'Sicario' With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

13:44Chris Ryan:It was Matt Damon in space versus a gritty movie about the drug cartel. In the moment, it was easy to choose Martian.

13:51Bill Simmons:Also, it was a movie with stars, but they weren't stars. They were like that next level down, almost like putting together a really good basketball team without a franchise guy. It was Emily Blunt, Josh Brolin, Del Toro, Daniel Kaluuya. Nobody knew who he was at that point. But it's all Bernthal, who was like the Walking Dead guy at that point. But this is how—

14:13Sean Fennessey:It was very smartly cast. It's the kind of movie that makes stars in a way. Obviously, Del Toro was extremely well-known. had already won an Oscar, but was a perfect use of him. Brolin, you know, had been a part of big movies to that point. You never would be like A-plus movie star, but...

14:28Chris Ryan:This is like Brolin going to another level right here, which is this Everest, and he does the cameo at the end of Avengers this year. Right. And so he becomes Thanos and a giant movie star, whereas I think from no country on, it had been like, wow, Josh Brolin's like really good, and like you should have, like he should be in your movie, and he's an American gangster and milk and stuff like that. But this is when he starts just going to another level. This movie did not get nominated for Best Picture.

14:58Sean Fennessey:I don't think it was even ever really under consideration.

15:00Bill Simmons:Spotlight won it. Big Short, Bridge of Spies, Brooklyn, Mad Max, Fury Road, The Martian, The Revenant, and Room. Good movie here.

15:07Sean Fennessey:Famously a pretty interesting slate in the Spotlight won that year. But like, maybe everybody feels like Mad Max, Fury Road was kind of the way to go this year, that year ultimately. What a great movie here. It was a good year.

15:18Bill Simmons:You know why Spotlight won? This is what I heard. Because they do! Taylor Sheridan, first screenplay ever. He's a frustrated actor. Kicks off one of the most impactful and lucrative 11-plus year screenwriting runs anyone's ever had.

15:35Chris Ryan:Amazing what if here because, you know, Sheridan, famously, like, kind of frustrated character actor, had been on, like, Sons of Anarchy and stuff and wanted to write his own material. This is an amazing first script. I read the script. it's pretty different. Not so much in tone. The story and the dialogue is all in the script. They cut so much. And that is something that I imagine would not happen today if Taylor Sheridan was writing a feature film. Yeah. I would imagine that he would be like, the condition is you shoot this script as is.

16:10Bill Simmons:Well, we should talk about that because this is the key thing that happened.

16:13Chris Ryan:Or it turns into a 10-episode season. Or there's more dialogue.

16:17Bill Simmons:Yeah, it just turns into lioness. Yeah, they just, even for Del Toro's character, the director cut 90 % of the dialogue he was supposed to say because they decided as they're making the movie, it's actually better if he's a little more mysterious and it's the best decision they made. Incredible decision. His character, all the little stuff. I think this is one of the reasons this movie is so rewatchable and so good. All the little things they do to set you up. There's a lot of like show don't tell stuff that you could teach in screenwriting classes. That nightmare that he has in the plane is so important.

16:48Bill Simmons:That could also have been a scene where he's like, yeah, 20 years ago, and he just tells the sob story.

16:54Chris Ryan:In the screenplay, you see the dream. In the screenplay, his dream is shown. Really? Yeah. In the screenplay, the movie opens with a VO of Alejandro talking about Mexico. There's so much more stuff in the script. It's an interesting document to read. It's pretty widely available on Google, online. Sounds like you like this movie, CR. I do. this is a really good bit from Villeneuve about the screenplay and working with Del Toro and it's like Villeneuve said dialogue for me is theater an art for the stage cinema is not about dialogue it's about images and moments and present tense Benicio can convey way more by the way he breathes in front of the camera than any line the way he portrays tension the way you feel when you see him so so much of this movie that's successful in parts that I remember are all like a gesture Brolin will make, like when he's just like too dramatically overreact and he just kind of like puts his hands out a little bit and it's like the hands make it.

17:55Chris Ryan:The pairing it back is what makes it.

17:58Sean Fennessey:I would also take it one step further and say that the movie is not really very interested in psychologizing any of its characters. Like it is not really about explaining backstory, but it's also not even about saying like what could have happened to this person that made them this way? We know specifically that Del Toro's character has that and that's the motivating thing. But the first time you watch the movie, you're not like where I land on the movie, which is that this is Benicio Del Toro's movie. Like that he is the titular character. It is about him. And even though Emily Blunt is our perspective character, it's not about her.

18:30Sean Fennessey:She's just caught.

18:31Chris Ryan:Yeah, it's pretty rare to have a POV character that's not the hero, I think, you know?

18:36Bill Simmons:Yeah, there's, you could say there's a theory with this that she's kind of the audience of the movie and you're introduced to all this stuff through her but ultimately like she can't do anything in the audience I don't mind that theory

18:49Sean Fennessey:it's a really good structure for the movie and really smart and I feel like carving away a lot of Alejandro's dialogue makes that actually more coherent as an idea because if he's talking a lot and is doing VO and stuff then you're like okay so we're watching a Benicio del Toro movie where this woman gets involved in his world as opposed to like a third or two thirds of the way through the movie, you're like, oh, so we're like on Alejandro's mission. He is like the change agent inside the movie. I remember watching it the first time being very confused. Maybe like a halfway point. And now when you rewatch it again, you see like all the intention, but it's one of those things where you're right.

