Only in theatres October 10th. Get tickets now.

13:30Welcome back, everybody. Welcome back, everyone. We haven't stopped rowing about third and three. But we're going to pour soothing oil on this now with a question about Hey Doggy, Richard. Grace Coe says, Like many toddler parents, I have watched countless episodes of Hey Dougie. Me too. I always end up wondering about the actors that voice the children. There are hundreds of episodes of Dougie, and the voice acting from these children is really good. When children are voicing characters on these shows, do they have to record lots in one go before their voices deepen? It's a terrific question.

14:01I know all about Peppa Pig, and I assume it's very similar to Hey Dougie. So forgive me, Grace, for having different skill set. Xander is in all of them. Yeah, every single time. His entire life is having to record things for people as Daddy Dog. He's always like, I'm Daddy Dog. It's your birthday. Just like absolutely nonstop. So for Peppa Pig, I can tell you, they do record lots and lots of episodes in one go. I'm going to shock you as well, Grace. They do get replaced as well. I'm so sorry to break that to you. But, you know, that's show business. That's the way it works. They do record a lot of episodes all in one go.

14:42They absolutely do that. and by and large those shows also they they would record in isolation so they'd be absolutely different labor laws and timing laws for for children so they would go in have a lot of fun really really enjoy themselves and record a lot in one go uh they do have to replace those voices after a period of time of course because children's voices change uh there's been i think there's over 200 episodes been running since 2004 and there have been four actresses who played pepper in that time the first of whom is now sort of in her mid-20s which was Lily Snowden Fine who's the daughter of the original animators and then there was Cecily Bloom who was 17 years old and did it for only one season then Harley Bird, she did the role for 13 years 185 episodes from the age of 5 she became the youngest person ever to win a BAFTA Harley Bird and Amelie B.

15:34Smith joined in 2020 she was 9 years old and now currently plays the pig so I'm going to assume that the same is the same in Hey Dougie. And Bluey, the voices of Bluey and Bingo, they're kept absolutely secret. They're voiced by children of their friends and production crew. So that's a rotating cast of children. Yeah, those things, they're incredible industries, all of them. But yeah, everyone recalls in isolation. So if you're like a comic or a voice actor, that's a lovely gig. But yeah, for the kids, there's a bit more churn. Here is one for you, Marina. Simon Marshall asks, why has the UK regained its status as a movie shoot venue?

16:12What promoted it to change? This is a very good question because it is now massive. I think the statistic is that last year films produced in the UK was 22.5 % of the whole global box office. It's a combination of lots of things. We have amazing facilities here now, but how did we really get them? Back in the old days, people like Stanley Kubrick came and based themselves in the 60s in the UK, Americans, and Richard Lester, other people like that. They thought it was a great place to make movies. And then by the time you get to the 70s, you know, Superman was made at Pinewood, Star Wars was at Elstree.

16:45And we had this real special effects expertise, which was sort of counterintuitive in a way. Whenever we used to film Pointless at Elstree, we were always in the same studio where they had the moon of Endor and Ewoks had been flying around the studio. So we always loved that. And then Robin Asquith came on and said, yeah, we also did Confessions of a Window Cleaner here. It's like, wow, we've seen it all. Well, so we had all that. But then in the 70s, American money basically withdrew because they started creating their own tax credit scheme in their country. And 80s was a real slump, which isn't to say that we didn't have great films made in this country in the 80s, things like My Beautiful Laundrette or With Nail or Merchant Ivory things.

17:22but in the 1990s basically with new labour government support returns and they start doing tax relief but one of the biggest things that really happened was that jk rowling said if you're going to make films of the harry potter they must be made here in the uk and as a result there was nine solid years they they did it at leaveston which i work a lot at and it used to be an aerodrome in a rolls-royce factory the studios were there for nine solid years thousands of British people, amazing crews and craftspeople worked on those. If you ever have done the Harry Potter studio tour, I love doing it.

17:57The stuff is so beautifully made. I think it's extraordinary. Chris Columbus has said he literally worked on it nonstop. He was going to just carry on. He just said, I got to the point where he said it was just the whole thing was such an extraordinary operation, just a huge amount of people. So he gave up after two. But again, that thing of he came over, did that, absolutely loved it, wants to come back to Britain all the time. We proved ourselves as a place where there were fantastic craftspeople. And we also had the post-production stuff. You've got these big, big powerhouses like Framestore, which do VFX and various types of editing.

18:30And then Warner Brothers basically bought Leavesden at the end of that. They didn't need to, but they, by that point, had liked it so much. And we proved ourselves as a place where you could do it end to end. Now, there are more, I think I'm right in saying that there are more sound stages here now, just in that corridor around London than there are in LA, which is extraordinary. And huge numbers of things. We talked last week about how Marvel are doing the Fantastic Four here and both then the new Avengers movies. We all had things like the Bond franchise, but Mission Impossible gets made here.

19:01There's so much stuff that's happened here. So basically, J.K. Rowling was a big part by insisting it had to happen here. But then what they have started to do is do the tax incentives. And so many movie productions chase incentives around the world. 100 % the other big thing the third piece of this jigsaw is you need an anglophone crew it's really helpful for the Americans this is why Australia the UK and places like that South Africa is big South Africa is big because if the crew speak English it is just obviously helpful on a very very tight where everything's very expensive it just removes one piece of friction those are the places which have really taken off but the UK is really at the forefront of that and it's such a successful business I mean I think that as many tax breaks as possible should be offered because it brings so much more money in than it takes out.

