‘Aliens’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

14:58Sean Fennessey:I feel pretty confident. I would actually put money on him making a movie, his next movie being a movie that's more in the real world. I don't think he's going to make another Avatar-style film next.

15:09Bill Simmons:Do you like those Avatar movies? I don't. I do. I don't. Craig, when did you see The Alien and Aliens? I've seen Alien many times, one of my favorite movies all time. I had not seen Aliens. I had been waiting to do the rewatchable story. Oh, man. And this is awesome. Are you a sequels guy? Sure, yeah. I mean, I liked all those movies that you guys listed out. I was happy we mentioned Dark Knight. Yeah. I mean, if it's done well, sure. There's been a lot of bad sequels, too. We didn't make that list. Of course. That's the problem with sequels, is they feel like money grabs, or they're just basically repeating the structure of the first movie.

15:42A lot of the third movies are just really, really, really tough scenes.

15:46Bill Simmons:I mean, you could argue in this movie they do repeat the structure of the second half of the movie in all these different ways. there are the same beats, right? They put Bishop in the tunnel. They hit a lot of the same notes. It's just left with her and somebody. It's the cat in the first movie. It's the little girl in the second movie. There's a countdown. James Cameron. You call him Jim or James? Jim. Big Jim. Big Jim? Yeah. I don't even know if he's that big. Was hired to write a story for Aliens in 83 because he had written scripts for The Terminator and Rambo First Blood Part 2. My kind of guy.

16:24Bill Simmons:Does the Terminator in 84. Rips off Terminator, Aliens, The Abyss, Terminator 2, True Lies, and Titanic. The Abyss is the worst movie of those six and still was a massive success and has a lot of Abyss fans. I think they might like it more than that. Big swing. No, I'm saying the worst of those six. It's a pretty high floor. Sure. When that's the worst one. He had no stinkers. And I would argue if he had just made Terminator, Aliens, Terminator 2, and Titanic, and just made those four movies, that's as good of a four as anyone's ever made.

16:58Sean Fennessey:He's in the Hall of Fame. We've been talking a lot about who you can compare Chris Nolan to after the Odyssey and the people who are taking on these huge, big tentpole things. And I kept saying Cecil B. DeMille's name. There's a very short list of people who are like, what I do is I'm the biggest filmmaker at the biggest time in movie history, and I'm pushing the medium forward on the biggest stage. and Cameron was that guy for 25 years. I mean, for a really long period of time, he was the single most grand stage filmmaker that we had.

17:31Bill Simmons:Well, it's like when you guys guest hosted my pod, you were talking about Nolan being the guy that pushes things ahead. Which is not something you necessarily thought he was going to do at the beginning of his career. Right, so Cameron was the original guy and then basically passed the torch to him. Was there anybody in between? of somebody who's just Peter Jackson half a decade ahead of wherever else is yeah that's a good call oh Peter Jackson

17:55Sean Fennessey:that's definitely right and similarly I think evolved like the craft of movies and the way that like CGI looked and worked in those films yeah and maybe got a little lost in his toys yeah and also made movies that people thought never would be made right you know the same way when you saw Titanic you're like I didn't think anyone could ever pull this off

18:13Bill Simmons:I wonder what the next iteration of that is I don't know I mean the thing about Just people punching you in the face as you watch the movie? Jackson, Nolan, Cameron, Spielberg, is that for as much as they put a dinosaur on screen or put, you know, the Lord of the Rings on screen or put, you know, an atomic weapon goes off on screen, they all have chops. You know, like, they all, to varying degrees, know, like, how someone is supposed to move across a frame of film and how action sequences are cut and how action sequences need to build up and then release. And there's just like genuine filmmaking chops that go back to John Ford with those guys.

18:54And a lot of action directors, I think modern action directors, don't understand that stuff. Like the most fascinating interviews I read about Cameron or with Cameron are when he's talking about editing action sequences by far because he's doing things that I think are on like kind of an almost other level than anyone I've ever read when he's talking about how he like flops the footage that he's cutting so that he can retrain his eye to not anticipate when cuts are coming. I mean, it's just like that's savant stuff. I mean, like to think about how the audience is going to respond to like the tempo and the feeling of like your editing of an action sequence is remarkable.

19:35Sean Fennessey:There's something cool with him too, where he has the same background as all the new Hollywood guys that we revere like Scorsese and De Palma, where he got started with Roger Corman. He worked in special effects and production design on movies like Galaxy of Terror and Battle Beyond the Stars. And so he was like a hands-on builder of movies before he was a movie director. Did he work on Escape from New York? He did work on Escape from New York. Solid movie. So he knows how every piece of the puzzle works. He understands how everything fits together.

20:10Bill Simmons:and that's kind of like Craig with podcasts that's true a host and a producer he's produced he's edited he knows how to cut social that's right yeah he's like the James Cameron of podcasts

20:20Sean Fennessey:he can do everyone's job better than they can and that's why he is

20:28Sean Fennessey:so I think because he knows how to do all that stuff so well Peter Jackson's not dissimilar like started out you know with a lot of like very handmade movies so there's a reason that these movies there's so much attention to detail I feel this way about the Avatar movies, even if you don't like the Avatar movies, he's doing things right now that I think we're going to look at in 25 years and be like, well, this is the person who invented this. And this thing that is much more common, and there's so many shitty versions of now, the Avatar films paved the way for this, and that might seem like a sin, but it's actually going to be the best example of that kind of work.

20:58Bill Simmons:Also, maybe the only Canadian curmudgeon we've ever had. Well, are there other Canadian curmudgeons? If the tariffs keep going this way, we'll probably have some more curmudgeons. You know, like... Canadians are like famously good natured but maybe after about 12 beers we're ready to throw down he is an old school this is not a democracy filmmaker yeah when it comes to like I can't wait to talk about this stuff like it sounds like he's pretty collaborative in some ways but not with English people when it comes to yeah he does not like you must love that tea time this is I've never been more down with James Cameron than doing the research of this the crew being like no no this is what we should take a tea break in the middle of this movie this is where we take our tea break He's like, what?

21:41Motherfuckers get to work. The other thing I really love about, especially his early period, and kind of harkens back to an earlier era of a filmmaker, although Scorsese and lots of people are like this, is he has his guys. And his guys are in his movies, and he picked the right guys.

21:58Bill Simmons:That's how I would be if I was a director. But I would just have, who's, like, Michael Biehn.

22:05Sean Fennessey:Yeah, I want to talk about Michael Biehn.

22:06Bill Simmons:It's like, I'm throwing, oh, James Remar flamed out. I'll get my guy, Bean. Here he is. You do have your guys. You got Sal. You got House.

22:14Sean Fennessey:You got Jacko. You got your team.

22:16Bill Simmons:You got CR. What about you? What about Sean? Sean? Yeah. Craig? Christopher Guest is like that, too. He's like, I love Fred Willard. Every movie I make, he's going to be in it. It's true. And he was never wrong to do so. Bomback with Eric Stoltz. I know. Nolan has a bunch of his guys. No doubt. Yeah. But yeah, I like, who are Tarantino's guys? Sam Jackson. Who delivers? Well, Sam Jackson's too pricey now for him.

22:39Sean Fennessey:No.

22:39Bill Simmons:You need the more like... Tim Roth, Sam Jackson. Tim Roth is a Tarantino. That's a good Tarantino guy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Uma Thurman. Did the two Aliens movies change how we regarded outer space? This is a theme I want to throw at you guys because I'm older than you. And when I was growing up as a kid, outer space was Lost in Space, the TV show. It was Star Trek. it was a little scary but not too much it was friendly we were in control of things out there we landed on the moon maybe there's some stuff out there but I think we're okay and then right around here it's like there's some shit out there dudes well but right around here we're also getting E.T.

23:24Sean Fennessey:right that was what I was going to say too but E.T.

23:26Bill Simmons:was friendly he wanted to help us I know that's what I'm saying we're getting close encounters like we just want to study you guys and not hurt anyone I know I think

23:32Sean Fennessey:that the Alien franchise has this interesting relationship to Spielberg and Spielberg's conception of extraterrestrials because E.T. feels a little bit like it's not a direct response to Alien but it's like a bounce off of the fear that Alien stokes in the culture. It's a glass half empty E.T. And this movie is kind of like the rejection of the warm fuzzy alien creature that comes more into the form like movies like Explorers and like there's a bunch of movies that come out in the 80s that are also post E.T. that are like friendlier alien life movies. Yes. And this movie is a rejection of that.

24:06Sean Fennessey:But this movie, I also think, is so... Jurassic Park owes this movie so, so, so much because everything that you see in the Stan Winston creature design and the way that the world is built and the way that the chases and the fear works, I had never really realized how much the kitchen sequence with the raptors in Jurassic Park owes to the chase sequences through the lab and the tunnels in this movie. Like when Burke traps her with the alien in the med bay. Exactly. And it's the same creature designer. It's Stan Winston who's like a genius of designing these creatures and putting them on screen.

24:43Sean Fennessey:And there's this interesting thing where this franchise in particular is like one of the only things in the culture that can kind of go toe-to-toe with Spielberg over this period of time. And it almost feels like they're in this unspoken like one-upmanship game that I really like. And on the other side

24:59Bill Simmons:you have like Star Trek IV. where they're like, beam down there and we'll just shoot some aliens and beam back up. We'll call it a day. I think there's probably also... One of the things that I think is really influential about this iteration of the alien story is creating a real cynicism about institutions and about companies and about companies that get too big and companies that exist outside of the law. And that's been something that I think the TV series that just came out on FX Alien Earth is very focused on is like, why would a company want something like that and bring it back to Earth?

25:39What's the hubris it would take to think that you could control that? So I think that that also has something to do with Jurassic Park where it's like, these guys who are like, I can master the thing that can't be mastered, you know?

25:50Bill Simmons:Would you compare this to how the fantasy guys did the fantasy draft order for our league this year? You know, honestly, as a shareholder in the fantasy draft, I'm thoughtless.

26:03Sean Fennessey:Why were we not asked to participate? Were you going to wrangle 12 people to come in and swing golf clubs? We're doing it on Friday. And you're not coming. I had signed up. Until I knew my fate was going to be relying on DK shanking it into the Pacific Ocean. He didn't know it was your ball. It's randomized. It's just literally random. It's just a fun way to pick out of a hat.

26:24Bill Simmons:Freely admitting he'd never swing a golf club. It's shameful. What a shameful act. It was random. Hit for Heifetz, right? the balls were random we didn't know which balls we were hitting we all took four shots each we had no idea whose ball it was it's the same sin as last year when you hit mine there was a little bit of like Luke Skywalker put the blast shield down I felt you in my ear

26:43Sean Fennessey:it's over confidence in your own ideas there was no there was no vetting with the rest of the crew how this should work this is Avatar yeah

26:51Bill Simmons:that's right it's a Cameron-esque move it's random Craig does your generation fear outer space or like great pivot To speak for my entire generation? Yeah, we're 35 and under. Outer space. To be honest with you? Glass half full or glass half empty? Well, I feel like it wasn't until Elon started talking about going to Mars that it felt relevant to us. I feel like space has been irrelevant. I was just going to say that.

27:13Sean Fennessey:I was going to say, is it we don't think about you at all with space? Space has not really been a part of my childhood and my experience. Yeah, I feel like American culture just pressed pause on space in general.

27:24Bill Simmons:It felt like the 80s. There was just so much conversation about it. Yeah. What else is out there? Then the movies start.

27:30Sean Fennessey:And you just did Apollo 13, and I feel like in the 90s, there was this kind of swoon of nostalgia for astronauts. And then that is right when it kind of started to trickle off. To me, honestly— Conspiracy culture didn't help. Yeah, that's true. Did we go at all? The fact that all of the mega-rich dudes are the ones leading whatever space race there is now, it just makes me feel like I'm either never going to be able to afford to go there, or if I do wind up there, I'm going to be mining on Mars. Right, it's true. I'm going to be working on some farm for— and that's what these movies

28:00Bill Simmons:Total Recall is about the same thing for sure you know but like Total Recall is really important for this conversation too because that's four years later it's equally like really cool not as detailed as Aliens but a really awesome movie similar thing but that's like now we're like okay weird shit's out there this could go really bad be careful and all that cynicism

28:18Sean Fennessey:that Chris is talking about is in that movie too where it's sort of like you're just a cog in the machine and there's bigger forces at play that are controlling you and even if we have created a society where we can get to outer worlds and travel across the universe, it's still the same old shit as it is here on Earth.

28:35Bill Simmons:You know what's interesting though? With the books and the radio shows from like the 30s, 40s, and 50s, there's a lot of outer space stuff and like War of the Worlds. But I think part of the problem is we just couldn't make movies and TV shows that looked realistic for what we would have thought like going to a plane would be. So we didn't really have the technology until this movie. Speaking of Total Recall. ET doesn't go anywhere, it's here.

28:56Sean Fennessey:Cameron had the whole cast read Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers novel, which I think was written in like the early 50s, and then was eventually made into a movie in the 90s, which is a movie that it owes like a huge debt to aliens, and that was written by the same author that wrote Total Recon, right? You like that movie? Oh, no. Dick did Total Recon. No, you're right, you're right. Yeah, but still... Sorry, same director as Total Recon. Kind of speculative ideas about like, yeah. So it's all related, and this movie is just like insanely influential in terms of like what a sci-fi action movie can be.

29:29Bill Simmons:It's a before-after movie. And there's different genres for that, right? Like even Halloween is a before-after movie. It's like they make Halloween. Horror movies are just different after Halloween. I think the same thing for this. There's one other interesting thing that I never really considered until I was doing all the research for this about this movie that I just, I wasn't smart enough when I saw it in high school, but there's like a weird Vietnam parallel to this movie. This is very funny because I was reading about, I was doing my research, and Cameron's pretty heavy on this. He's like, this is about a guerrilla force.

30:03This is an allegory for what happened. And then if you read Paxton interviews, Bill Paxton's like, I don't know about that shit.

30:10Bill Simmons:But this was at the tail end of the, like we did a podcast about this, the kind of reckoning of America and Vietnam, which basically starts with movies. When are we doing Nam Month? would you be interested in Namath? definitely if we get that sponsored? by who?

30:27Sean Fennessey:who would sponsor Namath? I mean you gotta consider Namath two things

30:30Bill Simmons:sponsored by Michelob Ultra

30:32Sean Fennessey:I feel like this is a huge line of conversation about this movie so obviously he'd just written Rambo part 2 yeah first blood part 2 and so that's on his mind as he's writing that movie because that's what that genre and there's three a year coming out about

30:45Bill Simmons:we gotta go back we have guilt about what we did missing in action this is 86

30:49Sean Fennessey:this is the year of Platoon This is when this is all happening. And there's these great stories about these two guys who turned down parts in full metal jacket to do Aliens. And they're kind of the same movie. I mean, they're about many of the same things.

31:01Bill Simmons:We shouldn't go back. Why are we going? What are we getting out of this? This was stupid. We're trapped here. We can't get out. Basically the same thing. Pretty interesting. I missed it for 40 years, but now I'm here.