19:27Sean Fennessey:Sheridan didn't have the power back then to say, do my movie the way that you want. You know, I'm not as big a fan of Sheridan's TV shows in part because I feel like he kind of can't get out of his own way sometimes with explaining what he

19:37Chris Ryan:thinks about something well he's gotten to the point that very few writers ever have where it's just like he runs the show i mean movie making is not a screenwriter's business tv is but even tv writers don't have the kind of carte blanche that he seems to when it comes to dictating like yeah we're gonna do 10 hours we're gonna have like if you watch lioness lioness has set pieces that are as expensive as uh the ones that are in that are in sicario once sheridan figured out how

20:06Bill Simmons:a microdose the limitless drug. It was fucking off for that dude. He's running out of pills and then he figured out. Do you think he has limitless higher than 16? There's no question. I think one, so you think it's, you think it's Kate's movie because Kate's the, in the first scene and we're with her the whole time and we're following her and the structure of that. Goldman used, Goldman had a thing about this when he did The Saving Private Ryan. The movie starts with Matt Damon's character going to the cemetery and then the flashback and it flashes back to things he couldn't have known because he wasn't there.

20:40Chris Ryan:Yeah.

20:41Bill Simmons:And it's like the diehard screenwriters, some of them are like, you can't bend the rules like that because if you're telling the movie through the eyes of somebody, you can't then just shift it the other way. That's basically what they do with this.

20:52Chris Ryan:This is also like a rule within mystery storytelling where you have to make a decision whether or not you want the audience to know as much as a character or more than a character. And so Sicario kind of plays with that a little bit because midway through the movie, pretty much when Kate goes to the bar with Reg, and that's when the burnfall scene, we sort of start watching Kate the way that Kate was watching Alejandro earlier in the movie. And there's even camera moves that kind of suggest that, where it kind of shifts POV to Alejandro, and it becomes his mission. And the second half of the movie is really about getting Alejandro to Fausto and all the things that they're going to do to get him through that tunnel and into that car and into that house.

21:34what's your del toro relationship that's a good question usual suspects i guess he really slides under the radar he's i know like two levels below a famous star definitely you're

21:47Chris Ryan:never upset to see him in a movie he elevates every movie he's in he won for traffic i mean right like he's yeah he's a he's he's a face and an acting style that is not um not really in vogue You know, it's like a weathered, older face, a very kind of minimal acting style that's a lot about being quiet and a lot about looks and a lot about gestures.

22:10Bill Simmons:A lot of staring. A lot of staring.

22:11Chris Ryan:He's a very, very good stare. And, you know, like a lot of our big actors now are like kind of glib one-liner machines, and he's not like that. He doesn't want to do that.

22:20Bill Simmons:I actually have a little Del Toro game for you.

22:22Chris Ryan:Okay.

22:23Bill Simmons:Did you name the game? We've never done this on Rewatchables. Yeah, every decade. If you have at least four straight decades with a banger. So he's got usual suspects of the 90s, traffic 2000s, Sicario 2010s, and then one battle this decade.

22:37Chris Ryan:Yeah.

22:38Bill Simmons:Four in a row. And it's like, oh, a lot of people have that. You'd be surprised. No. Like even if you go to Denzel, where it's like Crimson Tide, 90s, we'll give them that. Man on Fire or Training Day in the 2000s. 2010s, Flight, Equalizer. Now we get to the 20s and it's like, all right, Equalizer 3. Kind of out.

22:59Sean Fennessey:he's just not really a movie star. No. He's like a grade A movie actor.

23:06Bill Simmons:But crucial to all of those movies, even though he wasn't the quarterback of the movie.

23:10Sean Fennessey:Yeah, I mean, I worship him. I think he is like one of the most interesting and daring actors. And he is a rare case where you hear a lot of stories about movie stars who get on set and are like, I'm not doing that. And they seem like assholes. And Benicio is very famous for reading scripts, calling filmmakers and saying like, here's what I think this is this is what my gut tells me and and Paul Thomas Anderson and Leonardo DiCaprio have been very open in promoting one battle after another about how much Benicio changed what they intended to do with that movie yeah that the whole Underground Railroad period in that movie that all that stuff is the stuff that he came up with and worked out with PTA basically when he arrived on set because he had no time to prepare because he came right from the Phoenician scheme and they just like kind of improvised it in a period of days and it's the absolute heartbeat of the movie.

24:00Sean Fennessey:And if that stuff isn't in the movie, the movie isn't nearly what we feel like it is. And that is like literally him kind of acting as a writer and coming up with all those ideas for his character. The Sicario stuff is clearly very similar where he and Denis were like, this guy shouldn't talk. And by him not talking, but then he gets like seven lines of dialogue that are the most memorable lines of dialogue in the movie. And he gets to do the coolest shit.

24:20Chris Ryan:Yeah, every line he says is memorable. And even every line he says that's memorable is what he says, the last line he has to Kate, the last line he says to Fausto, you're like, I'm going to remember that for the rest of my life. Craig, you remind me of my son.

24:38Bill Simmons:He drops that twice on her. It's like his only way

24:40Sean Fennessey:to really have a human interaction with anybody. You're asking me how a watch works. You know, like that stuff is just so, because he doesn't talk that much in the movie.

24:47Chris Ryan:To find him would be to find a vaccine.

24:49Bill Simmons:Five decaders, this is the finals. De Niro, Godfather 2, Midnight Run, Heat, Meet the Parents, and Limitless. Sure. Limitless counts. Counts for me. Not The Irishman? I'll give you The Irishman if you want to do The Irishman. Killers of the Flower Moon? Fine. Cruise. Top Gun, Jerry Maguire, Collateral, Edge of Tomorrow, Maverick. Pretty tough to beat. That's good. Yeah. It's a five-banger, five decades of bangers for Cruise. We'll see if he can get to six. Anybody else? Meryl? you know Pacino the 2000s are rough for Pacino you really have to squeeze two for the money in there

25:29Sean Fennessey:what's his 80s pick Scarface oh right that's 80

25:33Bill Simmons:okay and then Stallone has Rocky First Blood Cliffhanger 2000s are Dicey and then Creed but 2000s falls apart

25:42Sean Fennessey:2000s what is it like daylight it's sad how much Stallone makes it before Meryl though

25:47Bill Simmons:well Meryl would have Kramer versus Kramer 70s right pick a movie in the 80s there's like seven of them sure

25:57Chris Ryan:Sophie's Choice

25:58Bill Simmons:yeah 90s Rivers Wild River Wild

26:04Chris Ryan:yeah that's pretty good I'm sure she Madison County yeah

26:06Bill Simmons:good Prada and 2000s I don't know what's 2010s

26:11Sean Fennessey:Iron Lady Post Iron Lady August O.S.

