‘Basic Instinct’ Live From SF With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Mallory Rubin, and Van Lathan

11:40Mallory Rubin:yeah so

11:42Bill Simmons:I was going to talk about this later because we got to get into Sharon Stone but Roxy just comes and goes she's in this movie and she's the cop stripper in Days and Thunder never seen again you look at her IMDB it's like she just I don't know what happened but if you just saw this movie you would have thought she was going to be as big of a star as Sharon Stone or at least close um no at least for me if you saw this movie now you definitely would think that's a person who's going to be responsible for generating a lot of memes. Yeah. Which is powerful in its own way. But Sharon Stone, you watch this movie and you're like, this is the most powerful force of nature, like a hurricane in human form.

12:19That's not exactly what Roxy is giving. She's giving. Yeah, Roxy provoked different emotions. You know, I never went for the Sharon Stone types.

12:30In, you mean the Catherine Trammell types or just Sharon Stone? No, what I mean is that like, You go to the club with your boys.

12:37Bill Simmons:I'm going to buckle up. And everyone goes, yo, we got to have this girl. I would always look at her friend. I'd be like, her friend is the one that's not getting any attention. She's looking at her friend on the dance floor. She's pissed off. She's like, look at all them motherfuckers looking at her. I wish I was her. And then I come over and I validate her. I go, girl, you are her. That's Roxy.

13:02Mallory Rubin:Somebody just needed to validate her. Yeah.

13:08Bill Simmons:a quote in this movie about the sharon stone character mallory i love it she's got a hundred million bucks she fucks fighters and rock and roll stars and she's got a degree in screwing with people's heads and that's not the craziest thing said about her during this movie no or the craziest thing that she says i mean the quotes in this movie are astonishing one of the uh wonderful colleagues elizabeth live events head that rock star our own rock star uh hasn't seen this movie We were backstage with her and I was thinking, wouldn't it be fun if we did like a, is this a real quote from this movie game with her?

13:38Right. Because like you could break out. Have you ever fucked on cocaine, Nick? It's nice. And then you could break out. There's cum. All over these sheets. Right. And you would get like 45 lines. No, that's not how he says it. All over. There's no way. Before he got off. Impressive. That would have been a fun game show. We could have gone 150 lines deep before we even had to put the first fake quote in there. It's amazing.

14:09Bill Simmons:Elizabeth does the live shows for us, and she always watches the movie on the flight to the location. And we were like, no! Yeah. No! Not this time. You need a privacy screen for that one. Please, no. Who is... Like, what actress now, Vane, would be the Sharon Stone that you would cast in this movie? Interesting question. Because this does feel generational, right? It does. You go through, because there was a Kathleen Turner face where she would have been in it. So this movie came out at a different time, okay? We have penises now. This movie came out when we had dicks. Yeah. Completely different.

14:47We didn't have to pretend like it was something nice about what was happening. It was aggressive. It was primal. Now I'm trying to think who could bring that energy? Who could do that and not give a fuck, not care? Maybe Margaret Qualley. Maybe she's a little bit like that. You know, I don't know. It's different now because if you make the movie now, everyone's going to be so self-aware of everything that's happening. This movie kind of, like, careens through its plot with reckless abandon and it doesn't really care what anyone thinks about it. It would be difficult to, like, cast somebody in that role and have them just be completely free.

15:19I know we, like, always end up picking the same person, but is it not Sydney Sweeney? Is it not?

15:27Bill Simmons:I mean, obviously she could pull it off. I think so Wow Here's the difference Here's the difference though with Sharon Stone and why this movie was so important where she had popped in stuff but we didn't really have a history with her She was sure too

15:43Mallory Rubin:She was like she had been in a bunch of stuff She was in Action Jackson Yeah

15:47Bill Simmons:And I remember like she was in Irreconcilable Differences which is a great divorce movie which is not available anywhere But she was in that in like 1982 and for 10 years was just bouncing around What was the Alan Quartermain one?

16:00Mallory Rubin:Steven Seagal.

16:01Bill Simmons:Yeah, she was in a Seagal movie. And just Total Recall was probably the biggest movie that she was in, right? She's great in that. So this was kind of her moment. I don't know who that actress is now. The point is that at this juncture in her career, she was hungry enough to do a movie like this and not hold anything back. So if we talk about actresses that are in that situation now, we're going to talk about more established actresses. but like this is like a controversial role. You have to really go a lot of places that could end up really being combustible for your career like it was for Elizabeth Berkley and Showgirls or it could make you like it did for Sharon Stone in basic history.

16:38Bill Simmons:So they get Michael Douglas for$14 million for this movie and then he gets kind of semi-approval for who the female star is going to be. Sharon Stone was the 13th choice. She made$500 ,000 which was less than$14 million. In part though because of what you're just saying, right? He really wanted somebody who was equally famous and renowned to kind of... They were anticipating that it would be controversial, right? He wanted Kim Basinger, right? Yeah, he was like, I need somebody who's going to be able to shoulder the load of the blowback.

17:08Mallory Rubin:And I do remember, like, you can see it now when you... Plenty of blowback in the movie. When you go on and read about, like, its release now, she's such a wild card because she's kind of like, I have nothing to lose. So she's saying crazy shit in interviews. and she was, you know, her vibe is not like, I'm a well-established star, I know exactly what I'm doing. She's kind of like, I'm blowing this pot, Stan, before I get out of here.

17:34Bill Simmons:Well, they offered it to Michelle Pfeiffer who said no, and thank God, because I think that might have actually killed me if she was in this movie. I'd be dead. I don't know who's hosting this. It wouldn't be me. It would be somebody else. CR, Sharon's still not nominated for an Oscar for this movie. Yeah, I'm sorry, April. I'll give you the nominees. Please do. Emma Thompson wins for Howard's End. Catherine Deneuve for Indochene? Is that how you say it? Imogene? Sure. Mary McDonald for Passionfish. Michelle Pfeiffer for Love Field. And Susan Sarandon for Lorenzo's Oil. Interesting. I think we could have snuck Sharon in there, guys.

18:17Bill Simmons:I don't know. Like, who else could have done the...

18:21Mallory Rubin:This movie made$356 million. This is a useful place to ask this. Do you take this movie seriously?

18:33Bill Simmons:I don't. Yeah. I think it's a great time. My wife hates it because I love throwing it. You've said this a million times. It's a vibes movie. It is a vibes movie, for sure. I like being in San Francisco. I like watching them smoke. I like the nightclub scene. Yeah. Michael Douglas, who we're going to get to in a second, it's in the running for funniest performance of the 90s. It's amazing. It's historic. He doesn't know it's funny, but everyone else knows it's hilarious. And it's just a fun movie to hang out with.

19:06Mallory Rubin:This run of Paul Verhoeven movies works because even Paul Verhoeven is like, we need to make this funny movie incredibly seriously. Right. Starship Troopers is kind of the same thing. I think they all know they're in this insane movie about bugs. I don't think Douglas does. What's that? I don't think Michael Douglas knows that this is funny. I think Michael Douglas knows. I think he's like, for this to work, I have to 100 % commit. But if you read that script, you're like, this is bullshit and it's hilarious.

19:34Bill Simmons:He's 47 when he makes the movie.

19:37Mallory Rubin:Wow, I still got time. Wow.

19:41Bill Simmons:Yeah. Boy.

19:46Bill Simmons:probably should have been a younger actor would be my take come on man no what are you talking about you say no on that well first of all I support an age difference as you know you know among consenting adults but I I think there's something about Nick being in like a midlife crisis it's actually pretty important he's had a marriage his wife killed herself he has committed four shootings in five years he was undercover He has to have the runway to have lived that much life. You know? You can't have, like, a 25-year-old whippersnapper on the force. You need somebody with some red in their ledger.

20:22Mallory Rubin:Here's the thing. He is one of the biggest movie stars who, throughout his career, routinely takes a chance with the way the audience sees him. And is like, I don't mind playing the hero who's a piece of shit. And, you know, he's, like, not, he's the main star of Wall Street. You know, he does these things where he's like, I'll push my boat out and make sure people have a really provocative experience. When you say how the audience sees him, do you mean specifically him walking toward a bathroom mirror with his scrotum, swinging under his ass? So that his balls don't swing. Consider the time, right?

20:56So you're in a Mel Gibson, Kevin Costner, which we're going to talk a little bit about that later, time where all of those guys are kind of competing to be the all-American movie star. and really his lane is being the freak. He's a fucking freak. He's a freak in disclosure. He's a freak in this. He's a fucking freak in Fatal Attraction. This motherfucker's a freak. And no one else really wants to do it. He'll do it. He's great at it and he kind of makes his career at least the second half of it on that.

21:26Bill Simmons:He's been in a lot of rewatchables movies. He's not anyone's favorite actor, but he's been in a ton of everybody's favorite movies. Wouldn't it be weird to meet a Michael Douglas super fan? Yeah, this is my guy. Me and Mike. But I mean... My site, MikeyDougFan.com. From 84 on, he rips off Romance in the Stone, Jewel of the Nile, Chorus Line, Fatal Attraction, Wall Street, wins the Oscar, Black Rain, War of the Roses, Basic Instinct, Falling Down, Disclosure, American President, Ghost in Darkness, The Game, Perfect Murder, Wonder Boys, Traffic. You're fucking crazy.

22:03Mallory Rubin:That's amazing work. And with the producer. American President is the weird movie in that group. Yeah.

22:10Bill Simmons:Right.

22:10Mallory Rubin:I keep waiting for the American President to be, like, jerking off under the Resolute desk, but he's like, no, I'm just a really good guy.

22:17Bill Simmons:It's on the extended Blu-ray. Yeah, director's cut. Craig, you're younger than us. What's your relationship with Michael Douglas, just wandering into this after the fact?

22:26Mallory Rubin:I don't even think I have one. I don't know what the go-to Michael Douglas role is. I asked my wife, Liz, I'm like, what's your opinion on Michael Douglas? Like, did you ever think he was hot? And she's like, honestly, no, he's just kind of a creep. Was Michael Douglas ever like a top three love interest in Hollywood? Man, let me tell you something. Yeah. My mom used to look at Fable Attraction and be like.

22:51Mallory Rubin:I see what she was going on about. Look at that. Could you say he's Harrison Ford, Darkseid Harrison Ford? No way. No, because Harrison Ford is God tier. You can't say anyone is any version of Harrison Ford. Get the fuck out of here.

23:03Bill Simmons:What are you thinking? What's wrong with you? But Harrison Ford, Costner, Douglas, Gere, those were the men who my mom was like obsessed with and loved. And Michael Douglas was the one who didn't quite catch for me in terms of being like sexually obsessed with him. Though I will tell you guys that when I booted up this movie to prepare, to rewatch it, to prepare for this live show, you know, there's a pretty famous moment in this movie that I think a lot of people pause on, right? You might, well, it'll come up tonight. I think. I had paused at a different moment. I booted up the director's cut and it was at one hour, 11 minutes and 43 seconds, which is the side cock shot during the fuck of the century scene.

23:46So I guess that was where I had just checked in, booted it up at some point, taken a look, paused it, left, and there it was waiting for me.

