‘Rollerball’ (1975) With Bill Simmons and Brian Koppelman

26:19Bill Simmons:And then we have Madrid, Tokyo. You know, that's a big online argument, right? That's a big online argument right now is what are the four major cities? You know, that's a huge TikTok thing right now. The four major New York, four major American. Oh, like Mount Rushmore for major cities? Yeah, people are really arguing about it. So now you can introduce this into it that maybe there are just three. Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh, New York, Houston. We've already solved this, guys. And then Los Angeles just gets cut out completely in rollerball, apparently. We have no LA team. Hausman, another guy we grew up with.

26:51Bill Simmons:His eyebrows, I don't know if you got to watch this in a nice big HDTV. His eyebrows are a supporting actor in the movie. It's unlike anything I've ever seen. I watched it on TV. like I watched on a big TV screen. Yeah. Again, I've watched it on computer too, but I just watched it on the big screen thing. That moment, Hausman's whole career, he never had a moment like when he enters the thing with the two girls. You've never seen Hausman. He's usually like, you know, behind a desk teaching a law class or in a commercial barking at somebody about business. And then here he gets to, in that same corporate thing, but he's entering with just these, you know, these two courtesans because that's what they are in this movie.

27:27They're courtesans. And, and, uh, I thought that was, I'm just picturing him doing the small, like when they said cut, I was thinking about when they said cut, you know, has been turning to them and just whatever that conversation.

27:38Bill Simmons:Hey ladies. Yeah. What was that? You know, cause that party is one of the strangest scenes in any movie I've ever seen in my life. I cannot absolutely wait to talk about it. Um, how's been James Mason, James Mason, it's been disallowed. Like the, the, just the distinct voices that we don't have guys like that anymore either. Who's our distinct voice English actor guy in 2025? Do we have one? I think there are a couple of them. I mean, we did. Yeah, we have a couple of them. As good as Hausman? Like, Hausman calls you and you're trying to convince him to be on your new TV show. And you would just be in awe the entire Zoom of every sentence he said.

28:17Yeah, I mean, I guess Dame Judi Dench is probably like that person in a way. If you think about it, she has that. You know it's like from that point of view. Yeah, most of the British actors now, they act in American accents so frequently, so it doesn't feel like that, right? They would have had that guy be American now.

28:35Bill Simmons:How did you feel about the corporatocracy that they lay out now that we're in 2025 and we're being run by a bunch of corporations? It's kind of weird. I mean, literally, we're being run by like five corporations. I mean, literally, there's that one person listening who wants to hear me talk about this. Okay, we're going to move on then. James Kahn 1971 Brian song 72 the godfather 74 freebie in the bean 74 the gambler 75 funny lady with uh with Barbra Streisand 75 rollerball that's all in five years the wheels come off a little bit I think for our guy Jimmy there's some playboy mansion early cocaine era he started really living like Jonathan.

29:19Bill Simmons:The IMDb gets rocky. There's a brief comeback from 79 to 81 with Chapter 2 and Thief. And then in 82, he's in Bolero with Bo Derek and some movie called Kiss Me Goodbye. Disappears for five years, stops acting. And I think when people talk about who was the craziest during the cocaine era, he's always mentioned as a how is he still alive guy. What's interesting about his movie career, he turned down the following movies. French Connection, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Close Encounters, Superman, and Kramer vs. Kramer. This guy, after Redford and maybe Newman, was the third call, I think. Maybe Reynolds, maybe it was 3A, 3B.

30:05Jack also, but Jack turned everything down.

30:08Bill Simmons:Yeah, I think people knew not even to call Jack. Yeah, but he was in that world, though, where he's just, I mean, if he has two of those, his 70s are even elevated. But then it's so great because he gets the amazing comeback then, right? He gets his own TV series. He gets Misery. I mean, it all turns around. He does get a great sort of last bunch of years, I think, where he got to be James Caan again and he got to watch his son become a television star and all that stuff. But yeah, the lost years of him and some, you know, then a bunch of unsavory guys hanging around at the playboy mansion, you know, trading, getting to hang with James Conn for Coke.

30:49I agree is, uh, it's a tough, it's a tough moment for the guy.

30:52Bill Simmons:It's tough. Have you ever, have you and Levine ever kicked the tires on a playboy mansion, late seventies scripted series or no people? Yeah. That's for the next time we see you. Uh, that's our one meeting with Oliver Stone. I'll tell you another time. Okay. That sounds Oliver Stone wanted to make that. qf nerve it's one of those great ideas that'll never happen yeah uh one other thing about rollerball i forgot to mention jewison and the production designer john box what a combo they designed the uh track they wanted it to be like a roulette wheel crossed with a pinball machine and they found this guy herbert sherman who had previously designed the track at the 72 munich olympics and they came up with that thing which now like when you watch uh the summer olympics they have those velodomes or whatever those are called yeah it's a little like that same thing where it's like a on a slanted and it was in germany right they built it in germany right and they filmed all the stuff they made it seem like it was different cities but it wasn't it was so realistic they would play it between takes and on off things and the stunt people and people just making the movie they're like hey do you want to play a little rollerball for a half hour like it was so much fun to skate around and that was it the uh i today i was listening to a behind the scenes thing that norman jewison and a few of these other guys talked on and one of them they said that the production designer that i uh he was the production designer of lawrence of arabia so he that guy had done in you know truly like incredible shit and this is the first movie ever that the stunt people were credited on individually right and they made sure of it because it was so hard like and james con did a lot of his own stunts well when you watch it and you know there's no cgi yeah half of the stunts you're like man that looks like that guy got hurt i don't know how they did it half the time their heads just bouncing against the track yeah i found this thing this afternoon i'll send it to you of the behind the sun behind the scenes footage that shows the, like the ball getting released and where they were all standing.

33:00But yeah, they released the ball obviously. And then, I mean, they did all that. Like, yeah, there's no CGI. Like a guy had to bend down and pick it up in his glove. They really did that. They really had the motorcycles and they really had the dudes behind motorcycles. Like they were practical.

33:14Bill Simmons:There's no steadicam back then either. So I don't know how they filmed some of the camera stuff because the steadicam didn't come until the year later. That's the other thing with this movie that now it seems like, oh yeah, it makes sense. They did this. In 1975, they weren't making movies like this because you had the football scene in The Longest Yard, which we covered previously watchables, and you had this, and it was like, there was nothing like this in a movie theater before. It was a little like the French Connection car chase and these seminal moments in the 70s. Yeah, you couldn't understand.

33:41Bill Simmons:I can't believe that happened. Yeah, you can't understand how the hell, you can't really understand when you're watching it how the hell they shot some of these sequences. um the not just the fight but like when you know moon pie uh has that little tough moment i mean that's just incredible the way that they uh the way they shot it and the way that they staged it and you really feel it you know oh yeah yeah because we've taught we did close encounters we've done jaws obviously there were these how the hell did they do that moment that you had in the theater because you just had never seen anything like it.

34:19Bill Simmons:Now I feel like that shit in 2025, I don't think those exist anymore. And we're just so conditioned to CGI and crazy stuff. I can't remember the last time I sat in the theater. That's what was so cool about F1. When seeing that in the theater, it was like, wow, how'd they do this? How'd they film that crash like that? And then you felt like you were in the race. It was a rare time of having that excitement in theater. Yeah. Have you seen that? That's what's so crazy. Have you seen that moment where Stallone is talking about how he wouldn't consider, uh, Michael B. Jordan, a real member of the Rocky family?

35:01Oh, yeah.

