Who Will Win The Traitors?

0:28Think your lashes have hit their limit? on your to-do list is a great feeling. And when it comes to checking off coverage, a State Farm agent can help you choose an option that's right for you. Whether you prefer talking in person, on the phone, or using the award-winning app, it's nice knowing you have help finding coverage that best fits your needs. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. At Sierra, discover great deals on top-brand workout gear, like high-quality walking shoes, which might lead to another discovery. 40 ,000 steps, baby. Who's on top now, Karen? You've taken the office step challenge a step too far.

1:06Don't worry, though. Sierra also has yoga gear. It might be a good place to find your zen. Discover top brands at unexpectedly low prices. Sierra, let's get moving.

1:20Welcome to this very special episode of The Rest is Entertainment concerning... The traitors. and it's what you're refusing to call an emergency podcast, but I'm very excited to call an emergency podcast. It'll be a cold day in hell before I ever use the term emergency podcast, which seems to me one of the most autoparotic terms of our time. It is a special edition. You can call it an emergency podcast if you wish, Richard, about the traitors. So Wednesday evening, episode 10 drops. We've got three episodes to go. So if you have not watched the first nine, do not listen. Stop listening right now because we're going to be talking about all our favourite bits.

1:55So we're going to talk about who we think is going to win. So stop listening if you haven't seen the first nine. Come back to us when you've seen them. But if you have watched the first nine and you're excited for Wednesday evening, we have eight players remaining. Paul has gone. And I, well, the bigger they come, the harder they fall. I was waiting for that one. I wasn't a huge fan of Paul. And I had to ask myself what, I mean, primarily I knew how he'd behave at a barbecue. Okay. I could just picture it. I had to interrogate myself on this because you're thinking, why when someone is playing the game, basically it is a game, it's a game of scheming and it's a game of double-crossing.

2:30I think he just played it too big. He became bigger than the club. He became bigger than the club. It was time to sell him to, you know, Real Madrid. He was too big and actually this is why you knew he was going to go. And I worry, is this happening to Harry now? I was going to say the exact same thing. Has Harry done a pool? He's become a sort of 22-year-old Scarface, which I... But we know how the movie ends, you see. So maybe he'll reign it back in. But if he carries on on the trajectory that he was in for most of Nine, of just really giving too much information, really getting into that role of master manipulator, I fear that he's not so long for this Scottish castle world.

3:10I think it's exactly right. I think it may have gone to his head a tiny bit. As it would, the thing that really got to him, there's a brilliant bit, he's talking to the diary room in one of the episodes, when Paul went and everyone just said, oh my God, that's like the greatest traitor of all time. That guy is a genius. And Harry's going, what about me? Yeah. I'm still here. Yeah. I'm the genius. Also, there were still eight people left in the show. So if that's the greatest traitor of all time, then I... Having said all that, something I said when we did the preview of the whole series before it came out, when these shows weren't really best, they kind of cleaved to those narrative tropes of fiction.

3:45And Harry has had a glow up. Because let's face it, at the start, you thought he doesn't seem the brightest and I'm not quite sure how he's going to play this and what's happened is it's like a movie where an ordinary person is thrust into extraordinary circumstances and has to step up to the challenge and survive so he has kind of become that but as I say I slightly worry he's become Tony Montana and I know how the movie ends but you know he might realize this and try and rein it in and go back to being appearing quite silly and stupid yeah it got a little bit succession when Harry and Paul so I keep I keep thinking of Harry Enfield and Paul Whitehouse when I say Harry and Paul.

4:17But anyway, when they would keep voting out the third member of the group, and then not only then recruiting someone that they thought was a patsy they could get rid of, but essentially telling them that when they got into the turret. And they'd just say, oh, the thing with Miles is we only got him because we thought, you know, we could get rid of him. And like Andrew going, oh, but me, you think I'm great. Paul was the born villain who has to tell you his plan just before he's quite managed to kill you. Now, Andrew is quite good as a traitor, even though I think Andrew's been a bit of a useless player throughout.