23:53Mallory Rubin:Do you think that was in between the two rewatchables? I was watching it with my husband and he's like, that seems right. Probably. Yeah. I mean, it was six years ago, the last rewatchables. I've definitely looked at that since. No question.

24:12Bill Simmons:I thought we were going to do sidecocks later. Well, we can come back to them. Don't worry. One thing about Douglas, because he was also a producer. Yeah. Really good timing on when to jump in on a movie that's kind of paralleling whatever's happening in real life. Like even you go back to China Syndrome, which he's in, which was like right when everyone's afraid of nuclear war in the late 70s. Wall Street is the greed is good. Basic Instinct, big fear of AIDS, early 90s. And in the research, one of the things he really wanted to do with this movie was push the envelope sexually the other way in movies.

24:49Bill Simmons:And then Disclosure was another one with Workplace. Sure. He just over and over again had really good taste, I would say.

24:57Mallory Rubin:That's one way of putting it. Yeah. A-framing.

25:02Bill Simmons:Mallory, what was the documentary you saw with the storyboarding? Oh, yeah. There's a bonus featurette called, I believe, Blonde Poison. Yeah. Blonde Poison, the making of Basic Instinct, which is about 30-ish minutes. A good chunk of it at the end is about actually the protests of the film by LGBT groups. And I would say the first like 15 to 18 minutes before that are largely Paul Verhoeven. The director. The director talking about how he just insisted very clearly that everybody understood that they had to be naked in the movie. And that they had to follow the exact game plan for the sex scenes because he had diagrammed them very precisely.

25:46and then intercut with his commentary.

25:49Bill Simmons:I'm going to hold up one for you guys. Yeah. Paul Verhoeven's work right there. Pretty special. Pretty special. So he storyboarded the entire thing. They spent five days filming fuck of the century. Five, yeah. Because he was so concerned that they were going to make him cut stuff and make it an X rating or whatever. He wanted to be covered in every way, shape, or form. Yeah. And they filmed for five days, 10 hours a day. a 90 second sex scene if you're watching the director's cut it's a little longer yeah and also Michael Douglas

26:23Mallory Rubin:and Sharon Stone apparently were not like super close during the making of this which makes it all the more interesting close in what way? well I mean I think that there wasn't a lot of coffee corner like just chit chat about like he didn't want her to be in a movie they had gone through a bunch of people and he was concerned because he's making this movie where he's got to play a killer coke addicted cop and he wanted an A-list actress to share that burden with him and get it over the finish line and all of them looked at the script and was like, you fucking crazy? I'm not doing this. And so then they got Sharon Stone, but he was a little bit trepidatious about it.

27:00Bill Simmons:Van, I hesitate to ask you this.

27:05Bill Simmons:If you were filming with Sharon Stone for five straight days for 10 hours a day, just with small genital pads on, How would that go by like Wednesday? What do you mean? Well, see, I always wondered this. Because like... First of all, you have to respond and say the genital pad wouldn't be small. He set you up there. You have to come in and say that. But they were also not wearing genital pads. They are famously completely naked filming these. Oh, so they're naked filming these. I thought they did have... No. Also, to Mal's point, watch this featurette. Here's a quote. From the director of this movie, I wanted to really see oral sex I wanted to see how he sucks her tits I wanted to see all that

27:51Bill Simmons:thank you everybody I don't know how they do it I guess that's why they act for a living

27:59Mallory Rubin:none of us have seen this behind the scenes and I'm not entirely sure she's not like making this up because I looked for it online and I was like huh blood poison and I can't find this. I'll send it to you. Yeah, please do. Just like I sent you those storyboard pictures. Yeah. The weird thing is also there's like stories that the actors sold that Verhoeven was like, he would be like, okay, here's what we're going to do. Here's the blocking. And then they would show up day of and he would be like, site cure all my news storyboards. And he would be like, calling hot routes on Gene Triplehorn. I don't know.

28:32Mallory Rubin:I tend to believe her, but yeah.

28:35Bill Simmons:Verhoeven, RoboCop, Total Recall, Base Against Stig, Starship Troopers. Just four of the many. Just a pervy Dutch guy, I think would be the best way to describe him. Love pushing the envelope. Love to put stuff in there, kind of making fun of Americans, and we didn't realize it as we loved the movies, and didn't realize he was flipping it on us. What's his apex mountain for movies, CR?

29:00Mallory Rubin:I think in retrospect, it's Starship Troopers. Yeah, I think so. In some ways. Really? I think that has a better reputation than Basic Instinct.

29:07Bill Simmons:Interesting. What do you think, Ben? I think it's easily Basic Instinct. I think it's not even close. I think Starship Troopers has, he has this ability to elevate, I guess, what people would consider to be like trash or really accessible kind of stories. But Basic Instinct was a cultural phenomenon. It was a movie that like legitimately, my mom and them went to see it and they came back and I was like, girl, was it just stabbing with that ice pick? What's going on? Like it was a movie that you absolutely had to talk about. And really, as much as Fatal Attraction got this genre started in a management way, this kind of solidified the genre as a moneymaker and as something that could be star-making for Sharon Stone.

29:51Like, you would approach these movies differently after Basic Instinct because you know that doing one and taking the risk and taking the chances and, like, putting yourself out there on film like that could end up in making you a star, which is what this movie did for Sharon Stone. So she did all of this stuff and then it paid off. So I think this is probably his magnum opus, in my opinion. I also think it's fair to say that there weren't really characters like this until this movie. Like, these kind of powerful female

30:21Bill Simmons:in control of the relationship. Like, this... Look at Susan B. Anthony over here. This became something that a lot of movies tried to do, but I don't know who tried to do it before this movie. I can't really think of one. Can you see her?

30:36Mallory Rubin:A femme fatale like this? No, I mean, like, not this explicitly and this violently.

30:41Bill Simmons:Because, like, Body Heat did it, right? Sure. And that was 10 years earlier. And there's some other ones over the years, But I think this jump-started. Then what was interesting about this movie is all the rip-off terrible movies that tried to, you know, like the jade, color of night.

30:55Mallory Rubin:Participated in, yeah.

30:56Bill Simmons:Yeah, Sliver. I've seen them all. I know Van has them all on Blu-ray. This movie had people protesting various parts of it. Like, they couldn't even decide what to protest. Sharon Stone hosted SNL in April of 92, and six people disrupted that and actually disrupted the monologue and they had to change it. But people are pretty pissed off for a variety of reasons about this movie. Joe Esterhaus was the writer. $3 million got for the script. There was a bidding war from Carol Coat Productions, who if anyone has ever listened to the Rewatchables, probably our favorite production company. More or less, yeah.

31:35Bill Simmons:Done a lot of Stallone, Seagal, Arnold Schwarzenegger classics, based against the... Funding from... Craig's nodding happily over there.

31:41Mallory Rubin:A lot of cocaine, yeah. Yeah. A lot of cocaine. Esther Haas is basically in a competition with Shane Black, who we just talked about on Nice Guys. These two are basically trading back and forth the all-time richest screenplay deal for like five years. Right.

31:56Bill Simmons:And then Esther Haas gets mad because Verhoeven's putting all this extra stuff in the movie, ends up walking off the set. $49 million budget, made$353 million, the fourth highest grossing movie of 1992.

32:09Mallory Rubin:That would be$800 million today. This would be Project Hail Mary. today. Amaze. Amaze. Amaze. For an aggressive, R-rated,

32:20Bill Simmons:erotic theater. Well, so this is an interesting topic. Could this happen anymore? Do people want to be in a movie theater watching people fuck like this for$350 million? Like, because of Craig's generation. No. Yeah, it's Mary's generation. Don't put that on me. We were doing, I can't remember what movie we were doing. Bunch of prudes. And this was the time, you know, after Craig said that he would shoot somebody in the heart and that changed my opinion of him forever. But we were watching a movie, and Craig said, there were just titties in the movie for no reason. And I was thinking to myself, how much fucking distance is it between me and Craig?

32:58Whenever titties show up, I am happy to meet them. I agree. And Craig was uncomfortable with it. Thank you.

33:07Mallory Rubin:Well, and now, 200 movies later, I'm, like, bummed when there's no nudity in a movie. Come on. Yeah. Zodiac.

33:14Bill Simmons:Come on. Film score got an Oscar nomination. Jerry Goldsmith. Jan de Bont working the cameras. Jan de Bont? Yeah. Little Jan. Couple years for speed. Craig, 112 minutes. Plus 22 on the Horlbecks. Craig thinks every movie should be 90 minutes.

33:33Mallory Rubin:22 over par. Yeah. But you can kind of skip right to the sex scenes now. It doesn't really matter how long it is. Everything's clipified now. you know?

33:42Bill Simmons:Yeah, that second half of the movie probably could be tightened, I would say. Also, the last 25 minutes of this movie, you're like, what the fuck is happening? It turns into a whodunit. By the way, the movie would have been longer if Shooter could last. Shooter has a premature ejaculation problem. Oh, yeah. Shooter's in his... Here comes Nine Minute Van weighing in. Nine Minute Van! At minimum. Do we know... At minimum, ladies. Do we know he had a premature or was it just edited that way? Thank God we have Mallory here to answer the question. I'd have been like, hey, yo, on God, like, for real, for real, for real?

34:19Like, give me at least two extra minutes so people know how I move out here in this motherfucker. You know what I'm saying? I can't have people thinking that the credit's gonna roll and I'm gonna be popping before it's, you know what I'm saying? The Beth scene, unfortunate in many respects, including this one, very quick. But the Catherine scenes, I don't know. I think, like, we see her orgasm so many different times, including from the single most memorable part of the movie which is him going down on her maintaining eye contact the entire time and going cross-eyed like he's trying to like identify a unicorn in a magic eye painting.

34:54Mallory Rubin:I'm just like... When we do these, I never ever ever want to have sex again. Like every time we do like a Muppet version of someone going down on something, it just kills me. But then he's on top, the back scratch, then she's on top, right? So we're going through some pretty protracted sequences there. Like, he went down on her like, girl, you think I wasn't going to do this, did you? I know. He was really impressed with himself. Yeah, he was. Yeah. And then he watched his own blowjob in the mirror. Where are you guys on bedroom ceiling mirrors? What part of the podcast is this? What do you think?

35:37I always, like, see myself and, like, yo, nigga, you need to work out.

35:46Like, we had gone to the islands, and my titties lay to the side.

35:59Bill Simmons:It was one of those, during the MTV Cribs era, it was one of those when somebody had the bedroom area, you really knew some freak shit was going down. It was always a red flag. Or they wanted you to think that. Yeah, it was one or the other. It was definitely a statement. Speaking of statements, Roger Ebert.

36:18Yeah.

36:19Bill Simmons:Two stars. What a mess. Y 'all can't boot Rog, man. Yes, they can. The film is like a crossword puzzle. It keeps your interest until you solve it. and then it's just a worthless scrap with the spaces filled in I don't want to give him a fuck you Raj but I'm going to give him like a borderline fuck you Raj just a whiff I don't like that give it a two and a half

36:47Mallory Rubin:come on I'm surprised he didn't give it a two and a half like two is like this is a very well made movie even if you think it's absolute garbage I think he was just really upset by the ending mainly I think he kind of liked it but he was upset about the ice pick at the end

36:59Bill Simmons:He just knocked the star off at the end. The reason why the review surprises me is because the movie takes itself very seriously. And it's well-made, well-acted, and well-crafted. There's some really insanely well-crafted scenes here. It's not throwing anything away. So you would think that he would respect the craftsmanship a little bit more than what he did. It's a pretty critically derided film. It is. I mean, a lot of the reviews are bad. It's adored by the public, right? But it's not like everybody... It's not like Raj was on an island.