31:13Sean Fennessey:Yeah, it seems obvious, but I think it's just as simple as launching you 100 years into the future and putting you on another planet and you get so swept up in that world that you're only viewing it about the consequences of the characters. All the coming out of the wall stuff, all the like, I was short, I was going to be out of here in four weeks. Like you could take that dialogue and put it in a Vietnam War movie.

31:34Bill Simmons:Sigourney Weaver. One of the all-time fearless, great action movie performances by an actress. Linda Hamilton, T2, Charlize Thierry Road, Uma, Kill Bill, Sigourney I think that's Mount Rushmore Anybody else? It's an awesome list It's like the four that stand out above anything else you could throw It's the movie I always wanted Angelina to make and she never made We were talking about that with Flops where it was like she has a couple where you're like she's scratching at it but she never got there There's a six year run Yeah, Tomb Raider but she never had a movie like this but that's like once a decade

32:14Sean Fennessey:Yeah, I mean a lot of it is the filmmaker this is the only one that's ever been nominated for Best Actress. That's the other thing is that this kind of performance doesn't get acknowledged in a wider way. It's kind of just like set to the dustbin of genre. But she's in this place where she's this highly skilled actor who can work in a lot of different kinds of movies. And a couple of years later, she wins an Academy Award for Gorillas in the Mist. And she's also coming off of Ghostbusters. so like like is there a more versatile actress in all of Hollywood at this time

32:48Bill Simmons:Marlee Matlin wins for Children of a Lesser God Sierra and I just did this for about last night we wondered if Demi Moore could have snuck in there

32:55Sean Fennessey:I honestly thought you were just going to say we just did Children of a Lesser God on their watch and I didn't know about it I was like holy shit Jane Fonda

33:02Bill Simmons:Morning After Sissy Spacek Crimes of the Heart Kathleen Turner Peggy Sue Got Married and Sigourney for Aliens I at the time I don't think it was controversial and I think Marlee Matlin's really great in that movie. So it's a tough one, but I don't know who else could have been in this movie in 1986.

33:20Sean Fennessey:Yeah, it's a historic Oscar win. There was a really good documentary about Marlee Matlin that came out a couple of years ago. And when you learn about what her relationship with William Hurt was like and what she was going through, I had a lot of empathy for her life and experience, but it's an easy one to be like, no one has seen Children of the Lesser God. It's a movie that kind of disappeared from the culture.

33:40Bill Simmons:Yeah, five-year Oscar. she probably still wins but I think if we go 40 years later Oscars this is also a very cool story of Sigourney kind of betting on herself and being like if you want me you're gonna have to see TC and I have some notes about what I think the characters could do it's like what you pulled was see our ear that's right well Rich was a very effective negotiator you're like I need my own month for the rewatchables I need LeBron James in a Sixers uniform I'm just imagining I need to do Aliens Rich on Game Over, doing like a whiteboard of like, here are all the places Chris can go.

34:15Also, the name of his show is Game Over, man.

34:19Bill Simmons:Max is like, so you're dealing with a talent like Chris Ryan. How much are you talking to him every week?

34:28Sean Fennessey:Oh, you busted out your Kellerman. Yeah.

34:31Bill Simmons:Is it something where you go back and forth with Bill Simmons and then you talk to Chris Ryan? How do you handle that? Can I give you Sigourney's 79? Will you blind call Max Kellerman? I'm going to bring Max in later for the director's commentary. Alien, Ghostbusters, Aliens, and Working Girl were her four best in like an 11-year span. But she also had Eyewitness, You're Living Dangerously, Deal of Century, Gorillas in the Mist, Ghostbusters 2. You could only Deal of the Century is bad. All those other movies are good. And Eyewitness is like just a 10 out of 10 Tubi movie. See it on Tubi, just press play.

35:08Sean Fennessey:So at my birthday party that you were at a couple weeks ago, a friend came and he pulled the, I'm trying to get you some physical media that you don't own. And he gave me three discs. And one of them was a copy of Eyewitness, which is very rare. And I didn't own it. He nailed it. Was it Elon Musk? Well, it was not. He was not invited to my birthday party.

35:31Bill Simmons:So I didn't prep you for this. I didn't prep you for this. And it's going to make you mad that I didn't. Okay, great. You can make a case that Sigourney won the 80s for actresses. I'm going to go through the 70s, 80s, 90s, zeros, and 2010s. I think it's Meryl. Well, here we go. For the 80s? Yeah, because we just did this on the big picture. Hold on. 70s. It's Faye Dunaway and Jane Fonda in the finals. Yes. Diane Keaton's not in there? I don't think so. Diane Keaton's in The Godfather and Annie Hall. I don't think she's as big as either of those two. He doesn't get Diane Keaton. I do get Diane Keaton.

36:06Bill Simmons:I just don't think she was as big as Jane Fonda in the 70s. Can we slip Annie Hall into Vietnam? Jane Fonda was leading major movies for 10 years and getting Oscar nominations and winning Oscars.

36:15Sean Fennessey:As was Diane Keaton. Yeah. All true for Diane Keaton as well.

36:19Bill Simmons:I would say second half of the 70s for Diane Keaton all the way through for Jane Fonda. Maybe. Continue your list. Same for Faye Dunaway. Yeah.

36:27Sean Fennessey:I think all three of them are in a healthy conversation.

36:29Bill Simmons:I have Diane third for that one. 80s Sigourney versus Meryl Streep in the finals. Sigourney, more movies that would be on this podcast. That's what I was going to say. Meryl with the hardware.

36:43Sean Fennessey:Yeah. Sigourney is in better films at that time, but having just watched Cry in the Dark for the first time, I'd never seen that. Meryl Streep's performance in that movie is astonishing. It is like, there's a reason that she is who she is. Is that Dingo Ate My Baby? Yeah. And I'd never seen that movie. I mean, Silkwood. I was randomly watching.

37:05Bill Simmons:Soby's Choice is in the 80s. I was watching Heartburn on Pluto this week. Heartburn's an awesome. Great movie. She's fucking awesome in that movie. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what Jack Nicholson's doing in that movie, but it's enjoyable. I don't know what he's going for. He's playing Carl Bernstein. We might have to do that on Rewatchables. It's a really good race. It's a great race. 90s get interesting because there's no, like, dominant awesome actress unless you want to go back with Meryl, but you basically, it's down to Julia, Meg Ryan, and Rene Russo, who I think actually, you could make a case, wins the 90s because she's in the most fun movies.

37:35Bill Simmons:In the Line of Fire, Lethal Weapon 3. She's in Tin Cup. Yeah. Thomas Crown Affair. Thomas Crown. Like, she's got bangers year after year after year. I think even, I can't remember if Major League was that or not, but she's just all the way through. She's in everything. The Zero Zeros, I think it's Winslet or Angelina. And it's probably Kate Winslet wins.

37:56Sean Fennessey:That's interesting.

37:58Bill Simmons:Yeah, I mean, at what point... Tough for one for actresses. At what point does Kate Blanchett get into this conversation, too? Maybe third place. And then the 10s. I think Emma Stone wins the 10s. Yeah. J-Law's in there but not totally. It probably could have been better. But anyway, the point is Sigourney's in the finals in the 80s. Wow. I knew this would blow Sean's mind. Wish I'd prepare for this. I know. I'm sorry. Lots of take - I thought of it this morning as I was having coffee. No argument for me. I mean, it is an incredible run. It is really an incredible run.

38:24Sean Fennessey:I like what you said too. I mean, she's, well one, she still works with Cameron. She's in all the Avatar movies and she's still active. She was in like three movies she's in her 70s and she can do any kind of part she can still she's such a unique looking person there's no one who looks like Sigourney Weaver she's in the friggin Mandalorian right yeah she was very tall very physical but not like muscular per se but just like imposing but also very sensitive can be really deep there's just great stuff with a little girl in this movie that is like you know that sequence where the little girl asks her about did you have a daughter and she tells her and she says she's gone you know like that scene is really that's like a powerful scene she gets to be a much different person in aliens than she was in Alien.

39:04I mean, not just because of the 57-year nap, but because of like... So, did you ever date anyone as tall as Sigourney? I only dated one girl taller than me. It was awkward. It was awkward. How'd that go? Awkward. Yeah. Say more. How tall? Like three inches, I think. I thought you were going to say like six-eight.

39:26Bill Simmons:Six-eight volleyball player? Yeah.

39:27Sean Fennessey:You had the climber.

39:29Bill Simmons:Three inches. I think so, yeah. Did you feel like you had to wear like thicker sneakers on the bottom? No, but it was just like, it was awkward in the way you would imagine. Craig, what's the shortest girl you ever dated? Maybe a 5 '4". Okay. That's the shortest girl you ever dated? Because Craig's like a sneaky 6 '2 and a half. Have you ever dated somebody? You couldn't. Like you'd have to. My girlfriend in college was 6 feet. No kidding. No shit. Tall, skinny Irish lady. Wow. Lady? Yeah, she was great. Was she an athlete? No. Just tall? Yeah. all skinny Irish lady you still in touch? no okay I'm not in touch with anyone

40:05Sean Fennessey:this wasn't the aliens girl though

40:07Bill Simmons:no it was that let's take a break and we'll talk about the one and only Bill Paxton I'm gonna look right to the camera for the break for this this episode is brought to you by Angry Orchard Hard Cider Halloween's just better with a scary movie and something good to drink Angry Orchard's limited edition glow-in-the-dark thriller variety pack is the perfect companion it even includes a mystery flavor can featuring the iconic ghost face from Scream. Don't get angry. Get Orchard this Halloween. Find Angry Orchard in a store near you or visit angryorchard.com. Angry Orchard Cider Company LLC. Angryorchard.com.

40:48Bill Simmons:Please drink responsibly. Angry Orchard is a hard cider with other natural flavors. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Shave ice by the beach. A trip to the state fair. and a throwback flick at the local drive-in. They're more than just items to check off the summer bucket list. There are also opportunities to earn 2 % daily cash back when you use your Apple Card with Apple Pay. Apply for Apple Card now. Use in minutes with Apple Pay. Subject to credit approval, Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at applecard.com. Bill Paxton. From weird science to this.

41:32Bill Simmons:I just wrote down, immediately goaded. His perception of this character was that it would be a person that the audience couldn't wait to see die. And I've never heard someone lack perspective on their own performance like this in my life. Yeah. One of the greatest crimes ever committed against America's cultural inheritance and legacy is that Hudson doesn't get in an escape pod and go off and have other adventures that we can have 10 movies just with Private Hudson traveling the galaxy. Yeah, we have that category, right? Could this movie, it's the Proof of Life David Caruso category. Should this character have been spun off?

42:12Is there any movie that Private Hudson crash landing into and going, what the fuck are we going to do now, man? Like, wouldn't that make every movie better?

42:21Bill Simmons:Rom-coms, thrillers. Boogie Nights.

42:24Sean Fennessey:There's a case that this movie has more potential winners of that category than in any movie that we've done. Yeah. Because there's so many people who you'd want to see on intergalactic adventures. It makes it... The reason this movie works is because you care about 80 % of the people who get God. You're just like, oh, no, not this guy. I was trying to think about... Not Wersbowski!

42:47Bill Simmons:I was trying to think about... We talked about a little when he died, but I was trying to think of a non-A-lister who had a higher approval rating. I was just thinking about this. It's a classic, like, what person... and well Dolly Parton was an A-lister though. Oh non-A-lister. Yeah.

43:01Sean Fennessey:Yeah he got close because he was in so many big movies. He's in fucking Titanic. You know? Yeah. He did Twister. He did Twister Titanic.

43:07Bill Simmons:He was real close. Because I never feel like he was like a Hanks, Costner, Cruise level. But he's like an A-lister.

43:15Sean Fennessey:But like all the way up to was Edge of Tomorrow his last movie? I can't remember what his last movie was. But you know same thing seeing him in that movie I was like this is going to be a good movie.

43:22Bill Simmons:Always fun to just see him. Yeah. Like oh Bill Paxton's in this. I was wondering there's definitely a new rewatchables category for him just from this movie. We've danced around this for over 450 movies. Craig suggested it a couple times. It's better than a Dion Waiters because he's in the movie too much. So it can't really be a Dion Waiters. So it's almost like I wrote down the Private Hudson Game Over Man category for kind of a full movie Dion Waiters. yeah it's like I'm not it's like almost like Belushi in About Last Night it's like the sneaky star

44:00Sean Fennessey:of the movie Chris and I just talked about Tony on the pod and Leah Woodall is in Tony and he's like the third lead of Tony and the way I think about it is the guy who picks up the movie and walks away with it like the person who doesn't like if it's not the right actor then you wouldn't think as much about their character but when you're watching Tony for 20 minutes you're like this guy's the star of this movie and there's times when you're like Hudson is the most entertaining person on screen and he's on screen with the woman who'll be nominated for an Academy Award and Michael Bean, who's like one of the coolest action stars in the 1980s.

44:29Bill Simmons:So who's the basketball version of that? It's almost like Porzingis in the 24 playoffs for the Celtics. I couldn't care less about that.

44:37Sean Fennessey:Coming in and switch. I mean, it was OG Ananobi for the Knicks this year. Yeah, that's a really good one. He wasn't an A-lister, but there was a moment in the playoffs where he took over and he was everyone's favorite Knick and he was the one who was deciding games. Yes. Yes, that's a perfect example.

44:51Bill Simmons:I don't want to name a rewatchables category after a Knick. Okay. so we'll give it to the 2024 Chris Stapps maybe not either I'll figure out a good one for this but it might just be the Private Hudson game over man yeah it's like a full it's like a Dan Waiters 2.0 he's playing like 35 minutes he's doing all kinds of shit also does he have

45:16Sean Fennessey:all of the most memorable lines from the movie I have for my flex I have 10 of them

45:21Bill Simmons:there you go we'll come back to him later We also have Michael Biehn as Dwayne Hicks. Most unlikely Dwayne in a while. Kind of a Reggie Cleveland. James Remar is not a Dwayne. Dwayne Hicks is like the Browns took Dwayne Hicks. He's going to be a great defensive end. He went to the University of Miami. Instead, Michael Biehn as Dwayne Hicks. Paul Reiser as Burke. Elite film performance. We're in prime Paul Reiser territory here because he's between two cops. This is his first act, his first movie performance. Well, he was in Cop 1, wasn't he? Yeah, he was in Cop 1. Very briefly. Cop 2, very important.

45:58Bill Simmons:Yes. And then eventually I'm mad about you. A show that was mocked for years and years by people my age. Not bad. Very sappy. Sure. Lance Henriksen as Bishop, the android. Can't wait to talk about him. Carrie Henn as Newt. I think this was it for her. For one and only. Yeah. And then Mark Ralston as Drake. yeah Mark Ralston I could be a friend to you

46:27Bill Simmons:anybody come at you yet

46:33Bill Simmons:oh sweetie he played Boggs in Shawshank the head of the sisters the rapist one of your favorite film characters well no you're really you're going when I come in and Ralston's just like Like a box. It was like glamour headshot. Last I heard, he was eating his food through a straw. So he's in this. And then, I don't know if you have any William Hope as Gorman thoughts? I mean, he was the other guy who was trying to decide between doing Full Metal Jacket and this. Never really fully happened for William Hope. He's definitely like a worker. And then finally, Jeanette Goldstein. Yes. As Vasquez. A casting that just would not happen.

