‘Eddie and the Cruisers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

20:33Bill Simmons:So she was in Diner the year before, and this year was in Tender Mercies and Eddie and the Cruisers and started coming up. The smoking is... I don't know when we're going to cover that. I don't think she doesn't have a scene where she isn't... And Behringer's always... Banging a cancer sick. The only place Behringer doesn't smoke is school. Is high school class. It's an elite smoking movie. Everybody's smoking all the time. And everybody is like really smoking. They're not like, don't give me the fake cigarettes. They're sucking them down. It makes sense too, sucking them down. Wow.

21:05It makes sense too. Rock stars. The life they live. Making them seem cool. She's pretty cool. She's a cool character. She's not in the movie that much. She's smoking. At that time, that was seen as a little bit sexier. It's a character a little something. Do you like this movie ironically at all? Or are you like sincerely Eddie and the Cruisers is like just a great film?

21:26Bill Simmons:I'm 100 % sincere with it. Yeah. Well, it taps into something else that I really like. Well, I love bands kind of on the rise. And bands coming up with songs on the fly in scenes that make no sense. They're two minutes long and they come up with a hit song. But I like the concept of... And we did this a little bit in the Counting Crows documentary when it seemed like he did the first album. and then Duritz kind of goes off the deep end, and it doesn't seem like they're ever going to record again, and the guys in the band are like, I just was almost touching the sun, and now I'm just back to my life.

21:59Bill Simmons:Like, what just happened? And I like the theme of these guys for like 18 months had it, and now it's like Sal Amato's at the fucking Holiday Inn Lounge with the Eddie Ripoff guy. And Joey Pants is drinking Pepto. He's eating pizza in the locker room, in his dressing room. They're followed by some lady on the piano who's like, and the guy Kenny's a blackjack dealer, and it just doesn't kind of work out for anyone. I think that happens a lot. Joanne's doing choreography. I think that happens, yeah. You know, I think when I watch the movie again, to your point, it is dated, right? I mean, obviously it's dated.

22:35It came out a long time ago. And even in performance, like all these people grew so much as performers like after this movie to me. Yeah. The scene where there's a fight between Eddie and Joey Pass's character, and it just like does not look real at all. It doesn't look like there's any real rage happening. It's very demonstrative. But the themes of the movie and like we were a part of this really amazing thing and this was as good as it was going to get and we really didn't know it. We thought it would go on for like a long time and Eddie's, his search for greatness being the theme that actually sabotaged the run of the band.

23:12That, we see that. Or even like the idea that Frank coming into the band And being like, let's do Rambo poetry and really get deep is what breaks it up. Because that's always one of my favorite moments is when Sal yells at him in the studio, like, we were fine before you showed up. It was you. We could have played Tony Martz forever. We could have just been the best band in Ashbury Park. But instead... I mean, you could make this movie every 10 years.

23:40Bill Simmons:You could have done a hip-hop version of this movie in the 90s and set it with some group in like 1984 that self-combusted and we're ahead of their time. The hardest thing to do about in movies like this is to make the song or songs, but the song specifically, because there's always got to be one, a song that people want to hear. Yeah. And this one has like four. But it has one main one and then it also has, and it's the same thing for That Thing You Do. Like That Thing You Do has some good songs, but what you want is to hear all these different iterations of That Thing You Do. And the same thing with Darkseid.

24:15You want to hear them do Dark Side three times. All you have to nail in a movie like this is the music. That's it. If you nail, it's hard to even conjure a film to where you like the songs, particularly the main song, and in some way you don't respond to the music. Because if, like, for that thing you do, which I'm going to talk about later, that song is so good, it's so catchy that you could see why the Wonders got famous so quick. Yeah. And why they couldn't recreate it because it was such lightning in a bottle. And with this one, they sell you on the fact that Eddie and the Cruisers are dope.

24:50And that's really all the movie has to do to create the mystery around the band.

24:54Bill Simmons:Did you watch Daisy Jones and the Six? I did. Did you watch it, Greg? Did you watch it? Yeah. So that has some of the themes of this. Of like, you're watching this band try to put it together. It's going back and forth. And it's trying to do all the 2020s. there's slight mystery to what we're watching all that stuff but for the most part same kind of themes and not being able to keep it together and good music in that too um five heartbeats we'll talk about it later like a movie like that they got a banger of a song out of it it makes it orients the whole movie um Joey Pants was the other one we didn't talk about who has this and Risky Business Guido the Killer Pimp in 1983 Goonies Running Scared of the Bomba and then Midnight Run in 88 he is a full-fledged that guy in 1983.

25:41He's also to my taste, blowing everybody off the screen in this movie. He is clearly so good and not only that, knows exactly who this guy is. I can't tell if he's wearing a prosthetic nose or not or if he's just really young. The hair is definitely a little weird. But he is the guy who's like, to your point, he's like, I had it for one second. You bet on all these bar bands and you get lucky with one of them. I struck oil and now I'm DJ in New Jersey. And now I'm like sitting in a overhead lighting in an overnight shift at a radio station. So much so to where he pulls some Scooby-Doo shit. Right.

26:20Like the desperation of like trying to like take on Eddie's persona and do all of that stuff. It's like they sell that. They kind of create that at the beginning of the movie. Look, he's working in this small little room. Word man comes in. He has all of these ideas. Maybe we can be technical consultants. First time I ever heard of a technical consultant on the movie. Yeah. Maybe we can be in the movie. And do you know how desperate he is from that time on?

26:46Bill Simmons:So, I think my favorite Joey Pants in this is when they're on the roof, which is a great scene. And they're just, Frank's like playing that song and he's like, can barely sing. And he's sitting there and he's like, Dark side coming. And he's just a sound. They're laughing. And he's like, this guy can't sing. He can't write. He can't. And he just like eviscerates him. but it's just classic Joey Pants. And you can see all the seeds for... Who's the Sopranos character? Ralphie? Ralphie. Yeah. Ralphie, Cypher. It's like all of the characters that made him famous, there's a little bit of them in that role.

27:23Mark Scone Bail Bonds is right there. Yeah. Did you tell fucking Jack?

27:29Bill Simmons:Everybody's telling me to go fuck myself. The Beaver Brown Band we mentioned, they were found by Lou Eisen, or Kenny Payne, the technical consultant for the film who was Luiz and the executive, who's like, bunch of jerk-offs,$10 ,000. Found these guys and they wanted the cruisers to be this Jersey bar band. So there's some shades of Springsteen in this, which I think was a bigger deal in the 80s. Basically massive. You're like, I watched this 100 % seriously. I watched this like 70-30. I think the 30 comes from the fact that there is a break in the space-time continuum of rock history that happens in this movie that I cannot get over.

28:12What is it? Tell us. Well, Eddie and the Cruisers sound almost exactly like Bruce Springsteen.

28:19Bill Simmons:Yeah. Bruce Springsteen would have started in the early, mid-70s and really starts to sound like Eddie and the Cruisers or vice versa in the mid-70s. They make tender years in 62 or 63 and they're working on Season in Hell in 64. That predates… The Bob Dylan record, Bring It All Back Home, and Highway 61 Revisited. It predates the Beatles doing Rubber Soul and Revolver. It predates... Eddie was ahead of his time, man. Bill, it's beyond ahead of his time. Ray Charles and the Shirelles is what was on in the radio. They would not have a rock band with a sax player doing rock opera 70s music, and you're asked to believe that this guy is basically Dylan going electric, but without Dylan having ever happened.

29:08The only thing that drives me nuts about this movie is that if they just said it in 73, then they would have been able to be like, yeah, we're trying to get this feeling back. And then it's just 10 years later in 83 when they're like, Eddie disappeared. But now 10 years later, there's a revival. But the idea that this is happening at sock hops is kind of like Marty McFly going back and starting rock and roll in Back to the Future. Oh, man. So, fair points. One of my favorite white supremacist scenes of all time. Yes. Marty invents rock and roll. I love that. Is this done to make Eddie seem like he's a once-in-a-generational rock visionary?

29:48I think the book is set in like the doo-wop era. I see what you mean. And they made it more like we want this to sound like Jay Giles band John Mellencamp. Because they go from runaround suit. They go from covering runaround suit. Yes. Straight to dark side. And it's like... And then season in hell. And then season in hell. By the time season in hell comes out, they're like in excess. So it was like... But when Season of Hell happens, they're like, this is like avant-garde. And I'm like, this sounds like an Eagles song from the long run. Like, it's not that... What other movies do you want to ruin now, Sierra?

30:17The Warriors? Could we ever get

30:19Bill Simmons:40 ,000 gang members in one spot? No, I'm just saying, this is an easy fix that they chose not to make. I don't know why. I think they definitely could have made it three, four years later and probably not lost anything. I think they really wanted the innocence of the early 60s. Well, in that scene at the college They literally pull up And Sleepwalk is playing, right? Yeah Which is the scene The song The instrumental that you play To say Hey, we're in the 60s and the 50s It was a different time Yeah, Stand By Me Stand By Me And Sleepwalk is playing And then they come on there And just their energy Completely disrupts Everything that the college has going on Yeah If they were playing that disruptive music Way ahead of their time, CR In 63, like what would they have been playing?