19:48It's funny that thing of tax breaks made a huge difference. It's like watching the Olympics and seeing the medal table. Going back to 1996 and Britain won 16 medals overall and they won one gold. And then you think, oh, then the national lottery money started coming through and suddenly we're right up on the medal table. You know, where you can leverage money from government sources or lottery sources, it makes a huge difference. In a planned way. In a planned way, and it makes Britain such a happier, more entertaining place. But yeah, tax incentives plus the incredible skill set we've had over here for many years are a potent combination.

20:22I wasn't aware of the JK Rowling bit of that jigsaw bit. And dare I say that the non-unionization, it's not the same. We don't have unionized crews in the same way where it's incredibly unionized, the American entertainment industry. And I think you can probably benefit, they probably think, I don't have to do it. But equally, don't go a minute over your shooting time, otherwise you'll know about it. Oh, no. And it is unionising. You have to all agree and the whole crew has to agree, etc, etc. But it's not the same as in America. A fantastic name now, Richard. Rod Begby. Listen, I'd have it if Irvin Welsh hadn't got there first.

20:58Yes. Do celebrities sign their name differently when doing an autograph versus when they're signing a contract? If I buy a signed copy of your book, Richard, could I be one step closer to figuring out how to forge my way into your will? So clever, Rod. Yes, God, when you sign books, I haven't done many this year because last year I did like 46 ,000 or something. So this year I've adapted in for America, but I'm going to do some individual signing. Sometimes you sit there for a whole week and you're signing and signing. It sent me insane. I did it once for two days and it sent me absolutely insane.

21:29I couldn't properly speak. I mean, that's what Jack Nicholson's doing in The Shining, isn't it, essentially? Yeah, just signing his name over and over again. You're doing even fewer words than he's saying. Yeah, he's signing tip-ins. Yes, my signature is certainly... I have a very efficient signing signature, which doesn't look like my official signature. And I got to a point where I'd done a few where I was thinking, no, that's literally unintelligible now. So then I have to remember just to make it look a bit more like my own name. The thing is, but here's the interesting thing, is you don't sign contracts anymore.

21:58You sign them all online. Yeah. And so your signature is like an absolute mess. And it looks like a scroll. So, yeah, you never sort of have official versions of your signature. I'm mining a name that doesn't actually exist. I just, like, Marina Hyde isn't actually my name. I've never created any form of name. Is it okay, though? Sorry, anyone I've ever signed a contract in, I don't think that is legally my name in any way. No way, that's great. And I've signed it all the time. But as I say, you just type it into Adobe Sign, don't you? Yeah, you really do. And which is, I mean, honestly, that's lovely.

22:28You don't have to print anything out. You do think, yeah, sometimes you do think, and can this be right? There's lots of cons that go around the publishing world, especially when they know that if you've been nominated for an award or something like that, or you've just been assigned a deal with a particular country, they'll send you something through and say, oh, this is with a tax office from Bulgaria, or, oh, I'm the treasurer of this award that I've seen you just won. We're just about to wire you the 50 ,000. We need you to do X, Y, or Z. And a lot of people have been caught out with those just because, again, you open Adobe, you just sign it and send it back off.

22:58And then the agent goes, no, they've already sent the money. What have you just signed? And they're suddenly like, oh, no. That's why I have you. Yes, exactly. That's what agents are for. So, yeah, I have a very efficient signature on signed books. I'll say that. A friend of mine who's an author and is very funny and knows all the authors sometimes gets the Christmas and thinks, oh, I've got to do it. I should do a signed copy of this. I can do Margaret Atwood's signature. Whoa. But it is a lovely thing to do. A signed book is a really lovely thing to have, I think, because it's a book you want anyway.

23:30It's just a really lovely present to give and all of that kind of stuff. Sometimes I look down at one I've just signed and just go, imagine if you had that at Christmas and that's my signature. Absolutely furious. I always tear it up and start again with the next one. But no, if ever I had to sign an actual contract I would be very florid and really spell out my name properly. But my God, it's... A wax seal I feel you should have now. You're moving into your wax seal years. That's a really good idea. And a thumbprint. A thumbprint. Perfect. But my author signature and my actual signature are very different.

24:04Paul Zander when we used to write the pointless books. He has to write Alexander Armstrong every time he signs something. And it takes forever. That is quite long. Yeah. It's really, it's really long. Yeah. And my agent said to me, why don't you develop an author signature? I said, like, I've got to do these in 48 hours. I can't develop anything new now. I'm going to have to work with what I've got, which is, I don't even have a signature in real life. I just write my name. So it did, it took me a long time. And that's perhaps why I did feel insane by the end of it. And you don't even write your name.

24:29You write someone else. You write a fake name. It's like a pretend name that apparently is legal. So your real name is Marina Abramovich, right? It's Marina Abramovich, yeah. I just try to keep the art world separate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it. I get it. Is that us done? I think that is. What lovely questions. Yeah, do keep sending them in. The more the merrier. The rest is entertainment at gmail.com. And we will see you next Tuesday. See you next Tuesday.

25:01Thank you.