'Jaws 2’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

9:59Bill Simmons:Damien Omen 2. Bob Omen the first. Jaws 2, both June 1978. So why is this important? Well, we're starting a sequel boom. They didn't really do sequels. They did Bond sequels. They did those weird airport movies that they put the year of the whatever after. Clint Eastwood's westerns were sort of sequels. Go back to the 20s, 30s, 40s. They loved doing sequels. Then it kind of died off. 1977. I see you just threw a little chum in the water for Russillo talking 40s. Right. Well, now we know. Get Russillo on a thin man, Todd.

10:40Sean Fennessey:He said he wanted to be the three of us, but I need you and Ryan looking each other in the eye doing Costa Blanca for two hours. I need it. I need it more than I need anything in the world. All right, we'll do it this summer. Seriously, I would retire from the rewatch If you guys did that, it would be like we've completed the mission.

10:56Bill Simmons:77 has Exorcist 2, Bad News Bears, and Breaking Training. A phenomenal movie. And Airport 77. 78 has Jaws 2, Omen 2, Bad News Bears 3, Go to Japan. We don't acknowledge that movie.

11:07Sean Fennessey:Also Revenge of the Pink Panther. One of the biggest movies of the year.

11:11Bill Simmons:And they had sequels. Yeah, they had sequels. 79 has Rocky 2, which becomes as big of a phenomenon as Jaws 2. and we also get Airport 79 Butch and Sundance prequel and more American Graffiti and then 80 has Empire Strikes Back Smokey and the Bandit 2 so these are top 10 movies that are sequels and then you can just see how it changes where Superman 2, Halloween 2, Friday 13 2, in 1982 here are all the sequels Rocky 3, Star Trek 2 Friday 13 3, Airplane 2 Halloween 3, Death Wish 2, Grease 2 Amityville 2 and Penitentiary 2 if you just go by the year there's just normal movie titles like you look at like 1975 and it's just movie titles and then you get to like the 80s it's twos you see twos, sequels, whatever and it just changes do you find it comforting or alarming that for your entire life like that's been the case like because in some ways it should give us a little bit of peace when it's like oh there's nothing original anymore

12:09Sean Fennessey:I don't think there's anything that is inherently bad about a sequel I think you know The Empire Strikes Back is remarkable like it's one of the best movies ever Godfather 2 is one of the best movies ever I do think that there's a consistency in the ones that you talked about from 77 through 80 where the number twos are basically the same as the first film but worse and money grabs and they're only made for money but like the the structure of the movie is usually the same the director is usually a little less good than the director of the original there's usually at least one star missing somebody doesn't show up the lead is usually a little bit more like begrudging about having to do the movie.

12:49Sean Fennessey:They don't feel as happy about it. Yeah. So it's just not as special. There's a lot more hand-wringing in the stories about the making of these movies. There's a lot more hand-wringing about we were waiting for a script that honored the first one or that could live up to the first one. We don't have that problem anymore. We're like, we just need to get these going.

13:05Bill Simmons:Halfway through the movie, they're like, yeah, just have them shoot the blue fish and let's get to the next scene. Ana de Armas is the ballerina and she is John Wick. Let's not worry about this too much. but it was fascinating to see that the Jaws producers basically did this because they were like this is going to happen anyway so better to be involved and try and make it on the level of the first one somebody's doing a shark movie if we don't that's what David Brown said, do you believe that?

13:33Sean Fennessey:or do you believe that that was a way to match I believe Universal would make another Jaws movie, don't you? I mean it's like a groundbreaking box office success in that way

13:40Bill Simmons:yeah it's possible we've talked about this a bunch of times this year, especially the Star Wars pod, I just think this is right around when movies change. And they look at a movie like Jaws or Star Wars and they're just like, let's run that back, let's do that again. I saw Jaws 2 in the theater. It was another one at the Cleveland Circle Theater. My dad took me. I was the exact same age, I think, as little Sean. And super scared the last hour of the movie. Like, really genuinely scared. I vividly remember the helicopter thing being like that was like one of the craziest things i've seen in a movie theater it's still

14:17Sean Fennessey:really effective it's really great there's still a few things in this that are really good and then

14:21Bill Simmons:fucking marge just getting swallowed up by by jaws jr best kill in the movie well i have i have a i may have a contender for that yeah also a holy shit i've never seen that shot from behind yeah and it's a great invention because you don't have to show her getting quinted you know she just disappears. Yeah, well, it seemed like they were really worried about the R. They had a couple crunching down things that they ended up cutting out. This was a moment when this came out, and this movie did really, really well. I think it's one of the reasons we started getting more sequels. This movie fucking killed it at the box office.

14:57Bill Simmons:It didn't matter if it wasn't as good.

14:58Sean Fennessey:It kind of got killed critically, right? It was not well-reviewed at all. It didn't matter at all. But also then became an absolute staple of early HBO. I remember this being on a ton when I was a kid. All the Jaws sequels were, but it's been, in a weird way, I wonder sometimes if I've seen Jaws 2 more than Jaws, just cumulatively. Because every time I watch Jaws, I make a big thing out of it. And with this, it's like, oh yeah, the water skiing. I'll sit down for this.

15:29Bill Simmons:Yeah, from we always talk about why we created the pod. This is a classic, oh, they're going sailing? Mm-hmm. Eddie's about to get it Eddie's about to die I'm gonna stick around for another 40 here poor Eddie all you wanna do is play the guitar on the beach and get laid come on Tina just don't make it so tough on a guy

15:50Sean Fennessey:I get the impression that he kinda put a lot of numbers up with Tina in the first place like he actually maybe he lived a good life oh I feel like Tina was undiagnosed ADHD and kept being like is that a parasailer if I gotta get out of here you know

16:03Bill Simmons:what was she saying about she needed a blanket because her mom noticed the black and blue bruises. Oh, yeah, because they kept... They were knocking it out on the boat. No, I get it. Also, American cars in the 70s, a lot of sharp edges, you know? What? Her parents inspect her when she got home? Yeah. That was so weird.

16:18Sean Fennessey:Time for your ass inspection, Tina. Yeah. You've been out with Eddie all night. What's that bruise? Tina got a bruise.

16:23Bill Simmons:Oh, I was balling Eddie in the back of the station wagon. Also, fucking on a boat and that boat that size, not easy. Yeah. Yeah. Wish we had gotten to see it. Eddie's got to be a very tender lover. Well, he was a guitar player. what do you think their favorite position was I'd probably be very careful yeah Flamenco careful careful lover dead Eddie well by the time we got to 1983 here were the sequels Return of the Jedi Superman 3 awful Jaws 3 horrible Psycho 2 horrific Porphy's 2 A Disgrace The Sting 2 never happened and Smokey and the Bandit 3 we literally went 0 for 7 do you like Smokey 3 you didn't put a little review on the end of it I'm not positive if Burt Reynolds is in it.

17:05Sean Fennessey:I kind of like Psycho 2. I'm just going to put that out there. Really? Yeah, and I think there is a cult to that movie now. What? Yeah, it's like a late stage Anthony Perkins appreciation. Interesting. I forgot the director's name. Australian guy who made Patrick and Road Games couple like gnarly. I think it's like some good kills in it. I like Psycho 2.

17:25Bill Simmons:Porky's 2 saw that in the theater. Has some of the worst sports scene footage in the history of the film. What did they play? I don't even know if I've seen it. basketball and meet the he's like a power forward i'll bet remember me meets 35 in real life at this point playing power forward in the high school team and does not know how to play basketball and if there's video of it we could easily cut this into a social clip like he is i had never probably touched any sort of sports object before this movie and he's just running around even the fat kid in Teen Wolf was better. Chubby. Chubby at least looked like he had a little bit of an Oliver Miller type of game.

18:05There was a Teen Wolf too, wasn't there?

18:07Bill Simmons:Oh, there was. Yeah. T-O-O. Oh, right. So I wanted to ask. Before he became Jason Batman. That's right. Or whatever that ad is. In the Ryan household, I will say, weirdly, maybe uniquely, Jaws of the Revenge is our favorite sequel. Is that the fourth one? Sequel. Yeah. That's Michael Keane. Yes, and Mario Van Peebles. Yes, it is. That's the Jamaican one. I don't know if I played that one more than once. What happens? Sean gets, he's like a harbor master, and he gets killed by a shark outside of Amity.

18:40Sean Fennessey:It is the revenge. Sean Brody? It is the revenge on Martin Brody. Yes. Brody's passed away from a heart attack. Surprise, surprise. Four packs of day cigarettes. Finally got him out. And then Sean is like, you know, following in his father's footsteps, gets his arm bitten off and dragged out to the water. Ellen freaks out. Michael comes from his job in the Bahamas and is like, Ellen, you got to come down to the Bahamas with me. You got to soothe your soul. She meets, I can't remember what Michael Caine's character's name. It's like Wogey or something like that. Hoagie Newcomb. Hoagie Newcomb, played by Michael Caine.

19:15And then I think Mario Van Peebles is like a dive master there. And then... Say no more. I'll dial it up on Tubi tonight. They do battle with the shark. It's pretty awesome. three is the water park yes that was 3D that was during

19:27Bill Simmons:the weird 3D yeah it's bad really bad yeah all those 3D movies they didn't really know that was a sterling

19:33Sean Fennessey:defense of Jaws the Revenge but it's very bad as I recall

19:36Bill Simmons:I've seen all I've only seen those one each well Lorraine Gary is in all four yes she is which is hilarious because she was married to the head of Universal yes and if you look at our IMDb I think we did this when we did Jaws but basically a TV actress in a couple things and then ends up in Spielberg's Jaws as like the wife of the hero. That being said, I kind of like her.

20:00Sean Fennessey:She's fine. I said this on the Jaws pod. I think she's really good in Jaws, the first Jaws. I'm a little confused about her career path in Jaws 2. And then by Jaws 4, she's like one of the heroes. A traumatized woman. Yeah, she is the hero of Jaws 4. Like a 65-year-old hero. Yeah. So that's a little questionable.

20:13Bill Simmons:So you don't think the Lakers should have drafted her in the second round? Can she finish Lobs? We don't know. Um, Yeah, so she's the only thread for the four. Well, they decided to do the sequel late in 75. Spielberg said no. Thanks anyway. There was some writer they brought in and wanted to do a prequel about Quint's story about the U.S. Indianapolis. No, this is... You gotta slow down here. Yeah. I wanted to just clear the floor for C.O.R. The original sort of creative team of Jaws when they were like, we gotta do a sequel. And I think even there's some reporting that Spielberg was like, that's actually a cool idea or maybe that was his idea, that Carl Gottlieb was writing it or something was the Quint prequel.

