Why Kids Must Watch More TV

0:02Hello and welcome to this episode of the Restless Entertainment Questions and Answers edition. I'm Marina Hyde. And I'm Richard Osmond. Hello, Marina. How are you, Richard? Yes, very, very well. Are you well? I'm very well, thank you. It's been a long time since I last saw you. It's been an age. Yeah. Too long. Too long. Things change. Shall we go into a series of questions from our wonderful listeners? Let's break the mould and do it. Yeah, let's do it. I'm going to start. This is a question from Tom Brownlee. Tom Brownlee, the least talented of the Brownlee brothers. He's the Brownlee brother who can't do the triathlon.

0:32At the Olympics, he's sitting at home with his mum, and they're watching Alistair and Johnny. and his mum's going no I love you too Tom I do love you make us a cup of tea will you I think his question will be able to compete at international level well let's find out he's like who was the other Gallagher brother Paul Gallagher do you remember when Oasis came up yeah listen Tom you may not be related at all to the Brownlee brothers but what if you are it's a bit of fun there's a film the third Brownlee brother should we do the question or should I pitch that first of all I don't think that is a film but I don't want to get sidetracked even further the third Brownlee brother isn't a film No.

1:06Oh, hi, you're greenlit. Oh, I've accidentally won an Oscar, Marina. Let's play back last year's question and answer thing where you said it wasn't a movie. Shall I tell you who I'm inviting to the Oscars? Who? Lineker, Peston, McGovern, the rest is history guys. Not Marina because she didn't believe in me. Tom, here's your question. I'm so sorry. He says, watching the Bourne Automatum and there's a scene. Oh, that won't work, Bourne Automatum, will it, Marina? Bourne as a film? No. Shouldn't have thought so. Well, you don't think that's a good idea for a film compared to, like, what if there were some triathletes brothers who we didn't know about?

1:40No, it's just... Yeah, no, it is quite a good film, Richard, and that's why when they got to the third one, they knew it was really quite good. It did very well as a trilogy, but... Yeah, but I bet somebody very early on was like, no, that's not going to work. Oh, there was a naysayer, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah, to that story, there would have been a naysayer. Ah, Tom. Tom, what have you done? Watching the Bourne Ultimatum, and there's a scene in a crowded Waterloo station. How do they film things like that? Is it expensive to get such locations? Yes. Now, that is actually done in Waterloo Station, and they couldn't shut it down.

2:07And you will actually see some people stop and point at the cameras in that. Transport of London are very fussy about all types of how all the stations and things like that are used. Even their logo, if you want to use their brand and logo in a movie, there are 35 pages of guidance as to how that has to happen. Oh, my God. It's like buying a return to York. Yeah, that's the only thing that takes longer. In terms of the tube, Aldwych and Charing Cross have full or partial closures, meaning that you can film within those stations. And you can have a working tube carriage coming into a station at Bank at the weekend.

2:38And there's all sorts of ghost tube stations as well. Yeah, there are loads of those ones in there, but there have been a whole show made about things like that. One just around the corner from here. Yeah, I'm surprised they did that in The Bourne Ultimator in a way, because Slow Horses, the books, Mick Herron's books, opens with a big sort of action set piece, supposedly following a terrorist attack at King's Cross. When they tried to do it, obviously when they, Will Smith, who adapted the books, and James Hawes, the director of the first series. Not that Will Smith. Not that Will Smith. They thought, OK, well, let's try and do it as the books say, but it was just too difficult.

3:13And funnily enough, lots of train stations don't really like the thought that terrorism could happen there. So they weren't thrilled about that. And then I remember Will going off and doing a big... Heathrow were really nice and they did a big sort of scout at Terminal 2, which was under reconstruction at the time and they were going to do it there. You couldn't have the crew and access because that will take about three days to shoot just one of those things, even if you're really efficient. There's a lot going on in that city. So much is going on. Then lockdown happened because of the pandemic.

3:39And then they started looking up again and their brilliant locations manager, Ian Pollington, and the incredible producer, Jane Robertson, Will said they worked out a way to use Stansted and Wembley Stadium. So Stansted was the departure gate and the runway and the baggage carousels. Wembley was some of the corridors and escalators. And then the climax is on the platform at the Stansted Express. And Stansted wasn't operating at full capacity. So this is one of the only times a pandemic ever helped anything. especially a TV and film production. And they took over a wing of the departure gates and they sort of had the run of the Wembley Stadium because I don't think much was happening there then.

