156. Trump vs Bad Bunny: How The Super Bowl Could Cost MAGA

12:40David McCloskey:Nothing says family like Kid Rock.

12:42Katty Kay:Nothing says family like Kid Rock. Should we just read a couple of the lyrics from country singer Kid Rock? 2001 song. He writes, young ladies, young ladies, I like them underage. See, some say that's statutory. I say it's mandatory.

12:59David McCloskey:That hasn't aged well in the past quarter century, has it?

13:03Katty Kay:And particularly not aged well right at the moment, perhaps with all the Epstein stuff going on. But there is Franklin Graham and all of these evangelists and Turning Points USA, which presents itself as a Christian organization. And the Franklin Graham saying, well, I don't want this over-sexualized show that Bad Bunny is going to put on. So what does he do? He puts on a guy who has sung a song about raping children. I mean, I think that's fair enough, isn't it? I think that's how you would talk about that. Young ladies, young ladies, I like them underage. See, some say that's statutory, referring to statutory rape.

13:37Katty Kay:So that is their equivalent. Anyway, they They got 5 million, which I actually thought was not bad. I think that's a pretty big audience because they clearly have a big audience themselves.

13:44David McCloskey:More than I would have thought.

13:45Katty Kay:But they were sort of blown out of the water by the 133 million that watched Bad Bunny live and in streaming. So he's had a ton of backlash in MAGA world, namely Megyn Kelly has kind of led the charge. Donald Trump, as we said earlier. But not every MAGA person thinks this should be criticized. Perhaps they read the political writing on the wall. conservative influencer Emily Austin said Bad Bunny had the biggest stage in the world and could have made it political he didn't he chose unity and love you can celebrate different backgrounds and still love this country and MAGA friendly influencer Logan Paul rounded on his own brother Jake who had criticized the show and the fake American citizen at his heart Logan said I love my brother but I don't agree with this Puerto Ricans are Americans and I'm happy they were given the opportunity to showcase the talent that comes from the island.

14:37Katty Kay:That's Logan Paul.

14:38David McCloskey:Doesn't Jake Paul live in Puerto Rico? He's criticizing Puerto Ricans. He lives there, doesn't he? I think probably as a tax grift, I'm sure.

14:47Katty Kay:We're going to talk about grift in the second half. I have a feeling that's tax grift. Well, anyway, that might not go down terribly well with his neighbors, his new neighbors, who I'm sure are lovely. Okay, I'm also going to ask you to put on your Dallas-Fort Worth rest is politics US special correspondent for the Dallas-Forthworth area.

15:06David McCloskey:It's the job I've always wanted.

15:07Katty Kay:The job you have always wanted. Who knew you didn't even know you had the job? So that's even the best kind of job to get. But let's talk a little bit about the kind of broader politics of this in the context of the Hispanic vote. I mean, not to get too hacky on this, but that's what this is, a politics show. And if you look at the way that Hispanics, we've said this on the program before, Hispanic voters really helped power Donald Trump into office in 2024. It was a kind of surprising swing vote fed up, according to exit polling, largely with inflation, to some extent with immigration, but they were quite happy with his border policies, but they didn't like the inflation and they kind of became a swing vote and they swung enough to vote for Donald Trump to get in there.

15:52Katty Kay:But we spoke about this on the show last week. There was a special Senate seat, Texas Senate, not National Senate, Texas Senate seat election right down the road from UR, which is why you've just got this illustrious new job, where Taylor Remitt, the Democrat, captured 79 % of the Hispanic vote in the district. And that was a 26 point jump from the 53 % of the Hispanic vote that Kamala Harris got in that same district in 2024. And I think if Republicans needed any more glaring example of why perhaps alienating Bad Bunny supporters and appearing to kind of suggest that somebody from Puerto Rico doesn't represent traditional American values is bad politics, that Taylor Remit performance, we spoke about his overall performance last week, but we've dug down a bit into the specific Hispanic vote performance.

16:47Katty Kay:That 26-point swing that he got in Hispanic vote should be, I think, a flashing red alarm for them, right?