20:56The USS Indianapolis prequel that he tells the story of in Jaws.

20:59Bill Simmons:I'm in. And I'm fucking in. And I think we may have talked about this on the Jaws pod, but like if Jaws had just been an anthology series about shark attacks in different parts of the world or in some connective tissue with the characters, it would have been like the greatest franchise ever. And I bet Spielberg would have been interested enough to come back if it wasn't like Martin Brody does Battle of the Shark again. Well, they've ripped us. I mean, Open Water. Remember that one? Yeah, of course. The Blake Lively movie. Shallows. They just, they make Deep Blue Sea. Like, they just keep making shark.

21:33Bill Simmons:They've been making them for 50 years.

21:35Sean Fennessey:But there was also a wave in the immediate aftermath of this movie of sea creature-related movies. Like, you also had Orca immediately after this. You had Crocodile. You had Alligator. You had... Piranha. Or Eatin' Alive is the crocodile movie. And then you had Alligator. you had Piranha the Joe Dante movie like they there was a wave of literally a wave of movies like this I don't mind the Piranha movie Piranha's pretty cool yeah tough way to go is it true that is it disinfo about Piranhas are they actually not that dangerous Shark or Piranha sheesh I think if there's

22:06Bill Simmons:a lot of Piranha you just your body disappears you just get shredded yeah it's like a water cremation I think I'll go I feel like you got a better chance against a shark weirdly I mean I feel like I think I've watched more shark movies than Piranha movies, so I have some ideas about how to combat shark attacks.

22:23Sean Fennessey:What movie did I just watch where somebody punches a shark and it works? This just happened in a movie. Dangerous Animals. That's what it was. Yeah. Yes. You know what Dangerous Animals is out right now? Jai Courtney. Yeah. He plays a crazed Australian boat captain who takes people out to see the sharks. She takes women out. Abducts them and makes them shark bait for his amusement. And he videotapes them while they're hanging off the side of the boat. This is a movie that's in the theater? It's out right now. on like yeah it's gonna be on shutter this summer yeah oh it's pretty dark even as shark movies go it's like holy shit like this guy's just torturing women for two hours but yeah it's like saw but just for sharks yeah it's saw but sharks well but that's a great description saw but that's the that

23:03Bill Simmons:was what you laid out that model that's what jaws could have been there was just like a new jaws every year yeah they didn't know how to franchise stuff back then they had to actually like really

23:12Sean Fennessey:put thought and money into it i think that that would have been cool but like let's not forget that the first movie is directed by Steven Spielberg. Like, that's the reason Jaws is amazing. And you really feel at watching Jaws 2, which is a very fun summer blockbuster movie, but it is no Jaws. It's not even close to the propulsive feeling that you get watching Jaws. Like, when you're watching Jaws, you're like this, leaning closer and closer to see what happens. In this movie, I'm just like, I'm waiting for the kill. That's the thing. And I don't even really think about the kills as much when I think of Jaws.

23:38Sean Fennessey:In this movie, it's all kills.

23:41Bill Simmons:It's a machine. Very similar to Halloween 2, a movie that I support. Yeah. Same thing. It's Myers just like, let's get his stats up. His PR in Halloween 2 is just way better. He only has like four kills in Halloween 1. He's Jordan Clarkson. Halloween 2, he's taken down like an entire hospital. Anyway, they found a director. They start doing a script that's in the future. John D. Hancock.

24:07Sean Fennessey:Interesting director. Theater director, TV director, right? They bang the drum slowly. Yes. Before that, he did a really good horror movie called Let's Scare Jessica to Death, which features great stuff on the water. Are you on that 4K buffet or no? I'm not on that one. But there's a really good addition to that one. You're saving it all for the dangerous animals 4K. Vinegar Syndrome put out a really good version of that. I, I, this is a little bit of a what if for me. Yeah. Is if, if they hadn't fired John D. Hancock off the movie. Because he's a better director than Jeno Schwark. The, the word.

24:40Who is a TV director.

24:41Sean Fennessey:Yes. And the reporting or the, the stuff about the, making the movie is that his version of Jaws 2 was like a more of like a darker drama. So I wonder if that's more of the first half of the film.

24:54Bill Simmons:There was that plus didn't the he was kind of trying to cut back the wife's parts and the universal guy. That was the story he told.

25:03Sean Fennessey:And he blamed this on the shark not working which is obviously the same line that Spielberg had. He was like he basically got fired because he couldn't get the action sequences to play. They weren't cutting together. And David Brown was like this guy is we made the wrong choice

25:16Bill Simmons:production stops stops long enough that Spielberg thinks about it they also thought about and he writes the screenplay for the Quint speech yeah just for fun because he was a fucking freak and then he's like I'm gonna write this whole movie script maybe gonna be it was gonna maybe be directed by Joe Alves who did 3D right and Verna Fields who edited one and became like an executive at Universal but the DJ wouldn't let him do it yeah you can't replace I didn't know about that there was some rule that from Outlaw of Josie Wales they fired the director and then had the crew direct the rest of the movie it's kind of like what happened on Tombstone right and the DGA was like we're not doing that anymore but then we've done 10 rewatchables where that's happened yeah the DGA had the second apron yeah

26:01Bill Simmons:it's a trade Porzingis

26:03Sean Fennessey:I don't know if that's a tall tale from Joe Alves or not I like it though he says that but it's a good story

26:07Bill Simmons:so they end up with Jenna Swark I was I had so many different variations on how you were going to pronounce this that I didn't even bother to look up the real one because I was so excited. It's one of the weirdest names I've seen in the IMDb. His last name is spelled S-C-W-A-R-C. I don't... It's called Gene. Keep it moving. But it's borderline Shark. It's pretty close. Yeah, it does look like Shark.

26:30Sean Fennessey:I just love to get three consonants in a row in the last name, you know? Just right to start. Schwark. We got it here. I got three consonants in a row in my last name. You do? Oh, yeah. H-O-R-L-B.

26:43Bill Simmons:Oh, yeah. Congrats. Thanks. Jeanneau Swark.

26:50Sean Fennessey:Jeanneau.

26:51Bill Simmons:Jeanneau. Yeah. Ten years later, he's doing episode eight of Hill Street Blues season four.

26:59Sean Fennessey:Not bad. Yeah. Yeah, he seems like a very affable man in the interview. You know, didn't like him, Roy Scheider. And he did not. Clashed on the set. Didn't like him at all.

27:08Bill Simmons:We did have one star comeback. The goat, John Williams. Yes. They're like, hey, John, can you kick in a little teenage kids sailing, having fun, like some fun, happy. Come on, man. We might have an orgy at the lighthouse music. J-Dubs is like, I got that. J-Dubs has got one hand on the Close Encounters theme and another one just remixing jobs. Just rocking to it.

27:34Sean Fennessey:That's the thing is like in 1978, he also scored The Fury, the Brian De Palma movie, and Superman the movie, which is one of the most iconic themes in movie history. And he was like, yeah, I got time for Jaws 2. Yeah. And he's working on Empire. Yeah. He's got 1941 coming in 79 and Empire coming in 80. He cooked.

27:55Bill Simmons:Cooked for 20 years. Only Harold Faltermeyer is the only one who can match him. They'll be serious. When Beverly Hills Cop and Fletch. And Top Gun. And Beverly Hills Cop 2. That little run Harold had. No, John Williams. No. He's not Zimmer. But we still, same thing. How did he do it? Who's the guy in Miami Vice? Jan Hammer? Yeah. That was another one. It was like, Jan's just cranking it for two years. Cranking music. Cranking what?

28:21Sean Fennessey:Cranking music. The synthesizer. Yeah.

28:24Bill Simmons:Anyway, the goat John Williams is back. $20 million budget made$208 million. Seventh biggest movie of 1978. The biggest non-bond sequel ever. Roger Ebert refused to review it. Why? just didn't write a review he was a movie critic did he refuse or did he just not no review did the TV show and he they skipped over and he said it was pure trash I was just gonna say I think he used the word trash he said it was pure trash not a fan it's quite a stand I mean it's not pure trash but as we know Raj was the sequel police

29:01Sean Fennessey:Raj also doesn't like horror movies he's the Martin Brody of sequels he thinks there's something degrading about the 80s slasher. Yeah. He never supported them and this is an 80s slasher. He could have reviewed it. I mean, it was, he should have reviewed all of the top 10 movies of the year. I wonder if it was like 15 % cornier. You know, if Eddie had sealed the deal, if Raj would have been like, if Jackie would have whipped him out. Yeah. Then he would have, he would have been all about it. Well, we know, we know Raj, he loves the female form. I mean, he always writes, he's always writing about breasts.

29:33Sean Fennessey:Yeah. Yeah. The R-rated version of this,

29:35Bill Simmons:Raj would be like, yeah, I'll review it.

29:39Sean Fennessey:You make it seem like he had complete veto power.

29:42Bill Simmons:At the trib. He was just like, the fuck out, yeah. Can you imagine him storming out of a screen like, no review! You'll get nothing! It's like those soup Nazis. You should try that for big fake. Just 45 minutes of silence after Jurassic World. We're seeing Jurassic World this week.

30:02Sean Fennessey:We'll see if I want to do an episode about it.

30:04Bill Simmons:Just 45 seconds of dead air. You're just like playing brick blast on your iPad. We're going to take a break and do the categories. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Life is full of decisions, big and small, and sometimes you make one. You can really stand behind. I did this a few times in my life, especially in the mid-2010s after I left Grantland and ESPN. And I was like, you know what? I still think there's an idea for a company that could really work. And then the ringer. And now we're 10 years later, we're still here. State Farm gets it. Making confident choices can make all the difference.

30:42Bill Simmons:That's why with the State Farm personal price plan, you can choose the right amount of coverage to help create an affordable price. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer availability amount of discounts and savings. and eligibility vary by state. Most rewatchable scene. All the kids getting together and getting ready to go sailing with the happy John Williams music. I think the title of that song is the kids are sailing, they're happy.

31:20Bill Simmons:Cousin Jackie arrives. The water skier gets eaten. Yeah, that's where it really goes up. When you see somebody water skiing and you hear the...

31:29Sean Fennessey:Not good. Not good. really so this was the first scene that jenna spark shot and he did it because they needed to rewrite the whole movie yeah and he was like just give me five days to shoot a really cool scene and this works you can also see that that came through in the edit where you're like man this chick is water skiing for a really long time a lot of time spent i do need to explore with you um the woman pouring gasoline all over herself before the before lighting a flare and exploding the entire I'm actually picking this. It's one of my favorite things. That clip is just playing in Joe Dumars' office.