4:19But everyone on camera is an actor or an extra, except the director, James Hall, said that police and the airport security teams are the real ones. And so lots of the people, they were saying, well, this is what you do in that situation. This is how I'd react. So they're reacting in a really authentic way. Yeah, it's cool, isn't it? yeah it's really worth re-watching which i went and did after so wilson we would never have been able to do that opening under normal circumstances but it was it was amazing it took us three days and it got off because it's such a sort of spectacular opening to a series and it got them off to a really great start so that was a rare incident of the of the pandemic helping the airports were more relaxed about um being used for this sort of thing because it said they they said, OK, but this shows that we have processes and we stop terrorism.

5:08Yes. But the train stations just recoiled in lots of ways. A lot of things. If they are somewhere public, then they are shot very early in the morning. But if you can do it first thing in the morning, which is why lots of things are shot in the summer as well, so you can shoot at 4.30 a.m. sometimes, or lots of things are shot in the city on a Saturday morning because no one's really around. Yeah, you can shoot sunrise for sunset and the other way around. and also if you look up in the sky and it's got a funny sort of peachy filter or something on it then it's just a totally different time of day and they've made it look that way and because things take so long to shoot they have to do that to kind of homogenise a changing sky To homogenise the changing sky The Booker Prize winning novel Richard, this is about one of your recommendations last week Amanda and Alan's Italian Job Rebecca Sinnott asks Please can you tell me how long it takes to film Amanda and Alan's Italian Job Do they just fly back and forth to the UK doing a couple of days filming, or do they stay there for the whole process?

6:04Also, how much input do they actually have in the design? That was one of my recommendations. In fact, Amanda, an Italian-Spanish job, which is the third series of it. It's been two in Italy. I thought that rather than answer this question myself, I'd just get someone involved in that show. And so we have this from Amanda Holden. Well, we started the Spanish job in March and we finished it in September. and I think we made a total of 28 flights in total. So we were absolutely shattered and I broke at least four cents of nails. We fly out backwards and forwards. So obviously I've got other jobs that I do.

6:42So does Alan. So we'll fly out for three days, come back and do the other work and then maybe fly out 10 days later so that the plumbers and the people that actually need to do with the electrics and stuff, because obviously we cannot be trusted with that, can get on with that and then we'll come back out. And also there's times when me and Alan can't be there together. So you might see me relaxing on the beach or going to a spa, like, you know, Alan takes the mickey out of me. And then Alan might be bashing down a wall. And that's because our schedules weren't able to work together. And, yeah, as for input, oh, my God, we get all the input in the world for decoration and stuff.

7:21I make mood boards. I go on Pinterest. I found the wallpaper for the up-to-date bathroom. It was my ideas. put the tiled wallpaper on the wall in the bar. Yeah, our input is genuine and there and we're passionate and we absolutely love it. And it's knackering and we moan a lot. But as long as we've got a glass of wine in our hand at the end of the day, we're available for DIY. Thank you so much, Amanda. I love that. You can tell on that show that they are putting the work in. You can tell also that the drink in the evening would be an absolute scream. I would very much like to be there for that glass of wine.

7:57But 28 flights, wow, that's a lot. That's a lot. I literally, there's very few things I like more than hearing how other people put their shows together because shows always seem simple. And when you hear what other people have to do, you think, of course, it's unbelievably complicated and every show has its own unique differences and unique problems. We so often say you can really tell when a presenter has been parachuted into a format and just done a bit because it's cheaper that way. And when someone is like as heavily involved as like we are doing this with the uplighting and we are putting this tile wallpaper on.

