‘13 Going on 30’ With Bill Simmons and Juliet Litman

20:47Bill Simmons:She's only in it for a couple episodes though, right? She's in it for three. She's in it in the first season for two, and then she comes back at the very end for a third. She met her first husband, Scott Foley, on the set when she was in season one. So it's sort of like part of the lore. but then I was obsessed with Catch Me If You Can when it came out and she has a great cameo in that. So, you know, I personally brought a lot of baggage of Jennifer Garner to the movie. It was like so happy for her to get this role. Is this the first time you really saw her though? It must have been. Yeah, I was looking back at the IMDb.

21:18Bill Simmons:She basically lost her entire 20s to bad shows and movies and things that almost made it but didn't. Like she was in a show in 1998 called Significant Others on Fox. Right. And it was about a bunch of 20-somethings that live in L.A. and they're friends. And I actually probably would have watched that show. Definitely, yeah. I like shows like that. I don't even remember. Maybe I watched it and don't even remember it. So that show, Bomb, that lasted five episodes. Then she was Jennifer Love Hewitt's best friend in Time of Your Life on Fox, where they spun Jennifer Love Hewitt off. She moves to New York to find her birth mother.

21:55Yes.

21:56Bill Simmons:And I actually did watch a couple episodes of that show because I like Jennifer Love Hewitt. And we both love Party of Five. And we love Party of Five. I've had to support the franchise. But that show somehow lasted 18 episodes. I don't remember any of them. It's crazy. I think I watched all 18, but I might be the only person. Felicity, three episodes. And then in 01, Alias finally happens. But she was toiling away there for eight years. She was a hostess at a New York City restaurant at one point. There's a famous story where she babysat for Stephen Colbert's kids. It's crazy. So she bounced around a little bit from an IMDb standpoint.

22:32Bill Simmons:Alias happened. When we launched Jimmy Kimmel's show, it's so funny thinking back to this, but the first year of Jimmy Kimmel's show, he's on ABC. Alias is taking off on ABC. And he did this whole running bit about how he was in love with Jennifer Garner. And she came on and he did this whole, like he was like a schoolboy who had a crush on her, like an ABC crush. and that's how long ago that she hit. But Alias was the thing. Oh, big time. It started in 01. There's like a lot of stories about how J.J. Abrams would go between the Felicity set and the Alias set. They're right next to each other on the same lot.

23:10And she then did that for five seasons. One of my favorite things about Jennifer Garner is like she stays close with the coworkers, co-stars. And like she still -

23:19Bill Simmons:Yeah, you always judge that. You like when the celebrities don't stay close with the coworkers, as you notice. Julia Police is weighing in with reports. Absolutely. And she is one of the reasons I love her. She's, I think, Victor Garber, I think, officiated her wedding with Ben Affleck. Yeah. They're still really close. She was recently at Mark Ruffalo's Hollywood Walk of Fame star ceremony. She gave a speech. She's still really close with Bradley Cooper. Like, she helped him out with, like, Leonard Cohen press when he was doing that just to, like, I don't know, she, like, moderated some 57-minute talk in a theater that I watched all of for some reason, because I love her on YouTube.

23:56I wasn't even there. And she's still really close with Judy Greer, who she just reunited with. And of course, one of my favorite TV shows of the year, Five Star Weekend. So, you know, like it's amazing how much -

24:08Bill Simmons:An abomination of a show. But an absolutely great time. Come on. My wife devoured it with a fork and a knife and A1 sauce. Just absolutely devoured it. I was just there making jokes all the time. I was anticipating it for about 14 months. So when it finally arrived, I was ready. And I had the time of my life. I had a great time. Like, I just, a lot of innitical things. But anyway, check it out. Jennifer Garner, a celebrity chef. Right? Celebrity chef. She's like an Instagram chef. She's not even a celebrity chef. Who somehow has like a$45 million house in Nantucket. And invites all these women that she's friends with and maybe not friends with to her$45 million house.

24:49Bill Simmons:Yes. plans the whole weekend in the most anal A-type way possible. And then shenanigans happen. Like, barely. Like, they just sort of, like, go... Like, not much happens is sort of the point. It just turns out there's a lot of, like, lies to expose. Well, spoiler, her husband dies, and one of the ladies that comes to the weekend is the lady he was having an affair with that she finds out about that weekend. And they met a lot. But they all figured it out. Yeah. It's a fan. She invites a fan to her home on Nantucket where like you need a ferry to get off. So if there's something goes awry, it's like hard to part.

25:25You know what I'm never doing?

25:27Bill Simmons:Inviting a fan to a vacation. I was just going to say, would you ever do that? I don't see that happening. Also, her husband was Josh Hamilton, my guy from Kicking and Screaming. I hated to see him have a texting accident. What about Chloe 70 as a townie? I mean, no one has ever been less of a townie than Chloe 70. It was really, it was tough. anyway Jennifer Gardner what I wanted to say what's crazy to think about she's doing you know 22 episodes a year of of Alias and then in her summer break she's shooting a movie every year that's like that's a lot of work that's like very hard driven and she's married yeah she does Catch Me If You Can in 2002 Daredevil where she reconnects with Ben Affleck who she'd already been on Pearl Harbor with she's in Alias 13 going on 30 Mary starts dating Ben Affleck right around there.

26:18Bill Simmons:The movie career, the best movie she ever made, other than this one, Juno. She's the female lead in Dallas Buyers Club, which was respected. And I don't think Danny Collins would be the other one. I really like Danny Collins. Okay, interesting. Yeah, I think this is by far her biggest credit. I think Juno, it's an interesting life for that movie. You know, it's like, it made a big impression when it came out. Culturally mattered for a year. a year or two and hasn't held up in the same way also I think it's part of the Bateman renaissance like around the same time as like Arrested Development and stuff like but it just like doesn't really get acknowledged and I think people have like a lot of flaws with it but it was sort of like a turning point for her because she was not not likable in that movie like and she's just sort of it was like it's kind of like the darker character of that movie yeah I don't like dark Jennifer Garner me neither and I don't she did that in Peppermint too which is basically taking her John Wick for a female who loses her child I can't even remember the plot, but she's, it's like an action movie and it's just, I don't want, I want, I want happy Jennifer Garner.

27:20Yeah. It's not her. Like that's not actually her personality. And I think that one of the reasons she's so charming in this, and she has said this in many interviews is that like Jenna Rink is similar to her personality. And so she could like really connect with the character and that obviously comes through.

27:36Bill Simmons:We should also mention the, the Affleck relationship coming off Bennifer, where he was in a relationship that was so famous and so gigantic that it actually got a nickname. I think that might have been the first one to get the nickname. Really? I got to think about that. I feel like it beat Brangelina by a year. I don't remember a relationship nicknames. I just want to say that I read a 2017 interview where Ben Affleck says he and Jennifer Garner fell in love on the set of Elektra. So I don't think we even have to dance around. I mean, Daredevil. We don't even have to dance around it In 2002 Oh, sorry He said Well, they shot it in 2002 And Oh He said that's when they fell in love So I know But he was with J-Lo at the time Okay So It's all a little fuzzy You know, there was Scott Foley There was Michael Bartan And then So she had Scott Foley Then broke up with Scott Foley Divorced him Started dating Michael Bartan And then there was an Affleck overlap That's correct Okay Can I read you something really funny You know what, Juliet?

28:37Bill Simmons:it actors just fall for each other they're on the set close quarters they're making out they're supposed to have sparks and connections yeah it's insane to think that you wouldn't like if you are trying to play a part as best you can wouldn't you like fall in love with the person who's also doing that opposite you like on these long days i i think it's completely understandable i felt this way about craig a bunch of times on the rewatchable it's like we spent so much time together and he's a handsome guy you know it's very understandable um mark ruffalo did you get all your jennifer garner takes out or do you have any more you have more in the holster yeah you know i'm sure we'll get to them i just think that she's electric i love her and i think we'll talk about in her performance through the categories and stuff i i just think that she should have had a better career and i think part of that is because she like has been very open about choosing family.

29:28Because right after this movie comes out, their first daughter is born shortly thereafter.

29:32Bill Simmons:So I was going to say that I think she's two, three movies short, but I agree with you. But I think it was 100 % the family thing. She just became a mom. She started raising kids and stopped working as much. Yeah, she was just like, I'm doing one movie a year when it fits in. She and Ben Affleck used to talk about how they would never film at the same time, the family-owned move for each other's projects. So that's her choice. And I think that she seems like a pretty happy, fulfilled person. So I think it was the right move for her. but as a fan, I think she could have been more Reese level and I don't think she's quite there.

29:59Bill Simmons:The frustrating thing when you look back at the IMDb, she just didn't get the chances till later. Yeah. Like her 20s, it probably should have happened. Like she could have easily been on Party of Five in 1995 or one of those shows or she could have joined the cast in that 0-2-0 in season six. Yeah. Yeah. And then gotten the chops to start making movies from there. Imagine her as Valerie. What a life that would have been. Valerie, she could have been a good Claire. Oh, interesting. Okay. I love Claire. One of my faves. You like Claire. I've always loved her. Yeah. Claire hated her 90210 experience.

30:33Bill Simmons:She basically talks about it like she went to go serve in Vietnam for four years. Jenny Garth really sounds like she was an absolute nightmare. I think she was hard to be around. And I think Shannon Doherty was tough too, but she left. So it's fine. Mark Ruffalo. Yes. Hits the scene a little. Another one who's a little bit of a late bloomer. Hits the scene in 2000 with You Can Count On Me, which is an extraordinary movie that we're going to do on the rewatchables at some point. Okay. his IMDb is awesome from that point on it is like the choices that he makes is so much fun he's in the last castle with Redford he's in a movie called xxxy which I cannot recommend highly enough from a to be like just just throw it on it's one of those it's it's there's a million of these but this one I think is really good and your girl Claire's in it oh my god Kathleen robertson i gotta go home and do that okay i am i'm a huge xxxy fan i would own it on 4k blu-ray if it existed in the cut with meg ryan really weird movie we don't live here anymore which i recently watched two months ago with laura dern and peter krause is in it and uh who's the other one naomi watts it's like a weird couples might like each other uh they they just film it in the middle of nowhere i vaguely remember this movie then he's in internal sunshine shine and then in 04 he does 13 going on 30 and collateral he's filming at the same time unbelievable it's incredible i was gonna say is that a rewatchables category the strangest two movies somebody filmed at the same time he's filming this and going back and forth with collateral that's incredible that's also like um like collateral such an amazing la movie and 13 going on 30 great new york movie it's very different mindset and also 2004 in particular it's like just could be more different um that's amazing kudos to him i have this written down tell me if i'm right or wrong most overqualified rom-com lead since tom hanks too good of an actor to be in this which is why he's good at this yeah i mean you can tell that he's like disdainful even though he seems to like jennifer garner um like in person but you can throughout the movie he's just like i don't want to be here uh it does have a feeling of like i I can't believe my agent talked me into this.

32:47Yeah. He views it the way people used to view TV. Like, I can't believe I'm doing this television show to get, you know, into a movie. I guess that's right.

32:56Bill Simmons:It's weird because later in his career, Mark Ruffalo would never have disdain for something that would become so obvious publicly. He would never have strong opinions that people were aware of. Yeah, I think that might be right. I mean, I'm just trying to think of all the other ones in history. Like, I think you could maybe put Ryan Gosling in that category, but he wasn't in that many rom-coms. Ruffalo's a better actor than Reynolds. Yeah, like Billy Crystal. Ruffalo's probably, like, Ruffalo's the lead in task. You know, he's done, like, real shit. Yeah, I think that he's, like, Tom Hanks is really the only other one in the conversation.

33:30You're right.

33:30Bill Simmons:Well, this story, this is Steven Seagal shitting on himself a word, whatever we call that one, for craziest anecdote from the filming. Ruffalo almost left the project during the rehearsals of the thriller scene because he hated the rehearsal process and the choreography so much. And he literally almost left. They had to like talk him into staying into the movie as they're rehearsing Thriller with them because he was so horrified by it. That's like, what I find really funny about that is he got his chops on Broadway, right? Like in plays. And you would think that someone like in the theater scene would be a little bit more respectful of like grand choreography.