35:01Bill Simmons:Yeah. Michael B. Jordan told that story on my podcast, like 10 years ago. Have you seen the clip? I mean, there's a clip and I guess it was, it wasn't Andrew Tarver, right? It was one of the, one of the, one of the sparring partners, but they, yeah. I can't even believe 10 years ago that they would not, I mean, there's no. No, they would have seized you at everything. Uh, you mentioned William Harrison wrote rollerball murder in September, 1973 Esquire. Um, didn't mention the sport that much, but, uh, but that's how this all got going. Jewison got excited about it. His goal was to show the sickness and insanity of contact sports and their allure, uh, mission not accomplished.

35:43Bill Simmons:football became way bigger right after this movie not because of the movie uh there's a united artist things i just wanted to mention quickly the production company that made this they were bought by a bigger company called transamerica in 1967 they rolled off in the heat of the night the graduate midnight cowboy last tango cuckoo's nest rocky annie hall and then in 79 rocky to manhattan moonraker and black stallion but then heaven's gate happened which was immortalized in the final cut. But they were on the cutting edge with some of these movies, including this one. I almost felt like they were a little A24-ish, like taking crazy, crazy risks.

36:21Bill Simmons:Like I can't imagine anybody even greenlighting this movie. Well, this is the 70s movies that people talk about. And once, you know, I'm sure you know this, but he said it on my podcast for the first time. And then I think he's talked about it on the thing he does with Avery. But you know, Quentin Tarantino is still saving this movie to watch. of all the 70s movies, this is the one that's like canonical that he's never seen. And he's saving it. Interesting. That's like me and the big Lebowski. Still haven't seen it. Yeah, I don't understand it with him. Even on 4K Blu-ray, I'm just saving it. Have your kids watched Lebowski?

36:56Bill Simmons:I'm just saving it for the perfect day. And I'm going to dive into it and get really into it. Oh, yeah, you got it. I mean, yeah, you got to watch it. But same thing, Quentin, for whatever reason, talks about the 70s more than anybody else, right? Written all about, he still hasn't watched Rollerball. He's still saving Rollerball. It's so weird because this combines so many different things of movies that he loves. I know. It's hard to understand. Like a great alpha star performance, like a weird sport, a weird world, a good director. Most critics were lukewarm in this movie. It was$6 million budget, made$30 million.

37:27Bill Simmons:Vincent Camby, New York Times. Rollerball isn't a satire. It's not funny at all. Not being funny, it becomes instead frivolous. he can fuck off Gene Siskel two stars a movie in love with itself vapid, pretentious and arrogant Raj could not find a review but he did give this movie three and a half stars but the review is not online James Caan in 1977 rated all his films and rated Rollerball an eight out of ten but said he couldn't do much with the character was his scouting report on himself So there you go. We're going to take a break and then we're going to do most rewatchable scene. This episode is brought to you by Prime.

38:10Bill Simmons:Sure, we're called the rewatchables. And yeah, we usually rewatch movies obsessively, but every now and then we trade screenplays for eBooks. Some moments just call for it. Like when the credits roll and you're still in movie mode, but your watch list is empty. Or when everyone says the original story is better than the movie and you got to see what the hype's about. Prime gives you access to a whole library of free eBooks so you can swap the rewatch for a reread or try something new. Free eBooks library. It's on Prime. Most rewatchable scene. The opening, everything. First 10 minutes. The opening credits with the music.

38:47Bill Simmons:We've got a little box to Kata. Fugue in D minor. I was practicing those. I got to give a shout out. The free game warmups. I got to give a shout out because the most incredible thing, one of the most incredible things of my childhood was our friend Peter Zizzo figured out how to play box, the cotton, fugue, and D minor on electric guitar at Lake Eddie Van Halen. So shout out. For real, it was incredible. Yep. That's why I know what that is. We get pregame warm-ups, Houston, Madrid. By the way, we forgot to mention they created the corporate national anthem for this. And it's pretty good. It's crazy, though.

39:19That's a crazy thing, and it's an amazing moment. Yep. Agreed.

39:22Bill Simmons:And then Jonathan has three goals. We get to watch what the game is. They do a nice job, some wide shots, close-up, and it's like what? And by five minutes, you understand everything. And then we have Jonathan scoring over and over again. And then with Moon Pie, I love this game, Moon Pie. What are your Moon Pie thoughts played by John Beck? The swooper? Moon Pie the swooper? Moon Pie was the mustache guy. Yeah. But he's also the swooper, right? Because he's the one who he, they call him his position. It's the only position that's stated in the movie is swooper, which is just because he comes swooping down from the top and knocks the guy off the motorcycle right he's like i don't know is he like a left tackle what is that's his move right his move is defensive end come yeah well then stay close to me stay close you're right he's got to stay close uh protects jimmy khan and then khan a lot of charisma on moon pie uh so i got that one i got jonathan's lecture to the team when toughy decides to uh make a run at him and uh we had to see khan in a sleeveless white t-shirt I have the uh the interview with Jonathan and his latest girlfriend with the stats guy when we find out most points in the game was 18 the guy says I'm a big stats guy this is 1975 nobody like Bill James hadn't even written the baseball abstract yet this might have been this guy might have inspired Bill James for all we know uh most velocity shot out for the ball was 120 miles an hour most deaths nine caused by yeah this was for me the if you had a category that was like you know the money ball category for the greatest stat i mean to me i you know the best sort of war kind of stat was that jonathan had uh nine deaths in a game so jonathan had the record for most injuries caused by one guy 13 13 yeah 13 injuries and then most deaths was nine rome versus Pittsburgh.

41:18Bill Simmons:What happened in that game? Because they had penalties and they had all the old rules. The room, Pittsburgh, obviously a lot of bad blood. We see that get beat twice. The crazy futuristic party. I wrote down, it's like Eyes Wide Shut crossed with Ice Storm crossed with The Shining. I don't know what's happening in this party. They're screening Jonathan's special retirement show, but he doesn't actually retire. They have like a prototype for a big-ass plasma it's a it's about as big a tv as you've seen in a 70s movie uh people it's are they escorts or is it like a call girl party is this like a prototype for Heidi Fleiss in the 80s I think it's the scene that pulls back if you're watching that movie and you just are kind of going along thinking oh it looks like things are all right I think that's the scene that really shows you that you're living in one of those futures that is super fucked up and dark and that very few people have any rights at all.

42:19And like, not in the, um, it, I think the point they're trying to make in that, in that really so fucked, first of all, everybody's on these super designer drugs that probably were barely invent some combination of Quaaludes and, uh, Molly, and they're all taking them and passing them around and, uh, kind of drifting into this place. You'd describe James Kahn's performance as being, but each of those women and men are just kind of describing that the, the women were kind of shuttled to the men kind of ordered to be with them. And nobody, like you said, there's no kids, but I would say there's no love.

42:59It's a world that almost has, has prescribed love, you know, gotten rid of love because like, I think that's part of what you're supposed to feel in that scene. Cause if you think about it, even by the, when Jonathan thinks and at first convinced himself, he used to be in love. He realizes, no, that's not true either. And I think that's part of what's going on in that scene. And that one shot to the woman is just crying, randomly crying. It's fucking insane. Uh, and, uh, it is one of the strangest it goes on forever and at first you're like, this is going on four minutes too long. But by the end of it, you're like, I think they might have earned it.

43:37I think it might have been okay. I think they somehow earned it.

43:40Bill Simmons:Once we get outside shooting a fire gun at pine trees.