47:19Bill Simmons:Our greatest Mexican thespian. Yes.

47:21Sean Fennessey:Truly a cinematic icon. I think one of the most exciting, life-changing characters of the 1980s for many men and women. And also a wildly politically incorrect choice. I got to say, I didn't know for 20 years

47:39Bill Simmons:that she wasn't Latina. You were like, I wonder who Jeanette Goldstein plays this movie. I just thought her mom was Mexican or something. I didn't know.

47:50Sean Fennessey:No. I knew a lot of Jeanette Goldstein's on Long Island. I can tell you that.

47:53Bill Simmons:Were you attracted to Vasquez, Craig? I'd probably pick Ripley. Okay. Lean Ripley.

48:00Sean Fennessey:You like him taller? Sure. I was attracted to Vasquez, in case you were curious. I love Vasquez. She pops. How could you not love Vasquez?

48:08Bill Simmons:A couple categories for her later. Just quickly, I don't want to go through all the details of how hard it was to make this movie, but we had, they're going to make a sequel. Alan Ladd Jr.'s President of Fox. He leaves. replacement doesn't want to make it thinks it's too expensive the two producers from the first movie walter hill and gordon carroll start suing fox for unpaid profits from aliens so now the movie's dead cameron writes a treatment anyway studio and they try to sell it the sequel to my guys mario kassar and andrew jay andrew g bochner who i still don't think were real people i think There were fronts for an Iranian movie company.

48:49Bill Simmons:They made some of your favorite movies ever, right? Just two of the goats. Lawrence Gordon takes over Fox. He's like, what are we doing? Let's do this. He's like, I would have had Alien 2 up and running two years ago. Cameron's like, I can't do it yet because Schwarzenegger was making Conan the Destroyer, which he was contractually forced to make, delays Terminator for nine months. So now they're just on hold. and that gives Cameron more time to basically develop the whole story. So it turns out to be the best thing for the movie. He's got nine months to basically work on this. He wants to direct.

49:23Bill Simmons:They're like, who the fuck are you? You've made Piranha 2. That's not happening. Terminator comes out. They're like, you'd love to direct? That sounds great. He's married to his producer, Galen Hurd. Dating or married.

49:37Sean Fennessey:They're not yet married. They're about to get married.

49:39Bill Simmons:They want a budget. Fox lowballs them they quit so now it's dead again and then resuscitated they want Sigourney Weaver Fox is like she's going to want too much money can't do it they quit again comes back they get married movie gets greenlit there's one really great wrinkle of the Sigourney negotiations that gets reported a bunch which is that they're going back and forth about her salary and whether she's going to do it and it seems like she's not and they're hitting some sort of deadline and Cameron calls Schwarzenegger's agent and is like, well, we're going to quit because it sounds like she's not going to do it or she's taking too long.

50:18And it leaks back to Sigourney's agent. And so Sigourney then is pushed to...

50:24Sean Fennessey:Was it that or was it they were inquiring about Schwarzenegger's availability? No, I think it was because the threat he used I thought they rope-a-doped it. The threat he used was that Newt would be older and would be the star of the movie. Oh, I see. And that they would get a different person and basically transpose a lot of Ripley stuff on the Newt. Rich, before CR, the year of CR,

50:46Bill Simmons:you made it clear to Barstool that CR might be interested in potentially leaving. How did you play that out with the Ringer and Barstool? If you went to Barstool,

50:57Sean Fennessey:would it be it's the Chris Ryan show with Chris Ryan? Or would you, like, how would you, would you, like, seek your own kind of micro empire? Like, how would you want to do it?

51:06Bill Simmons:Would you be Barstool CR or Barstool Chris?

51:08Sean Fennessey:I would just go to be Dave's Andy Richter. I think that would be... I think the Lord of the Feet of the Master. You're on the side when he's eating pizza? Like when he's doing emergency press conferences, molding the key light.

51:22Great one, El Prez.

51:23Bill Simmons:Love that.

51:30Well, they make the movie,

51:32Bill Simmons:and it goes terribly during the movie. And people are quit. He fires his AD. Horrible shoot. Rarely in the Rewatchables research, does somebody fire their AD and their cinematographer? We could just say, he shot this at Pinewood in England. The deal with Pinewood back then, I don't know if it still is, but back then is you shoot at Pinewood, you use Pinewood people. Like the crews that are there, a lot of the artisans that are there. And they're used to doing it their way. And so Cameron would show up and Dick Bush, a great name, shot sorcerer, was the cinematographer. And he was like, cool, I'm going to light this.

52:08You can have your ideas, but we light things in a certain way and Cameron was like, what the fuck are you doing in my movie? And finally got rid of him, brought in Adrian Biddle, who's Ridley Scott's cinematographer at the time.

52:20Sean Fennessey:He's not yet. He's not. He's only on commercials. It's a great story about Adrian Biddle coming in because Biddle was the focus puller on Alien. And so he's working. He was only the camera guy. He was only the camera guy. He tries to hire the cinematographer from Alien and he's not available. So he hires this guy, Adrian Biddle, who was like a professional swimmer in the 60s and an underwater photographer noticed his skills and hired him to work on on Her Majesty's Secret Service to take photographs. And then he gets involved in photographs, filmmaking. He starts working for Ridley. He's the cinematographer on the 1984 Apple commercial.

52:58Sean Fennessey:No way. That blows up. And then his first movie that he gets is Aliens on Ridley's recommendation. and then he goes on to shoot Princess Bride, Thelma and Louise, Event Horizon. He goes on to make all these great movies. So it's this amazing sliding doors thing where also Ripley and Cameron have this like, they respect each other. But not like a lot. It's a little chilly. Yeah. But he does give him Adrian Biddle.

53:22Bill Simmons:It's like he's making aliens too. You're kind of rooting against it if you're Ridley Scott. It is kind of weird. It's like we don't really see this a lot. I guess maybe the Star Wars sequels had a little bit of this, but we don't really see franchises that go up for grabs. Like usually someone's like, I fucking own this. Like Chris Nolan's like, I run this Dark Knight trilogy. Like this turned into like, Ridley had been interested in making another one. He gives like a 1984 interview where he essentially broadly sketches out Alien 2 would be basically what Prometheus winds up being. It's like the origins of the alien species and all the mythology behind it.

54:00and well I disagree with you there but the point being I just don't think that should have been Alien 2 but then like Cameron coming in well I'll save this for later but Cameron coming in like changes who's the author of the franchise the truth is

54:12Sean Fennessey:is that the real authors not authors but the real controllers are Guyler and Walter Hill yes those producers those are the guys who have been allowing this to kind of continue to roll out over the years and there's been a lot of you know Daniel Bannon is a figure in this too in terms of like who really owns the ideas of Alien

54:28Bill Simmons:pretty big fuck up by Ridley Scott I'm not letting go of the alien franchise.

54:31Sean Fennessey:And he's not letting go of it now. Like, he keeps coming back to it now because it's such a big part of his legacy. He's gotten multiple guys let go from the sequels. Today, it was announced that he's developing another alien movie around David, the Michael Fassbender character from Prometheus.

54:45Bill Simmons:So, this movie took so long to finish that it barely got done. They barely scored it in time. They didn't even have time to test it, et cetera, et cetera. Doing a category before we even get to Roger Ebert. the Steven Seagal Shitting on Himself Award for most unbelievable anecdote from the actual film shoot. Filming concludes at Pinewood. Cameron tells the crew, quote, this has been a long and difficult shoot fraught by many problems, but the one thing that kept me going through it all was the certain knowledge that one day I would drive out the gate of Pinewood and never come back and that you sorry bastards would still be here.

55:22Bill Simmons:That's how I closed the shoot. BS's last day at Spotify. Cameron. I mean, that really should have been my last day at ESPN. That's how Sean quit doing her fantasy league. I should have gone to Bristol and said that and left. Why didn't I think of that? Could have flown into Bristol. Guys meeting. Amazing stuff. Alien Universe. Two more sequels. Three in Resurrection. Alien Romulus. TV series Alien Earth. Prometheus. Covenant. And then Covenant. Just keeps going and going.

55:55Sean Fennessey:Covenant. Have you seen Covenant? Do I need to? I think you would like it. It's very scary. It's really cool. Yeah. And it's actually the one that is pretty close to this, just in terms of its insane violence. How many years ago? And intensity. It's 2017, I think.

56:11Bill Simmons:$18.5 million budget made, allegedly,$183 million. I have to think it made more than that. Probably some shaky accounting. It's printed money since it's had like 15 different releases over the years. That's the thing. You have what you allegedly made from the movie, but if you spawn 10 sequels, I feel like that's gotta... I think I've accidentally bought this movie like eight times. Is this movie rated R? Yeah.

56:34Sean Fennessey:I can't remember. If it is, it's gotta be one of the highest degrees of I snuck into this movie. I think it was rated R.

56:42Bill Simmons:Ebert, three and a half stars. I've never seen a movie that maintains such a pitch of intensity for so long. It's like being on some kind of hair-raising carnival ride that never stops. The movie made me feel bad. It filled me with feelings of unease, disquiet, and anxiety. I walked outside. I didn't want to talk to anyone. But then he said, it is a superb example of filmmaking craft. Raj, tough summer for Raj on the Rewatchables. He's really been all over the map. It's interesting to read accounts from back then of this movie because Gail Ann Hurd has a story of going into a screening of it somewhere and a couple's on a date and the woman's gripping the chair so hard that she breaks the armrest.

57:26And I'm like, I think this movie's really intense. I find Alien in some ways more terrifying and more difficult to deal with.

57:37Bill Simmons:I think the scene at the breakfast table when it comes out. Yeah. I think that's scarier than I think in this movie. But this movie is very scary.

57:48Sean Fennessey:Yeah, it's an interesting question. I mean, it's not really trying to be scary except for a couple of key moments. There's the moment, the dream when the chestburster hits her at the beginning of the film.

57:58Bill Simmons:That's our first rewatchable scene.

58:01Sean Fennessey:And then there's the first moment when they appear, the xenomorphs. But I guess when they're crawling through the ceiling a little bit. But generally speaking, it is really more of a war movie.

58:11Bill Simmons:The scariest moment is when the little girl's in the water. Yes, that is the number one.

58:15Sean Fennessey:monster comes up on it. Classic Gold School. Yes, that's a horror movie.

58:18Bill Simmons:Most rewatchable scenes quickly. Ripley's nightmare. Yet again, proving that cats are evil. See how the cat acted in that? Cats. Cats. Cats suck. I feel like cats. I do. Next one, we meet the crew. We get some Vasquez push-ups. Pull-ups. Pull-ups, I mean. Meet the Marines. Incredible scene. Did anyone ever mistake you for a man? She flips it on the guy. We get the knife trick with Bishop. and then Ripley finds out Bishop was an android not happy. We also got the apone giving the like wake up speech. We were just like, all right, sweethearts, what are you waiting for? Breakfast in bed? Got a glorious day in the core.

58:58Bill Simmons:That was like a mildly racist 80s trope of the black like troop leader crossed with the black police sergeant that would just get mad at whoever our hero was. Yeah. But remember Bernie Hamilton was in like five police movies? He's like, Phenomenon, Phenomenon, get in here! You think this is Inspector Todd in space? Yeah, yeah, basically.

59:17Sean Fennessey:Memorably parodied in Last Action Hero, right? He's got, Jack Slater's got one of those guys.

59:22Bill Simmons:Ripley just did not like that Bishop was an android. Not a fan. No. Unhappy. The next one, Crew finds the facehuggers and realizes the little girl's on board. Pretty good scene. You have one before that? I mean, I have a bunch. I was trying to narrow down to eight or nine.

59:41Sean Fennessey:of like you could go through each scene and be like, here's why this one's rewatchable.

59:45Bill Simmons:Next one I have is we've got a live one when they find the woman in the cocoon. Kill me. Alien comes out of her stomach. There's about a 25-minute stretch here. Yeah. I don't even know what to do with this part of the scenes. Ripley's making the deja vu face as she's watching from the monitor. It's the ambush. I would also say that this ambush scene... Something's moving, but it ain't us! I'm trying to remember what... Because I didn't know this at the time, but now when I was watching it, I was like, is this the first found footage horror movie since Cannibal Holocaust and really the second ever?

1:00:20Oh, interesting.

1:00:21Sean Fennessey:It's a great call. Seeing it from that perspective. You're right. They're watching it all through. You only get like, there's a couple of cutaways, but you mostly get it through their cameras. They're all around us, man!

1:00:31Bill Simmons:Coming out of the walls, man! Gorman, I wrote down, he melts down like De 'Aaron Fox in the finals.

1:00:37Sean Fennessey:Wow.

1:00:38Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:00:38Sean Fennessey:Yeah.

1:00:38Bill Simmons:Just repeatedly driving Carl Anthony Towns.

1:00:41Sean Fennessey:Thank you for your service, De 'Aaron.

1:00:44Bill Simmons:And then Ripley takes control of the Tesla SUV. First Tesla SUV.

1:00:49Sean Fennessey:It does look like a Cybertruck.

1:00:51Bill Simmons:And then Boggs dies. Boggs does die. Among others. Sprayed with acid.

1:00:58Sean Fennessey:Worsbowski, Frost, they all go down.

1:01:00Bill Simmons:That whole scene is... This is when the movie's like... Bishop volunteers to go back to the... the transmitter this is just uh paxton's just cooking maybe you're a bar maybe you aren't up

1:01:17Sean Fennessey:on current events but we just got our asses kicked pal you can just count me out

1:01:22Bill Simmons:and he goes yeah man bishop should go good idea yeah great idea bishop should go uh he's so fucking funny in this movie the uh oh here come the alien scene when they have that little meter thing. What's that thing called? The trackers. 25, 24, 23. That's inside the room. Yeah. And they look over the ceiling.

1:01:45Sean Fennessey:This movie has great, simple tech. Yeah. Like the century scene, which I'm sure is coming up where you can see how many bullets are left where it's just like our dumb brains are just like, we'll go into zero. It's not good. The century scene's only in director's cut or is that in the theater? I think so, yeah. And I watched the director's cut for this. Yeah. Which I think is the way to see the movie now. Interesting. It's two hours and 36 minutes. Hmm. but I think it is so much better. It's really interesting. I completely disagree, but that's fascinating. I'm a traditionalist. I like the original movie.

1:02:17Sean Fennessey:I think there's so many things in it that we can talk about things I like in it.