34:07But I now know he's not a musicals guy. Theater only. Serious plays. So noted. By the way, it's obvious in the scene.

34:17Bill Simmons:It's a mail-in by him. But I think that's one of the reasons it's so much fun. They also cut out a scene later in the movie when he screams at Jenna, they knew about Sparkle Magazine! They knew and you cut those photos loose! That got cut out. If they had left it in, you would have been done this movie on the rewatchables already. Where do you stand on is Mark Ruffalo, how handsome he is? Because my wife has always absolutely loved him. Oh, interesting. I think young Mark Gruffalo had a real, like, too cool for school charm. He's never really been for me. I like a prettier, more, like, kind of conventionally handsome rom-com lead.

34:53But I see it. Like, I get that that's a type. Also, there's something about him that's, like, imperfect that is refreshing. Especially with his teeth and stuff, which he's never changed.

35:01Bill Simmons:Doing a good job of holding back here. Judy Greer's 2000s. Her Mount Rommore. Wedding planner, 13 going on 30. 27 Dresses and Love Happens. She's basically the Robert Horry of rom-coms. It's amazing. And somebody that you personally absolutely love and adore. Love. Yeah, absolutely love. My favorite Judy Greer performance, this is really random, Descendants with George Clooney. She's really fucking good in that movie. Really good in that. I agree. So fantastic. I thought you were going to say that terrible peacock show where she plays the bitch. Five Star Weekend? Yeah, Five Star Weekend. She's a lecturer, okay.

35:39Bill Simmons:She basically plays Lucy Tom Tom 20 years later. The funny thing about Judy Greer is she is in so many things. And it's those four movies that you listed is what she is known for. I think because she's so good at it. Like in the two, the wedding planner and 13 going on 30 were back to back, I think in back to back years as well. And, and hilariously enough, it's with JLo and Jennifer Garner in consecutive movies. And it's so funny how like in this era, they're linked in many ways. Yeah. And she's just great at it. She's also, you know, I think the wedding planner role is so different. She's like this baddie, nervous assistant.

36:16And then she's like this bitch in 13 going on 30. I actually think she's played more mean people than like the wedding planner character, but she's so much better known for being like the likable best friend or whatever. And it's just actually kind of a disservice to her because she is much more than that. She seems like she actually is like a pretty great actress.

36:36Bill Simmons:Yeah, she is the two moves, the super sweet friend or the, I thought you were sweet, but you're actually a horror show. And those are like the two types of characters she plays. Well, Catherine Han in 2003 to 2010 was in How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days, Win a Date with Tad Hamilton, A Lot Like Love, The Holiday, and How Do You Know. It's really them in the finals for Mount Romo. I think it's Catherine Han, just based on credit for credit. I think those movies, she's more impactful. honestly like I think Judy Greer is really good but like Catherine Han also just sort of makes each of those her own and also Catherine Han was really able to like rise above that image of her I mean think about her career since whereas Judy Greer is still known as like the rom-com friend a lot like love a movie I've seen way too many times that appeared on my 50 most rewatchables of the 21st century to a lot of people's horror because my wife watches it all the time and talk about rising above oh my god She's pregnant at one point in that movie.

37:36Bill Simmons:It's insane. Just carrying shit. Then we have Andy Serkis is in this movie too, a.k.a. Gollum, playing the magazine editor. Where do you stand on Andy Serkis? Well, the craziest thing is that this is after Lord of the Rings. All three of the movies are out, and he's back playing himself, as himself, embodied, playing this guy. I don't mind him. I think the more you watch it, the better his performance seems. Because there's just funny moments that he lands. Like when he says like his, he's like said his balls are being squished or whatever. It's actually like really funny at first. Sort of like, is this the right movie for that?

38:11But the more I watched it, I was like, oh, actually this is kind of like, it's like connective tissue for the movie. It actually works really well. So I'm in.

38:18Bill Simmons:He's basically doing the Martin Shorten father of the bride, completely over the top. Bronk. Sidekick character. And then Poise magazine. Poise. Yes. Okay. What's going on here? So our friend Wesley, who reviewed this for the Boston Globe, we'll get to that later. called Poise a Photoshop mix of Cosmo, Jane, and Lucky. Yeah, it's like a Cosmo versus glamour kind of thing. Would you have bought Poise? Would you have subscribed to Poise in 2004? No. In 2004, I subscribed to People, Us, and InTouch. I was already more on the celebrity paparazzi side and not on the women's magazine side of things.

38:58Bill Simmons:So this wasn't like a YM? No, and I think that YM is... It's an adult version of the YM basically. So yeah, Lucky is I think a good parallel. Yeah. And like, yeah, like a lore a little bit too, which is more makeup driven. But like, yeah, I think it's more like that. And YM in 17, of course, you famously wrote for YM. So. Guy needs to cash a check. I think that those are more for like the middle school years. Like when you were 17. Poise. Poise. We're going to take a break. We're going to come back and talk about the actual real star of this movie, the music right after this. This episode is brought to you by angry orchard, hard cider.

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40:48Bill Simmons:So, this movie is advertised as Jennifer Garner being the star of 13 Going Out 30, but it's actually the music. This is one of the best soundtracks ever in a movie. They have the Go-Go's with Head Over Heels twice. Jessie's Girl. Thriller. Not just Thriller, but the entire Thriller song. Burning Down the House, Talking Heads. Madonna Crazy for You. Whitney Houston, I Want to Dance with Somebody. A What I Like About You cover. It's not the original one, but it's a cover. Pretty Good Day. So I get a little more modern in there. Vanilla Ice, Ice Ice Baby. Vienna by Billy Joel. Liz Phair, Why Can't I?

41:25Bill Simmons:Which is a great song. Oh my God. So it is so important to my teenage years. And then Love is a Battlefield by Pat Benatar with a callback at the end. This was probably half the budget of the movie. Home run. It's so good. Great job, guys. It's incredible. Also, the Liz Phair song is used twice, which also meant a lot to me. We can come back to that a little bit, but it's an amazing soundtrack. And as I was watching, I did wonder, like, how did they get all these songs cleared? It's amazing. I think they probably skimped out on the Alex Carlson character. I have a lot to say about him. Somebody making$15 an hour and used that money toward the music.

42:05Bill Simmons:I actually think this was a choice. I think they thought we're going to spend a few million dollars on the music because it's a huge part of this movie. And they didn't skimp on any part. Every song's a banger. Every song's famous. and then when you think about 2004 they do a good job of the nostalgia it's like about 20 years after a lot of these songs hit combined with some of the newer stuff and it's honestly a tour de force I can't believe how good they did with that it also just feels like this era I feel like this was more common you watch a lot of movies in the late 90s early aughts there was just a lot of huge pop songs that were incorporated into the movies and even like referenced the same way she references some lyrics from these songs I feel like now I don't know if like Like the record labels have gotten smarter and it's just too expensive to license, but you don't see that as much now.

42:52Can I posit that's like the MTV effect? I think that like music -

42:57Bill Simmons:Last era of MTV. Yeah. Music was seen as like a, like a music videos were seen as such a powerful vehicle. And like, you know, they used to get like the movie edit with the song or whatever. Like for me, the definition of this is Secret Garden by Bruce Springsteen because that version with like the movie talking with Jerry Maguire on the radio. So this break is a breakup. Like that's in the middle of the song. And so I think that there was actually a lot more commercial value to be had for the music by being in the movies. And like you could go back and buy the records and give it a second life when you couldn't just get the song on Spotify right away, essentially.

43:34So it actually was like smart for some of these songs.

43:36Bill Simmons:Well, my beloved A Lot Like Love has one of the best soundtracks of that entire decade. And it's more new stuff. Yeah. But it's got that. What's that song? I never fell in love before. What a feeling. I forget the name. Whatever that one is. I know exactly what you mean. You know that song. It's like three different points of the movie they play. Right. Also happening at this time is the OC. Brighter than Sunshine. Oh, yeah. Well, also happening at this time on TV is the OC. And the OC had the power to break a band. Like Death Cab became big the year before. So I think there was just like in this exact moment, it was kind of short-lived.

44:13of TV and movies could make a difference in music.

44:15Bill Simmons:That was a big thing for Josh Schwartz. Yeah. Because I think he always felt like 90210 never totally leaned into that. There was a couple, like they had the Sundays on once. Of course. But for the most part, never really used, like they had the Peach Pit After Dark for years and never leaned into the music part. And the OC that second year, he had the Walkman. He had a whole bunch of big ones. During like a really good time for music too. Remember when the Jim Blossoms were on the boat for Steve Sanders' birthday on the yacht? Dude, I remember. A great Claire episode, if I recall correctly. Well, that had Steve Sanders' 21st birthday when he was 38 in real life.

44:53Bill Simmons:One of the great moments ever. Steve, can't wait for 21. He's got like a receding hairline. So good. This movie was written by Kathy Jespa and Josh Goldsmith and directed by Gary Winnick, who is no longer with us. $37 million budget made$96 million. Roger Ebert, not impressed, two stars. He said, Jennifer Garner is indeed a charmer, but she's the victim of a charmless treatment in 13 going on 30. I got to say Raj made some decent points. Okay, let's hear him. He couldn't buy the world of the magazine office was one of his big things. He didn't understand why high-powered professionals don't seem to notice they're dealing with a 13-year-old mind.

45:34Bill Simmons:Jenna's bright idea to redesign the magazine is so spectacularly bad that it's accepted. and there are so many emotional and sexual puzzles to dap dance around. This should have been a musical. He liked Garner. I think that's why I got two stars out of him. Wesley Morris. Okay. A young whippersnapper at this point for the Boston Globe writes, a contagious but dopey first star vehicle for TV's Jennifer Garner. The movie is tailor-made for women who openly lust for dream houses, dream jobs, and dream hubbies. Sounds like Juliet. Does the movie's heroine get what she wants? And do you feel good about it?

46:09Bill Simmons:Yes, and sort of. That is so Wesley. That is just the most Wesley. Here's the thing. If we asked Wesley now, he would say this is one of his favorite movies of the last 25 years. Yeah. Because I think that's what this, this is, he would love this movie. Like, he would have been on this podcast if we asked him. So, definitely, yeah. Maybe next time we do it. I think that review also, like, it is dopey. But that's one of the reasons why it's fun. Like, movies and things can be dopey. And you can love them. Like there's actually a lot of like joy in that and it doesn't have to be serious. And like, you can just have fun with it.

46:40And the movie encourages you to just go with it and be like, you know, Roger Ebert made some great points about the logic. That is correct. Doesn't really exactly make sense, but that's just part of the genre. And you just sort of accept it as like table setting and move forward. I did agree with his point about The Office in particular. I was like, is this the set from Working Girl? It looks very similar to like when they walk in and everything. It's like just so generic. It doesn't really draw you into that world, but that's okay. The magazine stuff isn't exactly nailed, but that's fine.

47:10Bill Simmons:What was the Netflix rom-com when they basically was built after Grantland? Set it up. Yeah. When they had their version of Grantland and it was like the nicest office possible. It was so funny. Not like our office at all. It was very airy. Glenn Powell had like beautiful light on him. That movie's pretty good. Yeah, it was good. Thanks, Craig. They openly admitted they based it on Grantland. I like that movie too that's a classic movie where you just never know if your two lead actors have chemistry it can go a long way and one of them has really taken off and one is Zoe Deutsch by the way Zoe Deutsch probably like in the last 10 years has probably made more rom-coms that people have heard of than any other actress right?

47:52Bill Simmons:yeah at least nine I think all on the strength of set it up like everyone's just like wait because that was a big hit like that was sort of a standout for Netflix like it was like 10 years ago already and I think just like looking for the next one. I mean, you know, Netflix hovers over all the conversations of rom-coms because there are so many. And I like to watch all of them. Always Be My Maybe with Ali Wong is really good. Like some of them are great. And, but it's just sort of like, you know, and Amazon's doing a bunch of TV shows now too. Like they have seized... They're doing the more YA stuff.

48:22Yeah, the tropes. We haven't even talked about Sterling Point, but they've seized all of the tropes of these movies. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. but like it just I support the strategy of like just throwing out a million and seeing what lands because they're all kind of fun and once in a while they are great like did you ever watch Marry Me on Peacock with J.Lo and Owen Wilson?