30:59It's just these guys are doing Would you have laughed at the Rolling Stones? Exactly I wouldn't have Because they didn't exist in this universe. You know what I mean? Apparently, they don't go on Ed Sullivan. The Beatles are not on Ed Sullivan in this universe.

31:10Bill Simmons:They had the sax player from Beaver Brown. Michael Antunes is the sax player in the movie. That was the only one they cast over. Wendell. No lines. Tough. Well, he does. He makes an impact. He makes an impact. I got things to say. Zero lines.

31:27Bill Simmons:They re-released the soundtrack in the fall of 84, a year after the movie came out. and it goes quadruple platinum and all this shit. And even Tender Years peaked at 31. So two top 35 hits and it just kept going and going. So the director is Martin Davidson. He wrote the screenplay of his sister and basically got screwed over by the studio who paid for it. Couldn't figure out how to release it properly and it ended up on HBO and he was like, nobody's ever going to see my movie not realizing HBO is about to come HBO. And not realizing that the rewatchables would force streamers to put it on. I think Shout Factory.

32:04Bill Simmons:The real reason we're doing this is because we need Kiss of Death back. And if we have an Eddie and the... We brought Eddie and the Cruisers back to life. Much like Eddie Wilson at the end of this movie. And now Kiss of Death has to be next. Craig, 95 minutes plus five on the Horlbeck scale. Five under par. Pretty impressive. This movie is as good as it is and is as enjoyable as it is because it's 95 minutes. If this movie is two and a half hours, it's unwatchable. Oh my God. unwatchable and it just goes to show you how much that matters like the 95 minutes is a part of why this movie is so great though that being said for my probably answerable questions I have some questions about what you would like to see more of yeah so one of the reasons it hit on HBO was it was 95 minutes very easy they could put it on at 8 and it would be done at 9.35 and they could go right into a comedy special 5 million dollar budget made 4.7 million Roger Ebert two stars Eddie and the Cruisers is all build up and no payoff.

33:01Bill Simmons:He wrote that. They could have had a good movie here. They had the cast for one. They even had the music. The soundtrack is terrific. But the ending is so frustrating, so dumb, so unsatisfactory. Gives a bad reputation to the whole movie. I have a counter for Raj. Go fuck yourself. Wow. First, go fuck yourself. Like, with a capital F. Like, to start there. I really like the ending. I love that he lived. I mean, granted, I saw this first when I was 15 years old but him coming back with the beard and being like oh my god he's fucking alive he was alive the whole time because they're hinting at it but you don't actually think they're gonna do it and then they actually do it and I don't know I'm still into it but to Roger's point it doesn't really mean anything by the time we find out that he's alive it's the last second yeah by the time we find out that he's alive what well he wanted respect right he did want respect right now he's watching through a window on his TV A season of hell and all of that stuff.

33:59Bill Simmons:I finally got my respect. It's too bad you saw it the way you saw it because I would like to know whether you thought watching the movie, you're like, is Eddie breaking into people's houses and looking for the season in hell tapes? Yeah, see, I knew the ending. Well, let's find out from Craig, who knew nothing about the movie. So the twist ending, what did you think? Well, unfortunately, I knew there was a sequel called Eddie Lives. I think it's tough. I didn't have a problem with... I thought, yeah, I considered... I didn't know what was going to happen in a nice way. I was let down by the Joey Pants ending, to be honest.

34:33Because they just signaled that way too clearly. I actually thought that was going to be like a classic red herring. Because he was so ridiculous. He would be my first culprit. I thought it was going to be like Sal Amato who wanted to be the leader. And that's why he killed Eddie. Or it was Eddie coming back or something like that. Sal Amato cut his brakes? Is that your take? Yeah. Because I thought he was like, you're screwing us up. I can lead us to the promised land by doing runaround sue for 20 years. But I didn't have a problem with the ending. To me, like, the movie's already over at that point.

35:01It's just like a fun button at the end. It's definitely over. The movie kind of overs with the rekindled romance between Word Man and Eddie's girl. Classic dirty macking, hating, cooking happening in this movie behind Eddie's fucking back. Word Man, are you crazy? It's tough. Some guy code being broken. He's lucky he just called him Toby Tyler and made him work for it, you know? But, like, the movie, to me, it was always... There's no real story. Like, I enjoy this movie. This is like, legitimately, this made me homesick for Louisiana. Like, I watched the movie, and it felt like I'm back in General Jackson, Baton Rouge, Gardeer, Pizza, Eddie and Cruisers, and so on.

35:39But like, it's not actually like a real movie in any way, shape, or form. She starts off, and she's going to be looking for him. That just kind of goes nowhere. They get rid of that.

35:49Bill Simmons:Yeah. Like, they just fucking go, okay. Like, really, if the movie was driven by her trying to get this story. You're talking about Ellen Barker. Ellen Barker. The payoff would almost make more sense. It's two framing devices. Right. Because they've got to get Ellen Barkin to Tom Berenger, but when they get to Tom Berenger, it becomes him going around, meeting people from his past, and having these reveries, remembering his days with Eddie and Cruisers. I don't think we were putting a ton of thought into stuff in the 80s. But we were having fun, though. We were having a great time. And we were fucking having fun.

36:19Bill Simmons:It stuff didn't add up. We didn't care, because it was like, I'm the dark side of the movie. If Season in Hell somehow came out two years before Highway 61 revisited, who cares? But wasn't it better, though? But wasn't it better sitting down and finding reasons to like what the fuck you were watching? Yeah. It was better to say, hey, this has great music. This is a cool story. You have an interesting lead. Or I guess Tom Berger's the lead. You have an interesting character here. Just sit down for 90 minutes and have a good time rather than get off and pull everything apart and overanalyze it. Also, yeah.

36:53You just have more fun with movies. And it's what you get out of it being 95 minutes. You could explain it more if they added 20 minutes to get into some stuff, but then is it as enjoyable of a movie? No. Probably not.

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38:29Bill Simmons:Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphia. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimphia, including important safety information. All right. Most rewatchable scene. Opening credits. This is how it's done, CR. Yeah. Cold open. Dark side's coming now. nothing is real. And this is to meet everybody. Doing Dark Side at the college I would imagine. And then it cuts to Ellen Barkin on her like 17th SIG of the day. It's like 1230 in the afternoon. Yeah. Giving Dog walking every guy in the room full of guys. She's just dropping lady all over them. They're all in love with her.

39:12Bill Simmons:And she does you ever hear of a poet named Arthur Rambeau? Committed suicide not in the flesh but of the mind and soul. pretty good hook yeah good song everybody's everybody's skeptical you're fucking crazy Eddie fucking died who cares Maggie what's the hook what are you doing like what's the deal what's the and she's like and that's why you think that the story's gonna be through her perspective but it seems that's up the entire film we got Word Man's flashback to meeting the cruisers at the Tony Mart Word Man Frank Ridgway Jersey Shore 62 needed a Cesar door yeah timely pause barking goes to see frank at school sits on his desk the night he died the cruisers died with him right he was my friend you i just met uh fake cruisers band at the sal lounge leading into the memory of being on the roof creating on the dark side which might have been the best seven minutes of the 80s i don't know it's Hagler Hearns Hagler Hearns and this better than Danger Zone better than Hagler Hearns get away from her you bitch I love Fake Eddie Fake Eddie comes out with this 1983 lounge band and has the leather jacket and kills it we get the whole word of music thing get the performance with the coming back to the cover guy wrapping it up but we get to I just love when watching somebody create a song from scratch.

40:47Bill Simmons:Yeah. I also love any scene where a band is together creating a song and there's an unexpected missing ingredient. Like, there's an unexpected look, style. So he does it twice. He does it when he's explaining to them we're going to marry what we do at Barrock with high literary concepts and all of that. But then he does it again. Listen, like, he's got something that nobody else has. And the difference between Eddie and the rest of the band is Eddie can hear it and they can't. Michael Perret said, the scene on the roof, which is awesome. He said, I've been told that that scene atop of Tony Mart is the way rock and roll happens.

41:28Bill Simmons:You take a melody and just make it rock and it just sort of happens. It's one of the most flattering things you can say. I mean, it's an awesome scene. Nothing is funnier than when a hit song comes together in a movie in two minutes. I fucking love it. Like, hey, come in. Perret is like, what are you on vacation? and jump into these motherfuckers. And he literally comes in on time, note perfect, and he's like, boom, boom, boom. The sax guy comes in. He's got a solo already planned out. Girl comes in on the drums, Joanne, banging the thing. I love also when, like, everybody catches the vibe. Yeah.

42:01And then they have to be a part of it. People start dancing, hitting the tambourine, and adding melodies. All of a sudden, they got a song. When that Beatles documentary came out, did you watch that? Yeah, it was a little like this. It was.

42:11Bill Simmons:It was. It just took 15 minutes. Yeah, and there would be, like, lots of, like, dudes being like, Like, did you watch the Johnny Carson show last night? That was really good. Because you think about Get Back, and you think that, like, when you think about some of the songs that the Beatles made, you think that these songs were, like, handed down from, like, the gods and given to Lennon and McCartney. And you just see him going, what sounds best, Tucson? Is it fucking Tucson or Fingers? What should we put in the song? And that's they fucked around until they hit on something that people will remember forever.

