‘F1’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

22:31I mean if you look at it like just for the movies that he's in, World War Z ended up being a movie that was kind of a trouble production as well. And it was a huge hit. But that's a big, huge movie. It's like a gigantic film.

22:43Bill Simmons:How many times have you watched it? Probably like three. Two or three? The zombies are really aggressive in it. It's not the easiest watch. I wasn't a fan. The outbreak starts in Philly. Yeah. But look, the big short, he's in that. He's an interesting... That's towards the end of the time that you're talking about, though. But he's in interesting films here. Inglourious Bastards, Benjamin Button. These are interesting movies. He's having an interesting career. Burn After Reading. That's an interesting choice for Brad Pitt at that time in his career. He has that same Redford quality of like, you could just kind of throw him in anything and it's probably going to work.

23:18Bill Simmons:It's fun to hang out with him. Paul Newman was like that. It's that kind of actor we just don't have anymore. And this is, you know, he's playing a guy in his early 50s, but he's really in his early 60s. He's doing...

23:34It's interesting to me always to see what performers like this do with that little wilderness period. So like the part that's right over, you guys know what I'm talking about. You know, you're in the league. You're averaging 29, 30. You'd already made like a bunch of awesome movies. Yeah, and then like when you get down to 26, 25, 24, how they navigate that point until they become elder statesmen. Oh my God, look, they're taking a chance. How they navigate that is always interesting.

24:04Bill Simmons:Cruz just went into franchises. Yes. but he really struggled for a while too yeah I think Damon's had the most interesting approach to it where he seems to make a combination of like big choices smart big things and then like kind of weird cool swings and just doesn't seem to care what hits and what doesn't can we come back to this real quick you think that Matt Damon is fucking with Brad Pitt in any way shape or form I think it's an interesting one because if you go if you go the seven I think the seven movies that Brad Pitt made over the last four decades that probably had the longest tail. Seven, Fight Club, Ocean's Eleven, Bastards, Moneyball, Once Upon a Time in F1.

24:47Bill Simmons:I think would be the seven. I'll hear that. So the question for me is, could Matt Damon top that with his best seven? I think if you're counting Odyssey next year. Which we can't because we haven't seen it. Let's just like for the sake of Martian. Born. like he's his 7 versus Pitt's 7 is a pretty good battle and they probably made the same amount of money and the same amount of movies and they have similar things where it's like they'll just be like I'm getting behind Kenneth Lonegdon or for Brad Pitt he gets behind Andrew Dominick or whatever yeah I think it's close they pick their directors and they what are you laughing at it's absurd you think no way Matt Damon is just not on Brad Pitt's level no I think Matt Damon you think I'm being a Boston homer of course I think I think Matt Damon I think Matt Damon Matt Damon is fantastic.

25:35Oscar winner. It's an Oscar winner. Matt Damon is fantastic. If you were to use those movies as a metric, you could probably pull out, I bet there's probably more people that if we talk about guys that have been around this long, you could probably, if you just pull seven movies, I bet you could also do that for Ben Affleck. I bet you could in terms of rap. If you just pull seven movies. But if you talk about the space that they take up in culture, how they're regarded, just overall how audiences respond to them, I think that Brad Pitt is in a different level than Matt Damon is. I forgot about Mr.

26:07Ripley. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Who do you think is a better actor? I think Matt Damon has a little bit more range. Me too. I think. But it feels more like a movie star. It's tough. It's like, I also think like...

26:21Bill Simmons:It's interesting in Ocean's Eleven, Pitt has kind of the more outsized role than Matt Damon does. They have very similar things going on where like every once in a while, they'll be like the supporting character in something. Like it's a really tough conversation. Hey, don't want to be argumentative. I just do not disagree. I just— I like when we argue. I don't like when we argue. I just— I think that if you look at— You hate Boston, it's fine. At the full— I can't wait for you. Well, never mind. The full range of the roles. Yeah. Like from 12 Monkeys all the way to cool leading man in F1. I don't know how we could say definitively— We could do that with Damon.

27:00We could do like Courage Under Fire

27:02Bill Simmons:or through Borens. Courage Under Fire. How about school ties? Yeah. How about school ties? Yeah. As we're talking about, okay. Anti-Semite 1940s football player. Who's better? Tough, tough, tough, tough role in getting character for for a guy from Boston. He had no one to study. Shots fired. Like he had no one to study. I'll be running to Matt Damon now. He's a fantastic performer. I'm just saying, I think Brad's probably, he's certainly a bigger movie star in my opinion but I also think that well I think the Angelina thing made him a bigger movie star though it wasn't until that happened that vaulted him into A plusdom whereas Matt on the other hand got married you'd never hear anything about him he's been married for like 20 years he's like intentionally low profile okay so Brad was like here I am I am dating the hottest actress we have off the back of dating Jennifer Aniston yeah right and Gwyneth Paltrow and whoever the only problem with this is also when we were talking about Brad Pitt's movies, we left out Mr.

27:59and Mrs. Smith. But the only problem with this is that they met on a film where they were together in that film and it was Brad Pitt as the star of this big, gigantic action movie. That would have been a good...

28:12Bill Simmons:How would Van Lathan get out of this one? Oh, you can't get out of it. You dating Angelina. You doing a movie with Angelina Jolie in 2004. That's actually... Where were you? I called you in your trailer. Oh, I went to get an espresso. I didn't hear the phone. Poor thing. I still feel bad for Jennifer Aniston after that. It's a tough one. It's a tough one. Speaking of Sonny... What was Sonny Hayes? Sonny Hayes. Great name. I made an... I wanted to move to Damson. The athletes that captured the decade the best, if we're going to make a list, going back to the 70s. Athletes in movies? Movie athlete.

28:51Bill Simmons:Okay. Nick Nolte in North Dallas 40. 70s. Grizzled football. China, tell us where football's going. 1980s, Ivan Drago, Rocky IV. Cold War. We'll do anything for an inch. Put more steroids in me. 1990s, it's either Rod Tidwell or Willie Beeman. I'm not sure who. Maybe Willie Beeman, but you could also talk me into Rod Tidwell. Okay. Realistic, the most realistic version of an athlete I've seen in a movie. Says something about the 90s in general. when you look back it's like that's a very 90s character. But also with a very three-dimensional character. Yeah. Like a family man and all of that stuff.

29:34Bill Simmons:My favorite sports movie character. 2000s. Tim Riggins. Any Given Sunday. Friday Night Lights? Yeah. I'm sorry. Friday Night Lights. I wrote down Any Given Sunday. Tim Riggins from the TV show? Yeah. Well, in the movie. Yeah, in the movie. Okay. Which one was Tim Riggins in the movie? Garrett Hedlund. Garrett Hedlund. Oh. Yeah. His dad. Yep. Tim McGraw comes up. putting the thing but then he comes up and puts the ring on his finger bro that that movie I know you guys are obsessed with the television show no the movie's great that movie is perfect bro it's the best halftime speech ever given like that that's a perfect what Pacino is pregame uh yeah I mean also I would put Billy Bob saying forever's about to happen like up against man he looks at those boys and without even raising his voice goes, you know, my heart.

30:27I got goosebumps. Like, my heart is full. I've done everything that I can do.

30:31Bill Simmons:It's Pacino and Billy Bob in the finals. Yeah, when is the miracle speech? I don't know when the last time you watched any given Sunday. Oh, I watch it regularly. It's kind of in the Pluto rotation right now. Just saying. Are you... It's been popping on Pluto. Do you have eyes for other free streaming services? Well, it's been on Pluto. To be. And the halftime... The pregame's great. and cutting to Fox and he starts moving toward Pacino. Great stuff. I have Riggins for here because movie and TV show. That was when we started to realize, oh, IP could be all over the place. 2010's Adonis Creed. 2020's Josh Pierce in F1.

31:15Bill Simmons:I love how they do the social. I think his whole backstory with his mom and his handler and how he's trying to basically be a star when he hasn't done anything yet, how he approaches his public persona. It's the best I've seen in a movie this decade, I think, for where we are in the 2020s with social media. We'll just have to wait for the Puka Nakua story.

31:43Bill Simmons:Vance trying to close the deal on it right now.

31:52Bill Simmons:but this Josh Pierce character on paper might have not worked and it worked really well so why did it work super charming obviously he's from like broke big with snowfall but I don't know he has a limited amount of screen time in this movie compared to Pitt like there's clearly like other stuff I think that they shot like a whole love interest with him that they left. Yeah, they cut it out completely. I didn't realize that. And the fact that you can still piece together who he is and he has to say things like, I had to climb a mountain to get here and really sell it. You know, like, that's basically his exposition.

32:29And it really works. He's a really, really dynamic performer. Character works for the same reason that the movie works. Like, the movie assumes that you know who he is. Which is why they could cut a lot of that stuff out. The movie assumes that you realize that it's tough for a kid coming from where he's from to achieve an F1. The movie even assumes that you understand his talent because we never really see it. They basically just tell us over and over and over again that he could be a great driver. Yeah. But we don't really get anything on screen to demonstrate that to us. But that character, that archetype of it's all right there in front of you, but you're distracted by bullshit.