4:50He is in the strongest position in some ways because he's been recruited so late as a traitor. We've said that before, that that's one of the strongest positions in the game. He also doesn't like doing it. Being conflicted and not being like Harry now, who's like, I love killing people, same as Paul was. Being conflicted helps you. You are much more credible as someone who could be fit. And clearly, he obviously was a faithful sometimes, but you're much more, if you're conflicted, you're strong. He just started in that last episode, slightly getting into it. Slightly going, I'm quite enjoying this.

5:19But he's probably, we're near enough to the end now that it won't turn into megalomania. Yes. Which is always, you know, it's like Blair or Thatcher. If you're in power for too long, you know, you... You go mad. Yeah, exactly. It's just, you should only be a traitor for so long. About three episodes is about... Limited times on traitors. Exactly. So Andrew, I think, is great. And I think is completely under the radar. are so at the end of episode nine you have the thing of them deciding to seduce someone and murder someone yeah and harry did that thing which i think is clever about having the badge so you know he could say well they tried to murder me i suspect it might backfire because sometimes when things are too complicated yeah people don't understand them and they go for the much simpler version yes of what it is um so he had the shield and they recruit ross i mean ross let's face it is the worst player in the game.

6:12He's been the worst player in the game. Bless him. He's been loudly wrong on almost everything. And yet here he is. It's almost like that's the way to win, isn't it? You think he'll go on? I think he could do. Well, I tell you what. Sorry, I'm interrupting you because this is annoying. But there have been quite a few interviews over this weekend and the last week with the winners of the first season of Traitors saying, you know, how do you win? Now, let me explain. Those guys fluked their way to the prize part. They were not the brightest. and honestly Meryl says things like just be yourself and have fun so if that's the strategy and maybe she thinks that was her strategy but she fluked her way to that prize put Yes, it's interesting that she sort of imagines that there was some tactical awareness but Ross, when I was watching the end of episode 9 and they said, oh we're going to seduce and then you're used to how that show is edited and you go, oh there's going to be between the two of them and we're going to find out who it is in the start of the next episode.

7:10But then they said, oh, it's going to be Ross. Something, oh, so actually what the end of this is going to be is Ross going, I don't know whether to do it. Should I do it or should I not do it? And so they go to Ross and he's looking at the thing and he goes, yeah, I'm going to do it. And I was thinking, right, what is the end of? What is your cliffhanger? And of course the cliffhanger is him going into that turret, saying to the two of them, I'd be really interested about why you voted certain people out. anyone in specific let me think anyone Diane

7:44and Harry just going it's too clever mate she just had to go and then him just going right they killed my mum I mean that is what other reality show do you get that on well speaking of a player that I think is quite interesting I'd like to hear your thoughts on Zach he was kind of a savant at the start because he's very he's slightly sort of satirical erratic a bit shit stirring but he did have an intuition really early on in the series that diane was someone's mom and he thought it was paul's mom because they both had red hair and he was wrong about that but that was an unbelievable shout he's been and he called paul first and it protects him that people think he's silly and erratic and therefore couldn't be a traitor but do you think he can go all the way to the final yes i'm fascinated that he and jazz are still there because they're exactly the sort of people who would normally uh get voted out or be recruited zach must be thinking how am i still in this game and have not been recruited as a traitor at the moment what is it that i'm doing wrong because as you say i think i think he's playing fairly well by the way that the uh i was talking to someone on the team and they're saying that obviously they had to keep secret even the production office that um diane and ross were mother and son.

8:57And because it was Diane and Ross, their codename was The Supremes. Which is great. I love knowing this. By the way, the single best delivered line, one of the best delivered lines in reality TV show history was Diane going, of course Paul is not my son, but Ross is. That was, what? A marvellous dropper. Yes, well done, Diane. And then, you know, to have her in a coffin with her son dropping a rose. The high camp. That was one of the campus things I've ever seen on television. Black roses being cast by the son onto the mother. I just... Pick a frog in the hand down. Paul pretending to shake. God!