8:28Yeah, exactly that. And that show is an example of that. I recommended it last week. I recommend it again. It's the Spanish version at the moment, but it's a real joy. And thank you so much to Amanda Holden. Thank you, Amanda. This is a nice one from David Johnston. I'm having a baby. Congratulations, David. As technically geriatric parents, my partner and I, is that like post 32 or something? Yeah, something like that. You're technically geriatric, aren't you? my partner and I are getting all hand-ringy about the role that technology will play in our daughter's life what are your thoughts on TV as a third parent and what were your favourite shows for yourselves and your kids I literally love TV almost more than the other parent in my life when I was growing up and we tell our children this, we lived in a wasteland you know what it was like, there was 20 minutes on after lunch, after Pebble Mill and then you had to wait till the evening programming, there was very very little so there was nothing, you can obviously now watch at 24 hours a day or not but i would say anything on cbb cbb is the most amazing channel people absolutely you can't say enough about cbb from the bedtime story to everything with my children you know i i mean i hate teletubbies but they loved it so we did that but also that's half an hour you're not having to be the parent that you will take those four lunatics being the parent at that point for definite i would have thought teletubbies was after your kids time because my kids are now in their mid-twenties and Teletubbies was absolutely the big show.

9:51Teletubbies and Tweenies were the shows then. I brought my kids up really before streaming and the internet and these 24-hour things just in that sort of interregnum where there was a bit more going on but not like it is today. So sometimes I do think God parenting would have been so much easier if we'd had the internet. It was brilliant. Well, I mean, the internet is more, you know, you're going to have all the advertising and we would schedule like the bath to be around certain times. Abney and Teal I absolutely love that's by the people who did in the Night Garden I absolutely loved Abney and Teal completely the Night Garden liked it a lot Hey Dougie brilliant totally brilliant Peppa Pig is obviously you know they become obsessed with Peppa Pig for a certain time and you just you're only watching episodes of Peppa Pig now my children watch really horrible sort of you know swearing parodies of it all which I'm not so keen on and what else Bluey obviously brilliant and Bluey is the most streamed show in the world in terms of television I was always honestly I tried to teach them to say the phrase high production values and really quite early because I would say look at this someone's made this lovely thing and you know I know you just want to watch someone draw some pictures on their face on YouTube and it's all just nonsense but I really tried to put them in front of good television and for there to be things that you could watch as a family that's why I sometimes things that you can continue watching as a family I mean better I think that they watch some unsuitable stuff, but you're all watching it together, then they just have, at a certain point, they just retreat into their rooms and watch their own things, whatever.

11:19So I, you know, I mean, I've shown them some terribly unsuitable things, I must say, but I love television as a third parent. And I know, I mean, what did it mean to you? Yeah, to speak to David's broader point, anyone who's got young kids, you know, as Adam, it's just really, really, really difficult. You know, anything that can give you half an hour off every now and again. People feel terribly guilty, I think, about putting their kids on an iPad or something like that. and you just mustn't. So long as you, as you say, you're supervising what it is they're watching and there's something interesting that they're watching.

11:48But how much should you learn from television? I mean, I learn almost everything I know from television. I mean, even now, you know, I think I probably know more about Rent-A-Ghost than I know about what I did for my degree. And, you know, I loved television. Television opened up a whole world to me and I think it still does. I think so long as you have some sort of quality control and when your kids are very young, you can have quality control. They'll literally do what they're told. they'll sit where you put them. By the way they do know how to work it quicker than you real fast. Certainly if you give them something that they can't swipe they look at you like you've gone mad.

12:20But so I would say David there will be times there'll be long evenings there'll be nights when the child is up at two in the morning or three in the morning or four in the morning where it's incredibly useful to have something on in the background there'll be times where you'll have to do something very important in a given time and a child watching Peppa Pig is not going to do them any harm whatsoever we're all aware that you could put a kid in front of an ipad for 24 hours a day and they would not get bored in the same way that a 70 year old can sit in front of a slot machine in vegas and not get bored all day because it's constant you know attention grabbing so maybe don't do that but no guilt please about the fact that people around the world have made extraordinary things for you to watch and it will hold your attention and they're just incredible it's such a the form is constantly moving on with the same values i find it brilliant yeah anything you can do to support those industries i mean bluey is something that didn't used to exist now it does it's probably one of the great works of art of the 21st century and so of course it's okay for your kid to watch that in fact it should be compulsory for your kid to watch that and we all went to school with people whose parents didn't allow them to have televisions and they watch itv that was a thing in the old days they they did not turn out to have better paying more interesting jobs than everybody else because i can absolutely guarantee you that you're if honestly i'd rather stick my kid in front of a tv than send him to piano lessons you know what i mean because i'd have to say likewise but sorry i'm but you know i love the piano please don't write it but they are not going to become professional pianists whereas you know they are still going to watch tv for the rest of their lives so actually piano lessons is a bad example because i think they're quite good french french i'll take i love children's television and i loved sitting there watching it just honestly propping a baby up and watching i mean no i don't want to watch the teletubbies where everything happens twice in the same episode it's i mean rosie and jim i remember that being around when my kids were little we didn't watch the ragdolls which is really terrifying but yeah no no no hand wringing no hand wringing you trust yourself.