26:14Bill Simmons:County right no when's that

26:16Sean Fennessey:no but it's 2017

26:18Bill Simmons:but I wouldn't put it up there okay we didn't talk about our director third line center on the 1978 Habs. Denis Villeneuve. Those power plays he was killed with Pierre Bouchard and Martin Trombeau.

26:30Sean Fennessey:He's number 13 all-time points scored for the Edmunds Neulers. Great job by him.

26:34Bill Simmons:All-time hockey. Are you an incendies guy? On Sandees. On Sandees?

26:40Sean Fennessey:Never saw it. Yeah. I mean, it's extremely gnarly. It is a really raw bag.

26:46Chris Ryan:His first few movies are fucking disturbing.

26:48Bill Simmons:Prisoners and Enemy is not a...

26:50Sean Fennessey:No, Enemy is amazing. Please don't.

26:52Bill Simmons:Liz loves Jake Gyllenhaal. Did you sit through Enemy with her? No.

26:55Sean Fennessey:Okay.

26:56Bill Simmons:Enemy is about the two halves of us.

27:00Sean Fennessey:And a giant tarantula. What lives inside of us. Inside each man had two wolves. Yes.

27:05Bill Simmons:That was a one-timer club for me. I saw that once. Not going back. That was the one. I do like Prisoners, though, and that will be on the rewatch. I have some bad news for you about CR Month.

27:14Chris Ryan:We're ending with Enemy. Oh, no. You told me.

27:18Bill Simmons:So then he has Sicario. then he does Arrival Blade Runner 2049 two Dune movies and now he's going to do what's his next thing? Bond. Dune 3 and then Bond.

27:29Sean Fennessey:I mean he's on the mountaintop right now. He's in the top 5 dudes. I wrote down style, feel, mood, substance. Yeah.

27:37Chris Ryan:What's missing? Roger Deakins. Worth mentioning. Big shout Rog. Which is our this will be this one and then next week we are doing another Roger Deakins movie. He's out of his fucking mind in this movie. some of the best cinematography I've ever seen

27:51Bill Simmons:I don't know how he gets the soldiers to disappear like that it doesn't seem like it's CGI when they just kind of walk into the darkness together and then they just kind of fade out they just waited for the absolute last second of sunlight

28:01Chris Ryan:it's dusk he also just has that sense of composition that if you watch scenes that any other director of photography or any other director for Villeneuve I think they're both equally responsible for the visual look of this film like even if it's just kate looking at graver or actually there's a good example the scene that i love which is like when graver is talking to all the fbi guys about recruiting kate they shoot from behind matt's head and they hold it there the whole time where they're like hey then this other guy daniel cluey character he went to maryland and he's a lawyer from unc goes no lawyers on this train and they never cut to his face or anything and the way they shoot it is like that's the fucking wizard.

28:48Chris Ryan:It's like God. Yeah, exactly. They're like, what is about to happen? You don't want a lawyer to come? Like that tells you everything about this character and about what's going to happen. And it's their choice to frame it. And you can see all the guys in the frame and they're all like, oh shit. They're just like, we're about to send this girl to her death probably.

29:06Bill Simmons:Do you think Deacon should have done one movie like That's My Boy with Adam Sandler? It's like just to test himself.

29:13Sean Fennessey:I mean, this is a running gag on the big picture, but he comes in as a cinematography consultant on animated movies. And so he has worked on My Beloved Rango. And he was like, worked as a kind of ad hoc cinematographer on movies that have that tone. So he has done that actually. There is like -

29:30Chris Ryan:He dabbles. If you go back to like the 80s and early 90s, some of the great cinematographers, because they were just working way more, it'll be like a run of movies where it's like a camera operator on The Exorcist and like this, this, and this. and it'll be like sorority boob fever. You know what I mean? It's just like, all right. I guess it was time to pay tuition. Hey, man.

29:52Bill Simmons:I have three kids. I got to be working. The Emily Blunt run was Devil Wears Prada in 06. That puts her on the map. And then she has a bunch of misses and near misses and it's just not really going. But then from 12 to 15, five-year engagement, looper, edge of tomorrow, and Sicario. Yeah. She's kind of cemented. and that was the run. I have some casting thoughts on her for a later category. Okay. I think I've landed on, I think she was the right person for this. Because in my head, I think it was more probably Kate Winslet in the early 2000s would have been like the all-timer for me for this. But I think she was good.

30:33Sean Fennessey:I think she's very credible as an FBI agent and a person who's like, I'm trained to hold a gun. I can go into these spaces. I think there's some flaw in the writing of her morality especially in the final third of the movie

30:45Bill Simmons:I can't wait to talk about that okay save that and then our guy Josh Brolin comes on the map 1985 Goonies which had been floated around for the fourth spot in CR month I know I'm available yeah bounced around for 20 solid years just his IMDb is all over the place never quite made it he was a kid actor 2005 Into the Blue I don't know if you guys know this movie Paul Walker and Jessica Alba it's basically a rip off of The Deep Brolin's the bad guy and he's fucking great in it and I actually like this movie but Brolin's like great and it's like all the seeds of the Sicario guy 10 years later is into the blue but then No Country 06 Gangster, W, In the Valley of Vila Milk, all of a sudden he's Josh Brolin and I think this is my favorite Brolin Graver Graver might be It's just attitude and just charisma and you don't know what he's doing you know he's dangerous he seems like he's having an unusually great time for the circumstances Yes and I just really enjoy every minute that he's in this

