‘Halloween II’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

8:53Chris Ryan:my favorite location

8:54Bill Simmons:Prom Night wasn't bad either Prom Night was good that's also Jamie Lee

8:57Chris Ryan:um Sleepaway Camp would you consider that Slasher yeah yeah

9:01Bill Simmons:okay and then 82 I had even more of them including one of my all time favorites Silent Rage which is unfortunately too obscure to do in the rewatchables I love Halloween

9:10Van Lathan:I love Halloween and I love Halloween because I came to Michael Myers later. I should also say that Freddie was my just in my formative terror. It was Freddie. But I came to Michael Myers later and I like Michael Myers. Doesn't talk, walks, kills, completely strong. Couple head tilts. The whole deal. Drives. Relentless.

9:40Bill Simmons:Knows where the phone lines and the power is in every place he goes. It was about Celtic

9:45Chris Ryan:pagan rituals.

9:47Bill Simmons:We talked about that in the Halloween one pod. You assume he's possessed by some evil spirit that can then give him the answers in his head because he was in a mental institution. You wouldn't have assumed that when you first watched Halloween though. Right. By Halloween too. Because he got to keep coming back. Totally realistic. He could just find where the elementary school is. Maybe deface some pictures. Write Sam Hain on the chalkboard. Then he's off to his next stop. He can follow the Hollywood, Haddonfield Hospital signs.

10:15Van Lathan:Oh, it's to say that?

10:16Bill Simmons:Yeah.

10:16Van Lathan:So I'm taking a left here? Cool. This is my problem, or it was my problem back then with the slasher movie.

10:23Bill Simmons:Yeah.

10:23Van Lathan:Is when I would watch horror movies, I would need to feel overwhelmed. Like there's something that I cannot stop. You know?

10:31Bill Simmons:Yeah.

10:31Van Lathan:And then with Michael Myers, you know, I feel like if you can get to the car, he's just going to walk. You're out. You could blow them up. You could do stuff. That's why it was always the supernatural stuff for me. I mean, you could, if you had like, let's say you had like an RPG.

10:48Chris Ryan:Yes, if you had one, yeah. You're fucking over Michael Myers.

10:50Van Lathan:Like, if you have it, right? If you, like, if you, but for me, a lot of the horror movies that I watched, particularly during the 80s, they were all supernatural in some way. What you gonna do with Hellraiser? Right. You're fucked. You know, like Freddy, all of that. You gotta get, you gotta go, to beat guys like that, you had to go find some old ancient nun that's like, this is an evil that's been around for eons. That was the stuff that really scared me. But later on, I came to love the slasher movie.

11:18Bill Simmons:Okay. Can we talk about... You're team Freddy. I get it.

11:25Van Lathan:We haven't done a Nightmare movie yet. We haven't. We haven't done Friday. I guess my thing is, what's your issue with Freddy since you're excluding him from the rewatch?

11:32Chris Ryan:That's the thing. I can't tell if you're holding on to these and letting them accrue value or whether I actually don't want to do Voorhees.

11:39Bill Simmons:No, we should do Voorhees. I mean, the Friday the 13th have not aged great, but we should probably do... I kind of disagree. Which one do you like? I really like two.

11:49Chris Ryan:I like Final Chapter a lot. That's the one with Corey Feldman. Oh, that movie's great. Those two were really good.

11:56Bill Simmons:I do like the Corey Feldman one. That would have been a great... Feldman just should have become Voorhees. Crispin Glover's in that one? I guess he was too short. and the kid from Last American Virgin Lawrence Monison okay let's talk about worst ideas ever in a sequel for movies that I actually love because I think Myers turning out to be Laurie's brother in Halloween 2 is my second least favorite thing for a sequel I'm going to give you my top four coming in at number four Rocky losing all of his money in Rocky 5 thanks to some bad Pauly investments. Why the fuck are you letting Pauly invest anything?

12:37Bill Simmons:Can I ask you? I know you like Rocket 5.

12:38Van Lathan:Stop. It enrages me. I have an irrational, even during, even as a kid, I was fucking 10 years old or something like that. I was like, you mean to tell me this fucking guy gets his head beat in for years and years and years. For no money on Christmas. For no money that he goes back to Philly. Yeah. Tough living. Okay. Yeah, it gives and it takes. And by the way, no one to even give Rocky any real advice because there should have been someone that should have said, hey, Rocky, just to let you know, you don't have to, you're still one of the most famous guys in all of sports. You can go sign autographs.

13:18Van Lathan:You can do commercials. There's all kinds of things. By 2 % of the Eagles. There's a lot of things Rocky could have done even after Paulie lost all his money. He didn't have to become the trainer for the up-and-coming heavyweight who didn't respect him. that movie enrages me even though I like it I can't believe the decision to take all of his money

13:36Chris Ryan:and now we know he could have been in Cosa Nostra sponsored poker games that's where he could have lost his money yeah

13:41Van Lathan:come play games with the rock you can introduce him

13:43Bill Simmons:to Flappy

13:43Chris Ryan:yeah Flappy

13:45Bill Simmons:that's number four number three for me is Godfather 3 the decision to have Michael's daughter fall in love with Sonny's illegitimate son

13:54Van Lathan:yeah

13:55Bill Simmons:I can't believe nobody at any point talked Coppola out of this like wait a second this is kind of fucked up man Sonny and Michael were brothers Don't do this Not to mention Don't cast your what? So that's number three Your cousin Well, it was the first cousin I know, but I'm saying Hey, you can't It's your cousin So number two for me is It turns out Michael Myers was Laurie's brother And Laurie got Pulled away and adopted I want to go into that in a second Number one for me I've texted you both about this Another 48 hours Keo becoming the Iceman That's number one Number one it's just because it changes how you watch yeah who gives a shit

14:35Van Lathan:his brain is so

14:37Bill Simmons:I know it changes the first three hours it changes how you watch 48 Hours 1 because you're watching it going well Kio's the Iceman why is he helping him why is he telling him Reggie called like it's just it fucks up the first group it's like

14:48Chris Ryan:we watch stuff now with such a different perspective right where we're like Game of Thrones like we're gonna figure out like what this dream means and whether or not like that means a dragon's gonna fly ties into season 2 It actually does pay off when you have attention to detail like the way that Game of Thrones generally had. They were making this shit up as they went along. There are obvious scenes in Halloween 2 that are like John Carpenter's idea of like, maybe we can make this an anthology. There's stuff that they put in after the fact because they felt like it wasn't testing right, whatever it was.

15:22Chris Ryan:So it's just like when we go back and we're just like, Kehoe can't be the Iceman. It's like, or he could be.

15:29Van Lathan:They just decided he was. In this movie, you get the feeling that there was, at some point in the times that people that were making the film, that they said, why are we people watching this movie?

15:42Bill Simmons:Yeah, what's our hook for this one?

15:43Van Lathan:Yeah, like, are they watching to continue the story? The first story was so great. This movie is going to take that kinetic energy and bring you right back there. More kills, more thrills. or is there a deeper movie and a deeper motivation for Michael Myers to be this obsessed that we need to put in a movie for it to make sense to people?

16:04Chris Ryan:And they just decided to go with it. So when you arrive at that question, you arrive at like, do you think Season of the Witch is good or not? Now, I understand that that movie has detractors. I happen to be a supporter of it. But what it does is it was essentially John Carpenter and Deborah Hill's idea that the overall vibe of Halloween was the star and not Michael Myers. And that the synths, the Dean Cundey cinematography, the like, just the feeling of it, that's what Halloween is. And Michael Myers is just one character in what could be many stories that are kind of set on that night or around that night.

16:39Chris Ryan:I actually think that's right. And you're right. Them being like, well, how can we make the stakes feel higher? She has to be his sister. And that kind of feels really stapled on. Like the flashback sequences from like the sanitarium or whatever that we're seeing in the movie. Also, why are they taking her to the sanitarium? Exactly. The parents, they said the parents are dead.

17:01Bill Simmons:So the adoptive parents are like, you know, maybe she should have a relationship with her homicidal brother. Let's take her to Smith's Grove and she can just be scared by this. It makes no sense. I thought, I mean, that part makes no sense. But on top of it, I actually think the movie's better and the franchise is better when Myers has no purpose. Yes. He's just a fucking serial killer. He's a killing machine. He found, he followed, he was in his little brown station wagon and saw these three girls in Halloween one and one of them's like, hey asshole, speed kills. And he's like, that's it, I'm fucking killing this girl.

17:36That's it.

17:37Bill Simmons:There's nothing about it related.

17:40Van Lathan:But I will say that I guess what happens is with Michael's increasing resistance to death like they try to kill him every way I just we'll talk about it later on but man if women's don't get rid of that 1982 Hill Street Blues ass gun that's not doing shit

18:03Bill Simmons:yeah

18:04Van Lathan:that old ass revolver that Michael just eating those like chicklets right just pop pop pop get off

18:11Bill Simmons:there's like little BB guns he's like yeah he get hit a couple of times

18:15Van Lathan:in the head and he laughs he smiles get that shit away from here

18:18Bill Simmons:yeah but

18:19Van Lathan:with that with his increasingly you just can't be stopped, the question then would become, like, why? Is it for the love of the game? After a while, you would just think, maybe you'll stop. But if there's something deeper, maybe you can hook the audience into believing that this obsession is rooted in something. So that's why I think that the second one

18:39Chris Ryan:works so well, though, because it's the same night. So you wouldn't be like, we've called the National Garden. You know what I mean? You wouldn't be like, we've got a SEAL team on the way there's an unstoppable supernatural killer on the loose in suburban Illinois. But it's still happening. Yeah. It's like we haven't even gotten our hands around this. Halloween night is still happening in other pockets of this town. That's the funniest thing when you're watching him walk around the small town and the guy's walking by with the boombox. And I'm like, how is this not like cops are driving up and down the street on loudspeakers being like, get off the streets.

19:16Chris Ryan:Michael Myers is back.

19:18Bill Simmons:Well, that was Loomis' terrible advice in the first movie. He's like, you can't... Keep it quiet. Yeah, then everybody will see him. There'll be panic in the streets. It's like, maybe a good thing? Yeah. Yeah, this guy's a fucking serial killer. Maybe you should get the word out.

19:32Van Lathan:Yeah, Loomis is the Brian Kelly of serial killer stoppers. Loomis is literally... He's the Brian Kelly. Loomis, he has, for some reason, all the respect, but gets nothing right. just continues to take losses till somebody, you go, could somebody kill Loomis? Everything would be better if Loomis is out of here. Loomis, everything Loomis wants to, and then he just doesn't, he's not inspiring in any way.

20:00Bill Simmons:And he's wearing a brown raincoat 24 hours a day. Yeah. Even during the day when it's like 75 in Haddonfield. I don't understand anything about Loomis. Why does he have a gun? He's like a therapist. He's also died as many times as Michael Myers.

20:13Van Lathan:He has. And he's as obsessed as Myers is When I was a kid, the thing that scared me the most about this movie, though, was what you're talking about. It was the tone of the movie. It was the fact that I hadn't really seen a horror movie where the guy was just walking around and people didn't realize the type of danger that they were in.

20:34Bill Simmons:Yeah.

20:34Van Lathan:That used to bother me, right? Like, people didn't realize that death was lurking right around the corner. He was walking past them, could grab one of them at any moment. Like I said, maybe he should have. but that when I was watching it just the way that the movie was shot almost as if it were a documentary that's what used to bother me about it well

20:54Bill Simmons:what's the best version of the sequel because to me as weird as this sounds it's very similar to Rocky 2 where Rocky 1's a huge success and at some point they realize gotta do this again gotta do Rocky 2 we'll just continue it the same night and then we'll try to figure out the story as we go along but basically this time he'll win But Rocky 2 starts the same way where you see the ending of Rocky 1. Then we go into the ambulances in Rocky 2 and they're playing the music. The hospital, he goes to see Creed. But they kind of don't really have an idea for that movie other than he has to win this time.

21:28Bill Simmons:And in this one, the idea is basically the night keeps going and he just kills more people. If we had been in the room, I don't think the last part should have been rooted in the hospital. I actually like when he's just kind of moving around Haddonfield, like what you guys said, where it's scarier to just have him in the middle of normal activity.

21:48Chris Ryan:So are we pitching alternate sequel ideas here, or are you talking?

