‘Rocky II’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

26:13Classic line. I like when he invites the tiger. Rocky's just full brain damage for the first hour of this movie. She's doing that. Rocky film in a commercial. Brutal. This hurts. I think CR could have played the director. Yes. Yeah, it would have been a good fun role for me. The true auteur that can't deal with the incompetent talent. It's like Fincher making him do 60 takes. The guy can't read! I can't read! You feel so bad for Rocky. Get out of here, sir! CR, would you have bought Beast Aftershave? Yeah, for sure. If I was a young Philadelphia kid just getting into puberty. What was the Aftershave and...

26:51Aqua Velva? Nah, not that one. The one where they had different athletes and you were supposed to act the audience is going crazy you know what I'm talking about but you were supposed to be upstanding where you wore it and the guys would come out was it Old Spice? yeah Old Spice and they would have guys in the Old Spice commercials and all that stuff that's basically what he was doing Aqua Velva had the athletes with like really really attractive women that was a campaign in the 80's that was very effective that's when Joe Montana met his wife he married the Aqua Velva lady Oh, so he was like, I'm taking her home.

27:25Did he say, I was wondering if you would make me want to get married to me? He took her to Philadelphia Zoo.

27:33Mickey doing the finger test with Rock is a great scene. Awesome scene. On the stairwell. He'd hurt you permanent. Hurt you permanent. Mickey's the angriest goddess ever. Poimant. Poimant. Poimant. Poimant. And then when he wants to work back in the gym, he's like, where's your dignity? it's just it's really good and rocks I think Stallone does I think he has a really couple really really good acting scenes in this I think that's one of them where you just feel like the guy's fucking lost his way and it's not happening yeah I mean it's it's tough to be trapped in a movie with someone making bad mistakes because of like brain damage essentially and also just like a lack of kind of imagination about what they could do with their life and it's a kind of uncomfortable movie because for the second that they're like, you should invest in condominiums or you should sign with this talent agency or you should do this or you should do that.

28:27And watching him, you know, blow through his money and buy a house without going upstairs and all that stuff. It's just kind of like, this is like a pretty brave character to play because you don't get a lot of the hero moments until the last few minutes. And they must have really believed in the climax of the movie because everything is played. It's so understated. yeah like there's never any there's hardly any should I say huge dramatic failures from Rocky Rocky gets fired hey we gotta let you go yeah Rocky takes hey can I work the rest of the day can I work the rest of the day like all of that stuff is just they're almost edging you to the big climax at the end and sorry for that but they almost get you to get you Jesus to get you to the big climax Van likes going to the zoo too I like it yeah it's great Well, the guy who fires him at the meatpacking Frank McRae Frank McRae, that guy 48 hours Yeah, of course That's right, I called him that

29:32He's so good That's my favorite angry sergeant performance In a 70s or 80s police movie More than Inspector Todd? Yeah Yeah, I like him more than Inspector Todd I like how furious he is at Jack Cates Yeah He's really just had it Jack Cates really screwed up Apollo pushes Duke for a rematch and then Duke does the he's all wrong for us baby I saw you beat that man like I've never seen you beat anyone the man kept coming one of the greatest monologues in any sports movie we don't need this kind of man in our life this is what they'll be saying about Drake May in January to Mahomes and Josh Allen we don't need this kind of man in our life the man kept coming Let it go.

30:19This is when he's so good in this scene that Stallone must have filed it away. It's like... Bring this guy back. When I kill Apollo in Rocky IV, there's going to be a really important lock cabin scene with this guy because I know he can do it. Apollo calls out Rocky on TV all the way to Mickey coming over for the... You mean the Musburger interview? Yeah, the Musburger. Astonishing. I never asked you to stop being a woman. Don't ask me to stop being a man And then Mickey shows up I think we ought to knock his block off Pauly, Vansley's favorite character in movie history Really funny in the press conference This really I came around to your way of thinking this viewing What was it about Pauly this time?

31:03The most big time fucking scumbag character I've ever seen I wish he went out like Or a most realistic guy to have in a movie like this I don't I mean he's not like that What a miserable piece of shit though I guess he causes, he is a plague on these people's lives. Yes. Yeah. Like, causes his sister, stresses her out into having huge... Premature labor, yeah. Complications. Where do you have him versus Rod Tidwell's brother? Rod Tidwell's brother was cool. Rod Tidwell's brother was basically fine. He didn't really do anything. He said a couple of things that were off color. But Pauly... I told you he doesn't like going over the middle.

31:37Shut up! And then she attacks. Pauly legitimately caused a premature baby... and then lost all that money. And he's always like, you should knock her teeth out. And then advocates for domestic violence time after time. Terrible. And he breaks the pinball machine beginning of Rocky III. Which one did he get the robot in? That's four. That's four. Yeah, Servo. Yeah. They did. Stallone, I refused to watch it, but he recut Rocky IV and apparently the robot's out. Oh, I love the robot. When did he recut Rocky IV? Oh, it's on Amazon. Who asked for that? It's Stallone. He's got nothing to do all day.

32:11Why take the robot out? The robot's cool. The robot's always bothered him. he took all the footage he shot and recut a different movie. It's on Amazon. He's got nothing to do all the time. Tulsa King. Oh, yeah. I guess he is. Tulsa King. All right. So we go through. Do you want to talk about the coma now? Yeah. Go for it. I mean, isn't this... Go ahead. Go ahead. It's 11 minutes of real time. Like, think how long 11 minutes is. I know how long 11 minutes is. It's the same length as Ali Larder's dinner speech in the first episode of Landman Season 2. I was going to say, that's like a fourth quarter, like 17-play drive.

32:51Yes. Where they're like, they've had the ball 11 minutes. That's how long she's in the coma. Rocky's in church. Rocky's reading to her. Rocky's in the hospital. Pauly's there. It just goes on and on and on and on and on. But it does lead to, she finally wakes up. And she says, yeah, about that fight. I just went, why don't you do one thing for me? Win. and he like lights up and then Mick that's one of my favorite sports movie moments of all time yeah well what are we waiting for and then the music comes in da da da da one arm push up against the sunset and we're just like we are fucking back training montage we catching the chickens we doing the whole now we know what's the fun one arm sit up yeah is he the best jump angrily doing the jump rope finishing and then whipping the jump rope down He is the GOAT of beating up scrap metal.

33:45He is. Right. He is the training montage GOAT. Well, this was... I mean, there's a training montage in one. This is like... Takes it up nine levels. Then there's a training montage in four, two again. That's just breathtaking. Four is 15 minutes of training montages in a row with like no dialogue. This sets the template for what happens in the 80s. So do you guys... Let me ask you, fight expert. do you think how close to the fight is he engaging in this training montage and how long is he training for because I feel like I'm going to say this is like six weeks yeah six weeks out yeah six weeks out yeah okay because they started he had probably two or three weeks of uninspired training well he's sitting around with Adrian for a long time too right so he's probably six weeks out I have a question for the group including Craig so we have the okay motherfucker award for the exact moment when the movie goes up a notch.

34:39I had that. Yeah. Which is named after Al Pacino and Heat. Okay, motherfucker! And they're in the... That we're not watching them. They're watching us. L-A-P-T. Police Department. So we named that. That was a category somebody suggested. We just got made.

35:04I was watching it again the other day. Yeah.

35:10Do we change this award to the Well what are we waiting for Because technically Heat's already up nine notches It's not like Heat needed the bump So it's kind of a misnamed award Even though it was a great moment By okay motherfucker Al Pacino has already done the actual Okay motherfucker moment of Heat Which is by the time I get to Phoenix He'll be rising He'll probably leave a note Right on the door Like that's really When it jumps up a notch You get killed Fuck the doggy Yeah I feel like We're already up a notch That's the give me What you got Yeah Yeah yeah yeah Poor guy So I think I actually think We should change the award To the well What are we waiting for Because after that This movie actually This movie's in a coma Yeah it's in a coma It's dead And when she says win You run through a wall Do you agree with that Craig?

36:04Yeah yeah The movie is literally And figuratively in a coma Yeah And then it gets out The coma is 11 minutes. The fight in the movie is only 8. The coma is longer than the fight. Yeah, that would have been one of my notes if he did a screening for us. It's also permanent darkness in Philadelphia. He's just wandering around South Philly ghost town at night going to church and shit. It's so like, oh my God. But from this point on, the movie makes use of all your emotions. All of them. The movie gives you this emotional euphoria of the run. Well, to be fair, it actually puts you in the headspace of Rocky.

36:36Absolutely. which is like you're basically sitting around for 90 minutes and then for 30 minutes your heart explodes. A couple things I love in the montage. I love when he's carrying the log and he kind of loses it. It's like too heavy for him and he drops it and it seems like he's going to stop and then he's like, no, I got to keep going and he picks it back up and it's just like a good perseverance part. I personally just want a spinoff movie of the guy who runs the scrapyard and Mick and Rock are like, can we come and hit this with hammers? and it's just like yeah man knock yourself out yeah guys hey dude fucking Rocky Balboa's here Rocky Balboa beat the shit out of a Pontiac can we give a shout out to Mickey's assistant the black guy with like the yeah um I don't know he's got he's got ball but he's got the hair on the sides George Jefferson he has no lines at all but he's fucking awesome for like two minutes he's doing the medicine ball thing he's punching him in the stomach yeah is that guy's name Johnny is he because he's in the gym earlier, right?