31:51Chris Ryan:His character's ability to sleep anywhere is very troubling and it's it's very indicative of how comfortable he is with everything that's going on that he's like always like I'm just gonna steal 15 minutes of a nap and it's a great little tick a lot of the hand gestures are awesome the flip flops or the you know the Crocs that he's basically wearing but he's still a guy who can just go into the tunnel with the Delta dudes and is basically like fine going up against that

32:19Bill Simmons:his demeanor has been my professional goal since 2017 I just want to be like him at all times

32:26Sean Fennessey:it's like I used to be a roughneck if I have to get it on I will but I'm wearing flip flops today

32:31Bill Simmons:I almost wore slippers on the lab rewatchables just to lay it down like Josh Brolin does in this movie.

32:38Sean Fennessey:Yeah, he's an actor who just like always should have been 40. You know, and when he was 25, you're like, you're like kind of obnoxious a little bit. And he plays that really well in Goonies, you know, where he's like the overcompensating older brother who's like doesn't really get on board with the guys.

32:51Bill Simmons:He also had a famous dad. He did, yeah. And his dad's not famous to the Craig generation, but James Brolin was like a real dude for a long time. Big star. So when his son was coming up, it was like, oh, that was a little Nepo, I think, thing that was up against him. Yeah, and I think that it took him a while,

33:06Chris Ryan:and it took Hollywood a while to realize how to use him. I mean, in some ways, I think No Country will probably be the movie I associate him with the most, but this is my favorite performance by him, I think.

33:19Sean Fennessey:I think also you can't really imagine, Matt Graver's pretty fucking funny, you know? And he's like maybe Satan, or at least one of Satan's overlords, but he's so charismatic. And whenever he's talking, you're like, That's the truth. There's something really powerful about that. They imbue that character with the idea that he's the only one who really knows how it works.

33:40Chris Ryan:Yeah, but he's got to be charming enough to entice Kate to join them, but also is the guy who will be like, I'm going to put your ex-wife's name on the internet to Jon Bernthal.

33:51Bill Simmons:I almost did this for Hottest Take, but it's not quite a hot take. Josh Barlow in second best career of any 80s child actor. Beyond Leo. Leo's doesn't count, because he's really a 90s child actor. Okay. I had runners-up. Fred Savage? Kiefer Sutherland, River Phoenix, C. Thomas Howell, Bateman, Jason Patrick, The Corys, Charlie Sheen, Christian Slater. I think the only one that beats him is Christian Bale, who counts. Because he starts in 87. Oh, because of Empire of the Sun, yeah. The point is, it's very hard to go from, I'm a working child actor to, I've avoided all the pitfalls that come with being young and famous.

34:32Bill Simmons:There's like a 15-minute,

34:34Chris Ryan:15-year wilderness run for him. Yeah.

34:37Bill Simmons:And then he landed in the arms of my queen, Diane Lane, and everything was fine. Yeah. But yeah, I think Christian Bale is the only one who's, I think, done better. IMDB standpoint.

34:49Sean Fennessey:We were just talking about Heat 2 the other day, though. It's been a little bit of a rocky road for Bale in the last six, seven years. He hasn't worked that much recently.

34:54Chris Ryan:I mean, how much money does he have, though? I think he likes driving like a Toyota pickup and being chill. Bale?

35:00Sean Fennessey:Yeah. Just like you. it's really a Sierra month

35:03Bill Simmons:so we had a soccer game once in like fourth grade at Brentwood and he was on the opposite side on the parents and we won like 6-0 I was like fuck you Batman suck on that motherfucker

35:18Bill Simmons:Oscar nominations you said that to his daughter you said? no I was yeah I was telling him Oscar nominations for cinematography score sound editing how did they not get Del Toro in this? I have no idea well let's talk about it so goofy the bridge of spies guys wins I don't think he's winning. It's probably doing that. Bale for Big Short. Hardy for The Revenant. Mark Ruffalo for Spotlight. Sly Stallone for Creed. It was just a really good category. He still should have gotten nominated. Who are you bumping?

35:43Sean Fennessey:Well, I have a real hot take about this.

35:45Bill Simmons:Sly?

35:46Sean Fennessey:I want Sly out, and I want Harrison Ford in for The Force Awakens. And I also want Benicio in, and I want Tom Hardy out for The Revenant, which I think is such a weird, odd nomination.

35:58Chris Ryan:I know that this is kind of weird, but I would almost, I'm more of a fan of the Tom Hardy and Fury Road than I am in Revenant.

36:06Sean Fennessey:I feel like he's partially nominated for Fury Road in that spot.

36:10Bill Simmons:Do you like Tom Hardy in The Revenant? Versus Benicio in this?

36:14Sean Fennessey:Yeah.

36:15Bill Simmons:I'd much rather have Benicio.

36:16Sean Fennessey:What's your favorite line reading from The Revenant by Tom Hardy? There's like four lines in The Revenant.

36:20Chris Ryan:I can't think of a single line in the movie probably. It's like, oh no, a bear.

36:24Bill Simmons:I've been scouting it for the rewatchables. Revenant? It's a rough watch.

36:28Sean Fennessey:Not a fan.

36:29Bill Simmons:Long stretches of not a lot going on. Wait, I have a couple more things here. $30 million budget made$84.9 million. Spawned a sequel, which we'll talk about. Sadly, no Roger Ebert review because he died two years earlier.

36:45Chris Ryan:Did you ask AI to recreate it?

36:47Bill Simmons:God damn it, Bill. I did. Sorry, Sean. I know you hate this. ChatGBT said he would probably have given it three and a half to four stars.