1:02:22Bill Simmons:We did a director cut to this. I should have been like, ah, man, we should have done five more Rich Paul minutes. I'm going to go back and re-edit them. It's not too late. Ripley realized the aliens are above him in that part where 15 meters, 12 meters, 10 meters. There's just no better gimmick than that. You read it wrong. Burt just goes full asshole. We're like, oh my god, this guy. I love when the bad guy, who is now revealed as the bad guy, does the thing like where he locks everybody else out. Yes. But you know at some point it's going to backfire enough. Hudson has the best death scene ever.

1:02:58Bill Simmons:I mean, do you want to litigate this now? He's finally a hero. He's finally brave, right? It's like the entire movie. He's been the scaredy cat and he's been the one that's just like, this is fucking bullshit I want out of here. And then when he finally gets confronted by these things, he's like, let's fucking go. Burke dies, and then Gorman blows up himself in Vasquez. And this all happens in six minutes. That's also a great death scene.

1:03:20Sean Fennessey:I mean, the Vasquez and Gorman together, wouldn't she say you always were an asshole? Yeah.

1:03:24Bill Simmons:Or Gorman, yeah. This has to be, at least for me, most rewatchable scene. The trackers in the ducts is the best to me. The cut when... Craig, were you holding on for dear life during this part? Yeah, I watched this last night at 1 a.m. on my laptop.

1:03:37Sean Fennessey:She's having a real time. When Michael Biehn pops his head into the vents and looks very quickly, you see them coming out of the shadows. You see them coming. Especially for 1986.

1:03:48Bill Simmons:That's Gordo. So good. Yeah, seeing his eyes peek above. So good. With the sound. Quickie mentioned Newt dropping into the water. And you're like, just get back in the water. We're going to come get you. And you're just like, oh, man.

1:04:01Sean Fennessey:That was what I had written down for Gordo

1:04:02Bill Simmons:was the creature rising from the water. Great scene. this is 1986

1:04:07Sean Fennessey:like the fucking creature work in this movie is insane it's so far beyond anything that was happening in movies at this time

1:04:12Bill Simmons:Ripley goes back to save Newt and she realizes she's in alien egg Erewhon basically alien egg Erewhon oh my god the Hayley Beaver produce egg zone yeah these seem fresh she goes for Rambo Bishop shows up just in time punch him Bishop and then the whole ending with Bishop getting disemboweled. Yeah. Have some thoughts on that. It's like a lobster claw. Get away from her, you bitch. The holding on while you might get sucked to outer space. A classic. The airlock. Always, always where Total Recall had the same thing. A lot of movies have done this gimmick. I feel like every time you're getting sucked out, I don't think you're just like, oh, I'm going to hold out of the ladder.

1:05:00Bill Simmons:Like, it's got to be.

1:05:01Sean Fennessey:And since 2001, there's a version of it in Project Hail Mary. Yeah, it's good.

1:05:05Bill Simmons:Gravity has it. And then Bishop saves the day with one of the great ideas in the history of any of these movies. The disemboweled guy. Grabbing the arm. Android, I should say. What do you got for most rewatchable CR? The tracker scene. All the red light. They're coming through. I would see that or the ambush, but I think it's the tracker scene. John?

1:05:25Sean Fennessey:To me, it's the ambush, the penetrating the alien hive, and the genuine fear on the faces of these guys. and women who are presented as the meanest motherfuckers in the galaxy. Especially after they're told they can't use their guns. Yes.

1:05:39Bill Simmons:It's a very Vietnam-esque, Vietnam movie-esque scene.

1:05:43Sean Fennessey:Yeah, it's more on unknown terrain. We don't understand the enemy or where we are.

1:05:48Bill Simmons:CR, what are your top five movie disembowelments? The Hitcher? This is a big year for embowelments. There's not one that jumps to mind, I'm sure. It's got to be this one, right? It's a great one. I mean, to me, he gets like twisted in half. It's not even...

1:06:06Sean Fennessey:My gondoli was actually the sound that Bishop makes when he's torn apart, which is like between a pop and a thwip. Like I've never really heard that sound in a movie before, but it's so burned into my mind. Also, the fact that like android anatomy is basically like a bunch of milk with squid. It's disgusting. It's like a bunch of chowder just comes out of the guy.

1:06:31Bill Simmons:It's so good. It's such a holy shit moment. Most 86 thing about this movie. I was going to say the Vietnam overtones for me. Mm-hmm. And then the fact that a female lead action character being a badass was considered to be this novel, amazing concept for a movie. Now it's like... I had Michael Biehn replacing James Raymar. That's a great one. In a major role in a movie. Because James Raymar had an incredible cocaine meltdown. Yeah. Was he arrested? He was arrested for drug possession, but they said it was for family reasons. 86 was really the peak for terrible cocaine stories. Good, bad, people surviving, people not surviving.

1:07:14Those are two guys, too, where you're just like, James Cameron handed it to you.

1:07:18Bill Simmons:Yeah, really tough. What do you have, Sean?

1:07:21Sean Fennessey:Burke's styling. The way that Burke dresses, which is like technically this is supposed to be, what is it, 2133 or something? It's years in the future, but it looks like he just walked off the set of Beverly Hills Cop with his weird blazer. Metroid? Did you play Metroid as a kid? I didn't. I loved Metroid. One of the very first NES games I ever got and one of the amazing reveals was that Samus, I think Samus, the lead character for Metroid who was like an astronaut who wore a helmet. If you won the game it was revealed or if you got to a certain level in the game that Samus was a woman and that that character in the video game was directly inspired by Ripley.

1:08:00Sean Fennessey:That's not something that you would have seen in a video game before that. That's cool. That the character could be a woman. And I think that game came out in 86 or 87. And Samus was a big Super Smash Brothers character and then you could change and play her as a woman or the person inside the suit. There you go.

1:08:14Bill Simmons:The gondali butter in my ass so it pops in my mouth the word. What do you have, Sierra? Soldiers getting ready. Oh. All the like outstanding shit. Like when they're all like locking and loading and getting ready to go in. It's just, it's never not cool. I have people waking up from pods in movies like this. Because I always think about what's realistic and what's not. I just have trouble waking up at a normal morning. But if you'd been sleeping for 57 years, I don't know. What's your morning breath like? Well, your eyesight might have gotten better in the intervening time. Yeah, true. Would my eyesight get better?

1:08:53Bill Simmons:There's a good version of this in Covenant, the wake-up scene. Everyone comes out. They always make them dress weird. in these things, but I always think that's like a good scene. I had this in Picky Knits, but I can't believe they don't let these guys shower after a 57-year nap or however long they've been asleep. She was asleep for 57 years. I was thinking about the Borat Saginaw rancid body odor award. You know, a couple of these people got a little gamey, I think. I think the breath would have been an issue. Yeah, the breath. Honestly, Ripley's apartment probably smells worse than anything we can possibly conceive of.

1:09:25it's an airtight one bedroom place in a space station with a cat and a chronics and a chain smoker yeah

1:09:34Bill Simmons:I didn't think yeah the chain smoker it's Grey Gardens in there it's out of control truly never see her actually puff from the cigarette she holds it like she's just always holding it though I wasn't impressed

1:09:43Sean Fennessey:noticed an absence of cigarette related categories not like our guy behind Sean look at our guy behind Sean

1:09:49Bill Simmons:Sonny that's how you do it Todd Parker Award for best character as a transfer of Vasquez comes right out of the pod just fucking doing pull-ups talking shit. It's like, who's this?

1:10:02Sean Fennessey:Love it.

1:10:03Bill Simmons:Alright, what stage is the best?

1:10:07What do you got? I talked about this before, but just the rollercoaster structure and the idea that you don't see a xenomorph for a full hour. You get the hint of it when they show her nightmare. You see it in the medical cage or in the medical test tube. But the first action, it takes an hour to get to that. You would never get away with that now.

1:10:32Sean Fennessey:It's a good point. You'd probably what you'd have now is you'd have a five minute segment from the middle of the movie that is pushed into the front.

1:10:39Bill Simmons:Any streamer, we're flashing forward to when they're descending on the aliens and then we go backwards 48 hours. Or to your point about the director's cut, they would have had the colonists discovering the hive first. you know what I mean and getting attacked or something

1:10:53Sean Fennessey:which I think is such an interesting and useful scene in the movie but anyway I have a bunch of these I mean one timeless war film like hostile armed forces entering unnavigable terrain against an enemy they don't understand that's every foreign conflict the US has been in for like the last 100 years the physical production of the movie which we talked about you know the miniatures and the sets the tagline of this movie is incredible it was just this time it's war which like Like put that on a poster. That's fucking awesome. Yeah. Pretty great. The other one is casting a comedian as the villain.

1:11:27Sean Fennessey:Which I couldn't think of an example of this before this. But then, you know, you've got Robin Williams in Insomnia in One Hour Photo. You've got Jim Carrey in The Cable Guy. Dennis Leary in Judgment Night. Dan Aykroyd in Gross Point Blank. Monique in Precious. You've got Steve Carell in Foxcatcher.

1:11:40Bill Simmons:Did you say Jim Carrey in Batman?

1:11:42Sean Fennessey:Jim Carrey as a Riddler. Like this is something that happens all the time. Dave DeVito in Batman Returns.

1:11:46Bill Simmons:That's a good one. Yeah, I can't think of another one. It's such an inspired idea. Yeah, like Richard Pryor never played a villain.

1:11:53Sean Fennessey:He did. He did. Well, not... And Harlem Nights a little bit. A little bit. That's the end of his career.

1:11:59Bill Simmons:Yeah, like Don Rickles really missed it. He could have been Burke in a different thing. Those are good ones. I had a couple. I thought, you know, we have when we do these sequels, when we move into the second movie, how they tie the first movie in. Like Rocky II, they're just basically like, We're just going to play the end of Rocky 1 again. Karate Kid 2 did that. Most sequels either do that or they try to do something. This one is so organic. They find her skipping out across the galaxy. It really makes, it feels like a continuation of the first movie, which I think is like the single hardest thing to do.

1:12:36Bill Simmons:Godfather 2 actually is good with this too, where we just started the big wedding like we did with the first one, but everybody's older. And Connie's dating some schmuck. And Fredo's wife is being a dick. and you can see Michael's got, but it feels like a continuation. I think that's so hard.

1:12:52Sean Fennessey:This has always been one of my biggest frustrations about Alien 3 is that, you know, Alien 3 opens with basically the information that Newt and Hicks are dead. Yeah. And that Bishop isn't there. And that was what I wanted it to be. Like when, I don't, I didn't want them to be dead. Like Alien 3 is an interesting movie and a very flawed movie. We can do this now. I mean, the vision for Alien 3 was to be part of Alien 3 and 4 at one point, where Hicks was going to be the star of 3, working with space communists to fend off an alien invasion. And then Ripley was going to come back big time in 4. Michael Biehn, but more so James Cameron, were fucking livid when I watched Biehn's podcast that Cameron went on about 3.

1:13:40They were just like, you motherfuckers. Like we did two and a half hours of like showing why these three people mattered, showing why what they do for each other gets them to the end of the rainbow. And you fucking wipe out all of that equity we built up with like a title card in the next movie. It's just such a mistake. And it sets the tone for just how like for as much as like there's tons to admire in Alien 3. It is such a toxic, like angry movie. I only saw it once. I don't remember what happens. It's a fascinating development story just because so many different people took a shot at writing the script.

1:14:17So William Gibson wrote, the guy who wrote Neuromancer, wrote a whole screenplay you can read online about Hicks for Alien 3.

1:14:27Sean Fennessey:They had something special with those three people. I concur with Michael Biehn.

1:14:33Bill Simmons:Ripley FaceTimes Burke in the beginning. I think that invented FaceTime.

1:14:36Sean Fennessey:I was wondering about that too. I thought it was Total Recall, but I forgot it was Aliens. 2001 has a version of that. The video call. True. Remember when he calls his daughter on her birthday? They got holograms and Star Wars. I mean, people were... This feels like a straight FaceTime.

1:14:52Bill Simmons:Do they have this in Blade Runner too? Isn't there video phones? Yes. Like phone booths? I think so. Every time I see Michael Biehn in any movie, I want him to go, I came across time for you, Sarah. It's great to see him. I think I'm having him

1:15:08Sean Fennessey:on the pod on Friday because he's in this new movie that Chris and I saw called Onslaught which is very connected to these James Cameron 80s movies and his career is so

1:15:19Bill Simmons:freaking fascinating to me. He just never got over like that Hanks Costner hump.

1:15:25Sean Fennessey:Yeah.

1:15:25Bill Simmons:He's like right underneath.

1:15:27Sean Fennessey:He's in I mean he goes up to Tombstone basically. Three of the most iconic movies ever. Yeah.

1:15:31Bill Simmons:And then Tombstone and he plays an amazing villain. You wouldn't call him Bean. You wouldn't call him Michael. He's Michael Bean. You're going to say his whole name. That's right.

1:15:36Sean Fennessey:That's right. But like Lords of Discipline, Terminator, Aliens, Rampage, Seventh Sign, Abyss, Navy Seals, K2, Deadfall, Tombstone. Ten years. All big Hollywood movies. Some good, some not so good. But some all-timers. And then like nothing.

1:15:52Bill Simmons:Yeah. Let's take a break. We'll do more. What's age the best? This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Imagine you're running a professional sports team. Nice. Imagine the player contract report is due today. Not so nice. You've got performance notes from the coaching staff. You got a salary spreadsheet from your analyst, three rounds of back and forth emails with the agent, and all of it is scattered absolutely everywhere. Well, that's where chat GBT work comes in. It's a new way to use chat GBT for bigger multi-step projects. Give chat GBT work access to your apps and files and can create real work documents.

1:16:29Bill Simmons:For instance, spreadsheets, slides, structured reports. You can bring all those to your next meeting. And when you don't need answers, you need help just getting the work across the finish line. Chat GPT work can move your projects forward while you stay in control. Put chat GPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. Get started. Just go to chat GPT.com by selecting work mode available on plus and pro plans. One more, what's the best for me. This could be another Hudson award, the Hudson from aliens. are you a good guy or a bad guy? Because I'm still not sure. Award. He's right dead center in the middle and he's neither.

1:17:10Bill Simmons:And I don't know how I pulled it off. I was trying to think of other characters who did that. I was, I mean, just this last time I was thinking about whether or not this is the most like electrifying pairing of guys, the Hudson and Hicks pairing of like pure courage under fire and sensitivity and leadership with like chaotic fear and energy and comedy. And it's like a really like electrifying, like combination of a guy of guys.

1:17:38Sean Fennessey:It's funny that it's in the same year as the phone, Berringer and platoon where like, obviously neither of those guys are very funny, but they are like alpha and omega. Yeah.