32:08No!

32:13No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No!

32:31Sean Fennessey:What is she?

32:32Bill Simmons:That's the idea for any time an NBA team folks

32:35Sean Fennessey:She gets gasoline

32:41It's so hard to do Even with a shark attacking you It's like how did you do that? What's the math on that? Like what was she going for?

32:50Sean Fennessey:Why does she have a giant thing of gasoline in her butt? What are you trying to do? like pour gasoline on the shark fucking shark in the water light matches throw the matches at him it's actually quick thinking she's like oh what I'll do is just like douse this thing in gasoline and shoot a flare at it it's just like hey leave it to the professionals what's she thinking water ski driver there's like a great overhead shot of her pouring gasoline on herself but for a second I was kind of like is she like I'd rather immolate myself than get eaten by a shark. Even the shark was like, what the fuck are you doing?

33:28Sean Fennessey:Let's just finish eating it. Let's just get this over with. It's like my favorite thing in the movie. I love that so much. We gotta make that a gift.

33:37Bill Simmons:Stew bars. We can get to 13, but you have to trade the thing. He takes up the phone to Atlanta. He's just like, ah!

33:49Bill Simmons:Oh my God. Oh, man. All right. More rewatchable scenes. Brody in the shark tower freaking out and shooting at the bluefish.

34:00Sean Fennessey:Also kind of Dumars-esque.

34:03Bill Simmons:There's a kid like kind of right there. I mean, it's close. He's pointing at the kid. This is the funny thing with like the town council meeting is the town council definitely has a point. Like Brody seems insane. Yeah. Now that's you lose your job with the shooting at the bluefish. I don't know if there's anything coming back from that. And you lose your job when you trade your unprotected 2026 pick for Dare Queen.

34:24Sean Fennessey:Do you think in that scene that Brody has PTSD from the original Jaws and that's what's driving him to do it? Yeah, because he says, I won't go through that hell again. Like, you're going to have to get somebody else to fight this shark.

34:34Bill Simmons:Great shot Gordo, Brody coming down the stairs.

34:37Sean Fennessey:Yeah. That's a good one.

34:38Bill Simmons:I like the shark tower in general. I was thinking about getting one from my backyard. Okay. That seems normal. Just cool. Just climb up there. Where's dad?

34:47Sean Fennessey:what about how angry the mayor is when he's up there he's like what's he doing up there relax he's a cop

34:54Bill Simmons:it's his job Brody's showing them the shark picture this was Roy's Oscar clip I think Roy talked himself into the movie at that point the check had cleared he found out what points meant and he was like I know what a shark looks like because I've seen one up close you better do something about this one because I don't intend to go through that hell again. It's good. And they're like, nah, it doesn't look like a shark. They're like, fuck off, right? They're really rude to him. Looks like an eye. All right. This is when the movie takes off. The last 50 minutes, Eddie gets eaten. This is just a tremendous, tremendous horse.

35:32He's been in the drag head first into the boat and then sucked down. Yes. The whole, Eddie, swim! Eddie, hurry, faster, come on, swim! Hurry! hurry, hurry.

35:51Bill Simmons:And Eddie, and Eddie's like, the actor they hired, I had this in the research, like didn't know how to swim. They didn't realize it. So they had to like, quickly teach him like how to swim. So you can kind of see it. He's in the water. He looks really uncomfortable when he first goes over. Cause he can't fucking swim. Yeah.

36:06Sean Fennessey:Yeah. This is a, probably would have checked that

36:09Bill Simmons:on the Eddie character. Hey, any swimming in your history?

36:12Sean Fennessey:This is a, his name is Gary Dubin. imagine if you were just a man named Gary Dubin and this is how your IMDB or your Wikipedia started he was an American actor best known for his portrayal of Punky Lazar a friend of Danny Partridge on The Partridge Family he also voiced Tulu in The Aristocats in 1970 and played the part of ill-fated teenager Eddie Marchand who was eaten by the shark in Jaws 2 that's his legacy that's his IMDB he was on Green Acres, Laying to the Giants Eddie! it's tough the scene the moment when he gets up to the boat and puts his hand on the boat and it pulled the wood breaks and pulls away incredible stuff really great

36:53Bill Simmons:the first big sailboat attack where Mike almost dies yeah he gets knocked out yeah when he bangs his head great and the boat's split and it's just I love all that helicopter guy dies we talked about him awesome Sean almost gets eaten not you Sean Sean and the little boy Sean and Marge dies yeah Marge does die It's tough. Probably the most altruistic person in the movie. Yeah. Didn't say anybody else jumping in for Sean.

37:19Sean Fennessey:No, she's an idiot. What is she thinking? That's an insane call. You would just watch Sean get eaten. I probably wouldn't jump in if I saw the shark coming. You would jump in? I think if we're doing Blame Pie, it's all Brody for being like, take Mike back to the hospital, but not Sean. No, it's Ellen Brody that morning. Oh, Ellen. When Alan Brody is like, where's Sean? He's probably out playing somewhere. I'm like, this is a 10-year-old child. We've got...

37:48Bill Simmons:No, this was the late 70s. My mom didn't know where I was for six hours a day. You live in Jaws Town.

37:53Sean Fennessey:You don't live anywhere. There's already been a shark sighting. This is crazy. Can't judge. This is why I'm up there. So many kids got up.

38:01Bill Simmons:This is why it was the heyday for serial killers and terrible people. These kids would just be like, yeah, I'll be back in six hours.

38:08Sean Fennessey:Guys, there's a shark sighting in Amity. and Ellen Brody is like no big deal Michael sneaks him out but she doesn't know where her child is he could be down getting ice cream or something like that well she's gonna have to explain to Marge's parents why she's fucking dead

38:27Bill Simmons:blame pie that I had this in nitpicks they leave to take unconscious Mike Brody back to a hospital and nobody says hey if you're gonna go back Four-year-olds. Why don't you take the eight-year-old kid who's completely terrified. Eight-year-olds, sorry. Yeah, however old he is.

38:44Sean Fennessey:I think he's 10, but yeah, good note. He's a pretty small 10-year-old. I think that they explained that he's 10 in the movie. Do they not? Oh, I thought you were gonna be like, they explained that he has a pituitary problem.

38:54Bill Simmons:No, he was around my age when I saw the movie. Okay. So he's somewhere between eight and 10. But anyway, they just left him behind. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Meanwhile, that was his brother. He had no other siblings in the water with him. Yeah. Poor Marge. Very strange. Great kill. All-time scene. and then the electric cable ending not sure about the science for that one well here's the thing we're questioning science it's okay I'm just saying we know it now because we know it's happening in the theater seeing this for the first time it was an awesome idea open wide see ya

39:38Bill Simmons:this cable comes up and he realizes what it is and he starts hitting it and you're like what the fuck is he doing why is he doing it but you realize as the shark's coming oh i see what he's going to try to do just a really inspired idea it's it's a culmination of the film or a climax of the movie that's lightly based on or it's based on two lightly made points earlier in the movie. Hendrix pulls up the power line when they're dredging after the first kill. Yeah, love it.

40:02Sean Fennessey:Chekhov's power line. And then the shark expert is like, and they're also attracted by sonar. Like, they're attracted by science. And... But if you're not paying attention hardcore to these random scenes, you're like, how the fuck is this working? Like, how is he banging on a wire and the shark is coming for it?

40:19Bill Simmons:He's like, they're also attracted to hot girls. Most rewatchable. I think Eddie getting eaten is the best thing. Yeah, can we just do the doomed sailing trip? How about the last 50 minutes? That's the most rewatchable. But I would go Eddie.

40:34Sean Fennessey:The woman pouring gasoline on herself is the scene I will watch for the rest of my life. I like the chopper. And within the doomed sailing trip, I think the chopper is so fucking cool.

40:43Bill Simmons:What do you have for what's the most 1978 thing about this movie? Letting kids hang out in a bar. I had that as well. 18-year-olds smoking and drinking in a bar. Yeah.

40:51Sean Fennessey:I also have Len talking to Martin Brody about Martin Brody's wife, where he's like, she's a hell of a woman. Sir, we gotta bring that back. Phoebe is a hell of a woman, Chris.

41:03Bill Simmons:That's just fucking weird. Gary Simmons. I'm gonna do that over July 4th weekend. I'm just gonna start complimenting my friend's wives. See how it goes. You wanna mug a soda? I have a runner-up, Donna Wilkes, who we'll talk about later, who's, you might know for the people listening from this movie, is the woman who's the kind of hot new girl in town, but then just screams for the last 10 minutes of the movie. Yes. In complete peril. Her hair. Yep. Very late 70s specific. There was only a two-year era where anybody had that haircut. Yeah, it's like bangs. Almost like a bowl cut bangs, but it popped out on the side.

41:42Bill Simmons:Everybody had it. So it just makes me think of that. Hard to believe it didn't stick around. What's the age of the best? Kids in the 70s hanging out with a guitar at the beach? Yeah. This was your time, CR. This is when you would have thrived. I would have been the Bon Iver of Amity. Just people. You need a pack of cigs and a guitar.

42:06Sean Fennessey:Just mad chicks coming up. Holocene on a boat is something I now need to see. Yeah, I have a lot of the teenage behavior is age the best for me, including just being like, we've got beers stowed away in a garage. You know those beers have just been cooking all summer? oh yeah they've got to do what they're going to do um how about having a code for get me out of this situation when Brody's like we got to look into that 908 and he's like what's a 908 and he's like I just wanted you to get me out of there we got to do more of that right uh yeah what should it should be like a mid pod thing where like Bill's on a jag about some girl's haircut and I'm like CR 908 908

42:50Bill Simmons:is it a build it's a 908 problem the late 70s summer beach montage I had in the What's Age of Best where there it's like a guy or a little kid putting mustard on a hot dog and then somebody's flying a kite and it was just like very 70s. Is that maybe nostalgic?

43:07Sean Fennessey:In the lead up to the killer whale? The beached whale?

43:11Bill Simmons:No, it's the lead up to when he goes he's in the shark tower. Yeah. They have this montage of everyone's having fun at the beach and then it finishes as Brody in the shark tower. Okay. And it just made me nostalgic. Now you just see somebody with a fucking COVID mask on and two guys smoking pot. What beach are you on? I don't know. Amity. Amity's been done. Did something happen? I don't know. You're building a shark tower in your yard and you think beaches look like The Last of Us.