37:35We never get any scenes with him. There's another guy that I'm going to point out as some of the worst on-screen boxing I've ever seen before in my life. I don't think it's the same guy, but there's another, there's an extra in the background. I'll say this about the training montage. Well, there's two training montages. So we have that first one that ends with the chickens and I got speed! And then we have the running scene. The running scene. I'm going to separate them because that's the next one I have. But, like, there's Rocky's training, but then there's Apollo's training. And it's interesting kind of to go back and forth.

38:08Yeah. Because what the montage really does is underscore that Rocky is training in his neighborhood. He's training with his people. He's getting back to himself, whereas Apollo's training is ego-driven. Yeah. And focused on himself. It's dangerous for people. he's knocking people out without any concern for who they are bring me another one meanwhile Rocky has all of these people helping him who love him and all of this stuff it's clear they're fighting for different things Rocky runs through Philly red jacket kid it's an incredible job by him trying to keep up there's some stuff I guess we can do it now about how long he ran somebody tried to figure this out It was 30 miles, right?

38:57It was 30.2 miles. Yes. If it went from where his South Philly house was all the way to the top of the art museum steps in the same day. 30.2 miles towards road work. He finishes with a dead sprint that is not a short sprint from where he starts at like the Rodan statue or the Rodan statue going up the art museum steps has got to be like 600 yards. I don't know. I'm not positive. but like he's running full out and then hits the steps and takes the steps with all the kids. Kids would be like falling down on the steps, like passed out. 12 dead. Yeah, that would have been the dark version of this movie.

39:39Two kids die on the run. One kid gets hit by a car. The big fight, the second round. Don't let up on this man. This man's dangerous. I'm dangerous. I love that everyone in the audience is getting ready for World War III and Rocky going, I ain't going down anymore. And then they play the da-da-da-da, da-da-da-da, and you're like, okay, here we go. We're running the old movie back. So this was in the research. I don't know if this is true, but I watched it and it might be true when they get ready for World War III and they're like pushing each other and have to be held back by the cornermen. Apparently, Stallone and Weathers were actually mad at each other because some punches landed and that was actual footage of them yelling at each other and having to be separated.

40:24And Stallone liked it, so he kept it in the movie. Smart. I don't know if that's true because this movie's been out for 47 years. And as you know, I feel like some of the half-ass gets made up as the years pass. Yeah, there's not a lot of lore about this movie, so that's really interesting. Rounds three through 14 would be another rewatch. Well, and then the 15th round, the double KO. When did he switch? He switches in the 15th, but if you watch the movie, I feel like he's fighting Southpaw half the time in the movie, so who knows. He also gets punched in his right eye like 400 times. Yeah. Craig, what are your thoughts on the double KO?

41:00Just as a gimmick in a boxing movie. The only thing that bothered me was Rocky doesn't get hit. I mean, he trips. It's a trip. That's the thing. That's the technical error. That's a pick and net. It would be real to slip. He would be there. Only Apollo actually had to get up. Yeah, and it wouldn't be that hard for Rocky to get up after a trip compared to Apollo who was hit. Well, it depends on how exhausted he is. I guess but it's not the same I mean he did get punched over 2500 times flushed in the face couldn't see out of either eye so I don't know maybe he couldn't figure out how to stand up Rocky's speech at the end too aw man my kid being born this is the greatest day of my life notice the wedding wasn't in there so fuck that right yeah I'm asking you you guys are married so like if you were to have like this this like tremendous professional I know the kids have to go in there, right?

41:53The kids have to go in there. But like, do you put like a sports enemy or something like that, like ahead of the marriage? Where does the marriage fit into? As greatest day of my life? As greatest day of your life. Would it be, if Rocky's talking Number one, right guys? Yeah, number one, man. I'm asking. Keep it real, man. It's like top three with birds beating the Patriots in the Super Bowl, yeah. Gotcha. But you're not going to say, because he goes He says very clearly oh, this is besides my kids being born this is the greatest. But was this kid being born one of the greatest days? Because his wife was going to die.

42:30Miscarried and almost bled to death. Right. So in a way that was insulting to her. But he gets an heir. He gets a son. He didn't even see his son the day his son was born. He refused to even see his son until she woke up. Yeah, I'm sure the doctors at Penn Hospital are just like this fucking guy. I mean, an actual monkey. That kid had the most hair I've ever seen on a baby. Oh, Jesus. That was an Italian... What the fuck? I'm just keeping it real. That kid had a lot of hair. Whoa. Be careful there. That's his kid. That's Stallone's kid. That's Stallone's kid. Oh, that's actually Stallone's. Oh, wow.

43:04Really? Oh, yeah. That was his first son. That kid had the most hair I've ever seen on a baby. I've never seen a baby with more hair than that. Ever. It's not a newborn baby, probably, like in the movie. Probably like a baby. The baby was pretty young, though. But it's not a newborn baby. Baby had a lot of hair. What's your most rewatchable scene, Van? It's, so you can't beat the fact that the 15th round of the fight is the most rewatchable scene, but if I was going to give a 1B, it's the conversation between Rocky and Dude. Not Rocky and Dude, between Apollo and Dude. Like that scene is the scene that I wait for whenever I watch this movie.

43:42Me, it's coming out of the coma. Well, what are we waiting for in the training scene? Training months for training. Yeah, that's it. what's the most 1979 thing about this movie I got one for this let's go I got one too 9.5 % mortgage rate I had that too buying a house in Philly for 16k apparently the national average was 11 so I wonder if the bank was giving him a break but this is 9.5 % it's fucking high I have this as what's actually age the worst it's like a young couple being able to afford a house yeah that's what's something that pretty age the worst I have my candidate for this is when Rocky is training for the fight he's sparring with a smaller quicker fighter and that fighter is Roberto Duran yeah a young Roberto Duran a year before he beat Sugar Ray Leonard in Montreal and two years before Sugar Ray Leonard fucking disgraced him in New Orleans made him quit like a fucking loser oh my god so you're not into him you're not into Duran well Sugar Ray's my guy he didn't shake Sugar Ray's hand after the Montreal fight.

44:49He's a fucking asshole. But I will say that this is... Is that no moss? He no mossed him. Duran had spent the entire 70s dominating at 135, one of the best fighters in that way ever. So by that time, he was already a legend. Yeah, Ray did. He didn't fucking quit. And then Hearns knocked him out. You keep pointing at me like you're going to make me quit one day. Duran. I just didn't like him. I didn't like him. I thought he was a bad sport. I thought he was one of the most colorful, interesting boxers that's ever lived. But yeah, in the 80s, it was... The golden boy, Sugar Ray Leonard, against the hated Roberto Duran.

45:22I was so mad when he lost the Duran fight. I saw that in a close circuit. Just furious. Boy, if you guys want to be entertained. Furious. Watch the end of that fight after Duran gets the decision over Leonard. Look how crazy Duran is going. He hated him. He's looking at night. He's going nuts. Leonard goes to touch gloves after the fight and Duran like get the hell out of here I'm pretty bored yeah he's going crazy they hate each other why I don't he's because Sugar Ray was like the American popular guy oh yeah whatever Duran was like you know the hard scrabble get it out the mud and he felt like Sugar Ray was actually not a tough fighter but was a creation of the boxing press and all that yeah he bullied him into actually fighting him versus boxing him in the first fight.

46:17Because he called him a pussy basically for six straight months. Talked about his wife. Talked bad to his wife. He was so mad he comes out and he tries to actually fight him for 15 rounds versus like boxing him. And then the second one he was just he was too quick for him. Duran said he ate like a steak and that's why he quit. Yeah, he fucking quit because Ray kicked his ass. 1979. Jesus. 1979. Stuff. 15 round boxing fights obviously. Yeah, that's a good one. 15 round boxing fights. When did that end? Like 80, 86, 87 right? Early to mid-80s, they went to 12 rounds. And then, actual hate mail. Yeah.

46:51Like, getting hate mail. I had this in What's Age the Best. That, like, actual hate mail and reading hate mail rather than responding to tweets. It's a lot of energy to write out a letter. Dear Apollo. Dear Apollo. Kill yourself. Fuck you. Sincerely, Sincerely, Chris Ryan. Dear Roberto. One more. One more 1979 thing. Fights both on regular TV and in Philly. Nowadays, we only have fights in places where people don't have human rights like Riyadh in Vegas.

47:28Vegas. This is...