21:51Bill Simmons:I'm saying for Halloween 2 specifically, we end up in a hospital for the last hour plus of the movie, and it just becomes a hospital movie, which I could— that could be any serial killer movie. Like, the scary part is Haddonfield and him wandering around. I think that's been some of the stuff that's worked the best in the other Halloween movies.

22:08Chris Ryan:yeah I mean I think the hospital at least gives it it distinguishes it from the first one true because if you had the second one and it's just him stalking around suburban would have gone a little less

22:18Bill Simmons:hospital though maybe 40 minutes to me

22:22Van Lathan:you had to change something about the movie in order to exactly make it unique so the setting of it being kind of enclosed is kind of the different thing here I think the best version of the sequel is you think Michael's dead they're transporting him away, they get maybe like two, three hours outside of Haddonfield, right? Or even like an hour to another time. He pulls the lector? He pulls the mask off? He pulls the mask off or there's a car accident. He flies out. He grabs a scalpel and now he's rampaging around in that town. Which then gives the people in Haddonfield they're close enough for him to start killing and then for them to come from there to the new town and try to convince people that michael myers is going crazy but it's like halloween 2 one town over oh yeah oh halloween 2 colon one town over colon one town over because it's still halloween colon one town over yeah like it's still halloween and these these people like they might have heard a little bit did you hear what's happening in haddonfield or whatever whatever but it starts to happen to

23:26Bill Simmons:them could it could it just be cleveland halloween 2 cleveland let loose like yeah he's just coming coming out of a Cavs game in 1981.

23:35Chris Ryan:Unlike Jason, Mike never had away games, you know?

23:37Bill Simmons:Yeah, true. Well, I think, as I said earlier, the best thing about this movie all these years later, it's been 1981, so what's that, 44 years? The movie fucking is hilarious now. It's unbelievable. Yeah, and we'll go into some of the scenes, but the scene when Ben Tramer gets tragically killed, I can't wait to talk about that. all the stuff in the hospital oh my god I can't wait so I want to save it for when we get to the rewatchable stuff Carpenter and Debra Hill co-wrote the screenplay Carpenter didn't want to direct he ended up doing Escape from New York a beloved movie for us yes fantastic yeah handed the direction over to Rick Rosenthal and he ended up getting

24:22Chris Ryan:a little involved in filming some stuff but he had wanted this to be an anthology series and he didn't think Michael Myers was like he was like you can't build a movie around this guy and kill him at the end of every movie and then he comes back at the next movie. Oh little did he know. They ended up doing 12.

24:39Van Lathan:Were we yet in the era of the singular entity slasher movie that comes back for like 5 movies? Have we quite gotten there yet? Maybe he didn't believe in it because there was no group.

24:52Chris Ryan:The guy that doesn't die was not a concept. Yeah. Myers and Voorhees I think to my knowledge are like the first ones to be like…

25:00Bill Simmons:Well, the gimmick for part two of Friday the 13th was the mom was the murderer in part one. Right. And then part two was like, now Jason, he's come out of the water.

25:08Chris Ryan:Yeah, that's like the misnomer is you put on Friday the 13th and you're like, wait a second, this is just like a middle-aged woman with a mask. Yeah.

25:14Bill Simmons:She's the original Karen, a lot of people say.

25:16Chris Ryan:She was.

25:17Bill Simmons:Yeah. Took a lot of stuff personally.

25:19Van Lathan:There you go. Kids having sex. Middle-aged crazy. Yeah. Like the whole nine. She's like, I don't want to hop. Jason Voorhees' mom was just telling on people.

25:26Bill Simmons:Yeah. Keep it down or you die. People are taping on cell phones. Do you guys think the villain who can't die,

25:33Chris Ryan:the guy who can't die, is the key to a good horror villain or a bug?

25:37Van Lathan:Do you enjoy that he can't die or do you wish they could die? It was the key then. Now they've changed it.

25:42Bill Simmons:It's the key to the sequels. Right.

25:44Van Lathan:But do you like that as a character quality,

25:47Chris Ryan:that Michael Myers can't die?

25:48Van Lathan:It was important then because the whole movie was oriented around him. Now with the movies, it's normally supernatural stuff. And that can be different every time. What you orient the movie around now are the people that are fighting the ghosts. And so every single time, you can know that they're not, they're essentially Avengers. You can know that they're not going to die and put different, crazy. But at that point, it wasn't really about that. It was about the guy that wouldn't die until you needed him in that movie.

26:16Chris Ryan:You know what's an interesting example right now is Black Phone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where in the first Black Phone, the Ethan Hawke character is essentially like a Michael or a Freddy like outcast guy who's like preying on children. The grabber. And then in the second one, the grabber becomes supernatural. Like he's existing in people's dreams. He's haunting them. Because it's the Superman complaint, right? It's like, how interesting is this if he can't, he has no, he can't die?

26:42Van Lathan:This is, but honestly, this is what I was saying earlier. This is why they did the sister thing. Because with Freddy, you start learning new stuff about Freddy. Okay, Freddy's mom is a nun. All right, then Freddy's, mom is freddie is the bastard son of a thousand of ten thousand maniacs and so it's all you they they deepen the lore and they have to keep doing that to give you explanations to where why this thing won't go away there's nothing you really can do is just kill it for a little while and

27:10Bill Simmons:then it's coming back well let's start with the real explanation the ending of halloween one left the door open for one of the most obvious sequel opportunities we've ever had right right This guy comes back, kills some people, falls off the balcony. Lubmans looks out. He's not there anymore, and he's still out there. So I remember being a little kid. I didn't see Halloween in 78, but I saw the re-release in, I don't know, 80, when they were setting up Halloween, too. And it was just like, all right, what's next? Let's run this back. And I do think they put very little time and thought. Like Carpenter basically said, I was drunk when I came up with the sister thing.

27:50Yeah.

27:50Bill Simmons:They're just writing a script. They're taking 10 days and banging, oh, how about he's at a hospital? Oh, yeah, let's try that. And then all of a sudden, you have the whole script. I don't think this is being planned out like Pulp Fiction.

28:03Chris Ryan:Sure. So wait, what's the obvious sequel thing? It's just like he gets up and he's just still stalking around, but there's no sister problem? I don't mind the hospital thing.

28:11Bill Simmons:The unfinished business with Lori. Yeah. Gotta get her. But the thing is, they have all this, you know, sexual tension in Halloween 1 that they're pretty clear about. It's a whole Star Wars thing going on. Yeah. Yeah, and then in Halloween 2, it's like, yeah, it's his sister and she's like dropping the knife fallically. So you think he cares about that? I think maybe that's part of his thing. He likes it. I think he likes it a little bit, yeah.

28:36Van Lathan:He's into it. Kind of the same thing with Godfather 3. But how would he even know he had a sister

28:40Bill Simmons:is the other thing. He feels it. He's been locked up since he was six.

28:43Chris Ryan:We don't know how Michael knows what he knows. Yeah. Right? Right. True. So he apparently knows how to No internet Yeah but he's like an expert with how to use syringes Like how did he learn that

28:55Van Lathan:In Michael's mind Is he the good guy In Michael's mind Is there something rattling around in there Where Michael thinks That he's gotta kill all of these people Cause they're wrong But what did they do wrong Who knows There's a different reality Where Michael is like they're these bad people and I gotta get them. Isn't that always the case with these psychopaths? That is not exactly

29:23Chris Ryan:the Rob Zombie take on the character but it is closer to that. Like Michael is incredibly traumatized leading him to becoming this a little.

29:31Bill Simmons:I don't acknowledge the zombie movies. Saying it's out there. Yeah, I don't. I don't turn a blind eye

29:36Chris Ryan:to art. Sorry. Thank you very much. They happened.

29:39Bill Simmons:$2.5 million budget made$25 million. Roger Ebert, two stars. Raj. Raj. It's a little sad to witness a fall from greatness. And that's what we get in Halloween 2.

29:50Chris Ryan:How many stars would you guys give it? I think it's a two and a half.

29:55Van Lathan:I mean, in 88, we give Rod so much shit.

29:59Chris Ryan:You give it stars. How many stars would you give it? Craig, I don't like your attitude. If I was Rodney Ebert's age and I was like, I gotta grind out Halloween 2 and then see three more movies, this is exactly what I would give it. He'd be like, this is not as good as Halloween 1.

30:14Van Lathan:No nostalgia, you're right. but I gotta think about how I first saw it I was terrified so he said

30:19Bill Simmons:technically a sequel doesn't attempt to do justice to the original tries to outdo the other violent Halloween ripoffs of the last several years that's true and he said it depends of course on our old friend the idiot plot which requires that everyone in the movie behave at all times like an idiot that's necessary because if anyone used common sense the problem would be solved and the movie would be over Raj Raj did not like horror movies though he didn't like anything without story right well because

30:44Van Lathan:Because the horror movie is essentially an amusement park.

30:48Bill Simmons:Yeah.

30:48Van Lathan:Where you're paying your money, especially horror movies like this. Now, I think horror movies have learned, and they try to get a little bit more sophisticated. But you're paying money for the thrills. That's what it is. And the story just wraps around that. So, for God, it has to, like CR said, analyze the plot of the movie. It's not the point, Raj. The point is, put two people in a hot tub, made a vanilla gumbo, and then killed. killed. That's the point. That's what we came for.

31:15Bill Simmons:Turn the temperature up. Take them out one at a time. Including with the repeated drowning.

31:20Chris Ryan:The point is that this movie is not meant to be viewed at 7pm next to a Merchant Ivory film. It's supposed to be viewed when you're like we went out

31:29Bill Simmons:six high school kids go see this. They smoke pot in somebody's van. Or now

31:35Chris Ryan:when you're like I just knocked out Halloween 1 look at that. Halloween 2 is sitting right there on Peacock. Why don't we It was just like let it roll right into it.

31:42Bill Simmons:My wife and I watched Halloween 2 Saturday night and just followed it up with weapons.

31:46Chris Ryan:Oh. Yeah.

31:47Bill Simmons:Interesting. It was a horror night. It was great.

31:50Van Lathan:Your thoughts on weapons? It's fine. Okay.

31:53Chris Ryan:Yeah. It's fine. Okay. You don't like that. I didn't.

31:58Bill Simmons:I don't like his dismissal. I thought it was like a deranged Stranger Things. I liked it. I liked watching it. I would never want to watch it again. Okay. What were your thoughts? It's fine.

32:08Chris Ryan:It's good. You didn't think it was a horror macular? rather than a deranged stranger things? I thought it was really interesting. I enjoyed watching it.

32:14Van Lathan:I liked it. I liked weapons.

32:16Bill Simmons:It's fine.

32:17Van Lathan:Okay. We're all friends. We're all friends.

32:21Bill Simmons:It's all good. I liked weapons. You loved weapons. I saw it way too late in the hype game. So I was expecting Pulp Fiction crossed with Sounds of Lambs. And it's like, it's good. Okay. We'll come back with the categories after this. This episode is brought to you by Netflix. Catherine Bigelow, the Oscar-winning director of The Hurt Locker and Zero Dark Thirty, two movies we need to do in the rewatchables, is back with A House of Dynamite, a cinematic visceral thriller about America's race to respond to an anonymous missile launch. I just know I'm going to like this. Under the pressure of a ticking clock, the film's characters are called to make impossible decisions with implications for all of civilization.

33:02Bill Simmons:That includes us. While at the same time confronting their own emotions and humanity. A House of Dynamite. it's on Netflix October 24th alright most rewatchable scene Jesus Christ it rarely works when you run the ending from the previous movie but you give it slightly different they gave it like a remix it's like when they would remix 80 songs

33:26Chris Ryan:they pitched up the soundtrack the score and the first 12 minutes of this movie you're like let's fucking go

33:33Bill Simmons:it really is I have three different rewatchable scenes but he goes down he feels the blood then the neighbor comes out and we do the is this some kind of joke or something I've been trick or treating to death today you don't know what death is and then the music kicks in that's actually

33:49Chris Ryan:Loomis is cooking that is my okay motherfucker like are we going

33:54Bill Simmons:for this moment yeah it's so good I mean it's really one of the best starts because the opening credits with the pumpkin is good too and then we go right into that it's great I like after the credits I like The looking through Loomis' eyes, or looking through Myers' eyes, when you see Loomis from far away, and he sees the sheriff, he's like, I shot him six times! I shot him six times! He's just like, kind of lost his mind. They get in the car, and then Myers, we see him steal the kitchen knife. Great horror gimmick. Yes. One of my, this movie has a couple staples, Van. The, I open the door thinking someone's in there, and the door's open behind the guy, and then the door closes and now the horror movie guy is behind the door.