43:49Bill Simmons:My life, that's incredible! That's incredible! then it suddenly becomes like this environmental movie like where you're supposed to understand these people don't give a shit it's like it's like they say all this but what's different than the way someone would that movie now is is someone take a half hour to make a lecture about why these people are bad what's so great about this movie is it lets you just watch it and decide watch the movie yeah he's not lecturing at you you just see a cut to these like naked wild beautiful people or whatever. And suddenly they have super weapons, like, you know, a cartoon, like a men in black level weapons, like the little tiny, you know, and.

44:28Yeah, we don't have those now. No, they don't exist now. You just flick the thing and then whoosh, yeah, trees go up. It's crazy. Totally crazy. For me, the best scene. Wait, we're not done yet. I have a couple more.

44:41Bill Simmons:But for that futuristic party, I'm adding a special category we don't get to give out very often. the Mallory Rubin Award for Did This Movie Need a Better Sex Scene? Or in this case, Did This Movie Need a Sex Scene? You've already given me the hard R. It's a rated R in 1975. I just feel like this party could have been a little friskier. It must have been on the cutting floor. Norman Jewison, we're not judging you. It must have been on the cutting floor. Everyone's drinking and they're hanging and it's feeling very Ice Storm, Key Party-ish. And then we just, all of a sudden we're shooting trees.

45:17Bill Simmons:Yeah, I think we missed out. A couple more. Tokyo versus Houston. No penalties. What a monkey wrench. Can you imagine if the NFL is like, AFC championship game, no penalties? We would have been like, what? No penalties. But that's also the moment that, like, that's the toughest as a screen. I'll just say, screenwriting-wise, that's the toughest moment in the movie is all John Hausman wants. He's the most powerful man in the world. Yes, there's these three people or four people you find out who are above him. But basically, he is the axe out the wishes, right? He is he's the most powerful man in the universe.

45:57And all he wants is to get Jonathan to quit playing the game. And the whole movie is about how do I convince Jonathan to quit? I just I'll do anything. Jonathan, there's nothing you can't have. And it's like one of those old jokes, nothing. And then Jonathan looks at him and goes, OK, but all I need is that my I will quit. I'll do everything you want. I won't destabilize the entire world you built by proving the individual is the better. I will quit. All you have to do is put the rules back in the game. And Houseman's like, well, I can't do that.

46:31Well, we've already announced it. We've already announced it. You see, people can't have babies. The women are ripped out of houses to go to others. You can do anything you want. You don't want to disappoint the fans. It's like Bud Selleck calling that game in whatever inning. It's like, you can do anything you want. What inning was that where he just decided you can't keep going? Yeah, he just stopped.

46:50Bill Simmons:Yeah, the All-Star Game. One of the worst moves in the history of sports. That's a great one. That's a very good weak link for this movie. I had one as well. The Tokyo vs. Houston. I mentioned I love the warm-up. This game gets more and more violent, culminating in the – Jonathan just gets pissed. He starts wreaking havoc, and they knock that one guy down, and he drags the guy over to where the rollerball is getting released and the thing just nails his head. It's like, oh my God. That was the moment that nine-year-old me, that very moment was the moment nine-year-old me was like, I might not belong in this movie theater.

47:32You know that moment where you're nine or 10 and you're watching something that's above your grade? I think above your, like, I just remember that guy, that ball hitting that guy's head and killing him like that. and you're just like, Jesus Christ.

47:44Bill Simmons:That was me at The Shining at age 10 when Scatman Crothers took the axe. I was like, what just, what? I love that guy. Well, that's particularly cruel because he's the most lovable character in the history of cinema. If you made a list of them, 10 most lovable characters in the history of cinema, Scatman Crothers in The Shining is like number four. Yeah, yeah. It's a terrible moment. I agree, horrible. He has two naked lady paintings on each side of his bedroom and wherever the hell he lives. I love that guy. uh well and then tokyo versus houston we get the moon pie death which is just an absolute gut punch it's up there with for me i mean not everyone knows this movie but for me it's up there with goose and top gun and like some of the great side sunny getting shot at the toll booth like it's i just fucking love me i gotta be christian i gotta be christian sean in this moment no it's not it's not enough it's not in the league of those moments i love this movie moments oh it's like they kill moon pie like don't kill moon pie i love moon pie hilarious you're not giving me goose Goose is one of, no.

48:42I mean, Goose, I could, if you just talked a little bit more about Goose's death, I could cry right now. At Moon Pie, I can just, Moon Pie's a murderer. They're all murderers. All these fucking dudes are murderers, man.

48:55Bill Simmons:They have no choice. They're in a Capitocracy. What's it called? No, yeah, they are. And what, Capitocracy. Capit. Yeah, Capit. No, it's K-A-K, right? Yeah. Cap, Cap, Capit. No, you're saying kleptocracy, but no, the other one is the Capitocracy, which is the one where it's uh the entire thing is just rigged up like that yeah two more jonathan uh finally realizes ella the lady that is loved forever that the whole thing's fraudulent she's trying to convince him to come back and he erases his her videos that he always watches right in front of her good breakup uh maude adams wow wow just just looks fantastic but also gives you a yeah that it gives you a hint though that what James Kahn is doing in the movie is what was asked of him because all those scenes, everybody's kind of playing those scenes that way.

49:46The only one who doesn't really is in that little world of that stuff. The only one who doesn't is, you know, his former player coach who's now an executive, the guy he has the, you know, the meeting with, he's constantly asking him to get him information, but everyone else plays the whole thing. Like they're just slightly under being awake. They're just not quite awake.

50:05Bill Simmons:the final game the last thing houston versus new york i love there's so many great things about this game i love when uh the game's going on there's no penalties and it's basically like there's only gonna be one person alive at the end of this and then the coaches are getting mad about cheap shots it's like this is a fight to the death where you can't be upset that somebody just got clotheslined they're not going to call anything There's no penalties. Do you have the best quote of the movie category coming up at all? Well, we can put it right here. Game? Yeah, that's it, right? That's got to be.

50:44I mean, that's got to be. This wasn't meant to be a game ever.

50:47Bill Simmons:Ain't nobody going to win this game. Game? This wasn't meant to be a game. Never. Because it's not a dialogue heavy film. That's the line. That, to me, that's the number one line in the film. Yeah. Well, everyone goes down in the first period. One of the great first periods. Terrible game plan. We get some strategy. It's just Jonathan. He's already banged up. Got a guy and then his buddy with the motorcycle, and there's a fire, and they just, they basically Buffalo Bills it. This is like watching Josh Allen against the Chiefs. It's like, you have everything. It's fourth and one. Just get the first down.

51:26Bill Simmons:They overthink it. They do a one at a time thing and Jonathan just demolishes them. You think it's like Pete Carroll level. The Malcolm Butler play. Yeah. You have it. It's two against one. This is a wrap. Yeah. The thing is though, there's a great freeze frame in that. When, when he kills the guy right up against the executives and one of them, the younger one has this look on his face. It's just what Norman Jewison was going for. you can imagine he spoke that actually like he he said to the assistant director like okay that guy sitting next to john houseman is very important i need that guy to be awesome like we need somebody good in that seat that was like my son my son um ringside for ufc when taporia knocked out knocked out the guy in the main event my son would basically have that look on his face i i this is too good for probably an answerable question so i'm putting in here is this the number one craziest sports movie sporting event you could have gone to the houston new york rollerball finals uh no penalties there's only going to be one live one one like where would you have wanted to sit would you want it to been would you been right on the glass or would you live a little further back in case a motorcycle guy went in like what would your move have been where would you want to sit luxury box i i don't think there's any i love this question this is like an amazing a whole pod you should do a whole podcast on this is a good incredible question this is a round table get 80 or good friends and this is the best yeah i can't believe you've never done it's amazing i we keep we've intermittently done pieces of it and rewatchable because to me no the mr t fight you got to go to clubber lang clubber lang is the fight if you could see anything you think about think about what the build-up would have been to the clubber lang rematch like with me just think about what the what you would have been feeling in the world to go to to that to go to that fight well you could do the drago fight when the russian crowd turns i i think i honestly creed balboa the the the second second fight rocky yeah rocky too it's pretty good i was thinking uh i remember doing this as a mailbag question a million years ago um i think the the natural roy hobbs hitting the game pennant winning homer and then and knocking the lights out i think would have been incredible but club but cover lane because of what he said about Adrian and just how much he baited him in.