16:54David McCloskey:No, I think so. And I mean, when you go down to the precinct level in that district, which covers kind of...

17:02Katty Kay:We knew this is why we wanted you for the job. This is so good.

17:06David McCloskey:First, it was first it was Anthony's job, but now it's the sort of, you know, Fort Worth special election correspondent.

17:13Katty Kay:We love a precinct level on the rest is politics, U.S.

17:16David McCloskey:Yeah. 83 % of the precincts in that district, so 301 out of the 364 that are there, shifted to remit, shifted to the Dems from as compared to the general election in 2022. Right. So you would expect swings, I think, in kind of a midterm, you know, a year, but like at that level, that's pretty ridiculous. And I think, you know, I think, what is it? Hispanics are about 40 % of Texas's population, right? Trump won the overall demographic in 2024. I think actually many, as you said, just speaking anecdotally of friends, neighbors, colleagues here from the Dallas-Fort Worth area who are Hispanic, many voted for Trump on the basis of having immigrated legally to the U.S.

18:09David McCloskey:and not wanting, you know, others to sort of, I guess, be able to jump the line, you know, unfairly, as they would see it. And also on kind of wedge social issues, where they felt very out of step with where the Democrats were and where the Biden administration was. But I think now when you talk to those people, when you look at the polling on, in particular, the deployment of ICE, there is a feeling that it has gone well beyond what they voted for, right? And I think when you look at the national polls, I mean, 58 % of poll respondents said that ICE has gone too far, which maybe sounds low in the UK, but it's a real shift, right?

18:54David McCloskey:I mean, and I think that that is going to, I mean, you can see that reflected, I think, in the Remit special election here in Fort Worth, where there is a change. I mean, there was even a quote in one of the articles from the president and CEO of the U.S. Hispanic Business Council, right? He said, Hispanics are leaving the Republican Party in droves and going the opposite direction, right, in talking about this election. So, I think there is a real shift that's going on here. There is going to be a follow-on. This is just to fill the seat up until the election later this year. So there's going to be another head to head between Remit and Lee Wamskans, who is the who's the sort of MAGA Republican who is challenging him.

19:36David McCloskey:So we'll see if it holds. But I think if you're the Republicans, you have to be you've got to be concerned about that shift because that would put a whole bunch of potentially kind of bright red districts in Texas in question.

19:49Katty Kay:I don't think I've seen a shift of one demographic group this fast, a single demographic group move this dramatically in such a short space of time. And initially, when we started getting the polls on this and we started seeing the shifts last year in those special elections in New Jersey and Virginia for governor, we spoke about it back then. And a lot of it was actually around inflation and prices. That was the driving factor. But since then, of course, you've had Minneapolis and you've had people being picked up and this sense that you could be picked up just for. We have video because it's all on video now of ICE agents being asked, why are you picking me up?

20:33Katty Kay:And an ICE agent saying, because you sound Spanish, because you're speaking Spanish. I mean, I think that then makes people think, wow, it could be me. I'm an American citizen. I mean, I came here legally, but I could still be rounded up or my friend could be rounded up or my abuela could be rounded up famously, the famous abuelas who are being rounded up. But I do think it's interesting politics. And I think for particularly not just in Texas, but for Republicans in Colorado, for Republicans in Florida, for Republicans in California, for Republicans in New York who are in tight seats, who have Hispanic populations, they've got to be watching this.

21:06Katty Kay:OK, one last thing, because we're going to take a break. But last thing I wanted to say about the Bad Bunny show right at the end. he comes out and he's kind of got this american football i think it says better together or americans together together we're so i can't remember exactly the words look it up guys you'll see it but behind him is this big sign it's a kind of levi's uh funded ad but it's a big sign and the sign says the only thing more powerful than hate is love i think if all of those people at turning points usa would just like to get erica kirk on the phone with bad bunny those two people might actually have something in common because it was Erica Kirk famously who said, Charlie Kirk's funeral, the answer to hate is not hate, it's love and always more love, a quote which I always think was a rather kind of brilliant and very moving political quote.