37:00Chris Ryan:you should start asking chat GPT what would Matt Graver do in like professional management like Chris's contract is coming up what would Matt Graver do

37:11Bill Simmons:he would take it for a while yes just keep going down that tunnel Ebert valued films that wrestled with ethical complexity and he loved intelligent thrillers with political weight he did somebody who is alive right now Wesley Morris, who you just saw. I did. You just podcasted with him. We did.

37:32Sean Fennessey:We had a wonderful pod together.

37:33Bill Simmons:He was in my home last night. He did kind of a thumbs up, thumbs down. Yeah. He called it as much a gym selfie as a movie. Wesley is so good. That's very funny. His style demands that Michael Manns and Kathleen Bigelow's of the world take notice, and they should. And he said every shootout raid in Detonated Bob is a dumbbell thrown to the floor and amped up fatigue.

37:57Chris Ryan:What does that mean, a gym selfie?

37:58Bill Simmons:Like a look what I can do? The movie is like a real flex. It's very muscular. Yeah. Sierra's gone to the gym and watched people lift time to time.

38:07Chris Ryan:You think I've watched?

38:09Bill Simmons:Like as a peeping Tom? Yeah. We don't have to break, right? Can I keep going? Great. We're live on Netflix. Most rewatchable scene. The opening scene.

38:21Sean Fennessey:Mm-hmm.

38:22Bill Simmons:Big music. Big car crash. We have a near-emily blunt murder. we have multiple bodies in the wall. God. We have people throwing up. And then we have another explosion. We have a crawling guy walking toward two arms.

38:39Chris Ryan:Yeah.

38:40Bill Simmons:And then we have her taking the soakwood shower at the end of it. And we're off. The movie has begun.

38:46Chris Ryan:It's one of my favorite shots in the movie is her getting all the blood out of her hair. I think the functionality of this scene is just to make it feel like this is a level of, depravity and violence that even these FBI agents and cops are not not versed in they're just this is beyond it and like all the shots of the bodies in that plastic are just supposed to be like this

39:07Sean Fennessey:is this is a nightmare come to life yeah yeah it's like you're in the mummy or something it's a horror movie and um also that it's a war movie i think it's really important to frame the movie as a war movie like chris's apocalypse now comparison makes the most sense because it is very much about an enemy that you can't see and the only way you can go get them is to go where they are which is

39:24Chris Ryan:a very dangerous place and it's they're they're already they're already conducting a war i mean like they knock down that wall like they i remember that sound the first time i saw this movie and like the sound of the truck hitting the wall and that guy's whole living room coming down and just

39:38Bill Simmons:like whoa what the fuck is this like it's it is a gym it's reminiscent of uh the heat truck in the beginning of hitting the absolutely hitting the bank armor thing um i i'll do this now it's just some questions about the odor of the 42 bodies in the wall and just people hanging out in the house. Probably like 90 degrees in Arizona.

39:59Sean Fennessey:Mm-hmm.

40:00Bill Simmons:I don't know if there's enough room freshener. I'm not sure. Were they vacuum sealed?

40:06Chris Ryan:Yeah. Like, I think...

40:07Sean Fennessey:What kind of

40:08Chris Ryan:bag are you talking about? They're drywalled in. Like, I don't know, like, what drywall can prevent scent-wise. Do you have thoughts on this, Craig? I should have you research this. Yeah. I think that they're bagged pretty tightly, and so I have to imagine that that was a part of their calculus when they were thinking of where to stuff these bodies.

40:25Bill Simmons:I don't know. Ben left some chicken in the fridge last week in a Ziploc bag and it still smelled after like eight days. These are 170 pound bodies behind a wall. Just,

40:35Chris Ryan:I don't know. I think it would have smelled. We have these conversations all the time like with the guys that like the different people in Seven. It's like, how are we not calling? Getting used to the odor?

40:45Sean Fennessey:Maybe your nasal things. Do you think we should end the episode right now? It's such a flaw that maybe you just throw throughout the baby with the bathwater.

40:53Bill Simmons:Next thing I have is the ride through Juarez, which includes Viltoro saying, welcome to Juarez. I was like, thank you. I think Sheridan's borrowed from that in other places.

41:04Sean Fennessey:So you would not have the meeting Graver scene. Matt recruiting her.

41:09Bill Simmons:So I had that in What's Age the Best, but I'm happy to have it here too. It's among,

41:13Chris Ryan:it is not the best, it was not the most rewatchable scene, but it is up there for me. I love that scene.

41:18Bill Simmons:There's so much information.

41:19Chris Ryan:Fine, put it in. Okay.

41:22Bill Simmons:You got your way. Our guy, Jeffrey Donovan, preparing for his shot caller role two years later. Bottles. It's brilliant what they do. Yellow with red dots. Next scene is when they're in traffic. Red and Paula, two lanes over. Donovan said, I'm getting a boner. We have two foursome car shootings plus the ninth guy. That's right. tries to kill Kate. The federal police. This scene's awesome. Del Toro, the way he snaps into action, also he's get your guns out. And then he's just like, it's just great stuff.

41:59Chris Ryan:Let's talk about it, man. I mean, the thing about this scene, I don't even know if I really realized this until I was watching it for this pod, is how you know exactly where they are in relation to where the toll is, where the other two cars are. They're really clear about it, but it also like there's just very few directors who put you in a space and you are feeling the tension because you're like i can see how slowly the traffic is moving the dog is barking it's hot people are staring out their car windows and now these guys are over here and this guy's got a full face tattoo and is like looking itchy and all these guys are like what's the rules of engagement like what's the am i allowed to get out and set a perimeter you can feel every single part of the elements of that scene.

42:46Chris Ryan:It's remarkable.

42:48Sean Fennessey:It's really, really well edited. I don't remember... I can't remember a single time when I felt more tense in a movie theater. It's kind of on par with watching Jaws in my house. Yeah. Where you're like, what the hell is going to happen here? Even though you kind of know what's going to happen, like there's going to be a shootout.