42:39But they just have this, like, Dark Side comes out fully formed. Right.

42:44Bill Simmons:I thought Berenger does a good job even though you never see his hands of like he's got like this head knob and and uh parade in that scene where he's like he's just so happy it's happening and you can feel like the uh the Eddie charisma yeah it's a good scene um that leads to Sal's last song with the fake Eddie band right into uh Wild Summer Nights we go back to 63 we go Wild Summer Nights right in Tender Years um Really good parade performance again, but ending with the Behringer piano. The sax guy coming over. Yeah, that's fucking awesome. Putting the elbow on the piano. Just like, yeah. Do you have a favorite not dark side Eddie song?

43:26Bill Simmons:Tender Years is good. Tender Years is good. It's like just a flat out solid song. I don't know if you noticed this though, but it comes back to Sal after Tender Years and they're wrapping up and they play some oldie book Eddie song and all the people in the audience are holding cigarette letters. And he finishes it and it cuts to the crowd and there's this lady in the front row who's like this. Could it be a really funny social clip? This extra's just going for it. She's making like five bucks for three hours just like throwing herself into it. Sal and Word Man eating pizza I enjoy. So let me test drive this one for you.

44:07Bill Simmons:Because Sal's really going for it. He's got the sweaty lip. Seating pizza He's about to start crying I think he might be A Peter North award For most effort Loaded into one movie Matthew Lawrence Yeah it's like He's got this Nothing bass part He's throwing himself Into this Full speed 100 % You kind of need him In this movie too Yeah you do Think about the little Solitically that he does After a song And he's sitting down there And he's telling them Remember when you used to Driving around And things were getting wild In the back seat And you're touching on her And all of this stuff And everybody's starting to feel Remember that first time?

44:39Remember that first time? This is my flex. What is it? Salamato. I used the Bam out of bio. Where the fuck did that come from? Mel from 90210. going nuts. Salamato in the nightclub, he could have been at the Copacabana. He was smooth as butter. Because he always had that. He was just like, I can't be Eddie, but I'm really close. He's fucking nice on stage that night. He's pretty good. So he had,

45:02Bill Simmons:he was in, he was the gay guy in San Elmo's Fire. He lived across the hall from Demi Moore. And then peaked at 90210. know he was david silver's dad davis pops he served david he served donna martin champagne got her drunk she passed out at the high school graduation and then wasn't allowed to graduate and they revolted and it was all because of salamata salamata serving underage kids champagne uh i thought he was great in this the toby tyler move we mentioned into frank and maggie which i think i think every scene with behringer and barker is just really good yeah and i had that's coming later, but Barkin hates this movie?

45:40Bill Simmons:Yes. Hates it. She fucking shit all over it. She shit on it. That was to pay the rent. That was to pay the rent. We didn't know who was in charge. The movie fucking sucks. Everybody was on drugs. Everybody was on drugs. And she hints to being actually mistreated on the movie in a way if you watch how just viciously she treats the film. Hurt my feelings. Wendell dies right into Eddie crying and being able to sing Tender Years. Yeah. My best friend died last night. Season of hell going sideways. This is what I've been waiting a year for. A bunch of jerk-offs making weird sounds.

46:20Bill Simmons:That guy. That guy is funny as fuck. He's so fucking mad. What was that? Lou Eisen? Yeah. He's like that$10 ,000. He gave them$10 ,000. Yeah. And they came back with some experimental bullshit when he's trying to get the kids to the fucking sock hop to dance. Really funny. And, uh, We ain't great. We're just some guys from Jersey. If we can't be great, then there's no sense in ever playing music again, Sal. That's why I think before every tailgate. It does haunt Eddie through the sequel, Eddie Lives. You know, he's like, I just don't want to get up on stage unless it's going to really mean something, you know?

46:54Bill Simmons:And then the ending.

46:58Bill Simmons:That's it for Rewatchable. What do you got? I'm going to go writing Darkseid. Yeah. I think that's me too. That's what it is. Did you enjoy Eddie in the flashback in the fucking junkyard castle? Palace of Depression. The Palace of Depression. Which apparently actually exists. It did, yeah. I love that scene because that's when Eddie starts to crash out towards the end of the movie. The middle to the end of the movie. Those are my favorite parts of the movie. He crashes out in front of the house. He's comparing himself to the Edsel. Yep. I think it's cool because for the most part it's all of Behringer's happy memories of it.

47:39And then it's like when Joanne is like... Kenny and Joanne are like the ones who were like, it wasn't all happy. You know? Like, it was like there was some dark shit.

47:45Bill Simmons:Yeah. And then CR's like, this wouldn't have even existed. There's two years for Dylan, you dumb motherfuckers. What's the most 1983 thing about this movie? No caller ID. Oh. It really jumps out. Yeah. When Joanne keeps getting these calls, now you would just be like, who's this number? She couldn't even... I don't even think they had Star 69 yet. Watching a row of TVs through a department store window is very 1983. That doesn't exist anymore. It's a trope that continued to come back up. Now it would be like a homeless guy with no pants on watching through a Best Buy and then peeing on the window.

48:24Bill Simmons:Now it would have been the end of it in the Deezer. What the fuck? What the fuck are you talking about? Is Eddie the homeless guy? Eddie the homeless guy. Yeah. I have a couple here for the 83. One is Dark Side just sounds like Bryan Adams or Southside Johnny or John Mellencamp. So like very classic early mid 80s rock sound. And then Ellen Barkin working for Media Magazine, which is in fact a television news program, was like a very big thing. At least in Philly, they had one of these. I think it was called... We had one too in Boston. I think it was called like Entertainment Magazine or Entertainment Week or something like that, but it was like two hosts.

49:05Yeah. And then they would be like... Hard-hitting stories. Bruce Willis and Sybil Shepard, they're back on screen for Moonstruck. Yeah. And it was just like a really weird phenomenon back then. Regional entertainment news programs.

49:18Bill Simmons:Yeah, it would be the celebrities that passed through that they were in an interview. Yeah. But then it would be like a hard-hitting piece about some school that lost its funding for the school play. Yeah. One, the smoking. very 1983, how much smoking they have in it. Maybe even more than 83 was. They had non-smoking sections by then. True, the smoking. Also, the fact that in this part of the 80s, they just did not give a fuck about aging or de-aging or anything like that in any way, shape, or form. This is... In no way, shape, or form. Berenger's exactly the same age. They don't give a fuck. They would take you, mess your hair up a little bit, put you in an open shirt, you're 14 years old.

49:59Like you're 14 He in this movie is 83 Right he's 34 or whatever So when he joined the band he was 14 or 15 years old I think it's supposed to be 17, 37 But this is another problem With the space time continuum It's like Joey Pants He looks the same Then they give him a little baldy He's 20 years older the whole night Just in the 80s he just didn't care You're younger it doesn't matter Joanne barely looks different She looks almost exactly the same They just changed her wardrobe.

50:28Bill Simmons:She just looks great. Yeah. Yeah, they didn't put a lot of thought into this stuff. It almost makes you think they thought it was going to be 1968, and then they decided in the editing to shave six more years out of it or something. Yeah. I think it's just closer to the book. Beringer basically looks exactly the same. There's no difference at all. For the Floyd Gondali, butter on my ass and lollipops in my mouth for something I just enjoy. I said it already but watching in a movie or a TV show a band create a song from scratch gets me every time I have when the quiet part of a rock song makes way for the loud part of a rock song via isolated guitar riff and hand claps this is good stuff when it's just like here we go dark side's about to kick in um sleepwalk being a like a fucking soundtrack for like the 50s and 60s yeah it always gets to me but also I like Frank's Dirty Mackin' man Frank don't Word man don't even give a fuck She walks into the bar He sees her He's like Oh shit What's going on right now And then fucking Eddie comes in And he kind of Tamps it down But as soon as Eddie is gone He's trying to get that ass He's right back on his shit Trying to steal Eddie's girl In college Some bad things happen Yeah I actually watched it Like two or three times Being like Did I miss the part Where she's like Me and Eddie are on a break It's like No she's right back In Eddie's arms Like the second after He makes out with her it's tough shit man can't trust them Chris Ryan will do a song about it woman empowerment 1963 she can sleep with whoever she wants Bill she wasn't being shacked he doesn't own her would take the best mentioned a couple already but I think Wendell is a home run in this movie because he has no lines but you feel him in the movie which made me wonder do we create the Wendell Newton Award for best performance with no lines zero lines have we ever had a no line it's weird because it's not even like hey man grab me a coach it's nothing doesn't speak yeah doesn't even say like yeah nothing not even one word heroin very powerful you know yeah but you know his whole fucking life story by watching him play with Eddie and the Cruisers yeah you know exactly he's playing for a long time in a jazz band Eddie heard him someplace brings him into the Cruisers it changed his fucking life him and Eddie he had a whole song he even taught Eddie some music he was Eddie's like musical Obi-Wan that's right this was the Springsteen issue for this movie when they thought it was a Springsteen ripoff because Clarence Clements was the probably the biggest he'd ever most famous he'd ever read on 1903 what's up big man?