34:40Bill Simmons:That one, the I'm making something, I put the knife here, I walk away, I come back, the knife's gone. Another fucking staple.

34:49Chris Ryan:It's also awesome that the old couple are home watching Night of the Living Dead. Yeah. Right.

34:55Van Lathan:Shout out to George Romero and then she's cutting, what's she cutting? A big clunk of meat. It looked like liverwurst or something. Something like that.

35:01Chris Ryan:Ham? I don't know. So she's actually doing it. It's a little late. Yeah. A little late for that. And a big Coke? Yeah, so... Were we happier back then? When it was like... We don't need to think about sleep cycles and whoop scores. Yeah, there was no Apple Watch telling her not to make a ham sandwich. We just had a fucking ham and cheese sandwich at midnight and watched Night of the Living Dead. Were we happier?

35:19Van Lathan:Yeah, they're watching a zombie movie eating something disgusting. Sounds great. Let's go back. Let's like fucking... What did we do wrong?

35:25Chris Ryan:300 % of your recommended daily amount of sodium at midnight. Well, that's why the guy was in a coma. He's probably already dead. He was already fucking had a heart attack.

35:33Bill Simmons:Yeah. She's making him a ham sandwich trying to kill him. And then there's the cute... Robert Kennedy Jr. is watching this. He's like, God damn it! This is what's wrong with this country! And then there's the cute neighbor next door who gets the phone call. Do you hear what happened? Yes. There's a guy who killed stuff. It's weird. I've heard sirens. Yeah, he's still out there on the loose. And she's just fine for 20 seconds before she realizes the door's open. Who's just hanging out at home with the door open at 11 at night? But that's the whole point of Haddonfield. Haddonfield. I get it.

36:03Chris Ryan:Which was a leave-your-door-unlocked community. This is why they were able to...

36:06Van Lathan:At some point, shut the fucking door. This is why they were able to be taken... I mean, there are a lot of other towns where there would have been... And I guess there kind of was at one point. Like a lynch mob that would have formed. It does. When Loomis is like,

36:20Chris Ryan:that's the tribe.

36:22Bill Simmons:Well, Carpenter filmed this scene because he thought the movie didn't have enough kind of violence in it. Yeah. So they filmed him... Myers killing the cute neighbor. Just padding this thing.

36:31Chris Ryan:It's a stat pattern. It is.

36:32Bill Simmons:It's like taking a rebound away from the big man.

36:35Chris Ryan:Yeah, yeah.

36:36Bill Simmons:He's on a foul shot. He has the Westbrook 2017 strategy. And that leads to... Thought you were an ally, Bill. Shot for no reason. You back on the other side. That was a terrible MVP. Talk about worse like that, man. My favorite scene, not only in this movie, but maybe it's in the running for favorite horror movie scenes ever. Loomis and the sheriff kill, not Michael Myers. They just see this guy from far away. There's little kids everywhere.

37:05Van Lathan:Technically, they don't kill him. Ah, they kill him. You guys, that is the most hilarious scene. It's so good. That is the most hilarious scene. Burned, blown up, hit by car, shot, the whole thing. By the way, this is some random 17-year-old kid. And there's other kids. The unluckiest kid in the whole world. There's other kids in front of him. Loomis is ready to start firing shots. This is such a profound tragedy that the movie does not contend with at all. This would have radicalized the community. The entire community of the movie is out. There would have been in-cap graffiti all over this town.

37:43Van Lathan:This is a random kid that was incinerated, hit by a car, then shot by the police. Driving 70 miles per hour with no sirens. Later on, they play it. It barely gets lip service. Hey, this is a kid. My friend had a mask on or whatever. I think it could be like nothing it just killed

38:01Bill Simmons:my friend who's in the hit and run accident burned to death what the hell bro there's so many questions like why where was the cop coming from why was there a white van there just in the middle of the road it's the TV

38:11Chris Ryan:it's the TV production van isn't it

38:13Bill Simmons:it hits perfectly and it puts this ball of fire in the air that I don't even know how much gas was in the van and they just keep it moving and Loomis and Brackett it's like hey somebody called and they're like you deal with this and they just leave this fucking burning kid it's fucking fucking Craig what was your take as you watch this

38:36Chris Ryan:it's the most grotesque way to die they really put their whole effort into it like it's pretty he gets hit by the car and like dragged 10 feet into the other car jackknifed into a van and incinerated

38:47Van Lathan:and then he set on fire I ran it back like 3 times and he burns and

38:53Chris Ryan:by the way just nothing for. And the sad part is, aside from the tragic death of this 17-year-old child, is that's exactly the best way you could have tried to kill Michael Myers. Right, right. Pin him against a van, incinerate him, shoot him, like, do all the stuff. Nobody stays with the car. They just, I don't even know who is

39:11Bill Simmons:left behind.

39:12Chris Ryan:He gets a phone call, and they're like, Myers

39:13Bill Simmons:is at the hospital. They're like, let's go!

39:16Chris Ryan:Also, why is this kid dressed like Michael Myers? Well, in the first, he gets the mask from a gas station, so like, the mask is just, like, out there, right? It's like a it's for some reason a staple of the Haddonfield

39:28Bill Simmons:Halloween community. Well ironically it turns out to be Ben Tramer and in the first movie Lori's slutty friend was like who would you want to go to the dance with? She's like I don't know Ben Tramer asked she's like Ben Tramer you like Ben Tramer so the one kid Lori liked ends up getting gruesomely killed to death being mistaken by Michael Myers the guy who's trying to kill her. Lori bad luck with Ben.

39:50Chris Ryan:It's kind of funny how there's only like four families in Haddonfield because the sheriff, his daughter, he finds his daughter, his body and stuff like that. Yeah.

39:59Bill Simmons:Well, that's our next rewatchable scene. Sheriff sees his dead daughter. The media has... Well, hold on. Just work with me. Dana Carvey's in this scene? Dana Carvey pops up, yeah. But no speaking lines. So it's like, why is Dana Carvey here? There's all this media already in Haddonfield. Yes.

40:21Chris Ryan:which that's from a different version of the movie. Right. There's a couple of scenes in the movie where you're like, oh, that could have been what they were kind of thinking for Season of the Witch where it's a little bit more like vignette-y.

40:33Bill Simmons:Yeah. And then Sheriff Brackett who does the thing, he sees it's his daughter's dead and then he turns on Loomis. Turns on Loomis, yeah. You did this. You did this. You did this. I tried to start. You let him out!

40:50Van Lathan:Loomis completely dismisses him. Yeah. Loomis basically is like, Loomis is basically like, okay, what the fuck have I got on my face? He's still alive. Let's go. Loomis doesn't even acknowledge this man. This man just saw his daughter. It's a weirdly moving scene in the movie. He closes her eyes or whatever. I tried to tell people.

41:09Bill Simmons:I tried.

41:09Van Lathan:And Loomis just basically, I don't know, that's it. Bye. Get the hell out of here.

41:13Bill Simmons:Go home. So my favorite thing about this movie, I was going to do this later. I'll just do it now. Loomis is basically just doing bits from his stand-up comedy show that's not funny to everyone who will listen. Like, if he can get a cop trapped, and he'd be like, it'd be like if Seinfeld, if you were with Seinfeld and you were just hanging out with him and Seinfeld was like, what's the deal with Peanuts? Loomis is just, any opportunity to go, I watched him for 15 years. It's the lack of human consciousness. He's got his five things. He just wants to hit over and over again with any live body of a human patient waiting.

41:50Bill Simmons:I do like the idea, though,

41:51Chris Ryan:that this guy is now completely spun out. You know, like, over the course of the two films, it's been a day and a night. He's killed a guy who's now back to life. Yeah. You know, like, there's the situation... I shot him six times! Totally out of control. And he's just like, now I'm spinning out. And I'm just like...

42:08Van Lathan:He keeps trying to, like, convince people he's not crazy.

42:11Chris Ryan:Yeah.

42:11Van Lathan:Like, this thing is not human. I'm telling you guys, even, like, at the end of the movie where... he shoots Michael Myers again, and people are getting close to Michael Myers, and he is apoplectic. He's like, stay away from him. He's not dead. And everyone he can make his face to, he makes it.

42:31Bill Simmons:I thought Sheriff Brackett made some good points. He did let him out. He was in charge for 15 years. Did he let him out? Well, he could have stopped it. Could have told him. I don't know. Hot tub murders.

42:45Chris Ryan:Love it. Love it. I have a ton to say about this. I don't know if you want to do it here. So, she shows up 15 minutes late for her shift. Because she's been at a Halloween party.

42:54Bill Simmons:Gets chewed out by her boss. I love that scene. As time, she changes, starts to shift, and then, the creepy guy from The Accused, who turns out to be one of the rapists in The Accused seven years later, that guy. Leo Rossi. Leo Rossi.

43:10Van Lathan:That's my that guy. Yeah,

43:12Bill Simmons:he's the clear of that guy in this movie. He's like, hey, let's go basically let's hook up will meet me down in the physical therapy room. She's like, I don't know. Fine, I'll go down. Next thing we know, she's just doing a full striptease in the thing and he's in the hot tub and it's like, you guys are fucking work.

43:29Van Lathan:What are you doing? They're on, dude, my whole thing is I'm looking at it and I'm like, do she want to fuck or not? Do you guys want to do this now? Should we just fully break it down right now? Because it's like, first of all, I'm looking at it in two different ways. Number one, to legitimately have sex in the physical therapy hot tub of your job, you would have to really, really want it. But she's really hesitant. He, it goes bad.

43:58Chris Ryan:Also, like, what's the cleanup situation? There is no cleanup situation, Bill. It's so unhygienic. It's so unhygienic. It's so unhygienic. It's fucking bodily fluids in a hot tub that other people are going to use for, like, repairing their ACL surgery.

44:11Van Lathan:No, it's unbelievable. Like, they just got their shit. I'm like, I'm looking at it. Did he clean it? People got in there that just got their shit unbandaged and all kinds of different stuff that's happening in there. But then they want to do it, but then they don't want to do it. She seems drawn to him.

44:25Chris Ryan:But she's not like, let's have a quickie against this bench over here. She's like, we're going to get fully nude at work after you've been smoking a roach in the break room. For some reason, this is a massive hospital that only four people are working at because apparently Halloween night is like New Year's Eve in Haddonfield. Yeah. Nobody's there. this entire wing to themselves, which is basically the maternity ward. So they're nailing each other in a hot tub next to a bunch of newborn babies in a hot tub that apparently has a scalding temperature. Why? Why can you get up to scalding? What therapeutic...

45:02Chris Ryan:It's a great point. It's a good point.

45:03Bill Simmons:Why would you go to 160 degrees for any reason?

45:06Chris Ryan:Yeah, like, would you be like, oh, I just dipped it in for a second. No.

45:09Bill Simmons:Hold on, I'm gonna make a turkey in there. Put that to 160.

45:12Van Lathan:Bowls of eggs. then like this guy if they would have cast that role differently and that was like a young Tom this is no diss to Leo Rossi

45:22Bill Simmons:yeah no but he's like creepy he is like a scumbag he hits on like

45:26Chris Ryan:the other nurse

45:27Van Lathan:while they're in the break room he's like a true scumbag

45:29Bill Simmons:this nurse is like this is my guy this is my dude

45:31Van Lathan:and she can't stop it and then after they have their little Tris and the Tris goes back when Michael Myers comes back around and she he puts his hand on it she thinks it's the other guy's hand she starts nibbling and licking his hand?

45:44Bill Simmons:So that's another nitpick. I feel like you know right away when the serial killer is covered in blood and probably hasn't showered in a long time, it's probably not the guy. Yeah. That would be my guess. I want to shout out my wife who, as the girl's face was repeatedly getting dunked in the scalding water and she started losing stuff. My wife said, in all seriousness, this is like the peel my friend just had. A facial peel. I won't say who the friend was. Is it your witchy friend? Craig, you love nothing more than an 80s movie when there's just gratuitous nudity for no reason.