43:42Sean Fennessey:It's the second straight pot that Bill has brought up people just smoking marijuana in public. He seems annoyed by this. Do you think cocaine came up enough on After Hours? well the floor is yours I've heard from some concerned listeners who are like not enough or too much maybe we needed a cocaine expert on the interesting was one available expert for which part just like what it feels like to be up all night on cocaine out in New York City not that the character is but that Martin Scorsese certainly had been I think that's a fair point should we just retake the whole pod delete what we had No, I just want to pass along some feedback.

44:21Bill Simmons:As you know, neither have I. We'll make up for it when Rousseau and I do Casablanca. On blow? After doing a few lives. Just YouTube with a fucking mirror in the middle? Yeah.

44:35Sean Fennessey:This is what it was like to own a bar in Morocco.

44:38Bill Simmons:Cruising car culture. One of the screenwriters, Carl Gottlieb, said he got the idea because of this sailboat thing because so many people would just drive around in cars, which we've seen in Dazed and Confused other movies. Yeah. And he was like, well, let's do this with sailboats. Like these kids every day, they just go out in the water.

44:56Sean Fennessey:Pretty good idea. It's very American graffiti in general, the movie.

45:00Bill Simmons:I like it.

45:00Sean Fennessey:Yeah. I had...

45:02Bill Simmons:Now they'd be playing Fortnite. Like, just be five kids in five different houses. Just like, dude, power me up.

45:14Bill Simmons:I'm losing my life.

45:15Sean Fennessey:Yeah. I feel like you've been radicalized by something. Yeah, I just like this era.

45:19Bill Simmons:I like when people hung out and did shit together. Yeah, that's true. Let's bring it back. Yeah, let's bring it back. My last What's Aged the Best is just Tina screaming, SHUT!

45:31Bill Simmons:I have a couple other ones. Lighthouses? Yeah. Those have aged well? It's like seeing them in movies. Okay. They typically do aged well, though. They'll show it early. they'll be like we got a lighthouse in this movie I'm like okay we're coming back yeah sign me up maids that show up for a work already dressed like a maid is it the maid or is she the babysitter what is she I don't know why do they need one too they don't do any parenting I miss this is like a big thing in TV shows in the 70s when they have a small clapboard house but I'm like

46:04Sean Fennessey:why does she have this job as a secretary and then she's employing somebody to work in the house like just quit your job and take care of your family for Christ's sake do you think it's like a keeping up with the Joneses kind of thing where like Len makes it seem like oh you don't have any help you gotta do that to be successful it's like so work for me terrible maybe it's a comment on capitalism sure

46:24Bill Simmons:the last one I had was the idea of seeing the shark early and often was smart you gotta zag from the last movie you're not building up any suspense we know what the shark looks like that was Jeannot's big theory let's see the shark Big Kuhnberger order best use of food and drink The Punch not a ton yeah but the punch sucked right the pizza that Mike and his buddies are eating at the bar and they say to the bartender this is the only place that the garbage man delivers that looks like some rank bar pizza I know it looks gnarly I'm just saying it's the best use I'm not saying I don't want to eat it great shot go to award most cinematic shot it's probably Eddie getting pulled down I like the water skiing stuff I like a lot of the wide shots of her going back and forth across the ocean good wide shot of that scene when the when he's picking up the poison bullets.

47:14Bill Simmons:Oh, yeah. And the son comes over and help, and they do a nice little wide shot with the water. Oh, you know what's a great one, though?

47:19Sean Fennessey:We didn't talk about the very beginning when they're at the gala event at the... And I don't even... What building is that that they're in? It's the new... It's like the new conference center that they've built, I think. Where the high school band is playing, and there's like a long crane shot that goes all the way over the swimming pool and then down to the... Classic Jeanneau. Yeah, I bet that was Hancock in his bag, and they were like, get this guy the fuck out of here. It feels like that. It does feel like that.

47:40Bill Simmons:Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness where Best Needle Drop they don't throw a 70s song in this I think just Rockin' John John Williams J-Dubbs J-Dubbs just killing it there's stuff on the radio but I couldn't even determine what it was they don't sing anything I feel like Fault in Myra would have killed it too Fault in Myra the big two I've been working on this riff the Sean Fantasy word for stealth homage that gives every movie nerd a criteria orgasm

48:02Sean Fennessey:I mean the Mutiny on the Bounty speech that Douglas gives where he gives the Captain Bly you know that's a great moment Douglas would a fucking dork.

48:11Bill Simmons:I don't have a best character name. There's no Chess Rockwell Brocklanders award this episode. I was just thinking... I even looked through the IMDb to make sure. I think Len Peterson is a really good real estate developer name. I like Dr.

48:24Sean Fennessey:Elkins. I think it's pretty good. I also think just a gal named Marge. Who's the last Marge that was under the age of 80 that you've seen?

48:30Bill Simmons:That's true. That's why she died. CR Flex category. I gotta do Sean Penn brought my own pack. We do this for all the shiders, but three cigarettes with coffee before breakfast is really elite shit. Yeah, I read his Wikipedia and I was just waiting for the COPD barograph. I'm not sure it's in there, but he definitely died a little early. And then I also, just for fun, I did Den of Thieves Benihana Award for the Hog's Breath Saloon, which is a real Florida place. It was on an island, but they moved it to Destin. yeah it looks like it actually reminded me of the the Squire and Chatham but it definitely looks like a Massachusetts bar a little bit like good job with that the Butch's Girlfriend Award we link in the film is the first hour it's just slow mine was could be tighter the incredulity of the town council I think I think we we have enough evidence to suggest that A this guy knows what he's talking about and B this can happen here so for as freaked out as you might be about your new hotel like you should maybe give him some I had that in what stage the worst but that's a good call.

49:36Bill Simmons:But we talked about It also doesn't really matter. when the people the heroes of the previous movie who have no credibility with anybody nobody's like maybe we should listen to him. He did he was right the last time. He did find the Ark of the Covenant. Yeah. That's a good point. Maybe he's honest. No. They don't do it. Do you have a butcher's girlfriend?

49:57Sean Fennessey:It's kind of tied up in my flex.

50:00Bill Simmons:All right. Wait. What's age the worst other than Lorraine Gary being married to the head of Universal and somehow getting cast in all of these movies. How did they decide to make this movie and have multiple kids in the group get killed, but none of them were Larry Vaughn Jr.? Wouldn't that have been the natural revenge for Jaws 1? Well, he should have died early in the movie, and that's what Larry's come to Jesus moment. Did we need Larry Vaughn Jr. in the last 20 minutes? He absolutely should have died.

50:27Sean Fennessey:I think that he's not killed because then they don't have to show the mayor cope with that in any way because we know the mayor was not available for the end of this movie shoot. Oh, because he left the shoot. Yes. Why? That's because his, well, this is, his wife had to get a biopsy. Murray Hamilton. They thought she had cancer. Murray Hamilton's real life wife. And so he did like, you know, all of his days in five days. Okay. And then they got him off the set, which is one of the reasons why the movie kind of ends the way that it does. It doesn't, there's no conclusive moment. And he is actually to, you know, in terms of his performance, he's like, I'm only like a figurehead.

51:01Like the Len guy is obviously running the town and he's just like kind of shuffling along. The movie ends

51:06Bill Simmons:after Roy Shatter electrocutes the shark and we didn't need to see Mayor Vaughn anyway. So I think Larry should have been shoot to smithereens. Okay. Okay. Yeah, fuck that guy. Fuck that family.

51:17Sean Fennessey:Yeah.

51:17Bill Simmons:All the deaths they cause. Marge has to die

51:19Sean Fennessey:and he gets to live. Can I throw in an additional Larry Vaughn what's age the worst? Yeah. When Larry goes up to Michael and he's like, dad's got you working, huh? And it's just like, hey, fuck you, man. Remember when you sent my dad out there to get eaten? like I'm fucking working I'm not working mind your own business the Brody should have hated Maribond yeah classic politician son not a nice guy what else do you have for what's your worst

51:40Bill Simmons:anything

51:40Sean Fennessey:um no I don't

51:43Bill Simmons:we'll have a couple um Mike Brody mm-hmm terrible actor tough so bad that he gets knocked unconscious and he's giving the same performance unconscious as he was during the first hour of the movie Yeah. Also, terrible big brother. Don't bring your little eight-year-old out for your big let's all get drunk and sailboats. And like, maybe not the best place for your old brother.

52:11Sean Fennessey:I do believe this was Mark Gruner's final credit as an actor. It says that he is a former American actor. Yes.

52:18Bill Simmons:I wonder what he does now. Listen, sometimes things aren't your calling and you realize it and you move on to the next thing. Is he the kid from the first Jaws? Is it like the same? It's not Michael from the first Jaws. No. like Donna Wilkes is she's like are you gonna be there tomorrow and he's like I don't know maybe well he's playing hard to get or he's half dead he's not a very good actor I agree with that there's no black people in this movie but there's no black people in Jaws 1 either but maybe this is Amity where they just it's just all white people are you saying

52:50Sean Fennessey:Jim Crow still exists

52:51Bill Simmons:in Amity I don't understand why there aren't any black people in this movie maybe we could do Sinners a sequel that connects to the Jaws world well really good I have the Van Lathan Award did this movie need more black people I would go a step further one black person anybody who's not a white person what's going on in Amity? Why couldn't Brody have a new deputy who's black? Are there no minorities in Amity at all?

53:11Sean Fennessey:Maybe this is a parable about punishing the white oppressor by having them killed by sharks in this community but then they they put Lou Gossett Jr. through hell in the next film that's true

53:21Bill Simmons:but then Mario Van Peebles gets his revenge that's true in the climax Bob rescues Lucy from the shark and then but then gets bitten in half. Yeah. And it's so gruesome. They decided this will get us an R. We can't have this in the theater. So Bob survives, but I'm not sure you can see Bob. I would say one of the things that's aged the worst is, while realistic that that size of a group might be hanging out during the summer, it's not good for film when you're like, there's like 22 kids here and it's hard to keep. And I feel like six of them are named Eddie. Yeah. And it's kind of hard to keep it straight.

53:57Like who's fucking who? who's hanging out, who's important. To me, it's always the guy.