47:37Riyadh in Vegas. Okay. We don't get to get this out all the time, but the Steven Seagal shitting on himself a word for most unbelievable anecdote from the actual film shoot. This didn't come out until years later, and I'm not positive I believe it, but Rocky said the switch to fighting right-handed was not in the script. It came about because of an accident on the set when he was weightlifting with bodybuilder Franco Colombo. I remember him, the short guy from Pumping Iron. And he had a complete, almost complete tear of his left pectoral muscle. and they had to reattach it and he couldn't fight with his left hand.

48:17So they had to do the switch thing. I'm not positive I believe this. I watched the movie carefully to see if there was like scenes and stuff where he's fighting right-handed. He uses his left arm the entire movie. And so Stallone claims this is true, but I'm not positive I believe it. If it is true, and assuming it is true, just for the sake of the argument, it's two major plot points that were basically like cover-ups for an injury in Stolen's case and Talia Shire making a different movie. She had like a scheduling conflict so that's why they did the coma. I think the pector… I think it is true because the entire training montage, he's only doing one-handed workouts.

48:55He's doing the one-handed pull-up. Also, he's not using that hand. That's a good point. Yeah, so who knows? Yeah, and what CR said about Adrian was… Talia Shire was filming Old Boyfriends which is John Belushi's in that movie and could only film near the end so that's why she didn't go to the fight. They had to film her scenes later. Like months later they shot her stuff. What stage is the best? You mentioned the zoo thing. The zoo callback from Kazo's driver. Kazo. Rocky not wanting to invest in condominiums because he never used them. Characters going on spending sprees. The movie's always good.

49:38yeah it's a real 70s 80s thing when you know they're fucking up yeah it's like yeah how about get the new trans 37k took you a long way though back then man yeah get a car car house bunch of Rolexes yeah the spectrum being filled with actual extras on like the first fight yes because the first fight we talked about that they had to cut all these corners and it's just dark what else do you have for what's the best I just love Tony's monotone hype up speech to Apollo in the locker room you're the man you're number one the champ the best of all time girls love you men old people love you. And I just imagine like, this is how Ben Johnson talks to Caleb Williams.

50:13Like, you wear nail polish. You make plays off structure, off platform. You got a 51 % caprician rate. Oh, damn. And also, at one point, Rocky is told that he's just going to be pumping gas in Jersey. You know, you can't pump your own gas in Jersey. I used to make fun of Charlamagne because I would be on the phone with him. and then he would stop. He would be like, fill him up, fill it up. And he would be like, fill it up. I did this for a long time. He'd be like, fill it up. Like, fill it up, whatever. And I'd be like, bruh, I mean, you can't pump your own gas. And then he goes, you can't do that in Jersey.

50:52You can't. I was like, what? He was like, in Jersey, you can't pump your own gas. They got to pump it for you. The whole time I was getting my little jokes off, it was like an actual rule. It's true. Connecticut has parts of that too where it's mostly somebody's pumping your gas. And when my mom moved here to LA, She couldn't believe that there weren't gas stations where they had the gas station attendance. It's definitely more of an East Coast thing. I've never been to a full-service gas station that had somebody pump my gas ever in life. If you and Charlemagne did a rewatchables together, would we ever get through the categories?

51:21Probably not. There would be several arguments. I think one of you would leave halfway through. We'd go back and forth a lot. That's the nature of our friendship, though. That'd be an interesting experiment. Any other what's age the best before we move on? just the Rocky lore and universe like when you watch this movie you see all the ways that Creed this was the movie that Creed really took more from like the running montage from kids the training montages you literally see the bones of Creed in Rocky 2 maybe more than you see in any other movie so that's really age the best and once again I'll say man Carl Weathers is a phenomenal athlete he's a phenomenal he has fast hands he moves well.

52:05He's got great feet. Great actor, too. Just like a great actor. Him in this movie, I could have done with I could have been up for a lot more Carl Weathers in this movie. That's my flex. It's the Sasha Jenkins Award for the guy I can't believe is not a bigger star. Carl Weathers is so good. He's so funny. I mean, him going through Happy Gilmore, great comedic timing. He can just do so many things. Mandalorian? Are you an Action Jackson guy? Fuck yeah. Have you seen this? No, I've never seen Action Jackson. bro you're gonna love it first of all it's on the list for the next year can I interest you in peak peak woman peak I can't tell you the great thing about this movie is you can list two people here I would back both choices I'm going Vanity though but Sharon Stone too Sharon Stone as well Sharon Stone and Vanity it's like Vanity and Sharon Stone at the peak there's nothing more beautiful than Vanity we've discussed this before on rewatchables I can't remember what movie but I think it was Kyle probably.

53:04But the fact that they didn't make five Action Jacksons is unbelievable. Everybody loved that movie. But in general, Craig, your point is correct. Blake, why wasn't he in a Tarantino movie or something? I'm telling you, there's one thing. It's a really, really crowded space in the 80s in terms of action stars. It's the heyday of that. Action Jackson has all of the stuff. It has him jumping full over cars. It has bad Craig T. Nelson. I think he got a little pigeonholed by the Apollo character because the Rocky series was so famous. It was hard not to see him as Apollo. I think Danny Glover and Mark had corrected him a little bit.

53:42Because Carl Weathers easily could have been in Lethal Weapon. Isn't Carl Weathers in Predator 1, Danny Glover, Predator 2? But can I tell you why, though? I don't think that Carl Weathers would have been a good choice for Lethal Weapon. He's too physically intimidating. Yeah. Like, in Lethal Weapon, you have to believe, and this is something else that probably held him back, He's with a lot of... No, he's supposed to be too old for this shit the entire time. Yeah, and he looks physically... For that, you needed an everyman that looked like Reyes could kick his ass. Yeah. Yeah, it wouldn't have looked like that.

54:13He almost got pigeonholed because of his physique and athleticism. Right. Do you know he was like an NFL player for like six, seven years? Yeah, yeah. San Diego State, baby. RIP. Rest in peace, man. Yeah. Very sad. Yeah, Carl Weathers, almost a unanimous approval rating, I think, from the general public. One of the all-time underrated actors. Just made every movie better that he was in. In the scenes that he was in, made every movie better. Had to die a lot for these other guys to get their shit off, though. Piss me off. Yeah, like Predator is pretty bad. Predator had to die. Apollo had to die.

54:44Happy Gilmore had to die. Stop killing them. Hey, boy, if I had my koofy right now. Hey, man, stop killing these black men to exalt your heroes. All right, it's over now. He's even funny in Arrested Development. And let people pump their own gas in New Jersey. It's weird he never had like a sitcom. like a you know how everybody had a sitcom he was in Arrested Development briefly as a character oh that's right but like the late 80s where he's just like he does a career swerve all of a sudden he's got like a little family he's like working in a law office or something when Happy Gilmore came along I was so excited to see him yeah and he was hysterical he is so good in it yeah Big Kuna Burger where best use of food and drink the meat's back oh jeez sure what else would you have the meat Pauly Snow Cone Oh Okay I got the Snow cone in the fall It's a power move The spit bucket Is that a food or a drink?

55:37It's a drink Great shot Gordor Where about cinematic shot? The little kids with Rocky Or would you go something else? I actually had the The first fight footage Being projected Against Mickey As he's talking to him About how he's gonna How they're gonna fight And it's also Mickey early ball knower Early tape head You know Going through the footage Trying to find the margins He's like Gorlovsky He's like Shanahan. Why do you have to protect the eye if you already can't see out of it? Yeah. I think he can see. I think that if he gets hit again, he's going to go blind. He detaches right now or something like that.

56:10But he gets hit in that eye like 400 times in the fight. It's not even, they just drop that. I love how throughout the whole movie, they're talking as if Rocky's a human being. He's not. You can't. It's like Michael Myers. Can't do anything to kill him. Yeah. His eyesight gets better during the four Rockies. Yes. Once they keep cutting it. Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness is where Best Needle Drop the opening credits the ambulance ride yeah of course Chess Rockwell Not Gonna Fly Now over the training montage oh that's good oh that's probably yeah you're probably right with Frank Stallone on Mox right that's probably it doo-wop band shout out to them real quick yeah the doo-wop guys yeah Chess Rockwell Brock Lander's the word best character name still Apollo Creed I have Father Carmine though and it's pretty good yeah um and then I got to throw this in today.

56:58The Nico Harrison Award for worst decision. Lakers third in the West. Apollo demanding the rocket rematch, but then fighting him in the spectrum. Well, he was saying anytime, anywhere. He said, I'm going to beat this man in front of his people in his town. Fight him in Vegas. You don't need the Philly crowd. Come on, Apollo. You're supposed to be smart. Go to Vegas or Riyadh. One of those two. I think he's doing it also in Philly so that he can't be accused of there being any fixing, throwing going on. All right, we're going to take a break. Come back with CR's flex. All right, CR, what do you got?

57:35Well, I did actually have the OK Motherfucker Award for Adrian saying win. But I will, off the top of my head, do a reverse Mallory Rubin of did this movie need a better sex scene? It's more of a question. Do you think that's the one and only time Adrian and Rock have sex? Is on their marriage night. Now, remember. Very chaste. No, we did this in the first movie, right? Oh, did we? Remember in the first movie, she became a little muskrat? Oh, that's right. A little minx? That's right. She was trying to get to him. He brought her out of her shell. I thought she was a late bloomer. That was my take.