53:04Bill Simmons:Hall of Fame Smoke we mentioned I like Jersey Shore in the 60s I have Jersey Shore also like Jersey Shore in the 70s the 80s and the 90s it was really fun to go to I like when Eddie gives Frank the green light to write songs and then he does the that's the most you'll ever get out of me word man little like bonding on the beach and then Berenger just is completely committed to this the whole time but I like at the end the end's ridiculous when Joey Pants is like I'm gonna get the tapes I'm gonna make the best deal we can and he drives away and Berenger comes flying in and he's like go get him Doc

53:44Bill Simmons:just makes me laugh what do you have for what stage is the best um like this is oriented around a conspiracy theory that Eddie is still alive. Yeah. That was very much alive then. That was the heyday of Elvis is somewhere hanging out in Montana. We did it again in the 90s. Was D.B. Cooper a big thing? D.B. Cooper. Yeah. We did it again in the 90s. Tupac lives in Jamaica. Tupac's the best one. Yeah. Still like 30%. 30 % he might be. Andy Kaufman, people thought. Andy Kaufman. The conspiracy theory that the movie is wrapped around that's really age good. I want to hear your Tupac theory, though.

54:21What happened to Pac? If Pac's alive, where is he? Just saying I believe that one the most.

54:26Bill Simmons:Did he get shot, though? Like he's in hiding. No, sadly he died. But that was the one I really wanted to believe. In the late 90s, I really tried to talk about it. It's a Bill Simmons exclusive. He can confirm that Tupac is dead. If you put drinks at me in 1998, I would have gone nuts for it. We all thought it. Everybody was in... And it was so funny. Because he was still releasing music. Bro, it was funny because, like, my mom caught me up on it one time. My mom goes, remember how stupid you used to say we looked when we would say that Elvis was still living or something like that? Remember how stupid y 'all are doing the same thing?

55:00I was like, but this is different. Yeah. I got pieces of autopsy. Music is still dropping. He said this on this song. If you listen to it right there, these Jordans that he's wearing in his video, mama, these Jordans wasn't even out. It was really good.

55:13Bill Simmons:It died, I'm going to say, like, early 2000s. It became ridiculous. but it did have a really good two-year run. Great shot Gordo Award. Most cinematic shot. I don't have a specific cinematic shot. I want to give a shout out. Really good extras acting in this movie. All the bar scenes with the crowd. Everybody's acting like someone out of bar. The college concert's great. The college concert's great. Big Kahuna Burger Award. Best used food and drink. Sal's pepperoni pizza. Yeah. As you know, I love a good old school greasy slice. He never takes a bite out of it though. There's also a lot of people drinking what seemed to be Seven and Sevens.

55:52Which is a very 83, you know, like that early kind of like 80s drink.

55:58Bill Simmons:Chess Rockwell. Hold on, I got one. They both come from that scene. The PBRs though. The PBRs tells you what kind of guys these fucking are. One of beers, a fucking PBR. And Schlitz. They're drinking Schlitz too. Yep. Chess Rockwell. Best character name. Frank Ridgway is pretty good. The Word Man, Frank Ridgway. I had Salamato, but yeah. Salamato's good too. Denethy's Benihana Award scene still in location. It's got to be the Junkyard, right? Yeah, it looks great. CR, you have a Flex category. Vincent Chase Award. Are we sure this character was good at his job? Frank. Oh, Word Man. Yeah, Word Man.

56:34Oh, I thought you were almost certainly going to go with Joey Panty. I wouldn't say that Word Man is blowing my mind with his words. Like, Dark Side's a good song, but I don't know if you deserve the title word man for Darkseid. Whoa, whoa, tender years. Won't you wash away my tears? He also steals his bandmate's girl, which it's a knock for me in terms of being in a band and having a bandmate. And he kind of forces them into a life of obsolescence when you spring season of hell on them. It wasn't for Frank. They probably would have made Tender Years Part 2 and done five.

57:08Bill Simmons:Could barely play the synth. Yeah, exactly. Had to be taught just how to do this. He's like, no, play these cool chords. He's like, D, D, D, D, D, D. We're a man kind of a bitch. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, no, you know, I thought this. We're talking about... I'm having a great time. Like, we're a man kind of a bitch. We're a man fucked up everybody's life. Also, we're a man... Stole somebody's girl. Class traitor. Yeah, exactly. He's basically like a little arts... We're a man a straight up hoe. Yeah. Like, he gets to the college. He is, like, really slumming. What did they say to the part of you?

57:40You're dropping your ass, hanging out on the... That's what Word Man is doing. Word Man sucks. That's what Eddie says to him. He's like, I didn't say better. I said different. Yeah.

57:49Bill Simmons:You'd like this movie. Of course I do. You're like 90-10. Yeah. I didn't like the 70-30. Butch's Girlfriend Award weak link of the film. Doc's plan of torturing Joanne and everyone else for the tapes and wrecking their apartments over just asking them if they had the tapes. I don't know. I have some notes. Maybe just ask Joanne. Hey, do you have the tapes? We never really come back to the fact that he walked into his apartment and it looks like someone was killed there in signs of a struggle. Like going crazy. It was like, all that stuff, it just comes from the movie. It's just like, go get it, Doc!

58:20What's the worst is Tom Barringer's acting when he sees that his apartment's been trashed. First of all, he's working at a, he's a school teacher who's in a trailer park in Vineland, New Jersey. But he walks in and it's completely destroyed. He's like, okay. Starts smoking a cigarette and answering his phone. Answering his phone.

58:38Bill Simmons:What's the worst? The sequel. So, oh, tough. Why did they do this? But... 89 for some reason gave us... Wait, 88 and 89 gave us Caddyshack 2. Another 48 hours. Another 48 hours, which we've begrudgingly decided we liked. There's just a bunch of bad ones where they were just trying to capitalize, I think, on the rewatchability of these movies on cable. Being like, maybe these dumbasses will go see a shitty version of a sequel. You know how you don't remember the pods we did during COVID? Yeah. Did we do another 48 hours like two months ago? Yeah. We did. We did. We did. We did. Did you get the COVID vaccine again?

59:17No, I just got it. Boy, Bill's going forward. I can't wait until what happens in a couple of months. What happens? Bill's right on the edge, guys. Just hear the things that are being said. But what's going to happen? Did you get the COVID vaccine a little bit? It's going further. Let's watch. Oh, you think he's getting red pills? Oh, no. Bill, it's happening.

59:31Bill Simmons:I don't remember anything that happened in 2020 or 2021. But you're saying it's because of the vaccine. Apparently, the Bucs playing the Suns in the finals. I'm telling you. It's kidding. Look, so what's age the worst is that Okay, so there's... How many black guys are in the group? One. It's one. He died of the group. It could have been a drummer. It would have been one thing if everybody in the cruisers had a drug problem, if they were sharing needles and the whole deal. It was the 80s, they missed an opportunity. One of the guys could have become HIV positive. I shared a needle with fucking...

1:00:07Two black guys. Two black guys. The guy that replaced. The guy that replaced him. The poor guy that replaced him is just like, I just want to say that the greatest saxophone player who ever lived died. And this motherfucker's holding the saxophone like, God damn, let me try to keep up with this. And that's what's age to work. Let me ask you a question. It's probably unanswerable. End of the day, Wendell goes home. You think he's like, man, I'm in this great band. It's Eddie and the Cruisers. I play sax. I don't talk a lot. But man, I love being in this band. Or do you think he's like, shit, I got to get back into a hard bop combo.

1:00:37I got to get back to jazz. What a good question. Is he calling it home being like, man, some of this stuff Eddie wants to do stuff like I've never fucking heard before. Yeah. Or is he like, fuck, how did this happen to me? Yeah, how am I playing? I knew fucking Miles Davis. A 12-second solo over a terrible blues rock band. So do you think Frank never,

1:00:54Bill Simmons:it's realistic that Frank never would have known that he overdosed in heroin at the Ebtide Motel? I mean, it's crazy. Like, I guess that... Because Kenny the Blackjack Taylor is like, where were you, man? When are you going to wake up? This goes into my hottest take later. Okay. Yeah. What stage is the worst? None of these characters ran into each other for 20 years. And they all live in the same state where there's not a ton to do. They're all like 20 minutes apart. They never had some sort of 10-year reunion. Nothing. I thought that was weird. The Springsteen shadow we mentioned. Mentioned Ellen Barkin hating this movie.

1:01:27Bill Simmons:I have one more big one. Does anyone have anything else? They hinged the entire insult of... Eddie's insult of Wordman on stage at the college on the Toby Tyler character from like a Disney movie that was around back then. I don't really know if that's really hitting in 2026 people are like oh yeah Tyler and Van mentioned it Berenger and Schneider look like they don't look at all day older than when they were in high school oh one more thing we gotta fix this Amazon and Apple their posters for this movie are the Salamato band oh it's fucking crazy it's Eddie and the Cruisers and you're like neither Eddie nor Berenger nor Barkin are in the poster it's salamato and his holiday in band that ties into uh what by what stage the worst was and this is i'd like to do this as a public service um to all the streamers watching this right now uh all of them including netflix um so this movie's ending right surprise ending with eddie in the window and he's got the beard and the and the closing credits come on amazon's counting me down in the bottom right corner because it's about to send me to the next thing yeah and now I really want to hear the ending and you have to like grab your phone or your remote, frantically try to stop it so they don't send me to like fucking Harry Potter season 7 or whatever they're going to send me to.