46:22Chris Ryan:Yeah, this was gratuitous. They did it. I wasn't upset by it. But yeah, this checked all the 80s boxes in this scene.

46:28Bill Simmons:Well, it even checked in the research boxes. The nurse was, the lady who played the nurse was upset that she had to have a nude scene and it turned into a whole thing on set. And you could feel her discomfort in the thing, which is, I wish I hadn't read the research.

46:41Chris Ryan:What's the character's name? the guy, the creepy guy? Bud. My counter to your entire point. If the plan is to have a romantic night and you can't leave the hospital... It's not the plan. They're at work.

46:53Van Lathan:Well, look, if that's what you want and there's a hot tub in a room... But my thing is, you're trying to hit real quick, right? You're trying to... You're at work. Yeah, just go into a room. Yeah. You don't need to do the fucking hot tub. It's beds everywhere. Just go that... They made a whole night of it. I respect the ingenuity, you know? You know, wait, by the way, Every time I see an article about the male loneliness epidemic, I think about the fact that Craig doesn't like to see titties in 1980. No, but you know what? No, no, no, no, no. I think he does. But here's the thing that they do to you.

47:24Chris Ryan:To be fair, he does. Here's the problem. I honestly don't dislike it. I'm just saying it is extremely 80s, and I can recognize how unnecessary it is for the movie. I don't hate seeing it. In the horror movies, what they do is they make you incredibly horny right before they disgust you. incite you so they'll be like oh my god they're gonna do it we're gonna get it and then it's like oh this person just got impaled or this person just got dunked in a vat of frying scalding water yeah

47:55Bill Simmons:Myers always he always shoots his wad and commits the murder before he gets to watch like it's maybe it's too early

48:02Chris Ryan:like he should turn on the hot tub maybe he's like Craig and it disgusts him you know maybe that's what it is

48:07Bill Simmons:he's making a judgment about this

48:09Chris Ryan:maybe he's like

48:10Bill Simmons:Tipper Gore now I'm at the point

48:11Chris Ryan:when I watch clean up America now when I watch 90s movies I'm almost disappointed that there's not nudity because I've seen so many like when we watch Sneakers that scene with the mistress I'm like what are we doing here could have seen that yeah you're gonna do it do it you're gonna be getting out

48:27Bill Simmons:in a physical therapy hot tub I do think this is one of the better horror movie murders of the 80s the repeated the fit when they the face comes up and there's less skin I just thought it was probably the best murder of uh This whole thing. It was the iconic murder of this movie. But we also had a hypodermic needle double murder.

48:47Chris Ryan:Yep. Into the side.

48:49Bill Simmons:That was good.

48:49Chris Ryan:With the alcoholic doctor who is the only doctor at the hospital.

48:53Bill Simmons:Yeah, what's up with that guy? Yeah. Meyer's stabbing Lori, but it's a bunch of pillows. Lori's on the loose. We get a scalpel murder where he lifts that one cute blonde nurse up from the back with the scalpel, but gets her up in the air. I'm going to say, I don't know how he does that. I don't know if the scalpel's holding on. You think? If the scalpel would have. You mean the physics of it. Can you lift somebody up 18 feet with a scalpel that's like, I don't know, this long? Yeah, I didn't get that either. I'm going to say like something weird happens. Lori Chase. I like when Lori hides in the car.

49:26Bill Simmons:And then Loomis in the hospital, when he brings everybody in there, and he says to the one lady like, you stay with me and shut up. I also like he's like it's Loomis time he shoots Myers five more times so Myers now has 11 bullets and the guy goes over to make sure he's dead he's like no get away get away get away from us no

49:52Van Lathan:Loomis you guys Loomis' descent into madness is so awesome

49:58Chris Ryan:I mean it hits its peak when they're in the cop car and it's Marion and Loomis and the marshal yeah and Loomis is like I'm taking you hostage marshal and he's like yeah you can't do that he shoots a gun off by his head he's like and threw out the window yeah it's just like this guy has completely left left earth

50:14Bill Simmons:well we keep going in that scene Myers gets the two shots in the eyes perfect shooting from Laurie yeah I really enjoy blind Myers trying to just stab people crying blood yeah and then Loomis is like how many patients in this hospital like 12 how many babies we know it's a full maternity ward yeah how many babies 6 I'm gonna blow up the hospital anyway. Myers has to go. I'll take out these other 25 people. This just has to happen. No thought whatsoever. Yeah. What do you have for most rewatchable, Sierra? For me, it's Ben Tramer. It's just that whole thing.

50:56Van Lathan:It's the funniest scene. It's got to be Ben, man. It's so absurd. What about telling his parents,

51:04Bill Simmons:hey, bad news, your son's dead. What happened? well these guys hit him and then they left but they were cops

51:10Chris Ryan:it's every five years I forget that scene and so I'll watch it and I'll be like wait what?

51:16Van Lathan:I was waiting I was I didn't know if Craig had seen it or not yeah I was waiting for the text into the group chat from Craig about that scene do you think when they were editing

51:29Bill Simmons:the movie at any point the director and the editor were like

51:33Van Lathan:yeah was this weird that this kid just dies out of nowhere They went, this is badass. You could tell how much they admired the scene when they made it. Yeah. Oh, they were fucking high-fiving on the set.

51:43Chris Ryan:Going nuts. They were like, we got him. It's a real set piece, yeah.

51:47Bill Simmons:What's the most 1981 thing about this movie, other than a kid walking downtown with a boombox at 11 o 'clock at night?

51:55Van Lathan:I had to pass a Datsun truck.

51:58Bill Simmons:Yeah. That's got to be the winner.

52:00Chris Ryan:When did nurses stop dressing like that? Ah, I have it. The little hats that nurses wear. Yeah, the hats. Little hats.

52:07Bill Simmons:Should come back?

52:08Chris Ryan:Well, I just am curious when it stopped.

52:12Bill Simmons:Probably late 90s. I don't know. Somewhere in there.

52:14Chris Ryan:You think in like 96, they're still walking around? You don't know.

52:17Bill Simmons:We used to have nice things. We used to have flight attendants that dress like that. We used to have nurses.

52:21Van Lathan:Why did you even? You don't know when they stopped wearing hats. He wanted an answer.

52:25Chris Ryan:I just felt like he needed an answer.

52:27Bill Simmons:I don't know the answers.

52:29Chris Ryan:You said it so authoritatively, though. Yeah, it's like late 90s. Yeah. It's a Clinton thing. Yeah. Clint. These ladies, they work hard.

52:41Van Lathan:Something happened in 1997 and they stopped wearing hats. The hats are gone.

52:46Bill Simmons:A couple more. Turning on a transistor radio to get the news.

52:50Van Lathan:Walkie-talkies.

52:53Bill Simmons:And then the other one that I think is in the running here. A little kid getting hurt with the Apple Razorblade Halloween thing. Which is the all-time urban legend. I don't know if it ever actually happened.

53:03Chris Ryan:That was supposed to be a season of The Witch thing.

53:05Bill Simmons:Yeah, the fear of that in the late 70s, early 80s was a real thing.

53:08Chris Ryan:But that is actually like one of my favorite parts of this movie is the fact that, intentionally or not, there will be moments where you're like, oh, is this newscaster, the blonde newscaster, or is this mom and kid? Are they going to be like major parts of the movie? And then they just never come back.

53:23Van Lathan:You know what I wonder? Because there was something that existed. Halloween, which we haven't really talked about at least a couple of parts I've done about these movies with you guys. Halloween has completely taken on like a new sort of, it's a very durable holiday.

53:39Bill Simmons:Yeah.

53:40Van Lathan:Because it's shifted its focus almost completely towards adults. And, you know, dressing up like Velma with no underwear on and all of that stuff. It's like totally changed, right? And one reason why. What? Y 'all never seen the. Velma with no underwear on. Y 'all got different algorithms. Y 'all never see these sexy Velma videos and the girl, oh, it's Halloween, she's Velma. And then all of a sudden she turns around and she starts dancing and you go, oh, this is a different type of advertisement. What's that link tree saying? That hasn't gotten served to me. Okay. Yeah. So.

54:19Van Lathan:I'm doing something wrong. But part of the reason why Halloween became for adults was because it became like unsafe So many of these urban legends came out about the candy at Halloween, the razor blades, guys going out and trying to get kids and all of that. And I do really feel like this movie and Michael Myers going on a killing spree on Halloween, it was part of kind of, you could get fucked up a little bit.

54:48Bill Simmons:Did you have in your neighborhood the alleged house where somebody got fucked with with Halloween candy?

54:54Chris Ryan:There was one, I think, that had like a Rottweiler. So there was like a lot of fear about the dog. and then there were a couple of like, that's old man blank blank's house and he, you know, don't knock there. Not, I mean, I have no idea.

55:07Bill Simmons:We had one when I was little in Brookline. The thing allegedly happened and I just assumed it happened, but now I wonder if it happened.

55:15Chris Ryan:What thing?

55:15Bill Simmons:Where we heard that a kid ate the razor blade and it was this house and this house did it. And now I have no idea if it actually happened. Oh, I thought it was something different.

55:23Van Lathan:I thought they accused that neighbor of giving candy to black kids.

55:33and the whole neighborhood was like

55:36Van Lathan:oh my god dude that guy's crazy don't go by his house

55:41Bill Simmons:I knew it was going to be a good one oh man what's age the best do you like the dopey Halloween 2 electronic score not as much as the first not as good as the first one but I admire the effort. And the score in three is sick. The score in three is good. Rocky 2, the beginning of Rocky 2. Yeah. We're talking way too much about Rocky 2. Well, we just have to do it. What stage is the best? Being in a creepy small hospital at night after seeing this movie. I don't know if you guys have been in a hospital where you're like, oh, it's like fucking Halloween 2 in here. It just feels like there's not enough people in the hospital and it's kind of shocking.

56:31Bill Simmons:Oh, it's totally terrifying.

56:33Chris Ryan:It's a fantastic place to set a horror movie.

56:35Bill Simmons:It's both the most unrealistic thing about this movie, but it's also kind of realistic because I do think this happens.

56:40Van Lathan:Yeah, hospitals are creepy. And if you've been at one, if you've been visiting, and I hope everybody's family and friends are healthy and all of that, but if you've been visiting somebody and you're in a hospital at a certain time. They clear out. They clear out. There's nobody there. A lot of times, they're letting you stay there because there's somebody that you love. And it's eerie. Cobra got into this too.

57:04Bill Simmons:Cobra? Cobra was slashed alone. When he goes to save Brigitte Nielsen, there's a whole creepy hospital thing. What's age the best? Well, what do you have? I have a couple.

57:13Chris Ryan:The fact that this movie saves the setup for 30 minutes in. So the setup is just Halloween 1 keeps going. This then traditional horror movie setup really doesn't start until the paramedics and the nurse are hanging out at the hospital and it's real quiet and the sex scene and all that. So I love the way they flip that. I mentioned making someone incredibly horny before you discuss them with something repulsively violent. That age the best. And then a lot of the things that are like messy or wrong about this movie, like the newscaster or the kid with the bloody lip, kind of give it color and life a little bit to me.

57:52Chris Ryan:So that's, yeah.

57:53Van Lathan:So Halloween itself, just like I said, it's like more, it's past Thanksgiving. It's the second holiday of this season now. But also the variety of kills. The variety of kills. Hammer, scalpel. Hammer, scalpel. Scalding water. All of this stuff. Hyperdermic needle. This movie is part of the technology of the guy can't just kill you with an axe every single time, kill you with a knife every single time. he's got to do we have to have different set pieces that are based around how the serial killer kills you to up the thrills this movie like does that really well

58:28Bill Simmons:how do you feel about not seeing all the murders Like, we don't get to see the black nurse get killed. We don't get to see Drunk Doctor get killed.

58:36Chris Ryan:Black nurse, like, that would have just been too torturous to watch. Because she's getting her blood drained from her body.

58:41Van Lathan:I thought about that, and we'll talk about that a little bit more later.

58:43Bill Simmons:Okay, can't wait. Pleasance hosted SNL on Halloween 1981 to promote Halloween 2. No, he didn't. During the first, like, breakout Eddie Murphy season. And it was the same episode that John Belushi insisted they had this punk band called Fear Ones. and fear had complete chaos and it became this legendary SNL moment. And that was all because of Donald Pleasance who in the oral history book, they were basically like, he was this drunk guy who couldn't remember his lines. That was the Donald Pleasance scouting report. So kudos to him. I like the, I'm telling you this isn't a man. He just, that's like his, that's his West Coast offense.