33:11Yeah. The movie assumes you know that character. it's kind of interesting one of my favorite parts about this movie is that they're it's not like JP is Luke Skywalker and they're like we just need the right mentor right to get this kid it's like he's pretty good you know F1 is really like a lot about the car right as my understanding is that the cars are kind of like and it seems like the teamwork is important and the teamwork is important being the leader but it's like they only really bond once then they backslide and then they bond one last time and JP sacrifices for him.

33:44Bill Simmons:They do a great job with the morning jog. Continuing to come back to that, and there's more and more people, and then eventually JP's leading the jog, and it's like, they don't bang you over the head with it. That, to me, is why I say this is 80s and 90s moviemaking, and Kaczynski is so good at this stuff. It's because you usually just have that scene. You used to have that scene of somebody getting up in the morning, stretching, and they're doing it by themselves, and then all of a sudden somebody else is there, and you see it, rather than somebody having to give a long speech about the importance of togetherness.

34:15Yeah. And then by the end of it, you get that there's something that happened between all of these people that brought them together. We'll have to be belabored.

34:22Bill Simmons:Yeah, this movie's long, but I don't feel like it's long when I'm watching it. Even some of this dub pitches in his hotel room or whatever, flicking the cards. It kind of needs it. It has a nice, the right kind of pace to it. We'll talk about that later, flicking of cards. A lot of things I got to talk about. Five decades of Bruckheimer. I'm glad you're bringing this up. How many rewatchables do you think we've done of Jerry Bruckheimer? Ten? What do you think, Van? We've done 417 movies. This will be 418. Bruckheimer? Yeah. No, no. We've done four. No, no, no, no, no. Overall. So I'm saying, what, 15, 20?

35:0116th.

35:02Bill Simmons:Wow. Yeah. So we've done Gigolo, Thief, American Gigolo, Thief, Cop 1 and 2, Top Gun, Days of Thunder, Crimson Tide, Dangerous Minds, Bad Boys, Con Air, Face Off, Armageddon, Enemy of the State, Remember the Titans, and Top Gun Maverick, and F1. Fucking bangers. I feel like we should have a picture of him in the studio here. This is 80s, 90s, five decades of him. Yeah. And his 2010s weren't great. He's basically doing the Pirate sequels and Lone Ranger and then kind of gets his mojo back. Lone Ranger, yeah. So many people have gotten distracted, decided to become tech moguls. Yeah. Start political action committees, do whatever they're doing when they're movie producers.

35:46This guy's just like, I do one thing and I do better than anybody else in the world. It is, this movie is really a monument to producing from, when you think about the amount of money that must have changed hands to make this movie, the amount of negotiating that must have had to happen with all the different countries they're shooting in, with the strikes happening, with COVID restrictions, and Jerry Bruckheimer's got like fucking 15 new cameras inside of F1 cars.

36:10Bill Simmons:He's getting Apple to make him like these inch-sized cameras. I mean, it's just, that's what movie producers are supposed to do. Take some fucking lessons, man. Yeah, it's true. I look at him and I bet he calls movies pictures. And that's the kind of producers I like. I like when they say picture. We're working on a big picture here. Right. He's one of the last, one of the guys that says, hey, I'm getting Brad Pitt and Kaczynski together and we're doing this racing picture. Like, the guys that put shit together get shit done it's about putting guys together and letting them get their talents off on the screen and you'll do anything for the movie because of like the preponderant like the amount of visual effects and like the amount of stuff you can do inside of a computer now and also just because of the last couple of years in the industry when you watch movies now you're kind of like oh I can see they tried to save money here like for whatever reason like in any movie you didn't get this feeling once during F1 when you watch F1 you're like how much this fucking movie cost Jesus Christ But to be honest with you, though, if people out there are wondering what a good producer does, it's exactly what he's talking about.

37:17A movie that's well-produced, you cannot see the seams. That is what a well-produced movie is. A well-directed movie maintains the dramatic tension and the narrative from the beginning all the way to the end, with every scene kind of adding to that. A well-produced film, you can't see the seams. It's almost like he was like, let's spend more money. You know what I mean? And that's kind of cool. because you're like you're getting it back in your movie ticket you're getting it

37:40Bill Simmons:brokheimer's like yo Kaczynski gonna have to shoot that final scene in Saudi Arabia it looks like and we gotta put the sheiks in as we're hitting the trophy but we get an extra 15 million dollars to spend Kaczynski's like great it's for the picture it's for the picture great job by him there's a couple we haven't done from him we never did Flashdance we didn't do Black Hawk Down Quentin Tarantino's favorite movie in the 21st century yeah We didn't do Gone in 60 Seconds. And we didn't do Bad Boys 2, which we've discussed for like three years. Are you saving that? Yeah. We just haven't done it yet.

38:17When you guys do Black Hawk Down, because I'm not going to be on that one. When you guys do Black Hawk Down… You're not going to be on it because of… No, it's not my type of deal. But when you do…

38:25Bill Simmons:Will you be on the Oz Season 1 rewatch? I love that. Okay. But it should be you guys, and then you should bring in somebody from special operator YouTubes. is this one guy I watched is like Valhalla guy. He's a special operator. Do you guys follow what's going on in the special operator community? I actually probably do. Honestly, I'm surprised I don't know the guy you're referencing. Sierra and I have spent a lot of time in the Providence Reddit scene the last five days. I love listening to special operators talk about like what they need to be effective on a mission. If you guys do it, bring in a special operator to talk about it.

39:03Bring in Valhalla.

39:04Bill Simmons:The F1 stuff in this movie, based on the 2023 Formula One season filmed in 23 and 24, there was a bidding war in late 2021 for the movie. It had Pitt, Bruckheimer, Kaczynski, and Ethan Kruger, the guy who wrote it. Lewis Hamilton was a pretty... Aaron Kruger. Aaron Kruger. It's an interesting writer. It's an interesting collection of friends. My bad. Sorry, Kruger. Apple won the thing for$130,$140 million. Gave Pitt 30 of it. Pitten Damson did all the driving up to 180 miles an hour and then they tapped out after that I see Damson had to part of getting the role was him yeah he had to beat out and unfortunately this movie just happened so there's really no great casting what ifs for it so I'm just gonna there was apparently like a huge bunch of people trying to get in for the JP role yeah Aaron Kruger did Arlington Road Reindeer Games The Ring three Transformer movies and Top Gun Maverick.

40:02Bill Simmons:Yes. It's a good career. It's worth noting that on top of a whole bunch of other stuff. Is a, after the film, there is an additional literary contributions credit for Aaron Sorkin. Yeah, I saw that. Christopher Storer. Uncredited. Jez Butterworth and Kara Smith. Clean up some dialogue? I think... That's where you want to get to in life as a screenwriter. They're like, here's 500 grand. Can you just read this script and send us like 10 notes? Clean up a little dialogue. Hey, I've talked about it before. I can't... Arlington Road, underrated. I like it too. Kaczynski broke through. He'd been around for a while, but broke through with Top Gun Maverick in 22.

40:40Bill Simmons:He understands me, CR. Yeah. He knows what you like. He understands what I want. Yeah. He understands what I want in a movie, and he's done two of the only rewatchables ever that we've done in the same year the movie came out. We'll probably do another one when Miami Vice comes out. Oh. I mean, we'll be doing that from the theater. We'll just have Gal with a camera on. He's the only person who's ever made a movie that we've done the rewatchables the week it came out, right? Didn't we do Top Gun Maverick really soon after it came out? Yeah, because we both went nuts. Yeah. Also directed one of the greatest commercials of all time.

41:10What's that? You guys remember the Gears of War commercial where it was that R.E.M. song? What's the song? The song? No, Tears for Fear song. Oh, Everybody Wants the Ruler World? No, it's... Who makes this? I don't know who makes it. Hill Shelter? No, the song is called... We're just going to go through all these records. It's obviously a commercial that stayed with you. No, it's called Mad World. Mad World. Yeah, yeah. Mad World. Shut the fuck up. It's called Mad World. The Gears of War commercial. Yeah, yeah. He did that. Mad World. Yeah, but I think this is a really important movie for him because it's the...

41:42Now he is, to me, the big budget

41:46Bill Simmons:action guy. Yeah. Well,$200 million budget at least made over$600 million so far. It's at like 630 as we record this. So I think he's got a car podge now. Going to be the now flagship movie of Apple for five years, probably. Well, that's the other thing. And we could have put this in. Like every time you turn on Apple TV, the first thing you see is. It's still there. I went to go find it to rewatch it this week. And there it was just staring at me. I don't know what category that fits in for the rewatchables, but it gave Apple movie credibility that it just didn't have. It was a big bet. They were kind of, they felt like they were just stupid money.

42:24Bill Simmons:People taking advantage of them in some ways. and then this movie changed the calculus of it and then ended up with them getting F1 recently. The actual sport that is going to now be on Apple. So before this, Apple had put out the Ridley Scott one, Napoleon. Yes. I think that movie was, when you go and watch that film, first of all, it is, Ridley Scott is obviously fantastic, but the movie itself is just a mess. It seems like it's something that's overwrought, it's overspent, it's the entire deal. doesn't seem like there was actually real craft in the filmmaking there. It's precisely the type of movie that Apple would not want to make.