43:05Chris Ryan:I think it's because Kate doesn't know. I think it's Kate's like, we're not supposed to be in Juarez. We're supposed to be in El Paso. Like, I don't really know what I'm doing here. and then this guy's telling me to take my gun out. And it's like she says at the end where she's just like, I'm not authorized to follow. Like, he's a spook, you're a spook. I'm like, I am not a soldier. And they're asking her to participate and then she's complicit. Like, she does something in that shootout that essentially seals her fate with these guys for most of the movie. And it's just, I think because she doesn't know what's going to happen, we don't know what's going to happen.

43:40Bill Simmons:I almost feel like this could be a new rewatchable category, but the guy you mentioned, face tattoo guy. I mean a profile, but I don't know if you could put a scarier guy in the passenger seat. He's just covered, shaved head, itchy as you said. And he's also holding a gun. It's like, I'm positive this guy's up to no good. This guy's like not headed to a soccer game.

44:00Chris Ryan:Yeah, I think if you were going to pick a nit, the cartel could have sent a guy like named Neil who was like working for a sales company.

44:08Sean Fennessey:So in that sequence specifically, that those guys are attempting to just get Guillermo back. that they're like, we know that you've taken Guillermo and we have arrived at this place at the same time. But this is the whole point

44:18Bill Simmons:of why they took Guillermo because they're trying to lure these guys to cause the ruckus to get their momentum going. I think that they are also,

44:25Chris Ryan:I wonder whether or not it's in play where it's like, if Guillermo doesn't make it back alive, better that than he goes to... Right. Provides information.

44:32Bill Simmons:...the states and provides information. Yeah. I'm always rooting for Guillermo because that was my name in Spanish class. Yeah. That was Guillermo. Eighth grade. Nice. Ninth grade. How come you didn't stick with it? Como se llama Guillermo? I didn't stick with it I did seven years of Spanish never took it's not too late to change it couldn't just couldn't get over the hump they always said you had to go abroad and speak it for like two months and I was just like I'm gonna miss sports for two months so you're still like that speak why would I do that

44:59Sean Fennessey:you could say at the top of every episode bienvenidos Guillermo Simmons podcast Guillermo

45:05Bill Simmons:a couple of my college roommates still call me Guillermo actually yeah there you go that's great

45:11Sean Fennessey:incredible Juarez cred

45:12Bill Simmons:Next rewatchable scene. You would do great there. That's it. That's all I got. I'd be very comfortable. Kate and Reggie at the bar into the fight scene. It's hard not to think about CR when you see big bars like this. Yeah. People drinking bottles and smoking and playing pool.

45:30Sean Fennessey:And dancing to country music. Yeah. That's what I think of when I think of CR.

45:32Bill Simmons:I just kind of wish CR was in the background. It's a great bar. It's a great bar, I don't know what to tell you. Reggie busting on Kate. Yeah. About how she's letting herself go. is just really good, really good scene. Their chemistry is really good. The movie kind of needs it. Yeah. Two Brits. Yeah, it's true. He's not Get Out guy yet. We don't really have a history with him.

45:51Sean Fennessey:No. You can see though in the movie now when you watch it, you're like, oh yeah, he's fucking cool. He's charismatic. Yeah, he's got a lot to him.

45:57Chris Ryan:Yeah, it's a nothing part and he's got a lot to him. Then Berthal comes in. Goddamn, Reggie! Berthal puts a lot of Texas barbecue on that accent considering it's taking place in Arizona. Yeah. He's like, Goddamn, you saw me at the softball game?

46:15Bill Simmons:His chest out. He's peacocking big time. Yeah, we get pool and country music. We get dancing. And then we get a pretty heated hookup scene. Followed by her noticing that, wait, this guy has the money clip in his pants. That's probably not a good sign. And then she almost gets strangled to death. And it turns out that Del Toro's been peeping. he's been doing the has the peeping Tom. Yeah. Tommy. Alejandro. Has the peeping.

46:47Sean Fennessey:He has the peeping. You think this was like a binocular situation or was he just right outside the door?

46:52Bill Simmons:I think he's been following her. Did they also hope this was going to happen?

46:56Chris Ryan:I think once she goes in the bank like Graver says like she's like you used me as bait and Graver's like you made yourself bait. You went I told you I'd go in the bank. They're going to be watching you.

47:06Bill Simmons:I put torturing Berthal in the car just because I could have watched it for 20 more minutes. At one point, Del Toro just sticks his entire finger in Bernthal's ear. I don't know how they did it. I have Apex Mountain for White Willys.

47:18Chris Ryan:I don't know that it's ever been more powerful. He's like, ah, goddamn!

47:22Sean Fennessey:I think Bernthal sells it very well. Like, he's really working hard.

47:26Bill Simmons:Do you think he did, like, he bent the finger this way so when he put it in, it seemed... Really seemed like it was in there.

47:31Chris Ryan:Also, Graver's line about, like, I get to decide whether you go to a work camp in Missouri or a kill house like Corcoran. And I was like, holy shit.

47:41Sean Fennessey:It's great. I could have watched that for five more minutes. This movie has a very soft tinge of evil. Like, every 20 minutes, it's like, here's a fucked up thing.