53:56And I think if you were a Rocky fan, which you would have been as a kid, right. And in real life, I think it would have been like Ali Frazier times 10. Like you just, well,

54:06Bill Simmons:none of these is the actual answer because I think we did answer this once. It's the soccer game and victory. Sure. It's Pele bicycle. Yeah. The moral victory of winning, but they call the goal back and then Stallone stopping. the penalty kick and then everyone escaping it's it's it's a sporting event mixed with the great escape so you go to the game you're under some sort of rule you actually get to escape i think that's the winner okay i also would have wanted to be there for shoot versus loud and swaying 100 i'm upset please i've referenced david and i've referenced that fucking movie and thing like everything we've ever agreed with you couldn't agree more major league those guys winning um frank ducks i think beating chung lee in blood sport i mean you know a little darker but um i think it would have been cool to see i mean and then you want to see kareem abdul jabbar's fight in the bruce lee movie if you're going there that would have been pretty amazing no spectators for that but i mean i'm saying it wouldn't have been great to be able to be there costner perfect game and for love of the game yankee stadium you wish the movie was just one notch you wish the movie was one notch better i still don't mind it um okay what's the most 1975 thing about this movie sorry we're really wrong by the way obviously it's the fight in the gym between oh the secret third secret fight between apollo creed balboa fight i just i just realized that right i mean that's where you got i mean you tell your friends forever you'd never stop talking about it worst worst sporting event to go to from a movie um the million dollar baby fight oh god horrible the worst thing ever the dad can you imagine being like ah let's just go let's get in our car no but you know what would have been worse than that but you know that i'm of the generation you were too young but i watched the boom boom nc dooku kim in real time i watched it too cbs i watched it in real time i with my i swear like i'm not making it up i got because CBS during the day.

56:08Bill Simmons:Yeah, it was awful. I'll never forget watching it. I'll never forget trying to track it because we couldn't, this is another thing nobody can understand. I'm sorry that we're old. I'm old. You didn't know what happened until the newspaper. You would watch the news at night and hope they would tell you. And then you had to wait to read the newspaper the next day. And the next day, because it took two days, I think. You had to find that out like 48 hours later. Yeah. Most 1970 thing about this movie, I'm either going with the 70s babes, just the look of the women in this movie, which is very Charlie's Angels, first season three's company, or that they thought in 1975 that the future would not have cell phones or the internet.

56:48Bill Simmons:Because they kind of had that computer. It's like the cloud, basically, which is what we have now, but they just didn't, they felt like it was going to be in some, in water, in some sort of factory in Geneva. And it's like, no, it's actually just going to be in the air. I'm going to be talking to my friend Koppelman right now with Wi-Fi. I think it's, I think it's, uh, I think it's that they let, they let an actor hit a heavy bag with no, with just his bear. Nobody would let, they let an actor who's not in a boxing movie hit a heavy bag with nothing on his hand. Like everything we know now, if you saw a friend of yours hitting a heavy bag, like you don't go to the wheel, but without something, it's insane.

57:32That's fully. That's a great one. You know, that's a great answer.

57:35Bill Simmons:I love it. What's age the best? The conceit of rollerball as a sport. John Hausman as a villain with his crazy eyebrows. He's got his crystal thinking layer where he goes in. Does Levine have that? Where you go to see Levine, he's just surrounded by crystals in an all-white room. In general, like how white and light everything is feels futuristic and fun to me. um the huge tvs i mentioned earlier that's about as big of a tv as you've seen a movie here's one any moment in a movie where a hero is about to kill the last guy and does the thing where he holds the rock or the knife up and then decides and they cut to the guy the guy on the bottom like ready like the bad boy champagne si morales cut but the guy doesn't kill him it's just a winner wins every time oh what a movie you just referenced thank you the best the exploding boom box come on the exploding boom box in that movie one of the great great ever yeah the 70s track suits that uh they're wearing like i feel like those should come back i'd wear them i'd wear them tomorrow i'm gonna tell craig to get one we mentioned the white pills everyone took and whether this foreshadowed the mushrooms molly era that we're in now um we never see kids we never see downtown we never see a restaurant even when they go downtown in houston it's just this amorphous like buildings and um i think this was just how they were able to shoot the future back then but it also shaped my view of what the future was when i was a little kid did you have that where movies and tv shaped what you thought in your head the future was for me it's just light and buildings and kind of emptiness yeah it was all that stuff at the jetsons right and flying cars that's what we thought flying cars oh here's one bartholomew hasman's character and jonathan parallels to goodell and brady in the seattle seahawks patriot super bowl when they they're trying to get brady and he won anyway came back malcolm butler wins it jonathan i mean i was gonna say and and honestly you can craig you can you can you can cut this out but i mean no the for me the future is presaged because when john hausman says to those guys and it's great because you got to be paying attention but he says listen we've decided nothing special is going to happen to jonathan they're they make the decision they're not going to kill jonathan they're going to let the game take its course and i was like that must have been the conversation that skipper and eiger had about you oh my god you can leave that in we're not going to let anyone i don't know that's what you're where you were going.

1:00:24Yeah. They're not going to, we're not going to let anything special. We're not going to, nothing special is going to happen to Bill. We'll just let it take its own course. He'll, he'll take himself out soon enough. We don't have to take him. That's amazing.

1:00:35Bill Simmons:Oh man. I didn't know you were going there. The, the seventies babes of this movie, Maude Adams, Pamela Hensley, and Barbara Trentham, the big three. So tell me if you agree with this for what's age the best. Jewison said, the movie could be taken as a metaphor for the creative artists struggling against the corporate mediocrity of Hollywood and the executive group think they're in thoughts.

1:01:07Sure. I think so much of it, it aged. I think what's so incredible is I love when you read the reviews and even Siskel. Like I think what aged the best and it's always the thing, like the movie fucking aged the best. The movie is so good. And despite what maybe Craig's going to say at the end, the movie is so good that as a whole, and it makes total sense to me that it wasn't in its, like in its time, it was kind of a modest hit. As you said, what did you said? It did 30 on six. but but i don't think people understood like that it was actually trying to do that stuff it was actually trying to make someone think about something and it got so much right and like honestly that energy okay so i'm not gonna again like the politics no one wants me i'm not gonna talk about this but david foster wallace making the years named after corporations and shit and people you know venus with the year venus williams this movie did all this stuff there's no doubt that all those writers who became like the huge writers in the 90s they grew up watching movies like this and it influenced the way that they thought about the world and you just feel it so i think it i think the movie is what really lasted a long time um book censorship and history

1:02:17Bill Simmons:getting erased sadly is age the best when he's watching the old mod adams dvds the music that's playing where it's like, it's so good. Great call. I wouldn't have thought about that. That's a great call. Yes. The violence of football of the next 50 years. Then the last one, Dick Ember calling a game has always aged the best. Just great to hear his voice. Amazing. Really miss that guy. Amazing. And, and are you, I think that, uh, I guess we can talk about the computer. We got to give a little bit to that whole computer scene, but we can do that in the, uh, unfortunately it's terrible. Cause you named that award after teddy kgb but we got to do that the actor being in his own thing because i have that was a that's a compliment though oh yeah but i don't want to ever reference my own thing you know what i mean it's like don't be a jerk but no but i'll say ralph richardson that guy sir ralph richardson he's this legendary british the first actor to be knighted in england is that guy lawrence olivier got knighted second after this fucking guy.