58:10Oh, my God. Too many trips to the zoo for her. Empty house, no furniture. Yeah. Every room, christened in it. Late bloomer. Yeah, but so, yeah. You know who sniffed that out? Clever Lang. Oh, that's right. You can see that twinkle in her eye. Clever Lang looked there. I was like, she needs a little bit something more. Adrienne has like a personality transplant in three and four, right? She's like a different woman. Three, she's... That's her best performance in a movie. And then four, she still does the thing that she does where she shakes her head and talks and looks at the ground and says the line.

58:41And I'm like, why don't you just communicate so this guy doesn't go out and get killed? And then five, she's dead? No, five, she's alive. Five, she's alive. Rocky Balboa, she's dead. Rocky Balboa, she's gone, yeah. Vin's the only one who likes five. The Butch's girlfriend... Rocky five is good, man. Butch's girlfriend award for weak link of the film. I went with one-eyed, slightly brain-damaged Rocky beating a prepared, motivated, angry Creed in the rematch. It was my pick. If he can't see out of his right eye, which is the jab, you just, Creed, he had to have been up by 100 points heading into round 15.

59:15He was, they said it. He was. And Duke's like, you gotta, all you have to do is just not get... Yeah, it's a weak link. Apollo did everything that you could do to win a fight. To beat Michael Myers. Yeah, but what'd you have for the week, Link? Well, two things. One, coma. And two, obviously. Gazzo being in the movie and not having any impact on the plot. Shows up like three times. Asks about the condos. Comes to the gym. Never really... If he had not been in this film, it wouldn't have made a difference. And he's been also good. I just wish there had been some like mafia like we're trying to get you to throw the fight or something going on.

59:56Oh, that would have been better than the coma. But it is a cool ass line where he goes, hey, remember that guy? Yeah. And then he walks out. Yeah. But the movie needed to your point. I feel like he's in the movie but and like they just either cut his plot or there was like a Pauly plot that they didn't use. There's something where he's in the film but there's no story with him. Yeah. Maybe one more dimension for the movie. You know what he gets though? A coveted spot in any big sports movie is the cutaway shot to the guy in the crowd. Go get him, Rock! Yeah! Yeah! The hug shot. Vision Quest was the best one for this because there's four different people in the audience that they're just cutting to throughout it.

1:00:33Did you have a weak link, man? No, every... No, no, I mean, Adrian. That's it. What's age the worst? Pauly, just horrible, as always. We already talked about him. Ali said on Rocky's weightlifting, it's the worst thing a boxer can do. It tightens the muscles. A fighter never lifts weights, but it looks good in the movie. A fighter never lifts weights? I'm not on that level. I mean, they lift weights, but I just go in there, hit the bags, and then get in the ring and get my head beat in. Adrian not going to the fight.

1:01:36So they have the kid ball. Kids don't go outside to do anything besides protest right now. It's true.

1:01:47I mean, the last time I saw a group of kids outside and there was no cause, it's been a while.

1:01:58The character of Pauly aged terribly. The scene where Rocky is hitting a heavy bag and Rocky's hitting a heavy bag, right? And Adrian comes down and says that she's going to go back to work. Yeah. Basically, she has to go back to work. Part-time at a pet store. Part-time at the pet store because Rocky's not making any money. Then Rocky says, hey, go get dinner started. So, he has no... 70s were different, man. Definitely. He has no income. She comes down, I got to go back working part-time at the pet store. He says, hey... Doesn't he also save, but he's sort of like, I want to support you He doesn't want her to go back But I just don't know Of the modern woman Where she decides I have to go back Into work To support the family And then you can say How much is she making At that pet store anyway I'm not sure man Can they make that mortgage?

1:02:52$1 ,500 for the property taxes? Because that scene in 2025 Would be different Way different Nine and a half percent And the last one I gotta say this At 5426 in this movie Over Mickey's left shoulder I don't know how you guys gonna put it. There is some terrible boxing by one of the extras. It was just, I mean, it looks crazy. And the only thing that's worse than the boxing by this extra is the hairline. And I have to show you this. This is one of the worst hairlines I've ever seen in anything that's ever existed. Look at this. Look at that guy.

1:03:33Look at his hairline. look at that whoa it's like a peninsula yeah it's got an entire peninsula but when you see it when you look at the actual the actual time code what the fuck is he doing back there and then I was completely distracted I have by what's age the worst my biggest one is that I think Rocky I think Stallone dials the brain damage up a little too high in this one so I had my scale of brain damage for each movie I actually have what age the worst too many in this too many characters in this movie on the Balboa side of things have little to no brain activity. It's just too many people just not being able to communicate.

1:04:13It's not exactly Michael Clayton. Brain damage from 1 to 10. Rocky 1, I think he's a 4. Rocky 2, he's like an 8.5. Rocky 3, he's back down to a 2. Yeah, he's recovered. Rocky 4, he's a 1. He could be running a record company. I'm interested now. Rocky V, he's a full 10. He's a 1 ,000. He's like a 15 out of 10. What happens to Rocky V? I don't understand why he made Rocky V. Drago scrambled his egg. It's post-Drago. Drago is the now. He's a 1 ,000. And you like this movie. Love it. Don't like love. Creed, I think he's about a 5.5, 6. Oh, he's back. No, he's fine in Creed. He's running a small business.

1:04:55So you have him lower? Yeah, I have him at like a 4 in Creed. But literally in... Creedy's running a restaurant. You know how hard that is? Watch The Bear. It's shows. But literally in 5, Tommy will ask him a question about boxing. Like, Rock, what should I do? Should I drop my left hand? Rock will go, oh, yogurt. And then the scene will end. Like, he's like, he's like, totally, totally out of here. Stallone has disowned Rocky 5. Has he? I like it. Vance is the only person that owns it. Who directed 5? I can't remember. I think Stallone. But Tommy Gunn is in that one. Oh, John Avilson. Oh, he came back for five?

1:05:32Rocky losing his money. Just the whole thing with his son. Oh, five is when Pauly loses all his money? Pauly loses all his money. His son has to go back in Philly, but evil Kevin Connolly is in that movie, Kevin Connolly. Yeah. And his son has to learn how to bow up. And the whole thing. Don King character. I like it. It's crazy, but I like it. The Don King character is probably the funniest part of that movie. George Washington Duke. Venta Miglia is in Balboa. Yeah. And then he's in Creed II. he comes back in Creed 2 so John Avildsen just as a quick aside does Rocky and then is doing Saturday Night Fever and gets pulled off it he gets fired and then by the time we get to then he does Karate Kid 2 as a comeback but he does back to back Karate Kid 3 Rocky 5 back to back what a run Karate Kid 3 the funniest sports movie of all time for all the wrong reasons.

1:06:31The bad boy of karate, Mike Barnes. Yeah, that's right. Really such an awful movie. Okay. The Ruffalo, Hannah, Ruben and Partridge overacting word for the overacting, the commercial director? Burgess. Burgess. Make the case. Burgess, yeah. Wow. What do you mean make the case? Watch the movie. What do you mean? Every fucking scene, Mickey is going like, rock, rock. You know, like it's just, he's completely over the top. Do we need to add Mickey to your characters? Because we need to refresh to 2026. Mickey from Rocky would be good commenting on some of these movies. I agree. I think Mickey is killing me today.

1:07:09I think you're... But that's kind of... Isn't that Mickey's whole deal though? Yeah. But like he's really going for the supporting actor. I'll be commenting on it. He said the trainer would never be that on it yelling at a boxer the whole time. What do you have for a flex category, Van? Top five. I made up my own. Top five unrealistic sports movie outcomes. Okay. So number five is Teen Wolf. If you guys haven't seen the end of the Teen Wolf, Scott as the wolf has gotten the team to the championship game. The team that features... Are you really telling us the ending of Teen Wolf? Just making sure the audience knows.

1:07:43Okay. Yeah. All right. Scott decides in the last scene not to wolf up. Yeah. Yeah. And they go out there and they win. Never fucking happening. I don't know if you guys have seen their power forward, but if you BMI of like 45, they're just not going to go out there and get a victory. It's not happening. Number 23 puts up like a triple-double though. And Teen Wolf? Yeah. What's number two? Number four is the Karate Kid Part 2. Yeah, he's not beating that guy. He's not going to Japan. Okay, him winning the All-Valley Tournament against Johnny is one thing. He goes to Japan and beats up the head of a karate gang.

1:08:17Sato's karate gang henchman, dude. He's not winning that. He's not winning that with them stupid-ass drums. He's not doing that. That's not happening. Daniel-san, this time not for points. for life. For life. For life. It's not happening, right? But go for it, man. It's a quote. It's a new day. So we should add Pat Marina to the cast of characters. Have we done Kid 2 yet? I haven't. It's terrible. Yeah. I don't think we've done it. Although I will say that one thing is... Swank is three? Swank is... No, Swank is the next one. The next one. Okay. One thing I do like about these two movies have in common is both Karate Kid Part 2 and Rocky begin with the recap of the last movie.