59:22Bill Simmons:Yes. Anytime he can shift it to trying to convince somebody, we're not talking about a human being here. Loomis will do that. There's nothing behind those eyes. Yeah. Myers following the signs to Haddonfield Hospital is so fucking funny. When he walks past the kid with the boombox, he hears the news report, and there's just this giant sign that says, Haddonfield Hospital this way, and Myers is like doing the Myers walk. And then Myers cuts all the phone lines, kills the main lights, slashes every tire in the parking lot, kills the security guard, cuts fuel lines out the empty. Cuts fuel lines, kills the ER doctor, four nurses, in like 45 minutes.

1:00:04Bill Simmons:It's like really efficient. It decimates the medical industry there. Like just like, just purposeful, goes through, knows what to do.

1:00:12Van Lathan:Takes out the communication, the transportation, decapitates the intelligentsia of the hospital by taking out the doctor so they couldn't rally around. He's like the joker. He's the original hacker. Right.

1:00:24Bill Simmons:Any other words say he's the best?

1:00:25Chris Ryan:No, never. I have Mike in the maternity ward is actually like one of the creepiest images.

1:00:30Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:00:31Chris Ryan:in the entire series.

1:00:32Bill Simmons:Where were... I asked... My wife and I were talking about that. Where were the parents when these kids were just asleep to the maternity ward? At a Halloween party, probably. Yeah, it was just kind of the way it went. Or when you used the hot tub? Yeah, right. We're going to get there right after you guys. Big Kahuna Burger where best use of food or drink. Probably the Apple Razorblade. Yeah. I had the sandwich getting made, but yeah. Oh, the sandwich was getting made. Yeah, that's good. What'd you have for Great Shot Gordo?

1:00:58Chris Ryan:Myers appearing behind Nurse Jill when she finds Dr. Mixter with the needle in his eye. Oh, yeah. And she's like, doctor, doctor. And then Myers just steps into the light. Yeah, it's awesome.

1:01:09Bill Simmons:Always works. Kid Cudi, Pursuit of Happiness, where best needle drop, Mr. Sandman, I think is the answer there. Best character name? Bud Scarlatti. Bud Scarlatti. Okay. Sierra, you got a flex category?

1:01:22Chris Ryan:Got a couple things here. I mentioned Okay Motherfucker Award for when the movie goes up a notch for You Don't Know What Death Is. It's really good. The Steven Seagal Hard to Kill Award did this movie need a bit better intimacy coordinator. It does sound like Pamela Shook did not enjoy her experience. She's not a big fan. She was told that there were going to be a closed set and there was like 19 dudes standing around watching her. And at one point she was being encouraged to do full frontal and Debra Hill had to step in and be like you do not have to do that.

1:01:52Bill Simmons:Early 80s were rough. Rough times. The Butch's Girlfriend Award for weak link of the film.

1:02:01Chris Ryan:I got this. Can I do this real quick? I think we're all going to have one. This is also my Luke Wilson. Okay. I just think Lori's a zero in this movie.

1:02:10Van Lathan:It's clearly Lori.

1:02:12Chris Ryan:And we talked about this a bit when we did four, but I just think it's not only is it the over-mythologizing Michael and Lori's relationship, which I don't like, but just incapacitating Jamie Lee Curtis for the entire movie and having her essentially in a fugue state. It's a terrible choice. It's kind of like use her or don't have her. Use her or have her taken to a different hospital.

1:02:33Bill Simmons:Myers has more personality than Laurie in this movie, and he can't speak.

1:02:36Van Lathan:Totally Fridger in the entire movie. And then, this is why Halloween 2, One Town Over. You're absolutely right about that. Because if you're not going to give her anything to do, why have her in the movie as a living, breathing sort of...

1:02:54Bill Simmons:The move is they should have killed her 40 minutes in.

1:02:56Van Lathan:Well, that would have been fucking insane.

1:02:58Bill Simmons:And then he should have moved on

1:03:00Chris Ryan:and tried to get more people. But it's like, if they had taken her, like, oh, we can't use Haddonfield Memorial. We need a better hospital. And they have to take her to Joliet or the fuck they take her. I have no idea. But if he's rampaging around Haddonfield looking for her, but she's not there. And then maybe at the end of the movie, she comes back and does something. I don't know. But yeah, like I just think having her -

1:03:21Bill Simmons:She's in like the last two scenes?

1:03:22Chris Ryan:Having a bad reaction to the parallel. It's like, it would be like if you paid$60 million

1:03:27Bill Simmons:for A.J. Brown and Devonta Smith and then never threw the ball to them.

1:03:31Van Lathan:Honestly, it would be like that. They're winning.

1:03:35Bill Simmons:Do you have a weak link? Same one? I have a different weak link because I'm so used to how bad they use Laurie in this movie. Dick Warlock plays Myers in this movie. I can't believe that's a real... Too short. He's too stiff. He's too robotic. The mask doesn't really fit his head at some points the mask it's just because they're using the mask from the first movie and he plays Myers like Myers has CTE from falling off the balcony he's just kind of like like he's like a zombie he has been shot many times shot many and maybe that was his thinking but I just I like the Myers in one is just so much more athletic do you think Dick Warlock

1:04:18Chris Ryan:was going up to Rosenthal and being like I have a new take on this character I think he was I really do

1:04:22Bill Simmons:I think he's like I think this guy so I dove into the Halloween community and was reading I had no idea there's a Halloween movies Reddit and people argue about the movies and stuff. Did you get involved? I didn't. I did think about it for a second. I had some Halloween takes I wanted to get off. Bill be a Reddit power user but only for Halloween. Just for Halloween movies, that's it. What was interesting, there's a whole Dick Warlock contingent. Where they were like Dick and Mike. Myers should have been more of a zombie. Um, this is, he had been shot this time. His body was still in shock. Like people are really putting thought into this.

1:05:03Van Lathan:Dick had a real. He had an angle. An angle of looking at the character. For sure. You think he ever considered Richard Warlock? Dick Warlock. Or Rich Warlock. Dick Warlock. He was like, we don't have Dick's anymore.

1:05:14Chris Ryan:Early 80s.

1:05:14Bill Simmons:Yeah, early 80s we still had Dick's. Dick Warlock is an all-time name. What's age the worst? Jamie Lee's wig is number one for me. So she had to film another movie. had shorter hair for it. I think it might have even been trading places. And you could just see the wig, especially now that the screens are nicer. What do you have, Sierra?

1:05:37Chris Ryan:I think, aside from all the stuff about the nurse and the paramedic having sex in the PT hot tub, the facial, the acting, the directing, and the facial expression of the marshal when Marion Chambers shows up and Donald Pleasence, his character, Bloomis does not recognize his assistant. He's like, oh, I didn't recognize you. He's like, that was two days ago that you probably saw her. It was the day before. But when she's just like, Dr. Loomis, we've unsealed. The governor has unsealed a file. It turns out Lori Strode is Michael Myers' sister. And the cop driving the car is just like, straight staring through the windshield thinking about the Cubs.

1:06:22Chris Ryan:He's like, he has not picked up a single fucking piece of it for me. he's like Ron Say you know he's just like naming guys

1:06:32Van Lathan:oh my god that's hilarious whenever I watch horror movies and this one has a lot of it I'm always taken by the advances in fake blood that have happened over the course of the last 30 or 40 years

1:06:46Bill Simmons:you could see with Annie when they show Sheriff Brackett's daughter like the slit throat just like super fake

1:06:51Van Lathan:super fake yeah

1:06:52Bill Simmons:that's a good one

1:06:53Van Lathan:it'd be better

1:06:54Bill Simmons:I don't like Myers breaking into the school at all just to write Sam Hain and stick a knife through the daughter and the family painting. I don't know why, how he fit that into his busy agenda after being shot six times. Just had some questions. The Myers mask. So it's interesting. It is the same mask as the first movie, which I didn't realize. I don't, I always thought they lost the mask, but I think they lost it after this movie. And it said the paint was faded because is Debra Hill kept the mask under her bed for two years and it collected dust and turned yellow because she was a heavy smoker.

1:07:28Bill Simmons:I love this. She sounded like your kind of lady.

1:07:31Chris Ryan:It's a nicotine-stained Michael Myers mask.

1:07:34Bill Simmons:And then because Warlock's head was different, so the mask fit differently. How many cigs do you have to rip?

1:07:42Van Lathan:For a mask to actually change color?

1:07:46Chris Ryan:I mean, people really were chain-smoking back then still.

1:07:52Bill Simmons:You have any what's age the worst, Craig?

1:07:56Chris Ryan:Hot tub facials? Do you think she died by drowning or by burning? Or did he try to time it so it was burning at the same time? I think it was the burns.

1:08:03Bill Simmons:I think it was the burns. Good question, Craig. I have a great one, but I think it's more of a nitpick, so I'm going to save it. The Ruffalo Hannah Rubik Partridge overacting word. The old ER doctor? Do you think he played the character intentionally that way? It's just like, I'm just going to be a drunk guy? Why was he getting drunk?

1:08:19Chris Ryan:Yeah, why is he? Like, why was he getting drunk at his country club? Was he on shift? It's inexplicable.

1:08:26Bill Simmons:Right. Was it supposed to be funny? He's like, Oh, that's lawyer. It's like, what's going on?

1:08:34Chris Ryan:And why is this guy an ER doctor? He's like 60 years old. I guess the idea is that the town only has one doctor, but like it's a pretty big hospital for one doctor.

1:08:42Bill Simmons:Did you have a flex category?

1:08:43Van Lathan:I do. Did this movie need a random sports scene? Oh, Ed Norton. Yeah, Ed Norton. we desperately could have had a football scene here. Oh, like a Haddonfield high school football game? Homecoming football is happening earlier, or at least, you know, it's Halloween night. It's the same thing. Maybe not a football game, but maybe the team's together. Maybe the team's together. It's Halloween night. We fucking got to play Cheneyville. Oh, fuck, we played them. We fucking killed them. Yeah, and then Michael just goes in and rips them to pieces. My quarterback watches the tape. The cheerleaders, he would have liked that.

1:09:15Van Lathan:Fucking offensive linemen try to step up. That's my fucking quarterback. Get the fuck out of here, bro.

1:09:20Chris Ryan:Mike could have even suited up as tight end or something.

1:09:22Van Lathan:Yeah, and got out there and caught a couple passes.

1:09:24Bill Simmons:This is getting really exciting, guys.

1:09:26Chris Ryan:He's Tyler Warren out there, basically. Yeah, he's doing his fucking thing.

1:09:29Bill Simmons:I think it should be terrible because he goes too slow.

1:09:31Van Lathan:But I mean, they throw him a screen pass. But you could not bring him down. No, that's true. He's going to mummy his way all the way to the... So much stuff could have been.

1:09:40Bill Simmons:That's really good. CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford had his take awards. So you did yours. Laurie Strode, yeah. Did you have one?

1:09:46Van Lathan:Yes. I believe that Michael Myers was radicalized by the OJ trial. That hadn't happened yet? Hadn't happened yet. This is just overall, not in this movie. So I looked this up. As I saw this movie, I realized that in the movies that I've watched, Michael Myers didn't kill any black people on screen. A black lady dies in this, but we see her after.

1:10:10Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:10:10Van Lathan:It's like Michael Myers, maybe he killed her, maybe he didn't. We don't even know. Oh yeah, somebody else could have killed her. Michael Myers did not kill a black person on screen until 2002's Halloween, was it Resurrection? Yeah, that's the one where it's set in the reality show. Right. I'm thinking to myself, so Michael Myers, this entire time, you could make an argument. He's been an ally. Yeah, right? What would have happened in the 90s for Michael Myers to go, you know what? Nah, fuck that. I got to get my revenge. Oh, so you think... The OJ trial.

1:10:47Chris Ryan:Yeah.

1:10:47Van Lathan:I think Michael Myers was in the institution. They got Court TV. It's playing nonstop. He's watching Leno every night. He's watching Leno, the dancing Itos. It's all getting into Myers' head. And Myers is seeing what he thinks is this crazy injustice. And he goes, fuck it. I got to get my get back. And then, by the time 2000... That movie, he killed Tyra Banks in that movie.