1:03:22And it's true. Like one was 1946, the other was 47. And because that guy is in his own movie and it's a great movie, the movie he's in. Like he makes James Caan totally different.

1:03:33Bill Simmons:He's like in a Bond comedy. Oh yeah. He is in a totally different, he's on a talk show with Orson Welles. Like what is he? He's in Citizen Kane. What is he doing? And he's like, it's his own. Like you could tell that guy was in a room. He's like, knows he's going to be, he's playing a guy who spends a lot of time alone. Right. And just as an act, like thinking about what that guy did as an actor, he built like layers and layers and layers. And then it's totally wrong for them. It's amazing. It's just amazing to me. Perfection. I agree with you. Great shot, Gordor Awards. So many options for most cinematic shot.

1:04:11Bill Simmons:I really like when Jonathan scores that one goal against Tokyo and then the guys, the fans behind him through the window are yelling and he just bangs. It just feels seventies hockey. You mentioned moon pies, coma, the, the coma shot that it, when they lift the helmet up, I think that's the best shot in the movie. I think it's the one you mentioned, but I think it's the one you mentioned before the ball hitting the guy. Okay. I think the ball hitting the guy is like, so cause you just feel it. It really is so effective because it stays with you for 50 years, dude. kid cutty pursuit of happiness award best needle drop the ending when the music kicks back in again it's just great um yeah you're like somebody you're like someone's been watching some stanley cubrick for jimson you know chess rock while brocklanders award best character name moon pie is pretty great i need to bring that back and then uh butch's girlfriend award for the weak link of the film.

1:05:11Bill Simmons:You mentioned yours. Here's mine. I, I just think the corporation either kills Jonathan or just kidnaps him to keep them out of the final game. I don't think they go through this whole rigmarole trying to, Oh, we don't really don't want you to play. Now we're going to change the rules to try to kill you. Like how about just killing them? No, they're worried. It's like, what happened with Jonathan? Oh, Jonathan had a tragic accident on a horse. He's dead. But they're worried about Martin. See, this is the thing. Why the whole thing about the individual is they don't want to make him into a martyr.

1:05:42So they can't.

1:05:43Bill Simmons:People know he just died. They control the news. It's like sad news. Jonathan's dead. All right. Oh no. I love that guy. All right. I can't argue with that. It just feels like an easier way to do it than to rig the game with no rules. And, you know, I mean, the other weak link is sending a terrible, uh, in the context of the thing, like, I'm not saying the woman who played her was a terrible actress, but the one, the one girlfriend, the blonde, the blonde. I mean, they're just, first of all, it's like the whole beginning of the Sharon Stone Schwarzenegger thing where she comes in there and he realizes she's turned.

1:06:16She practically is going to wheel and kick him like Sharon Stone did until recall. But, uh, that was pretty weak that scene. And then when he almost, you know, Jonathan almost really hurts her.

1:06:27Bill Simmons:I have that in what stage the worst, not a great moment. Yeah. That's in the what's aged the worst you know longest yard had a random domestic violence scene too i just think it's the 70s i can't uh can't explain it we mentioned the super system memory pool which now is just the cloud um the tokyo team there's some pretty some pretty apparent racist stuff with that this is what 32 32 years after world war ii uh could still feel some of that uh in the 70s was still that bad yeah we're still doing very yeah very rough and um racist the cte issues with rollerball i was thinking would probably hilarious probably not great like an outside the lines the rollerball guys 20 years later they're all like bob lee looking at this yeah bob lee's like you do not want bob lee looking at this thing 100 but the number one what's aged the worst is that they remade this movie in 2002 it's one of the worst movies ever i wrote about it for page two i think it was one of my better early page two pieces i like skewered it uh it's really awful john mctiernan made it weirdly which he made so many good movies it's really really one of the worst to me it's like bad news bears go to japan uh the rollerball remake it's on a short list of the worst ones we've ever had um among the worst you know i i will i've never i watched 30 seconds of it maybe 40 seconds of it and never watched more than that.

1:07:59Shut it off. Wouldn't go to the theater because why do the, you know, why?

1:08:05Bill Simmons:Well, it also violates the rule of why are we making a movie that is still exceedingly awesomely 27 years after they made the original. We're going to take one more break and then we're going to do a couple more categories. This message is brought to you by AppleCard. Shave ice by the beach. A trip to the state fair and a throwback flick at the local drive-in. They're more than just items to check off the summer bucket list. There are also opportunities to earn 2 % daily cash back when you use your Apple card with Apple pay apply for Apple card. Now use in minutes with Apple pay subject to credit approval.

1:08:43Bill Simmons:Apple card is issued by Goldman Sachs bank, USA salt Lake city branch terms and more at applecard.com. This episode is brought to you by chat. GPT. Imagine you're running a professional sports team. Nice. Imagine the player contract report is due today. Not so nice. You've got performance notes from the coaching staff. You got a salary spreadsheet from your analyst, three rounds of back and forth emails with the agent, and all of it is scattered absolutely everywhere. Well, that's where chat GBT work comes in. It's a new way to use chat GBT for bigger multi-step projects. Give chat GBT work access to your apps and files and can create real work documents.

1:09:22Bill Simmons:for instance, spreadsheets, slides, structured reports. You can bring all those to your next meeting and when you don't need answers, you need help just getting the work across the finish line. Chat GPT work can move your projects forward while you stay in control. Put Chat GPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. Get started. Just go to chatgpt.com by selecting work mode available on plus and pro plans. This episode is brought to you by Angry Orchard Hard Cider. Halloween's just better with a scary movie and something good to drink Angry Orchard's limited edition glow-in-the-dark thriller variety pack is the perfect companion it even includes a mystery flavor can featuring the iconic ghost face from Scream don't get angry, get Orchard this Halloween find Angry Orchard in a store near you or visit angryorchard.com Angry Orchard's Cider Company LLC angryorchard.com please drink responsibly.

1:10:22Bill Simmons:Angry Orchard is a hard cider with other natural flavors. The Ruffalo Hannum Grubinuck Partridge Overacting Award. So you, it sounds like you're leaning toward the coach on this, but I, can I offer you Jonathan's ex-girlfriend shooting the fire gun with that crazy look on her face? I mean, look, I think maybe nobody knew who they were. They spent a lot of time on the stunts and maybe, I bet you that Norman Drewson, great director, like I said, I mean, that guy made some really unbelievably important, great movies. But my guess is that so much of his time was spent on making sure the gameplay was right that there wasn't a lot of energy in terms of making sure the performances were locked you know and that's hard it's really hard do you have a flex category or we already did it i think my my flex category would have been the uh kgb actor thing because that guy is so good i think that guy's in his own movie but i think he's great like i think he's just in his own movie okay and do you have a cr thinks Luke Wilson would have been Harrison Ford hottest take order now.