21:53Katty Kay:Well, actually, I don't know if Bad Bunny was doing that exit sign as a reference to what Erica Kirk was saying, but I spotted the parallels straight away. And I don't really see how the people who are watching at Turning Points USA or refusing to watch it turning points. U of A could have objected to that because it was exactly what Erica herself had suggested. Okay, guys, we're gonna take a quick break, come back and talk about our favorite subject, corruption and national security.

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22:32Katty Kay:Yeah, and moms are always tricky to shop for.

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25:08Katty Kay:Welcome back. We are going to speak about global grift. This is a story that I feel that everybody has really not covered enough. the amount of money that Trump and allies of Trump are making at the moment out of this administration, and also this kind of blurring of national security and finances and whether that undermines national security. And I really wanted to speak to you about this whole subject, David, today and get your take on how the kind of intelligence community is feeling about all of this. But what has prompted us to do this now is that there are a couple of stories, really well reported stories, which I'd recommend people reading, that have actually come out of the Wall Street Journal, who are going after this harder than anybody else.

25:55Katty Kay:One was about Ukraine and President Zelensky saying that Russia and the United States are discussing bilateral economic agreements that are worth approximately$12 trillion in exchange for a deal Zelensky is suggesting that would hamper Ukraine's prospects and favor Russia's prospects. And in return, the Russians will give the Americans a whole load of business deals. I'd actually heard from somebody who is very plugged into the whole Russian business community and the Russian opposition, that he thought it was something like 20 trillion and that quite a lot of this would go directly to Trump and to Trump's allies and family.

26:37Katty Kay:That is not what the Wall Street Journal or Zelensky are suggesting, but clearly there is a kind of a money for land issue going on here. But then there's also this other story which ties into this from the Wall Street Journal, which is about how much money directly Trump family members, the next generation of the Trump family and Trump family acolytes and friends, Steve Whitcoss' son, Zach, are making out of crypto and their business dealings with the Gulf states. And I think that you can kind of bring these two together under the general heading of grift and what this does to American national security.

27:15Katty Kay:What do you make? First of all, I mean, let's kind of separate them a little bit. This Russia deal and what Zelensky is saying is behind actually these negotiations. What are you hearing on that?

27:25David McCloskey:Well, I think, I mean, just to set it up overall, you know, when you take foreign policy classes, right, when you take international relations classes, you think about the interaction between governments as like, driven by a set of national security interests that are assumed to be essentially the public good, right? Or how a set of leaders will perceive the public good. You kind of think about the world of these, you know, sort of the US's relationship with Ukraine and Russia, or our relationship with the Gulf states, you think about it in those lenses. But I actually think what is what you have to do with this administration is think about a family connection with other families and the way that national security policy will enrich or create the potential to enrich particular networks of families and people.

28:17David McCloskey:That is the better lens, I think, to view the way that we are prosecuting national security policy in a lot of different parts of the world. Because if you take a kind of what is the US interest with Russia and Ukraine, you're going to miss the fact that there's a network of people who are conducting that policy, who are quite obviously, and some of the facts that we'll talk about here, I think are quite striking, like, who are driven mostly, not exclusively, but mostly by financial motive. When you hear what Zelensky is saying about this potential deal, right, or you hear what your contact had said, like, I think that is the better lens for thinking about the deal making here truly my understanding is there isn't 12

29:03Katty Kay:trillion you're looking at a gdp of 2 trillion or something so there actually isn't necessarily 12 trillion so i'm not sure who's going to buy this it's being called the dimitrieff package i don't know which negotiators on the u.s side would be naive enough to think that there was 12 trillion coming their way. But one thing I have heard is that the Ukrainians are relieved that Jared Kushner has come on board because they think he is less in that sort of having the wool pulled over his eyes by President Putin and President Putin's tantalizing offers than Steve Wyckoff is. So are you thinking when you say that there are negotiators on the American side who might be driven by material interests rather than by American national security interests.