1:02:48Bill Simmons:And it's like fuck off. Yeah. Let me enjoy the end of a movie for 20 seconds before you're sending me to your next thing so you can bill your fake streaming hours to me when all I did was leave my TV on and you pretended I watched something else. Fuck you. Some of your best work, Bill. This is what, this is the fucking shit, bro. This is the shit. Yeah. It's fucking bullshit. I fucking can't stand it. Can I finish? God forbid they don't push you to the next show. You know what, Bill? Good for you. Thank you. Good for you for saying it despite current business situations. No, I'll go for it. Cross the board.

1:03:21Like, let me watch the fucking movie before you give me five different things to watch.

1:03:27Bill Simmons:Or let me change my settings and be like, you know what? You can't do this for 30 seconds. I don't want to live in a country where we can't say, it's time for me to watch the next episode. I'll click over to that now. If you need someone to spoon feed you the next episode or the next movie before you've come to the conclusion of the artistic statement that you were taking in, we're done as a nation. We're done as a country, if that's the case. You know what? I wonder what the actual calculation is here because I bet they don't want it to get too deep into the credits before you've already... They don't even want you to think.

1:04:03Yeah, they want us on the next thing. They want you on the next thing to keep you on the thing. It's ruining. And for shows, if you end on a cliffhanger, you're counting on the fact that somebody's like, I have to see what happened to this nurse in the pit. Start the next episode. Anything to add, Craig? It's anti-below-the-line. I want to see who lit the movie. Let me see their names. Who's the AD? Sorry, I care about these things.

1:04:24Bill Simmons:Stop telling us you actually care about the movie industry and you won't let us see closing credits for anything I watch. Who was Sal Amato's assistant on set? I want to know. It was the key grip. Really annoying. All right, we'll take a break and then come back with Vans Flex. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Ads. Ever invest in something that seemed incredible at first, but didn't live up to the hype? Well, marketers know the feeling. They optimize for the numbers that look great. Impressions, reach, reacts. But when they don't show revenue, well, that's not such a great conversation with the CFO.

1:04:59Bill Simmons:LinkedIn has a word for that, bull spend. Instead, why not invest in what looks good to your CFO? LinkedIn ads generates the highest ROAS of all major ad networks. Reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. You can target by company industry, job title, and more. So cut the bull spend. Advertise on LinkedIn, the network that works for you. Spend$250 in your first campaign on LinkedIn ads. Get a$250 credit. For the next one, just go to linkedin.com slash rewatchables. terms and conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by the active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in.

1:05:40Bill Simmons:Earn unlimited 2 % cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game and grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2 % cash rewards on purchases. Say it with me. The active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. Be a two percenter. Learn more at wellsfargo.com forward slash active cash. terms apply. Ruffalo, Hannah Rubinick, Partridge, overacting word. Kenny the drummer? When are you gonna wake up? I had Joey Pants. What are you getting so mad at Word Man for? He really goes for it. He's like, this is my one scene. I'm gonna get really mad at with Joey. You guys are gonna like it.

1:06:15I have Eddie whenever they're not on stage. Oh. Whenever they're not on stage. Just going for it? Eddie is just fucking going for it. He puts his whole body into when he shoved, what you call it. Whenever they're not on stage, Eddie is dialing it up in the middle of it, man. My favorite part of that Kenny scene is when he's like, you remember those days in the backseat of a car balling some chick and then your song comes on? I should put balling and what stage is the best. Balling some chick. When was the last time balling was said? It was funny. And then they cut to the audience and all the guys in the audience are like, yeah, I remember that.

1:06:52That's Chris and Sean. You remember back in the day we were balling some chick, the watch comes on?

1:06:59Van, you have a flex. All right, so it's a list. Top five fictitious bands ever. Okay. I do not have Eddie and the Cruisers in this just because we're doing the movies. Number five is Josie and the Pussycats. Okay. You got to count them. Iconic shit. Number four, I got the wonders, man. I'm a That Thing You Do truther. Punch it in. Yeah, like I love that movie. It's almost lost time. nobody talks about it as much as they should. Should we add it to the list? I think it's a really good rewatchable.

1:07:30Bill Simmons:Okay. Yeah, I love that movie. Number three, Spinal Tap. Gotta have Spinal Tap in there. Rest in peace, Rob. Number two, The Five Heartbeats. Okay. Now, this is an underrated, fictitious band. The music is fantastic. Robert Townsend. Robert Townsend. Shout out to him. The story is very reminiscent of Temptations, obviously, but they're amazing. The music was amazing, too. I like that movie number one for me Stillwater Stillwater from Almost Famous fantastic they they sound like a real band yeah they have the real band chemistry and angst Stillwater can I ask a follow up question good lead singer presence too by Jason Lee no forget the movies that those bands are in best music of a fictitious band so to me it would be excuse me the five heartbeats The Wonders Eddie and the Cruisers Yeah They gotta be They gotta be up there And the Stillwater stuff Is awesome to me It sounds kind of like Stillwater's really good I just don't think Fever Dog is as good Of a signature song As Dark Side Dark Side Yeah Or that thing you do Yeah that's fair It was a good list I wanna like nitpick And say you missed one But I can't think of one That you missed So there was one thing That I couldn't really Decide I went back and forth With Kimberg about this Is The revolution in Purple Rain.

1:08:56Doesn't count. Okay, because he's not playing Prince. No, it doesn't count. I think they're called...

1:09:01Bill Simmons:Because Wendy and Lisa are in his other band. Everybody has the regular names. The time is in it. But we couldn't decide whether or not that was technically a fictitious band or not. Because if they are, they're obviously number one. Yes, we just did an 80s soundtrack. And the time doesn't count either. Yeah. The only one I would add to it is Sex Bomb from Scott Pilgrim. Scott Pilgrim. Yeah. That's a fucking Miss by Van. Yeah. What about the Matt Damon band in Euro Trip? Scotty doesn't know. Scotty doesn't know. Dan Band, real band, right? The Dan Band? Oh, hey, that's my bike. Yeah. Hey, that's my bike from Reality Bites.

1:09:39Oh, yeah, yeah,

1:09:40Bill Simmons:yeah. That's a good one. Oh, CB4. So we never see Citizen Dick in singles. We just hang out with them. But they are mud honey. So, they're pretty good. Yeah. Wait, wait a minute. Oh, yeah, no, they're the only fictitious band in singles. Because everybody else is like Alice in Chains. They never perform though. They do Touch Me I'm Sick. Touch Me I'm Sick. Touch Me I'm Dick, yeah. We see them on stage doing it? No, we just hear their record. Yeah, yeah. We don't see it though. Touch Me I'm Dick. That's a good one. CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest take award. I don't know how hot of a take this is, but if this movie had two more great songs in it, what happens?

1:10:22Bill Simmons:does this become Grease? The level to which Grease is better than this movie is difficult to articulate. So no. I mean Grease is better in every way. I'm aware. Except for everyone in the movie is 38 years old playing high school kids. Yeah. True. So would you want another song that was like Dark Side or do you feel like we needed like another Joanne solo song? Well I was going to do this later for either nitpick or unanswerable, but you assume all the songs we hear on the dark side, Tender Years, they're all on some album, right? They're on Tender Years. That gets released in 63. Yeah, they're on Tender Years.

1:11:02Bill Simmons:We don't know anything about the release of that album, how well the songs did, how famous were they, did they get to go on the Ed Sullivan show? No. We know nothing. We only know that they're back in the studio that they got$10 ,000 to do their album after it. We don't know if John and Paul saw Eddie and the Cruisers on TV and were like, Did they start the Beatles? We should start the Beatles. Right. But there's this whole missing section. So Craig asked, like, I love that this movie's done in five minutes. I actually agree with him. I think you could maybe cut out seven minutes and add. I just want to know what happens when the album comes out.

1:11:40Bill Simmons:And did it make them more successful? Did one of the songs become a top song? And then could we have heard another song during that whole stretch? Here's my take on that. is that most records in the early 60s like that were a collection of singles for the most part. Yeah. And so like I think that those songs were probably like a collection of like the 10 things that they were playing that were the biggest original songs that they had when they were playing live. But it wasn't like, here's our LP. It was like songs people were pretty familiar with. So was the dark side on Tender Years? Yeah. I thought Frank helps them write Dark Side.

1:12:14Frank knew them before Tender Years? I bet they don't do Dark… I don't think they did 10 years until after he had been in the band for a while. So then what did Sal mean then when he was like, we were doing just fine without you? Because I think he was like, we were just playing bars doing runaround suit. They were already moving. But 10 years took them to a whole nother level. I know, but it seems like that... It was uncalled for from Sal. Yeah, from Sal. It feels like that word man joining the band was the final piece to them becoming like a mainstream kind of successful band. But to your point, we don't know how successful.

1:12:46if there's one more

1:12:47Bill Simmons:great song in this movie I think it I think something different can I do a hottest take piggybacks off of this which is that the best part of this movie which is also like the thing that I think fucks this movie up is that they play Darkseid first and it's out of context of the entire movie they just play the best song that these guys have to open the film yeah and even though that happens at the college which we know is a dark moment for the band if you make us wait to hear Darkseid and you get to see them do the big full band version of Darkseid after you've seen them write it, it blows the fucking top off the movie.