37:29Mallory Rubin:No, it's tough. Like there's like Sharon Stone talks about like thinking like I've made, like I've done it. I made double indemnity. People are going to love this. Well, wait till she hears this podcast. Then she's going to know that's true.

37:41Bill Simmons:This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. If I had to pick the greatest movie of my lifetime, I was born 1969. Man, I'm old. I think the greatest movie is The Godfather. for all the great actors that were in it that they caught at various stages of their career. Brando, Al Pacino, James Caan, Robert Duvall, Ed Coppola, who was not really on the map yet. He had this famous, famous book and they somehow pull all of it off. And the big thing is that movie just infiltrates pop culture from the day it comes out in 1972 all the way through to now in all these different ways. and that is why I think it's the greatest movie of my lifetime.

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39:44Bill Simmons:If you get stuck, just add expert assist, Get unlimited help from a credentialed U.S.-based tax expert. Visit TaxAct.com to learn more. Well, so for the rewatchables, if you haven't heard any of the pods we've done, we do categories to break down the movie. First category is most rewatchable scene.

40:15Bill Simmons:we'll give you some runner-up nominees

40:21Bill Simmons:incredible opening murder scene right into the police showing up and dialogue that goes there's cum stains all over the sheets so let's talk about it now I would love to Yeah. Johnny Boz just that night, no maid. No, there is a maid. This is part of what... I have this in unanswerable questions.

40:44Mallory Rubin:She's a rather rotund maid. They even pointed out. Yeah, she's 54 and 240, and so they say she couldn't be the murderer, which is pretty fucked up, honestly. Not the only fucked up thing in the movie, but...

40:53Bill Simmons:Because they blue light this, and it looks like a Sunday. It looks like... Is everyone tracking Artemis right now, the NASA photos? Boz's sheets under the blacklight look like the face of the moon that NASA is currently showing us. Splattered craters everywhere.

41:12Mallory Rubin:So he either is Mount Vesuvius. Right. One night only. Or... He's never washing his sheets. His bedroom is a no-go zone for the maid. And those sheets have not been changed in weeks. Yes. I think it's that.

41:26Bill Simmons:Do you have a theory? I bet you do. And the sheets with the no maid or just... Is it one night? There's a gentleman by the name of Peter North who throughout the course of his career was able to set records. And if you guys don't know who he is, you'll be amazed. And so when I think of this movie, I think about talent, not necessarily about, like, function. So it wasn't the fact that he was doing it a lot. It was like when he was doing it, talking about fucking firehose. So my question is, if you're getting stabbed to death with an ice pick as you're coming, is that like a triple cum shot? Sorry to be crude, but that's...

42:08Bill Simmons:If the maid's not coming, that has to be the only other explanation. I just don't think the human body contains that much ejaculate at one period of time, whether or not you're... Wait, though. Have Sharon Stone thrusting on top of you and you're about to be stabbed 31 times with an ice pick.

42:22Mallory Rubin:Not to get too graphic here, but like, isn't... I think it's fine. Go ahead. Isn't Johnny Boz inside Catherine Trammell? Yes, yes. Why is there semen everywhere? I think the idea also is they have done it multiple times that night. That this is like, it's Johnny Boz's fuck of the century. That's right. Cocaine on the penis. Yes.

42:44Bill Simmons:Anyone second guessing their decision to come tonight? We're having a great time. I think you guys knew what you were coming for. The woman in the opening scene, by the way, was Sharon Stone. It didn't seem like it. Because they have her hair covered, but it is her and Verhoeven. It almost seems like she's in a wig. They put her in a blonde wig, I think, to make you think it could be triple orange. Somebody else, yeah. Yeah. There's some pretty clear indicators. CR, would you want to go this way? If, like, you could pick 10 different ways to die with the Johnny Boz being the top three? I would be so thrilled to find out

43:16Mallory Rubin:what the other ones would be that would top three. Yeah. Okay. This is like the Tyrion Lannister. You know how he's always saying he wants to go with a belly full of wine and some lips around his cock? Like, it's the Johnny Boz.

43:29Bill Simmons:Another quote from this scene, he got off before he got off. Yeah. That's where you know you're in the right hands. Next scene, the first visit to Sharon Stone's house. Incredible. Catherine Trammell. We get a great, great Bay Area drive. Amazing house. Gorgeous. Fantastic. I'm going to give this the Den of Thieves, Benny Hanna Award, scene-stealing location, CR, unless you want to jump me.

43:52Mallory Rubin:This is the nightclub.

43:54Bill Simmons:Really nice. Good deck. Good deck. Great deck. And great dick. Great dick. Great dick. Yeah. Insane dick. Great landscaping. Yeah. Girthy dick. It is impressive landscaping. Catherine Trammell comes in throwing 120 miles an hour right away. I wasn't dating him. I was fucking him. Man. What are you, a pro? I'm an amateur. I wasn't in the mood last night. Are you sorry he's dead? Yeah, I like fucking him. Incredible. She's just throwing him off left and right. Bill talking his way. Doesn't seem that upset, Mal. Well, she's, that's part of the appeal of Catherine as a character is she is so utterly in command and assured.

44:35And there's something disarming and terrifying about it, but also something so appealing. So like the whole movie, the, the thriller, the, the erotic thriller aspect is a cat and mouse chase where like the mouse wants to be caught so that he can fuck Catherine. Right. And you have to understand that like immediately, which you do.

44:53Bill Simmons:then we have another rewatchable scene the second house visit to the car ride which includes her changing that's how we know she's not wearing underwear they're in the car I don't smoke, yes you do I quit, congratulations all of a sudden she has cigarettes what's your new book about? a detective, he falls for the wrong women what happens? he kills her Douglas is like, I'm fucking in I am all the way in good shot of what part of San Francisco are we in there

45:28Mallory Rubin:well they were driving up to Stinson but the house in real life was in Carmel but they're driving up to Stinson Beach which shouts out Scott and Natalia got married in Stinson Beach they're here somewhere there they are

45:39Bill Simmons:next scene is the police room scene one of I think the most famous scenes of the 90s and we also have Newman from Seinfeld than Eddie Harris from Major League in there. We sure do.

45:51Mallory Rubin:The factoid, which I don't know if it's true, that Spielberg hired him off of this is unreal. That was Steven Spielberg's takeaway from this scene. For Jurassic Park, I got that guy.

46:08Bill Simmons:What are you going to do? Arrest me for smoking? Good line. Johnny liked to use his hands too much. I like hands and fingers. Another quote. Have you ever fucked on cocaine, Nick? It's nice. Iconic. It's not how she says it.

46:28Mallory Rubin:It'd be funny if she did. She was like, it's nice. She just turns into Borat for a second. Yeah, it did sound like that. Borat is a good stick. My wife. My wife. It's nice. He's dead.

46:44Bill Simmons:And then we get the leg cross, which became... Maybe Highly controversial The most famous Moment of the 90s In a movie I'm trying to think What's bigger

46:56Mallory Rubin:Migs From Silence of the Lambs Is that late 80s

47:00Bill Simmons:Biggest holy shit moment Yeah I was like I remember my dad Rest in peace dad Dad was like

47:09Boy Go back a couple of seconds Nah I honestly think And when I watched it I caught it. I've never looked. This is one of the most well-written scenes of the 90s. So when you think about the movie, right? The movie is about basic... You guys think I'm about to be freaky. I'm about to be like, okay, let me cook for a second. The movie Basic Instinct, it's about primal urges, right? Things that you cannot control. But the movie only works if you understand how dangerous Catherine is and how much he can't resist her. So that scene is in conflict because that scene has to establish how dangerous she is, but it also can't betray the fact that we see how dangerous she is, all of these police officers see how dangerous she is, and he still has to be primarily drawn to her.

48:10So she has to go there and be smarter than everybody in the room.

48:13Bill Simmons:By the way, so does the audience. Exactly, right? Exactly, for us as well. She has to go there and be smarter than everybody in the room. But if she is smarter than everybody in the room, it breaks the deal with the audience because then you go, well, we know that she's the murderer. We know that she's gaming them. Why would he still want her? Then she lets that thang out. Yeah. And let me tell you something right now. to all the ladies in the audience, if you want to end the argument or the speculation, let that thing out. If you let that thing out, you win. All right? Stop playing the game. I want to play MLB.

48:53Let that thing out. You're off the game. Okay? And so when that happens, that re-injects this primal urge into the scene, and it completely wipes his mind and our mind and everybody else, he got to go get that thing. Yeah.

49:10Bill Simmons:And Newman violated some HR laws, I think. Newman's like... Well, I was going to hit this in unanswerable questions, but he's not in the movie after that. It's like, did seeing Karen's vagina kill him?

49:27Mallory Rubin:Yeah, he had a fucking heart attack. Did the assistant DA drop fucking dead in the bathroom stall cranking one out 10 minutes after that? Everyone else is looking at the lie detector and is like, you can beat the machine. No, you can't beat the machine. And Newman is dropping dead after having seen Catherine flash it. So he's not in the director's cut. No. He makes an early impression and that's it. I think Van's point is really important because there are five dudes in that interrogation for no reason other than that every machine. They're all wrapped, right? And so the fact that the trick of that, in addition to the very obvious one, is that she is like in command and they're in her power even though she is so clearly should be the one who's like what is happening here even the way that scene is lit the way it's staged like that doesn't look like an interrogation room at all right it looks like she's like on display at a

50:17Bill Simmons:gallery so there was controversy about that scene yes that we should mention she said it was filmed without her knowledge and it turned into a he said she said that i forget what year in her memoir

50:29Mallory Rubin:Sharon Stone says that they asked her to take her underwear off because it was affecting the lighting. Which, I mean... Yeah. And then she saw a cut, and her and her lawyer, Marty Singer, were going to basically stop the movie from coming out. They were going to... And then she just... But then she was like, you know what? Like, I signed up for it. That is me. And she decided to do it, but not without reservations.

50:55Bill Simmons:And then it wasn't in the script either. and Verhoeven, pervy Dutch guy, remembered something similar happening when he was in college and decided to weave it in. Anyway. Cool college story. Record scratch. Quick

51:12Mallory Rubin:one. I was in college and she took that thing out. And I stopped playing MLB the show. I stopped playing FIFA. And that is the end of the argument.

51:22Bill Simmons:Thing out. Vans down with the Dutch. The car chase is really good Just wanted to mention that Really good She kind of does some In the car chase Come on shooter She was in a Porsche Or something like that A Lotus A Lotus Nick stops by Catherine's place And she uses the ice pick And does the How much coke should you do Nick You're going to make A terrific character She's making out With rocks in front of him That seems good Yeah The Catherine And all the papers are there Right so he starts to realize In that sequence Like how much she knows About him How she's studying him Yeah. Yeah. And then she stops by Nick's place.