9:41See, I look... Sorry, can I go back to Paul for one minute? Yeah. Which is, I get what you're saying, but as a producer, you're thinking, thank God. Yeah. The whole history of reality TV shows is people reminding each other it's just a game. Listen, it's just a game. It's just a game. And people at home go, oh, my God, they're so obsessed. It's just a game. And as you say, when someone actually goes, okay, I'm just going to play it as just a game, people go furious. No, but it's not just a game, though, Paul. It's other human beings. You're playing with people's lives here, Paul. I love Paul. His parting shot, he didn't do too much wrong, but his parting shot where he said, perhaps Harry's learned a bit from me.

10:16I don't know about that, mate. I don't know about that. I don't know if he did. Yeah. Yeah, he wasn't held back by self-doubt, was he? If only he wanted what he could have achieved if he hadn't been. But can I also, I think I have to comment on the fact, which I thought Claudia commented rather tartly on it, that when they were given the chance to recruit again, oh my, you're going to recruit another guy. Another man. The only female traitor in that game was Ash, Claudia's hand on her shoulder, and that's it. It was almost as though they couldn't see, they said, oh, we'll get Miles, he's a really strong player.

10:45No, he's not. Yes, it's fascinating that. But interestingly, their tactic was, not for Mars, but for the others, let's get people who aren't very good. And so they started picking off the men. So maybe it's actually a very, very clever comment on the world we live in, that the most hopeless people in any room and the most disposable people are men. No, but it's fascinating that, isn't it? It's a real sausage fest up in the turret, isn't it? It really is. It's like an Australian barbecue up there. And I tell you, I knew how poor we behave. Now, can I speak to you as Dorothy coming to the great wizard of formats?

11:23Okay. At the start of this, you said there are quite a lot of flaws in this format. I feel that this second season has exposed even more significant flaws in the format. Do you share my views on this? Yeah. Well, the fascinating thing is how well it works despite the fact that the format doesn't work. I agree. So the format, if you play this game at home, which you can easily do, wink, murder, all that stuff. and you get rid of the three traitors, great, let's all have a drink. That's the end of the game, which cannot happen here, because there's 12 episodes. There's 12 episodes that have been funded, and 12 episodes have been scheduled, so it is going to go for 12 episodes.

12:03Now, that means, of course, that any time a traitor is got rid of, they get replaced instantly. And so the big issue is that thing in the first few shows, and people say, we have to get a traitor. Guys, it's so incredibly important we get a traitor now. The numbers are starting to really work against us. now that doesn't matter you do not need to get all you need to do is stay in that's all you need to do you do not need to get rid of any traitors in fact it's useful for you not to get rid of traitors what you should really be doing in those early days is is getting rid of some of the more sort of easily persuadable members of the faithful and building social capital yourself and building social capital that's what you should be doing now that's a big flaw at the heart of this show and yet I've got to say and it's not fixable basically it is completely not fixable and yet this is one of the greatest reality shows of all time I couldn't agree more so go figure and this series has been brilliant and I think I said look this show is as good or bad as its producers and it's been brilliantly produced this series I'll tell you what I love and what I didn't realise they did because one of my children alerted me to this which is what I've always wanted them to do is you because we loved seeing that they're wrong every night and that's what I said on an earlier discussion of this which is you know what very confident people being shown they're completely wrong about things is a really engaging watch i would love them i'd love to see them find out who the traitors are once they're off now that actually does happen on the traitors uncloaked so i this weekend i caught up on watching quite a few people find out who the actual trait is but of course they can't believe paul they're just they just can't believe it it's it's really amazing that people don't when they keep getting it wrong night after night think why don't i just go for the literally the you know do the opposite day just do the opposite is there a seinfeld episode where george costander just does the opposite because he's failing so badly at everything he just thinks i'm just gonna do the absolute opposite of what i'm supposed to do i'm just gonna vote for molly yeah i'm just just well everyone's saying the one person it can't be is paul just just maybe just have a night of floating out there and saying i'm gonna vote for you but that you know there's if i was sitting on that round table there's definitely an argument to say look we're sort of coin tossing here we're all agreed in fact we're slightly worse than coin tossing with less than 50 let's all just vote for molly but really early on just go look absolutely nothing against her but we might as well the herd behavior is another sort of element it's arguably a bit of a flaw in it that they that the herd behavior is getting in the slipstream of more vocal people and just saying i've gone along with that in the first season that didn't happen so much because as always you've got the new You've newly fallen snow of a first season and you can make of it what you will.