48:44Bill Simmons:Who are you talking to? I love that movie. Am I the only one? Maybe. But like I will watch all of them and like sometimes they stick. Now there's another person who loves that movie. My wife, Gary Simmons. That's how I watch it. She watched it multiple times. The music in it? She really liked it. J.Lo is really good at singing in that movie. Her songs are great. Not only did she really like it, she was like, J-Lo's back. Yes, I felt the same way. Yeah, Netflix in the last eight, nine years, because their algorithm was obviously telling them people love rom-coms and horror movies, and they just started cranking them out.

49:19Bill Simmons:And they're hit or miss, especially the rom-coms. There's also like, there's the Hallmark rom-coms, like the holiday era ones. Yeah, there's like - There's a bunch of them now. And then there's like Letters to Isabel. Yeah. Like things like that. But I watch all of them. And then there's like that Zoe Saldana show on Netflix. That was pretty popular too. Like, I forget the name of it. I'll look it up in a second. But, you know, these are all like feel good moments. And sometimes they're good. And sometimes they're like actually high quality. And sometimes they're not. But like, I'm here for all of it.

49:49It's a good strategy.

49:50Bill Simmons:You know what your algorithm probably likes? What? Is like these teen rom-com-y type movies, but somebody's either dying of cancer or have already died. and it's like I have to bring my friend's ashes to every, it feels like they've done every variation of those, right? My best friend from when I was growing up, she's either about to die or she already died or she's coming back or she dies during the movie or it's men and it's like the high school quarterback and he loses the, they love those. Totally. Some sort of tragedy early. It's kind of like the my girlification of teen movies because like that, it's very similar.

50:29when Macaulay Culgan dies. And The Fall of My Stars was huge. I loved that movie. It was a young Shailene Woodley and that's a cancer movie. But yeah, that had a whole year too. She shook her head for that one. 2009, 2010. I know, she gets after what she wants, I guess. That's what we've learned recently.

50:47Bill Simmons:Shailene is in the Unabomber movie. You know. Trying to take down the Unabomber. And it's not Aaron Rodgers. It's the actual Unabomber. Ted K. Yeah, I think about him often. The Unabomber, I learned, you know, you learn about like, something really bad at a young age and you never forget it. So that's the Unabomber for me. I mean, even the Will Ferrell SNL sketches couldn't... Incredible. Couldn't try to help him not be creepy. All right, most rewatchable scenes. Okay. Have a bunch of them, including... We'll start with the big party at Jenna's where the six chicks show up. Sure. One of the great gimmicks.

51:22Bill Simmons:Did you have a six chicks in high school or a version of that or no? Yes. So when I was in high school, there was a group that called themselves the A Squad. and I was not in it. I was in the B team. So yes, the six chicks, A squad, it's all the same. Because you're smart, you got along with them. Totally. You got along with everybody. Yeah. The A squad, that's so snotty. Like who does that? It's pretty incredible. It's like so on the nose that it's like funny to tell people about. But yes, it was real at the Bronx High School of Science. When I was in college, the people that were like that, we would derisively call them BPs for beautiful people.

52:00And then some of them actually like kind of owned it.

52:03Bill Simmons:And we're like, we're the BPs. And it's like, no, no, we're making fun of the fact that, yeah. Jenna being mean to beaver hurts my feelings. Seven minutes of heaven, I think has been banned in 50 States now in 2026. Back then made sense. And she wants to be 30 and flirty and thriving. I think I was going to do this. What's the best? I'll do it now. Tom, Tom becoming Judy Greer, one of the best teen to adult casting of two different people that I can remember. Interesting. You know, Judy Greer doesn't agree with that. Like, I guess people brought that up with her frequently. And she was like...

52:40Bill Simmons:Oh, I think that girl looks like her. You don't think so? No, I do. Judy Greer would like never acknowledge it, which is sort of funny. Oh, maybe she doesn't like it. I think the Jennifer Garner teen as well looks just like her. I thought she's great. Yes. Perfect casting. I think she looks like Hilary Swank, that young woman, but... I couldn't agree more. It's close. It's not bad. I respectfully disagree. Oh, it's pretty good. I mean, on the scale of like, you can be way off with stuff like that. I thought it was pretty solid. Well, especially they set up the nose job thing later. So I guess, yeah, I guess.

53:08Yeah, but all I saw was Hilary Swank and that just was frightening.

53:12Bill Simmons:Well, we almost saw Hilary Swank in this movie. She was in the casting with Ifs. Crazy. Next one is Jenna wakes up and she's 30. The cell phone thing is really funny. Really funny. It's like the perfect time in 04 to be like, what's that noise? Not knowing what a cell phone is. the whole like checking out her body, waking up with the hockey player. And then Lucy, I'm Jenna Rink, big time magazine editor. They go into the office. That whole part's great. It's great. Yes. I love that scene. I think that's also like when Jenna, it's almost like Jennifer Garner's like mission statement. She nails the physical aspect of it and the facial expression so well.

53:51I think it recalls Tom Hanks and Big a lot. Like it's impossible to not think about when he first wakes up too. and it's kind of like reassuring like, oh, she can do this movie. Like, it's going to be good.

54:01Bill Simmons:By the way, she looks great. She's beautiful. I think she still looks great. Great outfit. Yeah. Yeah. And gets into the office for the M &M, blah, blah, blah. And she's like, clean or peanut? Has no idea M &M is. That was so funny. Next thing she goes see Ruffalo when he's like doing his Ruffalo on the side of his mouth. We're not friends anymore, Jenna. Yeah. Um, that whole part's really interesting how I, I, I like, these are, these are where you really have to suspend belief with movies like this because your reaction to this in real life would be, you've taken fentanyl. Well, he said that.

54:40Did you go into K-hole? He said that.

54:42Bill Simmons:And then you did mushrooms. Like this woman's lost her mind to call the police. She's like, I used to be 13 and now I'm here. It's like, what's going on? What drugs did you do? But he's doesn't have that reaction. Yeah, it's like covered in one line. She's like, I can't remember anything that happened. So he just like lets her start looking at materials and like doesn't kick her out. I guess you're supposed to think that he's attracted to her right away. So he lets her out. She's like, she might have amnesia and she looks fucking hot. I'm going to have to play this out and see where it goes. Then we get a dress up montage with Whitney Houston music heading into the elevator combo with 13 year old.

55:15But this movie, you know,

55:17Bill Simmons:this is like where you're just following the rom-com. You know, you're following the footsteps of the giants and one of them is you have to have a dress-up montage scene. So it was Whitney Houston. It was supposed to be Lips Like Sugar by Echo and the Bunny Man, which would have been great, but they couldn't get the licensing for it, which is crazy to me because they got 15 songs and spent millions of dollars, but somehow Echo and the Bunny Man were like, nope, we can't do it. They should take the money. It would have been amazing for them. They're like, I hate Alias. No, thank you. Yeah, the show's terrible.

55:48Yeah.

55:49Bill Simmons:Jenna saves the party with Thriller. Yeah. which is now an iconic rom-com scene and an iconic dress. Yes, the dress is, I think... So go, you take the floor. Just go. The dress is incredible. It is a modified Versace dress from like the year before. It's the green dress for the people who don't remember. Yes, it's like short. It's so funny that you say that. I'm like, how can people not know what I'm talking about? Yeah. The dress has such a long life. I think it's like a Halloween costume every year. I think it's something people think about when they turn 30. And it has like this silhouette that moves really well when she's doing the dance.

56:23The funny thing about the dance, I just don't think she's very good at it. Like, she's much better when she does Love is the Battlefield dancing on the bed later in the movie, but she looks like awkward and stiff.

56:32Bill Simmons:It gets better as the song goes along, but the first minute of it is really bad. And then Ruffalo is just putting a stamp on it for two minutes. It's like he's like hurt himself and he's like dragging his foot along. Gollum comes in and he's banging it out though. Gollum is ready to party. But yeah, the dress is amazing. And of course, it's like punctuated by her grabbing her boobs and saying, because I have these incredible boobs to fill it out. Like, yeah, it's such a gleeful moment. And I think that like, you know, a lot of people, particularly women can relate to like, putting on something that makes you feel so good that you just like want to live in the moment to experience like that greatness.

57:08And it's very sweet. It's like, it is literally aspirational, which is why it works so well. It's like you want to find a dress like that that's like fits you perfectly that makes you feel like a million bucks. And it's it just works.

57:18Bill Simmons:Craig does Michael Jackson have too much baggage now where a scene like this and people busting out Thriller would be more complicated or do people not care from your generation I don't think it's a Michael Jackson problem I the to me the craziest part was that like is was the song was the dance really so popular that yes in 2004 you could expect that anyone in a room knew the entire dance kind of yes wow because the video was like the probably the biggest video of all time and everybody imitated it so i loved i i love that it wasn't that mark ruffalo didn't know the dance and was embarrassed he's like well obviously i know the dance it's thriller but i don't want to do it i just love that anyone at this party if you pointed at them they were like yeah i know the thriller dance from beginning to end i mean it added up for me isn't that kind of back with tiktok dances like yeah i spent a long time watching everyone doing that baby doll jamie Miller dance last night.

58:13I was just like, how does everyone know this? This song stinks. Totally.

58:16Bill Simmons:It's just funny. It was like a two minute routine and everybody knew it. And I was like, man, did people really know the whole thriller dance? Man, sometimes that happens. Wesley didn't like it. Wesley wrote, shout out. Wesley's listening to this, having a great time right now. Watching Garner and the rest of the cast earnestly dance like ghouls. I cringed the way I might have had this happen at a party I was actually attending. The amaturness isn't cute. it's scary

58:45Bill Simmons:Wesley not a fan scary well that's amateurishness that's really I love when Wesley makes up a word or like you're like is that really a word he made that word up for sure but like that's another hallmark of Wesley's wonderful writing I think this reminded me of like every bar mitzvah I've been to and since she's supposed to be 13 it totally tracked I was like yeah I've been to because I went to a bunch as a kid and then way more when my kids had friends that had bar mitzvahs. I've somehow been in like 30 bar mitzvahs. Yeah, it's sort of like everyone knowing the cha-cha slide. It tracks. I thought it was, you know, it's a famous scene.

59:19Also, there is just something like the mechanics of Michael Jackson are obviously like he defies mechanics or he did. And so then like seeing all these people like just like get up into the party and doing it is hilarious. I love when Arlene joins the secretary. That's my favorite moment. She's like so happy to be out there. So Arlene's coming up later.

59:36Bill Simmons:I like Arlene as well. We have the Liz Phair, Manchez, into a montage into Razzles into the Brooklyn Bridge with them and whatever, throwing that in. That seems like a spot movies will go to. Oh, on the side of the East River? On the side with that shot. Saturday Night Fever was in there. 50 years of people shooting like right around in that area because it's a good shot of the bridge in the background. What about Manhattan? I mean, that's the black and white shot. I mean, that's iconic. Love is a Battlefield with the nice version of the six chicks when she's explaining to the 13-year-old. I actually, like, I could have gotten one more scene with her just hanging with the 13-year-old girls and dispensing advice.

1:00:16Bill Simmons:Like, that was a really fun part. All right. Jen, two more. Okay. Jenna's class of 2004 pitch for the new magazine. Bravo! Bravo! That's most rewatchable for you? I've got some notes. I wanted to bring that up later. No, it's rewatchable because it's probably be the worst publishing idea of all time. I think you're immediately, this goes beyond nitpicks. This is, you're just immediately fired. People are like, the fuck are you doing? The materials. It's supposed to be a glossy magazine that people aspire to. We're going to give them a high school yearbook. You're fired. It didn't even look well done.

1:00:53The materials she presented were so poor. If I were Maddie, I'd be like, please don't include my work. I don't want to be associated. You do not have the right to use my job.

1:01:02Bill Simmons:Gollum's like, who is this photographer? It's like these are fucking basic iPhone photos. It kind of looked like if like a five-year-old was trying to make their own J.Crew catalog, this is what they would have ended up with. Which basically it was. It was a 13-year-old. But even worse, like someone with no skills. It's so bad. And the irony is that Lucy's idea of like heroin chic, I was like, all right, this is pretty good. Yeah. I think this would work. Coming out of the music scene in New York in 04 and just kind of where things were going in general. I kind of liked it. I know why she became editor-in-chief of Sparkle.