51:58Bill Simmons:She does the ice pick thing for him. Shooter. Now he's smoking cigs. You know the wheels are coming off. He's drinking. He's ordering doubles at the bar. He's smoking. And now we're going to my favorite scene. Nick goes to the nightclub. We get the song we played earlier, Blue, by, what was that band? Latour? Latour. Latour? Yeah. Nick's the oldest guy in the club by, I'm going to say, 16 years. and he's wearing a v-neck shirt that his aunt gave him for Christmas in 1985. It's crazy. He's like, I'll wear this. I haven't worn this yet. And goes into the bathroom, which is... Has anyone ever been in a bathroom like this?

52:40Bill Simmons:There's 50 people in the bathroom. They're all doing cocaine. They're playing, like, cards. I don't know. What bathroom is this? Most of the characters on Industry. We were talking about this last night.

52:51Mallory Rubin:This is like a regular third episode of a season of Industry. to be.

52:55Bill Simmons:I don't know. Van is fucking quiet right now. I'll just tell you. So, Van, you... What happened? Okay. Roxy is throwing, I think, 130 miles an hour in this scene. The catcher's mitt actually breaks. She breaks the mitt. And Douglas is... Again, I'll put this against Jim Carrey in Dumb and Dumber. I'll put this against Mike Byers in So I Married and Axe Murderer. Name a funny movie. Nothing's funnier than Douglas in this scene. trying to be sexy, I'm not too old to be here, dance guy.

53:32Mallory Rubin:It's really special. The only thing that could have been funnier is if he danced. Yeah. But he makes the choice to be like, what would this guy do at this club seeing all this shit? This is like every primal instinct coming out. And he's just like, I would just stand there.

53:47Bill Simmons:So you're watching and you're like, this has to be the unintentionally funniest thing that's going to happen with Michael Douglas in this movie. Think again. Because we go to the sex scene where he also gets up after and wins the William Peterson, honestly, dude, I'm not sure we needed to see your balls award. Does it twice. Does the walk. Talks to Roxy. Does the, let me ask you something, Roxy, man to man. Then does the pivot and does another walk. He's like, did you see my balls through my butt crack? Yeah, here they are again. He's just feeling it. And the side dick before that. So this is what happens when you've made 10 straight years of$100 million movies.

54:30Bill Simmons:You just start walking around in the bathroom. This is just a tour de force. Anything to add, Mal, before we move on? I think this is a very important scene. We've talked about the side dick, the oral sex face, watching the blowjob in the mirror. I think the fact that in terms of just actually the clues, not that you're really thinking about the clues, but it is like beat for beat parallel to what we saw in the boss scene. So you're very titillated by what you're seeing, but you're like, is he going to get stabbed by an ice pick? Right. And like even the fold of the bedding. Yeah. The headboard has like the slats so that she can tie them up, breaks out the Hermes or Hermes as it is called in this film, astonishing stuff, scarf out and ties them up.

55:16It's just start to finish pretty incredible. the tearing of the back flesh i think that these are some of the most guttural orgasm sounds ever committed to the public record on film and you know when i was younger watching this for the first time i was like it reminds me of how i think people today read like fourth wing or a court of thorns and roses and like i'm taking notes okay this is how you could do something to like lead to a 27 page chapter about going down on your girlfriend on a throne got it okay like people were watching this, studying it, trying to learn, not you.

55:48Mallory Rubin:But in those books, it's like, the girlfriend is also, like, a dragon fairy, right? Yeah, well, there are fairies in Court of Thorns and Roads, and I can tell you've read them. Dragon Riders in Fourth Wing. And then you watch this now as, like, a middle-aged person, and, like, the angling of the back, I'm like, is she about to, like, turn into Nagini? Like, I just worry about everybody's pain. I see them looking into the mirror up top. I'm like, If I had that now, I would just say, are my hips properly aligned so that I'm not going to wake up with lower back pain? It's a very different relationship as you age.

56:24Mallory Rubin:It's an amazing athletic performance. It is. It is. It is.

56:33Bill Simmons:Yeah, I don't know what his dick looks like the next day, but it's not going straight. There's definitely a couple turns. For sure. I have two more scenes. Nick goes to see Catherine the next day, and she kind of deflates the balloon a little bit. Yeah. Roxy didn't know what she was in for. Oh, she's seen me fuck other guys. Incredible. Just, like, sticking it to him. I told her I thought it was the fuck of the century. I thought it was a good beginning. Say, Nick came in that bitch like he was the man. Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was the fuck of the century. Is he still wearing the sweater, or did he change?

57:09Mallory Rubin:I can't remember if he wears the sweater. Yeah, he has the bomber. All of a sudden, he's become Danny Zuko. like he went from being like a regular cop to now he's the coolest motherfucker in the world she's like yo dawg pump the brakes i used to fuck a boxer like you know what i mean he's like get the fuck out of here uh and then just the ending with the twist where you think she's gonna kill

57:32Bill Simmons:him i think those are all the rewatchable scenes what do you got cr what's your most rewatchable

57:37Mallory Rubin:nightclub 100 out of 100 i mean the sex scene's cool but like the nightclub has so much going on I love that the drug dealer gets to dance with them, that he's like, yeah, you know, like, here's some coke. Can I join? Hey, that black guy is in every 90s movie. For some reason, they got a nigga with a flat top and a vest, no shirt, who knows all the choreography to everything. That guy comes back. Glenn Plummer plays that guy in Showgirls. He comes back, he's dancing with a random white girl. He's...

58:14i'm telling you that guy i never saw him in baton rouge

58:19Bill Simmons:so we all have the nightclub scene or what do you have now i think it's fuck of the century i've across the course of my life diagram that like i'm scoring a baseball game yeah like that's it's got to be that so we're not gonna bring it up nobody's picking the interrogation scene wow the interrogation mine's interrogation scene but like also but like the triple horn scene right Which is obviously a very... I mean, come on, man. It's a controversial scene. It's problematic. Yeah, it's a very problematic scene. But he runs... That's the first time we really see them together. Yeah. And it's like very...

58:53It shows that legitimately, the moment that he meets Catherine, his character changes immediately. He becomes, once again, more primal, more driven by whatever this thing is in his body that he can't control.

59:06Bill Simmons:What's the most 1992 thing about this movie? What do you have, CR? Beth's got Bart Simpson on the keychain. Yeah. Mistaken for a gun at the end. And it gets her fucking killed. For it all. You have one, Ben? Yeah. So in this movie, only the attractive people have sex. So there are a bunch of people in the movie, but only the people that look good having sex. If they made this movie right now, there'd be a random scene of Hoss hitting something from the back. You know what I'm saying? But in this movie, like, the desire of people, desire of people that have sex, and everybody else is a bunch of fucking pastrami-eating cops.

59:49They get to go, oh, you fucked that last night shooter? We like, like... But in this now, we have democratized sex scenes. So Hoss would have got to get down with... Hoss and Roxy would have had their little situation if it was happening today.

1:00:02Mallory Rubin:This is an amazing point because to the guys on the force, Nick is Austin Butler. Like, they're so fucking gross. They're like, they're even happy when they're like, Nick is breaking every law, but goddamn, man.

1:00:17Bill Simmons:I have a couple of 1992 things. Quitting cocaine for three months. Yeah, yes.

1:00:30Bill Simmons:those green police computer screens really bring me back to the 90s when you're just trying to read your i honestly you'd go blind if you looked at those things for too long but some of the

1:00:39Mallory Rubin:prompts they're writing it are kind of chat gpt where they're like yeah what about 1967 and it's like, oh, okay.

1:00:48Bill Simmons:Calling a condom a rubber?

1:00:50Mallory Rubin:Sure.

1:00:52Bill Simmons:It felt very 90s to me. Did we say rubber in the same way anymore? I was 12. And then Sharon Stone hosted the April 1992 Saturday Night Live to promote this movie with musical guest Pearl Jam. Their first SNL performance. Look at that. And they look like they're like 22 years old. So there you go. What's age the best? All the San Francisco location stuff. By the way, I was warned by multiple people not to say San Fran. Apparently it's an annoying habit that the San Francisco people don't like. So do you have a nickname for San Francisco or no? Frisco. SF? What do you say, Craig? SF, probably.

1:01:46Bill Simmons:So when someone says San Fran, you're just like, fuck this person. So I fucking said it. And by the way, fuck you guys. I said it and I Logan's right there. I was trying to like shout out, everybody give it up for Logan Murdoch. Oh, yeah. But like I said it when I was trying to fucking compliment y 'all, City. Nobody told me that shit. I didn't get the email. So Frisco, the city, all of that shit, shout out to y 'all. I like SF. We mentioned this earlier for What Stage is Best. One of the great cigarette smoking movies ever made, CR. Of course. Yeah. Who would you give if we could only hand out one Sean Penn, I brought my own pack award for excellence in non-screen I mean, smoking.

1:02:24Bill Simmons:Would you go Stone or Douglas?

1:02:26Mallory Rubin:Douglas, because you can see that the cigarette is the highway to hell for him. Oh, interesting. I feel like it's the cigarette that unlocks everything.

1:02:35Bill Simmons:I have more of what saves the best, but what do you got, Mal? Well, I'm shocked you didn't say the first shot of Catherine on the deck that we spent so much time talking about. It's a good flick. Yeah, it's a good smoke. Draws your attention to the jagged rocks, the danger of the person and the setting, all of it. Let's see, the score you already mentioned is quite good. the dong, the nudity, the explicit sex Sharon Stone, we've talked about all of it I think the way props are used like objects, you mentioned the key ring obviously the ice picks the hand ties, the ceiling mirrors the matching Picassos, there are these like little aspects of every setting that really become central drivers of the plot in a nice way I got one men fucking with women who will eventually destroy them so

1:03:21this movie should be required viewing for anyone who's thinking about Dana Kardashian. Timmy. Oh, sure. Yeah. I know it seems good now, brother. Yeah. But I was there for nine years. It's not going to work out.

1:03:37Bill Simmons:I had Johnny Baz's apartment which has a Picasso. Yeah. And Catherine has a Picasso. And also no maid service. Yeah. I really like Michael Douglas. I have down his hesitation. I can't believe this broad laugh that he does where he's just like... Drinking a paper cup of water. Yeah, yeah. It's like his little weird flirty thing. Something Nick Catherine exchanges. Fuck like minx, raise rugrats, live happily ever after. There's just good screenwriting stuff in this. And then, Mal, I can't believe you didn't mention this. Well, she got that Magna Cut and Lottie pussy on her. That doesn't fry up her brain.

1:04:18Yeah.

1:04:19Bill Simmons:Just some of the George Zunza. He plays Gus. Incredible. Gus, like, you know he's dead the moment you see him.

1:04:26Mallory Rubin:You're like, this guy's overweight.

1:04:28Bill Simmons:He's a buddy. He's going to drink too much. He'll make it. You do the pool. He's going to be 18 minutes left till he'll be dead. You know what's happening. Pre-tech San Francisco. Yeah. I would also put in there. San Francisco. I used to come here a lot in the 90s because some of my best high school college friends lived here. And San Francisco was fucking awesome in the 90s. And it was a great place for young people. It was really cool. And obviously has gone through a lot of transformations over the years. But just seeing it, don't make a face, man. I'm saying you're buying into the propaganda.