1:08:54Number three, Necessary Roughness. Texas State beats the number one team in the country with a 34-year-old quarterback named Paul Blake who hasn't played football in a long time. Sure. Now, at that time, we hadn't seen that, but you can see a 34-year-old quarterback playing in college football all the time now. Number two, the Little Giants beating the Cowboys. I just don't believe in it. Yeah. I think Spike is going crazy. I don't believe in Icebox. I don't believe in anything that the Little Giants had going on. When you look at Spike, he's ready for war. He's going to go out there and leave some corpses out there.

1:09:27That's number two. And Rocky's number one? Rocky's number one. Rocky winning the rebound. Surprisingly, you didn't go after Hoosiers a little bit. Nah, because Hoosiers is, I can see it happening in Hoosiers. Chip would have had. If Hoosiers would have played the team from across town. Chip would have had. If Hoosiers would have played, if they'd have played like, when Hoosiers is Indiana, right? Yeah. If they'd have played like W.E.B. DeWaugh High School in South Chicago, than they probably would. But they playing this. That's, you know. So one-eyed Rocky beating a motivated... Not happening.

1:09:59They could fight 10 times. It's not happening. And it really hasn't happened because people like to go say that Rocky is like Rocky Marciano. Rocky Marciano was a dog. Yeah, he beat everybody. He was a dog. Tough, powerful, all of that. Can we add an honorable mention to your list, Van, for challengers, which ends in two professional tennis players hugging at the net? Yeah. after doing volleying and back and forth from two feet away most intense matchup ever they ended up hugging can't stand that movie I would add to your list which I enjoyed I like Challengers Challengers is bad I like them too until that that movie is bad I'm trying to think there's one so Bad News Bears breaking training okay they had to cheat with the lineup to win though so maybe technically you know but I think victory is the one the was still in the soccer movie.

1:10:53Oh, beating the Nazis? Yeah. Beating the Nazi team that's been practicing and it's like they have this ragtag group of POWs. Michael Caine is like a pop belly and it's fixed. The refs are in the bag. There's no way they tie that game. I don't think. I think they lose like five to one or something like that. Does CR think Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford had a stake award? This one leapt off the screen this time and it basically is following up something Van mentioned in our opening segment. But I think inside of Stallone, there are these two characters. There's his physical form. And he's like, I got to be an action movie star.

1:11:26I got to take juice. I got to be built up. And I am Rocky, right? I am synonymous with Rocky. And then there's the other person, which is the more sensitive storyteller, filmmaker, creative side. And if he had listened to that side, this movie would have been called Creed. And it would have been the Godfather 2 of sports movies. Wow. And he would have made a movie about Creed dealing with the embarrassment and humiliation and shame of losing to this Palooka. That's good. And what's he going to do when he's getting the mail and his wife won't have sex with him? And Duke's like, we got to do this or whatever.

1:12:01And it would have been awesome. It's in this movie. You see the four scenes with Carl Weathers. We're like, why can't we get 10 more of these scenes? It is the better perspective. I couldn't agree more. And if we had done that, and then we have one is Rocky, two is Creed and three is three and it's just about Clubber Lang and it goes or you know you even jump to four basically and like have these guys together but I thought it was just like so obvious it's a great idea that never would have happened because everybody just wanted to see Rocky win the title I know but I'm saying that's why I made $200.1 million when we saw Godfather 2 you probably weren't like what I want to see is young Vito Corleone no you're right yeah from a movie standpoint you're 100 % right it's a more interesting movie I just don't think that's why it's a great hot take I don't know if they ever would have made it mine is that Rocky and Apollo's lives would have been much better if they swapped lives.

1:12:52That's true. So, Apollo needed some vanilla serenity, right? He needed a little muskrat, a little minx cat to jump on him and calm him down. That's what he needed. Somebody to like, be cool, didn't have to go back. And Rocky needed an alpha. a sister. You know how she looks at him? Apollo's up there, he's reading the hate mail. She's like, stop reading it. Right? But Apollo, he can't appreciate that. Rocky was okay, Cynthia. Like, he would have been all right with it. If they were to swap wives. Apollo's wife wouldn't let him work in the gym. You didn't carry a bucket for these guys? No, you're a hero.

1:13:28Look at these guys over there. Those guys talking to you? She would have been the one to be like, hey, talk to my man like that. You talking to Rocky Balboa, you palooka. So, things would have been better for them. I thought that in the movie. I'm like, Rocky needs some, you know what I'm saying? Rocky 3 wife squat. Wife squat. Probably already happened Y 'all know how I feel It's great And it ties into my hottest take Okay I'm so glad you brought up Apollo's wife Apollo's wife One of the best looking Black women in the 1970s Talk about it Here's my list Oh shit Wait a second I I knew you would love this More than anybody I know this is it This is the content you want Yeah Let's go Best looking black women Of the 1970s My list How many How many of you How many of you Sisters are on the list Seven.

1:14:16Seven sisters. How big was the long list? Like how big was the pool for you? No, this was the seven. Okay. I don't think the list, I didn't go in with a number. Okay. I went with how I felt as a kid and how I feel now and tried to combine those two worlds. Let's hear it. Diana Ross. Okay. Is this your number one? Seven or one? No, no, no. I'm not ranking. Oh, you're not ranking. That's really sweet. Yeah. Diana Ross. Studio 54, Diana Ross. I like that late 70s Diane Ross beautiful Ali's third wife Veronica Porsche gorgeous was fucking outrageous gorgeous the best looking athlete wife of all time like next level beautiful so beautiful that she goes to the hotter than Brittany Holmes he meets her shut the fuck up you big head

1:15:10he meets her Ali meets her and immediately gets divorced as he's trying to fight George Foreman. Yeah, not the best thing, but yeah. He's like a man. She's gorgeous, yeah. Lola Felana. Classic. Always liked when she showed up on the love boat and I always knew Isaac was getting in in that episode. I was like, oh, this is going to be good for Isaac. Thelma from Good Times. I've talked about her many times. Staple. One of the career highlights was remember getting a picture with her. That's four so far? That's four. Okay. Rem and I got a picture with her. You're making me a little nervous. Go ahead.

1:15:462014. Why am I making you nervous? Because I'm worried about somebody you're leaving out. I'm thinking about it too. Pam Greer. Thank you. Of course Pam Greer is going to be on there. It could have to be in there. I can't trust you. Apollo's wife, Sylvia. I think her name's Sylvia Miles. Just an absolute smoke show. Sylvia Mules. And then number one, Jane Kennedy. Jane Kennedy. Jane Kennedy, in the running for best looking anything of all time. But she was... You almost fucked up. No, I'm saying any era. Like, she could move into advance from the 70s into the all-time bracket. The type of lady that your father has...

1:16:28I want to make sure you know about Jane Kennedy. I want to make sure you're up on her. Can I interest you in two people from the 70s? Just two people. We're all winners on this list. We're all winners. Yeah. Carol Speed. Which one was that? Carol Speed She's in I think she's in the MAC Love her She's in the MAC Or she's in Superfly Not familiar with Carol's work Carol Speed Marilyn McCoo Thought about her She didn't quite get there for me Cause she The 80's came along And like she Willis would be things She solid golded it a little bit Solid gold But in solid gold That's my era of Marilyn McCoo Then I go back And I look at Marilyn McCoo When she was in the fifth dimension Oh that's cool Marilyn McCoo in the fifth dimension Like Marilyn McCoo in the fifth dimension Gorgeous beautiful beautiful beautiful Jane Kennedy levitated I had to do the rankings Veronica is probably the one beat of Jane Kennedy yeah Jane Kennedy is otherworldly next level gorgeous really important sports do you know who Jane Kennedy is Craig so NFL the first ever NFL pregame show on CBS Brent Musburger, Irv Cross and Jane Kennedy and I think Jane Kennedy followed Phyllis George I'm not yeah Phyllis George initially it's the three of them Phyllis George marries John Y.

1:17:47Brown the Kentucky Fried Chicken guy who buys the Celtics they replace him with Jane Kennedy and she's just everybody's in love with her from the moment she shows up and I'm not then she married Leon Isaac Kennedy the star of Penitentiary Penitentiary 2 some things happened some things happened yeah we all talk about that casting what ifs couldn't really find any except for Chuck Wepner was offered the part of a trainer upon the audition. Like, is he supposed to be new Mickey? Because the one fell back because he was the real life Rocky. Oh, yeah. He's... The movie's based on him. Yeah. And then you want to put him in...

1:18:19But were they going to make him like Mickey's assistant or something? Yeah. Okay. I think so. They deleted that character from the script. Best That Guy Award. So, Joe Spinel... It's Frank McCray, man. It's Frank McCray, yeah. The foreman. I think he's a that guy. Yes. To 99 % of the people listening to this podcast, he is a that guy. Okay, fine. Dion Waiter's a word. This is... I got one. Musburger. Musburger. It's Brit. Musburger blacks out. Wrote his own dialogue. Musburger went nuts. It's like, you're like, this is real. This is happening. He's like, many reporters like this one standing next to you, Apollo would say, and he's just like, you're entitled to your opinion.