1:17:45Bill Simmons:You're going to do some quotes later, right? Yes. Okay. Movie wasn't shot in sequence, which I was like for what stage the best. And they saved that first scene when they're all hanging out for the last scene in the film. Cause they all knew each other. Yeah. I was like, yeah, I like when they do that. this is just from IMDb Trivia Jet Goldstein a little more buxom than the character had to strap her assets down and to have that not overpower her scenes and eventually went on to fund a clothing company that made giant bras for particularly buxom people

1:18:30Sean Fennessey:it's ironic because one of my big takeaways when I saw this movie as a teenager was she's got a great rack I mean you know

1:18:37Bill Simmons:it's not surprising her guns were even more loaded there was more ammo in the closet how do you think that conversation do you think Gail Ann Hurd took that conversation on or do you think Cameron went direct to the source probably not a Cameron probably that was a Gail Ann Hurd like hey yeah anyway here's some electrical tape we'd like you to look into and the 15 minute countdown at the end is exactly 15 minutes. I always enjoy when they do that too. Great chat Gordo. What do you have, Sean?

1:19:05Sean Fennessey:Either the alien emerging behind Newt in the water or I do think when Ripley emerges in the power loader at the end, there's a thrilling movie moment. I love being obviously going through the ceiling panel and the aliens coming at him. There is a shot in a really random scene in this movie where they've got Burke dead to rights. They've got Burke sitting and all the Marines and Ripley are like basically circled around him standing. And there is one shot where it's like you see three of the Marines and Ripley's like telling them what Burke did to them and how he was going to try and get embryos into them.

1:19:41And then Paxton just leans into the frame and he goes, fuck, he's dog meat. You're dead. But it is like so much better than it needs to be where it's like this master shot of all the living characters. And then he's just like, he's dog meat

1:20:00Bill Simmons:this is his best performance right because it's a pretty loaded list

1:20:04Sean Fennessey:he's so funny in True Lies I really like him in one false move as like a different kind of performance but yeah this is fucking awesome

1:20:11Bill Simmons:because we did True Lies were you on that one?

1:20:13Sean Fennessey:I wasn't sorry it's okay he's so funny in that movie the scene when he pisses himself is unbelievable

1:20:24Bill Simmons:great shot Gordo award we did that we did not do the Sean Fentasy word for stealth homage that gives every movie nerd a criteria orgasm.

1:20:31Sean Fennessey:I have like at least five. Should we get to bring Spielberg in? I'll try to keep it super tight. One, the knife game that Bishop plays is also played in Dark Star, which is John Carpenter's first movie. Oh, yeah. And that movie was written by Dan O 'Bannon, who also wrote Alien. Was that a conscious homage? I think so. I think so. The second thing is, in the extended edition, when we are learning about the colonists, there is a little kid riding a big wheel that is a very conscious homage to The Shining, where the kid rides on the big wheel right past the Weyland-Yutani sign. Very much so. Which, funnily enough, because Kubrick's shooting Full Metal Jacket in England at the same time.

1:21:21Bill Simmons:That was minus 180 on Fandul for what you were going to pick. Okay. But keep going. You have three more.

1:21:25Sean Fennessey:There's a probe at the very beginning of the film when they enter Ripley's little escape pod that is a very conscious mimic of the probe that we see at the top of the alien spaceship in 1953's War of the Worlds. The one that has a kind of almost like liquid gas going across them. There is a very overt structural Sands of Iwo Jima nod where you've got the tough sergeant, the leather neck persona, the mission structure. All of those specific beats are pulled directly from that movie. I already did my Adrian Biddle bit. And then just the first blood part two and this movie being written simultaneously together are the perfect match of Vietnam War storytelling.

1:22:08Got one more. Murdoch. One more. Phenasy Criteriorgasm is the dissolve from Ripley in her sleeping pod to the planet doing 2001 Baby in Space. Fantastic. Wow.

1:22:22Bill Simmons:It's multi-orgasmic film for you. Many orgasms. It's more like the Sean Phenasy jizz room in the Criterion Classic. Can't bring in Kayla Wilson. Chess Rockwell Brocklanders were a best character name. I have Apone. One of my unanswerable questions is it

1:22:40Sean Fennessey:is it Apone or Apone? Apone. But when Hicks is like, when he's down, Hicks is like, Apone, Apone. And I guess Gorman, is he Canadian? Is he a Canadian actor or an English actor?

1:22:52Bill Simmons:I don't know. Okay. Well, I like Apone. I like Bishop. I thought Bishop was good. Bishop's a good name for... Bishop, good android name. What about Spunkmeyer? Good dog name. Spunkmeyer? Spunkmeyer's incredible. Vasquez is good too, except for the completely politically incorrect part that we'll get into in a second. Was there a better title for this movie? obviously no way Cameron really pushed for it

1:23:12Sean Fennessey:can I pitch you a couple of ideas yeah motherfucker asterisk or alien colon motherfucker yeah or aliens with the money sign like Cameron Drew on the whiteboard yeah

1:23:25Bill Simmons:yeah he would do the dollar signs on the S to make it clear that had to be a thing what do you got for Flex CR I have the Jesse Eisenberg that's good you should be proud of that right there don't worry if you don't make it any further award for the best line reading, which goes multiple times to Bill Paxton as Private Hudson. Yeah, right, man. Bishop should go. Fuck. He's dead. Your dog meat, pal. What do you mean they cut the power? How could they cut the power, man? 17 days? Hey, man, I don't want to rain on your parade, but we're not going to last 17 hours. Hey, maybe you haven't been keeping up on current events, but we just got our asses kicked, pal.

1:24:13We're on an express elevator to hell going down.

1:24:18Bill Simmons:That's my favorite. And then in the director's commentary, when they use the sentry guns, he's like, maybe we got him demoralized. But obviously the greatest one is all the game over, man. Dropship crashes and all the... How has Hudson not been in the director's commentary category? I know. this whole time. What were we doing? He,

1:24:39Sean Fennessey:do you think that all the mans and pals that he puts at the end of every line were in the script or is he adding that? I think he,

1:24:45Bill Simmons:I think he was cooking. Pure Paxton. Cooking. Butch's girlfriend award weak link in the film. Let's talk about this. So mine is, uh, Burke's plan to smuggle a xenomorph back to... Oh, you think that's a bad, that's the weak link? I just think it's one of the worst plans in the history of movies. I had that in picking it. What could go wrong? Let's, let's bring... Let's bring this alien back who has been proven to inhabit other people and destroy colonies. We'll bring them back our way.

1:25:13Sean Fennessey:You could argue that's like the criticism of the brain-dead corporate state is that they would think that their emissary would think this is a good idea. Big thing for this is at what point did he come up with this plan? Was this always the plan? Because he knows, we know from that scene and also from the director's cut that they know that this is happening up there. so was he like sent up there on purpose to put embryos in whatever he could get into and then bring it all back or was that all of it's insane was that an audible he called at the line when things started going wrong what are they going to study the thing's just going to turn into an alien and fuck everybody up well they're going to they want bioweapons they want to train it to make it a weapon but they can't control it

1:25:56Bill Simmons:terrible plan what was yours

1:25:59Sean Fennessey:this is in the director's cut but Newt's parents like going to examine in the crashed spaceship site, but they bring their kids with them? Yeah. What the fuck is that? If there's like a loud noise at my house, I'm not like, Alice, wake up. We got to go explore this. Right. What the fuck are they doing? Heard something outside. This will be a character building experience. Maybe they didn't have childcare that night. Clearly they didn't, but one of them should stay home. I think the idea is that if they find it, they get like a piece of the discovery. Why do their kids have to be there? Look, I would say, how do you guys feel about new?

1:26:36Oh, shit. We're doing this now?

1:26:38Bill Simmons:What is this? What's, where would it go otherwise? First of all, what little kid gives themselves a nickname? Oh, yeah, you're not supposed to do that.

1:26:47Sean Fennessey:I've seen it happen. I've seen it. Not in my family, but I've seen it happen.

1:26:52Bill Simmons:I'm just calling my real name if you find me in an alien colony hiding from the aliens. I'm Bill Simmons. Call me BS, though. My name's Sports Guy. I don't know. Yeah. This movie is a little new heavy. Call me the Isle of Dr. Simbo. Right.

1:27:09Sean Fennessey:What birdmester is this on LV247?

1:27:15Bill Simmons:There's a scene missing. Well, it might be in the director's cut. Which scene do you think is missing? Ripley goes from zero to a hundred with, I am now the mom for nude. Yeah, but in the director's cut, you find out she had a daughter who died. Right, yes. Which I think is so important to the fucking movie. I don't know why they cut that out. So maybe that is, maybe that is what the director cuts for. It's the primary theme of the movie. Does that change the movie for you? I still bought her motherly instincts with the daughter, with Newt, but that would certainly help. Yeah, of course. I think when Newt gets taken down by the owner, I'm like, Bishop, we're getting out of here.

1:27:48Bill Simmons:It was good to know Newt, but I'm out. She's known Newt for like two days.

1:27:53Sean Fennessey:If you don't know that she's lost a daughter and that she's driven by that loss and that bonding with this little kid is replacing something that is, essential to her being, then the movie doesn't... That's why I think the director's cut is the only way to go. But much like the colonists who bring Newt along, was Ripley going on an off-world mining trip really the best use of her parenting time at that moment in Alien 1? No, of course not. But she had to to make money. That's the thing. She had to... That character, that informs that whole idea of the movie, which is like, these are these grunts, these workers who have to earn.

1:28:26Bill Simmons:Yeah. So you're saying Ripley's backstory, it's like, if you don't know that CR lost Ben Simmons. That's right. Leading to how happy he was for Jalen Brown and LeBron James. Without that backstory, he just seems like a happy basketball player. Exactly right. He doesn't, you don't get the backstory of Ben Simmons melting down in 21. Isn't it cool when LeBron comes to your team?

1:28:45Sean Fennessey:Setting aside AI taking the Sixers to the finals, is your favorite Sixers team of the century the Iguodala team that went to like the second round of the playoffs? No, it's the first iteration of young Sixers young process Sixers that was like late 2010s. Michael Carter Williams? No, Simmons, Embiid, Covington Losing to the Celtics in seven or six.

1:29:08Bill Simmons:What's age the worst? Vasquez, which was Jeanette Goldstein's first feature film role. She gained 10 pounds of muscle. She also wore dark contact lenses. She also underwent an hour of makeup every day to darken her white skin to portray a chicano character she also studied mexican-american gang interviews to develop her demeanor and accent and cameron has recently acknowledged the controversy and said we would get crucified if we did this today yeah a long and storied history of this happening throughout hollywood history um all of the 80s is like italian guys playing cubans you know what i mean like it's it's pretty frequent yeah i'm not getting holier than thou about it it's just a funny outcome that Jeanette Goldstein played Vasquez.

1:30:00Bill Simmons:I was trying to think what would have been the worst movie for this to happen and it's clearly the first Fast and Furious. Where they would have had to make Tang with Michelle Rodriguez but it was Jeanette Goldstein. And by the 6-1 people are like, what the fuck? How do you not have...

1:30:17Sean Fennessey:The other thing is it's so evident in Terminator 2 when she comes back as the foster mom and it's like, oh, well that's Jeanette Goldstein. that's what Jeanette Goldstein looks like where she takes a liquid sword to the head

1:30:30Bill Simmons:yeah what's your other some of your other favorite Jeanette Goldstein performances I only know of two no she's in

1:30:36Sean Fennessey:she's in a lot of stuff no she's she's in the Presidio

1:30:39Bill Simmons:no the Bigelow

1:30:40Sean Fennessey:vampire movie Near Dark Near Dark yeah

1:30:42Bill Simmons:her IMDb is extensive

1:30:47Bill Simmons:for a What's Age of Worse you mentioned the backstory with Ripley I think that is a What's Age of Worse that that seems pretty critical that that's never mentioned and that's why she likes Newt and then James Horner not having to write the score. This is a good one. In the shooting script, there's a co-ed shower scene with the troops getting ready to kind of show that they're all equals. And a couple of the actresses were like, hey, can we cut this? But then they use it for RoboCop.

1:31:17Sean Fennessey:It's also, I think it's taken from Robert Heinlein and they do it in Starship Troopers as well. Yeah.

1:31:22Bill Simmons:I think a co-ed shower scene when I was on a date in 1986. I don't know how that would have played. Well, I mean, your date would have gotten a look at Michael Biehn. She would have seen all of A. Pohn. I think I would have killed over.

1:31:37Sean Fennessey:Any other one that's the worst? I mean, killing Hicks and Newt for Alien 3. I just wrote all action movies since. Right? I mean, so few movies can hold a candle to this movie.

1:31:53Bill Simmons:Ruffalo, Hannah, Ribnick, Partridge overacting word. Do we just put Vasquez in here now?

1:31:59Sean Fennessey:I wrote Paxton makes overacting an art form. Yes. Because he's the only one who's really doing it. How about Vasquez with the gun? Yeah, it's gestural. You say that now. What is she doing? When we were watching it then, I was like, this is incredible.

1:32:14Bill Simmons:I will say this. She's really going for it in every minute she's in this movie.

1:32:18Sean Fennessey:The shot early on when she and Boggs are getting ready and she turns the gun up and the camera is like lovingly photographing her guns, all of her guns, is, I think it's worth it. Cameron was really into her, obviously. What do you have for a flex? Well, I had a couple. I had the Sasha Jenkins Award for Actor, who you can't believe didn't become a bigger star for Michael Biehn. But also, the David Crusoe Award that we talked about, Stuff of Legends, for a character who definitely should have been spun off into their own sequel, also would watch a Vasquez immediate prequel. Like, what was Vasquez doing?

1:32:52Sean Fennessey:Vasquez and Boggs? Yeah.

1:32:54Bill Simmons:Yes. Bogs and Vascets. That just sounds like an ABC show for me. Bogs and Vascets.

1:33:00Sean Fennessey:Just bouncing from planet to planet, you know, terminating bugs. Isn't that what the video game is, basically? The Colonial Marines video game? Do you ever play that? Never mind.

1:33:12Bill Simmons:Sierra thinks Luke Wilson could have been in Harris' support. How does take a word? I'll go last because my take's an inferno. Aliens might be the best Alien movie, but it was bad for the Alien franchise. I like that the first film was a horror movie it's like a slasher action film but the aliens were of inexplicable origin and there was all this ambiguity and mystery around them and it's like yes you basically leave that movie and you're like that was a great horror experience but you were also like what the fuck was that and why did it have a spaceship and what was it doing in that chair and all the stuff about it And Cameron just basically makes it a Ripley franchise for what winds up being three films, you know, going forward, which is totally cool.

1:34:02But I think what should have happened is Ridley should have made his movies. And then there should have been like Ripley movies. But there should have been like Ridley Scott's 1986 Alien 2 would have been incredible, I think.

1:34:15Sean Fennessey:It's interesting because it's sort of similar to Star Wars where they can't get away from the Skywalker saga, even though there's this huge world that they're creating and they're presenting but people get so attached to those characters that everything kind of feels stuck. Like even Alien Romulus which was a pretty cool kind of reboot I think takes place between Alien and Aliens. Like they can't get too far away from that period of time. My hottest take and I'm not sure if I believe this but I'll share it here that this is a better Vietnam movie than Full Metal Jacket. Whoa. Now it may not be a better movie than Full Metal Jacket.

1:34:48You got the...