29:57Katty Kay:Is it Steve Witkoff that you're thinking of?

30:00David McCloskey:The model here across kind of the Trump-Witkoff family has been that the fathers are doing the actual statecraft, right? And the sons are profiting off of the statecraft, right? And I think the deal with the Emirates, with the UAE is instructive on this point because the essential mechanics of it are that prior to, and I think, again, I think it gives us a potential window into how the administration could be thinking about a Russia-Ukraine deal and how you sort of create the opportunity to profit from it. And by the way, in addition, I think the administration is probably hoping that if they can get a deal prior to the midterms, that gives them some political sort of wind in their sails, right?

30:47David McCloskey:So I do think that there is there's a political motivation to the timing as well to see if the Ukrainians can sort of have something crammed down their throats by summertime, so that the administration can count it as a win before the midterms.

31:00Katty Kay:We're kind of lumping the two together, the Ukraine, Russia stuff, and the promise of Russian riches for American businesses. And then this UAE story and the crypto story with these Trump kids and Steve Wyckoff's son, Zach. Are they exactly the same? Because in the Wall Street Journal's reporting on what Zelensky has said about this back channel deal and what I was told in speaking to somebody when we were out of the World Economic Forum, actually, was that this was going to be money for the Trump family as well and Trump family acolytes. But that actually isn't what the Wall Street Journal seems to be saying.

31:37Katty Kay:They're just saying this is for American businesses, which seems to make it a little different, perhaps, than the UAE money.

31:42David McCloskey:It does. Yeah, I think insofar as we have the facts in front of us now, it absolutely is different because we don't have, I think, in the UAE case, we had kind of a quid pro quo. It seems to be, right, that the Trump family got investment from an Emirati royal, And in exchange, the Emirates received essentially the end of restrictions on exporting advanced microchips, right? The timing suggests that that was the essence of the deal. We don't have that, you're right, on the Russia-Ukraine side. We don't have that set of facts yet. But I think given the way that the administration has sort of conducted foreign policy and as sort of a kind of a vector for deal making, right, for the family and the Trump family and its associates, you would have to assume that some similar logic would be guiding a Russia-Ukraine deal.

32:39David McCloskey:And to your point, I mean, there's not 12 trillion, right? That seems impossible, but there could be billions. And because we have, the US has real leverage given the sanctions regime that we've instituted over the Russians, the opportunity for there to be a quid pro quo feels very much in place as you're trying to negotiate an end to the Ukraine conflict. And I think the way if I'm, you know, again, this is where it gets really kind of, I think, to me, psychologically interesting, because I think that the, you know, Trump and his family would say, look, our financial interests and the interests of the US in terms of its foreign policy, I think they would essentially say they're one and the same.

33:17David McCloskey:They're all just, it's all the same. What's good for us is good for the United States and vice versa. And I think you are seeing that at play here in the Russia-Ukraine deal.

33:26Katty Kay:So I should do something I don't often do, which is channel my inner Caroline Levitt. It's worth making the point because the Wall Street Journal did ask the White House. And of course, the White House's line on all of this is always the same. The Trump administration has said that the companies run by the children operate completely independently from their fathers. There are no conflicts of interest, a White House spokeswoman said, adding that President Trump only acts in the best interest of the American public. Now, I think if you're president, I mean, yes, I get the argument that a president is meant to be absent from the process of business deals that might impact their decisions about national security issues, but their children and their families are free to do.

34:12Katty Kay:this is America, and if you are the child of a president, you are free to make money however you want to make money. It's hard for me to believe that President Trump isn't sitting there pleased, at least, that his children are making literally billions of dollars in the course of the last two years. But I think what you are saying is right, is that in the president's mind and in the administration's mind, business of this sort is good for America writ large. And it was interesting, You know, when they did the hostage swap after the recent Gaza deal, Donald Trump kind of made a point of letting it be known that he was bringing Jared Kushner in because Jared Kushner had these business relationships with the Gulf states and therefore could exercise leverage in a way that regular wipe that Marco Rubio couldn't because Marco Rubio has been a Senate for ages.