43:05Yeah. It looks like a film made by like a big streamer with no constraints on anything. And they had a few of those. And this movie looks like the opposite. It looks like a movie that even though they spent a ton of money, that everything was done with such care and such craft that it solidifies them as people who know how to make good films.

43:26Bill Simmons:Also, I think we've seen some success this year with we'll release the movie in the theaters for a few weeks and then it'll be on our service and we're going to win two A's because we saw it with one battle. We saw it with Sinners. We saw it with this movie. We saw it with weapons. This formula that people thought, well, that doesn't make sense. Why am I going to go see it in the theater if it's also going to be available for free? And it wasn't. So this was eighth worldwide in 2025. It was as big as Superman, Van. Yeah. Take that fucking Superman. That's an interesting development, though. Yeah.

43:59Bill Simmons:Have some of that. It was Pitt's biggest film ever. Worldwide, at least. It surpassed Cars 2 as the highest grossing sports film worldwide. Is Cars 2 a sports movie? Isn't that animated? Isn't it animated? Yeah. I mean... That was in my research. Cars 2 was the biggest sports movie. I don't know what the actual biggest one is I forgot to mention Soundtrack by Hans Fucking Zimmer And the Hansettes Coming at John Williams now Has John Williams in his sights Roger Ebert did not review this movie Because he's been dead for like 10 years Do you think you would have liked it? So I looked up some of his racing reviews He gave Rush 4 stars Days of Thunder 2 Top Gun 2.5 I didn't do the chat GBT to find out what he would have thought I was about to ask I was about to ask you got uncomfortable last time no I didn't no I do I do chat GBT all the time look at this dog population estimate in the world college football scandals explain to me sovereign AI what is a hostile takeover all kinds of violent history of the KKK this is what I ask you could just google that though but chat GBT does it better I think Raj would have given this three stars too long racing scenes incredible I said three stars as well and I think he would have paid special tribute to Carrie Condon and how she was a well-developed female character.

45:19The floor is three stars because the movie making is so great.

45:22Bill Simmons:I know. Yeah. All right, we take a break. Then we're going to do most rewatchable scene. Did you know about one in three people with plaque psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away.

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46:14my God.

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47:01Bill Simmons:All right, guys. I have a few here. I'm going to try to zip through them. All right. Most rewatchable scene. The opening scene, Sonny in a trailer. Is this Cliff Booth? Is he back? It's just such a great character introduction. the Led Zepp just coming in. They're like, not only have we spent a lot of money in this movie, we got fucking Led Zepp on. Dude, when you see this shit in IMAX and a whole lot of love starts and then he dunks his face in an ice bath and then he's like, 24 hours in Daytona, Shea Wiggum, let's fucking go. You're ready to fucking go. And another thing, you're ready to go, A, he's sleeping and then the person says, five minutes until you have to get into one of those death machines and race around.

47:44You just right away know so much about the character.

47:46Bill Simmons:And then he gets out of the car and he goes, lose that lead. Lose that lead and I'll kill you. Puts a bunch of zins in. Spend your whole life starting over, Sonny. Anyway, next one. Sonny shows up, does the I can get within one second of JP challenge. Flips the car at the end, but he made it. Enjoyable. Sizing each other up. Some good sizing. Some good sizing in this movie. Didn't super understand that. It seemed like he had one good sector, but stalled once and then crashed. So I was like, what did you do? That's our guy. He's 52 and he crashed. I also really like when they're like, is he auditioning?

48:29He's like, no, he's auditioning us.

48:33Bill Simmons:That is a trope. I have Sonny and Kate having a beer right into the Rocky IV training montage. where it's like JP's doing the new school version but there's there's our guy Sonny old school just doing pull ups we never we don't talk about that trope old school new school training montage old school new school training Stallone invented that shit they invented it yeah I can't I gotta say CR's been in my life for so long that when the two beers scene for some reason I just think of CR immediately as I'm watching it I'm like CR would love this watching this girl with a big pint yeah and if she pulled out a cigarette Like you said earlier, I think it would have been all over.

49:14Bill Simmons:Good. We don't get a lot of pint scenes anymore. It's also a very idyllic pub on a canal. Beautiful. Beautiful, beautiful pub. They look great. Yeah, they look awesome. I mean, neither of them is really drinking the beer. No. Yes. I wonder if that was... It's like just that much is gone. I wonder if that was an F1 thing. Because the only person who's really drinking alcohol in this movie is Tobias Menzies. and everybody else is kind of having non-NA beers. Yeah. You know, we're this deep into the pod. We haven't really talked about this movie as a function. Of F1 propaganda. Of F1 propaganda, commercial stuff.

49:52Bill Simmons:I mean, every single driver's in it. I didn't want to spend too much time on that because there was so much written and discussed about it when the movie came out. But it is, we probably shouldn't talk about it. It's a two and a half hour commercial for F1. Yeah. I mean, Lewis Hamilton's in the end. Nobody's a villain. or Lewis Hamilton is part of the filmmaking team yeah and there's no nothing like Ferrari is the bad guys or Red Bull are the bad guys there are no bad guys although I will say interestingly enough I'm sure we're gonna get to this at some point the F1 community kind of mixed on this movie yeah surprisingly and some of the drivers even were just like eh and I wondered if it was like they have to be like Carlos Sainz has to get passed you know what I mean like Max gets passed by these dudes like I'm interested cause I saw that in the research too I'm interested in what they would have wanted.

50:37Bill Simmons:Yeah, but that's the thing. Like if somebody... It's like when they made that rom-com about the place that seemed like Grantland. Oh, yeah. Like, you fucking guys. Does that sound like that? We wouldn't have... My office wouldn't be that nice. What is this movie? It was a Glenn Powell movie, right? It was the Glenn Powell movie with... Zoe Doe. Zoe Doe. Oh, I don't know what the fuck it is. They were working at... And they admitted it was like based on like a Grantland type of place. And it was like so much nicer than Grantland and The Office. We just had like... We worked on top of... People cram together.

51:04Bill Simmons:Yeah. so oh I forgot in the beer thing this was another like mini trope they're saying Sonny isn't a has been he's a never was like I've heard that line before there's some lines where it's like this definitely got pulled out AI next scene Sonny exploits the rules by causing minor crashes to get JP in the top 10 I'm just gonna do this as a nitpick now can you do this

51:37I don't think so to the extent that they do it.

51:39Bill Simmons:It's probably why the F1 people didn't like this. Well, I think when you read, I was reading reviews of the movie in F1 and auto racing magazines, and they were like, this is ridiculous, this is ridiculous, no one would ever do this, you couldn't do that. So I think if you're a general fan, if you're obviously a movie-going fan, but if you are like, I am broadly aware of F1, but don't understand the minutia of it, you love this movie, and if you do understand all the details of F1, you're probably like, well, that's bullshit. So I always think what would I have, if I was a banker and I was watching The Big Short, because The Big Short is the only other movie that I can compare to this film that has to do work in order for the narrative to be understood, has to do work in educating the audience as you're watching the movie.

52:26And obviously, it's fabled. They did it in a very ingenious way. But in this movie, if not for that part, that probably doesn't happen, I would really not know what was going on. There's like a couple of different parts in the film where some of the stuff that they use in story explains to me… That's a really good example because Big Short has all those direct-to-camera moments with like Selena Gomez and Anthony Bourdain. But then also like in margin call, there will be times in margin call where a character will be like, explain this to me like I'm 10. And it's like, well, you probably understand a little bit more of a sophisticated version of this.

53:00But, you know, if you want Jeremy Irons to say that, you can have it. That way the audience understands how the housing crisis starts.

53:08Bill Simmons:I was trying to think of the sports that we watch all the time. What would be the example of him causing the minor crashes, but it's somehow being legal? Being football, if you're like, there's 30 seconds left, the other team's on their 20, and you just did pass interference every time to chew the clock up, like five yards right off the line of the scrimmage, and it just chews up five seconds, and then the other team's at the 45 with no time left, which I've seen teams try to do. And if that was an even more blatant version of that strategy, that's kind of like... It's a little hack-a-shack. Yeah, a little bit.

53:39Bill Simmons:Hack-a-shack. Hack-a-shack is a good example. Hack-a-shack's good too. Yeah. JP crashes in the rain. This is an incredible sports movie scene. The Monza, the whole Monza race is amazing. Every piece of this is great. The combat chant right into the Sonny is putting it together montage. Say something about the crash real quick. It's good music, yeah. Another reason why that crash is great is because in the movie, you don't know if he's going to die. It's very... Well, it's unexpected, yeah. Yeah, it's... You think he's going to win the race. You're just like, oh, he's going to pass this guy. But once he crashes, I could see them killing him.

54:14Bill Simmons:Yeah. Like, it's a Brad Pitt deal. He's there. I could see the character dying. It's not like when you... In a Marvel film or some of these other big budget IP movies, these people have signed up for... Nobody's going to die. There's a danger to this film because you don't know what's going to happen. I could see them killing him. I thought maybe he was dead. the combat chant Sonny putting it together montage really good music the poker game I have some thoughts on the poker game later but it's an enjoyable scene the first time through yeah Carrie's wearing the strapless on a rewatch gonna be completely candid there is like an hour and a half version of this movie that's just the races that is just like yeah that's all I want to watch in my life well they need this though to set up the hookup with her yeah but I just like when anybody plays cards in a movie.