47:48Bill Simmons:The infrared tunnel sneak attack. We talked about it. Alejandro goes rogue. Grabs a guy. Shoots our girl Kate twice. Oh, my God, dude. One of the great... He shot her, but I forgot you're wearing a bulletproof vest and you're not dead, but whatever. um Brolin telling Kate who Alejandro is really good and then she's like I'm just gonna go and she's like that would be a major mistake and then I got the dinner scene it's the dinner scene is that what you're calling it yeah I'm awarding this

48:25Sean Fennessey:swung by Houston's

48:26Bill Simmons:yeah I'm awarding this the big that's like calling Mo Green's death like the massage scene the big Kona Burger Award for best use of food and drink Keep eating Go ahead and finish your meal What were they eating? Like lamb shank or something on the meal? It looked like it was pork roast or something Yeah It looked like the chef had really put some time in it Yeah, I agree Worst dinner guest of all time, CR? Well You know, they're not going to live to give him a Yelp review So I don't know what to say

48:54Sean Fennessey:Good conversationalist, you know Yeah

48:56Bill Simmons:Had a lot of questions Yeah They're just hanging out Talking about the Mexico national team Equal opportunity avenging Angel You know

49:03Sean Fennessey:in any other movie this is the best scene in the movie and this is somehow the second best scene maybe the third best scene in the movie that's kind of amazing

49:10Bill Simmons:the boom boom boom shooting

49:14Sean Fennessey:I don't know how you do that they're like we're killing the kid we're killing both kids that's also something that 99 % of movies just do not do

49:21Chris Ryan:and this is the biggest difference between the movie and the script the script is pretty wonky he's like tells the wife to take the kids and like hope that they become doctors and like they go run off and then he kills Fausto. And it's like you have to have Alejandro completely lose himself in that scene to become like what it is that he's avenging. You know, he has to take from this guy what he took from him. Do you think he could have gone a little harder? How so? On Fausto? So Fausto dumped Alejandro's daughter in a vat of acid, correct? And beheaded his wife. And beheaded his wife and he just gets a bullet to the head.

50:01Chris Ryan:I think that for Alejandro, he's like, Like you watching your family die is the punishment. But even then, he gave him like five seconds to grapple with that. Maybe let it sit for a minute. Fausto also doesn't really make a compelling argument. You know what I mean? He's just sort of like, well.

50:15Sean Fennessey:I think he knows what's coming, so he's just trying to get a shot up right before the end there. It's just one last shot on the Sicario's life. I think it's just because... He's in a hurry? Alejandro's worried that somebody's going to come, so he's got to make quick work.

50:26Chris Ryan:Could have been a little bit more sadistic. The cut to the wife when Alejandro's like, don't forget about my daughter and it cuts the wife and she's like you fucking killed this daughter I can't believe this like you're gonna get me killed here

50:39Bill Simmons:I think Craig didn't think it was sadistic enough he shot two kids and a wife

50:44Sean Fennessey:I brought a vat of acid with me can you guys step in here

50:49Bill Simmons:last one is Alejandro comes to get Kate's confession you are not a wolf and this is the land of wolves now yeah great stare down so what do you have for most rewatchable

51:00Chris Ryan:I have the 21 22 minute sequence of the border crossing. Yeah.

51:05Sean Fennessey:Same. The Juarez and especially on the way back. Me as well. Yeah?

51:10Bill Simmons:Okay.

51:11Sean Fennessey:It is one of the great movie scenes of this century. It is so captivating. It's my hottest take. That's it? We just did your hottest take?

51:19Chris Ryan:No, my hottest take is that this is as good of an action set piece as the bank robbery from Heat with maybe the truck chase from Dark Knight of the last of pretty much my lifetime. But like the last 34 years. I'm not going to fight it. Did we see... We didn't see this together, did we? It would have been in LA. I don't know. It was Grantland Times. We saw The Revenant together.

51:40Sean Fennessey:We did see The Revenant together.

51:41Chris Ryan:We saw a lot of movies together.

51:42Sean Fennessey:That was your last month at Grantland, though. Yeah, that's right. But did we see Sicario together?

51:48Bill Simmons:I can't even remember. I didn't see Sicario in the theater. Oh, interesting. Oh, we had fucking... All hell was breaking loose.

51:54Sean Fennessey:Yeah.

51:55Bill Simmons:Yeah, that was a crazy time.

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52:46Bill Simmons:What's the most 2015 thing about this movie?

52:50Chris Ryan:It's a tough one. It's funny to think about all hell breaking loose in comparison to the action of Ciccars. You're like telling Graver, like, yeah, man, I've had a pretty crazy month starting a new media company. I started a war trying to figure out health insurance you go you go Cigna it's really hard you think you and Graver would get along oh yeah

53:12Bill Simmons:I would hire him to do what? I don't know just get shit done

53:18Chris Ryan:be the third chair on game over I have younger Bernthal

53:25Bill Simmons:it's the most 2015 thing about this movie that's a good one It's a specific Walking Dead era birth off.

53:31Chris Ryan:Pre-Yellowstone Sheridan. Where the screenplays are tighter. What do you have, Sean?

53:38Sean Fennessey:I have rooting for border crossing non-jurisdictional pirate soldier squads attempting to end narco-terrorism with excessive force. Very 2015. Doesn't really feel like something I would root for this year.

53:47Chris Ryan:I also, I mean, of 2015, I had the capacity to be scandalized by the behavior of shadowy elements of the United States government. Yeah. Knowing that from Craig. Pretty much. Even like being surprised that the CIA is involved. Yeah. Right.

54:03Sean Fennessey:Yeah. This movie is almost as close to 9-11 as we are to the release of this movie. Isn't that crazy? Really? Like it's 14 years and 11 years. Like it's really close now. God.

54:14Chris Ryan:What stage is the best? I have a couple. What do you have? Movie starts in brilliant sunlight with the bombing at the drug house. Moves to unrelenting darkness throughout the tunnel, culminating with the tunnel. And then that last shot is just, or the last scene with Caden, Alejandro is all gray. She's wearing gray. The wall is gray. What's happening is gray. It's just a great arc of cinematography matching story. I think the character introductions in this movie are amazing. Caden in the truck following orders and being a soldier, even though she claims she's not one. Matt kind of directing everything.