1:34:49Sean Fennessey:it's a good hottest take Phil just did the Alonzo warning gift because Full Metal Jacket is one of the great training to be in the military movies and then the second half of the film which is excellent but is not as good of a Vietnam movie experience and is obviously shot in England yes similarly to this movie yeah it's a pretty good one

1:35:09Bill Simmons:um get away from her you bitch terrible line delivery one of the worst parts of the movie wow and it became super famous because that's why you're you. That's why he's him. I think they need another take. And there's reasons they didn't have another take because of how they're filming it. Yeah. I think it cost her the Oscar. Get away from her, you bitch! It's just bad. But it's become an iconic line. Sure. But I think she needed a second take. I think there's a reason Kubrick, Fincher, some of these guys, like, let's run that back. Sigourney, one more time. You didn't quite get it. I think it should have been way more down, more like, get away from her, you bitch.

1:35:51Bill Simmons:Like, lower.

1:35:52Sean Fennessey:She's just, it's bad. I think Sigourney said that Cameron wanted bitch to be low-key, not to be up. Because the delivery is get away from her, you bitch. And he wanted it to be down. It's just bad. It's hacky. I like it. Thumbs down. Do you like the whole fight with her in the loader?

1:36:10Bill Simmons:Yeah. Yeah. Craig, I think from going forward, you have to be on hottest takes since you're the king of the hottest take. I think you just have to be ready for this category from now on. Okay, good to know. Do you have any hot takes? No, I don't think so for this one. Craig's like Chang. He needs to cook. He's there all day. He needs a sous chef. Yeah, he's got a marinade. He needs a sous chef. Hans Gruber scale villain ranking. Reiser, like a six and a half. I think he's pretty high. I think he's eight and a half. Where do you put the mother alien, though? Well, she's just doing what biology wanted her to do.

1:36:44Not a villain? Just laying eggs and protecting the hive.

1:36:46Bill Simmons:Yeah, I'm sympathetic to the mother alien. Casting what ifs. You mentioned Weaver wanting a million bucks, which was a lot of money back then, gets it. Bill Paxton lined up to be in Police Academy 2, then got this movie. The role of Zed from Police Academy 2 goes to Bobcat Goldthwait. Yeah. What a fucking sliding door Zed is. Truly. James Remar, my guy. right there Gans in 48 Hours Ajax in the Warriors I love James Rebar lives in my neighborhood I've seen him in Larchmont I don't know 20 times do you think you would ever go up to him and be like

1:37:31Sean Fennessey:what's the alien story

1:37:32Bill Simmons:I think this is going to happen I think now that I know this alien thing this will prompt me to be

1:37:36Sean Fennessey:you've never approached him before no

1:37:39Bill Simmons:I don't like bothering celebrities

1:37:41Sean Fennessey:same he's having a moment Oppenheimer and the Odyssey. He's Tiresias. I'm aware. He's back. Remar's back.

1:37:52Bill Simmons:Remar has never left. There are shots in the movie that you apparently can see his back. Apparently he had a severe cocaine problem. Was arrested for drug possession during the filming.

1:38:04Sean Fennessey:Is there any other kind?

1:38:06Bill Simmons:I have a recreational... They're filming this in London on some weird set, right? How do you get arrested? Like what kind of cocaine level was he at? It's probably like partying in the streets. Buying cocaine from somebody he shouldn't have. Yeah, out in the open. An undercover Bobby. Bean available showed up within a few days. And then it was like Friday and he was like on the set on Monday.

1:38:30Sean Fennessey:And it's so clear. Bean is perfect for this part. And I don't think Remar would have made as much sense. Remar is, there's something kind of hard and tough and like not vulnerable about James Remar. And Bean has got, he's courageous, but he's not the leader. Like, Ripley is ultimately the leader in the movie. So I think it worked out for the best.

1:38:49Bill Simmons:This is a borderline cast to win if, but Al Pacino is filming Revolution in the studio next door and came and visited the set. I had coffee with Macaulay half an hour ago. Only he would say Ripley. Can you do Pacino as Hudson? Could they have fit Al Pacino in this movie?

1:39:08you dog me pal

1:39:12Bill Simmons:you're dead you dog me pal Ripley you know what you signed up for baby yeah Al Pacino is Burke this species has a lot of financial value to the company

1:39:28Sean Fennessey:I think they could have made it work yeah that would have been great Revolution that's a film Al needed to sell out more like in movies like this like I wish we had gotten Al as like the bad guy in Con Air you know yeah

1:39:43Bill Simmons:that's why I love Devil's Advocate yeah that's where he's really going for it you know why you care about Ripley because she's got a great ass and you got your head all the way up it Vasquez that should have been the special edition what are you doing with that tape

1:40:02Bill Simmons:now we're just yelling

1:40:04Sean Fennessey:What if he was Apone? Oh, yeah. That would be good.

1:40:07Bill Simmons:You know? Listen, he could have been in every part. Joey Pants Award. Best that guy. Mark Ralston. We're done. Boggs. Yes.

1:40:15Sean Fennessey:I do like Paul Maxwell as Van Leeuwen. The guy from the company. We didn't really talk about Weyland-Yutani in there.

1:40:21Bill Simmons:I guess they can come up in questions and nits. Mark Ralston. Hall of Fame. That guy. You see him. You're like, that's Boggs. Dion Waiter's Award. I think. I don't know what to do with this. I have Al Matthews as Apone. Okay. I do too. Also because we went to an aliens screening at the Hollywood Forever Cemetery like before COVID like 2018, 19, something like that.

1:40:41Sean Fennessey:It was Grantland era. Okay. Early days. And like all the Marines showed up to like hang out at like to introduce the movie. And it was so awesome. Hysterical screening. Chris and I went with Eileen and Phoebe. And I'm almost Chris and I were like sat up like stock still like perfect posture watching the movie on the ground at Hollywood Forever. and I'm pretty sure both Eileen and Phoebe fell asleep within 15 minutes. Eileen fell asleep within the opening credits. Because we had been waiting for like four hours. It's a fun day. Yeah. But also, I mean, you've been on it but also like at Hollywood Forever you just like drink wine while you're watching the movie so they were just getting hammered and we were like, Apone!

1:41:17We were like, Jeanette Goldstein's not Mexican.

1:41:23Bill Simmons:Recast the couch director of City. Boston.

1:41:30where would the queen be laying her eggs in boston

1:41:33Sean Fennessey:southie yeah not combat zone south they are over the hill in charlestown uh what if uh kubrick and cameron switch jobs oh sean well first of all they'd still be shooting aliens yeah they never finish but kubrick's aliens and cameron's full metal jacket is an interesting it's really good

1:41:57Bill Simmons:we all like Michael Bean. We're all fans. Can I offer you young Kevin Costner as Hicks?

1:42:04Sean Fennessey:Yeah, it's pretty good.

1:42:06Bill Simmons:Perfect time for him, right? It's a year before No Way Out. Yeah. Hasn't really broken through yet. Yeah. Doesn't have the Terminator baggage. Did he ever play a soldier? Like a proper soldier? You would have felt like he might take a... Yeah, I guess that was it. Would have felt like he might take a crack at Ripley at any point during the movie because he's Kevin Costner.

1:42:25Sean Fennessey:Uh-huh.

1:42:27Bill Simmons:Then they wouldn't have fucking killed him in Alien 3. And I think they keep him for Alien 3. If it's Kevin Costner.

1:42:32Sean Fennessey:I'll do you one better. Drew Barrymore is new.

1:42:36Bill Simmons:Oh, that's great. Firestarter era, Drew Barrymore? Similar age. Yeah. Good one. Craig, flex. I got a couple. With your own camera now. First flex with the new camera. I kind of wanted to invent a new one for Bishop, which is the William Dafoe, this creepy looking guy turned out to be nice. Really good. That's a really good one. Really good. I didn't trust him the whole time. Yeah, the second I saw him, I was like, no shot. And then at the end, I was like, wow, what a pleasant surprise. That's like the guy in Silence of the Lambs who's like the butterfly expert, you know, or whatever. Yeah, yeah.

1:43:08Yeah. That's a good one.

1:43:10Bill Simmons:Is that yours? Yeah. I thought you had two. Well, the other one, I wonder, this is, I get why they did it, but it's a mini Marion Cabretti pizza cutting award. Why did they stop this on set? So 57 years later, Ripley's still just wearing like wife beaters in little underwear. 57 years later she's the same look there's she's got personal style I get that they want maybe it swung back I get that they want her to look like that in the movie for like you know just cause one of my unanswerable questions is what's what's up with lung cancer in this future because they're all smoking yeah they're smoking indoors they're smoking on spaceships kind of what's happening now in 2026 cigarettes are back also the tech is like exactly the same but are we supposed to imagine that they've cured it and now everybody's back doing darts yeah they cured it AI AI figured it out figured out lung cancer I really hope that happens that'd be great half-fester in it research we've mentioned a bunch of this stuff if you and I are doing rewatchables in 2035 and AI's cured lung cancer and we're just smoking oh yeah it'll be like Frost Dixon there's just a fucking ashtray full ashtray right there leading over what is the smoke gonna look like with these 4k cameras oh god the tea situation the tea breaks the British film industry tradition I just can't get over this it's very good it was my favorite half-assed internet research in a while another good one was they made a cast dummy of Newt because Sigourney Weaver had some back issues and couldn't carry Newt because Newt was you know a 10 year old girl or however old she was at that point so they made a light dummy and you can actually see it I look for it the second time.

1:44:53Bill Simmons:There's some scenes where it's like she's, it's like Naked Gun. Remember at the end of Naked Gun when he's going down the stairs with Priscilla Presley and he's just swinging this mannequin? It's a little like that. I really liked the note about how Carrie Han, who played Newt, kept biffing takes on purpose when she's supposed to slide down the ducks. Right, because she loved going down the slide. And so finally Cameron's like, If you just please bathe yourselves, you can ride down all the rest of the day. There's, I mean, this could be 20 minutes and it's not going to be, but if you want to know about how they built the set, how they used the replica, the miniature stuff, it's a pretty good deep dive.

1:45:35Bill Simmons:I'm not going to do it here.

1:45:36Sean Fennessey:There's a four-hour documentary called, is it Aliens Expanded? Yeah. That you can watch with many, many interviews with many, many other people who worked on the movie, including Cameron, all the stars. It's really good.

1:45:45Bill Simmons:One of the things we talk about sometimes when we do these movies from the 80s and 90s is before CGI, which Cameron talks about. If I had CGI, I would have done this, this, and this, and this movie, but they just kind of had to figure out shit. Yeah. So they're doing the alien, and it's 14 puppeteers moving the alien pieces around, and now it would just be a button.

1:46:05Sean Fennessey:Yeah, they said it was the largest marionette ever created for a film production.

1:46:11Bill Simmons:The guns weighed 65 to 70 pounds, which you can really feel when they're trying to, And it's like, man, have any of these people held a gun? But it's because they were crazy heavy. And then, oh, Lance Henriksen caught food poisoning from the milk, yogurt, and cream thing he had to spew up. Because the set was hot. And the stuff, like the bacteria got in. And he got like super sick. And then the alien nest set kept intact, used in Batman. Yeah. It's the Axis Chemicals set. and then a lot of stuff about Cameron and HGA. And then there's a whole thing about, they had this whole reel, the movie's like three plus hours.

1:46:57Bill Simmons:There's a whole reel of a backstory with Newt and her colony and all that. And they couldn't figure out how to cut the movie down. And then Gail Ann Hurd's like, just cut that part. And he did the thing where he took it out and watched the movie. And it was like, oh, that makes so much more sense. So it's just gone. But it's worth noting that Sean's pointed out that the Ripley stuff in terms of her backstory with her daughter. There's a little bit more stuff with Burke in the beginning. All that stuff got cut out. Weaver was really pissed about that. She thought she did great work or that was really important for the character.

1:47:32And then Cameron was like, when I watched Alien 3, a lot of the stuff that she had been asking for is in Alien 3. So she obviously was able to be like, if you want me to come back, ironclad, I have to do X, Y, and Z in Alien 3. Including Di. Right.

1:47:48Bill Simmons:The film takes place in 2179. But then they've kind of retroactively changed that and made it 21, 22, 57 years before Aliens. So there's some, for the Aliens nerds, there's some timeline stuff that does not fit.

1:48:08Sean Fennessey:Well, related to that too, there's a video game that takes place between Alien and Aliens that stars Amanda Ripley, which is Helen Ripley's daughter. And they get word that there's information, like a log from her vessel. So she goes out looking for her mom. And that's the premise of the whole game. That to me is like, that also could have been a movie.

1:48:30Bill Simmons:For sure.

1:48:31Sean Fennessey:It still could be a movie.

1:48:32Bill Simmons:Apex Mountain, Sigourney. Two years after Ghostbusters. This, I'm going to say yes. Working Girls the next year.

1:48:41Sean Fennessey:She parlays it into Working Girl and Gorillas in the Mist in the same year and wins the Oscar for Gorillas in the Mist.

1:48:46Bill Simmons:I think this is a yes. Cameron, no.

1:48:49Sean Fennessey:No.

1:48:50Bill Simmons:Bean? Yeah. Bean, probably yes. I think so. Terminator than this. I think so. If you're doing like Big Picture exists 40 years ago and you're doing biggest male movie stars. We joke about the Luke Wilson thing. Like he did have Harrison Ford juice to him for a minute there. Yeah, I wonder what you got to ask him if you have another thing.

1:49:11Sean Fennessey:I am, yeah.

1:49:14Bill Simmons:Paxton, no. No. Twister? Is that what you would say? Yeah, he's in Twister, Titanic. Alien movies? Of the Alien franchise or all Alien films? Alien movies where we go outer space. No. E.T. is a bigger... E.T. is still the best. Alien franchise, yes. No. So hard. I think I'm back on Alien. I think I was like... Oh, wow. I think for the most of my life it was Aliens. Have you made me feel guilty that we hadn't done Aliens forever? Now you're back on Alien? the second best alien movie is still a lot better than about last night unbelievable no I'm just saying as you go over in the course of your life sometimes you're a godfather sometimes you're a godfather too we do hunt from Red October he's like I don't know I still like K-19 the Widowmaker a little more I would go alien as well Jeanette Goldstein asset strapping

1:50:13Sean Fennessey:um there's some other examples of this I'm trying to think some good ones I mean didn't Jon Hamm have to holster it in a couple things Hamming you think he taped it to the thigh there a nut sling I've heard some things he had a cock sling yeah wow well there's that Affleck's like tamed that thing up a little bit man

1:50:32Bill Simmons:gotta remember who the star of this movie is just one of the guys Joyce Heiser she does yeah she's gotta strap him down yeah

1:50:41Sean Fennessey:I mean We literally watch Brandon Tina do it in Boys Don't Cry. That's like a whole scene in that movie.

1:50:47Bill Simmons:Paul Reiser, no. It's coming, though.

1:50:50Sean Fennessey:Not Paul Reiser's Apex Mountain.

1:50:52Bill Simmons:It's mad about you? It's mad about you. That show was being watched by 25 million people a week. It was a massive, massive hit. But you don't like it? I never liked it. I always used to make fun of anyone I knew who liked it. Wow. I thought it was a lame show.