1:19:04I don't know why I'm doing Pacino but it's an incredible scene it is well we have Frank Stallone get some duop with him we get Rocky's commercial agent as possible Dion Waiters sure slinking out as the beast aftershave as it goes well Stu Nahan gotta mention him and then I think Duke is eligible in this fuck no he's only in like three scenes yeah but he's in four movies yeah no way for Dion Waiters he can't well then if that's the case he's the Dion Waiters of well no because he's way he's really good in this if I was going to give it to anybody other than Musburger but Musburger is just like it makes this feel like more of a sporting event that the entire country cares about I'm trying to think of who would be now that would be the equivalent of Musburger being in this Pat McAfee Pat McAfee Craig made a fucking face I hate him Chad he knows you guys are beefing I guess it would be McAfee has like McAfee having You don't think it would be like Joe Buck?

1:20:07I was going to say Buck and Aikman. Oh, it could be Buck. It's Buck and Aikman. Oh, yeah. But who's the guy who crosses Because you're covering like a serious sporting event. Well, if it's fights who does fight? I mean, it would be Ariel Helwani or Kellerman or No, but Brent was like legit on a show that like 20 million people watch before these NFL games. Yeah, I think it's Aikman and Buck. He'd have to be the most famous announcer now. I think it's Buck. Probably. I guess it would be bought. Recasting couch director is Citi. I would recast the commercial director with CR. And I would just use AI to make it work and just have CR playing a character.

1:20:45Backup choice Al Pacino. Just two minutes of Pacino. You did your flex category, right? My other mini hot take is that Stallone is clearly a better movie runner than Tom Cruise. Undoubtedly. He just is. Yeah, it looks like he has wheels. it just looks more athletic it looks more natural Cruise is way too robotic and stiff with it this feels you can like feel how difficult this is with Stallone he's the best movie runner who do you think who is your best movie runner ever? I did not come prepared for this because we know Seagal is the worst Seagal I'd like to go back and watch the Crud Up and Leto tape of the two Prefontaine movies just to see it I haven't seen that in a while I don't know I gotta say Cruise is pretty good in the firm it's really stiff he's running away from those guys very stiff he some of his Mission Impossible running scenes are just fantastic but there's also so much majesty in the way that it's shot and they're shooting them all that stuff Eddie Murphy 48 hours the subway scene he's running pretty well Rocky's sprint feels more like a sprint it feels like he's truly like at 100 out of 100 and the Cruise ones the Cruise's sprint still feels a little bit reserved like he kind of knows what he's doing when Rocky sprints in this movie you're like this guy is running as fast as he's running the only problem is like Rocky 3, you know, Weathers throws that sprint.

1:22:04It's pretty clear. He eases up on the beach big time. Do you know who is an underrated movie runner? Who? Michael J. Fox. Oh. Oh, yeah. Back to the Future. Back to the Future. Scrappy runner, getting up there. Marty's always running, trying to get some. Michael J. Fox, underrated runner. I think I was impressed with what little I saw of Austin Butler running and caught stealing. Just keep your eye on him. As one for the future. a Donruss Rader rookie for me. Put him over here just in case. All right, we'll take one more break then we'll do Half-Ass. All right, Half-Assed Earned Research film is dedicated to Jane Oliver.

1:22:42That was Stallone's first agent. She died. Leroy Neiman's in this. He's drawing a picture of Apollo while he's training. The book that Rocky reads to Adrian for multiple excruciating scenes is the deputy sheriff of Comanche County by Edgar Rice Burroughs, published in the 1940s. You're a big fan. You're a big Burroughs guy. I know. Can we talk about the fact that in this movie, Rocky basically learns to read? He actually seems pretty adept at reading. I mean, he's doing Zane Grey or Louis L 'Amour books later in the movie. I know, but is he... So could Rocky not read, or was he just brain damaged?

1:23:22Well, it seems to me that a secondary story in this movie is Rocky learning to read. Yeah. which should be kind of a big deal but he's not sounding out words he's reading Edgar Rice Burroughs it's not like you're like a picture book so I know but why did why do we come back to him reading I think it's Stallone being like just so you know I got some shit to me okay gotcha I'm gonna crank some Burroughs in this scene estimated 800 school children used as extras for the Rocky running scene Adrian's hospital room number was 669 which is considered an angel number did you guys know this I didn't Yeah.

1:23:58669, is that what it is? Yeah. There's a novel published by Ballantyne in 1979 for Rocky II, and Stallone is credited as the author. And it's a first-person narrative. So if you've got it, please reach out. I want to know about this. It's a first-person narrative told by Rocky? Except it's, like, written in Rocky's brain pattern, so it's apparently, like... It sounds awful. It's, like, settle down, Faulkner. All right? Flowers for Algernon type shit. Yeah, but when they write about... when he writes about Apollo, it's in the third person and is normally written. And then, Burt Young lost a lot of weight between the first and second film.

1:24:36Yeah. And in a comment, they put it in the movie. So, when they're seen right after the fight, when they're in the hospital, they had to like pad him to make him seem fatter. Well, one of the guys, somebody says, hey, you lost a lot of weight. Like, they addressed it in the movie. So, what's Paulie's arc here? He, at the end of this, at the end of one, I don't know if arc's the word we can use. He, after one after the fight he's basically like Rocky get me your job with Godso then two scenes later is like a made man and is like lording over the docks right? yeah he's basically who's the guy in Wire season 2?

1:25:11Ziggy? Frank Sabaka yeah Frank Sabaka he's basically Sabaka and then but is but is also like Rocky you need to thank me for getting you a job at the meat packing plant right? what an asshole I hate this guy big By the fourth movie, he's just living in the guest room playing with a robot. And then getting that cut out. And is so angry after he's ruined their lives. I know. It's so angry. What about me? What about... How come no woman for... Is it possible Pauly was either asexual or gay? Could be. This might be why he was so mad at... I haven't seen the recut version of Rocky IV, so I don't know.

1:25:48This might be so... Hey, you know what just dawned on me? Gay Pauly? Pauly's in love with Rocky. Oh, this just dawned on me. The reason why he treats Adrian like shit this entire time is because he's in the room. He's mad at Rocky. Paulie this entire time was trying to get some of that Italian sausage. He's jealous. Or the alcoholism made him incompetent sexually. Either way. Couldn't get one up. They didn't have Viagra back then. Apex Mountain. Stallone, no. Nah. Carl Weathers no but maybe Rocky 3 Rocky 4 definitely definitely definitely the spectrum because we are coming off the back of Broad Street Broad Street Bullies yeah Doc this the original Doc the only Doc you also have some good wrestling back then too WWF big hot spot big matches there in the spectrum yeah that's good Spectrum I like that Philadelphia Zoo definitely right That's the most famous thing that's happened in Philadelphia Zoo.

1:26:56I mean, there's some tigers and stuff there. Talia Shire, I'm going to say no. Godfather. Somewhere Godfather 2 slash Rocky. Maybe even 3. She's good in 3. She's like one of the only redeeming. She's one of the only. She's a redeeming quality of 3. Burt Young? I can't give him any credit for anything here. I'm sorry. I'm going to go mid-80s for Burt when he's in Miami Vice, Rocky 4, and back to school with Rodney Dangerfield. That's a redeeming role for him. Yeah. Like, what's the guy's name in Back to School Again? The guy who does Triple Ending? What's the character? I can't believe I can't draw this.

1:27:32Anyway, but he's his muscle. Did you say Apex Mountain for... Thornton Mellon. Thornton Mellon, yeah. Did you say Apex Mountain for Storm? No, it's not. I don't know. It's not. It's got to... You got to go into the... He forces his way into the director's show. He's got Rambo 2 and Rocky IV. I think First Blood Part 2 is... He's got like two of the top three movies in 1985. I just think by the letter of the law of what Apex Mountain is, which is obviously like a very clear and understandable concept, he forces his way into the director's chair for this sequel, gets points on it, makes$200 million with this movie, creates an iconic character, and can pretty much cause him shock from here.

1:28:14But if he's at the peak of his powers, it's mid-80s Stallone, right? He can do whatever he wants. Mid-80s Stallone, he could have been like, I had this idea. I think by mid-80s, he's trapped in his own body. and he has to just make action movies. Like, you know, it's not until Copland that he truly gets out of that. You lost the vote two to one. Burt Young. Brent Musburger, yes. 1979 Brent. You're looking live. I mean, for me, I'm listening to Brent Musburger every Saturday for like, it's like, you know, so I would not be looking at this as Brent Musburger's Apex. Does Brent have like a fake, what's the most famous Brent college football call?