1:05:04The fucking shit is beautiful. I've seen that fucking building. Gorgeous city. What's that pointy building? What's it called? The pointy one from Star Trek. Do y 'all know the name of the pointy one? I've seen that bitch. trans-American, whatever the fuck. I saw that, I was like, yo, man, this shit is crazy.

1:05:24Bill Simmons:Are we done with What's Stage the Best?

1:05:25Mallory Rubin:Can we move on? I had one thing, which was, for me, it took a bunch of viewings to notice this, is there is a brief moment when Douglas goes to Beth's house, he's like, come in, and she's like, oh, my lock is broken. And it's like, basically, the only detail you get that Catherine has set Beth up this entire time and is like placing articles in her house and shit. Gotta put that revolver behind the bookcase. Change her locks maybe but like it's a great otherwise the whole movie almost falls apart at the end

1:05:58Bill Simmons:which it kind of does anyway. Did you have another great shot Gordo for best shot?

1:06:04Mallory Rubin:There's a bunch of really cool shit in here. Yon Debon's really good but the push in on Catherine saying I'd have to be pretty stupid to write a book about killing and then kill him the same way I described in my book. And she's saying it to the audience where it's like almost breaking the fourth wall.

1:06:20Bill Simmons:We don't get to give this out a lot. The Amanda Dobbins Award for Best Piece of Real Estate. Catherine's house. Yes. So the exterior is in Stinson Beach and then the interior stuff was in Carmel by the Sea, which is not that close to her. About 35 mil right now for this one. Great bay window, great deck, easy access to a completely scary beach. She's just doing beautiful. You just feel like you can die as you're going on a walk. CR you have a flex category what do you got?

1:06:49Mallory Rubin:Yeah I mean you guys tell me I feel like the Ed Norton reverse dunk award did this movie need a random sports scene there's a little bit of Niners like at the end like at the diner and stuff but can we not get George Seifert in this movie somehow? Because you were still cooking back then What do you mean

1:07:09Bill Simmons:like Nick goes to like a Niners practice and has like young Montana thoughts?

1:07:13Mallory Rubin:Like Gus has lost a ton of money

1:07:15Bill Simmons:on the Niners or something. Yeah. Oh, I got one. Karen used to fuck somebody on the Niners. Maybe Karen. Catherine. I'm drunk. Catherine used to, like, white woman, Karen, whatever. So she used to fuck somebody on the Niners, so they go to interview him. And it's Jerry Rice.

1:07:35Mallory Rubin:And the name of her new novel is Rice. Right. Yeah.

1:07:40Bill Simmons:Mallory, you don't get a flex because you have your own award. The Mallory Rubin Award for Did This Movie you need a better sex scene oh shit okay well like a third of the runtime is sex scenes basically right we have the opening boss scene we have nick i'll incorporate some just nudity that's very central as well nick watching katherine change in the mirror for the first time the nick beth rape scene uh we could make that better by not having it or not doing it that way i'd say um nick watching katherine change again through the large beautiful picture windows that you were just uh commenting on with the real estate, right?

1:08:15And reasonable to assume that she knows he's there, so put a pin in that. I'll be coming back to that in a second. We've got the fuck of the century. The fireplace chase scene. So this, we enter a different point in the movie now where we're, like, not seeing the sex.

1:08:28Bill Simmons:Right. They've worn us out. Make love to me, and then we cut and they're cuddling in front of the fire. It's like, this is not the movie that I signed up to watch. Why am I not seeing every second of that? And it ends up being very relevant because that's when she's planting the Lisa nuggets about Beth in this vulnerable moment. Then we get Catherine at Nick's apartment, some nudity. And then again, we don't see the sex scene. Insane. And then we cut to them cuddling in the window nook. So your take is that this movie

1:08:53Mallory Rubin:didn't have enough sex? I think that there are a couple opportunities in the established sequence of the film to just show us all of the sex again, which I would have supported. And then, of course, the final sex scene, which once again mirrors the Boz beats, spine-bending maneuvers, and then the forward thrust, and then like, okay, she didn't kill him. So here are my suggestions. Give us the full sex scenes in the ones we cut away from, the Make Love to Me, Fireplace, Chase, and the Window Nook. But I think for, like, the fourth or fifth rewatchables in a row, so this is something I'm going to reflect on later, I would like to suggest that the movie include a masturbation scene because it actually doesn't make sense that that's missing, and I think when Nick follows...

1:09:36Nick has calluses. Well, yeah. I'm like, how does Nick's dick have skin on it if his hand has that many calluses on it. Like, use some lotion, my guy. Come on. But I'm talking about Catherine, naturally. He follows her home. Someone said yes. Somebody said yes. A fellow visionary. A fellow visionary. He follows her home. And she just immediately gets undressed. Drapes are open. Giant window. She definitely knows he's there because he is the worst tail in the history of tails. Yeah, he really is. He's terrible. At no point in the movie does he follow somebody and they don't know that he's behind them.

1:10:13So she knows he's there and purposefully she gets undressed in front of the window, leaves the lights on and then as she walks away, turn the lights off, which I think is confirmation that she knows he's watching. There's a couch right there. Go for it. Right?

1:10:27Bill Simmons:So you throw out some solo action. Yes. And then we mix in a Newman scene as well. Oh, Newman solo action. Let's see it.

1:10:36Mallory Rubin:Yes. Let's see it. A real toss up. Let's either see Newman jack off for Catherine Masturbate. I'm going... We're splendid on her couch. I'm going Wayne Knight. Honestly, Wayne Knight? Yeah, I've never seen anything like that before. Yeah. Oh, my God. Oh, God.

1:10:52Bill Simmons:Holy mackerel. We don't get to give this award out. Craig, you were here when this award was created. The Steven Seagal Hard to Kill Award for Did This Movie Need a Better Intimacy Coordinator? Clearly yes. So Paul Verhoeven

1:11:06Mallory Rubin:is the intimacy coordinator. Yeah, I'm going to say yes on this. Yeah, I'm going to say yeah. I'll give this a yes.

1:11:12Bill Simmons:Yeah, okay. Butch's girlfriend award for a weak link of the film.

1:11:16Mallory Rubin:I got this one, and it really jumped out at me. What the fuck is Hazel Dobkins doing in this movie? Oh, this is mine too. Unless you subscribe to the online theory that she is the mastermind of this entire film. Oh. Oh, what do you think of that, man? And that's why Catherine seems so deferential towards her, and she's often at the house when Nick arrives as Hazel's in the background. Yeah. What message boards are you on? r slash basic instinct. And no, but it's like, it's either one or the other. She's either like, they kind of wrote her into the movie and kept her like appearing throughout it, or she is the Joker.

1:11:53Bill Simmons:What do you think of that, Van? What do you mean? Hazel Dobbins being the Joker. I don't know. Like, you know, I'm thinking about a lot of stuff in this movie. I'm processing as we're talking. Like when we were talking about the sex scenes and Hazel, I looked at the sex scenes. I really thought that this was the way white people had sex back in the day. Because I look at her now and all of her riding skills, they're completely obsolete now. We have new technologies. She wasn't making no circles. She was just going crazy. And then like when you see showgirls, it's the same thing. When you watch Elizabeth Berklin's showgirls, she's in the pool and she's actually like she's on a bucking bronco.

1:12:33I got a fucking spasm and shit like that. But like, anyway.

1:12:43I had Hazel questions as well because I think it's one of the more puzzling aspects of the plot I hadn't considered, I didn't know this was a theory I hadn't considered the Joker thing but I think another bit of evidence to support this theory is that Hazel canonically killed her husband and three children She is a mass murderer, a child slayer and it is established on the aforementioned computer that she was in jail for nine years for that.

1:13:09Mallory Rubin:Roxy killed her brothers and is out after six. That's also insane. She slit their throats with a razor. And she's like, I've been in a couple years. I'm good.

1:13:18Bill Simmons:I have that in picking nets. It seemed like I would say a short prison sentence for wiping out your family. It's crazy. Hold on, hold on. This is the two Americans thing. That tracks kill her whole family. She gets out nine years. I know niggas in jail 55 years for weed. That's for real. Feel guilty. isn't the weak link of the movie the DNA evidence thing though? Like it's actually like, I agree that we just want to watch the movie and have fun, but it is actually disqualifying, borderline disqualifying. Like DNA evidence had been in practice since the eighties. This movie is set in 92. There's just absolutely no reason.

1:13:52Here's the thing. Every single murder involves every bodily fluid that you could possibly excrete. How are they not finding the killer?

1:14:01Bill Simmons:Can I counter this? Please. because I had this in what stage is the worst not weakest link okay just because 10 years later the DNA she's done in 5 minutes but if you remember the OJ trial in 95 people still we barely knew what DNA evidence was and people like didn't even really believe it well because he didn't do it anyway so so

1:14:26but no but the DNA is kind of so you're going to the sun like the DNA is kind of rendered defunct by the fact that she admits that she had sex with the guy. She says that she had sex with him, and she says over and over again that they had sex. So her being connected to him is not necessarily... But the fingerprints on the ice pack,

1:14:46Bill Simmons:there's stuff that they would... She's not covered in blood. Her clothing doesn't have a trace of the blood of her slain victims. She's often freshly showered when he comes over. I don't think that's how it works. I'm just saying. If you commit a murder one day, As a friend and person who loves you, don't just shower and think you're going to get away with it. You need to clean up more fully. That's so funny getting a call from CR like 2.30. Van. I took a shower. I'm fine. Come downtown.

1:15:11Mallory Rubin:I did something I wasn't supposed to do, man. Bring a bar of Irish spring.

1:15:19Mallory Rubin:That should get me out of this. I would help you. This is, so what's the worst for me? I don't know.

1:15:25Bill Simmons:Wait, I got to do my weak link. Oh, you got to do your weak link. By the way, Van, I think you'd be one of my three calls. I don't know where you rank. Hey, bro. Whose car are we taking? You call me. I'm with you.

1:15:42Bill Simmons:So I had a less auspicious week link. So Nick, Michael Douglas' character, attacks Nielsen, the internal affairs guys that he gave up the files, right? He's in front of like 30 cops. Yes. Has to be restrained. He's like ready to fight him. Six hours later, the guy shot in the head. And they're like, hey, shooter, we're going to need your gun. He's not in jail? I'm so glad you brought this up. At that point, he's locked up, right?

1:16:08Mallory Rubin:This is what I don't think you caught in that scene where he goes into Nielsen's office. When he goes into Marty's office and he starts, like, jumping on him, Marty's boss pulls a gun. He puts it to his head. What the shit is happening? It's just a guy. There are no rules in the SFPD. Crazy. The SFPD is going nuts. They take the gun, put it in. Hey, do something to him. I'll blow your fucking head off. That's internal affairs. It's insane. There's no fucking laws, man.

1:16:43Bill Simmons:What a movie.

1:16:44Mallory Rubin:All right, what's age the worst? What'd you have, Sierra? Well, so what's age the worst is the fact that we know too much. We would be talking about DNA evidence. After David Simon, we know way too much about law enforcement stories. telling back then they were like yeah three months ago this narc killed two tourists while he was high on coke now fucks his therapist let's promote him to homicide detective and have him drive the suspect who the two of them have been making fuck me eyes at each other throughout this completely inappropriate interrogation to know each other yeah my idea is nick find out where katherine and then he abandons his responsibilities all together.