1:51:05Sean Fennessey:Out on Pencow.

1:51:06Bill Simmons:I was younger. I was, you know, it was, the zag was to not like that show. I always liked Helen Hunt, though, on that show.

1:51:13Sean Fennessey:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was like a bad Woody Allen movie stretched out to 900 episodes. But I kind of like bad Woody Allen movies. Do you know that they did a reunion series that was on Spectrum? Yeah. It was like direct TV. They got Pan Cal back. Yeah.

1:51:33Bill Simmons:Mad About You had one of the best crossfire annihilations ever. Really? George got whipped on Seinfeld by his girlfriend at the end and realized he made a mistake. Him and Jerry decided they were both going to get married, but then Jerry backed out. And then George stayed with his whatever. And he's just in some room bummed out. And she's like, George, mad about you starting. And he's just like, and then he kind of slumped over. This was Susan, right? Yes, Susan. But I always thought that was like unnecessary crossfire because that was an NBC show. That is tough. But that was the sentiment of Matt about you.

1:52:12Bill Simmons:It was like you're basically your significant other made you watch it.

1:52:14Sean Fennessey:Will you take the money for the 20 years from now spectrum funded reunion of the Rewatchables cast where everybody who hasn't seen each other in a long time is just like, oh, Van Lathan, Kyle Brandt, Craig, you're all growns up. You'll do it.

1:52:30Bill Simmons:It'd be great. I'm never letting you guys go. So it won't be a reunion. What if you can't make my rate at that point? By who? What if you just can't make my rate at that point? You can't hit my number. Rich Paul shows up on your behalf.

1:52:45Bill Simmons:Rich, when you realize Bill Simmons couldn't meet CR's rate anymore. I rate. Is that a per episode rate? Yeah. Okay. Cruz or Hanks? I had Cruz as Burke.

1:53:00Sean Fennessey:Whoa. I have Cruz as Hicks and Hanks as Hudson.

1:53:04Bill Simmons:Hanks as Hudson. Yeah. 80s Hanks. That's pretty good. That would be awesome. But if you could only have one, who do you have? I think Cruz's Hicks. What do you have? I kind of like Hanks in this movie more. I like Hanks as Hudson. Hanks as Hudson's fun. Good backup. They both would be good. I just think Cruz going, this is clearly an important species. You know? Are you working on your Cruz? Yeah, that's good. 1994 Demi Moore, 2003 Angelina, 2014 Charlize, or 2026 Zendaya? for Ripley. I had 14 Charlize. I had as well.

1:53:41Sean Fennessey:I had Angelina and it made me think you made that that great point about how this becomes Ripley's franchise. And I wonder if there was a way to pivot this after she dies after three because they try to give you like Winona Ryder and Resurrection. You know, Romulus is giving you Kaylee Spaney. They never quite found Catherine Waterston. Catherine Waterston, yeah. Kind of like Charlize's and Prometheus. Like you never quite get the real inheritor of Ripley's throne.

1:54:07Bill Simmons:Zendaya has that secret height. Physicality. She's like 5 '8". Oh, I think she's taller than that. 5 '9"? Depends on what the part is. Just the lot of her with the gun going.

1:54:20Sean Fennessey:Making the Zendaya face.

1:54:24Bill Simmons:Ruined space.

1:54:25Sean Fennessey:The Ru face. Has Ru face replaced Shammet face?

1:54:28Bill Simmons:I love. The Rick Chichetti. Who is it? Rick Chichetti? This is your category. Yeah, but yes. But a reader sent it in. Yeah. I forgot what movie it was. The guard beat award for most memorable death by a security guard or other bystander. When you start doing this, but you're like, who is it? Derek? Derek Gray? Derek Black? Derek White? Right? Like, when you lose the Celtics, we'll have to have an intervention. Whatever, however you pronounce that name, it goes to the helicopter crash pilot. Spunkmeyer and Pharaoh. Yeah. Can I also say Pharaoh? Just going to save some people. All of a sudden, there's an alien ripping through my heart.

1:55:05Bill Simmons:drop ship pilot Pharaoh yeah throw my life away for her wow aviator sunglasses get out of here she's in the Tina Wheeler Nicholson category yeah it's a good good stretch for CR here 8586 if Pharaoh wants to fly me to the moon let's go yeah picket nets I mean obviously the first one is this is just a classic and it's a sequel device but nobody's listening to Ripley on this yeah she's more experienced and knowledge than all of you combined and they're like, I don't know. It's like, don't go back there to the colony and they laid eggs and it's really bad.

1:55:41Sean Fennessey:And they're like, yeah, whatever. It's one of the great gaslighting scenes in movie history that when she has to testify in the inquest and she's giving them all this information and there's the woman who's like - Did IQ suddenly drop? Yeah. Where like the woman repeats the thing where she's like, so you're telling me that there's a species that ingests, you know, like that whole thing is so, as the viewer, you're so on Ripley's side.

1:56:00Bill Simmons:Our guy there, our guy McClane, that was like the next four diehards, right? Each time they're like, ah, what do you know, John McClane? Yeah, we have a... Who's foiled five terrorist attacks. We have a Washington, D.C. airport to run here. Speaking of that scene, the sort of, I guess, deposition scene or whatever she's doing with the board members. And that woman is like, nothing has been documented like what you're describing in however many hundreds of worlds that we've surveyed. But then when those guys, the Marines, are in the mess hall in the beginning of the movie, they're talking about having sex with aliens so which one is it?

1:56:36Is it that there are aliens but they're nice and they have sex with you or that that's like a little bit of a mistake or more questions than answers. Yeah I'd say so. Arcturian pussy that's what he's talking about.

1:56:50Bill Simmons:Didn't they have to scale back one of the things because it looked a little vulva-y one of the alien things? They did not scale back. It looks like the plunge against the glass. would Ripley really get back to work after a 57 year hiatus or would she maybe think of some other stuff to do professionally I think that they've really jobbed her I think that's in the director's cut is like they're basically like you're not financially liable but we've like suspended all of your money making ability and you have no money

1:57:20Sean Fennessey:I'll just say one more time if you're gonna rewatch this movie I encourage you to watch the director's cut

1:57:26Bill Simmons:how did the little girl survive by herself on the alien spaceship Thank you. Just kind of making do.

1:57:32Sean Fennessey:I mean, that point is made by the characters at a certain point. You know, it's like if she was able to do it, then we can do it. Put her in charge. Yeah.

1:57:42Bill Simmons:Why did Ripley blow up the eggs when they were blowing up the whole spaceship anyway? Or the whole thing anyway? I thought that that was... Just get the fuck out of there and then blow it up. Ripley tried hanging on the rim at the end of the game there. And I honestly, like, I just feel like that was a... You have plenty of time here to get out of there. so it was a breakaway and she tried to do the 360 dunk instead of just laying it in

1:58:04Sean Fennessey:I read that differently I read that as like she has this primal expression of revenge sure mom versus mom

1:58:11Bill Simmons:yeah

1:58:11Sean Fennessey:like I have to take out this force that is responsible for destroying my life

1:58:15Bill Simmons:she Sophie Cunningham pointed at her she did

1:58:18Sean Fennessey:she did she did with a with a flamethrower yeah

1:58:24Bill Simmons:walking around

1:58:24Sean Fennessey:that whole moment in the movie which we probably didn't talk about enough but the way that the sound and score goes quiet as we watch the eggs get laid and then we it's revealed the shape and size of the mother alien.

1:58:38Bill Simmons:Like the tube?

1:58:39Sean Fennessey:Yeah, it is. Fuck. And they built all that stuff. It's really cool. It's so cool.

1:58:43Bill Simmons:It looks great on the 4K too. I think for a pick and knit, Ripley loses the last fight with her dumb contraption that she's in, which she's exposed all over the place. Like alien tentacles can come flying in. It's five different areas. One thing I do like about her

1:58:58Sean Fennessey:fight style though. This is pure Pacquiao. It's all anticipatory jabs. Like everything is like she's getting ready to clock the alien before the alien can even recover from the shot. Yeah. You know where she's like you can feel her rearing back so that as soon as it recovers she can go in again.

1:59:14Bill Simmons:What do you think about this? The giant what is it called? Just her fight strategy.

1:59:17Sean Fennessey:The mother alien. Oh the power loader?

1:59:19Bill Simmons:Yeah. Kind of avatar-esque also from Cameron. Very similar.

1:59:26Bill Simmons:A little rock 'em sock 'em robots-ish. Yeah. Sort of a slow-mo Pacino and cruising dance.

1:59:35Bill Simmons:Twice in one week for that. My only other nitpick was that everyone gets sucked out at the end. The airlock. I don't think there's any survivors. That airlock is just, I can't even imagine the gravity. I wish there was just one more beat to get this across, but when Ripley doesn't let them fucking execute Burke, when it's been kind of discovered that he's the one. Yeah, just shoot him in the head. Yeah, like Hudson or Hicks wastes that dude. And she's like, no, we have to bring him back to Earth so that he can be accountable for his crimes against humanity and Weyland-Yutani can be brought down.

2:00:08But I think they needed a little bit more explanation of that. And I also think Marines would have been like, fuck that, this guy's getting smoked. They would have just torched him, yeah.

2:00:15Bill Simmons:Especially he was taking insurance claims and he was supposed to only report 3%. Yeah, that's right. Weyland-Yutani bought the Dodgers. Letting Magic Johnson buy one of his funds. He was taking loans against future xenomorphs. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like he really played it out.

2:00:29Sean Fennessey:He was playing the long game. Weyland-Yutani cost us the 2027 baseball season. It's fucked up.

2:00:34Bill Simmons:Any other nitpicks? We hit almost all of them. I always found that for as much as it's my favorite scene in the movie and for as iconic as it is, it's pretty stupid that they don't think about the ceiling in the tracker scene. We're like, where could they be coming from? It doesn't even look like it's a ceiling. It's just like poster board up there. It's all drop ceiling everywhere.

2:00:58Sean Fennessey:Yeah. Any nitpicks from you? I think I was just slightly underwhelmed by the skill of this Marine crew. I didn't feel like they were that different from the guys from Alien 1, which were not Marines. I felt like it was a very similar kind of strategy. I think that's part of why it's a very good Vietnam critique because going into Vietnam, there's a lot of confidence about the power of our military. And it was quickly revealed that they were not well suited to that fight given the circumstances. And so I feel like that's baked in that no matter how badass Vasquez is she doesn't really stand a chance

2:01:28Bill Simmons:do you feel the same way about the guys who run the ringer fantasy football league yeah

2:01:33Sean Fennessey:yeah I think they're a little over their skis with all their a lot of swagger rules and declarations and certitude about how things should be played I don't you know how about running past some more experienced men we can't get anybody to respond to our texts in the group chat that's what that's what Burke should have said that

2:01:53Bill Simmons:sequel prequel prestige to be all black cast untouchable they basically did I mean we have to go all broadcast because they've done everything else yeah they've done every other version seven sequels to this movie is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins Fergie the Flores Zane Lowe Robert Evans Dr. Charles Nichols Ted Levine or someone else Ripley you've been asleep for 57 years you lost a daughter you've been held liable for the detonation of a spaceship stop looking me in the eye and now you've you've returned to LV426 but I think what's at the front of everybody's minds is who is this Ellen Ripley who we meet now.

2:02:26What kind of music is she making?

2:02:33He did a...

2:02:35Sean Fennessey:He should pivot to that. This kind of interview style. Interviewing Ellen Ripley? Yeah. Well, just like getting figures on that have done this kind of work. I think it's for you. I think you should get a much more comfortable chair in the big picture room and you should start getting like Hannah Einbein to...

2:02:52And just adopt his accent? Yeah. Or my accent of his accent. You've been talking about wanting to revise this category a little bit. What was the other one I had? Well, it was Barney from The Vanishing. I think we could bring Hudson into this. Barney from Vanishing. Hello, Ripley.

2:03:09Bill Simmons:I'm who you're looking for. I'm Barney.

2:03:16Sean Fennessey:That's very good.

2:03:17Bill Simmons:Yeah, I think we could refresh this. I think we have a couple of guys. Maybe the listeners could send some suggestions. because we've done some limitations over the years that we just forget about

2:03:25Sean Fennessey:well we've never done it before but I always love Frank Hackett in Network the Robert Duvall part where he's like I've got a big fat big titted hip and Ronnie can't tell me anything anymore

2:03:37Bill Simmons:like Duvall going apeshit is my favorite yeah yeah we probably have to work Duvall in at some point yeah we gotta revise the category we've kind of although Fergie the florist still has Fergie has some juice I think it's always nice to get Zane in there Dr. Charles Nichols I think we've put put Wayne into like waiting for Bernthal's own you know well now we have the Odysseus oh yeah it's our guy his buddy yeah

2:04:06Sean Fennessey:Menelaus Menelaus we can use him what would be the best movie to do with Bernthal is it a Bernthal movie definitely I would say a military movie Gorillas in the Mist or like could you do you've got mail you've got mail

2:04:24Bill Simmons:I don't know I think it's some military thing where he gets to talk about the training and how that the grip and how hard it is to do the shooting scene he's somebody who I think would be good to talk to about movies he's been in I know that people are sometimes reticent to do that but I bet if he did Sicario or if he did I don't know he would be good Fury Shot Caller Wolf Wall Street Wolf Wall Street just want to ask her who gets it for you guys Cameron Big Jim Big Jim for director for director This is an astonishing action.

2:04:52Sean Fennessey:No shots to Oliver Stone.

2:04:55Bill Simmons:Got to see who else was nominated.

2:04:59Sean Fennessey:This movie won two Oscars, right? For special effects and sound editing.

2:05:03Bill Simmons:Best Director. Stone wins. David Lynch, Blue Velvet, Woody Allen, Hannah and Her Sisters, Roland Jaffe, The Mission, James Ivory, Room of the View.

2:05:11Sean Fennessey:All great movies.

2:05:14Bill Simmons:That's a great lineup. When are we going to do The Mission on Rewatchables? I haven't seen it in forever. Is that... Beautiful movie. Tubi or somewhere better?

2:05:21Sean Fennessey:It's a little quiet. It is a gorgeous score, though.

2:05:24Bill Simmons:Great. And you're more Coney? Unanswerable questions. Yeah. Watch this movie on a streamer. Sigourney's teeth look yellow because it's like classic 80s. Like the pressed white strips, smoker, all that stuff. Then in the 4K transfer, sparkling white. That's Big Jim. That's attention to detail. You think Big Jim?

2:05:45Sean Fennessey:Probably.

2:05:45Bill Simmons:Him and Fincher. I Googled it and looked for it and they were like, He did not do stuff like that. I think he did.

2:05:53Sean Fennessey:They deploy AI to make some of these decisions, though, too. Sort of like encourage color grading in certain sequences.