1:11:21Bill Simmons:Because if you don't, we can move on. I mean, the hottest take would just literally be that, yeah, I have such a hot take that I think it will get me... I think this movie is every... It's the whole point of the category. I think this movie is better than Parallax View. I think it's more accurate. I think it more accurately makes you feel what a paranoid thriller is supposed to make you feel because there's nothing else like it. Parallax View is like a million different things. And this movie, there's nothing else like it. And it tackles, none of us are going to be in a situation where we're thought to have shot the thing and they're pinning a giant murder on it.

1:11:59But all of us watch sports. All of us interact with these corporations. All of us have felt that feeling that the game was rigged and we don't quite know why. Or what was really going on in that game, we'll never really learn what really happened. and this movie makes you feel all that shit. And so I think rollerball, and I think it's - It's like LJ's four-point play. And yeah, that was - Who ordered that? The second Knicks dig. I was at the game and it was so great. Just perfect moment. Continuation, pal. We still haven't won a championship. I don't know if you noticed, but we still haven't won a championship since I was seven.

1:12:33Bill Simmons:It's been a while. At least the team's good again. I couldn't find any casting what ifs. The best that guy award. so moses gunn plays cleat and moses gunn who was in shaft but had a nice run in the 70s where he would be like in streets of san francisco and he just was around he was one of those guys so shout out to him but to me moon pie because i didn't realize that moon pie did i like forgot that he's the same guy who did all those episodes of dallas yeah i i couldn't he might be john bad i mean for craig he's moon pie okay we we still don't know if craig liked this movie but he was in yeah you're 60 episodes of Dallas somehow.

1:13:10Bill Simmons:I know. DM Waiters, I think it's Maude Adams coming in hot. Yeah, I can't. He's coming in. No argument. Maude, we just need you to shoot for two days. We're just going to shoot you laughing and looking really hot. And then we need you to do like three lines with James Conny. But a special shout out. I think you got to give a special shout out to the thankless. It's like, I wish the most thankless role, the guy who has to come in, the Japanese guy that I think because it's the Tokyo team, has to come in there and he's got all he wants to do is share the science with them and it must be like having a meeting with you know robert kennedy and like he just wants to tell him about the science and they don't want to you know they don't want to hear about the science recasting couch director city can i offer you gene hackman as the houston coach we just go up a level with gene and then he gets a lot more dialogue nobody else could have played who else could play jonathan burt reynolds and i think james khan's a better choice because the smoke because james khan was smarter like on screen he read as smart you think he's smarter i think burt could have done the athleticism and the swagger hero stuff um he probably would have enjoyed getting physical with the ladies having love scenes could redford could redford have done it no not a good enough like not credible athletically like as a violent athlete I don't think he's got that dark, the snapping side.

1:14:34Bill Simmons:Warren Beatty would have been interesting. I don't know if he would have done it, but I think athletically, I think he could have done it. That's a good call. He's credible in heaven can wait. You believe he can throw a football? He could. I think he was a good athlete. All right. Craig's flex category is here, but he's passing. Craig, just a mystery man for this pod. Have fast-earned research. You mentioned they shot everything in Munich. a bunch of opera in this movie if you want to go check out the different songs. Some of it's online. Rollerball the video game, which I waited for for most of my video game playing life.

1:15:12Bill Simmons:And it finally was supposed to happen in 1998. Got delayed. And then the publisher went bankrupt. I don't understand why we didn't have a rollerball video game. I think it would have been amazing. And maybe there's still time. Nobody died during the filming of any of the stunts, but we did have some major injuries. And then Devo saw this movie and ended up writing the Devo corporate anthem for their 1979 album. Bill, somebody at Rockstar Games should just, there should be a moment in GTA. And if it delays GTA by another two years, who's going to care? But there should be a moment where you should walk into an arena.

1:15:50Bill Simmons:Get to play rollerball? In Grand Theft Auto, you should walk into an arena and get to play rollerball. Think about it. That's the most logical thing. It could be in GTA the next year. It could be in the one that comes out right the month before I die. That's when they could, you know what I mean? For 30 years from now, they'll get that one in. Apex Mountain. James Caan. It's right around here for him. Because Godfather's been a couple years. He's in a movie with Barbra Streisand the same year when she's probably the biggest female lead. I think it's right around here. The Gambler just come out.

1:16:25Bill Simmons:He's making a bunch of movies. And he has the wheels haven't come off yet. So I would say maybe yes. Okay. Plus this movie did well. Can't argue. Fake created sports in a sports movie. I'm also going to say yes. Unless you want to go dodgeball. No, this is it. Dick Enberg, no. Dick Enberg in a movie, also no, because he's better in heaven can wait, because you can see him. Maude Adams, she was in Tattoo with Bruce Dern, which I think I might have seen when I was a teenager and don't remember that much of, but it's probably this. She's a huge model though. So it's the era where the 70s, they would just grab a famous model and just throw them in a movie.

1:17:05Bill Simmons:Norman Jewison, no. It's probably in the heat of the night. I mean, Cincinnati Kid, Hurricane. No, you got to say Moonstruck because the Oscars and stuff, it's got to be Moonstruck. But I mean, that Poitier movie. Yeah, it's a great movie. Oh no, great, great, great, great, great movie. not not of course but later i always think that the guy later in the i always think like yes but i always think a guy that had this happen when it comes back and it's moonstruck like yeah and everyone's celebrating this guy but that's a career highlight i'm talking more like when did he have the most juice oh yeah okay probably late 60s sure yes houston as a sports city did you go here or would you go hakeem rockets the jonathan e era dan pastorini and earl campbell well that's like right after jonathan e um john beck it's clearly 60 episodes of dallas john hausman no no probably paper chase it's gotta be setting pine trees on fire 100 and then uh just roller skating roller skating maybe did we ever do better in a roller skating movie no no this is this is the coolest it ever looked for sure all right most important part of the podcast for you.

1:18:23Cruise or Hanks for the lead?

1:18:26Bill Simmons:It's Cruise and a walk. It's not even close. It's not even close. This would have been an amazing Cruise movie. No, no, but it's, but Hanks, if he wanted to do the dark turn, could play the Hausman role. He'd be amazing because you believe that he cared about Jonathan. Or how about young Hanks as Moon Pie? Like 19 bosom buddies Hanks. He was never, he was never, he was never the enforcer. no it's definitely cruz scorsese or spielberg and that says martin scors Martin scorsese i had that as well what role would philip seymour hoffman have played oh this is great probably a younger hausman he's in the he's in the corporatocracy yeah but well would this have been one of those there's not really that showy you know young young philip seymour hoffman like you know in heartache there's not like that flashy little moment where a guy comes in like that in this movie i don't know if there's a role for psh in this picking nets so i had some questions about the rollerball penalties before they got rid of penalties karate kicking the motorcycle guys seems bad that's three minutes headlock punch okay headlock punch with the spike punch to the helmet seems fine.

1:19:44Bill Simmons:Motorcycle guy knocking the other motorcycle guy from behind, like spinning them out seems legal. Um, I looked this up. I, this was my internet research. I looked it up. I looked up what, what, um, rules penalty. So the violence and you're right. You're so on this. It's the, you're completely on it. These penalties only existed. So all those things, you could do them mall as long as it was in the course of the gameplay oh that's what they said yeah when you when i looked when i looked sounds like jewison came up with that at the 11th hour they're like yo what's the difference between these penalties like uh course of gameplay course of the gameplay so so that if instead of if if wally let's say right after jonathan scores and you're resetting The ball hasn't shot out yet.