1:17:27Mallory Rubin:It's fucking amazing. Watching it at the time, I was like, this is incredible. Watching it now, you're like, I think there would probably be some reviews.

1:17:35Bill Simmons:We mentioned the first sex scene is, I got to say, problematic now, but in 1992, wasn't not problematic. Like, it was a big thing when it happened with him and Gene Triplehorn. It's just a weird choice. I don't really get it. This episode is brought to you by Vioric. look, I'm not a big, let's hype up workout clothes guy, but Viore, I got to say, total game changer. Been wearing a lot. If you see me power walking around Los Angeles, probably going to see me wearing some Viore. Sunday performance joggers that they have, it's made with four-way performance stretch fabric. One of the most comfortable things you own.

1:18:09Bill Simmons:You will wear them everywhere, I promise. All you have to do is go to viore.com slash Simmons and you get 20 % off your first purchase with Viore. V-U-O-R-I.com slash Simmons. Enjoy free shipping on all U.S. orders over$75, plus free returns. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. This episode is brought to you by The Home Depot. Spring is starting, so it's time to wake up your yard. And at The Home Depot, they've got everything you need to do it with low prices guaranteed. Mowing your lawn is a dream with top brand outdoor power tools like the Ryobi 40-volt mower with up to 50 minutes of runtime.

1:18:49Bill Simmons:You can add a pop of color with spring blooms and fresh plants and refresh your garden beds with earth grow mulch, five bags for just$10. Start your spring with low prices now through April 1st. Available at the Home Depot. Exclusions apply. See homedepot.com slash price match for details. So this really bugs me. This is, could be a nitpick, but it's really what Sage's aware. So they put together that Gene Triplehorn also went to college with Sharon Stone's character. And they put the photo ID. And she's got a blonde wig and the photo ID, but it's the exact same photo as her now. And it was like, this movie cost$59 million?

1:19:32Bill Simmons:And they were just like, hey, what are we going to do with the photo? And they just like photoshopped. I just don't understand it. It's such an unforced error. Great one. What else? Do you have any What's Age of Worse band? No, it was all about the way Chan Stone was riding dick. Did you have any more, Mal? I think that the, we've alluded to this, but like the, beyond just the general kind of shoddy work from the SFPD, the solving of the murder, they're like, that jacket fit.

1:20:03Mallory Rubin:Yeah. So it was back. She's got a bunch of articles in her drawer. The jacket that says where she works on the back of it, which is definitely a choice you'd make as a murderer, fit. So it's her. I mean, that's just absolutely ludicrous.

1:20:16Bill Simmons:I had that in Nipix, but the same thing. They go to Bess's kitchen drawer. They open up. There's all this scrapbook stuff. Yeah. And the guy goes, well, I guess that's it. Yeah, Walker's like, so. Yeah. Yeah. Cody, call it in. Guilty. Cereal killers always keep a full binder of chronologically ordered incriminating evidence in their kitchen drawer. Always. Crazy. Always. The speed of the elevator in that sequence, also ridiculous. And the fact that Nick has just had this very dramatic moment where he's like looking at the two covers. Oh, which will they go with? And he sees the paragraph about the detective's partner being found in the elevator.

1:20:56And then Gus shows up and is like, bud, I got a call from Catherine's freshman year roommate. Let's go. And Nick's like, sounds good. That all seems credible. Let's do it. And then he's like, I'm just going to go inside a few floors up the elevator that you just read about. And Nick's like, cool, good luck.

1:21:14Bill Simmons:He just read the page on the printer. And then he's killed shortly thereafter in the exact scenario that was described in the pages he just read. Nick, terrible. No one's like Beth doesn't have blood on her hands at the end. I had a... Crazy. The last 40 minutes is a what's age the worst. They kind of yada yada some of this stuff. I love this movie. That's crazy. If you stab someone with an ice pick that many times in the jugular in an elevator, you have some blood on your hands. Yeah. And then I had the rip-off erotic thrillers that came after this that were all pretty bad. I think the worst ones probably Call Her Night, especially because Bruce Willis' pool penis on a 70-foot screen.

1:21:54Bill Simmons:Wasn't really looking for that in 1995. Well, change their own. I'm really excited for this next category. The Ruffalo Hannah Rubinick Partridge Overacting Award obviously goes to Michael Douglas, who has, he does this thing where he says the line but then yells the last two words so it's like who has access to my goddamn miles what is this some kind of joke this was his angry mech with the whistle ride me man yeah i'll get your fucking teeth in i don't i just love it all right vans flex so you have to do howard van nathan howard van lathe and get out of this one which is an award we have sometimes.

1:22:37Mallory Rubin:So as Beth or as Nick?

1:22:39Bill Simmons:I think you could be any of the three characters here. How would Van get out of this one? Pick a character and go. I'm getting out of what, though? I don't know. How would Van Lathan get out of this? All right, you're Beth. How about you're Beth? So I'm Beth. I'm going to be Nick, right? Okay, be Nick. So I'm Nick, and they're asking me why I'm hanging around Catherine. Well, the reality is this. You say I don't read enough. The woman's an author, okay? You say I play the game too much. You say that I'm too obsessed with the dog. You say I'm on the computer too much. This woman's an author. She's written books.

1:23:13These books are very well regarded. And what I'm trying to do is deepen my understanding of literature. Now, here's the deal. If this was a male writer, you wouldn't have any problem with it. That's right. It's a female writer. So while you're looking at me, what I think you actually need to look at is the mirror. Because the reality is this is a woman. so you feel threatened. I don't feel threatened around women because I empower women. I believe in female writers. I believe in female creators. And this is a female creator. I believe in her. So I'm gonna keep hanging around her. You deal with your things.

1:23:49Talk to Dr. Crossman on Thursday.

1:23:56Bill Simmons:Nails it every time. Gaslight. The CR... The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford Hottest Take Award.

1:24:06Mallory Rubin:So I was working on something. I told you earlier, I was like, I have a Hottest Take, but I haven't landed the plane yet. I think the plane's still circling the airport. Is this movie a perverted man's version of Gilligan's Island where the professor is caught in between the psychosexual dealings of Ginger and Marianne? Or the CR is pandering to the audience the word for safest home field take. San Francisco is the best movie city. Wow.

1:24:36Bill Simmons:The suck-up take. I like it. Now, do you have one? I think Catherine is a pretty generous murderer. Oh, yeah. I mean, cocaine on the penis. Sure, you're alive to see the ice pick penetrate your nose, your neck, a couple other parts of your body. but you're shooting your load inside of her while it's happening. Not a bad way to go. Yeah.

1:25:07Mallory Rubin:That's fair. Thoughtful. She could just kill them. Exactly.

1:25:11Bill Simmons:What do you got, Van? You scratch my back during the fuck section. It's over. Okay. I like...

1:25:19I know that like... I've had these conversations since 99. Hey, bro, I was in that shit like crazy doll. She was scratching my back up. I'm like, that's it. It's over. It's done. I don't even like spicy food. I don't like pain. You scratch... It's like... You bite my neck too hard? Hey, yo. On God, though, I feel you. Chill. All right? She scratches his shit like Wolverine is seeing Magneto. Yes. And this motherfucker's like, ah, God, whatever. Hey, what the fuck is wrong with you? It's true what they say about you. No, don't scratch my shit.

1:25:54Bill Simmons:Mine, I don't know how to prove this. I think this is the single worst cop performance ever by a cop in a movie. Yes. So we get to meet Nick. He's off cocaine for three months. Yeah. Three months. It's celebration. Let's have a party. He's killed four tourists in the last five years. Yeah. Yes. But each time it was undercover for drugs, so it's fine. Somehow got promoted, as CR mentioned. He's asked to trail this suspect, immediately falls in love with her and goes down this psychosexual path, loses his mind, loses his badge, and then ends up shooting his girlfriend. Murders his therapist. After he lets his girlfriend go up to reenact the page of a book that he just read.

1:26:44Bill Simmons:Crazy. Let's go up, shoots his girlfriend, and then somehow gets away with it, and he's back on the streets. I mean, this is like the real Dirty Harry. This is it. He was like lousy Harry. Terrible cop. Casting what ifs. We mentioned Kim Basinger. Meg Ryan turned it down. Gina Davis turned it down. Ellen Barkin. I'm amazed she turned it down. Meryl Hemingway turned it down. And then it was Demi Moore versus Sharon Stone and Sharon Stone won.

1:27:17Mallory Rubin:By far the funniest casting what if is that Emma Thompson auditioned for Catherine.

1:27:23Bill Simmons:Yeah, I didn't know what to make of that. Did you believe that? I auditioned for Kathy. Allegedly in one of the original scripts, Nick Curran was originally a lesbian cop written with Kathleen Turner in mind. And then they switched it. Paul Verhoeven was supposed to direct Black Rain, which will be on the rewatchables at some point in 2026, but dropped out to do Total Recall. And then I thought this was amazing. Verhoeven wanted Tom Berringer for RoboCop and Basic Instinct. And Berenger's like, no thanks. You're a weird pervy Dutch guy and I don't want to do a movie with you. I'll be doing Sniper instead.

1:28:01Bill Simmons:Milos Forman was the first choice to direct, didn't do it. And then I don't know what to believe with who was considered for Nick. It was basically every white actor from 1992.

1:28:10Mallory Rubin:The two other ones that were really big were Linda Fiorentino as Beth. And this is insane. But Brooke Shields as Roxy? Yeah. Saw that. You don't want to comment?

1:28:26Bill Simmons:It's just, there's no way. She just never would have done it. Best That Guy Award, Newman ineligible. Groundhog Day guy, Stephen Toblowski, he's ineligible. Dickie Greenleaf's dad, the principal headmaster from Senate Women, James Redhorn, ineligible.

1:28:46Mallory Rubin:Why is he ineligible?

1:28:48Bill Simmons:Because he's James Redhorn. Go ahead, Craig. We're getting real, real, real weird with that guy.

1:28:55Mallory Rubin:Even Craig knows he's just... The fact that you have to say the guy from Groundhog Day

1:28:58Bill Simmons:means he's a that guy. Yeah. I think Roxy wins the that guy award. No. Fuck all that. Because if you see her, you think it's Roxy. No, it's not her.

1:29:09Mallory Rubin:You're changing the definition of that guy. That guy means you've seen him so many times and you're like, that guy. We never see Roxy again. It's a song, Dance of Thunder. Who would the most amount of people in this room Be like oh that guy when they see him on screen

1:29:25Bill Simmons:So probably James Redburn That's fine What about The sheriff Jack McGee Who plays the sheriff He's also in Scrooge

1:29:38Mallory Rubin:Bruce A. Young who is the guy who says He had a minute amount of cocaine On the penis and in the lips

1:29:44Bill Simmons:Chelsea Ross I'm a team player you can give it to whoever you want Can we give Roxy the damn way Waiters Award, though? Definitely. No question. Is this a Hall of Fame Deanne Waiters performance?