55:01Bill Simmons:The balcony scene. The Brad Pitt face. I was going to be world champion. Best there ever was. Then it was all taken away. Chasing that moment every time I get in the car. I don't know when I'll find it again, but man, I want to. So in that moment, I'm flying. It's pretty good. Yeah, it has good stuff. You like that. She's just looking. They got the balcony with Vegas. Great scene.

55:29Bill Simmons:I like when they don't want him to race. If it's the last thing I do is drive that car, I will take that life. Oh, this is after Vegas when he crashes in Vegas. I had a question though. Why not, when they're trying to decide whether Sonny should race or not, why not have Javier Bardem do a coin toss? All of a sudden, his hair is parted forward. And he's just like, call it, call it, Sonny. Then the final sprint. And then them winning in a champagne spray celebration. That seems really fun. Did the right guy crash? Let's just do this now. Oh, this is my hottest take. Let's hear it. Let's just do it now.

56:09This is a better movie if Sonny crashes. My Luke Wilson hottest take is basically Sonny winning Abu Dhabi, much like Maverick, where Maverick has to be the one who saves everybody's asses, is probably good for this movie, but bad for the movie industry. and it is kind of like a metaphor for like baby boomers staying in their houses. Like we got to get you guys out of the paint and it's not good for the movie industry if we don't build more Brad Pitt's and more Tom Cruise's and if these guys keep making movies like this where they're like, no, no, no, I win. I'm the champion but thank you for your assistance.

56:46It's bad for the movie industry so I like it in the movie but Brad Pitt should crash at the end.

56:52Bill Simmons:I remember we talked about this when we did the thing on my pod because that was the one thing I had walking out of the theater where I was like, huh. The better movie is if Damson wins. Yes. Well, it's... And Sonny puts him forward and pays it forward and the team wins. But they have Sonny win and it's just... And then it's like, you'll win more later. You're going to win 10 of these. It's like, will he? I don't know. So the best version of this, to me, that's ever been done in this old dog, new dog thing is in Color of Money. Yeah. Where at the end,

57:28Newman wins but he doesn't know that he actually didn't win that he's in a world now to where he can't see the angles anymore so actually Vince won so you walk away you kind of get the best of both worlds now you get Eddie Filson like renewed and all of that and you get the actual character walking away smiling the young guy smiling in this movie though I'm going to keep it all the way real with y 'all I didn't go to the movie to watch Damson win the race so here's the only flip I would say what you are saying is true but like by the time we built it up to him because they didn't do enough for Damson's character in the movie to make him winning the race satisfactory if his mom would have needed if we knew more about all of this stuff I completely agree with you they didn't do enough for his character for him to win the race

58:21Bill Simmons:first time I was shocked that he didn't win second time pit winning made more sense to me in the context of the movie but I still think it's more interesting if they flip it it's just a more interesting movie like the movie that probably did the handover the best is Creed and it's also a very successful franchise about a new quote unquote character even though it's like a legacy character I was gonna say Any Given Sunday because Cap gets hurt right before halftime sure makes the Dennis Quaid face but Cap like once again in that movie there's no stakes in Willie Beeman taking over Cap we barely get to no cap.

58:53We're doing it in 2027. But it would be kind of cool if like... It's a redo. Sonny crashes in Vegas and he's not allowed to race anymore. Like Ruben won't let him race. So he becomes the guy on the ear. You know, Kate... Yeah, nobody wants that. I know. But I'm just saying like it's bad for the movie industry if we do not make these dudes into like superstars. I don't disagree. Like you wonder if in F2, if JP gets to win or if they even... They could literally not bring JP back for F2. Fuck, I mean, F2 could just be Brad Pitt and Baja, and I go see it. Would you see that? Yeah. I'll probably go watch it.

59:30Brad Pitt, Sonny Bunch, and Baja. Yeah. Let Taylor Sheridan ride it. The cartel's coming after him. Okay. So that was my hottest take, but we put it in for Abu Dhabi.

59:43Bill Simmons:You know, when you get old in life, things get taken away from you. It's part of life. You only learn that when you start losing stuff. find out that life is just a game of inches. Are you just doing Any Given Sunday? What's happening? I'm just getting you guys ready for 2026 Any Given Sunday. And this team, we fight for that inch! I was like, did Sonny say that? Yeah. I was like, what's going on? That probably would have been the way to have Sonny not race in the final race as he gives a Pacino like Any Given Sunday speech to JP. What's your most rewatchable scene? Monza. It's fucking awesome.

1:00:18The virtual safety car, the rain coming in Sonny cuts off Max I like when the guy

1:00:23Bill Simmons:whips the fire thing to him so because Sonny's closer and then good little details the slingshot move and the rain spray is awesome so Monza I also really like the British Grand Prix when Sonny doesn't start like it's like the race starts and Sonny's just sitting there and they're like what's he doing what's he doing he's playing us yeah if not for him flying is definitely Monza for me but the flying part which is really cool that's my answer as well there's only one other scene that I like I love the ending in this movie I love any scene in a movie where two old friends see each other but at first they pretend like they don't know each other yeah that's what CR and I are gonna do oh like a diner yeah the diner you old son of a bitch come here you son of a bitch come here you son of a bitch you old fucking son it's good to see ya like I love any scene like that we should start doing that every time we see each other every time we see each other that's when I come find CR in London in 25 years.

1:01:20Bill Simmons:I'm having a beer with Kerry Condon. Yeah. And you got to go, we got a pod one more time. I got a new podcast idea. It's a rewatchable Zavaz. I need you. What's the most 2025 thing about this movie? Well, this just happened, but I'll give you a Drive to Survive reference. The F1 having a major race in Las Vegas could only have happened in the last two years. and then JP watching Sonny's 1993 accident on YouTube. Yeah, I mean, three choices. Those are really rooted in the 2020s. Making a movie like this about F1 at this particular point. F1 has taken over. F1 being internationally beloved celeb-infested mega-sport.

1:02:05I want to know how you feel about this. So to me, F1 is the new soccer in that it's a sport that you have to act like you care about if you are a cosmopolitan... You're talking from an American standpoint? Yeah, if you're a cosmopolitan sports fan, like us regular sports fans that get into baseball, playoff baseball, football, and basketball, maybe a little tennis, maybe a little golf when there's a dominant person.

1:02:30Bill Simmons:Then you're pretending you know something about the World Cup. Right. I think the Croatian could beat England. I heard that, by the way, on you and Zach. Just like last year, there was friends of mine that were going, yeah, I'm going, I got to go support my fucking driving team. I'm like, get the fuck out of here. your driving team. What the fuck are you talking about? I will say, the under 30s, there were some people that jumped right in. But that's a part of it. Like now, everybody... Our podcast does pretty well. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Shout out to Meg Schuster. I'm just saying, everybody now has to have like a soccer team.

1:03:01You know, everybody has to have a soccer team. And it's like, if you're a true sports fan, if you're into soccer, if you're into the WNBA, you're a true sports fan. Yeah, that's being a constant. Before the WNBA

1:03:13Bill Simmons:went on a three-year strike. The WNBA cooking right now It's like fun to watch I hope it's cooking I can't wait to Regular season games next year Have you seen Audie Crooks? Where does she play? Who are you talking to? She plays for Iowa State Iowa State Have I seen Audie Crooks? Alright Just making sure you You're supporting the league Bill Cause they need you I'm supporting If you don't Cause you've been in the past I was texting with Shanae Yesterday about it I was Name dropping Cause she's gonna come On the pod soon Cause we We really have to figure out this WNBA strike before it becomes a strike.

1:03:47Bill Simmons:Yeah. Yeah, it's true. This is not a good situation. Do people with F1, do they more cheer for drivers or teams? I think it's drivers, right? Like the people that I know that are into it. Mal likes like... I think it's like basketball where some people have teams and other people have drivers. So if the driver switches team, it's like LeBron. Oh, LeBron's on the Cavs again. I'm rooting for the Cavs. Let me ask you this. Michael Schumacher was F1, right? Sure. Yes. Because in the... Yeah, he is. In the 90s, he was everywhere, right? I think he did. Those guys also moved around. They did Indy. Indy car as well.

1:04:20They would race F1 and also race other. Did he have a feud with Cole Trickle? Schumacher? No. It was him and Seta were racing.

1:04:27Bill Simmons:It was going back and forth. What stage is the best? Brad Pitt living in a trailer. I'm just in every time. Yeah. At this point. I don't know if anyone's ever lived in a trailer better than him in a movie. It would be funny if he was playing like FDR but he was living in a trailer.

1:04:45back on the White House

1:04:46Bill Simmons:they just released a movie called Brad Pitt's living in the trailer yeah that's just the movie he's got a dog but he's FDR open open as good looking as he is he does slovenly really well yeah he does like disgusting it's cause you're that fucking hot you can just do whatever you want who's your favorite Brad Pitt character ever is it Moneyball guy nah uh Tyler my favorite is probably either True Romance or or Fight Club Mine is Floyd in True Romance, hands down. One of my favorite characters of all time. He's coming back. And then Burn After Reading would be like an honorable mention. What's age the best?