2:06:00Bill Simmons:Because I think in general, the movies from the 70s, 80s, like the coffee cigarette teeth is really bad. And I think they definitely mess with that. Hibernation pods. Can we just talk about this? Yeah. What's going on here? Do you want them or do you think that they're... If you could go into hypersleep and wake up in the future, would you want to experiment with that? Let's really talk about the mechanics here. 57 years, so no bathroom. Never wake up. You're just out. Then you wake up. Do you immediately have to go to the bathroom? I think that this is an incredible point because it would be one thing if she woke up and she had crazy amounts of tubes in her.

2:06:39You couldn't even make it through this podcast. You had to pee an hour ago.

2:06:43Bill Simmons:So is she like, oh, hibernation? oh my god I have to pee so bad

2:06:49Sean Fennessey:to me I thought about hunger

2:06:50Bill Simmons:it's like

2:06:51Sean Fennessey:do you just need a fucking hoagie as soon as you get out of there

2:06:54Bill Simmons:so you come out of the hibernation pad what's the first thing you're doing taking a shower I think I'd be on my phone just trying to figure out who won the last 57 NBA titles oh my god I was like then I'm gonna pee what I would like to do oh my god 2044 the Clippers they did it at the aspiration dome, no less. But they, everybody seems so unfazed when they wake up and 57 years have passed. Well, no, I don't think they're asleep for 57 years. She was asleep for 57 years because she was like, she was lost out there. I think they went to sleep for like a year or something to get out there. Yeah, but she did 57 at the start and wakes up and she's like, is my apartment still there?

2:07:38Sean Fennessey:Oh, I have my stuff. In my version of Aliens where I'm Ripley, I wake up and I look at the sports results over the last 57 years, and I realize that the Jets did, in fact, win the title. They won the Super Bowl. Be so mad. But then I realize it's a nightmare and a chestburster breaks through, and then I wake up and then I check again and the Jets still haven't won. No Super Bowls. I would like to be the guy who basically didn't go to sleep and was watching the ship for the time that everybody was asleep so that I could get really good at one thing. And when you guys woke up, I would be like, oh yeah, I can draw a golf ball now.

2:08:13I'm actually a plus five. Let's go to the range. I want to show you something.

2:08:20Bill Simmons:Yeah, I just think... My short game is basically like airtight. You could make a movie about somebody just waking up from the hibernation pod in their next 90 minutes. Isn't there a comedy about that? Rocket Man? Isn't that what the premise of that movie is? I think you're right. I like that as a kid. The Harlan Williams movie. Yeah, that was funny. I don't know if I know that movie.

2:08:35Sean Fennessey:Yeah, the guy who's like six squirrels sitting on a nut. Oh, that guy. The guy from there, something about Mary.

2:08:42Bill Simmons:worst ways to go in a movie being cocooned I wouldn't want that to happen it's gotta be top five would you rather get cocooned or torn in half torn in half because you die immediately yeah unless you're an android cocooned is like that's

2:08:54Sean Fennessey:I feel like it's being implanted oh and having the alien pop out that's even worse to me yeah because you don't die right away because it's happening to you you're observing it and then you have to bleed out

2:09:03Bill Simmons:the cocoon is a slow death though yeah that I mean that could be like 11 days do we know that for a fact I don't know I don't know if it's in the director's cut but it is a deleted scene where Burke Ripley comes across Burke and he's been cocooned but they were like we can't do that there was a whole reason why they were like timeline wise he would not be cocooned at this point I think the worst way anyone's ever died in a movie is the guy from Seven who got starved and then they went they thought the guy was dead but he breathed and they got that guy had the worst death of any movie

2:09:41Sean Fennessey:that's when John McGinley's like dicks

2:09:43Bill Simmons:that's my favorite line reading in that whole movie my only other unanswerable was what do Bishop's next few years look like he's just basically a torso and a head well they connect him to the prison planet and then at the end of Alien 3 Bishop's creator who looks just like Bishop shows up so they save them No, it's just like, he's like David, where it's like they're made in the image of the person who made the android, kind of. You don't think they just wheeled him around for the next couple years? It'd be fun, yeah. Put a little burlap bag around his intestines so they didn't leak. Bishop, can you still do the knife trick?

2:10:25Sean Fennessey:I mean, it's just like C-3PO in the Star Wars movies, too. He gets torn apart and then put back together. Memorability you'd most want from the movie? One of the armored plate vests that they have. Ed Vasquez's headband. Nice.

2:10:38Bill Simmons:Oh, that's really good. Not Vasquez's tape. Well, I'd take that too. I think one of the guns would be pretty cool. Yeah. Like a fire gun. What would you want, Craig? A gun is a 60-pound gun just like up here in the studio. Putting it right next to Gabe Kaplan. Coach Finstock, Mr. Miyagi, we're our best worst life lesson. Don't go back to your personal hell.

2:10:57Sean Fennessey:Mm-hmm.

2:10:58Bill Simmons:Seems wise. Sometimes you just gotta nuke the site from orbit just to be sure.

2:11:03Sean Fennessey:I think I'm just out on cryo sleep. That's a takeaway. just maybe don't participate in that because you just never know when you're going to wait I don't want 57 years to go by

2:11:12Bill Simmons:yeah best double feature choice Alien I have Alien I have Alien as well but also Platoon really I like this I like the Vietnam bit today nice work by you thanks who won the movie I think Sigourney Weaver

2:11:29Sean Fennessey:hmm my gut is Cameron because he elevates to the highest class with this? I mean, is there a more blank checky movie than The Abyss? It's like a crazy weird premise idea and like he getting to do and you know, it's like it doesn't totally work but it allows him to go on and on and on. So I feel like drowning his actors. I feel like it's Cameron. My argument for it is that Ripley becomes like a much more iconic character after Aliens than she did after Alien and that like I think Sigourney Weaver is associated with this giant blockbuster franchise for most of its existence until Ridley comes back.

2:12:07Bill Simmons:so we have one Cameron vote or one Weaver vote what do you think? I vote Cameron I think Weaver short term Cameron long term I mean on a personal level and on a like every time I rewatch I get excited it's Paxton but I think objectively I think it's either Cameron or Paxton was the late 80s zag take like when people thought the replacements were better than R.E.M. same thing just saying

2:12:35Sean Fennessey:This has been a very friendly, cordial, entertaining podcast. It's like Paxton Wood Aliens.

2:12:40Bill Simmons:It's like cool. He's getting a little afraid that we're going to leave him. I know. So he's going to... A little poke. The pod. A little poke. Where are you guys going? It's not going anywhere. Spectrum has made a really good offer. It's true. Yeah. Tiebreaker vote? In the movie itself, I like Weaver.

2:13:00Sean Fennessey:And now it's 2-2. Do you ever put who won the movie to a public vote? it would be an interesting in instances like this where it's like you've got two clear icons coming out of this movie we used to do polls in the past but sometimes it was like an easy answer so we wouldn't put it up but when it's a true split we should do it this is a cool one it's a good debate I'd like to know I'd like to know that also same for alien or aliens

2:13:24Bill Simmons:I'm just gonna say the same thing it would be funny if we do this and then it turns out like with the WNBA when people people parachute in because they can oh yeah politicize it You think Ennis Cantor is going to weigh in on this? Ennis Cantor is like, we've got to protect James Cameron.

2:13:40Sean Fennessey:He's won the movie. But all the MAGA people are like protecting Jeanette Goldstein's right to portray Vasquez.

2:13:47Bill Simmons:Cantor identifies as a xenomorph. Craig, you've never seen this movie. No, I've been waiting a long time. I loved it. I love that. I love that they feel separate, alien and aliens. You don't have to choose because they're such different movies. It's a little bit of like Dune and Dune 2 to me. like the quiet opening story and then like the full-fledged action movie and the sequel. I think I lean Alien. I think Alien is like perfect. Can I ask you, do you think it had anything? Did you watch Alien also on a laptop? I've seen Alien multiple times on my TV. Last night I was trapped for time. I couldn't blast Aliens at like 1 a.m.

2:14:22Sean Fennessey:in my apartment, so I had to watch it on my laptop. So maybe that hurt it. We fucked up because they just ran Aliens on 70 at the Village Theater. I want to say, all the way on the west side. And Cameron went to it, right? And Cameron showed up. Yeah. And Cameron introduced the movie and then he sat down in like the third row and watched it with everybody.

2:14:40Bill Simmons:That's the kind of shit I would do if I was a famous movie director. I mean, it's... Just show up at your own screenings. Yeah. It's like, what better feeling could you have? You can still do that. You can come do a Sixers game and watch Jalen Brown. You know what's crazy about this movie? I was looking at the budget being$18 million. Yeah. It's like, sure, it's the 80s. If you adjust that to now, that's only 54.

2:15:01Sean Fennessey:Yeah. I'm like, a sequel to a movie like Alien now, it would have cost$200 million. I can't believe that even in 1986, after a follow-up to a hit, they only spent$18 million on this movie, and it looked as good as it did. We just said this was Speed. Yeah.

2:15:16Bill Simmons:Speed was 31, and they blew up five parts of LA. But at least Speed was original. And so you didn't know if it was... I mean, the fact that this is Aliens coming off the director who made The Terminator, and it's only$18 million to me, is just crazy, the scale, how much it's jumped. I think some of it had to do with cast. They're not using$20 million movie actors. Sigourney Weaver has to fight to get a million dollars and some box office participation on this one. Michael Biehn and Bill Paxton and Jeanette Goldstein are not major movie stars. Paul Reiser's... It's a sci-fi horror movie, which there's just not a track record of big box office.

2:15:52Bill Simmons:Yeah, but this was going to be a big movie, right? People knew...

2:15:55Sean Fennessey:Well, you said at the beginning it was one of the biggest movies of the summer, one of the biggest movies of the year, but it was not there was not no expectation that it would be a franchise because it has such a it's kind of a bummer of a movie the original Alien you know it's a very kind of sad contemplative

2:16:12Bill Simmons:pretty early for sequels just in general this is only like a 10 year run of us wrapping our head around a sequel might actually be good

2:16:21Sean Fennessey:well it's also that classic thing of like you mentioned Alan Ladd going out at the studio and the guy coming in and the guy who came in just didn't get it he wasn't a part of Alien the first time around he didn't have any vested interest yeah exactly and that's like but you know Cameron's big thing was I can't remember who told him this I think it was Julia Phillips but it was like you shouldn't do the aliens because if anything goes right with it people will be like well Ridley Scott that's all Ridley Scott's idea and if anything goes wrong with it you'll get blamed but so it is like a real risk for him to do this this is the rare like Chris Connolly

2:16:58Sean Fennessey:spicy I like that indeed I can you think of another example of a franchise where the first and second movies are arguably as good as each other and they're made by different directors no because you usually what you get is it's basically impossible you get Batman Begins in Dark Knight or Batman and Batman Returns but you never want that Toy Story, Toy Story 2, Godfather 2.

2:17:24Bill Simmons:Sometimes it would have helped. I think Escape from L.A. would have been better with a different director. Oh, interesting. And I love John Carpenter. I really like Die Hard 2, but in no way is it close to Die Hard 1. Yeah, yeah.

2:17:35Sean Fennessey:I mean, you know, the Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back, they're different filmmakers, but it's all from Lucas.

2:17:41Bill Simmons:I guess Taboo 2 had two different directors. Interesting. From Taboo 1. That's true. Top Gun Maverick? Oh. albeit quite a long time after Top Gun. I prefer Maverick to the original. I've been cranking it. Cranking Top Gun Maverick? Cranking it to Top Gun Maverick? It's on a lot. Yeah. It's on, I think, the four Showtime channels. I can't believe you're still doing this. I love the guide. I love jumping into movies. Do you still do this?

2:18:13Sean Fennessey:I have it. Do you go what's on the movie channels right now? I did for a while. I still love it. And then I think the amount of DVDs and also just like, just watching. You guys are missing out.

2:18:24Bill Simmons:Showtime is basically just showing both Godfathers and Top Gun Maverick and they're just on all the time. And it's amazing.

2:18:31Sean Fennessey:What does that tell you about what people want from them?

2:18:33Bill Simmons:Yeah, they know. Yeah. They know what's going on. They know the drill. And then HBO3 is now just doing marathons. Of their shows, right? They're just like, we're running the wire this week. We're running the Sopranos. I saw Thrones was on for a while. We're doing Curb. We're running the whole... I like what's happening. Cable guides are back. Pluto's back. Tubi. Like, the whole, like, let's jump in and I get to, you're picking the stuff for me.

2:18:56Sean Fennessey:When is the CR and Joanna Sopranos pod happening? What's that? Oh, because we haven't watched Sopranos? Yeah, start to finish. It's unforgivable. I've seen The Sopranos. I just didn't watch it contemporaneously, and I haven't seen every episode. You dropped a Vito reference on the pod this week, and you were like, you guys haven't seen Sopranos. Like, we can't let it die. I've seen Sopranos. Heifetz hasn't seen Sopranos.

2:19:19Bill Simmons:or he watched it out of order. Heifetz just did his 40-year-old virgin smile when I brought up. It was very nice to say. Next week on the Rewatchables, I'm off. Craig is Captain Phillips-ing it. But not with Captain Phillips. With the Fantasy Guys. For Captain Phillips? No, he's the Fantasy Guys. They're doing Talladega Knights next week. Oh, nice. Yeah, get us ready for football season. Yeah.

2:19:43Sean Fennessey:I'm sure the Mavs have fucked that up too, just like they fucked up the draft.

2:19:46Bill Simmons:Yeah. You're entitled to feel how you want to feel.

2:19:54Bill Simmons:and then we'll be back we have some good ones good ones we have a kind of planning a horror movie month right now for October that I think is going to be pretty spectacular exciting be banking on both the we're going to do that listen what else do you want from me well Rich comes calling again if we don't get Red October

2:20:13Sean Fennessey:we're going to have big problems over here

2:20:15Bill Simmons:we did Sicario we did Aliens what else do you want last night

2:20:22Sean Fennessey:what's left the names are coming off the board now though I know like it's getting whittled down all the long time requests yes I still have my list but yes after Hunt for Red October is there anything

2:20:35Bill Simmons:Apocalypse Now

2:20:37Sean Fennessey:somebody asked me on a pod we have some good ones

2:20:39Bill Simmons:Scarface is left yeah

2:20:40Sean Fennessey:somebody asked me this week if I could do any movie what would I want to do and I said I want to do The Master but just me and you

2:20:47Bill Simmons:The Master yeah wow anyway uh cr thank you fantasy thank you craig thank you thanks to gahau as well and uh we'll be back next week with talladega knights

2:21:10Sean Fennessey:this episode is brought to you by the movie mutiny only in theaters august 21st jason Statham stars in Mutiny, the new action thriller from the director of Plane. When an international

2:21:22Bill Simmons:conspiracy turns deadly, Statham goes off the grid on a one-man mission to take down those responsible. If you're a fan of The Beekeeper, The Meg, or The Expendables, this is exactly the kind of movie you want to see Statham in. One of the defining action stars of the last 25 years, doing what he does best. Think Die Hard on a boat.

2:21:43Sean Fennessey:Mutiny, only in theaters August 21st, Rated R for strong bloody violence and language.