1:01:33Good idea.

1:01:34Bill Simmons:Craig, which idea did you like more, Jenna's or Lucy's for the magazine redesign? I did immediately turn to Liz and I was like, you know Lucy's idea is way better than Jenna's, right? Fashion suicide would play. Liz was upset. She loves this movie. She doesn't like to hear any criticisms. Liz loved the happiness, celebration. Yes. Nostalgia. Wow, is it a bad idea. Liz loves Gollum. My last one is just Jenna and Lucy have it out. and Jenna finds out that evil Jenna, who she was before she kind of woke up, was actually undermining Sparkle every month. Judy Greer's lights out in this scene. Really good, yeah.

1:02:14Bill Simmons:I might have told him something else too, but I just can't remember. Are we supposed to think that she did and it got cut from the movie? Because later on, Jenna, when she shows up at Mark Ruffalo's house to stop the wedding, like it's my best friend's wedding. She says, well, I guess it is. She says, I don't know what she told you, but it's not true. So like, are you supposed to think there was something else? I think so. I did not put the wedding scene in that. I didn't think that. I thought that scene could have been better. I do have some thoughts about it later. But those are all my rewatchable scenes.

1:02:48Bill Simmons:So what's your... Oh, I skipped one accidentally. Finally, after Thriller, the sad Vienna scene. What a classic. I'm saving Vienna for later. Yeah, I have a part for it later, too. Here's what Billy Joel said, though, about Vienna. Actually, I'll save this part, too. All right, we'll save Vienna. I have a whole separate part for this. I mean, it deserves it. It's Vienna. What do you have for your most rewatchable scene? I can't wait. my most rewatchable scene is the first scene when she wakes up in the apartment the umbrella gag is really important to me when she like sticks it so she doesn't see his penis anymore in underwear like and all the physical comedy I just like feel proud as a Jennifer Garner fan in that moment and it's just very funny it's really well done and then this like the slip that she's wearing and then putting on the jacket is so famous that it's like and that even more than the dress for me that's like the defining look of the movie So it's definitely that.

1:03:51Bill Simmons:I think you're right. I think basically from the closet all the way through when she gets to work, the first 25 minutes of this movie are excellent. Yeah, they're really good. Really, really good. What's the most 2004 thing about this movie? So many. Eminem's on the phone. He wants a decision now. That slip dress is a little 1997. Wrote that one down. being surprised by a cell phone ring what else do you have? I have when she first gets to work you can see some of the previous issues of both Sparkle and Poise the cover stars also include Courtney Cox and Marissa Tomei oh those were pretty good I thought Courtney Cox in particular very 2004 there's the Jenna's office wall she has a picture of her with like a lot of people like the Madonna signed one she has a picture of her and Rudy Giuliani so it's very funny I had the flip phone back when it was okay to have a picture with Rudy Giuliani it wasn't like for humor or like having to ask a lot of questions it was just like this was the mayor during 9-11 right the flip phone was a big one for me too it's like especially because I think colored phones like a colored screen came in like 2002-2003 so they were really kind of coming into their own and then for me the repeated use of Liz Phair's Why Can't I I mean that is an early aughts song And to use it two times, it's like it wasn't a deep cut at the time.

1:05:18It was just Liz Phair. And so I don't think that resonates in the same way. And it really brought me back.

1:05:24Bill Simmons:My only other one, this was my winner. Garner's performance earned her nominations from both the MTV Movie Awards and the Teen Choice Awards. I feel like there was a three-year vortex where that could have happened. Totally. But I think you're right with Liz Phair. the Floyd Gundali Butter in My Ass Award and Lollipops in My Mouth Award for something I just enjoy. I'll go first. Okay. I love rom-com bitches. You like a bitchy lady. There's just a certain level it goes to and it's never like really, really like catastrophically mean but more mean where you're like, oh! And we all know people who are probably watered down versions of the rom-com bitches.

1:06:10Bill Simmons:You know, there's always somebody at work or somebody that, you know, your friend is friends with or your wife or girlfriend's friends with, but there's variations of them and you can see the seeds. So when I see Lucy, it's like, oh, I know, I know Lucy's. But rom-com bitches are great. They are because they have to turn it up a little bit. It can't just be like subtle. They have to be really clearly. Yeah, it's great. I think Sigourney Weaver is a really good example of that. Working Girl. Great example. She's like a great character. And like if that was actually your boss, you would want to die.

1:06:42Right. That's a good one. I mean, Judy Greer in this movie is great. She's unassailable. She really makes it a better movie. So I get it. It's a great one.

1:06:50Bill Simmons:Chance said she might have been on the right side of history too. Evil Jenna is just undermining the entire magazine to sparkle. I do also think that like you can't understand what a bad person Jenna was without Lucy. Because like if they're best friends and like calling them the dynamic duo at the beginning. Clearly like she has become a Lucy. Well, Lucy's Darth Vader basically. She sucks her to the dark side from the moment the 8th grade birthday party. It's true. Turning 13 is such a big deal. Brings her to the six chicks. Like just changes her life for the worse. Don't you think Jenna Rink probably would have had a bat mitzvah?

1:07:26Just throwing it out there. Living in New Jersey. She seems like a Jewish.

1:07:29Bill Simmons:So you think Jenna Rink definitely Jewish? I think so. Just occurred to me right now. Um, Jenna Rink. Yeah. Positive. That's a Jewish name though. Well, as a Jew, I think it is. Uh, you're more qualified to rule on this than me. I'm just, I'm just here as your supporting cabinet. Jenna Rink. Yeah. Just think about it. You know, people can let us know. Did the parents seem Jewish enough to you? Kathy Baker? I don't think so. No. But I do love Kathy Baker. Did you watch Picket Fences? Well, I mean, she was the hooker in Street Smart. Sure. That's where I knew Kathy Baker. Okay. What's going on with the pilot of you and Adam Friedland doing Jewish stuff?

1:08:06Bill Simmons:Have we filmed that yet or no? It's still just in our text messages. We haven't gotten there yet. I still feel like we do an eight-episode test drive. I'm interested. He's available. He is nearby. We're both in New York. Okay, the thing that I just like, Jennifer Garner's hairstyles are so funny in this movie. They do so much for the character. And like chopsticks in the hair, I don't think that would be like acceptable in a movie in this era, like after Gwen Stefani. But it's so funny. And the way that like they show her character, like evolving from having just woken up to like realizing she's a bad person with like the very like elaborate hairstyle.

1:08:48So just being down and like no makeup on is so well done. It's also just so like feminine. It adds a real touch of like Jennifer Garner's like feeling all over the movie. And I just like love it. I laughed myself when I watch it.

1:09:04Bill Simmons:We'll take one more break, and then we're going to go to what's age the best. Shaq here. What's it like to buy a car from Carvana 100 % online and get it delivered to your door? Let me tell you. Your car is here, Mr. Shaq. Thank you, Mr. Carvana guy. Can't wait to take it for a spin. Only the best for you, Mr. Shaq. Hey, have you always been so big, tall, and handsome? Not always. I was 6 '10 once. Seven days to love it or return it, Mr. Shaq. Not that I would. You never do. No, I never do. So buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply. See our seven-day return policy at Carvana.com.

1:09:37Bill Simmons:This episode is brought to you by Major League Baseball. The MLB postseason has arrived. There's no time like October. October starts with hope and then drama and either happiness or some pain. Now the games decide who gets to keep it. It comes down to one series, one game, one pitch, one month. It's not a question of if history will be made, but when. Don't miss the moment. Tune into the MLB postseason. Learn more at MLB.com slash postseason. What's age the best? Obviously, unquestionably, it is all of the J-Lo covers in a movie with Jennifer Garner right as J-Lo's about to break up with Ben Affleck, who Jennifer Garner is about to start dating.

1:10:19It's incredible.

1:10:20Bill Simmons:It's the whole movie. J-Lo is just, there's one part near the end where she's in front looking good outside with a J-Lo cover in the back. and it's like, I'm going to go get Ben Affleck now. You can do a super cut of her just ending up with Ben Affleck just through scenes of this movie. It is so funny because in the movie, which came out in the spring of 2004, she, in like the end, one of the final montage scenes, she goes to the newsstand and she takes down all the covers of Sparkle. There's three of them that are like being helped with a binder clip and J-Lo's on the cover and then she hides them.

1:10:53And like, you just couldn't script that better because then five months later, at game one of the World Series. Jennifer Garner and Ben Affleck make their debut at the Boston Red Sox. As did I.

1:11:03Bill Simmons:We were all in Fenway Park together, 11 to 9 over the Cardinals. And then it's just, it's crazy. Like, yeah, you got to discuss that, you know? It's just game one. I got to say, as you know, I love Affleck and I'll fight for Affleck and Damon forever. Me too. Very important next girlfriend choice because the J-Lo thing did not go over great with the fan base being that she was from the Bronx. Right. That's true. And was unabashedly a Yankee fan. And that was just really weird. So then they break up. He shows up symbolically, game one, 04 World Series with his new girlfriend, Jennifer Garner, who has a 100 % approval rating.

1:11:46Bill Simmons:Just a win all the way around. It was like, we've got him back. He's back in the fold. Ben Affleck, come back to us. It's kind of like a Nick Hornby moment. That's the kind of thing that would be in a Nick Hornby book where it's like he's back by showing up at his favorite stadium with a girlfriend you can all approve of. I wanted to walk over to him during the game and go, Ben, it's not your fault. It's not your fault. Just give him a big hug. Ben, it's not your fault. It's not your fault. It is not your fault. Morwitz is the best. The six chicks, just as a gimmick, and just a group of mean girls in a rom-com has a 100 % success rate.

1:12:25Bill Simmons:I don't think it's ever not worked. Yeah, because everyone can relate to that. Everyone knows that group from some point in their life. And also, having a really good name is important. So six chicks is great, and especially because it allows Maddie to say, you can't be in it. There's only six of them. It works out really well. They show up with shitty looks on their face. They're all kind of dressed the same. They have the different looks. There's always one tall one in the back. And then, Craig, buckle up, because you probably didn't research this. one of the six chicks you're gonna say Brie Larson Brie Larson he did research it I just I recognized her Ashley Benson right he's also there Ashley Benson from Pretty Little Liars a show I did not watch but Brie Larson I am familiar with her career sure she's on the far right has a crappy look on her face and then in the yearbook photos when Jenna has ascended as a six chick it seems like Brie Larson got bumped out so I don't know what do you think the mechanics of that one was Juliet.

1:13:22Maybe like where you get to stand in the row is like how close you are to the center of power and she was obviously on the periphery so she got pushed out.

1:13:29Bill Simmons:Yeah, and maybe a little too cute for Tom-Tom. Tom-Tom had to, it became a zero-sum game. Had to get out. Yeah, great point. Get Jenna in there. We also get the plastics a week later. Mean Girls came out a week after this one. So you have the six chicks and then the plastics seven days apart. You know, I'm glad you brought that up, Craig. I think that hurt this movie a little bit because Mean Girls was such a good high school movie and it was right after and it became more of a thing. And I don't think it gave 13 Going on 30 the stage, the runway that it needed. You know what I mean? More Woodstage is best for me.

1:14:06Bill Simmons:I thought the mom-daughter casting of Kathy Baker with the 13-year-old who becomes Jennifer Garner was really good. They actually looked like they were mother and daughter. And I like the mom in general. I know I made a lot of mistakes. but I don't regret making any of them. Good high school yearbook quote. I thought the mom was just great in this movie. Nice, even keeled. The next door neighbor gimmick in rom-coms, I just enjoy in general. When somebody like, anyway. Ariana Grande, thank you, next. Yes. I'm less familiar with this one. Okay. but um apparently big homage in that video to this movie the funny thing is there's also a big homage to Mean Girls in that video and a couple other movies but yes she has she's carrying the dream house in that video and it's a great video and a great song Billy Joel I have as a wood stage the best um this is always fun when movies do this as Jenna softens during the movie the production team adjusted her wardrobe and gave her warmer colors but Lucy becomes ruthless and her fashion sense goes the other way and goes darker.