14:40Once people have seen a season themselves and then they become contestants in the next season, they've got a whole load of views about how they're going to do things. But, you know, again, they can't because they're in a castle with loads of people and loads of cameras everywhere and they're completely cut off from their normal life. Sleep deprived. They're sleep deprived. You know, they're in an insane environment. And so everybody reverts to the mean. Everybody. Because they can't help it. because it's such an alien environment. And that's why the show works. Now, eight people left. Yeah, I mean, who's going to win?

15:14I mean, it looks a lot like Jasmine might be out in the next round table. That's what Wreck-Rom's leaving. Who knows? Yes, okay, maybe I'm wrong. That'd be interesting if Ross... You're so anti-Ross. I'm not... Well, I just don't know. I just think that they'll turn on him immediately. And I think that people think that he's been very vocal. and also there's an element where people wish in the in the faithful group wish to punish people who keep getting it wrong and have been very vocal at the table about it because they think they've been deflecting or something like that so i've i slightly feel that he might go next but maybe i'm completely wrong about that i'm sure you are far better at these things than me oh my god no it's impossible i mean i think we can both agree that evie and molly are going nowhere no i mean they again they may fluke their way to the prize part it's in in other editions of the shows is the US first season and the Australian one, it's not, again, we've got spoilers in this and we have told people this, the traitors win and, or a traitor wins.

16:12The first UK one is the only one where people who are faithful which is a harder position to win from. This one could be going that way, I think. I'd like to think Harry will win it because I just love that glow up thing and I like it being like a three act movie. So I'd like to think it, I have to say that that's, I think that's a bit of a fantasy now, but I'd like to be wrong. Yeah, it would be fun for Harry to win after what he's done. I feel like Andrew is in a strong, he might be in a stronger position than Harry. Harry's brought, I think, too much heat on himself now by being this seer who doesn't get murdered.

16:46It really depends on whether this shield thing pays off. They say, well, they tried to murder me. It just feels like when you've got Zach, Jazz there who are suspicious of everything. Now, Jazz is an interesting player. Yeah. I think he is he's brave and he's right about lots of things but he doesn't have the social game I got somebody described in the other day what they say they said he he has no persuasion maybe one of the traders in the turret said he has no persuasion he is often right about things but is not a persuasive advocate for those and yeah which which is why he's still there if I was in honestly in the game now you have to wonder why you're still in the game if you're a faithful you have to wonder why you're still in the game and you know there's always a reason god it's going to be genuinely fascinating so there's three traitors there's five faithfuls if jasmine does go in the round table and then they murder we're down to three and three which is a point where it's almost impossible for the traitors to lose unless they absolutely fall in on themselves which they may well do because i think it's one of those things have you ever seen the wonderful speed skating final at the winter olympics yes i have seen speed skating where there's an australian guy's got to the final and he's up against the three best speed skaters in the world and he's sort of half a lap behind all of them and then right on the last corner of the last bend all three of them take each other out and this australian just sort of sails through and wins the gold medal in speed skating and i feel like that might be andrew okay thank you so much for tuning into this non-emergency but very special podcast thank you so much for tuning into the emergency podcast it is greatly i know marina is very happy you've listened to the emergency podcast wednesday thursday friday night the new traitors um and we'll talk about how you didn't predict who was going to win oh god i agreed with you i thought it would be someone like that but i don't i want it to be harry you want it to be i get too invested in the characters and i want it to be but i feel it's all gone wrong but i want it to be him you wanted to be him yeah we'll see how wrong we were and don't forget we've got a q and a episode coming out on thursday and then back for the regular show next tuesday see you then see you then

19:08The Sausage McMuffin with Egg