1:13:25It's so much better. But that would denote that the movie had a regular story structure, which it doesn't because it really is not that conservative.

1:13:33Bill Simmons:So that's where if you had that extra great song, that song leads the movie, and then it all leads to Darkseid, which is their biggest song. But if the movie starts with Tender Years… Oh, you can start it with that. I guess, but I think people would be like, yeah, it's a pretty good song. But it starts with Darkseid, you're like, whoa. holy fucking shit. This is pretty good. You know what? To your question, though, at the beginning of the movie, I guess, is when they frame how successful of a band that they've become. Yeah. She's trying to talk about... But even as she's doing it, she's almost informing them of how big they were.

1:14:05It's not like they had... It's not like they were like, oh my God, it's Darkseid from Eddie and the Cruisers. It's still kind of ambiguous to a degree.

1:14:12Bill Simmons:There's a talk show, five minutes, them going on a talk show or... an Ed Sullivan type show that could have been in this movie. That would have been fun. Did you have a high stick? I do. I think Word Man tried to kill Eddie. I think he actually killed the saxophone player. I think this entire movie He cooked up a hot shot for Wendell? I think he did. That's why he lived in a trailer. To your point, there's no way he didn't know. I think actually his jealousy because I watched this movie it doesn't make any sense. He's openly trying Word Man's fucking crazy guys. He's openly trying to fuck with Eddie's girl.

1:14:47Can you imagine? We all work together. We're a band. Can you just imagine we're at like, I don't know, a ringer party or something like that and I'm just over there with one of y 'all's wives trying to figure out what the fuck is up? Like, this shit is, it blows my mind every time I watch this. My dad used to fucking hate it. Also,

1:15:06Bill Simmons:maybe she didn't, Eddie didn't make her toast, girl. Van is really onto something because if you come to the end and it turns out Word Man is the one who's been flipping people's apartments up and down. And it's Kaiser Soze. And he did his own. The reason why he didn't get upset when he saw his apartment is because he's like, I know I did it. Oh, you have the Kaiser Soze ending at the end? Yeah. Where he's just like, all I wanted was the tapes to get out of there so I could get out of my dumb teacher job. Guys, let me tell you something. In Eddie and the Cruisers 2, Eddie is performing music, but he still refuses to let people know that he is Eddie.

1:15:41He's like, I'm Joe West. He's Joe West, right? Do you know why? because he's fucking scared of Word Man. The whole reason why Eddie has gone into hiding. Is that true? I haven't seen Eddie in the Cruises. Eddie lives in a long time. Yeah, he's a pseudonym. But is he scared of Word Man? No, this is in my brain. He's scared of Word Man because he knows Word Man tried to kill him, which is why he's hiding. This whole thing, Word Man is fucking crazy. So when we see Eddie

1:16:03Bill Simmons:at the end of Eddie in the Cruises, there's one walking away. Word Man's behind him with a weapon. Word Man is stalking him. But you don't see it because Amazon has already caught to the next Harry Potter season 7. casting what ifs Parade claims they were ready to replace him with Rick Springfield oh that's interesting and that he had to do that first concert where he had to lip sync all the songs and act like Eddie and if he sucked they were gonna replace him and Rick Springfield admitted that he did he did think about trying to get the part would've been cool instead he lives on in Jesse's Girl in Boogie Nights that ends up being his legacy even though we don't see him if Rick was in it it would've been a box office success I bet a little bit more people will not see it Parade was discovered in a New York City restaurant working as a chef so still hope for Dave Chang even in his mid-40s he might still be an actor weird one this isn't a casting one if but one of the people in the opening scene that when Maggie's telling them about Rimbo Scott the mustache Barry Sand he was an original Letterman producer in the first five years of the show and was on camera a lot really And I never understood why he was in this movie.

1:17:15Bill Simmons:It's really strange. I mean, that's like a deep, deep Letterman cut. That's the NBC stuff. Only you can grab that. But it was just fucking weird. It would be like if Daniel Kellison was in the movie, just randomly, just in a scene. Best that guy, Joey Pants, not eligible. John Stockwell is in this, the lead guy from Christine and also in Top Gun. He's the guy that knows. He's Wizard from Top Gun, yeah. Oh, yeah. The werewolf, I can't remember. But the winner is Mitchell Lawrence. Yeah, for sure. Matthew Lawrence as a Mitchell Lawrence was his brother twin brother right yeah twin brother okay Matthew Lawrence yeah not Mitchell Lawrence Matthew Lawrence also now does or did sports talk radio in Lexington Kentucky wow how many episodes does David Silver's dad on 90210 do you think if you had to guess how many episodes is what was he on 90210 no yeah 36 oh you're basically on the show at that point yeah Yeah, they did over 200 shows.

1:18:12What we've never talked about is a now-to-and-oh parent ranking, because you have— He's the best one. What about Dylan's fucking dad? Dylan's dad was the man. Who played Dylan's dad? That guy. We've seen this guy. That guy. Jack McKay. Yeah, like Jack McKay was the man. He's shady. What is it? Blew up, though. Should have looked out for his family better. But he was like some kind of fucking mobster or something like that.

1:18:35Bill Simmons:I would have thought you would have liked David Silver's dad, because he was like constantly messing around with the dental assistants. You don't like Brandon and Kelly? Brandon and Kelly's parents got on my nerves. Yeah, they were terrible. They got on my nerves. The whole family I didn't enjoy. Actually, my favorite was Kelly Taylor's mom because she had the drug problem and was kind of always on the fringe. And then also Steve's mom because she was like famous. Yeah, famous. She was kind of cool. Dionne Waiter's award Ellen Barkin unless you want to give it to the I didn't pay for a bunch of jerk-offs and they could wear it sounds.

1:19:07Bill Simmons:No, I think Parkin'. Recasting Couch Director City. Can I offer you Michael Keaton as Kenny the drummer just randomly being in this movie? Yeah, I'd take that. That's good. It's like a year after Night Shift just looking for work still. Yeah. Gets this big scene playing as a blackjack dealer. It's going crazy. I like it when Kenny puts the comic book down and just gets on a kit and just immediately just like lays into it. The Van Lathan Award for Did this movie need more black people? No, we were treated poorly. But no, it doesn't. Perfect. And that's another thing about these 80s movies. Don't fucking put it, not where we, just do the thing.

1:19:44Okay? Just do the thing. It's a white band with a black saxophone player. It's a white band, black saxophone player. That's cool. You know what I'm saying? We don't need to just, it's fine. I'm telling you, it's fine. Craig has a flex category. I did it.

1:19:56Bill Simmons:It was the Bam Adebayo to Sal Amato. Oh, yeah, you did. Where the fuck did that come from? Him at the nightclub. First time somebody did Bam Adebayo is a flex category. The 83-point game. It's going to live on forever. Half I started research. Berenger said he did not try to learn piano. Did practice some keyboards in his trailer. Well, he read Big's chilled dialogue. Is that a euphemism? Yeah. Frecks and keyboards. Don't bother me. Matthew Lawrence did learn how to play the bass.

1:20:24Bill Simmons:Parade remembers that when they all played together, it was a little like Stillwater. It was a college concert. The extras were into it. Everybody was going nuts, and they were really pretending they were the band. and then the Palace of Depression was a real place in Vineland, New Jersey. It does not exist anymore. Fraternity House was at Haverford College. Where's that? Outside of Philly. Tony Martz was an actual place until the early 80s and then demolished. And then we didn't mention this. Joanne, played by Helen Schneider, was a pretty famous German music star in the 70s and 80s. A lot of success, apparently.

1:21:04I kind of like and wish there was like 10 % more of her losing it a little at the end. She's like, I have to get ready. Eddie's here. And it's like kind of glorious wants something out. And I'm like, oh, yeah, do more of that. Like she's been hanging on, waiting for this call for 20 years. That's great. Like you go in her room and it's just all weird. Eddie stuff. Eddie mannequin shit. Eddie voodoo dolls.

1:21:26Bill Simmons:Fake Eddie. Did some research on him. John Cafferty? Or the Eddie that was with Salamato? The Eddie with Salamato. played by Joey Balin who put out an album in 1994 if you want to download it on your way home the Joey Balin's solo work Apex Mountain Michael Perret definitely oh wait I had one more half-assed internet research in that same Washington Post article that I mentioned Berenger claims that they filmed a scene in a roadhouse with the cruisers watching the Beatles on Ed Sullivan and making fun of it and he has like a whole thing he talks about and then after this quote but Martin Davidson's like, we never shot that.

1:22:05That's fair to full shit. But I really like the idea that they at least thought about the Beatles in this movie. Yeah.

1:22:12Bill Simmons:I love when there's like violent disagreements like that. Yeah. It just goes to show you like people were probably using substances while making it. Like they were fucking high as shit. Yeah. I mean, it was 1983. Apex. That's why the Grantland oral history will never happen. Because of the amount of drugs we're on? No, because of 20 years later, people can just start making up shit. Right. like Bill came back from the all-star game and he got in this huge fist fight with CR just like after 20 years you overrate submarine movies dickhead Apex Mountain Michael Perey yes Tom Berger no Ellen Barkin no Matthew Lawrence I'm gonna say David Silver's dad probably that show's pretty big yeah Beaver Brown Band yes Jersey Shore movies no but I also can't come up with a better one I'm going to get killed for this for not knowing.