1:15:17Bill Simmons:It's always like subtle shit I would never think of as I'm watching a movie. The wardrobe in this movie is really, really well done. And Jennifer Garner has worked with the costume designer like 10 times since this movie. Her name's Susie. The green thriller dress we mentioned ended up in a costume warehouse. And Garner said she always gets asked where it is. Apparently it was on Sex and the City on an extra during a scene in a theater and that's the last time it's been seen. It looked pretty different on that extra. I saw the scene and it doesn't have like the cutout. It doesn't have the cutout.

1:15:53And it's just like, you wouldn't realize it was the same. It's actually like someone watching really closely must have pointed it out because it doesn't even feel like the same dress.

1:16:04Bill Simmons:I have three more quick ones and I'll save my last one for last and then we'll go to you. Billy Joel, I think in the mid-2000s on has aged incredibly. Yeah. 1987 mixtapes was right around the first era of mixtapes. I think they did a good job with that. And then Matt's girlfriend. Really attractive. Anchor woman. Moving to Chicago. I gotta say sounds like a dream girlfriend. I don't know what Matt was thinking. Well, she denigrates. Long distance, fine. She denigrates. Commuter couple. I've never heard of that before. Commuter couple in the first year of marriage. It's not a term I knew, but I like it.

1:16:41I'm gonna start using it. She denigrated his work when she said you could take pictures of vitamin bottles from Chicago. So that wasn't so nice.

1:16:50Bill Simmons:Yeah, that wasn't nice, I guess. She was really attractive. Yeah, she was great. Also, Chicago, a great city. You know, I support it. I could see him fitting in Chicago. All right, I have one more, but you go. What do you have for what's age the best? Okay, I have a few. The topic of wardrobe, Mark Ruffalo. Like everywhere he dresses is like so popular now and also like kind of never went out of style for men. And he's wearing like the Adidas, a CBGB shirt, where his pants fit. Like everything about his style really works. I also noticed he has like a pendant light over his dining room table in his apartment that's also still very in.

1:17:22So I was impressed by that. I think that they nailed luxury really well. Like at the beginning when the guy at Poise turns to Jenna and goes two words, St. Barts. Like St. Barts is still aspirational and like still where someone like that would want to go. Yeah, that's a good one. That's really... Also, at the end, Jenna's parents were like, it was something with the San Isidro Ranch. And her dad's like, San Isidro. And I'm like, yes.

1:17:49Bill Simmons:Very popular. That remains quite luxurious. So, like, I think those have lasted. And, of course, I noted them. I think that New York City, like, they chose shots of New York that have not aged. Like, I was looking at the various addresses. Like, it's, like, 444 Madison. It's 61 5th. like those all look as good as they did then now and like won't change because they're like landmark buildings. And they also didn't pick any part of New York that felt gimmicky. Like for example, in big F.A.O. Schwartz is gone. They also, it's right after nine 11, but they didn't even like touch anywhere too far downtown.

1:18:25They have a scene on the street in Tribeca that like looked like it could have been a Whit Stillman movie or it could be today. Like it just, they nailed New York and they had a very limited time there, but they just picked really good exteriors.

1:18:37Bill Simmons:and it worked really well. So I had that as my Den of Thieves Benihana Award for scene-stealing location. Happy, sunny, crime-free, 9-11 never happened in New York. Totally. And this is filmed a year and a half after 9-11. It never acknowledges it. It just moves forward. And it's like, look how great New York is. And I think it's one of the reasons this movie is sustained. Definitely. It's like sunny. It makes you feel good, like you said. Yeah. I also just think, like, you mentioned it, but the pink slip dress is so, like, so, so good. People would wear that now. Yeah. That's my list. My last one, as you know, I love real estate.

1:19:16Bill Simmons:61 Fifth Ave, 7th C, Greenwich Village. Did some recon on it. Probably 55K a month to rent from there now. Definitely, yes. Really nice. There's a couple good wide shots if you Google. It's a 10-story building, perfect location in Greenwich Village, and it's where like celebrities are living in that place. I was just walking around there last week, like very close to there. And I saw Alec Baldwin on the street. So yes, they are. He and Hilaria were just leaving breakfast. Hmm, Hilaria. How's she doing? Was she good? She seemed like she was thriving. Her hair was like very voluminous. Good update.

1:19:54Bill Simmons:Great shot Gordo Award for most cinematic shot. That shot of the Brooklyn Bridge in the background that so many people have gone for. But in that, I don't know. I've just seen it many times. It always works for me. Yeah, it was great. They kind of do both sides. The beginning, they're eating the razzles, like walking, and that's on the Manhattan side. And then when they go to the playground, that's on the Brooklyn side. And it looks great both times. It's very beautiful. Chess Rock World Brocklander is a word for best character name. It's got to be the six chicks. Oh, okay. What did you have? Well, I just thought we needed to talk about Matt Flamhouse.

1:20:27That's like an awful, weird name. It's so awful and weird. like that it comes good. Yeah. So I'm like, okay, sure. Yeah, I could see that being like a dorky guy. It doesn't fit for Mark Ruffalo, but it fits for like the child actor.

1:20:39Bill Simmons:Handsome guy with a dorky name signifying that he might have been a dork way back when. And just like not a name you'd want to say. Like if you were 13 and you're talking about your boyfriend, like your mom would be like, Flamoff? Like what kind of name is that? So it's not, it's just a funny, funny choice. Big Kahuna Burger or best use of food or drink? Obviously Razzles. I think throwing the shrimp at the party. It's a really good touch and really funny. Okay. That worked better for me. Kid Cudi pursued a happiness award for best needle drop. So, and I'm writing this down as I'm watching the movie.

1:21:12Bill Simmons:It's like, go-go's head over heels. We get this twice. That's got to be the winner. No, it's definitely thriller. Iconic movie scene. Then Vienna kicks in. It's like, oh, it's Vienna. That's our winner. Yeah, it's Vienna. It's so amazing. It's such an incredible song. and it use it. It's like, I can't think of many other movies that use Billy Joel's voice over like kind of like a sad montage that way. It's so well done. It's like kind of beautiful. Also, it includes a train scene. Who doesn't love a train scene? Train scenes work 100 % of the time. Yeah. Great shot of the character looking sadly out the window.

1:21:47Bill Simmons:Things are moving. Everyone can identify with it. Was there a better title for this movie? I don't think so. Well, in Australia, it was called Suddenly 30 and then like in every other country, they translated it in like a way that was suddenly 30. Because apparently they didn't think 13 going on 30 would track for other cultures. And I'm just like, do people not have the sound of music in other countries? Because I am 16 going on 17 is pretty similar to 13 going on 30. So I was confused by that. But that is the individual name. Or that's the Australian name. Craig, you like Suddenly 30? No, I think 13 going on 30 is a better title.

1:22:24Bill Simmons:Suddenly 30 is pretty good. I like Suddenly 30 I also just think if you're starting over 30 and flirty and thriving I mean that's the line of the movie so that's probably the porn parody of this Juliet you have a flex category I would like to do the Vincent Chase award I'll be sure this character was actually good at her job oh because I just have a lot of questions so I hope you're talking about Jenna I'm talking about Jenna but I'm also talking about her boss Andy Serkis slash Gollum Gollum the way that he was so excited about the presentation. I have to wonder... Bravo! I have to wonder part of their problem is not just that she's giving away their ideas, but that he has terrible taste.

1:23:12Bill Simmons:Yeah, obviously. If he had better taste, he wouldn't have liked that presentation. And I think that he just... I'm worried about his judgment. He didn't seem... Also, don't have a poise party and invite the editor-in-chief from Sparkle. That was really weird. Why is she even there? That was really weird. And then with Jenna, if you were committing some, you know, like IP theft, or you're committing any kind of crime, do you keep evidence in your guest drawer? No, I've been picking nets. You're ripping that shit up at seven o 'clock on a Wednesday night. And like, why is there so much like paper trail involved in this?

1:23:42Just make a phone call. Like, I don't understand. So I just am worried that both of these people are not actually good at their jobs, despite the fact that he's an editor-in-chief and she's a rising star.

1:23:52Bill Simmons:I think it's a great call. And I don't think they were good at their jobs. That's why boys was in trouble. Which is girlfriend award for week link of the film. So she goes back. She's in the closet again. She's 13 again, but she has the wealth of eight days of experience of being 30 that she can now use going forward to basically reshape the next 17 years, but still ends up with Matt. like if you redo all this maybe Matt's life is completely different like we just go into the fucking twilight zone it doesn't track it's a problem there's no way to explain it does she have a memory of it or no because in Big the kid has no memory of anything he just shows up back home and doesn't remember anything that happened I think she does have memory of it though she does there's a line that indicates that she remembers and also like the way that she rips up the paper when Tom Tom comes back and everything suggests that she's, you know, no longer interested in becoming this bad person.

1:24:56So she spent her high school life

1:24:57Bill Simmons:trying to destroy Tom Tom basically and be Queen Bee. Yeah. But also trying not to be a bad person. Yeah, I think so. She's like kinder, but I guess like she's like kill him with kindness. I don't see that working in high school, but you know, maybe. And she's like, I'm just going to stretch it out here with Matt because I know in 17 years, he's going to look like Mark Ruffalo. Yeah, I know where we're headed. He's going to be a really talented photographer. Yeah, okay. She's just writing it out. What's age the worst? Jenna hits on a 13-year-old boy and asks for the catch-up. I can't believe the scenes in the movie.

1:25:29Yeah, it's a really tough one.

1:25:31Bill Simmons:In 04, it's a tough one. It's really uncomfortable to watch. You're just like, no, this isn't working. And it is a little bit weird the way she talks to the girl in the elevator, but obviously since it's not like sexual, it's fine. But all of the like 30-year-old talking to 13-year-old as herself, it's sort of the inverse of the big relationship. Oh, wow. I feel like that joke really landed for me. I thought it was a great punchline. Like, to be honest. And they're like, oh, that guy's really into you. She's like, really? Him? He's cute. And then she walks past the adult to the 13-year-old. That was a great punchline.

1:26:05Bill Simmons:It's a joke. It's fine. What was Liz's take on that? She agreed. She thought it was cute and funny. Come on. All right. Okay, sure. I think that's getting cut now. Well, maybe. I mean, it would be worse if the genders were swapped. But I think the older woman talking to the teenage boy is like not a huge deal. Well, the funniest thing about it though, it's like the sexiest she looks in the movie is in that scene. Like in that black dress, like her hair up. They're like, it's like they really turn up her sex appeal in that scene. So it's - The bigger issue with that scene is her friend is going, there's some hottie checking you out.

1:26:36Bill Simmons:And it's just some, that guy who's not a hottie. I don't know why the other actor must have called it. Also, Judy Greer would have taken Jenna to the insane asylum after that moment. Like there's no way she would have allowed her to just continue existing as a human. No question. Seven Minutes in Heaven. Is that a gun? Feels like a long New Yorker piece about terrible things that happened during seven minutes of heaven. I don't know. Maybe 90 seconds. What about consensual or just in the closet for seven minutes? Seems better than like doing drugs. I don't know. What did Matt call it? Seven minutes of rapist or something?

1:27:13Bill Simmons:Yeah. I guess he was ahead of his time. There's no email or internet in this movie, even though it's 2004? Come on. Right. Yeah, like Jenna could be emailing her. Where was the scene of her being like, what is this? I can send a note and somebody gets it? Like, I don't know. That's an easy one. I had a problem with all the hockey stuff. Well, I would, yeah. The hockey stuff, yes, is really bad. I mean, it's pretty much an insult to hockey players to seem so incredibly lame, goofy, have no muscle tone and no self-awareness. It's just like really bad. So this guy, first of all, the 2004 New York Rangers went 27 and 40.

1:27:50Okay.

1:27:51Bill Simmons:They weren't exactly lighting the city on fire that year. So we'll start there. The guy who plays Alex Carlson, we've all known hockey players in high school and college. Maybe even, you know, a couple of pros. They don't act like Alex Carlson. They're all kind of like stoic and cool. Yeah. They do not have personality across the board. There's no like gregarious hockey player. They're all like, Hey, we just got to go out there and do our thing. And so I don't, I don't know where this guy came from. I mean, the goofy striptease, that's an 80-year. That's really tough. It's the worst scene in the movie.