35:05Katty Kay:He has not been flying around the Gulf in private planes, schmoozing Gulf Arab states and making money with them. And I guess that's their argument is that this old fashioned way of thinking of doing things. I mean, Trump loves the idea that he's blown up the political model and that this is an old way of thinking things, that only the people who are in government, Senate confirmed, the staffers can actually do this kind of deal. What he would say is, actually, you have a much better chance of doing deals, particularly in areas of the world like the Middle East, where things are done on a rather sort of feudal system and a relationship-to-relationship system if you've been in business and you have relationships with these people.

35:43Katty Kay:But would your friends in the intelligence community be having a few anxious moments about this?

35:49David McCloskey:Yeah, I would think so. Because I think you can agree with the idea that using business colleagues, contacts, people who are heavily networked commercially in particular parts of the world, you could make the argument that yes, in some cases, using those kinds of people in foreign policy dealings, in negotiations, makes sense. But it also, it does not follow that those people and their families have to be personally enriched by the deals that you were doing while you were in office. I mean, I think this is another, you know, sort of discrepancy here between or kind of a departure with tradition in the U.S.

36:32David McCloskey:system is normally this kind of commercial activity on the part of people with this type of foreign policy experience would happen either before they came into office or after. I think, frankly, I mean, this would have made any previous U.S. administration of recent memory sort of blush in how brazen and open it is, right?

36:51Katty Kay:There's zero apology for this. No. There doesn't seem to be any embarrassment about it.

36:55David McCloskey:Trump has said himself, nobody cares. So, we're just going to keep doing it. And this is exactly how, so when I was a young CIA analyst working on Syria, these kind of arrangements where you would have a family and you might have one or two brothers who were actually in the military and security services, and then another one who's outside, who's doing the financial stuff. that was a very common system. And it was understood that it was family money and the families internally had their own way of sort of earmarking it. You'd have someone who was involved in the statecraft and someone who's involved in the commercial side.

37:36David McCloskey:The commercial person's making money. The people on the statecraft side are protecting their interests from the state in some cases because there's really predatory institutions and then using the state, manipulating it and the networks inside of it to make money for the family. Like it's a classic model. And anyone who thinks that somehow, you know, Trump and the elder Whitcoff don't have an understanding of what's happening and are not engaged in the commercial side of this in some way, shape or form, I think you'd have to be a lunatic to think that that's correct.

38:09Katty Kay:How would we know if the money had impacted US national security policy in a way that harmed America? Would we ever be able to connect those dots?

38:23David McCloskey:I think they'd be really hard to connect. Let's take the deal with the Emirates, right, for those microchips, most of which I believe are manufactured by NVIDIA. And the concern is that those chips would end up in Chinese hands. Presumably, maybe down the line, someone inside the intelligence community somewhere could be able to draw a line between that deal and sort of a source of leakage into the Chinese market from those chips that originated from the Emirates potentially. But a lot of the reason it's so, I think it can be hard to talk about this and hard for a lot of people to conceptualize what's going on is that oftentimes if you read the Wall Street Journal reporting about that deal, it's kind of confusing.

39:07David McCloskey:You have to read things a few times to understand what's actually happened. And then there's this other problem. I mean, one example I'll give is on the Trump organizations, even though crypto is a massive amount of its income now. And I actually think before the Trump administration came into office, they were making about 50 mil in income per year inside the Trump organization. Now it's up to like, I think in the first half of last year, it might've been north of 800 plus million. And most of that's from the crypto, right? So it's a massive, massive increase. The licensing deals are still part of the overall pot.

39:42David McCloskey:And there's one example here where the Trump administration agreed to lower its threatened tariffs on Vietnam a month after a Trump organization project broke ground on a massive multibillion dollar golf complex outside of Hanoi. So, so like, it's you couldn't so in that case, you'd be like, well, maybe the tariffs weren't a good idea anyway. Right, right. So maybe it's fine, but that's sort of another clear example of we're going to use the levers of state in a negotiation that is going to directly, you know, enrich us. I mean, another great example from the crypto grift, which I think is endlessly fascinating, is this, and I'm not sure if you guys had covered this one, but there was a dinner last May for the largest meme coin buyers.