1:23:07Do you claim the Jersey Shore? What's your relationship with the Jersey Shore? It's like the summer destination for most of Philadelphia. But I don't know of a better Jersey Shore movie than this. They've really figured it out

1:23:19Bill Simmons:as a great location. Yeah, I mean, not a movie, obviously, but the Jersey Shore. Yeah, yes. The show is probably... Oh, the show. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously. Did you like that show? No, of course not. Did you ever hang out with those people during your early Hollywood days? I saw a couple of them. I think... Do you in this situation ever go party with that? I see a couple of them. No, I never liked that show. As a matter of fact, that show to me is when I realized, oh, you know, I don't have to fucking like what everybody else likes. It never made it grotesque in a way. Wow, that got dark. No, no, I just...

1:23:50I never understood it. I get it. Everybody was so into it. I never liked it either. No, everybody was so into it. I loved it for two years. See, I just never... Everything else that had come from MTV like fucking road rules challenge all that stuff for some reason Jersey Shore just never fucking Arthur Rimbaud I think that he's had bigger moments than this

1:24:10Bill Simmons:yeah Helen Schneider sounds like Germany was pretty hopping yeah what happened? you would have thought that she'd have been around she was like what? went back to Germany interesting 1957 Chevy's probably not Cruiser Hanks what about Hanks as word man? I had Cruiser Hanks as Eddie because Cruz has priors of doing the Outsiders. Do you have Cruz as Eddie? Cruz as Eddie. He basically played a greaser in the Outsiders and that's kind of the way Eddie dresses. Like, Eddie is just full Outsider. Oh, Craig's all in on this one. Eddie and the Cruisers. Come on. Oh, come on! What are you doing? Okay. That makes a lot of sense.

1:24:48And I think you could actually, this is one of the rare times where you could do Cruz as Eddie and Hanks as Frank. Mm-hmm.

1:24:56Bill Simmons:Scorsese or Spielberg. Yeah. I have Scorsese's. Scorsese's. Tri-state area. Best hang, worst hang. Best hang, Sal. You know, he has pizza, fun dressing room. Best hang is absolutely Maggie. Like, I got Ellen Barkin as the best hang. Good point. Yeah. I gotta add Maggie. I got Ellen Barkin as the best hang. I got worst hang, Sal. Well, how come? Just talking about the old days? No, Sal. I had Doc as the worst hang. When you think about it. Doc. Doc's a tough hang. Sal, you come in there, he offers you a slice of pizza. He sits down, the pizza's in his hand, he never fucking eats it, right? Yeah.

1:25:32He's just hanging off. He's always fucking up. He's crying and sweating. He's crying, he's sweating, he's doing the whole thing. Word man, he's skeptical of word man, which is probably because he knew that word man was a psychopath. Yeah, right. Yeah, so like that. I think probably Kenny would be best thing. Yeah, tell him blackjack stories. Yeah, just talk about balling chicks. I busted these guys counting cards and then we balled in a car.

1:25:54Bill Simmons:Why didn't you have Maggie in the throw your life away area? that's a good question you took it out of flex but that's a really good one pickinets would there have been more interest in Eddie's disappearance or way more interest I feel like this would have been one of the bigger stories of 20 years I think that there is something to be said for how local news was back then so I think it would be a huge deal in New Jersey yeah and maybe get to Philly but I don't know if it cracks the big apple this speaks to the question of how big of a band they were because that's a part of it. However, they never found a body.

1:26:33Being that they never found a body, it's always funny in 80s movies where they go, something happened, a body was never found. People would never fucking let go of it. That's the D.B. Cooper thing. Don't know where he went or what happened to him.

1:26:46Bill Simmons:We mentioned Berenger's too old for word ban. We talked about word ban and Joanne kissing. So at the end, this is a super nitpick, but Media Magazine's doing their big feature on Eddie and the Cruisers and Eddie Wilson, how brilliant he was. And they're showing video of him at the college concert. How were they filming that in 1963? Full color video with close-ups is what I had. Probably no full color video with close-ups and editing at the 1963 spring dance of Benton College. There were nine cameras apparently there, but they're showing the crowd there's no cameras. It's like Sunday Night Football.

1:27:22Bill Simmons:Yeah, pretty tough. Come on, man. You're not stinking that by me after I've seen this movie 78 times. I love it. I agree. Any other nitpicks? Just that the one bit we hear of Season in Hell is pretty vanilla compared to like they were like this mind-blowing avant-garde noise. You can't put it out. It's like this is just a slow blues song. Like this is not that complicated. I guess my big nitpick that I've always had is like is Wordman fucking Mozart? Like how you learn to play piano that fast? Wordman's fucking around. He's knowing what he's doing. All of a sudden he's playing piano. He's got solos.

1:27:56No. Warman knew how to play piano, didn't he? Yeah, he has the piano solo earlier. I'm talking about earlier. If I'm not... Doesn't Eddie... No, no, no. Eddie's showing him rock chords. Oh, so he already knew how to play piano. So he's like, I know how to do it. But Eddie's like, no, you have to groove down at this end of the keyboard. That's why I love this podcast. I've thought that for 30 years. No. It's not the movie for nitpicks, sure.

1:28:24Bill Simmons:I don't think any of these people would have hung out like this band makes no sense as humans outside of the band oh I think Sal and Joey Pants would have hung out yeah and that's it that's it yeah sequel, prequel, prestige TV all black cast are untouchable so prestige TV I think you could do this and you'd probably make it an 80s band and you set it in 2000 or maybe you make it like the strokes like that era early 2000s New York and then it's like today. Coming back today. Yeah. Where it's like the... Some song has gotten big on TikTok. Yeah. Think about what we already did. This is begging, begging to be like a Tupac situation.

1:29:09Begging to be like some big prestigy deal where some rapper that we thought was killed in a beef bag, but he's alive in the whole nine. This is begging to be remade with that exact spin to it. There is...

1:29:21Bill Simmons:You would do it with the yeah, yeah, yes. because you change it and make it a female singer. The coolest thing to do would be to like basically try to Blair Witch it where you're like, we've discovered these tapes. Oh. And it's like, and now this band, like it would be basically like a viral marketing campaign. Blair Witch crossed with Eddie and the Cruisers. That's pretty good. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Fergie the Flores? Let's do it. So many others. Or Zane Lowe? Eddie, man. Here you are. You've just seen your own face on Media Magazine, the lovely Maggie reporting it out. Season in hell never even came into fruition, never came to harvest, never came to flowering.

1:30:02But you, what have you been doing, man, since Palace of Depression? Tell me, take me to the palace and let's get out of this depressive zone.

1:30:13Bill Simmons:I'm so glad Zane finally got to talk to a musician instead of a cop. Bring me back to Tony Mark that day. The other option would be Zayn interviewing Wendell but like Wendell doesn't say anything back. Wendell man you played with you played with Dexter Gordon now you're on Chunk. And Wendell's like no one's ever asked me a direct question. Oh man. Just what Oscar who gets it? Soundtrack or original song? I go original song Dark Side. I'll give you best music original song that year. winner was Flashdance What a Feeling by the one and only Irene Cara oh man banger fame Irene Cara tough nude scene for her in fame saw fame recently really emotionally scarring as a 10 year old yeah he's like now take your shirt off that creepy photographer guy yeah do you like fame yeah I do fame like well at first I watched the TV show first that was the first thing I saw the TV show then I went back and watched I saw fame in the theater probably a little too early probably age 10 You know fame?

1:31:20Bill Simmons:Really good idea for a movie. I'm actually surprised they haven't run that back. Are you a Flashdance fan? Not totally. Maniac from Flashdance was also nominated. Over You from Tender Mercies. And then two Yentl songs. I feel like we could have snuck in. Dark Side? Dark Side in there. And maybe bump the second best Yentl song. That would be incredible if it was like Academy Award winning Eddie and the Cruisers. Probably unanswerable questions. What happened to Media Magazine? Maggie moves on to where? I think she... Did she get that, like, doing, like, Live at Five in New York City, replaced with Sue Simmons?

1:32:02Maybe she moves up to People or Newsweek or Time. Did Eddie always... And then gets lung cancer? Yeah. So my question is, did Eddie always pull out or did his boys not swim? How did she not get pregnant? Who? His girl. Joanne? Yeah, Joanne. They're on the road all together. Music filled. Lusty lovemaking. Falling in the back of a car. Falling in the back of a car. This entire baby.

1:32:25Bill Simmons:Not a lot of sex because he was so driven by the art. That's why she was looking at the word man. That's why she got with word man. But something doesn't make a lot of sense how there was no like Eddie baby at some point. Yeah, one of my possible answerable questions was just like, what did word man think was going to happen when he shows up after his long date with Joanne? And he's like, is it time for us to play? like of course Eddie's gonna fuck with you now right yeah yeah yeah Toby Tyler got off easy yeah what did Doc sell the tapes for and what happened next this is unanswerable the musicals you want Neo uh it's like I think it's a I think it is anticlimactic I think people are like this isn't that good I like I'd prefer Darkseid and it just doesn't go anywhere does it come out on 8 track in 83 what were those things not the seat but between cassettes and CDs.