1:28:22Bill Simmons:I have that as well. Jenna's apartment, as nice as it was, I didn't like some of the decor. I thought the kitchen cabinets looked cheap. It did, yeah. But she's still only 30. Some of the furniture was cheap. Only 30. And then my last one was she's not curious enough about 2004. And they missed the easiest Michael Jackson joke possible where they show her, like, here's our Michael Jackson cover. And she's like, who's that? Like they, it's just sitting there. She hasn't seen Michael Jackson in 17 years. That's a great point. I don't know how they missed that one. But they missed a couple like, wait, that's that now?

1:28:55Bill Simmons:And they just, it's like a scene missing almost. Yeah. Like she doesn't have like Will Ferrell and Elf when he gets to New York. And he's like, what is this? Like there could have been a few more, a few more of those. Yeah. I think also the Tracy from the art department's husband, when he comes in and like tries, he says like, we rattled a field drawers last week. Yeah, that was weird. That was really bad. That was like in a different movie. I was like, who is this person? And that just like stuck out. They're just trying to show that she's an awful person. Yeah, I guess. And she's like, yes, it just like didn't work though.

1:29:28And it's just weird. And didn't care for that guy. I also thought that like making fun of plastic surgery at one point, Mark Ruffalo character like refers to the plastic surgery movement as if it's something that's like happened and is over.

1:29:42Bill Simmons:Yeah, just wait, Mark Ruffalo. Yeah. I was just like, that's, yeah, that didn't quite work. It's like, I don't know, just again, like a different plane or something. Didn't work for me. Ruffalo Hannah Rubinick Partridge overacting word. It's got to be the striptease with the New York Ranger, right? Yeah. It's a bad scene. It's so bad. Or the guy coming into her office and trying to make out with her. So both really bad. Anything sexual in this movie is not well done. Like it's a very like neutered movie and they shouldn't have even tried. The striptease is terrible. Yeah, Big was able to somehow pull it off.

1:30:13Bill Simmons:I think because of the gender switch but also they just Penny Marshall's directing it and I just they did a better job of it. What do you have for the CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest take award? My hottest take about this movie is it is not a rom-com. It's a teen movie.

1:30:32Interesting. Okay. Because first of all they don't end up together in like the main timeline that we're in. It requires time travel for them to end up together. And ultimately the character of Jenna is 13. Like everything about like her perspective of the movie is from a 13 year old. And it actually is really well done. But as a result, there's not this like professional woman who's like somehow wayward finding, you know, back to the, finding this guy who like changes things for her. And there's no like threat to their relationship that they have to overcome in the course of the movie that evolves.

1:31:05Like everything, all the cards are on the table. He has a fiance. She's actually 13. and so it's really about a teenager like realizing who they want to be it's in like the couple itself is like you're happy that Jenna got a happy ending but really the moral of the story is like be a nice person and your life will be better so I think that since the romance is so secondary to everything that Jennifer Garner is doing as Jenna that's not really a rom-com

1:31:30Bill Simmons:it's a non-sexual adult movie that's actually a teen movie yeah exactly I like it not even sure that's the hottest take you might just be right thank you thank you so much Mine is for almost 30 years from 1977 to 2004. Vienna was the single most underrated great pop song we had. And I still think it's one of the best pop songs of all time. I would put it with Wonderwall and Hey Jude and I Will Always Love You. Pick a song. I think it's perfect start to finish. It's perfectly sung. The lyrics are amazing. And for whatever reason, it took everybody 28 years to figure out how to put this in a fucking movie.

1:32:10Bill Simmons:And it turned out to be this weird Jennifer Garner movie. And they fucking nailed it. And it was just sitting there for anybody for two and a half decades. And nobody unlocked it. It's so good. It is such a great song. I think it's his best song. And he even says, he thinks it's one of his two best. And he said, he attributes its late popularity to the film, adding, that's a movie that was so popular with girls, and girls are mostly in enthusiasm for where that song comes. It's a coming of age song. Slow Down You Crazy Child so I guess it resonates with younger people. As a lifelong Billy Joel fan that song was awesome the whole fucking time and Vienna and Summer Highland Summer Highland Falls were his two great songs that for some reason weren't as popular as like 12 other Billy Joel songs and I never understood it.

1:32:57Bill Simmons:So they finally unlocked it. It's a great song. I completely agree with you. I love the piano in it which is obviously like his signature but like it really stands out. It's so beautiful. The funny thing is I became a really big fan of the song within like the last like 10 years because my Spotify algorithm has pushed it on me so hard. And willingly, I'm like happy to be here. Like, I love it. I knew it from the movie mainly, but I don't think it has like a, it's like a niche song. It's like a B-side, even though it's so great. I know. It's a great, great, great song. And it's, the scene in the movie is unlike any other scene.

1:33:29It's like, cause it's a different type of song than the rest of the soundtrack. Like it just really sets it off. It's really beautiful.

1:33:35Bill Simmons:I have another personal connection with this song. Okay. When my daughter was 10 in fifth grade and her class, everybody got to do some sort of talent show thing for a minute. And she sang Vienna and she fucking crushed it. And it was like one of like my parent highlights of my life. That's amazing. I vaguely remember that when that happened, actually. Yeah, it was her voice was like perfect 10-year-old voice, like probably like the peak of what her voice was. And she just crushed the song, but nobody knew the song. So all the parents were like, I love that song. They were all fired up about it.

1:34:05Bill Simmons:That's great. Casting what ifs. Gwyneth Paltrow, Hilary Swank, Renee Zellweger were all backups if Jennifer Garner couldn't do this movie. I don't think any of those work. Me neither. Renee Zellweger is probably a little too old, I think. I think mid-90s Renee Zellweger, I think it works. Yeah, like Empire Records Renee Zellweger. Yeah, plus she's already been in Jerry Maguire. It's like weird. Yeah, I don't see it. Me neither. I do think that young Jenna looks like Hilary Swank, but I definitely don't see with Hilary Swank. And then, you know, funny enough, Gwyneth Paltrow did like the host, the flight attendant movie with Mark Ruffalo.

1:34:43So they got their swing together, but that movie was not good.

1:34:47Bill Simmons:No. Casting director said if Ruffalo turned it down, Paul Rudd and Sam Rockwell were next on the list. Interesting. Paul Rudd, I could definitely see in that role. He would be waiting. Young Matt and young Jenna, they did the test audiences, hated them. and they had to reshoot all of it with different actors, and it worked better. I don't think Young Matt is that good. Yeah, I was surprised to even know about that, considering I didn't feel like they landed in an incredible spot. No. Joey Pants Award for Best That Guy. I think Kathy Baker is Kathy Baker, even though Craig would say she's that lady.

1:35:22Bill Simmons:But it's clearly Gollum. Yeah. I said that he's, like, so famous. He's been in so many movies over the last, like, 20 years. So who would you have, then? Mine is Kirsten Warren, who plays Trish, the editor-in-chief of Sparkle at the party. The frizzy lady? I was like, I know that voice. I know that voice. Saved by the Bell, The College Years. Oh my God, that's a good one. I like that show. Me too. I was like, I know her, I know her, I know her. And then I, it was her. She's the winner. Great call. Yeah. Dion Waiters Award. I can give you Young Tom Tom. I can give you the frizzy editor of Sparkle who you just talked about.

1:36:02Bill Simmons:I can give you Chris Grundy driving the cab. It's Grundy? Come on. Chris Grundy. Respect him. But it's clearly Arlene the assistant. It's Arlene. Just hitting home runs left every scene. Crying at the end during the worst pitch ever in a magazine. I loved Arlene. I don't know who that actress is, but great job by her. I also love when Jennifer Garner's like leaving the office. I think it's to go to the photo shoot and she goes to Arlene, aren't you coming? And Arlene's like so surprised, but so happy to be included. Yeah, I loved it. Loved Arlene. Recasting couch director City. I can give you Tim Curry as Gollum.

1:36:37Bill Simmons:Gollum's part as the magazine editor. Just passed away, by the way. How about Ryan Reynolds? Ryan Reynolds as Alex Carlson. Canadian. That's interesting. Early in the career, like post-Vean Wilder. A little more famous. Would it be fun to see him in this? I'm just checking when the proposal came out. The proposal was in 2009. Yeah, just thinking about him before that. And I guess he's like definitely maybe Ryan Reynolds at this point. He's about to be Amityville Horror, make a bunch of bad movies in a row. I'm always just thinking with Ryan Reynolds. I'm very anti-Ryan Reynolds, having nothing to do with the recent stuff with Justin Baldoni.

1:37:14Bill Simmons:You've never liked him? No. Ever since I've known you, you've always been out. Yes. And I just don't... I think he works in the proposal because there's something sort of like sycophantish about him in that where like you like his family so much that you buy it. You're like, yeah, she would want to join this family. But he's just not like likable. And I just feel like he would want Jenna's approval so much more than Maddie ends up wanting it as an adult. Can I offer you Mark Paul Gosselaar then? Wow. Yeah. He was the most important actor for me from like 1986 to 1992. Actually, when I was born until I was six.

1:37:49Right around that right age range. That would be good. Yeah, I could see that. I could see that working. What about Scott Wolf? Scott Wolf would have been great.

1:37:58Bill Simmons:Short. Jennifer Garner is tall. That is true. Yeah. He's got to be at least two inches taller. Okay. Okay. I was going to say, I think this movie works in almost any city. Even though I think they nail New York, I think you could move it to almost any city. Chicago during the summer. Yeah. Boston easily. I think even LA. Like, I really do. Like, I think you can do this almost anywhere. San Francisco in the 2000s. Yeah. Yeah. Craig, you have a flex category. Are you going to come on the Zoom for this or are you going to stay anonymous? I can come on the Zoom. Oh, thanks, man. I appreciate it. I was going to do Lena Dunham running Spawn Ranch Award most jarring casting for Andy Serkis because I've just recently gotten into Lord of the Rings.

1:38:43Bill Simmons:I'm like, holy shit, that's Schmeagel right in the office. But you guys hit that appropriately. My precious. Yeah. We used to have a category that I don't believe is in the flex list anymore called Best Hang, Worst Hang. Remember that? Oh, that should be in the, that must have been accidentally deleted. Say what you will about the actor and how good he is in it, but I think the character of young Maddie, kind of a sneaky great hang. Like, kind of an independent king, solo dancing to talking heads at the party was kind of awesome. Like, he just, like, has great taste in music. He's a photographer.

1:39:14Bill Simmons:He's building, he's, like, woodworking. I love that he was, like, I love that everybody, he's a hobbyist. Everybody shit on him at this party, and he goes, I'm gonna go home and get my keyboard guitar like as if Matt's gonna save the party he comes back and he's gonna play a song I actually thought he was really likable and had a good personality for somebody who's supposed to be like a huge nerd he seemed kind of fine to me like a decent hang 100 % absolutely would have been friends with Matt in the 80s yeah totally I think he's a good dude that's a good one oh that's good half-assinant research not a ton here except for the Krista B.

1:39:49Bill Simmons:Allen played 13-year-old Jenna and then did it again in Ghosts of Girlfriends Past where she played Jennifer Garner's younger version. In Seven Minutes of Heaven, you can see actual photos of Jennifer Garner as a child on the back of the door. And then there's a scene when Jenna breaks up with Alex Carlson, which was deleted, but you can find on the Blu-ray special features, which I'm sure you have. Yes. I don't think I have that anymore, but I definitely had the DVD of this when I was in college. There's no doubt about that. Apex Mountain. Jennifer Garner, I think, is a yes. Wow. She's on Alias.

1:40:26Bill Simmons:This movie makes almost$100 million, and she starts dating Ben Affleck. I think this is apex-y. As an actress, I have to agree. I don't think her acting career has gotten bigger since then. It's sort of been at the same level. She's more famous now. Yeah. But yeah, back then, you would have said, oh, she's going to be Julia Roberts. Yeah, I mean, it's funny, because we haven't mentioned the fact that she's been the Capital One lady for a long time and she took Once Upon a Farm public within the last year. Like, she has all these other revenue streams. Yeah. But as an actress, like, it's because of what we talked about before, it's kind of like, it became secondary in some ways.