1:28:48Oh, you know what? Wait, was it not Brent Musburger when... Iron Bowl? No What's his name When he called the girl Yeah AJ McCarron's girlfriend Yeah How can I not remember her name Kate Kathy This is a huge moment And he's That's kind of Apex Brent Musburger Right when he was being How about Cunder the Tiger That's the tiger Rocky talked to Yeah Apparently a huge attraction In the Philadelphia Zoo I think Sierra's embarrassed By the Philadelphia Zoo No I think it's great Okay Coma scenes that go on too long Have we ever topped this For Rocky 2 11 minutes Man Maybe Million Dollar Baby Still Magnolias Million Dollar Baby That's just the last 10 minutes right That movie Should be shot In the sun Hate that movie We made Jomie had never seen it Oh god Did he know anything about it Didn't know anything about it Yeah that's like Actually cruel That's it I'm reporting that to HR Jomie didn't know Anything about it Jomie had never seen it anything about it.

1:29:52We talked about it. I'm like, hey, Chuck. I was like, Jomie, go home and watch Million Dollar Baby and then report back to us. And he texted me that night, all caps, what the fuck? You just can't see it coming. I know. The movie just totally turns. Somehow that movie won the Oscar. That happens like, what? Halfway through the movie? Not halfway. You've seen it, right? Yeah. What are you talking about? When she dies? No, when she breaks her neck. Oh, yeah. Was it half? I can't remember. it's the ending it's the last 15 minutes of the movie it's like three quarter of the way through or something like that I can't remember boxing movies now 1979 Pontiac Firebird Trans Ams yes that was the apex Cruz or Hanks for this movie

1:30:38who would have been a better Rocky almost like it's too bad that Cruz never did a boxing movie because you know far and away Ben considers it a boxing movie that's true Bare knuckle boxing right there. I'm going to say Hanks. No. Hanks is Rocky. It has to be Cruz. It has to be Cruz. Hanks can't do this. Cruz fighting for the welterweight title. Yeah. Scorsese or Spielberg? I think Marty. Yeah. It's Marty, but I would like to see Spielberg's version. This big, expansive, like, morality tale that he would make this into. But it's definitely Scorsese. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played?

1:31:19Probably Mickey. Pauly. Oh, Pauly would have been good. Yeah. Or a good commercial director. What do you have for picking Nets here? We've gone over the ones that I had. A lot of these. All right, I have some left. After the first fight, Rocky's definitely getting more than one commercial. I think Sports Illustrated's following him for Giant Feature. And... Gary Smith. I think people are just throwing money at Rocky. This has always been an issue with this franchise. So... He's way more successful and popular after the first fight. So even when he loses his money, we've talked about this before in five, and then he has to move back to the ghetto in Philly, right?

1:31:59It just doesn't make any sense. He is the greatest heavyweight of his generation. He just beat. But I thought the whole thing with Rocky is that Mick set up 10 easy fights for him so that he wouldn't get hurt again. So is he really the greatest heavyweight, or is he just getting... He's beating Clubber Lang. He legitimately is a legend. Yeah, most popular. He's beaten Clubber Lang, and also he has beaten the Soviets on the worldwide stage. The Soviets? He has. He's beaten the Soviets on the worldwide stage. He's got the Soviets to root for him. Yeah, he's signing autographs. He's doing the whole thing.

1:32:34Rocky's getting put. Rocky is not going to. This fighter exists. This guy that continues to come back. Mike Tyson, based upon the strength of his personal brand, this fighter exists. He's not going broke. They make it seem like the fight's a year after the last fight. So you're going early 77 Philly, right? He's going to Sixers games that year. He's at the finals. He's going to hockey. He's going to flyers. He's like going around. He's getting invited to stuff. He probably, somebody owns like some cheese steak store or something that they, he probably has his name on a pizza place. Come to Rocky's.

1:33:11He's getting all these investments. I think the problem was him getting hoodwinked and not being able to deliver. I mean, he could have been in those commercials. he fucked up I think Paul is running some sort of he becomes the Maverick Carter for Rocky he's like getting him he does his version of Spring Hill he's got a content company yeah all kinds of things are happening for him he would have a drive time radio show Rocky Balboa boxing show he's not doing one commercial and then working as the bucket guy in the gym it's not happening it's not happening he's doing cameos in movies I had this for possibly unanswerable questions but was the solution here for Rocky just to invest in condominiums would that have been like That would have been the time to do it.

1:33:48Yeah. Mid-70s. Apollo didn't fight for six months after the Rocky fight. How often do you guys box? I don't really follow boxing. Back then, they're fighting every two, three months. Well, not if you're the champ, right? If you're the champ, you fight in a couple times. Ali fought like six times a year. Not when he was in his... Not when he was really Muhammad Ali. 75 to 78, he fought like 19 times. Huh. Interesting. Well, like... He's fighting Shavers. He'd fight Norton again. He'd fight Dwayne Bobak. Like, he just kind of kept going. But if you know your guy and you want the rematch... Didn't Tyson used to fight like twice a year?

1:34:20Yeah, guys fight a lot back then. On the way up. Like, when you get to the point, twice a year is one thing, but no heavyweight of that ilk is fighting six times. It's also works because Apollo's obsessed with Rocky. Yeah. Because they're like, we can get you this guy, we can get you that guy. And he's like, I want Rocky. Rocky chasing a chicken, the worst training idea ever in a sports movie. Like, what the fuck? George Jones does that. Really? in homage to Rocky or just because it's good for you I think both it feels like that's how COVID could have started like a boxer chasing a chicken that was ground zero that's good an alternative to lab leak what was going on in Philly that hundreds of kids were just hanging out outside during the middle of the day is that what Philly was like back then we're a great sports town what were they protesting

1:35:10it was probably like a trash strike or something Ali's nitpick was that they would have stopped the fight once his eyes closed. And then the double knockdown we covered, Rocky falling would have been ruled a slip. And in real life, if both fighters get up, the fight just keeps going. If you both get up before the count of 10, we're going. Apollo stayed down. It's not about beating a guy to getting up. Yeah, it's not beating a guy. Isn't that, just as an aside, isn't that one of the most dramatic ways, maybe the most dramatic way to end a boxing? Don't they have to get up in time before the last belt?

1:35:44To beat the count. Yeah. But it's not, I got up before you, so I won. Right. Like, one thing that boxing movies have a problem with a lot of times is how dramatic the ending of the fight is. Some guy gets knocked out. How dramatic can you make a knockout? If he goes to the decision, how dramatic is it? But this is legitimately probably, like, the most dramatic way. Like, double knockout, who's going to get up first? I have a small nitpick on Apollo's boxing. I've never seen anybody just take body shots like that. Well, don't neither of them defend very well. Right. Paul's supposed to be the greatest fighter.

1:36:19Rocky's just going to town. But Rocky's like, hit me in the fucking eye that might fall out of my head the whole time. He's not defending his face at all. Put your elbows down. Try to block him. Here's my biggest nitpick, though. So Adrian's in a coma for a while. Like three weeks. You think Rocky was just getting something on the side? No tubes. She's lying in the bed. Oh yeah. She's not connected to anything. Right. She's going to the bathroom. Right. Is there food? Water? Anything? It's a good one. She's just like, yeah, I'm in a coma. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. You're going to go see Adrian? Yeah.

1:36:55Let's go see her. Nothing? That's just what comas were like in 1979? Yeah. People were tougher. Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable. They've done all of this except for Prestige TV. Except for the literal Creed prequel. Yeah. Prestige TV might be coming. Did you hear Mike's got a show coming? Set in the world of? Set in the world of Creed. Michael B. Jordan? Yeah. I don't think he's going to be in it or if he is, I think he's just going to be... Mike is now the Kevin Feige of the Creed universe. He's got a Creed verse coming. Interesting. Just need to get him an Oscar nomination.

1:37:38I think it's coming. and shit went. You think it's happening? Well, I don't know. The year all of a sudden got super duper crowded. I still think that he deserves one. I'm going to be really mad if he doesn't get nominated. I think Autumn will get nominated, the cinematographer. I think Ryan will get nominated and I'm really, I think it would be awesome if Mike got nominated too. I think it was a great performance. My dude Joel Edgerton might get nominated. Train Dreams. Good movie. Did you see Train Dreams? It was fucking awesome. Good movie. Bill, you never cease to surprise me. Why wouldn't I have loved Train Dreams?

1:38:08That movie was great. Good movie. Good movie. See Train Dreams? Didn't you not like Weapons? Like I don't even know how to like… Weapons is fine. Okay. Train Dreams was awesome. I haven't seen it yet. That's the Sing Sing guys, right? Yeah. It's a great movie. I had no idea it was going to be… A couple people told me it was good. Sean… I thought it was amazing. I'm just surprised that you liked it as much. Sean put me on the movie. Sean told me about it. They caught Jack like doing something like Train Dreams was good. You know, Sean had already seen it. He saw Train Dreams probably like 2021.