1:11:10Chris Ryan:Do you think that years later, Mike gets re-radicalized by seeing one battle after another? And he's like, Profitia got a wrong deal in this movie?

1:11:20Van Lathan:Exactly, right? I think he's really affected by what happens in pop culture. I think it really gets inside of his head. So when I'm watching this, because I did a whole breakdown. I don't know if you can see this. But Michael Myers then goes crazy with giving love, killing, to the community. He starts putting up numbers. After this.

1:11:41Bill Simmons:He's like De Niro.

1:11:42Van Lathan:Yeah. Be careful. That's one of our guys. I know. That's what I mean. He gave a lot of love to the community. He loves the community. He loves the community. He loves. He really does. The community. Robert De Niro is a lover of the community. But in the Rob Zombie films, you got three. The Blumhouse Tricks, three. So all of this is coming. It doesn't really start until 2002. I was thinking to myself, it had to be the OJ trial. had to be. Even the nurse in this movie. Nurse Alves.

1:12:15Bill Simmons:We don't see it.

1:12:16Van Lathan:That's what I'm saying. We don't see. She's there, but we don't see it. That could have happened. The dude that we thought was Michael Myers that got incinerated, he could have killed her. We can't put that one on Mike is my point.

1:12:28Bill Simmons:My hottest take, I think the general consensus is the Home Alone parents are the worst movie parents of all time. Right? Yeah. Just not only do they lose the kid once, they lose him again in Home Alone 2. I actually think it's Laurie Strode's parents. Like, let's really think about this. Laurie's babysitting. The parents are at some sort of Halloween party. Like a key party or something. Yeah, they're basically at it. We've covered this in Halloween 1. They must have been at an Eyes Wide Shut party. But at some point, at some point, this becomes the story in Haddonfield, right? I know we didn't have the internet back then, but the serial murder, multiple people were killed, including the sheriff's daughter, and their daughter was stabbed, got away, and is now at the hospital.

1:13:12Bill Simmons:This fucking girl's at the hospital all night. The parents are never there. Even in the morning at the end of the movie, and the ambulance is taking her away, still no parents. Do you think... Where were her fucking parents?

1:13:22Chris Ryan:You can make the argument that that is... That is played... Plays into the idea that Michael's her... That it's not their biological daughter. And they're like, Oh, see, like, now she's a true Myers. She's not our daughter anymore. Oh, you think they, like, disowned her? Basically. Because Mike tried to kill her? Yeah.

1:13:38Bill Simmons:Well, where were they? At some point, they have to come back. They get loosely written out of this movie, yeah. I think all the parenting in this movie is terrible, Van. I agree. Sheriff Brackett, Halloween 1, Loomis is like, this guy's a fucking serial killer. We got to get this guy. He's not human. And he's like, yeah, well, my daughter's doing some babysitting tonight. I'm not going to give her a heads up to get out of it. None of the parents care about the kids, but I think this was what the 70s were like.

1:14:02Van Lathan:Yeah.

1:14:03Bill Simmons:Taking advantage of the fact that the kids were kind of just let loose. Kids just kind of did their own thing. and parents were like yeah parents were like just don't get hit by a car was basically the attitude but I don't know what happened to Lori's parents we just never saw them at no point did they go to the hospital

1:14:16Chris Ryan:and check her out I think it's actually introducing them you either have to kill them or they would be arguing the entire premise of the movie yeah or they were into some fucking kinky shit

1:14:27Bill Simmons:in that movie like this is like an all night ice storm kind of session like ice storm yeah they're ice storming it the key party

1:14:35Van Lathan:I love that movie the key party So they're like five Quaaludes in. Yeah. They can't even. It's like Plato's Retreat. Yeah. It's like Leo in Wolf of Wall Street. Yeah. They just all whatever. They don't even realize they have a daughter.

1:14:49Chris Ryan:Who's Laurie?

1:14:50Van Lathan:Who's that?

1:14:53Bill Simmons:I have a special category just for CR. Oh. The Edie Falco and Copland Award for the character that got three times hotter by smoking. Loomis' assistant, the rabbit and red nurse from Halloween 1. Oh, Marion Chambers? Yeah. She breaks out the cig, gets the thing from Loomis, and just starts smoking a dart. She looked pretty good. She did. A little milfy.

1:15:11Chris Ryan:What's her name?

1:15:12Van Lathan:Marion Chambers. Marion Chambers.

1:15:14Bill Simmons:She's in the first one.

1:15:15Van Lathan:I thought you said Marilyn Chambers. No, I didn't. I was about to say, I would have recognized her.

1:15:19Bill Simmons:She's in the first one. She's in the car driving to go to the sanitarium. She sees that, like, yeah, he tries to. He's like, don't you think you could refer to it as him? And he's like, if you say so. And they just have, like, the weirdest exchange. Bill's really good at Loomis. Yeah. Bill is Loomis. You're doing good Loomis. Bill is Loomis. It is funny that she's like,

1:15:39Chris Ryan:why did the governor unseal a file but there's no cops on the streets? You know why I'm good at Loomis? Because I've watched him for 48 years.

1:15:52Bill Simmons:Staring at the screen. Staring through the screen. You look into Chris's eyes. There's nothing there.

1:15:58Chris Ryan:I like when he goes, this is their wake. One of their tribe has been taken. Craig.

1:16:05Bill Simmons:I talked about my buddy from high school, Jeff Gallo. Like, one of the first things we bonded over was how fucking funny Dr. Loomis was. Like, literally, I think it was the number one thing. We just couldn't get enough of the comedy of him. Speaking of comedy, the Van Lathan Award for Did This Movie Need More Black People? We rarely get to give this out.

1:16:23Van Lathan:Yeah.

1:16:23Bill Simmons:Now, the case, you could say yes, because there's only one black character. You could say no, because we are in Haddonfield, and it seems like white people land. So, what's the answer?

1:16:33Van Lathan:So, it's not But I did. It's no. It doesn't need more black people. But I appreciated something about this movie. I wrote this down in this category. The movie's woke. It's a very woke movie. Okay. There's a scene in this movie where a black nurse lectures. A white woman, yeah. A white woman on the virtue of being on time. And professionalism. And professionalism. I saw that. I was like, I see what y 'all doing.

1:17:02Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:17:03Van Lathan:Black nurse consummate professional Yeah Whatever She got killed I don't think it was Michael Myers I think it was somebody else What's up with this? Why don't you think it was Michael Myers? Why him? Because Michael He's too intentional I just don't think it was Michael Myers

1:17:15Bill Simmons:He was framed

1:17:16Van Lathan:I think he was framed I think he was framed I think he was killed After the OJ trial But they did that on purpose To put a message in the movie Look We care about our jobs Appreciate it

1:17:25Bill Simmons:Casting what ifs Couldn't find any Best that guy word Leo Rossi I got a different one Oh okay Yeah

1:17:30Chris Ryan:Jeffrey Kramer, who's the mortician in this movie, is also Roy Scheider's deputy in Jaws. Oh! Yeah. Great. He's the deputy Hendrix.

1:17:40Bill Simmons:Another category we don't get to give out often. Best IMDb stat padding. Dana Carvey just getting to be in the credits. It just feels like a bigger movie.

1:17:49Chris Ryan:Had you ever seen Nurse Karen, played by Pamela Susan Shoup? She was on The Fall Guy, Mod Squad, BJ and the Bear. No? Simon and Simon? Was there Charlie's Angels in there? No, Wonder Woman, The Incredible Hulk, and Berger.

1:18:03Bill Simmons:She definitely bounced around in those roles. There was a lot of... There were the handsome guys who might become evil that were always on Charlie's Angels or Love Boat. Yeah. Then a lot of Pamela Shoups just bouncing around those different TV shows.

1:18:15Van Lathan:Was Dana Carvey in this enough to do what they started doing in the mid to late 90s? Was he good enough to do a VHS cover re-editing? No, because he doesn't speak. Yeah. Dana Carvey blows up.

1:18:30Bill Simmons:That was Tom Hanks that time.

1:18:32Van Lathan:Dana Carvey blows up, and then it's like Halloween 2, and they got the cast on there. I think he said before on Pods where he's like,

1:18:39Chris Ryan:I brought all my friends to the theater to see this. He claimed he had some lines. I don't know if I believe it.

1:18:45Bill Simmons:Deion Waiter's award. I think that has to go to Ben Tramer for one of the funniest 45-second cameos of all time.

1:18:51Van Lathan:Legitimately a heat check.

1:18:53Bill Simmons:Recasting couch director of City. Tom Hanks says Jimmy. Jimmy. The Lance Guest part? Yeah. Yeah. He had the hair. Kind of looked like Tom Hanks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Heather Thomas as the blonde nurse. She's get her in this. Love her. No? Catherine Bach as the Pamela Shoup character.

1:19:15Chris Ryan:You're hitting up some names I'm not. Who's Heather Thomas? Heather Thomas from The Fall Guy. Okay. You know her.

1:19:21Bill Simmons:Come on. Okay. You know her.

1:19:23Van Lathan:Sorry. Well, there's a... Whatever, I'm not even talking about it.

1:19:26Bill Simmons:Not big in Pennsylvania.

1:19:27Van Lathan:Yeah, yeah, you know. That's right. It was big in Pennsylvania. I'm going to get that there.

1:19:31Bill Simmons:One more break and then Craig's got to flex. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. There's nothing better than having friends that support you and your passions. Or maybe even a wife. Like when I told my wife we have to go see the new Paul Thomas Anderson movie. And we went to a 4.30 Monday screening. And I was so passionate about it that I skipped Monday Night Football and just watched it later on DVR. If you really love something, you need the support system around you. Like those friends, State Farm, there to help you along the way. With so many coverage options, it's nice knowing you have support in finding what fits for you.

1:20:12Bill Simmons:Go online at statefarm.com or use the award-winning app to get help from one of their local agents. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. All right, Craig, what's your flex?

1:20:23Chris Ryan:We don't have an unintentional comedy category.

1:20:25Bill Simmons:category not not it's kind of moved into what's age the best but you can do it here yeah it's

1:20:30Chris Ryan:just one final unintentional comedy moment in this movie like basically the last scene one kind of last lack of attention detail i just love when the paramedic is bringing laurie out towards the ambulance and she's had an ankle injury the whole day yeah she like basically has a camp scataboo she can't walk yeah and it's he just gets her out of her wheelchair and has to put her into the back of the ambulance and there's no like stretcher up and he just goes big step and she's kind of like take a jump doesn't she also say I want to ride up front and he's like nah I can't do it he makes her get up out of the wheelchair and he goes big step now and she's going to put all the weight on it it's so good

1:21:09Bill Simmons:there's apparently an alternate ending when she's in the ambulance with Jimmy that they cut

1:21:14Chris Ryan:oh okay

1:21:14Bill Simmons:yeah you don't know if Jimmy died or not what was Jimmy's injury

1:21:19Chris Ryan:Broken ribs, collapsed lung?

1:21:20Bill Simmons:No, he fell back.

1:21:22Chris Ryan:So concussion or something. Concussion, like fracture of the skull. Yeah, he had to go in the blue tent. That's a low-key Ruffalo Rubinick moment is his like, I'm injured acting. Yeah. It looks like he's dead.

1:21:34Bill Simmons:Yeah. Yeah. Half-Fast Center Research. They thought about originally setting the sequel a few years later and having Myers tracking Laurie to her new home in a high-rise apartment building. and I got to say I'm all in. It was 1981 LA. Lori didn't go to college. It's Night Stalker time. She's like an assistant at Paramount Movie Studio or something, living in a high rise. I'm trying to think of...

1:22:02Van Lathan:No, I'm definitely in on it. Wasn't there a serial killer movie of some sort that did something like this a little bit later, where he tracks her down? It was basically Maxine, isn't it? Yeah. Tracks her down where she's living. Yeah, but that works, though. Once again, it puts it in.

1:22:18Bill Simmons:The Midnight had a little of that, the Bronson one. I think that would have been really cool. The plot twist of Laurie being Michael's sister, Carpenter said there wasn't much of a story left and we had to come up with something, was basically his theory. The Morningside Hospital is where they filmed all the hospital stuff. It's on 8711 South Harvard and it's been torn down and is now a senior living facility. So congratulations to all of them. Pamela Schu...