1:20:34You went and spike punched a guy in the head. Penalty. Then that's a penalty. But if you spike punch a guy when he's about to score, we're good. I think that's never said in the movie and you're 100 % right.

1:20:50Bill Simmons:Yeah, I needed a little more. It's almost you needed the announcer to come in and like, as always, three minutes for that. I just would have eaten it up. All right. So we have gambling in 1975. Yeah. We know it exists because they're putting the spreads out. We've had football players. There's been gambling scandals. It just felt like an incredible missed opportunity not to talk about lines at all during this movie. And then it sent me down a rabbit hole thinking like who was favored in the last game? They would like FanDuel would have had last man standing bets. And I think Jonathan would probably have been the favorite, but it would have been like two to one.

1:21:26So it would have been like those Tiger years where you could bet the field for a certain number. Jonathan versus the field.

1:21:33Bill Simmons:I would have just banged Jonathan, but then you could also make the case, like they're just going to do everything they can to take him out. I think there was no betting lines. Dude, there's no betting lines because no one had any money. The money was only the executives. No one had money. But there was probably like a stealth poker game with the executives and maybe they had a bookie. I don't know. There's a lot of gambling stuff that should have existed in this. You had any pick and nits or we cover everything? No, we covered them. Okay. Sequel, prequel, Prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable.

1:22:03Bill Simmons:Can we make the Prestige TV case? It's been 50 years. I think that's fair game. And I do feel like there's some cool scripted series in here that I think would take added significance in the mid-2020s. You know, they're making, I'm sure you know this because it was announced and stuff. They're making, you know, the William Gibson novel Neuromancer. They're making that into a series. That's that incredible futuristic thing. If that works, whoever does that show could then just come right in here and do this i think the problem is the rollerball remake was so bad that i think it scared everyone off the ip but let's bring him back is this movie better with wayne jacquins danny treo doris burke sam jackson nell byron mayo tony romo chris consworth daniel plainview long legs or wilford brimley in the firm um do you have you can also throw in anyone else you want in this category.

1:23:00You know, you bring up Enberg a couple times, but I just kept thinking how fun it would have been to just cut to Norm MacDonald talking about this game.

1:23:09Bill Simmons:We should throw Norm in the category. Yeah. Norm belongs in the category. He really does. Because imagine Norm talking about when Moon Pie, like the thing you just did about, oh, so when can you hit the Moon Pie in the head with the spikes? I mean, yeah, I just think that's a little bit, yeah, I just think it would have been incredible. Like Norm would be just top for me. Too much individualism. They would have just killed Norm. So I had, I'm adding John Cazale to the movie. Oh. Because of the sunny ties, but especially after, after when Jonathan says no to Mr. Bartholomew at the party and he comes back out and then Cazale could come over and go, Johnny, you don't talk to a guy like Mr.

1:23:50Bill Simmons:Bartholomew like that. Awesome. And then they do the don't go against the family. But he could also be, his character from um the conversation just fits right in yeah just it's right in the time it's in the kazell it's in the the time frame 75 now you're talking because imagine if instead of maude adam then i agree what if it's merrill walking into that room 1975 merrill get both of them imagine how much better is that merrill like our first movie yeah right after any like 75 merrill right before that yes yeah just one oscar who gets it production design yeah i would i would have said stunts is stunts an oscar it is right now they're giving stunts awards and things but they didn't for years yeah production design's good probably unanswerable questions this one might be answerable jonathan e's last name i think it was evans because at the eyes wide shut party one guy says to the other guy evans is out and i wonder if that means that jonathan evans was his name what are others i've won i've won unanswerable question as if rollerball just keeps going over the next 50 years, how would advanced stats have changed rollerball?

1:25:01Would people have thought, like the three-point shot,

1:25:04Bill Simmons:like people firing from far away, it's a heavy ball. But could there have been like a Steph Curry that comes in who's like, this guy's like throwing it from basically the bottom of the track. He's completely changed rollerball. They would probably add up. Because the thing is, because there were very limited substitutions, if you killed somebody, it's kind of as beneficial to the team as scoring a goal, to your team as scoring a goal. So the advanced that would be more maiming and murder. Murder plus points. It would be like points plus death, right? Because plus, you know, mauling someone so they're off the floor, I think.

1:25:43Bill Simmons:So you think the money ball move, like Jonah Hill comes in and he's like, I've been looking at the motorcycle and it's just the complete inefficiency, We're spending too much time getting the motorcycle guys. And what we really need, what was John Beck's role? What was his thing? The swooper. The swooper. Yeah. The swooper is actually the most important position rollerball. We got to go all in and try to find better swoopers. So sick. I think, yeah, for sure. Then there's this little, so my unanswerable question is, there are two references in it that maybe they're robots. Like in the - Oh, the Androids thing.

1:26:21Bill Simmons:Yeah, they might all be androids. And one says, you know, they're all made in Detroit. And the other says they're robots. You hear these two lines and they're not. But, you know, you wonder if it's like the replicant thing. Like, are they replicants or are they, is it possible? Because, no, I didn't remember this. I listened to some wacky podcasts today and I wish I would credit them. There's some guy who did some like deep dive into the meanings of rollerball. It's crazy. I'll send it to you. I found it like two hours ago. But the one thing is he was talking about this possibility of them being robots and seemed to have some credible argument for that to do with when Jonathan is talking to Sir, the computer guy.

1:27:09I did not pick this up. This guy in this podcast that I can't take any credit. But he says that when he's talking to him, the guy says, I've seen you so many times before. You've come so many times. And the guy was like, because Jonathan doesn't know, because Jon's a fucking robot. And every time he gets destroyed, they rebuild him back. And then he comes to the point where he has this question at the end of his life cycle. I have no idea if it's true, but I love it as a theory.

1:27:33Bill Simmons:Well, how would that explain Moon Pie being in a coma, being kept alive with no vital sense? That is a flaw in the theory. You've poked a great hole in it. Oh, to prove to the players. Oh, you know why? So the players believe it. The player doesn't know he's a robot. um my other answer well do you think the dolan family own the new york rollerball team that's the best yeah i i i hope so because then i hope they go oh and whatever does what we don't get to get this out often does want a word for what happened the next day so Jonathan survives I think we're probably forming a rollerball players union there's probably Donald Fear or whoever somebody's coming in and being like we gotta get these guys some benefits maybe some rules in place that you can't just wipe out the rules before the semifinals does the sport exist?

1:28:38Bill Simmons:was that the last rollerball game ever? I think Jonathan maybe takes the whole society down. That's it. It's just complete chaos. I think so. Yeah. The easiest answer ever for what piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie? I mean, it would have to be the jersey, right? The number six orange jersey. Like, what would be a better thing? That plus a glove. And the gloves? And one of the motorcycles wouldn't be bad. Like a banged up rollerball? Imagine if in your garage you had a rollerball. Banged up? Motorcycle. called that'd be i mean come on pretty great the coach finstock award for best life lesson corporate society is an inevitability quote from john hasman let's go with that what's your double feature choice some bruce lee movie enter the dragon interesting why because of the era like just because i associate it with a time in like my life basically otherwise it's network so i wrote it down earlier, Network's the other one that makes the most sense because one's about media, one's about sports and entertainment.

1:29:45Like, so Network on the highbrow, it's Network. And on the less highbrow, I think it's Enter the Dragon. What's yours?