1:33:16Bill Simmons:8-tracks. 8-tracks. I think the 8-track is dead by 83 though, right? I think it's still around in 83. That was the last year. Yeah, like cassettes, right? No cassettes. I don't think Season in Hell does that well. Me neither. I think it's a big bust and Doc probably is arrested for fraud in some way. How do they position it? Do they do music videos where they get like, because this is the age of the video that's starting to happen. They don't, but the Cruisers are around anymore. They have all that incredible footage of Eddie and the Cruisers playing Benton College. They can use some of that. Secret handshake club memorabilia that you'd want from this movie.

1:33:49Bill Simmons:I like the photo of Joanne with the two guys that's in her place. It's a weird one to just have on the wall right now. People are like, what the fuck is that? And the Cruisers, 1983. That's the original staff of Grantland. Coach Finstock, Mr. Miyagi were for best worst life lesson. Guys like me and you, they strike oil into your garden and all you get is dead tomatoes. Oh, shit. I thought that was pretty good by you. By Salamato. Philosopher. That's good. If we can't be great, then there's no sense in ever playing music again. Best double feature choice, That Thing You Do? Mm-hmm. Who won the movie?

1:34:28Bill Simmons:Beaver Brown Band? And they're still dining on this 40 years later. HBO. Hmm. Good call. HBO. I was entertaining Paré. But I think you're right. I think it's Beaver Brown Band. because those songs still get played. Those guys still probably make money off this. Craig, let's hear it. Had a great time. Loved it. Super likable. Did you watch it with Liz or Solo? I tried to get her. I badgered her to watch the movie with me and she wasn't interested unfortunately. Just not. She doesn't care as much about The Ringer as she used to. I was like 15 minutes in and I was like this would be fun. We can just throw this on and you can like half watch it.

1:35:06She didn't want to do it and I think she would have liked it. You should have told her

1:35:09Bill Simmons:there was like some sort of ad potential out of it. She would have done it at that point. Yeah, there's a great sponsorship. Bill's actually in this movie. I was almost certain you'd hate it. No. No, I knew he was going to like it. First of all, 95 minutes, you're 80 % of the way there with Craig. Yeah, like music provides such a high floor. Like you're just going to win 48 games with a couple good songs in it. Yeah. And I don't know, there's a level of like how much you take the movie seriously and then that allows you to be comfortable and enjoy it. Yes. Which is why I think like I went into LA Confidential and I don't think I loved it as much as everybody else did but the expectation versus reality What are you saying now?

1:35:45Bill Simmons:I didn't I liked LA Confidential I didn't love it I don't know You need to watch it a couple times I don't know why LA Confidential? First watch there's a lot going on You know what? I thought it was a little cheesy Can I be honest with you? I get it It will be hard for me to understand that because the movie was legitimately the biggest fucking thing in the world Everybody was talking about it And you saw it eight times And I saw it eight times I saw it in the theater And you didn't go into it being like This is Chinatown You know what? That was that was a boomer response. I could see that. I could see now it being a little tougher people.

1:36:14Also with this movie, I love, I do, I've always been interested in like the second album theory of a band, you know, I always find that to be interesting. There's a little bit of like Pet Sounds to this. Brian Wilson, Eddie Wilson. Sure. With the Beach Boys and like the controversial Pet Sounds album, nobody liked it and then, you know, down the road it is a masterpiece. This movie. People liked Pet Sounds. It was like Wild Honey or whatever the next one. I thought Pet Sounds was considered very abstract. Oh no, it has a good vibe I mean it's abstract but it was like it blew up I thought it came out the gate and was not reviewed well oh okay you would know better I mean Pemberton is like that from Weezer like albums that come out and people go what the fuck are you doing and they but is this Pinkerton was like this is amazing what the fuck is Pemberton is this kind of movie the 80s equivalent of like a current Netflix movie like Gaslit by My Husband which I have great disdain for a movie like that nowadays but I'm like is that just what this was in the 80s I know you know what Bill was like what's the double feature in a weird way I feel like the double feature for this movie should be Legend of Billie Jean because it's kind of like the same kind of like regional local sensation huge story in my town but wouldn't have wouldn't have made it out to like LA where people were like that's a good point and I think I think it's hard to almost replicate that now because of social media it's just weird that like this movie has looked like you guys are looking back on it with like charm and nostalgia but I feel like a lot of the current Netflix movie slop or the streaming movie slop is not looked at that way.

1:37:43Nobody honors those films in any way and they will disappear even if people watch them. But these movies we look back on and we're like, Eddie and the Cruiser is such a fun, easy watch. But no one's going to do that to Gaslit by My Husband. Yeah, but we don't know what would happen with some of those movies if there were only seven movies on Netflix and they played them for a year. I would say give Gaslit by My Husband a chance. To me, the difference in that is that those movies, you, first of all, you have to be active in watching those films. You have to go search for the movie and then put it on.

1:38:13That right there means that there had to be a reason for you to do that, right? People weren't doing that to this movie. It was on HBO. Didn't it just come on? We didn't have as much other stuff to do. People barely had Atari 2600s back then. With Gasly by My Husband or any of these other movies, there's this cultural conversation that gets you to go watch the movie because you heard it. With Eddie and the Cruisers, there's none of that. I never had one conversation this is the first conversation I've ever had with friends about Eddie and the Cruisers ever my only one was only my mom because my mom loved this movie we talked about it a lot my dad would watch it my dad would be like watching them saying people again why don't people always on TV but like it's like this movie was just on all the time and you just had a situation with it it was almost like

1:38:53Bill Simmons:you know what I would compare it to you know if you listen to an album a lot and you listen to it like 20 times and then like the 8th best song in the album you're like song's fucking awesome yeah I really like this. I love when that happens. When there's that song where you're like, I don't know about this one. Does that happen anymore? Because these songs are just all released almost like you can cherry pick them on Spotify now. I'm going to keep it real with you. I don't know that it does. I don't think it happens. Because I don't think the albums last long enough for that to happen. I think that the artists are dropping music so much.

1:39:27You're getting so much more stuff. I don't think that that happens. I think it happens here and there. The Geese record's a good example of my original run through it I was like I love these five songs then there was like two more three more that became really favorites of mine it's also crazy how much Hollywood screwed up like I can't believe that John Cafferty and the Beaver like the fact that they didn't turn into anything is insane to me it might have been because of the band name and it might have been because people were like you're Eddie and the Cruisers I mean there's like a little bit of like a poison chalice to that that song you said was number three in the Billboard charts that year?

1:39:59seven? like a legitimate hit in a monocultural time we're in a different completely different world now but like nobody even knows who the singers are of the K-pop Demon Hunter songs and yet that's like the biggest band in the world literally no one knows who sings it and yet they knew this band and these people and they couldn't get them relevance and they couldn't get them another album

1:40:16Bill Simmons:that's crazy to me same thing happened to Eddie when Jacko and House were here like a year ago you told me this was on TCM and I recorded it let's tape it yeah and we watched it in the morning and we were all like completely into it I don't know I just think that I don't think there's a lot of these movies, which is one of the reasons why it's endured a little bit. There's just not enough music movies. If there are, like, or if they're in the works, I think all of it is based on whether the song, like, there's... And whether you like the band, right. Well, think about, like, Rock of Ages with Cruise was a bomb.

1:40:51Yeah. It's so stupid, though. Like, you know what I mean? Like, this... That movie almost doesn't take itself seriously. This movie takes itself incredibly seriously.

1:41:00Bill Simmons:Yeah. Like, you get the... There's a sincerity about this. Maybe it's... Obviously not perfect, but there's a sincerity about the movie. Would you watch a movie about done love story JFK Jr. style about Lenny Kravitz falling in love with Lisa Bonet? We'd love it. We'd get all Lenny's music. The entire thing would love it. That'd be a good idea. Zoe Kravitz plays Lisa Bonet? Oh, shit. You like that type of shit. I'm into that. It's a good idea, right? I'm into Lisa Bonet. I'm into Zoe Kravitz and Lisa Bonet, sure. Everyone loves Lenny Kravitz. I don't even mind that I don't like the NBA, NBC song.

1:41:32Bill Simmons:You don't mind that you don't like it? I just… I'm never going to be mad at Lenny Kravitz for anything. All right. CR month. It's no longer CR month. That's okay, man. The little chocolate right after. Yeah. Those little gum things. What's the one that's got the… There's like different ones that they'll bring out. Well, they've got the mints. You know, chocolate-covered mints is usually… I feel like that's lazy when the restaurants do that. Okay. I like when I felt like the dessert chef made me something. I feel like they prepared something for me it's true that's it I don't know what's coming next week this was fun good to see you Ben of course good to see you see you guys in San Francisco if you're oh yeah oh yeah San Francisco two days from now if this will come out on a Monday we're there Wednesday yeah I'll do the I'll do the little intro for that but yeah we're gonna be doing Basic Instinct the three of us with Mallory at the Tony Rempe Theater yeah I think that's doesn't that guy play for the Rangers San Francisco Tony Remington hit like 280 last year yeah we will be there in San Francisco thanks to Gahal thanks to Eduardo as well and we'll see you next week in the Rewatchables