1:22:55Chris Ryan:Can you imagine a bunch of old people sitting around a speaker listening to Rewatchables? What? This is amazing. Congratulations to all of them. The sports guy. Pamela Schu... Shut us out.

1:23:12Chris Ryan:It's called

1:23:13Bill Simmons:Harvard Yard Senior Apartments. Okay. Okay. Yeah, shout out to the staff. Pamela Shoup said the hot tub...

1:23:21Chris Ryan:Don't get your bloodstream drained.

1:23:23Bill Simmons:Pamela Shoup said the hot tub scene gave her an ear infection. See? The water was cold and dirty. They were playing it off like the water was boiling, but it was absolutely freezing. Leo and I were so cold, our teeth were chattering. Why couldn't they heat it up a little bit? It's very strange. Carpenter said he had no influence over the direction. Sawcut said it was, quote, as scary as Quincy we had to do some post-production work and added a couple scenes to try to make a more horror movie

1:23:54Chris Ryan:I would not describe this movie as really scary first Halloween is really scary this movie is more of like a comedy obviously it's a horror hang in retrospect but it's a hang

1:24:03Van Lathan:it scared me when I was a kid but I watch it now and it's just it's like just for fun it's just enjoyable

1:24:10Bill Simmons:TV cut the ending is Jimmy alive he's got a bandaged head wound he's in the ambulance to Lori. They hold hands. Lori says, we made it. I think that's on the 4K. In Carpenter, some of the scenes he reshot was the boombox boy because he thought the biggest flaw in the cut he saw was Howard Myers know to go to the hospital. Right. So he's like, if I put boombox boy in there, then Myers will know to go to the hospital. Dick Warlock, two roles in this. Not only does he play the shape, he plays the policeman who accidentally hits Ben Tramer with the patrol car and crashes it. So he's really on fire.

1:24:50Bill Simmons:Drove the car himself. Wow.

1:24:52Chris Ryan:It's like Gosling and Drive.

1:24:53Bill Simmons:Yeah. And then there's Pamela Susan Shoup gave a long interview to Femme Fatale magazine in 2001 about all the nudity stuff with this. And how Debra Hill saved the day. So there you go. Apex Mountain. Myers? No. No. Jamie Lee? No. Pleasance? No. Really nothing for anybody here unless you want to say horror sequels. It would just be mistaken identity car accidents.

1:25:18Van Lathan:Is it Slasher era? No, no, no, no. Is it the apex mountain of, no, because that would be Rocky II, of sequels that take place directly after the original? I think that's Rocky II. That's Rocky II.

1:25:30Bill Simmons:How about Slasher era though? Because Slasher era is 79 to 83 basically. Is this the best movie from that era?

1:25:39Chris Ryan:is Friday 13th 2 in that era yeah I think that's better than Halloween 2

1:25:45Bill Simmons:I think Silent Rage is the best one of this era yeah nobody will do that with me I'll do it with you but you just no nobody cares

1:25:54Chris Ryan:how about hospital horror movies I watched never mind hospital horror movies yeah Exorcist 3 is my favorite hospital horror movie it is Exorcist 3 another good one fucking terrifying.

1:26:08Van Lathan:Exorcist 3? Yes.

1:26:10Chris Ryan:Yeah.

1:26:10Van Lathan:It is, to me, top five, top three most frightened I've ever been. Terrifying.

1:26:16Bill Simmons:Great jump scare in movie history. Terrifying. It's pretty slow on a rewatch and then it heats up when we get into the hospital. Cruise or Hanks? You said Hanks for the paramedic, right? Yeah. I tried to test drive Cruise in my head for a second. I think I don't see it. Scorsese or Spielberg?

1:26:35Chris Ryan:I don't really know because this is like Rosenthal doing Carpenter. So it's so weird to be like, which of those two?

1:26:41Bill Simmons:We almost like we can't count that one. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? How about the Leo Rossi part?

1:26:48Chris Ryan:Yeah, that would have been pretty creepy. Morning guy in the hot tub.

1:26:52Bill Simmons:As Freddy from Talents of Mr. Ripley. Hey, baby. What's the peaking? The time. How's the peeping? Picking nets. There's some time stuff with this. So Halloween one, what time is it? when all the murders are going down. It's got to be like 11, right?

1:27:08Chris Ryan:It starts in school still in.

1:27:11Bill Simmons:They drive to the houses. Wait, when does Halloween start or when does Halloween start? Halloween 1, when they drive to the houses, it's like 7 o 'clock, right? Yeah. And then we also have the boyfriend comes over. They have sex. There's murders. It's probably like four hours. It feels like it's already like 10.30. I think let's call it like 7 to 10. Okay. So let's say 10. Let's go generous, say 10. Murders happen. Police shows up. Now we're at 10.30, probably 11 range. Why is downtown Haddonfield still so hopping? It's Halloween night. It's Halloween night. We're going to parties. It's 11 o 'clock.

1:27:51Bill Simmons:We already established the Halloween one. Nobody's still awake when she's yelling and running around the street. The kids are out there. Those are all young people walking around downtown Haddonfield.

1:27:59Chris Ryan:They're all going to Halloween parties.

1:28:00Van Lathan:The living facility.

1:28:01Chris Ryan:It's the children. Okay. I'm saying downtown's pretty hot at 11 o 'clock. Karen's shift, I bet, is midnight to 8. Yeah. And Karen's like, I'm going to be late for my shift. So how long are we at the hospital? Basically all night? What are you talking about? Yeah, because in the morning, it's dawn when they leave the hospital.

1:28:16Bill Simmons:Dawn when they leave the hospital. So that's over the course of six hours? Yeah.

1:28:20Chris Ryan:And she actually does say, Karen's like, it takes me five minutes to drive you home, five minutes to drive back to the hospital. So everything in Haddonfield's five minutes away.

1:28:28Van Lathan:Right. Once again, the people you see out there are still the whippersnappers out there who, if you've been around Halloween, they're going to be out all night. Does Myers have to eat or go to the bathroom at any point during this stretch?

1:28:42Bill Simmons:Does Myers go to the bathroom? Obsession is his food. He pisses out fear. Does he just go to the bathroom in his gas station outfit? Or does he go to the bathroom like an animal? You think he's just constantly shitting and pissing himself?

1:28:56Chris Ryan:He could be. I think he's probably pissing the...

1:28:58Van Lathan:Does he eat any food? He's the shape. Yeah, he's like not a human thing. He's not human.

1:29:04Bill Simmons:In Halloween 1, he eats that they find the dead dog and he's like, man, when he did that, and he's like, he got hungry. Loomis says that. It's like insinuating he ate the dog. I thought the implication was like,

1:29:16Van Lathan:he was hungry to kill. Oh. So then, wait a minute. So then if he ate the dog, then at some point he'd have to take a crap. Yeah, but it's still the same way. Or maybe he doesn't eat. Yeah, still the same way. Maybe he doesn't.

1:29:26Chris Ryan:No cops at the hospital guarding Lori. Do you think it would have been funny if Michael had been like, I'm taking the butcher knife and then I'm taking the sandwich?

1:29:33Bill Simmons:I need some energy. I'm hungry. Lifts the mask up. No cops at the hospital guarding Lori. Not anybody. Just going to drop her off. They're all out on the street looking for Michael. Here's a good nitpick. They're checking out the burn body. This is probably within an hour of the accident. there's not still smoke coming off that body and doesn't the body stink? It's like a burning corpse. We see in normal movies they put like the thing underneath the noses, right? They put the smell so bad thing. In Silence of the Lambs they do that. They're just hanging out with this dead burned body. Checking his teeth.

1:30:14Bill Simmons:You guys aren't with me on this? Michael is 21. They're talking about the ages. There are no fillings. It's like this thing. You'd be like, ah, Jesus. the hot nurse in a million years

1:30:26Van Lathan:that's a 17 year old kid I know I'm sorry I apologize the hot nurse

1:30:31Bill Simmons:in a million years is not with that guy

1:30:32Chris Ryan:no no she's with a guy who like who do you think she's with in that town Nurse Karen probably the drunk doctor

1:30:39Bill Simmons:probably took a couple rounds

1:30:40Van Lathan:what about the good looking cop guy oh yeah yeah yeah strong jaw guy maybe there's a guy

1:30:47Chris Ryan:who works at like a used bookstore and she's just like I really like him but he needs to put his career together One thing I will say about these

1:30:58Van Lathan:It's like Noah Baumbach's Halloween It was a slow burn but that was good One thing I will say about these slasher movies is the assholes get late Yeah In all of these slasher movies it's like, just shut up Rick and then two scenes later you fucking Rick

1:31:18Chris Ryan:Yeah Kevin Bacon in Friday the 13th Yeah.

1:31:23Bill Simmons:That guy, the sleazy guy, he basically said to Lance Guest's character, Jimmy, don't get involved with Laura. There's one rule, you can't get involved with the patients. Yes. And then proceeds to go down to the hot tub room and fuck a nurse. That rule's fine. That guy's an idiot. He says nurses, that's one thing. And then the hospital's obviously too dead for the night shift, but Rosenthal said he based it on an experience that he had with his wife when the hospital they were at was so deserted at night, they thought it was creepy, and he just kind of filed that away. That's not what they did.

1:31:58Bill Simmons:The other murder nitpick I had, other than lifting somebody in the back with a scalpel up in the air, which I'm still not buying, wouldn't Myers have burned his hands in the scalding hot hot tub? What's going on here? It's ripping her face off.

1:32:14Van Lathan:Can Myers not get burned?

1:32:16Bill Simmons:Myers was shot six times. I'm just saying, you continue to... Skin came, but his hands are going to be fine after that? But you're really focused on what things smell like and feel like.

1:32:26Chris Ryan:And it's like, we're talking about Michael Myers. He was shot...

1:32:30Van Lathan:How many times did he be shot over the... He was shot like 15 times. 15 or 20 times. And then he was shot in the head. He's a human. In the head, close range. Okay, fine. He can bleed, though. He can bleed. So he can't get burned, but he can bleed. I don't think that... My question is, I don't think that the burning... His skin... that the burning is going to affect him. I don't think Michael Myers is going to go, ew. Like, ow. That would be funny if that was just one line. Why did I have it so hot?

1:32:56Bill Simmons:Yeah, like, ew, like, you know? She shoots, Loomis gives Laurie a Colt Trooper MK3, and Laurie shoots Michael twice in the eyes from close range with it, and apparently in reality, if you shot somebody from that close with that gun, their head would just blow out from the back. Yeah. This was like a BB gun.

1:33:16Chris Ryan:Fucking done.

1:33:17Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:33:18Chris Ryan:It's over. Any other nitpicks? Nothing that we haven't talked about already.

1:33:23Bill Simmons:Sequel, prequel, prestige, TV, all black cast, they're untouchable. They've done them all. Sequel. I mean, yeah, they've literally done everything. What's the all black cast version of? Halloween Resurrection? It's not all black, is it? Well, mostly black.

1:33:35Van Lathan:Yeah, I guess. Well, they haven't done them all. That movie's bad. They haven't done all black, yeah.

1:33:39Bill Simmons:Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Mad Dog Russo, Doris Burke, Buffalo Bill Sam Jackson Nell Byron Mayo Tony Romo Chris Collinsworth Daniel Plainview Longlegs Wilford Brimley and The Firm this movie could have used Sam honestly Sam as either the guy driving the car when Loomis is like we have to turn around he would have been good Sam why are you smiling at me? I'm waiting to hear it let's hear it Sam Sam who was the guy who checked out the fat sheriff guy who checks out the basement that could have been I was thinking Collinsworth for this, though.

1:34:17Chris Ryan:Okay.

1:34:18Bill Simmons:Oh, Mike. I'm so excited Lori and Michael are reunited. This is just like everything. Who could have seen it come with the Davey siblings? You knew they would get back together tonight, Mike. It's just so great. They have such a great thing.

1:34:32Chris Ryan:I'm surprised you left this on the table. I had Byron Mayo. Byron Mayo's bud. He's like, Karen, come on in. The water's warm.