1:29:55Mallory Rubin:I've recently become really obsessed with these Instagram videos where it'll be like Cam Chancellor being like, when I was out there, I was looking to kill. And then a fucking Drake song drops and it's just Cam Chancellor hits for like two and a half minutes. They should make one for Roxy. Just with her footage and basic instincts. Oh, I forgot where I was. Yeah. My bad.

1:30:20Bill Simmons:But recasting couch director, City. So Hazel Dobbins, does the character work better if it's just Jacqueline Bissett? Just throwing that out there. Wow, dead silence from the crowd. Let's walk through Tom Cruise as Nick. Yeah. Yeah. Let's just, I don't want to get in the car with this, but let's take a stroll around the block. Little younger. I think he brings the same amount on intentional comedy. Definitely. There's probably a running scene at one point. Probably across the Golden Gate. Right. He's running the Golden Gate for no reason at all. Yes. Yeah. He's running to Stinson Beach. Van, we'd get to watch him smoke.

1:31:00Bill Simmons:I'll see you there. I'll run. We'd get to watch him smoke. Nothing would be funnier than Tom Cruise ripping off Marlboro Reds. That'd be great. Him trying to have sexual chemistry with Sharon Stone, who's like working overtime. I would love that.

1:31:13Mallory Rubin:Him nude talking to Roxy in the bathroom. Yeah, new Tom Cruise. Let me ask you something, Rocky. Man to man. Him in the nightclub scene? Like, he's definitely like, I'm fucking dancing. He's going to fucking dance.

1:31:27Bill Simmons:Yeah. He's not going to be able to stay away. The beat's going to fucking completely destroy him. Now, I don't know if you want to imitate Tom Cruise in the cunnilingus scene.

1:31:38Bill Simmons:This has turned into E.T. It's like E.T. coming out of the closet. I don't know. I can see it. I see what you're saying. Yeah. So would you go Cruz or Douglas if you had to redo this? I feel like I would go Cruz. You got to go Douglas, man. What do you think, Craig? Stick up with Douglas. All right, fine.

1:32:00Mallory Rubin:Craig, you have a flex category. Vincent Chase Award. Are we sure this character was actually good at his job? Catherine Trammell. Fantastic planner. Messy killer. Reckless stabber. 31 stabs on Johnny Boss. Why? Why do you 30? Act like you've been there before. Jesus Christ. He's dead after five. I thought you were actually going to say, we don't know what kind of writer she was. Yeah. That too. I know she was fast because she would just be like, I'm off Oz. I'm on to Nick. Shooter's done. Now we're going on to the next one. Also, in the script, it says only 16 stabs for some reason, up to the double to 31 in the real movie.

1:32:40There is when she gives the copy of the first, the book about the kid who killed his parents in the plane crash. There's like a Newsweek blurb on there about what a masterpiece it is. And it does say on the top, bestseller. Oh, shit.

1:32:54Mallory Rubin:All the more reason why it would be hard for her to be a mass murderer. I mean, it's so real. Also, like, leaving the ice pick and the scene of the crime. Like, she's just buying ice picks every week. But that's her whole game, right? It's like, it's the taunt. Yeah, they're, you know, a book 40 at Kmart. She's just leaving bloody ice picks around? No regard for DNA? Messy. Reckless. I don't like it. Did she shoot Nielsen in the head in broad daylight?

1:33:15Bill Simmons:In a car? She got away with all of it Van, if you were dating her When you went to bed at night Would you check in different parts of the bed For the ice pick? Just to make sure Or would you just let it go? No, when you date crazy You like You buy in I would have like a metal detector That works like a Roomba Going around looking for an ice pick all over

1:33:37Mallory Rubin:Did you guys see that? Sharon Stone literally As she was stabbing Bill Cable the guy who played Johnny Boss, stabbed him so hard it went through the blood pack and pierced his skin and he went to the hospital. Too much.

1:33:47Bill Simmons:Wow. She was really committed.

1:33:49Mallory Rubin:Get off of me.

1:33:50Bill Simmons:Quick, have, fast, internet research. No body doubles used in any sex scenes. Yep. We mentioned the five days to film the big sex scene. Douglas declined to go full frontal in the film, which apparently he had in his contract. The patriarchy is so real. I did as well in my contract. I'm not doing it. Side dick, though. The first sex scene with Douglas and Triplehorn, it was the rehearsal scene. And creepy perv Verhoeven was like, that was good. Let's keep that as the main. And they didn't even know they were filming it as the real scene. That is like... Pretty weird. So gnarly. And then in Hollywood Animal, Joe Esterhaus' book, he claimed that he slept with Sharon Stone after the movie came out.

1:34:35Bill Simmons:That was in the book. Sure he did. Yeah, I don't... I think he was...

1:34:38Mallory Rubin:Esther Haas wrote this movie over the course of 10 days with no outline while listening to The Stones, which is a great euphemism for on cocaine. You can't tell. And then in the making of, I had to bring this up, is Verhoeven describes Nick as, quote, a cop who has gone through some bad times and has done some things that we might consider wrong. Including four murders. Incredible. You know what category we didn't do? We didn't do, does this movie need more black people? No. It's a killer clock on the list.

1:35:15Bill Simmons:He's killing everybody. Apex Mountain is another category we do where we decide if this was the peak of somebody's something. Got it. Controversial category. Michael Douglas, I'm going to say no. Nah. No. Sharon Stone, yes. Yes. Yeah, for sure. Joe Esterhaus, yes. Ceiling Sex Mirror. Could be Oh

1:35:39Mallory Rubin:Has it been done better than this? Do you think that this is maybe The end of the peak of ceiling sex mirrors? I know Cribs brought it back

1:35:47Bill Simmons:Cribs brought it back? I think like three members of the Trailblazers Had the ceiling mirrors I remember Zach Randolph definitely had it Love it San Francisco movies? Probably not Probably not, yeah Erotic thrillers Yeah Yeah I'm gonna say yes, alright Freeze frame moments? moments you pause on in a movie. Side dick freeze frame? Yeah. Phoebe Cates. What is it for Gene Triplehorn? Because it's probably The Firm, right?

1:36:16Mallory Rubin:The Firm, yeah. Isn't that right around this time? 92's kind of like, she'll be like, breaks out.

1:36:23Bill Simmons:Coke and Jack Daniels. Oh, sure. Got Pepsi in the fridge. Elevator murders. I'm going to go dress to kill. Gratuitous male actor ass shots. I think maybe. Oh, yeah. So there was a whole competition. So look, bust this. So he had to show his butt. He had no problem. He was in a white butt competition. Right. This was the apex of white butt competitions. Mel Gibson's butt, Lethal Weapon. Kevin Costner's butt, Robin Hood. Bruce Willis' butt later on in Color of Night. Douglas was like, you know what? I got the ass. Douglas the Stallion. Got to do it. I'm going to show y 'all that I got that nasty.

1:37:02He had to show his butt. He probably wanted to show it. He lost 25 pounds for the filming of the movie.

1:37:06Bill Simmons:He looks great. That shape of his life. We don't get to give this award all the time, but it's the Floyd Gondoli. Hold on for a second. Apex Mound, I got a couple of things. Oh, what do you got? Ice picks. Yeah, yeah. Apex Mound, ice picks. Yeah. Thank you. The crowd's applauding ice picks. What's happened to all of you? We've corrupted you in less than 90 minutes. Ice picks, fucking your therapist. I think this is like way up there, fucking your therapist right here. Not Sopranos? Also. Sopranos. Oh, well, the Sopranos, they never fucked. Fantasy scene. Yeah, the fantasy scene.

1:37:40Mallory Rubin:Did they fuck in Princess Bride? Prince of Tides. I thought you said the Princess Bride for a minute. I did for a second, yeah. Whoa. Do Streisand and Nolte have sex in Prince of Tides?

1:37:51Bill Simmons:Honestly, CR, you got me on this one. If you don't know, then it's probably not Apex Valley. Yeah. Haven't whipped that one out in a while.

1:37:59Bill Simmons:Woman on top? Woman on top. Woman on top. Yeah. You know, it might be. Somebody, hey, man, ladies, get loud for that. We know y 'all like that shit. It only actually feels good to y 'all. But like it, like, like, like woman on top. Like this is she, when she wants to exert her power, she flips over and that's how she does her thing. Woman on top. The Floyd Gondali, butter in my ass and lollipops in my mouth award for something I just enjoy. Here you go, CR. For me, it's cops getting in too deep. Now I'll even go a little further. when an unraveling and supposedly sober cop shows up at the police bar and orders a double.

1:38:38Yeah, yes.

1:38:40Bill Simmons:And multiple cops go, oh no. There he is. Nick's drinking again. I'm in every time. I just love it. Do you guys have any for that or should we keep going? Not wearing any underwear. So look, I love this, okay? Who told women they had to wear underwear? Men. Don't listen. Okay, let that thing out. You see what I'm saying? and also I'm gonna be honest with you guys I like doing it okay last year I got a wax job yep what's going on right now he he chronicled this on his podcast last year I got a wax job she waxed the entire thing and like three quarter way through the wax she goes like I love what you do and I'm like this is a little weird but that's okay oh no and after that it's just it feels sexy dog

1:39:39Mallory Rubin:that is probably closer to the floyd gondoli like essence of this category than we ever get so

1:39:46Bill Simmons:craig's on craig's on linkedin right now looking looking around

1:39:55Bill Simmons:we don't get to give this award out very much the he got game hooker scene for most awkward scene if someone randomly walks into the room. There's like five different scenes where your mother-in-law's coming down and you thought she was asleep. Yeah. Pick a nits. Why didn't Johnny Baza's corpse have a rigor mortis boner?

1:40:22Did it?

1:40:23Bill Simmons:You want me to Google it? I mean, that's why you have the computer. When you die, don't you just die? Like, everything's intact? I don't know if it's, like, getting frozen in carbonite. Like...

1:40:39Mallory Rubin:It's, like, the second your heart stops, you're like...

1:40:46Mallory Rubin:Are we sure it's not, though? Do we have a doctor in the house? It is a thing, a death erection. But he doesn't have an erection. Thank you. No.

1:41:02Bill Simmons:Thank you. Third deck. Thank you.

1:41:06Bill Simmons:How did Hazel Dobbins get out of jail? Just nine years. She served her time. Four. A husband and three kids gone. Let's let her out. I have a few more, but Sierra, you have any?

1:41:19Mallory Rubin:I mean, when does Catherine write? Oh, I had this too. She wrote Shooter in two weeks. Yeah, she writes Shooter in a matter of weeks. and she most of the time is having sex doing cocaine or driving around San Francisco.

1:41:32Bill Simmons:Or hanging out on Nick's doorstep waiting for him to come home.

1:41:35Mallory Rubin:Being like, hey, got you a houseplant.

1:41:37Bill Simmons:Prolific writer. Yeah, she's a genius. She is. Okay, I got one. Yeah. So after the first time they have sex, you know, this big, he spoons her. Nigga, this your girl now?

1:41:54He's in love with her. Nah, spooning is for Sunday. We watch an Avengers Endgame on TNT. It takes up the whole fucking afternoon. You do not spoon the psycho killer girl that you are investigating. He nuzzles up next to her, puts his hand over it. She calls her, what the fuck is up with you, homie? He ain't got no homeboys? You spooning? That quick? Simple-ass motherfucker.