54:01Sean Fennessey:I've said Bob. I don't know who Bob is. To me, it's the guy who's always not Keith Gordon. Because Keith Gordon is Keith Gordon in my head. Well, there's Napoleon Dynamite guy next to Keith Gordon. That's his buddy. Isn't that Bob? No, that's not Bob. He's the one who gets, because the Napoleon Dynamite gets Brooke. He's been pining after Brooke. Right. Right. Yeah. Who's the guy with the curly hair who's like, hey, Mike, going out today? That's, uh, that's Andy. it's just Mike Bob Eddie Andy it's all four if we could just get a little bit of roster shrinkage I think that would be great I see you want to use the stretch provision on Andy well just like seven kids I think I could keep that straight there's like 14 of them

54:41Bill Simmons:the Ruffalo Hannah Rubinick Partridge overacting word goes to Donna Wilkes who screams like an absolute maniac for the last 10 minutes of this movie it's interesting so compelling as a screamer it's both realistic but also pretty annoying and at one point We have the classic 70s move that would never happen now where the guy is telling her to calm down and does the airplane shake like in the movie Airplane. It's a borderline domestic violence moment.

55:07Sean Fennessey:Larry looks like he's going to slap her across the face.

55:09Bill Simmons:Yeah, that's another reason why he had to be eaten. That's true. But she becomes the future star. I sent this to you guys. Six years later, makes a movie called Angel. Are you announcing that for next week's rewatchable yet? A 2B classic. It's a wonderful film. I haven't seen it in a long time. But she's a high school student in Hollywood by day and a hooker on Hollywood Boulevard at night. And then a serial killer tries to kill her. And she becomes involved in some sort of serial killer thing. And it made$17 million and was a surprise hit. Is that a big... And they made like... Ty West favorite?

55:40Bill Simmons:They made like five of them.

55:40Sean Fennessey:It's one of the key inspirations for Maxine, the movie that came out a couple years ago, the horror movie, the final movie in the Ty West trilogy. My overacting goes to Ann Dusenberry as Tina Wilcox. I feel like she really... She chews the scenery every time she gets it. she like runs up to the camera she's like like every time she's really selling Miss Amity what was her title yeah she was Miss Amity Miss Amity all the guys want to get on Tina it's a lot of competition

56:07Bill Simmons:okay Sean you have a flex category

56:10Sean Fennessey:yeah so the greatest acting I've ever seen in my life award goes to Murray Hamilton who's literally doing a terrible performance and the best performance I've ever seen where you can watch him as the mayor of a town that has already endured a shark attack that becomes national news. He has presumably been re-elected mayor. It's been four years. Another shark has arrived in his town and he is compartmentalizing and just shutting it down like nothing is happening. And the reason the performance works is because he's gotten terrible news in his real life about his wife who he believes may have cancer and so he is just dead-eyed.

56:51Sean Fennessey:He can barely even talk in this movie. Murray Hamilton is barely giving a performance. He has to like pass the baton to Len in the town council meeting. Exactly. But you know, we knowing what we know about the backstory, it weirdly works for the character is like this politician has sold his soul. But in fact, it was just a man who could barely finish the day as an actor. And that to me is cinema. And Scheider was like,

57:14Bill Simmons:I thought I was going to be the only one mailing it in.

57:19Sean Fennessey:This guy's mailing it in you can barely even see. It's a good one.

57:23Bill Simmons:I had this brings us to the CR things Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford had his take award I'm glad you brought up Mervon I think Mervon keeping his job after Jaws won Is the biggest reach in movie sequel history. You might be right. So it's in the finals for me with after Halloween 2 when Michael Myers gets shot in both eyeballs and shot. I think he's been shot like a total of 13 times at that point and stabbed in the neck and blows up in the fire and burns to death when he then comes back two movies later. That would be my other choice. But Mervon, like, I just don't think he's getting reelected.

58:01Bill Simmons:I actually don't think he should be allowed to live in Amity. I don't even know if he should be a free man. The Kindner family is suing the town of Amity for seven years. And it's going to be like the Gawker Hulk Hogan settlement. It's going to be like$115 million out of this. It's going to be renamed Kinderville. And he's going to jail. That's how it's not even forget that getting reelected. He's going to prison for what he did to the little Alex Kindner. And if we're just whiteboarding here, how cool would Jaws 2 be? And this not 2B2. It's like a Shawshank type movie? if Brody, big fucking hero of Jaws 1, Mare?

58:38Rides the wave to Mare and now finds himself in Larry's position. Mare Brody. Yeah, where he's like, fuck. I mean, there's a lot of responsibility that comes with this job. A lot of financial pressure. That may be a shark. It may not be. And then he's the one resisting. We get a new Brody coming in.

58:57Sean Fennessey:I'm zagging. I'm going the other way. In fact, in America, we love our dirty politicians and we love for them to be revived in the national consciousness and we are living through a moment just like you right now I don't even think he was revived I think they were just like, oh, I got that one wrong he hit a rough patch and he bounced back also you never know with those island communities because it's so full of summer people who probably aren't voting in local elections so if the locals are like, this one this guy, he looks out for our best financial interest maybe they re-elect him what are your thoughts, Craig?

59:31Well, I feel like him falling into the same trap again. He gets reelected. And then once again, Brody's like, hey, I think there's a shark in the water. And he's like, nah, lightning can't strike twice.

59:43Sean Fennessey:A little dubious. The truth is actually that there are two sharks in Jaws. There's the shark that they catch at the beginning and then another. So we know that this is shark waters. The two divers went missing, a charred body washed up on shore. And he is still like, we don't know. In fairness, the charred body washing on shore is one of the craziest things that's ever happened in the history of movies. I can see him being a little bit confused by that one. What's your hottest take? I think if Cousin Jackie never shows up in Amity, we have a much lower body count because all those guys are so trimstruck by her that they are like...

1:00:19Trimstruck? Posh it up. Is that a phrase? Trimstruck? There's a less polite way of saying it. Yeah.

1:00:28Sean Fennessey:it's different four little words but lots of guys are like we gotta fucking take Jackie sailing you know like it's like she's she's driving all of this and I feel like she has some culpability in this and I honestly find her her freaking out and her trauma to be a little you know unearned

1:00:43Bill Simmons:I also think Tina there has I think it's a much more interesting if we're just with the kids the whole time yes yeah I think Tina immediately hates the new girl Jackie yeah that's kind of Tina and Jackie hate each other Brooke like you know there's like a whole summer I turned pretty thing going on with Brooke. You know, there's just a lot going on. Good, could have been a good season one of a terrible Amazon show. Did people used to have sex on sailboats? That just, that didn't make sense to me. Because if it doesn't go well, then you're stuck at sea. Yeah,

1:01:15Sean Fennessey:not a big sailboat guy myself, so I can't say.

1:01:17Bill Simmons:It seems a little risky with the water and the way things kind of move up and down. And again, if she turns you down, then you're just a thousand feet deep into the ocean. you get into the boat. True.

1:01:26Sean Fennessey:Yeah, that's not ideal. How's the first season of Trim Struck going? You've been working on it? Some rewrites. There is like a very funny, it's always sunny bit. Some peacock. About like taking wind out on the water for the implication.

1:01:40Bill Simmons:It's a Shudder original. Did you have a hottest take?

1:01:44Sean Fennessey:I do. We've been talking a lot about 1977 and what a critical year that was. We've already done an episode on Jaws. And on the Jaws episode, on the Star Wars episode, we said that those were the movies that kind of killed the new Hollywood. But this is actually the movie that killed the new Hollywood. This is the one that... This movie being okay and making$78 million in 1978 is when it's over. That's because Jaws and Star Wars are special. This movie is fun, but it's not special. And that is why we are where we are.

1:02:17Bill Simmons:That's how we got to 1983 with Superman 3 and all those other ones. But did the people in 1978 feel that way? Because when Empire Strikes Back came out, they were probably excited. No. When Jaws 2 came out, was everybody pissed? No. I'll tell you firsthand. Wanted to go first day. Was more excited for Rocky 2. They could have kept serving him out.

1:02:35Sean Fennessey:Yep.

1:02:35Bill Simmons:But after the movie came out and the reviews were middling, was everybody like, this was a mistake, we need to stop? Or was it like, ah? No. America wanted it. The other thing is, you didn't really get to see these movies after they were in the movie theater unless they were on ABC.

1:02:49Sean Fennessey:Yeah. Well, there was still something relatively novel about a sequel. I mean, they were criticized for being unoriginal, but there were not a thousand of them like there are now like Chris was asking about Spielberg is a good example of what how it changes is like he's like I think that making sequels is like for carnies yeah and then he makes the lost world and then he makes four sequels you know

1:03:07Bill Simmons:you can't overstate how little we had going on in the late 70s like when baseball went on strike it was one of the worst things that ever happened to me in 1981 it was just like oh my god it was like this black fucking hole yeah like there's nothing there's nothing could compare to that did you want to

1:03:25Sean Fennessey:pour gasoline FanDuel is now available everywhere in the U.S. I've been everywhere, man. I've been everywhere, man. So you can get in on the sports action no matter where you are, including these places.

1:03:39Bill Simmons:Bend to Georgia, Houston, Cleveland, Minnesota, Buffalo, Lincoln, Chi-Town, Arizona, Tampa.

1:03:44Sean Fennessey:Make this your most rewarding season ever with FanDuel. Age and location restrictions apply. Product availability varies by market. See FanDuel.com for eligibility. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER.

1:03:56Bill Simmons:This episode is brought to you by Mazda. Want to be as confident behind the wheel as I am about a movie nobody else will admit as a top five all-timer? Get the Mazda CX-50 Hybrid. It comes standard with a suite of proactive safety features and lets you explore far and wide with an EPA-estimated 38 miles per gallon combined in electronic all-wheel drive. Mazda, move and be moved. Visit MazdaUSA.com. Discover how confidence comes standard. Mileage will vary based on vehicle condition, driving habits, and other factors used for comparison purposes only. Actual results will vary. This message is brought to you by Apple Card.

1:04:34Bill Simmons:With Apple Card, you earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases like groceries, merch, or tickets to the game. Plus, it can be used anywhere. MasterCard is accepted. No matter your team, no matter where you shop, Apple Card is here to help you tackle game day. Apply in the Wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval, Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at AppleCard.com.

1:04:57Sean Fennessey:On your cell phone, that happened? No!

1:05:01Bill Simmons:Let's take a break. We'll do casting what ifs. All right. So there's a great casting what if for this movie. This is one of my favorite casting what ifs of all time. What is it? I don't know. Roy Scheider. He's going to do Deer Hunter. Oh, yes.

1:05:13Sean Fennessey:Okay. A reverse casting what if.

1:05:15Bill Simmons:This is up there with Fishburne for me, though. Yeah, can't agree on the money for Deer Hunter. He created problems with Chimito, too. Yeah, and somehow he's out and ends up, the Universal's like, well, you gotta do a movie with us. You're doing Jaws, too. And he wasn't gonna be in Jaws, too. But what part is he in Deer Hunter? He was gonna be De Niro.