1:29:52Bill Simmons:I like your paranoid movie thing. I think that was fun. I would have said Longest Yard just because like those are the first two great sports movies. But I do like the idea of doing like Three Days of the Condor or something. Is Brian's song in your mind not a great sports movie? It is. It's a TV movie though. Okay. So it doesn't count. I've seen it 20 times. No, I know, but I'm saying it doesn't count for that reason for you. I still think that's Khan's best performance in any movie. I should have done that as my hottest gig. He's unbelievable as Brian Piccolo. Yeah, of course he is. He's incredible.

1:30:21That movie's, I mean, again, it's for dudes. I mean, that movie's just the best.

1:30:25Bill Simmons:Yeah, it's really old. It's 55 years old. Who won the movie, James Khan? Of course. All right, it's time. Producer Craig coming in. He's been dead silent. I'm nervous. I, uh, I'm, I'm excited that Brian has no idea which way I'm going. And he even thought that perhaps I was going the negative route. Um, I am not, I can't believe this movie was just sitting here and no one told me about it. What the hell I had heard of rollerball. I think it's a weird title and perhaps I had no idea what the movie was about. I was transfixed by this movie. Uh, this, I mean, it's, this is a dystopian science fiction movie disguised as a sports movie.

1:31:08Yes. I think it should be considered like one of the greats. This should be shown in film schools. There is so much going on. There's so much there. You're correct. It's basically gladiators fighting for public entertainment. It's like, maybe it's a little heavy handed. It's so weird. Jewison's making so many weird decisions. It's aged incredibly. I think the tree burning is like fascinating. I thought, I think this desperately, I'm usually not this guy, but I think this desperately needs to be a television show. Like Tony Gilroy turned Andor, like a Star Wars story about like, turned it into like a political story about fascism and imperialism or whatever.

1:31:44Get him Rollerball next. Like I want something at that level for Rollerball. Tony would crush it. Tony would do an incredible job at this. Yep. I thought this movie was unbelievable.

1:31:55Bill Simmons:Wow. I'm so excited. I was so worried that he didn't like it. But I was like, you know, I feel like I know Craig well enough to know he probably liked this. I couldn't look away. It was everything. I want to watch it three more times. It was almost the first time ever I watched it twice before we recorded, just because I wanted to do it again. Wow. Yeah. So what was your most rewatchable scene?

1:32:18I think the argument between, is it Houseman and Khan, while the tree burning is happening, that going back and forth is really electric. And that whole party, I think the whole party scene is the most interesting part of the movie. But also, I mean, the stunts are unbelievable. I can't believe that they're doing that to these, these actors back then, these stunt actors. It's ridiculous. Yeah, the music at the top and the bottom, the Bach. I mean, the whole thing is just, it's so original and unique. And it's like, I love when a director just has his hands all over something. And if there's stuff that people don't like, I kind of don't care.

1:32:52I'm like, at least he just did whatever the fuck he wanted.

1:32:55Bill Simmons:So are you mad we waited seven years to do this movie? I mean, I couldn't have been mad because I barely knew it existed. But I have a couple nits, I will say. Let's hear it. Genuinely the worst jerseys and helmets I've ever seen in a sport. Yeah, that was mid-70s though. I mean - Like if you go back to that era, we just lost the narrative with the way stuff looked. But that's what they thought jerseys would look like in 2008, 50 years in the future, and that's what they gave them? It was just that this weird concept of Koppelman can attest. Like the font that we thought was going to be in the future was that specific like weird font, like very like simplistic.

1:33:35Bill Simmons:Terrible. It looked like high school warmup football jerseys. It's terrible. Yeah, that's a good call. What else did you have? None of the actual guys look like athletes. They look like mechanics. I mean, what are we doing here? Like, these look like a bunch of normal dudes. I guess James Connery's shape. You're making the J.J. Reddick, Bob Cousy argument. These guys don't look like the premier athletes of the world in 2018. I swear I had that written down and I forgot to say it. I noticed that there's that shot in the locker room and there's like four guys who look like louis ck back there i like i don't know what we're doing well but i wondered did they do that because they couldn't get anybody to do rollerball or because then at one point they have the weight training scene and one guy is basically doing this 1984 gymnastics routine on the on the parallel bars and it was but yet all these guys look like plumbers electricians as craig said so i don't know what they were going for with that also man And like back then, men just look different.

1:34:30James Caan in this movie was four years older than I am right now. Was he really? He was 35.

1:34:38Bill Simmons:You could have told me he was 50. 100%. 22. You couldn't give me any age for him. I would have easily guessed 45. Do you agree with me that nobody has ever looked better in a sleeveless white t-shirt than James Caan? Like it's something about his shoulders. Men don't look like that anymore. No. No. You know who looks like, Sometimes you'll get the random little boy that looks like that. You'll see like the three-year-old boy at a party that's built like James Khan. What's that? But nobody ever ages into it. I didn't anticipate this going there. I was going to say, what three-year-old boy at a party are you seeing?

1:35:12Bill Simmons:No, my son, when he was like three, kind of had one of those James Khan bodies for a little bit. But they have, you know what I mean? Like those really muscly little kids. Like they have like the T-build, like the Michael Phelps T-build. We used to joke that my son looked like a 1760s blacksmith. That's hilarious. He would just walk around. He had this hard pot belly and was just walking around like Fred Flintstone. I was going to make the joke that we should do the Lloyd Howell Jr. NFLPA for worst league rep award for whoever the fuck was running rollerball. That's a good one. What did you think of the 70s, babes?

1:35:53great another it's like a women don't look like that either man but it's like a specific look

1:35:58Bill Simmons:and i don't know what it was but i know it's a you know when you see it kind of look middle part long feathery hair kind of like coming out they look like sharon tate a little bit it's like this blue eyeshadow it's just a version it's a version of of uh of michelle pfeiffer scarface thing which was later yeah that was like the tail end of it yeah it's really charlie's angels like if If you go, you could click any mid-70s, Charlie's Angels, Vegas, Three's Company, all of the, every, it's just this look and then it just disappeared. Not sure what happened. So Craig, would you have played a rollerball video game?

1:36:33Absolutely. I still would.

1:36:35Bill Simmons:Yeah, this is some of the best IP nobody's taken. It really is. I have not seen the remake. I won't watch it, but it's been long enough. I think somebody could revive this. And it's so relevant now. I mean, man. Rollerball Fantasy League would have been interesting. Sure. imagine if like you would have swoops you would have had uh assists you would have had goals you would have had takeouts yeah i mean derrick henry and rollerball unstoppable a problem is we only know one uh one player's name really and the other guy's name we knew he's dead so right yeah that's like rollerball free where like the rich paul character comes in and trying to get everybody paid more um all right craig so happy you like this movie uh this is produced by craig as always Thanks to Ronick as well.

1:37:20Bill Simmons:And thanks to Gahau for getting us on the Zoom. Thanks to Koppelman. Great to see you. It's been a couple of years for you on the Rewatchables. So happy to be back. Anything to plug? Got any plugs? No, stuff's coming. Stuff's coming, you know, but nothing to talk about yet, but happy to be back for time number seven on the Rewatchables. And we got to do a quiz show someday. That's the one I'm holding out. Yeah, you're doing it in LA. Yeah, I'll be there for it. We'll do that together. and then rounders too. I'm just going to be dead before it comes up. I mean, you'll be in if there is, if it ever, you know as much about it as I do.

1:37:53We've talked to, how many hours have you and I spent talking about it with Levine?

1:37:56Bill Simmons:Every time we do a podcast, we mention it. Enough time. Craig's ready for it. Let's, okay, we're all in. All right. Great to see you guys. Thank you. Great to see you guys.

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