1:05:27Bill Simmons:I like movies with just a great expensive soundtrack. That they're just like, we're going to have Queen and Led Zeppelin and some other shit on this. And money was not spared. They also just did a full album of new music for this record. I have a bunch. What do you have? I'm just a fucking Irish guy who loves Cary Condon.

1:05:49yeah I got I got Carrie Codden I love it when she goes what's wrong with the car that guy is sitting in it and her shit is thick and we also we gotta bring we gotta start saying box box like next time I have to pee I'm gonna be like box box I'm gonna walk off set like with like the F1 pit call when like they're like I have to bring the car into pit road Oh, they're like box, box, box. Did you notice that?

1:06:17Bill Simmons:I did. Okay. I was thinking about should they have added a scene when… Because we never see Damson's dad if JP's dad. Oh, shit. They were like, what happened to him? And Carrie Conner was like… Be careful. I gave him a taste. She took to it right away. Took to it right away. You did the chemical way. It was on. I told CR I was on the other day. I watched the entire movie. I'd just seen it like three months ago. I'm going to be real. If it's on, I just hop in. I watch a lot of villains say a lot of evil shit. Flower guys. That motherfucker saying that to him is the most evil shit. And then your dad let you think she just ran away.

1:06:58As he's doing the fucking flower. While you're putting your fucking flyers out there. That's one of the most evil villain monologues that I've ever seen. That was an evil motherfucker in that movie.

1:07:09Bill Simmons:Spirit animal. What else do you have, CR? Just like our introduction to Sonny as a guy who's like listening to Led Zeppelin, doing his clothes at the laundromat, listening to the radio. I just think it's like a great character beat where you're like, this is a dude that's out of step with modern times. The technical stuff. Had that as well. Like the In-Race scoreboard graphic helpers. All of the tech, all of the technical stuff. How beautiful, this movie almost looks like it could be, it takes place in the present time, but like this movie looks like it could be like a near-futurist film with how much stuff is going on.

1:07:41It's also crazy how much you, kind of like I never really truly understand what the fuck is happening but like by the end of the movie you're like oh my god he's gonna undercut him you know what I'm like I didn't know what that concept was before I watched this movie and as a commercial this might be the single most and maybe you guys can think of one that's better this might be the single most effective movie commercial maybe other than The Wizard like when you were a kid and you were watching The Wizard you wanted to play Mario 3 like crazy when The Wizard came out but But this, knowing that that world exists, like these incredibly rich, beautiful people watching people drive these, that looks like an intoxicating world to be a part of.

1:08:22It made me sort of almost halfway, half of 1 % interested in F1. I've never watched.

1:08:28Bill Simmons:Yeah, the outdoor luxury box situation they have with the evil villain guy entertaining his guests. That seems pretty fun. Yeah. Who wants some caviar, guys, as we watch guys raise five? It seems like 80 % of F1 audiences are in executive suites somehow. I had the same thing with the scoreboard graphic helpers, how we always know where we are in the race. I just think we've seen so many sports movies where they fuck that up. You don't know what the score is, or they have announcers. And here comes Sonny Hayes. We didn't expect to see him. And they just screwed up. I have asking diner waitresses for advice.

1:09:04Bill Simmons:Oh, it's a win. What do you think there, Luis? Well, how much are we talking? Yeah. It's not about the money. These diner waitresses are just undefeated. They've seen a lot. They've been through a lot. It's really funny. They've seen a lot. They're like bartenders, but they've seen even more. Brad Pitt got$30 million to do this movie. He's like, it's not about the money.

1:09:28Bill Simmons:The morning jogs we mentioned. The old school opening credit sequence. Awesome. We don't do opening credits anymore, Van. Brought me back to the 90s. And then my last one, there's another sports movie trope of many ones. In this case, the jumpy pit crew member. Yeah, Jody. Where you're like, oh, she's going to be redeemed. Yeah. She's going to come through. We're going to have a change over one point. She'll have her shit together. I always enjoy those. Okay. Big Coon and Burger War. Best used food and drink. The beers. The beer date. Yeah, sure. Easy one. Honorable mention to Bardem and Pit's diner scene.

1:10:03That's good too, yeah. Great shot Gordo. JP's car crash in slow-mo. Yeah. that's a clear winner but I was trying to think there's so many awesome shots in the movie that's a clear winner you know what just like gets my fucking heart going is just the shot of Sonny taking checkered flag and the fucking fireworks going off it's like god damn

1:10:21Bill Simmons:that's gorgeous beautiful yeah great use of fireworks in this movie Kid Cudi Preceded Happiness where Best Needle Drop it's clearly a whole lot of love leads up but I do like the Chris Stapleton song that plays over the practice race that when when Sonny first gets to the team Chess Rockwell Brock Lander's best character name Sonny Hayes. What do you have? The British sports reporter, Don Cavendish. Sonny! Sonny, you're a gambler! That could have been... That should be a new category for 26. What part could CR have played? That would have been... It easily could have been Don Cavendish. Yeah. Cavendish comes up.

1:10:59Bill Simmons:Oh, you have a flex category. What do you got? Oh, when would I have died? Now, most people would probably say when they were driving. I think I would die cleaning gravel off of the track

1:11:12I think I would be like busy listening to something and then like getting distracted and getting going out by Lewis Hamilton

1:11:19Bill Simmons:Final Destination that shit Butch's Girlfriend Award for weak link of the film I have a glaring one but what do you have? I have you go no you go but it was hard for me to like find one but it was probably his manager punch it in yeah it's It's the guy, Samson K.O. is good in it, but it is a nothing part. All he does is just say, is he a bad guy, a good guy? And even at the end, when JP decides not to do it, they haven't committed enough to the character. He just daps him up. He's like, cool, we're not going to do social media anymore. I don't have a job. You just fire me, but that's great. They're probably cousins or something like that.

1:11:56Yeah, they are. These guys exist, though.

1:11:58Bill Simmons:It's like the Anthony Edwards' buddy in the Adidas commercial. But you need, to me, you got to commit to that character there a little bit. Give that character something to do. Make him a little sinister. Yeah, he has to be like, I want to go to these parties for myself. I need you to come to get me in. I'm trying to get laid. Either funnier or more serious or something. Sonny's way too fucking old to be an F1 driver. That's picking nits, though. No, this is the weak link of the film. I looked it up. The oldest Formula One driver ever to win a Grand Prix was Luigi Fagioli. He's 53 years old. That was in 1951 at the French Grand Prix.

1:12:33Bill Simmons:Lewis Hamilton is the oldest 21st century driver to win a race. He was 39 years old in 2004. Sonny crashed in 93. So he's either 19 or 20 when he crashes. So that makes him 51, 52, or 53 in this film. This would be like fucking Jack Nicklaus winning the 86 Masters multiplied by seven. It's impossible. Right. There are no 50-year-old F1 drivers. Well, it's also like how many old F1 drivers have also had major spinal surgery. C5. And never were really in an F1 before. Yeah. All of this is improbable, but I love it. And that's why I want to put it in the pics. Was there a better title for this movie?

1:13:13Bill Simmons:In 2023, ESPN reported that the film was titled Apex. Terrible title. Terrible title. For a movie that's... I don't like the title F1. I don't think it's a good title. I think it's too confusing with the actual property. And I think they should have come up with a better one. what they call it Sunny Hayes Apex F1 it's like you google it and F1 comes up I think also F1 calling it that made it seem more explicitly like an advertisement for the for the for the racing so it almost like is like a little like did you call it flying? no but that's the thing is like what are you going to call it? but you know if you're trying if you're trying to I don't like the Apex name if you're if you're trying to do a commercial for F1 like I said the movie it lives inside the fact that it's straightforward and vap.

1:14:03Alright, Counter

1:14:04Bill Simmons:if this was a movie about an NBA player and they just called it NBA that'd be weird. It wouldn't make any sense because the sports are well established. You guys going to see NBA? No, man I'm going to see Atlanta Hawks. It's got to be an independent version of NBA. That's a bad title. What's age the worst? So, we don't know because this movie only came out six months ago. I got one. What do you got? A real one. So, Lewis Hamilton's beloved dog Roscoe was in this film. Oh, and yeah, now he's dead. Roscoe has passed away. It was very tough for Lewis Hamilton. He talked a lot about it. And when I went to go see the movie at first, Roscoe was still alive and well.

1:14:40It was cool. He meant a lot to F1. He was kind of an F1 mascot. And when you see him now, you think about how much that must sell for Lewis Hamilton.

1:14:49Bill Simmons:I had this as more than a nitpick, so I put it here. This movie ends three times, and I think you can make a case you just stick with the first ending. which would be what yeah he wins the race he's walking off it could have ended there he's gotta say goodbye to Carrie Condon so you have that moment it could have ended there then he's gotta say goodbye one more time to JP easily could have ended there and now we're going to Baja yeah Baja Baja was too much Baja was sick what the fuck Baja was fine but just make that a deleted scene it was like they liked how they shot it or post credit it like Baja was too much right end the movie maybe make that just post credits completely but I, there's no way that should have been the ending.