1:05:31Sean Fennessey:That's insane. He was gonna be Michael. That would not have worked. Well. I'm very happy we got what we got. You're happy we ended up with one of the best actors of all time? But in that part, it's just, I don't know, that doesn't feel like a Shider part to me. It's kind of similar to Sorcerer. You know the great casting What If of Sorcerer is he wanted him to queen and he went with Scheider and I think it's better that he went with Scheider even though it would have been cool with McQueen. Deer Hunter with Scheider, I don't know. I think he's too old to be the Deer Hunter. I probably agree with you but there is...

1:06:00I think he would have been good though. I like Scheider. There's something about his career where he is like such a great second guy in a lot of movies and then even in Jaws like arguably as second to the shark.

1:06:08Bill Simmons:Yeah, because in Deer Hunter you're playing, you're basically playing off a bunch of these great actors but, you know.

1:06:14Sean Fennessey:I mean, you're going opposite Walken in Walken's greatest performance. That's tough. I mean, the fact that De Niro holds the weight against Walken is a big part of why the movie works. I feel like Shire goes toe-to-toe with Hoffman and Olivier and Marathon Man and Hackman. I mean, he's not Hackman.

1:06:30Bill Simmons:We're going to do Deer Hunter live. It's going to be a live show. Live Russian Roulette. Yeah, we're going to have CR play Russian Roulette in front of 1 ,270 people at the Wilshire E-Ball. While doing Bernthal. John Bernthal and I do Russian Roulette together.

1:06:45Sean Fennessey:Live in Da Nang. the crowd's like

1:06:47Bill Simmons:what's this deer hunter movie they're doing is it a comedy

1:06:54Bill Simmons:anyway Shatter agreed got 500k got points was miserable most of the time and it worked out great for him and then he had all that jazz the next year and then his career went like that there's a bit about how he was so dedicated to the idea of getting out of this movie that he faked a nervous breakdown and trashed like the Beverly Wilshire or something like that he like trashed his room to give it evidence of his mental state and they were like you're doing you're Martin Brody there were some John D. Hancock hires that they got rid of once they changed the records Ricky Schroeder was supposed to be Sean Brody and then he got bounced for the other Sean Brody and then Dreyfuss they asked him tried to get him and he said he wouldn't return unless he got to fuck Mrs.

1:07:43Bill Simmons:Brody finally in the movie and they said can't do that. That didn't happen. That's happening in Trimstruck, though. Yeah. Well, for the people listening, we did the Jaws research. In the book, Dreyfus' character has an affair with Mrs. Brody. Remember? Right. I forgot about that. Yeah. They decided not to put that in the movie. Probably a good idea.

1:08:05Sean Fennessey:So Dreyfus instead made the big fix, a film no one's ever seen. Dreyfus made some mistakes.

1:08:11Bill Simmons:Yeah. Because he turned down all that jazz. I did not know about the big fix. we did this when we did the Dick Dreyfuss whatever we did. We did Close Encounters. Yeah, we did all the things that he didn't do and there was a few of them. Best that guy word. Keith Gordon not eligible and Donna Wilkes is not eligible. I got Joe Mascolo as Len Peterson. He was on Days of Our Lives for 34 years. I can't argue with that. 34 years. So I mine was Jeffrey Kramer who then parlayed. He was the sidekick of Chief Brody. And went on to do Halloween too, ironically. graduate of Ithaca College which is where I went to school Jeffrey Kramer yeah yeah he's one of the police people in Halloween too oh yeah he's very upset about that they can't catch Mars Deion Waiters award Keith Gordon as Doug Fetterman or perhaps a first in the history of Deion Waiters the unseen character Grace Kinney the one who's teasing the old guy's oldest teenage boy through the window and they're having like the meeting at the beginning of all the people are coming to the police station they're like hey Brody Brody and he's just like she's teasing my son it's probably Keith Gordon yeah does he dial it up no but I'm just he's the only kid that stands out of all those kids he gets your Captain Blythe moment

1:09:28Sean Fennessey:he does yeah I guess it is Keith Gordon Craig you have a flex category I'm gonna go with the I used to fuck guys like you in prison award for the craziest quote this movie's pretty pretty PG yeah And then there's that one scene when Jackie shows up on the dock and Larry Vaughn Jr. looks at her and he's like, eh, tits like a sparrow. That was crazy. What does that mean to me? It was really mean. That was the Hancock cut. Yeah. That was weird. Do sparrows have tits? Never heard. I think it's meant to be flat-chested. I think it's supposed to just be flat-chested, yeah. Never heard that phrase, gonna holster it.

1:10:04Sean Fennessey:Yeah. And Jackie was like, one day I'll be angel and I'll be on the streets of Los Angeles. Okay, I'm gonna find a serial killer. Maybe you're going to break it out on Ringer Fantasy. Yeah, you know. Jalen Ramsey. Tits like a sparrow.

1:10:17Bill Simmons:Half-Eyes Center Research. We covered a lot of this stuff. They filmed the Hogs Breast Saloon CR mentioned. It's on Oskaloosa Island. They filmed a lot of Navarre Beach. I don't even know where that is. Is that like in the Keys? It's in Florida. I think it's on the Gulf side. I don't know. But it's in Florida somewhere. the kid who played Sean said they were filming scenes with all the kind of wrecked things and actual hammerheads started circling them at one point and they were all scared and then on the birdies front porch they had a flower planter painted bright yellow and it was one of the barrels from the first job they just kind of snuck that in that's so cool because when he comes home after getting fired he stares at the barrel and I was like what's up with that then they had that cable junction where the end of the movie is it was a set they built and at some point something got fucked up and it just started floating away and they almost lost.

1:11:11Sean Fennessey:I read that it's really slippery and they kept falling off. Yeah, because the rocks are fiberglass.

1:11:17Bill Simmons:And then I mean the movies that came out after Jaws 1, Orca, Piranha, Tentacles, Killer Fish, Barracuda, Tentorera, Killer Shark, Blood Beach, Piranha 2, The Last Shark, Up From the Depths, Humanities From the Deep, The Island of the Fishman and Devilfish are all movies that came out. Fucking Blood Beach. Evil Fish. Blood Beach. They just went for it. And then there's some Jaws too. Like there's a Topps trading card set. Is there? Yeah. A Jaws too that I don't think is going like hotcakes. Let's do an unboxing video right now. I don't think it's, probably that would be fun actually. That'd be great.

1:11:55Bill Simmons:You get those boxes for like 20 bucks. What's in, is it just like Jaws? Like who's on the cards? It would be, they would have like the scenes from the movie like Eddie's in danger. It's Cousin Jackie. Ellen Brody. Your fave. And then they were going to use the sharks from the original film, but they had rusted and rotted away in Universal Studios. It's weird that it took four years and they made no technological advances in shark technology. I do like... It is a better shark. The burned shark. But it sounds like it broke as much. Apex Mountain. Shatter, no. Sequels, no. Lorraine Gary. Sounds like Jaws 4.

1:12:37Bill Simmons:Yeah, that's her centerpiece. That's her highlight. Donna Wilkes, definitely Angel. Definitely. High school student by day, hooker by night. Serial killer, victim by...

1:12:48Sean Fennessey:Where would you say the word hooker sits in your all-time word rankings? Top 20? Top 50?

1:12:54Bill Simmons:It's like those old ABC promos. Somebody's killing hookers. And Dan Tan has got to find out who. coming up tonight on Vegas after your local news. To catch a killer, you've got to become a killer tonight on Charlie's Angels.

1:13:13Sean Fennessey:You're doing Ernie Anderson. I know. GTA's dad. That's what he would do.

1:13:18Bill Simmons:Apex Mountain. Every kid except Keith Gordon probably is their Apex Mountain being in this movie, I'm guessing. Water skiing murders, I'm going to say yes. I'm going to make the case for water skiing. because this is right around Fonzie jumping the shark on Happy Days. This is like Apex water skiing. You've ever done water skiing? No. Because of this movie or because you just don't want it? Because I wear contacts. It sounds miserable.

1:13:46Sean Fennessey:Okay. Have you done it? No. Have you ever done it nude?

1:13:52Bill Simmons:Sharks, no. Murray Hamilton, definitely not. Terrible making of documentaries about a movie. Fun. It's a good one. I enjoyed this one. Yeah. it's one of the worst making why is it 40 minutes? this is Jaws 2?

1:14:06Sean Fennessey:I'll watch every one of these forever two old ass producers have you ever seen the marathon man one that we were talking about where it's just Robert Evans direct to camera standing with his foot up on a chair I love it it's like 30 years from now if you were just like dictating to someone what a genius you were in every decision you made at the ringer like that's what everybody wants a Grantland oral history you should do it but straight to camera no one else just you the one of the producers

1:14:38Bill Simmons:it's just so funny they ask him about John D. Hancock or he's trying to explain why he left and he's like did a great job it just wasn't really and he like clearly just fucking shanked the guy and fired him yeah he torpedoed his whole career yeah he's like wasn't anything John was doing yeah it wasn't I thought it was really terrible Oh, this'll be good. We didn't get to do this for Jaws 1. Cruise or Hanks? I got this. Young Cruise is Michael. Like losing at Cruise? Taps, losing at Cruise. Kind of looks like him, too. I do believe that's accurate. I thought this category was about the star. Yeah, it's gotta be the star.

1:15:19It's who's Shider. No, right? Is it? Yeah. Who's the main character? I mean, you did an end around.

1:15:26Sean Fennessey:I would say Hanks is Brody but Cruz is any other character except for the mayor including Len

1:15:35Bill Simmons:can we talk this out yeah Hanks would be the typical Chief Brody I think I would rather see Cruz's Chief Brody especially like him in the shark tower well drunk Cruz too we'd get drunk Cruz what does he

1:15:50Sean Fennessey:what does Brody say when he's trying to draw Jaws in to the electric cable what's his like final where he's like, come on, you son of a bitch. Yeah,

1:15:59Bill Simmons:I forget what his one is. Well, because the first one is smile,

1:16:01Sean Fennessey:you son of a bitch. It's a variation on that. Bite down, you little bitch.

1:16:06Bill Simmons:Yeah, Cruz hitting with the paddle, hitting the electric cable. We would get one really good Cruz running on the beach shot, you know, like maybe he had to get from the shark tower to like, you know, a hundred yards away. I think this is the answer. I think it's Hanks for Jaws 1. I think Jaws 2 needs Cruz. I think we need the unintentional comedy. I think there's an extra scene where he's like playing billiards and just like wiping the floor with his deputy.