1:41:03One movie a year or whatnot. So I guess I agree with you. She's certainly richer now. More famous.

1:41:08Bill Simmons:So maybe money-making Jen Garner, maybe this was in the apex. No, but I think, I think her Capital One money must be immense. I can't even imagine. Everybody likes her. Impeccable reputation. I get why. I've watched a lot of like, like wacky Jen videos. Cause I like, I like to have the reasoning for why I'm a fan. And she is so charming. And I did get to meet her once when I was doing this Felicity project. I interviewed her and she was, there was no reason for her to say yes. Like there's, there's no reason for her to do a lot of stuff. She did a lot of press around the 20th anniversary of this movie.

1:41:38And I was just kind of like, why? Like she, she always something that she could be promoting, but it seems like she was just like, yeah, sure. Me and Judy Greer will do an interview with Vogue. Why not? So I think she's just like a great person.

1:41:48Bill Simmons:How many times can I say it? Beloved Hollywood lady. Mark Ruffalo now. Razzles, unless you want to say in the 80s, but this was probably the most prominent Razzles we've ever had. I only know about them from this movie. Yeah, so there you go. 2000s fake fashion magazines as TV or movie plots? It's tough. Were you on the 2010s for this? I think that How to Meet a Guy in 10 Days is sort of like the bigger magazine rom-com. It's on the list, by the way. Yeah, so I think that one probably would be the apex mountain for that. Like, I think I was looking into this for the pod of all of the women who have played like TV producers, advertising execs, or like journalists.

1:42:31And I think that the two biggest ones, in my opinion, are Eva Mendez and Hitch, which you guys just did, and Kate Hudson and How to Lose a Guy. So I think those two are bigger.

1:42:41Bill Simmons:Is this your resume to do the How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days podcast? Because it's been on the list for a while. It is the Sacramento Kings, New York Knicks NBA Finals. I just wanted to do the pod to talk about that for 10 minutes. I'm just happy to be here, Bill. Anytime you ask, I'll be here. So you let me know. Madonna's crazy for you. The answer is no. What is it for that song? Because it's actually when it came out and it was on the Vision Quest soundtrack and has a really important moment in Vision Quest. And I feel like that was a huge song and I don't think it needed this movie to become a big song.

1:43:16Bill Simmons:So I'm going to say mid-80s for that. thrillers, obviously, mid-80s. Obviously. Sam Ball, the actor who played the hockey player, Alex Carlson. Apex Mountain. It's always a red flag when you look at the IMDb and he's had multiple names. There's the Samuel Ball stage for him, then he was Sam Ball, and it's... That's gotta be a SAG thing, right? Like, having to change his name around? Yeah. Well, I hope to never see him again. Like, no offense, but this movie didn't get him. Don't worry, I don't think you had. But post 9-11 feeling good about New York City again movies? It's in the running. I think it's Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2 with Tobey Maguire.

1:43:58But those are up there too. Just because those are like superhero movies in a way. Yeah, and like Spider-Man comes out in 2002. And it's such a beautiful view of New York. Finishing last 25th hour.

1:44:13Bill Simmons:A great movie. Judy Greer, no. No. I think, what's her apex mountain? That's a tough one. But I don't think it's this. I mean, I do think acting-wise, it's The Descendants. She's fantastic in that. And that's, but, oh, it's tough. That's the thing. Her career, there hasn't really, there wasn't like the moment. She was just always Judy Greer reliable. She's not exactly a character actress, but she's just sort of like, she's like a second banana all the time. and she's never like the person you're showing up for, but you're always glad she's there. She's like the best person to have a party. You're hoping Five Day Weekend season two, maybe a lot more Judy Greer in season two.

1:44:54She wants to say it's called Five Star Weekend. Please respect it. Five Star Weekend and Five Day Weekend. Well, that too. They packed a lot in. Yeah, I hope Elektra is back. She was great. Okay. But my favorite person on the show is Regina Hall. Carry on.

1:45:06Bill Simmons:She was great. Using an umbrella as self-defense. Yes. So great. Rom-com characters Cruelly breaking up a wedding For their own self-interest I could offer you My best friend's wedding A lot like love Or 13 going on 30 As three candidates Unless there's another one I'm not thinking of It has to be Julia Roberts I mean It's my best friend's wedding I think so It's the whole premise of the movie Yeah And the purple dress Yeah It's great She's basically an evil person In the movie We've covered in the rewatch Yeah That's like It's dark It's my girl Cameron Diaz She's so good in that Of course he chooses her.

1:45:41And then Vienna, the song,

1:45:44Bill Simmons:I think this was Apex Mountain. It completely rejuvenated it and it finally got the acclaim it deserved for 27 years. Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, and I can't think of another movie that could use it this way. It's great. It's perfect. Cruise or Hanks? Hanks. Hanks, for sure. Hanks is a rough one. Yeah. I didn't prep you for this category. Okay. 1977, Goldie Hawn. 1991 Julia 2011 Emma Stone or 2026 Zendaya I think it's Emma Stone of those I think it's Emma Stone I think Emma Stone would have crushed this movie she would have been great she would have been great and I think she has the physicality for that really important first scene and she is like similar to Jennifer Garner she's like not attainable but she can present in a movie as like a regular person in terms of her attractiveness and I'll go one step further Craig give me your thoughts on this Emma Stone, I think she plays herself as the 13-year-old.

1:46:41Bill Simmons:I think she goes all in. She's like, I don't need a 13-year-old. I can do it. I'm not good with an actress. Yeah. Plays herself at 13 and 30. Nobody's done it in a body switch movie before. Yeah, Yorgos Lanthimos can film it. Yeah, I think that would be good. Yeah, she uses like CGI or CGI. I think she could have done it. The David Caruso Stuff a Legends Award for character who definitely should have been spun off into their own sequel. I A Lucy sequel I think could have been interesting For sure Of Lucy running Sparkle Magazine And then has a new competitor And it's You know Lindsay Lohan Or whoever in 05 Would have worked Yeah I think that would have been great There's way more There's way more to that character I'm still wondering Why she's called Tom Tom Like you know I've got a lot of questions Yeah why is she called Tom Tom I don't know I'd love to find out Tom Tom Cat I guess I have no idea Pick and nits.

1:47:36Bill Simmons:I have a few. Oh my God. I mean, I'm going to turn the floor to you because I have so many. I'll, I'll, I'll turn the floor to you and then I'll, I'll mop up what you didn't get. I mean, the biggest one we already talked about is like, how does she live her life knowing that she had this alternate life that she then undone? Like there, that just like doesn't make any sense. Um, you know, I have a lot of New York stuff. Like the address 61 fifth Avenue is actually 11th street, but they frequently show 12th Street. Oh, you're going deep. Well, I looked at all the exteriors. New York is... Also, she lives in the village and they're like, he's in the village.

1:48:12Bill Simmons:And she goes, what's the village? But she's already in the village, right? Yeah, I mean, it just doesn't really work. And like, of course, every New York movie, you have to wonder like, how could she get there so quickly and all of that. I was also wondering how Maddie just like doesn't really have any work. Like, it doesn't seem like he actually does anything. His girlfriend does refer to him, like, taking pictures of vitamin bottles. But as far as I can tell, he's actually unemployed and just kind of always home slash available. Yeah, he should have been talking a lot about fantasy football.

1:48:44Bill Simmons:He's in, like, three leagues. Yeah. And then he's a huge Knicks fan or something. He needed some sort of hobby other than I'm an unemployed photographer who just kind of hangs around a bit. Probably a huge pothead, I feel like. What happened? Probably a huge pothead, too. I feel like that guy's smoking a lot of weed. Probably. This might come up, but he kind of sucks. He's sort of a loser. See, I feel like that's a Ruffalo thing, but I enjoy it because I don't think he wants to be in this movie. It's true. But I do feel like his energy actually works for the movie because he doesn't want to be in the movie.

1:49:18Everything with making a magazine is totally devoid from reality. They could have made it a little bit more realistic. Like when Andy Serkis brings up the redesign and they're all like, that is a death sentence or like the R word. It's just kind of like, actually, that's not true. Like magazines. Redesign some work. Yeah, they really do. It's like, you know, a relaunch and a way to get some attention. So I had a lot of issues with that. And I also just thought that some of the stuff like in her apartment, like when she's going through her clothes and whatnot, like she just would have had so many more questions.

1:49:51And to your point, she could have like looked some stuff up. Like she could have sat down at like the You've Got Mail style giant computer.

1:49:57Bill Simmons:Yeah. Like then like just ask some questions essentially. And that, that really stuck out. I have a few really hardcore ones. Okay. The six chicks are dressed like it's 1985 and not 1987. I actually wanted to ask you about that. I was in high school in the mid eighties. They're, they're dressed like it's 85, 87. The hair is starting to get bigger. We're big hair across the board. Nobody has the big hair. They're like more in like the first two years of Madonna era retro look. And it's just not, it's not accurate. Jenna's dad's video camera just didn't exist in 1987. Okay. I had video cameras from day one.

1:50:40Bill Simmons:They were super bulky. You needed a battery on the side. It was the camera attached to the thing and to lug it around. It was like 50 pounds. Nobody had a camera like that. 1987. Okay. Okay. Matt should have been way more dumbfounded and alarmed by how actually truly crazy Jenna was. And it's just not hammered home enough. He's just going with it because she's hot. And I just think there would have been more questions for her. So she, she becomes an adult, goes to, she starts throwing, she's, she basically litters all the time. Do 13 year olds just litter? I know they're saying it's a sign of immaturity, but I'm positive.

1:51:20Bill Simmons:I didn't do that when I was 13. Like I'd eat a shrimp and just throw it over my shoulder. Who does that? I'm embarrassed to say that I used to litter. I did. Okay. It's really a dark time in my, in my past. I'm sorry to even have to admit to it, but I'm just trying to be honest with you here. I did used to litter. I regret it. I would never do it now. Craig's heart. Craig just left the zoom. Craig hates littering. I know it's wrong. It's really rude to the people around you. It like, it's just a terrible thing to do. Okay. Julia, it's pro littering. The parents would have redone the basement. at some point.

1:51:54Bill Simmons:Jenna's out of there for college in their 20s. Like at some point, you're redoing it. You're putting like a wine cellar down there. Like they obviously have some money because they go away for trips and stuff. I just don't think they're leaving the basement exactly the same 17 years later. You're doing something. You're doing some sort of remodel. You're putting a TV down there. You're not just leaving it intact. It's probably a computer. Jenna, from the moment she becomes 30, just eats like crap for the entire movie. and you think they're setting up a scene where she's like, I can't fit it in these jeans anymore, and they just don't.

1:52:27Bill Simmons:They let it go. Oh, interesting. I think that's realistic. She's eating Cheetos and candy and pizza, and it's just bouncing off her. Isn't that kind of like the freshman 15? I guess you gain weight in college, but you're free for the first time, and you're just able to eat whatever you want. Never happens in this movie. That's true. That's true. You mentioned Evil Jenna. No way she keeps the letters to Sparkle. Just, hey, they're in the top drawer of my desk in case anybody wants to go through and I'll get fired. Here's a big one. Well, my two biggest ones. The class of 2004 Sparkle Magazine ad is on the bus in 12 hours.

1:53:02Bill Simmons:Yes. They've stolen the ideas. She walks out of the office. It's on the bus already. This is the most miraculous ad campaign anyone's ever had. That did not make any sense. And he's like, it's already everywhere overnight. That made no sense. Agreed. Like the bus ads are booked far in advance. This is my wife's biggest one. Okay. the fiance of Mark Ruffalo, this whole time they're dating, they're about to get married. He's been keeping this dollhouse of Jenna in his closet. It's just tucked away in the top. And then Jenna shows up and she's like, Oh, who are you? And, and you know, you're going to be probably this woman's going to be on your radar.