1:15:32Bill Simmons:You could have just ended this with him spraying the champagne. I think you're right, but it is like, this is a guy who does what he says he's going to do. And it's not about the money. It's about the driving, you know? So you have to have that hammered home one more time when he gets, when he gets to Baja, when he gets to Mexico. All right. I find it hard to believe this guy's like, my F1 career is now over. I won my one race. Age the worst. I mean, this is also a nitpick, but we kind of mentioned this. I think there should have been more scenes of F1 drivers interacting with these guys and or commenting on the fictional reality of the movie.

1:16:06Bill Simmons:Well, even that one scene with the talk show with the guy who ran Apex with the two real guys. With Zac Brown and yeah. Ruffalo, Hannah Rubnick, Partridge, overacting award. I would probably say your English reporter guy. What is that guy? He's like on cocaine? Yeah. Funny. Funny. Yeah! Treating people like shit, asking crazy questions. Yeah. It's paid out in the end. You got a flex category, Ben. I do. I got another top five. This is the top five scenes of old guys schooling young guys in movies. Five to one. Number five, Joe Clark to Sam's in Lean On Me. Yeah. On the roof. Yeah. Why don't you just jump?

1:16:51It kills your brain cells, son. It kills your brain cells. Sam's looking at he's overtaken by the fact that he's actually on crack and Joe Clark is trying to save his life. I don't think you're allowed to do that in schools anymore. Probably not. To fake like you're gonna push somebody off the roof of the goddamn school. LA Times continues to investigate. Right. Like Joe Clark. Number four, Rocky beats up Tommy Gunn. Yeah. I can't believe how much we've talked about this. I'm sorry, bro. Rocky putting them hands on Tommy Gunn. Tommy was asking for it. Tommy was asking for it. Okay. That's very meaningful to me.

1:17:21You come into the bar

1:17:22Bill Simmons:and start talking shit. Number three, Shep out-dueling Kyle Watson in the one-on-one game and above the rim. 15 straight, 14-footers. And then at the end, you hear that? You hear that? You talking to his friend? He says, I'm cool. It's good. Number two. That's where they probably would have put him in a straight jacket. When he's talking to his buddy. You hear that nutso? Nutso! You hear that nutso? And he liked nutso more than anyone's ever liked one of their friends. Like, did you ever have a friend you cared about more than Nutso? I have a couple of them, but no friends that I would play basketball on the roof with, with no fence.

1:18:05Right. And then the way Nutso died is fucking absurd. It's the best. Okay. That movie's elite. Number two is split. One, Yoda schooling Luke. Yeah. When Luke cannot raise the ex-wings in Dagobah. Yeah. In Dagobah. Yeah. Out of the thing. And then Luke's dad also got schooled.

1:18:26Bill Simmons:Yeah. Kenobi stood there and he said, Anakin, don't try it. Don't try to jump. And Anakin went, you're underestimating my power. He jumped and Kenobi cut his fucking legs off. Spoiler. Jesus. Like, come on. No, you're talking about the prequels. I'm talking about in Revenge of the Sith. It's just one of my all-time favorite, you got too much dip on your chip moments. Anakin's like, I'm the chosen one. I could jump. So that was two Star Wars as number one. As number... No, no, as number two. Number one is very clear. This is the best, and I hate to give you this props. The best old guy, schooling young guy scene ever to me is Robin Williams to Matt Damon on the bench in Good Will Hunting.

1:19:10Bill Simmons:Just watched it with Ben Simmons. Did you really? Ben Simmons and I watched Good Will Hunting and Shawshank Redemption back-to-back two nights ago. Does Ben like F1? Yo, he loved it. Yeah, that's some hardcore bonding right there. Good Will Hunting was great. He's sitting down there and he's telling him the whole thing. He just cuts Will down to nothing. You looked at a painting for five seconds and you cut apart my fucking life. My whole fucking life. You ever been on a plane before? Like the whole nine just takes his whole shit apart because Will is a genius but Robin Williams is experienced.

1:19:43Bill Simmons:Your move, Chief. Your move, Chief. Yep. It's a great one. I will say watching Shawshank with Ben was one of my highlights It's a 2025. He had no idea what was going to happen. And he was like, is he going to? Then Andy gets the rope. He's going back to his son. He's like, he's going to hang himself? Like, what the fuck? And then the next day, they're like, he doesn't come out for the cell and he's gone. And Ben was just like, he lost his mind like four times. Forget how great that movie is. Hottest take. See, I already gave his. Did you have one? Yeah. I don't like anybody in real life or in movies that throws cards for fun.

1:20:20It's also, have you ever in your life seen somebody do that? It's like, think about what kind of obsessive bastard you have to be to throw all them cards for fun. I don't trust you at all. I think that, number one, you got to go clean up all the cards, then you got to do it again. Crazy alone time you got to spend. Number two, it's kind of violent. You're throwing cards. I feel like what you really want to be throwing is like ninja stars or some shit like that. Like a switchblade. Like a switchblade. Like you want to throw something at somebody. I just never trusted anyone That's like too into cards And using cards as tricks And throwing cards There's one guy in the history Of throwing cards That was cool One dude Gambit X-Men Charge a card Kinetically throw it I was gonna say that You're really pushing Bill With Revenge of the Sith And Gambit from X-Men Come on now You gotta know it It's a useless skill Just throwing cards Sitting around there They always make it As a cool movie thing too You're just tossing cards I've never liked people That done that before

1:21:17Bill Simmons:My hottest take was that but I like racing movies 10 times more than actual racing. Yes. Let's take a break and then we'll do some casting what-ifs. This episode is brought to you by Pure Michigan. In Grand Rapids, every moment feels like a scene worth replaying. Every riverside stroll, every slow afternoon sipping small batch brews, every guitar riff drifting out of the city's brand new amphitheater. This is a place where everything feels cinematic. Like you've stepped into a highlight reel that's yours to explore. Ranked as the number one city on the rise from LinkedIn, Grand Rapids invites you to find a rhythm all your own, season after season, in pure Michigan.

1:21:56Bill Simmons:Find your season at experiencegr.com. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Ads. Ever invest in something that seemed incredible at first, but didn't live up to the hype? Well, marketers know the feeling. They optimize for the numbers that look great, impressions, reach, reacts. But when they don't show revenue, well, that's not. Such a great conversation with the CFO. LinkedIn has a word for that, bull spend. Instead, why not invest in what looks good to your CFO? LinkedIn ads generates the highest ROAS of all major ad networks. Reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. You can target by company industry, job title, and more.

1:22:35Bill Simmons:So cut the bull spend. Advertise on LinkedIn, the network that works for you. Spend$250 in your first campaign on LinkedIn ads. get a$250 credit. For the next one, just go to linkedin.com slash rewatchables. Terms and conditions apply. Casting what ifs, you mentioned Damson Idris was hired after passing the F1 driving test. We don't know who the other actors he beat out were, but we'll find out in about 12 years as the internet starts making up names of people that are around the same age. Simone Ashley, we do know that she did promotional tour interviews, is in the movie as his love interest, and then just got cut out.

1:23:14Bill Simmons:I must suck yes can you imagine because you're probably like I'm in I'm gonna be in one of the biggest movies of the year and I'm like a big part and they're just like yeah it just didn't work but then you go to the movie I went to have fun where were you? but you go to the movie and you're like oh so we needed another jogging scene yeah thanks motherfuckers Pitt was supposed to be in the original Ford vs. Friar with Tom Cruise and it was called Go Like Hell with Kaczynski directing but it fell apart yep and they ended up working together in this. Best That Guy award. I mean, there's a few. What did you have for this?

1:23:48I have Kim Budnaya from the dude from Killing Eve as Casper, the team principal. Like the guy who's like got his family coming to visit at the garage and stuff. Or Will Merrick, who's the dude who's always like box, box, box.

1:24:02Bill Simmons:Who's the guy in the first scene, the whole lot of love scene? Shea Wiggum. Yeah. That's not a... He's not a that guy, right? That's a fucking major dude. That's a guy. Yeah It's a dude He used to be that guy though Sure But he's been in He's a graduated that guy Very much so Yeah he's Although maybe not Because I couldn't remember his name Maybe he hasn't graduated Would you give him Dion Waiters? That's my Dion Waiters Shay Because I can't He's so much more of a that guy than me To me That I could not understand Why he showed up In the movie For one scene And then had three lines And then you never see him again Apple Apple money Like come on in I wonder whether or not He was supposed to be Have a bigger part I don't know He was also maybe Trimmed down or cut out Deion Waiters Could we go with The aggressive English reporter Don Cavendish We could do a Don Cavendish I went with Tobias Menzies Do you think Peter Banning is in this movie Too much?

1:24:57I think he's in too much He might be in a little too much That's a good one though Because when he's in it He's dialing it up I don't really think This movie needed that character Yeah It's a nit The villain turn is like Completely wet And like the whole like like, betray Ruben, and I leaked the papers. It's like, I don't know. It was going fine.