1:16:31Sean Fennessey:Crew's legendarily bad at playing drunk, though. And that's kind of a feature of Martin Brody. But that would make Joss two more fun.

1:16:38Bill Simmons:He's like, oh, Chief Brody's fucked up. He comes and he's like, the mayor is galactically stupid! Scorsese or Spielberg? Obviously Spielberg. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? I mean, young Philip Seymour Hoffman could have been a teen. So I had as one of the kids Like the Scent of a Woman era of Philip Seymour Hoffman

1:16:57Sean Fennessey:Deputy Hendrix?

1:16:59Bill Simmons:Maybe, like doing like his Along Came Polly kind of craziness Mikey As Freddy There's some peeping going on in this movie Pick and nits I know we talked about the water skiing boat Blowing up and how ridiculous that whole thing was But I just want to say again How ridiculous that whole thing was I almost feel like we should go we should do like a separate like let's break down this scene a little bit. Yeah. And it's really only like 30 seconds of her after the parrot the skier has gotten killed where she's just like God. All right. Well I'm option A is I could dive out and just run for swim for it.

1:17:37The shore is there. Option B is I could just stay put and hope the shark goes away or C I could cover myself in gasoline and then then it opens up a bunch of different things you could do. You know, maybe he doesn't like gasoline. Isn't the move to just be still in the boat?

1:17:55Sean Fennessey:Well, a character does it later in the movie.

1:17:57Bill Simmons:You know, that's how

1:17:58Sean Fennessey:Tina survives.

1:17:59Bill Simmons:The move is definitely not to pour gasoline on herself. It's one of the best things I've ever seen in a movie. Not the flare gun! It's like the only flammable thing. No, it's honestly like what would happen in a naked gun hot shots version of this movie would be with that scene. It's also great how the old woman's like, ah, shit, I gotta call the cops.

1:18:20Sean Fennessey:It's a great explosion, too. The boat explosion is awesome.

1:18:23Bill Simmons:They used to really blow shit up back then. I only have one other pick and knit. So, they finally save Sean. Not when Marge dies, like before. And the friend, like Mike's friend, he's like, we got you, buddy. And he keeps kissing him on the cheek, and it's just weird because they're not related.

1:18:42Sean Fennessey:It's like, what are you doing? Andy is a little familiar with Sean.

1:18:44Bill Simmons:What was that? Hey, Andy, how's the peepin'? it's a little creepy yeah if somebody kissed my son at that eight year old son don't you kiss my son on the cheek like that over and over again I'd be like dude full Sean Penn Mr. River what the fuck buddy

1:19:00Sean Fennessey:is that my son in your arms what uh

1:19:06Bill Simmons:any more pick and answer now oh we covered a lot of them sequel prequel prestige TV all black cast are untouchable um I mean obviously prequel is the answer yeah I think we all would have wanted Anthology. I think I would actually throw a new category of anthology.

1:19:20Sean Fennessey:I always thought that, so they said that they went to Howard Sackler to write this movie because he worked on the first script. Uncredited. Uncredited and was responsible for the Indianapolis speech. But I always thought that was John Milius who wrote the Indianapolis speech. So I don't really understand. Am I wrong about that? I mean, there's, I thought we said that too. I mean, this is also just like, you're just reading the reporting about this stuff. So I'm not sure, but I thought Gottlieb was the one who was like, I can whip up a screenplay about the USS Indianapolis, but maybe I'm wrong.

1:19:52Either way, they should have made that movie. I can't believe they're not, I can't believe they're just... It's surprising it's not happening now. That Apple's not like, here's$500 million, go make that movie.

1:19:59Bill Simmons:I agree. They probably are making it with like Javier Bardem and Emma Stone. That sounds awesome. Why? But neither of them would be U.S. Naval officers.

1:20:09Sean Fennessey:Apple doesn't care. They'd need two people for the photo. Because it's a woke Jaws prequel? They just need famous people in their photos. The first Spaniard commanding a United States aircraft.

1:20:21Bill Simmons:We'll work around that later. We'll CGI it.

1:20:23Sean Fennessey:Did I ever tell you guys the story about the Portuguese man of war? You know what that is? It's a giant jellyfish. My uncle used to tell me this story. He served in Korea. He used to talk about how there was a, where he served in the area near the Philippines where he was serving, there were these giant jellyfish. And you would have to like try to not, never go in the water near them because they could kill you because they were so powerful. And I always thought it would be an amazing aspect of this version of the story where you'd be like, you'd have, you'd be beset on all sides by sharks and giant jellyfish.

1:20:57Sean Fennessey:And like, there would be like a lot of kill opportunities in this world. Instead of just like some kids on a dinghy stuck in the middle of Amity Island where like, it's kind of... So you think there's a jellyfish

1:21:09Bill Simmons:movie in efficiency right now? I think, yeah, they look cool. We're not taking enough chance they have no soul the big thing well i remember when they made anaconda and i'm like what the why are they doing this this sounds stupid i've seen it 10 times yeah there's going

1:21:24Sean Fennessey:to be a new one in uh on christmas paul rudd and jack black they're remaking anaconda it's on the rewatchables list you know i there is a there is a secret sequel connective tissue thing here because isn't the indianapolis the boat that drops the the bomb off for for the air force in World War II, right? Weren't they bringing the bomb to Japan? That sounds right. So like, Oppenheimer could have ended Pan Wright. That's great. The USS Indianapolis is leaving. That's the sequel for Oppenheimer. Chris Nolan presents Jaws 5, the prequel. That's a really good idea.

1:21:59Bill Simmons:Let's get him on the phone. Is this movie better than Wayne Jenkins, Daniel Trey, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell Byron Mayo, Bernie Cousins, Tony Romo, Harling Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Longlegs, or Wilford Brimley in The Firm? Oh, no. I really was, I was really just thinking mostly because of his pre, you know, his priors with doing a goddamn shark ate me. Well, that's Dave Chappelle. But Sam Jackson just being like, Mayor Larry got reelected. Like the one guy who's just commenting on actual civic politics. That's good. Yeah. That is good. How the fuck did that guy get reelected?

1:22:38Bill Simmons:Do we need to bump any of these people from the list? We haven't done Harling Mays. And Barney Cousins. Do they need to go? Need to add some new ones for the summer. Yeah, we'll mix it up. Maybe we add Jaws 2 Lady. Jaws 2 Lady. But with Jaws 2 Lady, I'm just covered guests.

1:22:58Sean Fennessey:I do think Doris Burke doing just the last lines of dialogue that Brody has. Oh, yeah. Where he's like, he's like, all right, you big bastard. Come on. I've got something for you now. That's it. Attaboy. Right here, Mr. Jaws. Open wide and say, ah.

1:23:20Bill Simmons:We see you, Mr. Jaws. And Mike, Mr. Jaws is back. And he's hungrier than ever. Bonjour, Mr. Jaws.

1:23:37Sean Fennessey:D.B. Attaboy, Mr. Jaws.

1:23:41Bill Simmons:just one Oscar who gets it let's just give this to John Williams because he has 130 of them sorry nevermind I was just gonna be like what if Shaq was like Jaws 2 couldn't hang in my generation

1:23:57these new sharks aren't physical the way Jaws was

1:24:01Bill Simmons:the ocean was so much stronger back then we never took days off back when Jaws was

1:24:10Sean Fennessey:that doesn't even make sense

1:24:13Bill Simmons:it was so much harder to get those swimmers back then

1:24:21Bill Simmons:probably an answer to a question

1:24:22Sean Fennessey:they should do inside the NBA but for movies immediately when the movie ends you cut to Chuck and Kenny and they break down Chuck's like I didn't watch it Jack's just like it was so much harder to make movies but I Kenny's running to like do a diagram of the woman lighting herself on fire

1:24:45Bill Simmons:that'd be amazing if that's just when they didn't get basketball that's just what the show became inside the NBA crossed with pop culture we couldn't get clips for the NBA but we do have the Warner Brothers movie library

1:24:58Sean Fennessey:oh I would watch that

1:24:59Bill Simmons:yeah they could do Angel

1:25:01Sean Fennessey:wow I don't know if I wanted Kenny around that one

1:25:04Bill Simmons:probably next book back in my day You could be a hooker up a night. And you could finish your schoolwork the next day. These girls. You could multitask. None of these girls multitask anymore.

1:25:25Sean Fennessey:Really good episode of this show.

1:25:29Bill Simmons:All right. Probably an answer for questions.

1:25:33Sean Fennessey:I mean, who is funding? I guess it was Len. Right, funding Mayor Vaughn's campaign? Like, is that how he won? Yeah, that's just Lin being like, you work for me.

1:25:41Bill Simmons:He bought the election? I had a... What did the final three of the Miss Amity contest look like? We know Tina took it. Who was the runner-up? Did she hang out in the group, or was it an outsider? Yeah. Where was that? Or was Tina kind of like a mafio, so it was just like, no one else is running for this? Were the town folk there? like can you imagine living in town like what are you doing tonight it's a Miss Amity contest I can imagine get to watch 17 year old girls walking around trying to become Miss Amity hey I'm gonna go to Miss Amity whatever you do don't kiss my son I'll know Miss Amity contest they have punch

1:26:22Sean Fennessey:it's a really good point this is you know this trope

1:26:25Bill Simmons:they don't have these in real life there's no Miss Amity

1:26:28Sean Fennessey:in real life isn't this prom queen but this trope is repeated in I Know What You Did Last Summer because Sarah Michelle Gellar's character wins at the beginning of that, which is an homage, I think, to this scene.

1:26:38Bill Simmons:We haven't done I Know What You Did, right? No. Martin C. Brody's 1975 Man of the Year Award? Because you see it, they show it. Who finished second? Did they go to the award ceremony? Were they just like, I have no chance this year. Brody, like, killed the shark. I mean, after Jaws won, Martin Brody would be Sully. He would just be like, that guy would never... earlier. All he got was this little shitty plaque. But there's no... He beat Larry Vaughn Jr. as the man of the year.

1:27:09Sean Fennessey:Okay, this is kind of a hot take. There's no proof of what Brody did.

1:27:16Bill Simmons:Okay. Oh, he comes back and he's like, yeah, I killed but everybody died but I killed the shark. No iPhones, no cameras, no photographs.

1:27:23Sean Fennessey:Hooper's like, yeah, it was incredible. Yeah, but these two fucking crackpots who were out on the big ocean going sea crazy. Yeah, but the shark goes away for three years the second he gets back. So sharks leave. Sharks swim away. It's very, that's great timing.