14:21You know, you'll know when it's too much. But yeah, you are not doing anyone any harm. Just let them watch them. Make sure they're watching good stuff. Make sure you're supporting those industries. Make sure those things are being made for your grandchildren in 30 years time. Shall we go into a break now, Richard? Yeah, come on.

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16:00Welcome back, everybody. Marina, we have a question from Afua Hirsch and Peter Frankopan, who host Goalhanger and Wondery's podcast Legacy, which has a new season all about Marie Antoinette. And they ask, Marina, a few weeks ago you said that you hate biopics, or biopics, of musicians. But what about historical figures? Do you have a top three biopics, or biopics, on figures in history. Right, first of all, thank you, Afra and Peter. By the way, Richard, their podcast legacy is excellent. It spans the whole of Marie Antoinette's life from her archduchess in Austria all the way to becoming queen and one of the most divisive figures in all of French history.

16:35So tune in. I would hope that it would cover her whole life if you're doing a podcast about Marie Antoinette. I don't want to go, you know what, we're going to skip loads of this. Let's just, this is one Tuesday. Here we come to the old biopic question. or biopic, whichever you wish to say. Everything tries to make art out of quite a messy human experience, which often doesn't fit into a film. So all of my favourite ones, it won't surprise you, are not quite what you'd call a biopic. So they might not tell the exact historical truth, but they tell a deeper truth, I think, which makes them better movies.

17:09You mean they lie? Well, no, you've got to take artistic liberties. Are you telling me that Robbie Williams is not a monkey? wow I'm not actually saying that I'm not actually what I'm saying okay at number three because I know I'm going to have to do it in the right order oh do you know what are you okay I mean what yeah okay listen I just think that's probably a good lesson at number three Raging Bull Jake LaMotta obviously Martin Scorsese now that right from the very start of that with the titles that are like ballet by the way Scorsese wasn't even interested in boxing it was Robert De Niro who read the book and didn't particularly like the writing style but loved the character.

17:47And Jake Lamotta said to someone who knew him, God, was I really like that. He didn't like it at all when he first saw it. And she said, you were so much worse. So it told us a deeper psychological truth. Okay, at number two, again, Amadeus. Now, again, I love Amadeus. I think it's such a clever conceit, but it was based on a play by Peter Schaffer. And what Peter Schaffer said, it is a sort of fantasia on the life of Mozart. And it's that brilliant device of Salieri, the other sort of, you know, the rival composer of the age, and just sort of tracking this genius who's boorish and disgusting or whatever, and Salieri does everything right but isn't a genius.

18:26And that line, you know, I speak for all the mediocrities in the world. But again, this is a sort of fantasy. This is not exactly historical truth. So that's my number two. And at number one, and I know you're probably going to have a... Again, it is about William Randolph Hearst, but Citizen Kane. Citizen Kane. Because I absolutely love it. Again, just even thinking about this, I thought, I'm going to treat myself. I'm going to watch the first three minutes of that movie. Watch the first three minutes of that movie on YouTube. It's only lightly fictionalized, really, but it's so much. Awesome Wells, obviously.

18:56The first three minutes of that are so beautiful. The sort of deep focus technique, it's absolutely stunning. It's black and white, and it's absolutely stunning. The snow globe, and later, Howie tries to tie it all up in a big bow with the rosebud conceit. again it's not an exact historical record but it was so obviously it drove William Randolph Hearst completely mad and everyone knew it was really about him and so in a way I think it counts and that is my number one I can't watch a biopic if it doesn't have a line like Ray Charles is sitting there and there'll be like someone they'll have a chauffeur called Jack and he'll go hit the road Jack and then go hold on a minute that's what I'm looking for in a biopic I'm going to go for Straight Outta Compton, the NWA biopic.