40:31Katty Kay:Out in Virginia.

40:31David McCloskey:That's right. And the top spender was a Chinese crypto billionaire who had bought more than 20 mil worth of those meme coins. And then a few weeks after Trump takes office, the SEC suspends a fraud, a civil fraud case it had brought against him. So, you know, I'd probably say that's not in the interest of the American people, but very much in the interest of the Trump organization.

40:54Katty Kay:And it is hard to connect the dots. And there is no proof of wrongdoing. You cannot say that these chips were given to the UAE because of money that was given from the UAE into the Trump organization's coffers. So that is also making this a harder story to report on. But the direct tie has not been proven, but there are an awful lot of people, including the Democrats after the midterm elections, who are going to be asking questions about whether there was a quid pro quo here. All I'm going to say is let's flip it. If I'm a Chinese crypto guy paying 20 million or I'm a UAE royal shake to noon paying 500 million into some Trump family crypto deal, I'm going to be kind of pissed off if I don't get anything in return.

41:48Katty Kay:You would be pissed off. I just think that was a very bad investment. So these people are smart. They're business people. They're making these business investments for a reason. It may not be easy for us to tie the direct connect the direct dots of the quid pro quo. But I think you'd have to be pretty naive about the way politics and money work, not to think there was some kind of quid pro quo going on.

42:11David McCloskey:Yeah, that's right.

42:12Katty Kay:Kudos to the Wall Street Journal for reporting this because it is complicated, which I think is partly why, as Donald Trump says, nobody cares because crypto is inherently complicated and these financial dealings are inherently complicated, which I think makes it even harder for journalists to tell the stories.

42:27David McCloskey:And I'll say just on that point, and on the kind of murky sort of classified end of things, I mean, I've heard from former agency contacts who have who have been involved in helping some of these sort of family associated entities do deals, even much smaller deals overseas, like in the Middle East, where I think it's it is what we have just talked about, I think, is the tip of the iceberg. There is so much more going on that just hasn't been reported and or, you know, can't be reported because it really is just I think it is a massive story that really more people should be paying attention to because it's happening all around us.

43:06Katty Kay:I agree. I think it's one of the biggest stories of this administration. I think if the Democrats win the midterms, we will hear more about it. But it's complicated and therefore hard to keep the public's attention. David McCloskey, thank you very much. our new co-host of the Rest Dispologics US for this week. Don't panic, Anthony. I know Anthony's terribly thin-skinned, so don't worry, Anthony. Can't wait to have you back later this week. But David, thank you. Honestly, that was great. It was really lovely to have the program. And of course, if anyone wants more of David with his co-host Gordon Carrera's excellent reporting into the murky world of secrets and spies, it's all there on The Rest is Classified.

43:46Katty Kay:and congratulations, by the way, on your book, The Seventh Floor. I'm going to confess I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but I've heard so many people have recommended it to me. So I will get to it. I'm waiting for the signed copy, actually.

43:58David McCloskey:Oh, that's true. Okay. I will rectify that. I will rectify that immediately. And, you know, maybe see you next week because I have no intention of turning over Anthony's chair.

44:08Katty Kay:No, well, once you, you know, nine tenths of, you know, whatever it is, possession is nine tenths of the law. So there you go. You're in the seat right now.

44:14David McCloskey:That's right.

44:15Katty Kay:Thanks very much for joining us, David. And thanks, guys, for listening. We'll be back later with more of your questions. And we'll have more with David's going to answer some of your questions for our founding members. If you'd like to become a founding member, you know it. Find us. The rest is politicsus.com. And this week, you'll have David McCloskey answer great questions, too. So that'll be fun.

44:32David McCloskey:Thanks, Katty. This was a lot of fun.

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