1:25:15Bill Simmons:You could go with the McLaren and the Ferrari guys in that one scene, too, maybe. Yeah. Just coming in hot, shitting all over the bus. Recasting couch director of city, I wouldn't change anything. Well, he also used all the cities. Yeah, he used every city. Craig is not here. Craig's on vacation. He has no flex category. Half-faceted research. Bruckheimer said it took a year to convince everyone to be able to do this on race weekends. everybody was worried about being the villain he promised everyone no villains the trailer uses the chain by Fleetwood Mac which apparently Formula 1's been using on BBC since 1978 but that's not in the movie the crash that ended Sonny's career was based on the actual crash of Martin Donnelly in the 1990s Spanish Grand Prix he was an advisor on the film Kaczynski said they had over 5 ,000 hours of footage in two years to edit because of the strikes.

1:26:09Bill Simmons:Yeah. And he thought that was one of the reasons the movie was so good. A former F1 female strategy engineer named Bernie Collins from Northern Ireland, CR, provided the inspiration for the Carrie Condon character. Sure. Could be wife too. Who knows? I don't know what she's doing. You just, you put it into the, into the hair right there. She smokes Barbaro Red. Rick and Six. The F1 album has just a lot of famous people in it. Sheeran Stapleton. Yeah. Sponsorships from various brands in this movie brought in at least 40 million bucks. There's another reason why they disputed the budget stuff. There's a whole bunch of camera stuff that I'm not going to go through, but if you're interested in it, you can read about all the ways they mounted things, Apple making them, how they made the smallest cameras ever.

1:26:59Bill Simmons:I looked around for a doc on all of this, and there's not. Yeah, there's mostly stuff about like Damson and Brad learning how to drive stuff. But like the cameras were essentially like the kind that they used in Top Gun operated by remote control. And like the stuff that they're doing where it's like on Brad Pitt's face and then snap panning to another driver, whether that's a visual effect or what, it's incredible. Well, the director said that one of the primary focuses that they had was making sure that when they were on the guys during the race, racing scenes, that they didn't have to act. he's like one thing that can throw the racing scenes off is if the guy's faces don't match the intensity of what's happening yeah Cruz I'm sorry Pitt looks like he's a couple especially in the last scene it really looks like he's yes like he's like flying to outer space Apex Mountain too hard to do when the movie just came out but I do think it's Apex I think F1 has a real Apex Mountain F1 and Kaczynski because now it's back to back those would be the huge movies yeah I don't know about anybody else maybe Carrie Condon I could argue that Yeah, I could argue that Kaczynski was top of the gun.

1:28:06But it's this. It's F1 for sure.

1:28:08Bill Simmons:I think Maverick with this, that guy is now… Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going to his next movie. I don't know what it is. Miami Vice. Did we meet him last month? We did, right? Running Man. Yeah, I tried to be cool. Who, Kaczynski? Yeah. He came to the office. Jack Sanders completely embarrassed me. Why? What did he say? So, like… Fucking Jack Sanders. Jack Sanders comes to the office. Did you try to go up to Joe and go, Joe Kaczynski, you son of a bitch!

1:28:37Jack, me and Jack have this thing that we do. Yeah. To where I see Jack and I go, what time is it? And Jack says, it's nigga time. Jack Sanders? Yeah, he's like, and he said that, Jack says that, right? And it's a part of me and Jack's bonding. Yeah. And so it's a part of me and Jack's bonding. And we say that. That doesn't happen. And so I walked up to Jack. Man, this is fucked up if you're lying. He's been doing this. Also, can we actually, he's got like this weird new thing he's doing. There's this story, which did not happen. I know it didn't. And then the other day, he sent me like 14 fucking text messages being like, Chris, Chris, Chris, Tua wants to come on the watch.

1:29:22I was like, Tua from the Dolphins. And he's like, yeah, Tua likes the show. He wants to come on the watch. and I'm like, Van, you're fucking with me but like, honestly, like, I don't really know if we would have a spot for Tua if he doesn't watch shows. He's like, what does Tua want And you're like, why don't you just answer me about whether Tua is allowed on the watch? What's wrong with you? Don't you have enough to do?

1:29:45Bill Simmons:This is your best bit of 2025. So, so, I walk up to Jack and I go, you can't, we can't run this. There are going to be people who know you're joking. Okay, at least you made that one part up. So, I did make, so listen, I've so he's there what the fuck are you talking about wait I've asked this to be a bit for me and Jack and Jack has never agreed no shit right so I've asked for this to be a bit between me and Jack and Jack has never agreed and Kaczynski was in the Kaczynski was in the office and he was doing he was doing the big picture and so I walk up to Jack when he's with Kaczynski and I go Yo, Jack, what time is it?

1:30:30And Jack goes, man, leave me alone. I'm doing important stuff. And then I realized that Kaczynski was with him. Yeah. And he walked away, and Kaczynski turned around and was the boom. So your point is that Jack has never said that. No, Jack has never said that. Jack refuses to say it. I'm glad that came at the five-minute part. I kept telling Jack over and over and over. Howard's the most powerful man in the world right now. He could single-handedly. I kept telling Jack over and over. I'm like, Jack, come on. Jack's like, no, man, no. So Tua didn't want to come on the watch He didn't even reach out Ra was so high when I was seeing this I love this Cruz or Hanks?

1:31:09Cruz Yeah And there's been like Kaczynski said this I think in somewhat jest But was like F2 could be Days of Thunder 2 Like we could have Hey! I saw that Cole Trickle and That's interesting

1:31:24Bill Simmons:Yeah, this is a 65-year-old F1 driver. Sounds realistic. I mean, just do it. Definitely. Just for what? Fuck it now, right? Senior tour? Like, do it. Go ahead and make a movie. What if there was just like a car racing movie and it was just Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise sitting in the stands drinking Michelob? It should be a movie where Tom Cruise has to get his driver's license renewed. Yeah. That's the movie. It's called Renewal. Yeah, Renewal. Scorsese or Spielberg Scorsese? Spielberg. Perfect movie for Spielberg, right? Yeah, I guess so. I guess so. perfect movie for Spielberg I would like Scorsese this is essentially Jurassic Park but with cars the cars are the alright fine what role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played the villain investor there's no question yeah Peter Banning Pickett Nets I have a slew of them so go ahead I mean the number one thing from what I've gathered from F1 is that Sonny would not be allowed to just fly to Abu Dhabi and race

1:32:20fly premium economy walk onto the track and be like I'm raising.

1:32:24Bill Simmons:Well, there's on top of the fact that that's like a 30-hour flight and he'd be completely jet-lagged. He's just like, where's my helmet? He's also getting in premium economy seating for like a global flight after screwing his backup. Right, the whole nine he's got to sit. Yeah, that's the thing. He's not flying more than four hours without standing up and just going up and down. They said it is a breach of Formula One rules, by the way. You have to qualify. You do yours. Well, I got one. Yeah. Have we ever paid attention to the fact that when we compare Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise, that's one thing that Tom Cruise is clearly better at.

1:32:56Brad Pitt is a terrible runner. He looks terrible. Like Seagal level bad? Not Seagal level bad. Are you saying that because of the outfits that he wears while he jogs? I'm watching him in the movie when he's running, and it was jarring to me that he was running like this. He looked terrible to me when he was running. He's a bad runner. He's a bad movie runner. Isn't he running in chucks in this movie too? He might be. That might be the reason why his Achilles might be sore.

1:33:22Bill Simmons:So I thought he was doing a bit because Sonny has a bad back trying to run. He's running in character. Maybe. I tried to think of other movies where he ran. There's a little bit of running in Troy. Troy, he looks like deadly athletic. But like in this one, the running was bad. Bad running from Pitt. No Seagal though. No, come on, man. No Seagal. Seagal just running with his hands by his sides. I have a couple of picky knits including the clumsy Pip boss blonde. What was her name? Jody. She's fired 10 minutes in the movie. You fuck that up once you're done. Is that true? No, I just think they fire her.

1:33:56Bill Simmons:Okay. They're like, oh, we'll give her another chance. She just cost you nine seconds. She's done. Gotta be careful. Fire, she goes to Ronan Farrow. I have a new award to give out. You're fucked. In picking nits? Yeah. But I think this is a new award we could carry over. It's the Michael Rooker and Cliffhanger. What the fuck are you mad about award to JP's mom? What is she mad at Sunny for? Yeah. Her fucking son Audible Then played hero ball She doesn't know what happened Crashed She doesn't know what happened She's yelling at Sonny He tells her later Yeah I know but Come on He tells her later She doesn't know what happened It's like It's actually like Isn't all that stuff on radio And captured Wouldn't anybody be like Hey Sonny's mom Like Sonny actually Well how's she gonna get to the radio She's not part of the team Yeah but it's Don't they broadcast that shit on television I don't know Listen Sonny just says Dude Yeah somebody's gotta be like Yo Sonny tried to tell him to wait And he didn't Michael Rooker is still the worst one though what are you mad at Gabe for?

1:34:56Bill Simmons:he's climbing on a line to save your dumbass girlfriend who shouldn't have been hiking? you a cliffhanger guy? I like it come on 1993 Sunny when they do the flashback come on we have better special effects than this spent 300 million on the movie and it looks like Brad Pitt wearing a wig he looks like he's like wearing Wayne's World's the old Garth wig yes just bad I wanted more realistic I sent you guys the 1984 Dallas Grand Prix on YouTube in its entirety. And it is really crazy to go back and watch how bad the TV coverage of that was. Because there's so much time with like, oh, there's a crash.