19:42That is very, yeah. Again, it's not, but it sort of is history. Yeah. You know, there's so many people listening to this podcast, that's a long, long time before their time. You know, I don't know if that counts for legacy. Oh, I think it's history. Of course it is. Yeah, of course it's history. Eazy-E was very much the Marie Antoinette of his day. Makes you think, doesn't it? You always make me think, Richard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. And Dr. Dre, sort of the Louis XIV. Love it. Yeah. Okay. We should do, we should do like a legacy type podcast. Oh, yes. Well, in a way, our club thing is bits of entertainment history.

20:15Yes, that's true. Because they're all out of time, those episodes. They're not related to things in the week. They're just sort of things from the past that have taken off. Yeah, in some ways, we are great historians. You're right. Yeah. Oh, God. Where's my fellowship with the Royal Society? Yeah, actually, where's mine? Before we get there, you can listen to the new series of Legacy Now with Peter Frankopan and Afua Hirsch wherever you get your podcasts or listen to episodes early and ad-free on Wondery+. Plus, question for you, Richard, on buying a feature in music. Raphael Briand says, Dear Thelma and Louise, love it.

20:45Oh, I love it. Which one's which? I think I'm Thelma because you look after me. Which one's Susan Sarandon? Yeah, you're her. Okay, well, Susan Sarandon feels the older one, so I'll be Susan Sarandon. Yes, but she tries to get Thelma out of the stupid scrape she's got herself into. Oh my God, that's just like ours. Yeah, yeah. Oh my God, that's just like ours. Yeah, that's still like ours. I've heard that record labels of up and coming rappers or in some cases the rappers themselves will sometimes pay huge amounts of money to feature or be featured by higher profile artists how much does it cost to buy a feature with a major artist and to what extent can they choose their collaborations for artistic reasons?

21:20I mean it's an interesting question and that is slightly not what happens it doesn't really happen that way around it used to happen way back when that if you two would go on tour whoever was supporting them would have bought their way onto the tour So you can be a small band and buy your way onto a tour of a big act or something like that to give you recognition. But this way around, actually, it's more that smaller acts by rappers to be on their songs, if that makes sense. Half the top 40 is someone featuring someone else. You know, an example would be Estelle when she came out with American Boy Estelle, which was much loved and, you know, very credible as an artist, hadn't completely broken through to the mainstream.

22:01and they managed to get Kanye to do his verses on that and it turned it into one of the biggest songs in the world, made her an absolutely massive star. So there is a lot to be gained by getting a big rapper onto your song as a featured artist. So that's the way around. It really, really works. And rappers will charge an awful lot of money for it. Lil Baby will charge you$350 ,000. Nicki Minaj, if you want to have some bars from Nicki Minaj, there'll be half a million dollars to do that. And, you know, again, because it just it means you might already have a following, but she's got such a huge following.

22:33It's worth spending that money. That money is almost like marketing money to get your record on the radio and get your record heard all sorts of places. Snoop Dogg, who does all sorts of work with all sorts of people, he will charge you a quarter of a million for 16 bars. That's quite cool, isn't it? So specific. Yeah. But you have to give him another quarter of a million dollars to be in the video. J. Cole. J. Cole charges$2 ,000 a word. I like that. that's a very specific way of doing it yeah so it's it's a huge business drake will cost you like a million or something like that but you know it'll get cheaper it's sort of worth doing it it'll get cheaper trust me but yeah he's got rights but they're coming down so yeah the question itself is can you pay to be on a big artist track almost always no is a question for that obviously if you share a management label with someone there's all sorts of collaborations that are when no money ever changes hands it's just people who want to work with each other all have the same management and you know work together or who were recording at the same time somewhere and help each other out there's loads and loads of examples of that and you know share the publishing and share the royalties and all that kind of stuff but yes there is a very very healthy market in getting a very well-known rapper onto a less well-known singer or acts song and you have to pay them an awful lot of money to do that so that that's the way around that works as i say in the kind of 90s and noughties it worked that you would buy yourself onto a tour but in terms of rap business it is very much the uh the big name rappers who are getting paid to do that here's a question for you marina from alan middleton uh when you i don't know if he's one of the middletons kate and pippa maybe alan is the third sitting on the sofa surely after james james is he a brother yeah there was a point where he had a business which was photographing things and sending them into marshmallows that came through your letterbox called bump Sorry, you were photographing?