1:27:37Bill Simmons:No, I think the point is how crazy the murder of the shark is. He's the only witness of it. Right, he shoots a, he comes back, and then it came back, and then finally, he had this thing in his mouth, and I aimed it, and I nailed it, and they were like, cool, you son of a bitch. Yeah. He smiled, yeah. They were like, cool, buddy, you want a drink?

1:27:56Sean Fennessey:Is Jaws just, is the entire Jaws series is just the Martin Brody fever dream. Is he just making it all? Yeah. Or maybe it's Ellen thinking about what she wishes he was doing. Yes. On a sleepless night in Amity, Ellen Brody imagines the husband she wishes she had. It's like John Updike. That's right. It's beautiful.

1:28:16Bill Simmons:Do you think American Psycho happened?

1:28:19Sean Fennessey:In real life? No, in the movie. Is it a fantasy? I do think it's a fantasy, yeah.

1:28:25Bill Simmons:The chainsaw gives it away when he whips the chainsaw like 12 stories down and it works kills her and then we don't know how to clean it up

1:28:34Sean Fennessey:why are you stepping on the American Psycho rewatchable is that

1:28:37Bill Simmons:should we do American Psycho

1:28:39Sean Fennessey:yes definitely yes really yeah oh man that's a rewatchable it's like a beloved classic I don't know if it's a rewatchable but it's beloved do you think Inception happens I might have watched it this week like how much of Inception I wish it didn't ayo um yes yeah I think some of it happens and some of it it doesn't any other unanswerables no

1:29:01Bill Simmons:how is Larry still mayor what piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie for Sean it's clear that the gasoline can

1:29:09Sean Fennessey:yeah I would display it prominently

1:29:10Bill Simmons:I would want the Martin C. Brody 1975 man of the year in Amityville Amity trophy that's good not the barrel no I'd want the trophy I would do the barrel the planter barrel coach Finstock award best life lesson maybe believe the guy who was a prophetic hero three years before that something might be going on again. Maybe trust him for a split second.

1:29:32Sean Fennessey:Now that 10 teenagers watched him murder another shark, his second shark murder, he's confirmed. It's a shame. I gotta watch The Revenge again and find out if there was ever any legacy repair going on for him. He should be on the cover of Time Magazine.

1:29:48Bill Simmons:This would be like after OKC won the title, Presti made a deal, and the fans were like, I don't know. I don't know about this, Presti. Best double feature choices, probably Jaws. I'm going to go Jaws Revenge. I'll go with Jaws. I'd go Jaws 1 and then Jaws 2. I think Jaws Revenge makes Jaws 2 look a little bit better.

1:30:08Sean Fennessey:This made me, because there's been a lot of good shark movies. And I was thinking about this because, you know, Jurassic Park's coming out this week. And there's like no good dinosaur movies. But why do shark movies like always work? Because you can kind of hide it a little bit. Like a lot of it is tension.

1:30:26Bill Simmons:I think people have like six basic fears and this is one of them, to be in the water, being unable to fight off something that's in the water. This is an unanswerable question. You're living in Amity after Jaws. Would you still live there? How long before you get in the water again? That's how Jaws 2 should have started. It should have been like, this is the first day everyone's kind of decided to get back in the water. The first summer we're back. Yeah.

1:30:54Sean Fennessey:Probably pretty soon, I would guess. For you? Not for me personally, but I feel like people are like, eh. It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen to me.

1:31:02Bill Simmons:I mean, you're talking about a guy who used to ride a motorcycle without a helmet like 70 degrees, 70 miles an hour in the Merritt Parkway. Sure. I didn't have a lot of fear. You rode a motorcycle? Yeah.

1:31:14Sean Fennessey:You had a motorcycle? Yeah. When was that? When I was a kid. Like a Harley?

1:31:19Bill Simmons:No, not like a Honda. Like a Honda? Yeah, I had like one of those fast Hondas. That's cool. Without a helmet. It was cool until I crashed it. Yeah. You're like Bob Dylan. What the hell? I didn't have a lot of fear back then. Is this like a known story? I have a ton of fear now. About driving? No, just in general. You get older, you just fear stuff.

1:31:39Sean Fennessey:This is like your superhero origin story. You like crash this motorcycle and you're like, I'll be a sports columnist. What if I took movie quotes and put it against the NBA draft?

1:31:48Bill Simmons:someday I'll recap Jaws 2 figure out what the gasoline lady was doing we're just gonna take you to the hospital you'll see who won the movie Roy Scheider Roy Scheider yeah I had Universal

1:32:07Sean Fennessey:oh that's a good answer not Geno Schwark no he did not win the movie John Shark no who do you have I would have said Geno He saved this dog baby. You know, this thing was headed for... Didn't lead to anything. Yeah, you know what, though? I kind of also wish he hadn't... He directed Supergirl in 1984 with Helen Slater. Oh, yeah. Love Helen Slater. Fair is fair. Legend of Billie Jean, brother. One day. One day, we'll do it. Keith Gordon. A great Keith Gordon performance in the Legend of Billie Jean. You're not invited to that one. Good luck, guys. Good luck with that one.

1:32:43Bill Simmons:Craig, what did you think of Jaws 2? Sure. Sure, you know, in a vacuum, pretty good. Like if you didn't, if this movie was the first one to come out, I think it would be a quality shark slasher movie. You could make the case that if Jaws 1 didn't happen and this was the first one, that there's actually a more, like a larger Jaws franchise.

1:33:03Sean Fennessey:Oh, that might be what's holding it back. You know what I mean? Is that the original is so special. The spiel of the quality of it made it so everybody didn't want any more. But if Jaws 2 was the first one, maybe there's now 15 Jaws movies and it's like Final Destination in the water and it's a foundational slasher franchise. FD Shark. When are we going to get that? That's a great idea. I'm ready for that right now. How have they not had a shark attack in Final Destination yet? That's what Jaws could have been.

1:33:27Bill Simmons:What were your after hours thoughts while we have you? Yeah, I had never seen it. I had barely even heard of that movie and I was kind of in awe at how good it was and just how tight and smart and funny and well acted. I mean, it's really, really good. and I didn't make a ton of money. I had never really heard of it.

1:33:47Sean Fennessey:Do you think if it had just been Michael Keaton, it would have been a very famous movie? Oh, it was supposed to be Keaton? No, we were just talking about like, because Griffin Dunn is a really good actor, but he's not that famous. There's no huge stars in it. No, I didn't even, what else has he done? I don't, I haven't listened to the pod yet. American Werewolf London, yeah. Yeah, probably, yeah. But did Scorsese specifically want him? Was that?

1:34:06Bill Simmons:Yeah, he was a producer. He brought it to him. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I think it feels kind of, Watching it, I was like, this feels so small and random for who I know Scorsese to be now, which is kind of fun. I mean, it's kind of, it's not really, in my opinion, I don't think it's about a whole lot. It's just like a crazy night in New York. And it's kind of fun to see a prestige director do something like that and just have fun for 90 minutes. And it's not some big grand story of the rise and fall of Jordan Belfort or Henry Hill or something like that. It's just like, yeah, Scorsese cooking for 90 minutes in New York in the 80s.

1:34:42It's fun.

1:34:43Bill Simmons:we said that on the pod that that's we just wish directors did that more yeah yeah like blowout Brian DePaul like I just like stuff like that CR you you missed After Hours because you were away I was can I also say people were upset yeah the one big thing that stuck out about just like the time people lived in in the After Hours era was man people were just really comfortable with strangers yeah you just pick up the phone every scene is is him running up to a new person and they're like come on in right what do you need a phone yeah no problem come on up it's 3 in the morning

1:35:16Sean Fennessey:that's how you still operate though anybody wants to knock on my door what's your address just give it out here well you know what's funny is the other night before we left do you know about this tiktok trend where kids pull up and kick your door have you heard about that what no you ever heard about this no well they did it to my house no way yeah it was pretty scary not scary but it was loud what do you mean kick your door they pull up to a stop they jump out and they like kick on your door really hard and then run back to the car and drive away. So it's like a fucked up doorbell ditch. Yeah, but they're like filming it, I guess, or whatever.

1:35:49And they wait for you to come out. So I came out completely nude with a machete, you know?

1:35:57I'm watching Jaws 2 in here! He came out with a jug of gasoline. Did this just happen? Two weeks ago. Yeah. Did you see the kids? He's probably not a big stranger guy anymore now. Yeah. Did you see the kids drive away? I heard him. So they weren't filming you? Well, no, I think they filmed the kick, but they drove away before.

1:36:17Bill Simmons:See, I was shooting at them like Chef Brody, Chief Brody shooting at the blue fish. Give us your after-hours thoughts really quick. It's one of my favorite Scorsese's, one of the best New York movies ever made, and a great portrait of a crazy night out. Did you ever have an after-hours night? Some. Not as magical as that, but I had some late nights, yeah. Cigarette nights? You could say that. Yeah. I wound up encased in plaster What was the weirdest part of New York City You ended up in

1:36:52That's a good question

1:36:53Sean Fennessey:You never had like a woke up in Staten Island No I never had I've fallen asleep and woken up At the end of the F train Where I'm like oh shit I have done that too Where does that end The beach and then it gets really like Now I have to get out and get back on the F train it's going to take all fucking night to get home. Oh, Jesus. It's like Coney Island, right? 3 a.m. in Coney Island. It's like the end of the Warriors. Yeah. Or the beginning, if I had gotten off that train. Yeah. That did happen to me, too. That's funny you say that. Yeah. Fiorentino? One of the goats.

1:37:27Bill Simmons:That's it? Yeah. I mean, you guys did a great job on it. I mean, I was just... You said she was a throw-your-life-away Hall of Famer. She is. She is. In this movie, she's a little intimidating, to be completely honest. She's a little unattainable. Not that she's attainable in, like, Last Seduction, but

1:37:39Sean Fennessey:do you think she'd do good things for your life if were you to spend time with her at any time really in history yeah I think she probably would have gotten me on the right track earlier in my career you know who knows what I would have gotten up to by then would have kept Chris away from Pelicano I'm still getting over her dating the FBI agent in Pelicano it's awesome when stuff like that happens that's one of the craziest things I've ever heard it's that and the girl with the gas tank those are the two those are my two legends I've never seen such magical moves

1:38:06Bill Simmons:thanks to Craig Corbeck Jack Sanders Thanks to Ronick as well. See you next time.

1:38:38Sean Fennessey:Govi.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about We Govi. Why wait? We Govi! For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tremphaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tremphaya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tremphaya, proper training is required. Tremphaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis.

1:39:22Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit trimphiaradio.com.