1:35:34You guys can't see it. Because we only have two cameras. And it's just like some dude hobbling out of his car. He's like, oh, that was terrible. But I don't think we caught that. But if you did.

1:35:47Bill Simmons:Poker games should have been way better. here's a really good nitpick so sunny gets out of the hospital in las vegas and the the investor comes to see him he's like i thought i'd catch you and sunny's van is in las vegas why is sunny's van in las vegas is he just driving around in a van to all these tournaments how did it get there he's no i mean it's he's been in europe yeah he's flying around with the crew How does his van get into Las Vegas? Well, the funny thing is that... How does his trailer get around all these places? That's a great nitpick. It is. Because Bardem picks him up in Florida.

1:36:22Yeah. And is like, here's a first-class ticket. Theoretically, Sonny drove his car to Nevada and put it in a parking lot. And then... A parking lot with no other cars. It's just bizarre. Yeah. He should just be getting in like an Uber. Right. Because at some point, he's globetrotting so much that the van has to be like an afterthought.

1:36:41Bill Simmons:And then the... I just don't think you can hop in an F1 car after a 30-hour flight from Abu Dhabi when you have a metal rod in your back. No. There's no way. I would also say one of my picking nits is I think F1 cars, to me, drive way too fast so that if you're having like double vision or any kind of cognitive problem while you're driving them, you're just dead. You can't be like, oh man. You're in a rocket ship. I kind of can't see Max back there. Sequel, prequel, Prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable. Too soon to say. I would go but probably sequel sequel for sure 90s prequel of Ruben and Sonny in the earlier days of F1 prequel yeah Austin Butler as Sonny F-1 F-1 yes is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins Danny Trejo Mad Dog Russo Doris Burke Buffalo Bill Sam Jackson no the rest of the crew Wilford Brimley and The Firm what do you have will you do a little bit of Mad Dog for us Mad Dog talking to Cavendish I was going to do a little Herb Street oh yeah yeah Herb Street NFL Herb Street NFL doing the game let's hear it after the crash in the final scene when JP crashes with I think Lewis Hamilton and then Sonny's gone for that last lap and Herb Street halfway through the lap goes Al I think he can win this

1:38:12Bill Simmons:he might take home the checkered flag do you think Herbstreet Michaels last day with the Seahawks Rams game were like what the fuck we actually have like a game on our hands Herbstreet didn't realize they were going for the two point conversion until they were on the ten yard line Al is out of it it was just brutal no Al is out of it Al missed that that was a long game for Al I love Al I know four hours is a lot Al is Al was like oh a touchdown Spooka Nakua, he's got it. I mean, that was the most exciting NFL game we're probably ever going to have on Thursday night. I can't believe he scored. Okay, let's go.

1:38:45Bill Simmons:If we had Kevin Harlan on that game, he'd be dead. They'd be like scraping him out of the seat. Did you have some Mad Dog or no? No, I was just, I wanted to, you're the better Mad Dog, yeah. What would Mad Dog be mad at in this movie? Just cue me up. That fact, like... Mike, they can't race in Monza when it's raining. They would change the tires, Mike. You can't go hard, soft, hard. It's like, here's impacts going through seven drivers instead of a 51-year-old sunny bunch. Just one Oscar who gets it. Probably the editing. I had the cinematography. I had the guy who invented the cameras. Yeah, so what does the camera thing go under?

1:39:26Bill Simmons:I don't do the cinematography, yeah. Probably an answerable question. I brought this up earlier, but is this movie better if Javier Bardem is dressed like Anton Chigurh the entire time? That's true. Just every scene, he's just dressed like that guy in all black with the bull haircut. Is Sonny a little bit racist in this movie? I didn't get it. Like a whiff of racist? There was like a line when he's just like, we just called that a participation trophy. I don't think so. I don't think that he is. I think he's probably, he clearly was a fuck up that had like some skeletons in his closet, but I never got that from him.

1:40:01Bill Simmons:This is Van's 2026 podcast we're launching where we go through. famous movie characters. Are they racist? A man tries to decide if there's a whiff of racism. Who do we start with? Start with Superman? Oh, Jack Nicholson, Colonel Jessup. Oh, shit. Kiefer is super racist in that. Just all the characters in Few Good Men. You just go through the whole cast. They're also all anti-Semitic. They're all like Mr. Weinberg. You, Lieutenant Weinberg. You, Lieutenant Weinberg. He hates him. Yeah, he really can't stand him. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie? What do you got?

1:40:35Bill Simmons:I got the helmet. And a part of... So the helmet is good. The helmet is good. Maybe the wreckage from one of the cars. Oh, yeah. What I would want. What I wouldn't want is the fucking card. I don't like people who throw cards. The deck of cards. That's what I was going to get you. No. Sonny's Watch. It's a good one. Watch is a good one. Trailer would be good, too. The only other thing was that racing magazine that they doctored up. Oh, yeah. I thought that would be good when they get framed. Could look right behind Van. Coach Finstack Award Best Life Lesson It's never too late To not be the best That never was anymore That's Very wise Yeah I have Create Your Own Breaks Best Double Feature Choice I have Dip Your Dip Your Pin in the Company Inc It might work out

1:41:21What? It worked out? We've seen it It's worked out You know what That is an office romance That worked out Office romances should come back Yeah Bring them back Okay Double feature I'm going Grand Prix The John Frankenheimer movie From 66 I gotta go Days of Thunder Days of Thunder Was my favorite racing movie Before this I think this is not my favorite

1:41:41Bill Simmons:Days of Thunder Because of Ruckheimer There you go And then who won the movie Brad Pitt Or F1 I'm gonna go Joe Kaczynski Joe Kaczynski I was going Brad But that's probably the answer Brad is the easy answer I think that's probably the answer Because this means more for Kaczynski Than it does for Brad I don't think the Russo brothers Could have You could fuck this movie up And he's the best. I think the answer is Brad Pitt because a little bit of a rocky last 10 years for Brad, to say the least. And then once upon a time, pulled him out of it a little bit, but I think he needed one more. Yep. Now I feel like he's bad.

1:42:16Bill Simmons:He's back and nobody talks about the off the field stuff with Brad. Jesus. Yeah, we didn't give into that. Now does Brad do, because Kaczynski's going on to do Miami Vice, does Brad hitch his wagon to Kaczynski now? and like try to get more films with him. He's doing an Edward Berger movie and something else, but I think they'll make F2 before it's too late. Yeah, before Brad gets completed. Too late, he's going to be like... He's 62. Well, there is a world for him to be like off, out of the car. I mean, he could be in the movie and sell it and it could be Damson versus... He could be the guy who runs the team.

1:42:50He could be the guy who runs the team or if they want to make Damson because Damson, to me, has a trajectory that's out of this world. Like a trajectory... Creed franchise for Damson. Something like that for Damson. Yeah. And it's perfect for him because he's, you know, English and it's a cosmopolitan world watch sport.

1:43:08Bill Simmons:God forbid he was not English. Who, Damson? Yeah. God forbid we got a win. The Americans? Yeah. It's just a bigger thing for them, like for British people. Can we get some more wins in America here? Sonny won. He won the race. I'm just saying with actors. He took it from a young black British driver. UK people taking our parts. Okay. Oh, that part I agree with you. That's what I mean. When I saw that Spielberg trailer and it was like Blunt and Josh O 'Connor pretending to be American, I was like, damn. Fucking had it. We have 50 states. It can't be... A gillion people here. It only bothers me and we've had this conversation.

1:43:42It only bothers me when it's like, I don't know, fucking David... David Yellowwood played Martin Luther King Jr. Yeah. And then Daniel Kaluuya played Fred Hampton. All of these guys are fantastic brothers, great actors. But we do need, at some point coming up now like Leroy Jenkins Jr. is Jesse Jackson. We do need at least one. Like Cynthia Erivo, Harriet Tubman. Everybody is the same. No separation. We all cool. We're together. But just give me like Darius Washington is Mecca Everest. Just give me one. I need one. Jalen Thomas. Just one of them. Coleman Domingo did Bane and Russ and all of that.

1:44:29That's the only thing for a while is getting a little spooky. Okay. Let's take our corners back.

1:44:34Bill Simmons:Yeah. Come on, guys. Thanks to Gahau. Thanks to Craig, who's not here today. Thanks to Eduardo. Thanks to Eduardo. Yeah. That was our last one of 2025. Do you want to tease what the next thing is? No. Well, we have a special episode next week. I don't want to tease it, though. What do you think? What was the best movie we did in 2025? The best movie or the best pod? What was the one near the happiest we did? I have to think about it

1:45:03I mean honestly it's like recency bias but high fidelity I was good interesting yeah that was good because of Mahoney oh you went

1:45:11Bill Simmons:oh I forgot to give him the hottest take the Rob Mahoney yeah yeah he turned the whole grunge universe against him that take pissed a lot of people I know off I liked Jaws 2 I for me my favorite one just because the movie is just crazy oh it's Halloween 2 Halloween 2 is nuts the guy getting hit by the car that was so fucking hysterical Halloween 2 is nuts Dyer 3 was fun we did a lot of good ones this year alright thanks man thanks CR

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