1:34:47Chris Ryan:don't worry it doesn't get scalding in this physical therapy burn off fluids that come out of us

1:34:55Van Lathan:you don't think Sam kind of worse as Loomis too Sam would have been an amazing Loomis

1:35:01Bill Simmons:holy shit that motherfucker ain't human

1:35:06Van Lathan:his eyes motherfucker there's nothing there

1:35:12Bill Simmons:I watched it for 15 fucking years Just one Oscar who gets it The score? I don't know Not a lot of Oscar worthy stuff

1:35:21Van Lathan:Score question mark But like what Tough one

1:35:25Bill Simmons:Alright probably unanswerable questions Did Sheriff Brackett get divorced? I'll start there The wife's blaming him immediately Yeah You fucking knew You were with this guy all day

1:35:36Van Lathan:Didn't you know there was serial killer? You let our daughter babysit You motherfucker You worthless piece of shit. Fuck you. You protect everybody in this town. You can't protect your own fucking family. Get out of here.

1:35:47Bill Simmons:Did you have one?

1:35:48Chris Ryan:The cop who kills the kid. Yeah. Suspension. Without pay. Are they like, we're kind of shorthanded. We're going to need you to just come back to work tomorrow.

1:35:57Bill Simmons:We're going to kind of pretend that didn't happen. I had, did Ben Trammer's parents sue the city of Haddonfield? Is there a march in Haddonfield? Yeah. The other thing is like, for a second, if you're that cop,

1:36:05Chris Ryan:first of all, I don't know, the cop didn't die in the crash. No, he got out of the car. So do you think for one second, he's like, I fucking did it. I killed Michael Myers.

1:36:20Chris Ryan:They're going to name a fucking holiday after me here.

1:36:23Bill Simmons:He took out the starting pitcher on the Hatterfield baseball team. When Lori's parents finally did get a hold of her, how do you think that combo went?

1:36:33Van Lathan:Like you never told me that Michael Myers was my brother type shit. Yeah, that you were my adopted parents.

1:36:37Bill Simmons:And where have you guys been? Yeah. Right. I've been transferred to a second hospital. I've been stabbed. I just watched nine people. All my friends are dead.

1:36:45Van Lathan:And by the way, just to let you know, all of this just happened. And then when I was getting into the ambulance, the guy fucking made me take a step up and my shit is fucked up. I rebroke my ankle. I rebroke my ankle. I'm going to be like Jason Tatum

1:36:57Chris Ryan:when he tries to come back at Christmas.

1:37:01Bill Simmons:He looked me off. Yeah. I didn't like that. It's going to be 0-7 on Saturday night. What would have been the funniest Dana Carvey use? Like, could Dana Carvey have added some comedy?

1:37:15Chris Ryan:Well, we could have had Church Lady doing, like, public access TV and being like, this is like, Michael Myers has come because of Satan.

1:37:23Bill Simmons:Or he just starts doing a couple of imitations. Yeah. Like, because he did a great Johnny Carson. I just feel like they had Dana Carvey right there. They should have. He's on SNL five years later. Could have had him got some comedy. What piece of memorabilia would you have?

1:37:38Chris Ryan:Can I ask an unanswerable question? Yeah. Since when do all the hot teens work at a hospital? They're not teens. They're like in their late 20s, right? Early 20s? None of those were high schoolers? I don't think so. Oh, they were all older. Yeah, they're like young adults. Yeah, they were hanging out.

1:37:51Van Lathan:You know what just happened to you? What happened to you is the thing that happens, looking back at these movies now, where you can't really fucking tell how old somebody is. Yeah, because everybody back then just seemed older. Everybody back then looks 27. Yeah, because there's not much space between. Regardless, though, it just seemed like it was like a lot of cool, young, hip, hot people working at a hospital.

1:38:09Chris Ryan:Sure. In this little town. Like, that was the cool job to have. It was like spooky breakfast club up in there. All of my unanswerable questions are Bill Simmons' theory of how would Michael know how to drive? It's just like, how would he know what Samhain is? How would he know how needles work? How would he know?

1:38:25Bill Simmons:It's the evil thing in his brain that just he hears voices that guide him. Piece of memorabilia, would you want or not want from this movie? The mask would clearly be number one. I think that's like, I don't know how much the mask from these first two movies would actually be worth if they had it. But I think it's like probably like five or six million dollars when you see like the Hollywood props.

1:38:44Chris Ryan:Like this nicotine stained mask.

1:38:46Bill Simmons:The original mask from the first two movies. Yeah, I think it would be one of the biggest collectors.

1:38:51Chris Ryan:That's been baptized in Deborah Hill's Marlboro Lights.

1:38:52Bill Simmons:Yeah, I think it would be one of the biggest movie collector items you can have. The fucking volleyball from Castaway went for like$700 ,000. If you had it, would you have it out for people to try on? No, that's in a safe. Yeah, you can't. It's too expensive. It's one of the great things you could own, I think. like look at the fucking it's the mask one of the great things

1:39:17Chris Ryan:you could buy a Rothko but you're like nope it's one of the great things I'm saying from a movie you don't think it would be

1:39:27Van Lathan:like a third round pick in a draft six million dollars is a little OD I'm trying to look this up I don't know if it would be six million dollars but you know that world better than I did.

1:39:40Bill Simmons:I just, this whole Hollywood prop world exploded. Yeah. When the Shawshank Bible went for like$600 ,000, that made me think the mask is probably worth at least five times that, right? At least two mil.

1:39:51Chris Ryan:Yeah.

1:39:52Bill Simmons:This started, it's the mask that started 50 years of horror movies, basically.

1:39:56Van Lathan:We should have, yeah. I get it. It's cool. I bet that we would look it up. Okay. It says right here, michaelmyers.net. He has it on eBay for sale with the asking price. This is from 2012. of a cool$1 million. Oh. The actual mask?

1:40:12Bill Simmons:I thought the actual mask

1:40:13Van Lathan:disappeared. This is on michael-myers.net so I don't know what kind of Don't get a virus. Yeah. I'm looking at it now.

1:40:21Bill Simmons:Coach Finstock Award best life lesson. Just find your kids when there's a homicidal maniac on the loose in your neighborhood. Check in. Any kind of a parent just find out where they are and go get them. Have a phone chain. Yeah. Best double feature choice Halloween won.

1:40:36Chris Ryan:Mm-hmm.

1:40:37Bill Simmons:Who won the movie?

1:40:40Van Lathan:you gotta go with Big Mikey Mikey Mike I think Myers

1:40:43Chris Ryan:it's crazy but I it's pleasant for me oh okay for as ridiculous as he is he is like the kind of like the character who goes on an arc and is in the most scenes and is kind of dominating the movie I love how committed he is to the bit

1:41:00Bill Simmons:yeah could be like in that car ride assuming that they never turn around they're just driving back

1:41:05Chris Ryan:it's crazy that he made like five of these six or six five of them coming back has a stroke at the end is back blows up comes back he kind of is Michael Myers

1:41:15Bill Simmons:well they say he survived the fire and he has a little bit of scar tissue in 4 we talked about that with Halloween 4 tough to imagine anyone survived the fire I like that Laurie also knows what's going on when they're turning in the gas she starts doing it too yeah I would have been like what the fuck are you doing yeah why are you doing the gas anyway Craig what do you got

1:41:35Chris Ryan:these are definitely my types of horror films I don't love really, really scary movies, but this is that perfect sweet spot. I like these because they just feel like the holidays. They feel like the fall. I think the town is, like, charming and warm. You just kind of want to be there. It's great. I just like the way it looks and feels. It's 90 minutes. The score is fantastic. The unintentional comedy, it's great. I was thinking, you know, since the Halloween movies have been going on for so long, are there a lot of other horror films set around Halloween? Or does this franchise kind of have Halloween?

1:42:07Chris Ryan:but

1:42:08Bill Simmons:nobody's fuck with it I wish there were more movies it's like Saturday Night Live nobody will do another nighttime sketch show on the weekend that's so weird how many Christmas movies are there like I wish there were more movies set on Halloween

1:42:17Van Lathan:they do movies set around Halloween time but not really like horror movies

1:42:22Chris Ryan:the VHS anthology that just came out because VHS is like a short films one anthology every year that just is a Halloween one this year it's set on Halloween I'm telling you

1:42:32Van Lathan:Halloween became different it became like it started to become like a fun holiday. They had to reclaim it because you got to sell that candy and make people feel safe about it. Now it's an adult thing and whatever. But the movies that they would make about Halloween would be like Disney Channel movies. Yeah. Spook Town or Halloween Town or whatever the fuck they got going on.

1:42:50Bill Simmons:Well, the difference with Halloween in LA versus other cities is it's way more celebrated out here by adults. Like with the decoration of the houses. Yeah. I just don't... It was one of the things that struck me when I moved out here. Like how much time and care and thought people put into... celebrating Halloween with decorations.

1:43:08Van Lathan:I want to ask you guys about that because being from the Bible Belt, there was a celebration. We celebrated Halloween, but you were never going to see... You can go to New Orleans maybe, but you were never going to see the type of Halloween celebration in Baton Rouge that you would see here, ever. It's just not going to happen.

1:43:24Chris Ryan:Was Halloween a big deal in college when you guys were in college? No, see, it switched for me where when I was a little kid, everybody was just going as Luke Skywalker or Batman or whatever. And then... There was a period of time, basically, when I feel like haunted house experiences really started popping off again. Yeah. And it would be like, oh, we can go to this thing. And it's barely kind of overseen by the law. It might get kind of weird in there and stuff. And that's kind of when I got keyed back into it. It was when they have out here the Haunted Hayride and stuff like that. That is a good point.

1:43:58Chris Ryan:Halloween Horror Nights.

1:44:00Bill Simmons:It was a big thing in Massachusetts because of Salem. Sure. Salem was always like, you would take the ride out. It was super creepy there, the witches.

1:44:08Van Lathan:That is actually true. In Baton Rouge, they did have like, this just ridiculously scary, scary haunted house. It's called like the 13th Gate or something like that. Yeah. Scared the shit out of you. And then there was also a cornfield maze, like a legitimate cornfield maze that was off there. I think off Nicholson somewhere. But there was like a terribly scary haunted house. like the carn evil 13th gate type of thing. They did have that.

1:44:36Chris Ryan:Did I ever tell you the best haunted house I ever went to was in like Hudson Valley, New York. And you're up there. It's night. You go through a regular haunted house and you're kind of like, this is cool. Like I had no idea this was coming. So you go through this haunted house. You're like, that was pretty good. You know, we're out here in the country. This was pretty fun. You get to the end of the haunted house and an attendant there is like, get on the bus. Get on the bus. And so you like, like your whole crew that you've been with gets on like a school bus. And over the school bus radio as this guy is driving you out into like cornfields, the radio is talking about how there's been a chemical leak and there's been a zombie outbreak.

1:45:12Chris Ryan:And he drives you out to like the far side of a cornfield and you have to get through the cornfield while being chased by zombies. No way.

1:45:18Van Lathan:Panic attack. Really awesome. Jesus. I'm going to run for a little bit. I'm going to run for a little bit. Then I'm going to sit down in the middle of the cornfield. I'm going to be like, I'm out. There's no more fun. Tap it out. You say stop fucking bothering me. Did they have a bunch of actors playing the zombies chasing you? Wow. Fans like pineapple. And that's what happens. You get to a point to where I would get so overwhelmed by fear. I'll be like, guys, stop. It was really the surprise though. It was like being put on the button. That's pretty good. Because that is awesome because you're on there and you're like, is this fucking happening?

1:45:48Van Lathan:Like what the fuck is going on?

1:45:49Bill Simmons:Where are you guys at with escape rooms? Have you ever done one? Do you like them? Do you enjoy it? Ben Simmons has been to 30 of them.

1:45:55Van Lathan:Really?

1:45:56Bill Simmons:It's a big LA thing. Yeah, him and his friends go. I went to a lot when I first moved to LA when I was in my early mid-20s, we went to a lot of escape rooms. It's a huge thing right now. Okay. Yeah. That's it for Halloween too. Will we ever do another Halloween? H2O, maybe?

1:46:09Chris Ryan:I would do H2O, yeah. You just were, you're just out on Season of the Witch. So yeah, H2O is probably most likely.

1:46:16Van Lathan:H2O, that was the Halloween movie that I saw as like a teenager in the movie theater with the peeps. Yeah, man.

1:46:24Bill Simmons:That was when Hartman was running. That was a high school teen movie era. All right. Craig Roelbeck, thank you. Gahal. Ronak, thank you. We'll be back next week with Rewatchables with a famous celebrity guest. Can't wait.