1:38:39So he had already seen the movie. So he goes, hey, man, like this is like one of those films. Went south and it lived up to the hype. It was great. Is Rocket 2 better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Mad Dog, Russo, Doris Burke, Buffalo Bill, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Tony Romo, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Longlegs, or Wilford Brimley? Oh, Mike, she doesn't even have tubes in her. She's just sleeping there. It's a Wednesday night in Philly. You know, I feel like we need to do names. We've talked about this. No, you stopped in the middle of it. I was just doing Collinsworth. Oh, Collinsworth is good.

1:39:14Yeah. You're not doing Wayne Jenkins? For this? Yeah. No. All right. If we, if it's not, I don't even know if we need new ones, but we should just thin out some of these. We're going to get new ones for 26. Can I give you one that's not on the list? Yeah. 2025 Al Michaels doing the double knockdown scene. Okay. And Rocky's knockdown Creed. They're both down. Whoever gets up before 10 seconds is going to win this. Al, come on. You're one of the best announcers ever. I need a little more. I just need a little more. New season. You just want to take the time to disle. No, I just need more. I know more is in there.

1:39:54A new season of The Boys. Now streaming on Amazon. Prime video. Al could get more excited. They've had some good Thursday night games this year. Need a little more from Al. just one Oscar who gets it Bill Conti what a great call I mean I guess he's running back the same score from the first one changed key in a couple of places or Apollo's wife probably unanswerable questions did Adrian's pet store ever have a customer nobody's ever in there just the same four dogs and seven birds what could she possibly be making what is it it's like an exotic pet store in South Philadelphia any pet store need that much bird feed actually the only person that ever bought did Rocky not buy something in there for his turtle did he buy something for the dog too what's the dog's name again Brutus Buckus it's like oh good Adrian's gonna be able to work part time at our pet store with no customers it's right across the street from the boxing gym what kind of foot traffic did they get we mentioned Godzo earlier the mafia bookie Godzo or Godzo?

1:41:09I think it's just Godzo yeah what happened to him before Rocky III? that's a great question you think he got taken out in the like an Italian restaurant? hey you know what? you know what happened between Rocky III is what year again? 82 82 this was the time when the Rico statutes came in this is the Irishman this is the whole time they're fucking over these guys. I think he got blown up at the docks one day. They blew up the chicken man in Philly last night. Rocky, they say? It's Bruce Springsteen later. Oh, okay. Rocky was a 5-1 underdog for this fight, they say. Would you have bet that? After the first fight?

1:41:525-1 seems like pretty... Pretty tasty. I think Sal and I would have talked ourselves into that. You would have parlayed it with something stupid, though. I would have done Rocky for the knockout. Let's do Rocky, but let's get the Hartford Whalers in here too. Columbus Blue Jackets. That would have been Sal. Sal would have taken like a high favorite. What piece of memorabilia would you... Wait, I just want to ask one unanswerable question. Yeah. Does Rocky love boxing? No. Not at all. He... Well, so he's a club fighter. It's something that he is really good at. It feels like he's trapped boxing.

1:42:23It feels... Yeah. He's like, this body, this mind, you know, I have a few gifts. This is what I have to do. But I don't feel like he's ever like, Like, man, I can't wait to get back in the ring because I love it. I don't know if Rocky had a lot of opportunities. Yeah, right. That's the thing. But it's like asking if Murph loves going on walks. I just don't know if there's a lot going on intellectually for Rocky. What would Rocky's dream have been? I really love the theater. I don't know. He seems captivated by the old west. Rocky didn't want the rematch with Apollo at all. and you would think that he is the one that will want it more than anybody.

1:43:02Seems like he wants an office job. I think Rocky loved boxing. What else did he have? He just fucking walked around with a Super Bowl. Occasionally he would stop by the doo-wop guys. Maybe they had a good fire going. What do you think? He loved like independent movies? That's really the only thing to talk about. I love De Palma's movies lately. They've been really good. Like what did he have? He wasn't a sports fan. called Trest to Kill. he didn't love like the flyers we never knew what were Rocky's hobbies yeah I don't know couldn't drive terrible driver presumably he knows a little bit about sports gambling because he's collecting for the mob right that's one of my favorite TV movie things when the guy can't drive and they park and they hit like the garbage cans right what piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie I think it's the Beast aftershave bottle for me okay It's like very stealth, but I could put it like right behind CR.

1:44:00Like right there. Right next to the Patriot helmet. Just have the beast aftershave. I also like his fake broken nose eye thing for the commercial that you take on and off. That'd be fun to have. And then the trunks. Apollo's trunks. Either. Yeah. Trucks, gloves, anything from the fight. The car too. The cars fly. Yeah. The snow cone machine that Rocky says he's going to buy Pauly. Oh. I miss having snow cones. Really good. What won your coach Finstock award for best life lesson?

1:44:34Do you have one? Yeah. Listen to your trainer? Don't listen to your ego. That's what got Apollo. What got Apollo like legitimately relegated to a co-star in Rocky's universe? Yeah. Is he was too anxious. He was chasing it. He could have literally. If he hadn't read it. Don't read your mentions. Man. Don't read your hate mail. Don't read your hate mail. He could have literally let Rocky fade away into obscurity. Yeah, nobody would have remembered that. And the whole thing is about Apollo, but it's about Rocky now because Apollo chased it. Double feature choice? Would you go one or three? I would go three just for variety because I feel like this is so close to one.

1:45:12I would do three because in the marathon, the 28 minutes from two, when then they would go to Rocky III, the first five, ten minutes of Rocky III, which is probably the best stretch in the history of the world. Although, can I make a recommendation from the Not Rocky universe for Diggstown? Oh, what a movie. Diggstown. Honey Roy Palmer. James Woods and Luke Gossett Jr. Big Sean owns that on Blu-ray? I'm sure he does. Diggstown for 4K UHD. What is the movie, it's a boxing movie, but it's got Cuba Gooding Jr. and The White Boy. Yeah, James Marshall. Yeah. And the guy from Few Good Men. The guy from Few Good Men.

1:45:52Hal? Hal? How? Answer the obvious question How? Ask him a quick Like how? How? Like literally Man Shout out to our Men and women in service Brian Danahe gets in the ring With him at the end And at the end Gladiator's good Gladiator's good And he's punching And he puts his forehead Down like that To make him hurt us Yeah Gladiator's good Gladiator is my Dickstown double feature Okay Who won the movie? Stallone Stallone wins Yeah Directed wrote it Craig What do you got? I think the Rocky franchise Is really interesting because you get to witness in real time the transition from 70s Hollywood to 80s Hollywood.

1:46:26And you have like, the first two movies are in the 70s and it's like the gritty 70s and then the next two are in the 80s and it's like the glossy 80s. The first two movies are two hours. The next two movies are 90 minutes. And I got to be honest, I think I like three and four. Like, it's like, I don't love that. That's my opinion, but I'm like, I can't help it. I'm not sure I don't disagree. I'm not sure I don't agree with you. Craig, it's the right opinion. I think it's clear. Yeah. That's why we did three and four first before we did one and two. The end of these movies, all of them are fantastic.

1:46:54My dad and I watched this over Thanksgiving break and we like basically both fell asleep halfway through the movie. But then by the time you get to the end, we were like shadowboxing our way out of the living room. Yeah. So it always delivers at the end, but it's a tough first 90 minutes. It is. YouTube kind of killed this movie. For sure. You can watch the montage, you can watch the fight and you're like, I'm good. I mean, YouTube did a lot of harm in many ways to movies. I feel like now you can, like I talked to my two brothers-in-law and every big movie they're like oh I just I saw the end of that movie on YouTube and I'm like fuck are you even gonna watch it and they're like well there'll be blood like the bowling alley I saw the bowling alley and they're like well it's like seriously?

1:47:30oh yeah you just watch like the 20 best endings in movie history but you throw that up on YouTube and it kills you I'm such an idiot that that makes me watch movies I like I got something that popped up in my algorithm that the whole YouTube video was about the way that Sicario is written like how the actual protagonist of Sicario is Benicio Del Toro's character but the whole script makes you think that it's Emily Blunt's character the whole time have you seen Sicario? yeah heard good things you guys heard we did Two for the Money the other week that was pitched to me by Bill as here's your birthday movie Sicario and so I watched I was just like that's not how this is supposed to work I watched the whole video and then The video's maybe like four minutes long about the true hero of Sicario, whatever.

1:48:22Oh, How Sicario Fools the Audience, I think is the name of the video. And then I went and watched Sicario. Like last night when I should have been watching, doing higher learning stuff. So that pod's gonna suck today. But like I went and I watched Sicario, watched the whole thing. It's just hard. There's a lot of like TikTok, top 10 performances of the 21st century and you're watching like the climax of all these great movies. I've slipped on some of my favorites. Like I feel like it's been a while since I watched A Few Good Men in full, but have watched you can't handle the truth and you cut these guys loose like you know 300 times well I mean we have stuff like Landman to watch now that's true real art thanks to Craig thanks to Gah thanks to Eduardo don't do that top 7 social why are you getting weird about it it's fine we'll be back in the rewatchables next week

1:49:17Thank you.