1:42:18Mallory Rubin:CR? My picking it was really about Catherine's writing. Mal, you have any? I think the fact that Nick gets hit by a moving vehicle, that Roxy drives a Lotus into him and he is unaffected. He like shakes his head once as he gets behind the wheel. Like that's the concussion protocol. One head shake, no blood, no injuries, no damage to the car, which of course then will be damaged when it falls, rolls over the cliff, killing Roxy, who has no injuries, no blood on her, despite the car being destroyed. Internal injuries. Yes. Crazy. Ludicrous. Why did Johnny Boz give all of his money to her? Why was she the only one available to get the$100 million?

1:43:05Bill Simmons:Was that who she got?

1:43:06Mallory Rubin:I thought she got it from her parents. She got it from her parents. I thought it was Boz's money went to her after he died. Maybe he gets hit off. She gets some, but she's rich because of her parents. Because killing her parents. So, Beth.

1:43:19Bill Simmons:Yeah. As a nitpick. she falls for the broke cocaine using alcoholic with one friend who shoots people randomly once a year and just had his wife kill her kill herself and she's like when you go to dinner tonight would you like to come her her dying words are i loved you yeah like this was it for beth this guy's 20 years older than her she's a psychiatrist so this is like this is her cocaine yeah right like a good time every night with nick this is consistent though yeah so in the departed it, she falls in love. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the Sopranos, there's always this thing between Melfi. Like, what's going on with these therapists?

1:43:56I think they like that type of dumbass shit.

1:43:59Bill Simmons:They like the danger. Any more nitpicks? Because I'm going to move on. Sequel, prequel, prestige, TV, all black cast, or untouchable? I'd like to at least walk through all black cast. What is... Because I feel like they have tried to make versions of this. What's... There's the one with... I'm trying to think Help me out Okay what are you talking about which one Like Obsessed No it's the one with Ali Larder Oh Obsessed that's called Obsessed with Beyonce Beyonce's the motherfucker And Idris Elba There's another with Megan Good They never really pulled it off They haven't really pulled it off There's a thin line between love and hate Which actually takes place in the Bay Like with Martin Lawrence and Lin Whitfield And stuff like that it's tough We don't like to pick the narcissists like that You know what I'm saying?

1:44:48Our sisters don't get obsessed and shit like that. Prestige TV, could that work? Definitely.

1:44:53Mallory Rubin:Only to explain the ending. Yeah. I don't, I mean, I guess you could do it as Prestige TV. I will note that - Would you go backwards to Berkeley with Beth and - I would go backwards to Manny Vasquez years. Yeah. The boxing. I'd make a boxing show with Catherine as his girlfriend. But, you know, they made Basic Instinct 2, much maligned. It's horrible.

1:45:13Bill Simmons:Please don't rent Basic Instinct 2. And a year ago,

1:45:16Mallory Rubin:Joe Asterhas, who is 80, reportedly sold a screenplay to Amazon for$2 million that was going to be an anti-woke reboot of Basic Instinct because Basic Instinct is too woke. And he gave this quote. To those who question what an 80-year-old man is doing writing a sexy, erotic thriller, the rumors of my cinematic impotence are exaggerated and ageist. I call my writing parter, all caps, the twisted little man, and he lives somewhere deep inside me. He was born 29, he will die 29, and he tells me, sky high up, to write this piece and provide viewers with a wild and orgasmic ride. Do you want to see this?

1:46:08Mallory Rubin:Yes.

1:46:09Bill Simmons:We should have made you read that as Vince and Hannah. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Fergie the Florist, Zane Lowe, or somebody else here?

1:46:23Mallory Rubin:Nick, man. From nights of cocaine-fueled sex to days of shooting tourists, you've done it all. So what is it that gets you fired up? Could it be the best-selling author of mass-market paperbacks uncrossing her legs in the interrogation room? And where does Nick Curran go from here?

1:46:46Bill Simmons:incredible incredible amazing uh i i was hoping you would do wayne give us give us a quick wayne here's the contacts katherine is on a god damn she's on the book tour she's gone to baltimore on her book tour go what is she doing in baltimore on a book tour for her bestseller

1:47:06Mallory Rubin:oh i was just gonna say if wayne was gus it would be like god damn nick you got Sweetie Bird's flying around your head. Give us Magna Kulaube pussy in a Baltimore accent. Do it.

1:47:22Bill Simmons:He's not prepared for this. Going down to the ocean, hon. Can I give you Ryan Rucco? Please. Announcing the first scene in the movie. Catherine's riding and now she's reaching back. Is she going for the ice pack? You bet.

1:47:42Bill Simmons:Shout out to Rucco. Just one Oscar, who gets it? Stone. Jared Stone. All right. We all agree. Probably unanswerable questions. Dan, was it a big deal when Manny the Boxer died in the ring in 1984? Like, cover of Sports Illustrated? Had to be a huge deal, right? Like, Led Sports Center? Yeah. I feel like it was a big deal, too.

1:48:03Mallory Rubin:That was also another really weird cop moment, is when they're like, maybe if she put on afro and did blackface, she could be mad. I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? See, I was going to let it slide.

1:48:18Bill Simmons:How long did they date after the movie ended? Well, how long until she kills him, right? Because that's the answer. Is Nick still alive in 1995? No.

1:48:29Mallory Rubin:Nick has died of a massive cocaine in two-star attack. Yeah, he mentions Rugrats at the grocery store later that day, and she stabs him, I think. If he doesn't retract the Rugrats line, because she's like, I hate Rugrats. She kills him right then and there. No question. So it's got to be just a matter of days. I'm always on the unanswerable questions and how long does he last front? Like, at what point is he like, let me see some more of your pages about this detective so that I can just avoid the exact scenario that you have crafted and live a little longer? But he doesn't ask.

1:49:04Bill Simmons:I think they, I think Montana goes to the Chiefs. Nick unravels. He's back on the coke. and then she just kills him because he's annoying. He just never believes in Steve Young. Yeah, she just had it. She stabs him in death. Should she have just killed him at the ending? Is that a better ending? No. If she murders him and that's the end of the movie.

1:49:26Mallory Rubin:I don't think it would be like a fun theater-going experience if the last thing you see is Michael Douglas dying. Maybe it would be just. If the movie ends not with his actual death but with her grabbing the ice pick, like actually grabbing the ice pick, then you leave on something a little bit more.

1:49:43Bill Simmons:Can we do like the Sopranos ending? Kind of the same thing. I like it just like it is because it's there. She reaches for it. Then she retracts. So there's enough to like, I mean, you wanted to debate whether...

1:49:55Mallory Rubin:I was curious. I mean, like, I think I weirdly like, there's 8 % of me that's like, but Beth could have done it. And Catherine also could be crazy. The ice pick's just there. At the same time. Yeah. I like that this is your like spinning top at the end of Inception. Yeah. You're like, was it moving? Are we sure?

1:50:14Bill Simmons:Secret handshake club memorabilia you'd want from this movie. A copy of Love Hurts by Catherine Wolfe.

1:50:19Mallory Rubin:Ooh. V-neck. Shooter.

1:50:21Bill Simmons:The V-neck sweater.

1:50:22Mallory Rubin:Yeah, the V-neck. Would you wear it? I mean, if I had it. Yeah. What do you have, Craig? Those giant red, like, semen glasses that he wears. Yeah. Yes. Imagine I just got those on when you come over. I'm like, you know where these are from? Great one. Johnny Boz's apartment. they're called.

1:50:40Bill Simmons:The semen glasses. New from Chrome Hearts. What would you have, Van? I want the ice pick. Yeah, of course. It's got to be the ice pick. Or the mirror, ceiling mirror.

1:50:49Mallory Rubin:Mal, the storyboards. Well, I mean. Oh my God, the storyboards. That would be great. I would frame them and I would display them tastefully next to my ceiling mirror. On your ceiling mirror. Yeah.

1:51:01Bill Simmons:The Coach Finstock Mr. Miyagi Award for Best Worst Life Lesson. I think it's it's actually worth it to risk it all for the fuck of the century. I think is the lesson in this movie. I think Nick wins. Gets a girlfriend. Breaks up with somebody he didn't really like that much anyway. Gets out of a murder investigation. Gets rid of everybody at work that he kind of hated. Big dub. She's loaded. She's got money. Beautiful properties. I think the life lesson is wash your sheets. Yeah. I think the life lesson is what Ha said. That's her pussy talking. It ain't your brain.

1:51:41Bill Simmons:That happens CR what do you got For a double feature choice

1:51:44Mallory Rubin:Jagged Edge There's another Joe Esterhass thriller And it's also set In San Francisco

1:51:49Bill Simmons:I like that movie I had Total Recall Oh Fatal Attraction Double Verha Oh fatal I had Body of Evidence The Douglas Which is the bad version Of this movie That movie's awful With Madonna And Willem Dafoe Which is interesting Because the masturbation scene That you said That you wanted Yeah They actually do that in body of evidence. And Willem Dafoe is completely unprepared for it. Madonna just fucking goes for it. And he doesn't know what to do. The Green Goblin is like, what? Works every time. It's a really horrible movie. Who won the movie of Sharon Stone? No question. All right, we've never done this on a live show.

1:52:26Craig, we always go to him at the end

1:52:28Bill Simmons:to see what he thought of the movie. But you'd already seen this one. Well, because we did this five years ago.

1:52:33Mallory Rubin:That was when I watched it. But I don't think you asked me on that show. this movie is just elite entertainment we didn't know how good we had it in the early 90s it's crazy to me that this movie was reviewed poorly like compared to what we have now this movie looks fantastic it has like an elite actor great performance it's based off nothing huge star in it made 400 million dollars like this would be the achievement of the fucking decade if this movie came out right now yeah agreed alright there we go

1:53:04Bill Simmons:I would also So it's a very good 4K Blu-ray. Yes. I bet. Yeah. Physical media era. Yeah. For the San Francisco scenes. Yeah. Yeah. No, but in all seriousness, though, one reason why this movie holds up or it's so good or you can watch it now and digest it so easily is because San Francisco is a character in a movie. Yes. And we're not making as many movies. were Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego or characters in these movies. And they are just like, those cities are immaculate in terms of the way you can film it. You can't fake it. They look beautiful. You can't fake San Francisco. And so like, with that going away makes you have to make this movie like in fucking Atlanta or something like that, the volume or something.

1:53:49Basic instinct in the volume would be pretty funny. It's fucking stupid, right? That's its legacy. But also, you know, Michael Douglas saying, I don't remember how often I used to jerk off, but it was a lot. Also important. San Francisco's beauty and that. You don't want to have calluses. That's bad.

1:54:06Bill Simmons:That'll hurt your guy. You guys take San Francisco for granted because you live here, but this city's awesome. It's a really, really... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... you kind of feel like you're in a movie when you're here with all the hills and everything. If I lived here, the power walking, I was telling them, my legs would be like Adrian Peterson. I would just be in the greatest shape of my life. Thank God I don't live here. Listen, thanks for coming out. We had a great time. Thank you so much. This is awesome.

1:54:47Bill Simmons:We love this theater, so we're going to come back. But thanks for having us. Thanks for coming out. Have a great wrestling night. Thank you.