24:20Yeah, you could get an image photographed. This was his business. You could get an image photographed, put onto some marshmallows that came through your letterbox and they were called Bumph. Okay. And that's the sound they made when it hit the floor. I mean, I'm a specialist in people's businesses that for whatever reason didn't work out. And I'm afraid I don't think Bumph is trading any longer. If I'm wrong, I'm so sorry. Just send me a few on some marshmallows and I'll eat them. And I will. Oh my God, they got squashed. I'll eat it in every sense. So perhaps Alan is the fourth Middleton. I think although if you'd called your other kids Kate, Pippa and James, you probably wouldn't call your fourth child Alan.

24:56I could be wrong. When you see a character on screen using email or social media, why is it a made-up version and not the real thing like Gmail or Facebook? Would it not be easy just to pay these firms to use their name? Most people's experience with these things, if you don't have to pay someone some money, it's always good not to have to pay them some money. That is money you don't need to spend. And in general, it's expensive to pay people for the use of their names. In general, people do it because, I mean, I was watching that apple cider vinegar thing, which is one of the many, many dramas and documentaries in the scammer vertical, I would call it, about this woman who lied about, which is on Netflix.

25:34And she lied about having brain cancer and became a sort of influencer. And that was all via Instagram. But you can see already the difficulty you're getting into, which is you're saying, the story context of all these things can make it actionable. So if you're saying, oh, Instagram is the sort of place where the charlatans can ruin the lives of real cancer patients, which I'm not saying it is. And the fact that she did do it via Instagram, that's not the point. It just, once it's in the context of those stories, it can make it more legally actionable. Increasingly, because it's such a big part of our lives and it's difficult always, this is a bit of a sidebar, to know how to put that in a story because people use social media a lot and it is a big part of our lives, but it's kind of annoying on television.

26:15Sometimes you can just do a quick scene of it. Like I remember in I May Destroy You where there's that sort of Twitter psychosis scene where all of these bubbles are sort of going off her head and Michaela Cole's walking through the streets in a Halloween costume as I remember it. But it's not clear at all what platform that's happening on. Again, because you're not quite sure that you would have to pay. There's another reason, which is that even the interface that they use can be dating. Those interfaces can sort of change and you think, oh, Facebook doesn't look like that anymore. Again, you always have to pay, so why would you?

26:44And it's just much, much easier not to. I mean, but yes, in general, they do it because it changes. The story changes the context of everything. And it heightens that sense that like, huh? Why did the platform, even though you might see things happening on a platform every day in real life, once you see in a drama something bad happening on a platform, it's sort of like, oh, why doesn't the platform take responsibility for that? Now, we might all be asking ourselves these kind of questions, but they are to be explored somewhere other than a drama. So that's why it's much easier to just create an interview.

27:16And people spend a lot of time creating sort of off the peg basic things you can use for the social media in your show. In general, I feel like it's writers struggle with this all the time. It's a bit of a cop out having it because you're basically people are reading something from a different medium on screen. And you sort of can't avoid it. But equally, you can't avoid it. You want to do it as little as possible. It's a bit like being on the phone. You want to do it as little as possible. And this is why people don't say hello, goodbye and things on the phone. You don't want to make it. So it's rather difficult in the case of an Instagram scam documentary to not have a social media platform.

27:49So you have to. But also in documentaries, it's fair use as well, because it did happen on Instagram. So there's stuff you're allowed to show. That's the documentary. The drama of it, they do not call it Instagram. It's a nameless, you can't quite see the name of the platform. But the other reason, of course, is in the same way that if someone ever reads out their phone number on a television program, it's a fake phone number which doesn't exist. The second you had a real Facebook account or anything like that and it had someone's name, people would endlessly go into it. So then you've suddenly got a neg check that no one's got exactly that name or anything like that.