1:53:44Bill Simmons:It's like, Oh my God, this is the lady that my fiance made a fucking dollhouse of and then kept for the next 17 years i'm on high alert i gotta destroy this lady nothing that's his offer yeah keep it in your closet especially especially because he has a picture of jenna in a bathtub in that dollhouse it's like really weird that's a good one craig if liz you move in with liz and you're like yo top left shelf of the closet. Just going to have my dollhouse of this girl I was obsessed with when I was 13. Does Liz move out at that point? What happens? Yeah, she probably throws that thing off the balcony and smashes it.

1:54:28Bill Simmons:Yeah, that's the thing. You smash the dollhouse. You're like, it's me or the dollhouse. You're picking right now. Especially because Ruffalo's character is like all pretending that, he's like, hey Jenna, I moved on. That was 17 years ago. You didn't move on. I barely remember you. It's like polishing off that dollhouse once a week, I bet. It's a big dollhouse. It's not like it's like this little tiny thing he's shoving in the drawer. It's like taking up actual size. Isn't the dollhouse at his parents' house, though? Like, it comes back in the final scene and he hands it to her. Yeah, but he's not taking the fiancé back to the parents' house?

1:55:01Yeah, I guess he's probably... It's a good point.

1:55:02Bill Simmons:It is in the parents' house, but why did he keep it? And the fiancé's not going to go through his room? Well, related to that, why are they getting married at his parents' house? I heard they went to the San Isidro Ranch so they could have a much nicer wedding. It's another rom-com trope. Everybody gets married at somebody's house in a movie. I will say. Meanwhile, I've never been to a wedding. I've been to 70 weddings. I've never been to a wedding at somebody's house. I've been to two home weddings. They're both in the Hamptons. And home weddings are actually incredibly expensive if you do it like in the Hamptons.

1:55:30You have to bring everything in. You need to have generators, catering, a floor put down.

1:55:35Bill Simmons:Julia, it's so loud. Craig, have you been to a home wedding? I've been to a backyard wedding, yes. Well, a backyard wedding is more like what they had. But I'm just saying, if he's going to San Isidro, I think he can afford a wedding at a hotel or something like that. So it's still weird if the dollhouse is at the parents' house. Like, I'm sorry. Yeah, they're throwing that out. If my parents were holding on to some dollhouse that I built, a girl when I was 13 years old and Liz saw that, when she's 30 years old. That means they want you to get back together with that girl. Yeah. Also, they also say that she threw the dollhouse at him.

1:56:08Yeah, so it should have, like, broken. He must have fixed it. that's even weirder.

1:56:14Bill Simmons:Sequel, prequel. I got a listener email suggesting a tweak here. Sequel, prequel, streamer, all black cast, spinoff, remake, or untouchable. Now we have six choices, seven choices for this. The answer is remake. Ironically, Netflix, March 2026, this movie's on Netflix right now, announced that they're doing a remake. it is directed by Brett Haley. It stars Emily Bader and Logan Lerman. I like Logan Lerman. I love Logan Lerman. Yeah, he's great. He's good. She was in a previous Netflix movie, The People We Meet on Vacation. Original cast members, Jennifer Garner and Judy Greer, spotted doing cameos.

1:57:00I think Garner's a producer. Like, she's an EP on it, I think. I'll give it a whirl. Of course. Yeah, me too. I'm interested. Logan Lerman's a good pick.

1:57:08Bill Simmons:It's like 30-70, made 30 % chance it's good, 70 % chance it's disappointing, and a 100 % chance my wife will watch it and love it with my daughter. So there you go. Yeah, I'll definitely give it a shot. And Jennifer Garner, like, supporting it, that's a good sign. This, I'm surprised, was not, the remake was not just a streamer. I mean, like a one-season streamer show. Like, I haven't already done it, you're saying? Yeah, the first episode is everything her in high school leading up to the body switch. The second episode, she wakes up. You have that whole first season of her trying to figure out what to do when she's 30.

1:57:48Bill Simmons:It's kind of weird this didn't happen that way. I agree with that. I think that the problem with the streamer rom-coms, why they're not as high quality, is because there's not as much time committed to answering those questions. And so it would really change the approach from all these shows. For the Amazon YA shows that they do, this would be an Amazon YA show that's true that's true those shows have gotten like more this would need to be raunchier would need to have like or like a real sexual aspect to it because those shows all have them whether it's like raunchy or kind or whatever but that's really missing from this movie that's present in those TV shows now Craig what do you think if they remade this but when she turns 30 she becomes a male hockey player and then it becomes like heated rivalry that's good that plays now you know yeah Yeah.

1:58:35Bill Simmons:I mean, it's now Matt. Matt's playing hockey or maybe Matt is involved with the hockey player. I don't know. They heat the rivalry right up. That's off campus. That'd be great. Great show. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Fergie the Forest, St. Louis, Robert Evans, Dr. Charles Nichols, Ted Levine, or someone else? Did you have anyone for this? Well, there's not that many people in this movie, which is what I was thinking about. Like, there's kind of four people in it. Maybe six if you include Alex Carlson and the fiance. say. So my answer to that is no. Like we're, we're good with this small cast.

1:59:07Bill Simmons:I would like Kirk Herbstreit on the director's commentary. Does he do hockey too? No, Kirk Herbstreit during the magazine pitch is like, yeah, it's a great pitch by Jenna. She looked over the room and she nailed the pitch. Al, just what Oscar who gets it? Can the soundtrack get an Oscar? Yeah, I think so. Sure. They have Oscars for soundtracks. I can't remember. They usually have original song. I don't think they have like licensed song. I feel like best put together soundtrack should be either an Oscar or a Grammy. Maybe it's, maybe it is a Grammy. I think, I don't know. Soundtrack should have won something.

1:59:46I think the soundtrack is great. For me, it is definitely the costumes and the wardrobe. It's like just so well done. And I know that Jennifer Garner has worked with that woman many more times. Her name is Susie DeSanto. And it's like, to me, it's why the movie has trans like transcended culture is because of the dresses and the way that she wears them. And yeah, there's no question.

2:00:09Bill Simmons:Do you have a probably unanswerable question for this movie? I mean, like I said, I'm wondering why she's named Tom, Tom. We can't find out unless they, they add more to it. I also would like to know what is the first issue of, of a sparkle that Judy, Judy grill be overseeing Lucy, Lucy. I want much more of her. Yeah. So I had, as my first one, who ultimately won the Poise versus Sparkle battle in the 2000s? I think the answer is neither. I think Us Weekly just knocks both of them out and it's over. Probably. I was subscribing to both, so that's true. My other answer, Bo, is the R-rated version of this movie is really interesting, and I'm glad they didn't do it, but there's a whole raunchier version of this movie that you probably can do with Cameron Diaz.

2:00:58Yeah.

2:00:58Bill Simmons:Where Jen has sex for the first time. But I don't think she can be 13 in that scenario. I think the R-rated version Mark Ruffalo already did, it's called Poor Things. Right, right. Where he's kind of in the same situation. Yeah. I watched him do a chicken shop date video just about that, actually. And he was like, yeah, I agree with you. Yeah. I don't think this movie makes$100 million and lives on forever if it's R. No. Memorability you'd most want from this movie, it's either the dollhouse or the dress. I think it's the jacket that she wears to work on the first day. It's that Nanette Lepore jacket that she wears over the slip dress for me.

2:01:34But I guess the famous Thriller dress is probably like the... The Thriller dress is making you the most money

2:01:39Bill Simmons:if you borrow it on eBay in 2010. Yes, definitely. The jacket Lily Reinhart just wore on her press tour. Like she got... She went to the designer. She had like one in her basement. She borrowed it and then gave it back. So it's like still... There's like a few of them out there. Wow. Yeah. This is great information, Juliette. Thanks. Really bringing it to the table. Thank you. I'm trying. Coach Finstock, Mr. Miyagi, we're best worst life lesson. I can give you, I don't want to be original. I want to be cool. I think that's a bad life lesson. Or you can't just turn back time. That's profound. That's really deep.

2:02:17Bill Simmons:Or slow down, you crazy child. You're so ambitious for a juvenile. Can I give you one from the great Kathy Baker? Those aren't real people, honey. Those are models. Hmm. I said, I love those. There's a great beginning for me. It's that double feature choice. I think it has to be big unless you want to do freaking Friday. I think it's big. I think you did big first, then this. Yeah. And also this movie like intentionally nods to big. So like it's inviting you to do that. So I think it's a pretty easy choice. And then who won the movie? Jennifer Garner. Jennifer Garner, obviously. I mean, she wins at so many things.

2:02:55Bill Simmons:Craig, come into the Zoom. What do you got for us? I'm not ashamed to admit I've never seen this movie. Oh, wow. It's shocking. I was nine years old and I was a boy. and I'm sure many nine-year-old boys my age did not watch this film. And, you know, by the time I was like 16, I was watching Superbad. I wasn't going back and watching 13, going on 30. This is one of Liz's favorite movies. She was extremely excited to watch this. I'm so not surprised to hear that. It was probably the most amp she's been for Rewatchables in a long time. Wow. I really enjoyed it. I was so impressed by Jennifer Garner who I didn't realize how little of a relationship I had to.

2:03:34Like, I see her,

2:03:36Bill Simmons:more around Brentwood than I think I've seen her in movies. Like I see her at my barbershop because she brings her kid in. And I, but I realized going through her IMDb, I'm like, Juno, she's in draft day with Costner. Like, uh, what else have I really seen her in? Ghost of Girlfriend's Past, I think I saw, but it's remarkable. You know, people talk about how there's like a joke that young people know of Paul Newman as like the guy from on salad dressings, you know, like they don't actually realized an actor. What Juliet said is completely true. I think the majority of people in their 20s probably think of Jennifer Garner as the Capital One lady who was married to Ben Affleck.

2:04:14Bill Simmons:And I just thought she was so good. I thought her physical acting was like amazing and really subtle. I think like even the scene in the beginning where she's waking up and it's more of the big broad stuff was great. But the whole movie, like even the way she's drinking the pina colada, she's taking these like giant gulps. Yeah. Because she's like so excited to drink it. Super impressed with her. thought she was totally like fantastic in it. And I actually think having seen this only for the first time as somebody in his early thirties, I kind of think this movie is better to see in your thirties than 13.

2:04:44I think you can appreciate the humor more.

2:04:46Bill Simmons:Big case for both. Yeah. Yeah. Because I watched my daughter live through it as she was growing up and she also loved it and really identified with the teen stuff. But my wife loved it because she saw it when she was in her thirties. There's a couple adult themes that are pretty good. I think the scene where she's trying to break up Ruffalo's wedding and Ruffalo has that moment where he was like, look, I'm going to marry this woman, all right? Like, you have to live with the consequences of the choices that you made. And she's like, okay, and she leaves. Which is like a pretty sad, poignant moment for a 13-year-old girl to like live with.

2:05:16Right.

2:05:16Bill Simmons:And then even when she's with her mom at the house and she's like, I'm sorry I didn't come to Christmas last year. I'm like, I'm at the age now where I'm like, wow. That's a real thing. Like, how often do you see your parents at that age? So, yeah, I thought this movie was really enjoyable. yeah you read it does flip the rom-com thing because you think in any rom-com they end up together at the wedding at you know she steals her way and they leave the wedding and they drive off end of the movie and this one he's like no i'm marrying this lady yeah you blew it yeah it's done it's good oh craig he's in yeah somebody's watching this one with his kids someday i also recently watched clueless for the first time that's insane that's crazy i don't know jesus which I think like I think 13 going on 30 holds up much better Clueless is really fun and charming but I think this movie ages better to watch as an adult Clueless is very yeah very of his age it's a time capsule yeah 1995 it's very shticky but this movie holds on 13 going on 30 is not as shticky no I think also LA has changed in a way in the movie that you can identify so much whereas with this movie New York they chose like kind of timeless locations the reality is the soundtrack of this movie will make this a 50 to 60 year run for this movie and the streamers.

2:06:31Bill Simmons:And it's just not going to go away. Yeah. And the mother-daughter aspect of it. Like there aren't that many movies like this. I think this is why Gilmore Girls is also so popular because people can watch it as a young person or with their mom or then as a mom. Like when you can capture both ends of like that spectrum, it lasts a very long time. 100%. This was great. Juliet, I had a fantastic time. Craig, thank you as always. Thanks to Gahau and Eduardo and Chris as well. And then we watched both sides. We will see you, uh, see you in a week.

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