54:55Chris Ryan:intellectually and then Alejandro I think we see him first as she's pulling up in the jeep and he's like that's my bird dog Alejandro and he's like kind of standing behind the plane a little bit obscured just awesome I love a great character introduction what do you have I mean

55:11Sean Fennessey:drug cartels running entire countries and subverting power structures is aged well um it's still obviously something that is happening right now Mr. Happy you know I know the movie is weirdly way out of fashion, but also very accurate. Like, very accurate at the present times. There's certain things about it. We can talk about in what stage the worst that don't work as well. But then there are a lot of things that are... I think Sheridan's a really interesting cat because he is very, very smart about the way that things are. But he often tries to explain why they are the way that things are in a way that I find a little bit frustrating.

55:46Sean Fennessey:But he's really good at being like, nobody else is talking to you about this right now. And I think it's important that we do talk about it. so you know it's like it's in Landman it's in Lioness it's in Yellowstone it's in this it's in Wind River it's in Hell or High Water like especially in his movies though he's really good at being like there's a problem in the country whether it be on a Native American reservation or in the way that banks take advantage of small town people or the way that the drug war has kind of like subsumed the American military they're really really incisive and he's really really smart about that stuff sometimes he like gilds the Lily like five times, but all those movies hold up really well because whatever he was after at the time is on point.

56:28Chris Ryan:I think that... The easy thing to think is that Taylor Sheridan thinks what these guys are doing is cool. And I think that part of that is because of the weird, ugly beauty that Villeneuve and Deakins ascribe to the characters. I mean, like, it definitely romanticizes to some extent, but, like, guys wearing bulletproof vests and these dudes who know everything and take private jets, you know? But I don't think it's that simple, and I think that this was definitely a time period where he was a little bit more in tune with what was really happening in the world, and maybe, like, now it's kind of drifted a little bit more to where he's like, yeah, it's like pronouns and oil rigs.

57:10Chris Ryan:That's what's really important, but it's like, this was a little bit more like he had his finger on something. I agree.

57:14Bill Simmons:Yeah. And then he just wrote scripts for nine years in a row without leaving an office. That's right. Yeah. I have the title for Age the Best. Sicario is a great title.

57:24Sean Fennessey:Yeah.

57:25Bill Simmons:And he put it in the lexicon now, right? Combined with that, movies that begin with info cards, you're usually in good hands. In Mexico, Sicario means Hitman. But the multiple cards, you always know you're in good shape. If I ever make an action movie, I'm going to have info cards. They called him CR. We talked about the little touches in this movie, like Brolin wearing sandals, the crooked cop when he pours the liquor in his morning coffee. Just a lot of stuff like that. I love that. A lot of stuff like that.

57:55Chris Ryan:There's a moment where when they're driving into Juarez, she's looking at Alejandro's hands and notices he has a wedding band on. And it doesn't get remarked upon, but she just has this great little look at him.

58:09Bill Simmons:Like, I wonder who this guy is. The long payoff with the Mexican cop I like. Yes. My wife picked that up yesterday. I've never seen the movie before. She's like, oh, no. The Haysbert heat character.

58:21Chris Ryan:Like, why are we here? What are we doing with this guy?

58:23Bill Simmons:And then it hits at the end. Yes. And then Bernthal, just in general, he's done this in multiple movies where he's a good guy and a bad guy in the same movie and he can swing. And he also did it in Walking Dead. He's kind of like, this is his move. Sure. It's like, I like this guy. Oh, no, I don't like this guy.

58:40Chris Ryan:It's exactly who he is in Wind River, right? Where you're like, oh, he's going to be the bad guy, right?

58:45Sean Fennessey:He's liking it in a lot of things. I think it's because he has a very good old boy, hey man, I'm here with my buddy kind of energy. But there's something very malevolent about him that pops out really fast.

58:55Chris Ryan:The way that fight plays out is really good because it's unclear whether he's supposed to... Alejandro does not think that Ted is an assassin. He thinks he's just there to kind of see what Kate knows and see if he can get anything out of her. but it's definitely in play that he's gonna kill her and when he's choking her out he seems to be like I didn't want this to happen you know I wanted just to like find out what you were working on and now we've gotten it it feels like a character out of control it's just a great performance

59:26Bill Simmons:I had this later for picking nits with that strangle scene what's the move after alright I had to kill her like how's he getting out of that one? He's Phoenix PD I mean

59:38Chris Ryan:presumably he can figure some stuff out

59:40Bill Simmons:She's an FBI agent, though.

59:42Chris Ryan:Yeah.

59:42Sean Fennessey:I think part of the reason why he was a flawed hire on the cartel's part is that he's not really in control.

59:48Bill Simmons:I was... This leads to my larger point. Cartel HR? Horrible judgment. Yeah. Because that's the other picket net of this is why are you fucking walking around with the cartel money band as, like, your wallet? Maybe, like, get another wallet. Ted.

1:00:04Chris Ryan:Come on, Ted. Striking out in slow-pitch softball maybe not, like, a brain genius. Good sign. Jesus, Ted. Maybe not Brad Stevens.

1:00:12Bill Simmons:why'd you trade Jared McCain Ted you just got a non-modern pick what are you doing great shot quarter where most cinematic shot we covered it

1:00:21Chris Ryan:I got a couple here it's soldiers disappearing into the setting sun or Kate walking across the rooftop to see the fireworks

1:00:28Bill Simmons:I like that one too yeah that's good chess rock world broccolander's award for best character name Fausto Alarcorn

1:00:34Sean Fennessey:no no

1:00:35Bill Simmons:Alarcorn Alarcorn Alarcorn I gotta say though did I call him corn Fausta Alicorn. I think I ordered that last night. Fausta Alicorn.

1:00:44Chris Ryan:I would say that if your nickname is Medellin, you win the Chess Rockwell Award.

1:00:49Bill Simmons:True. Yeah. Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness Award for best needle drop. So every time the evil Jaws score kicks in, which we didn't talk about,

1:00:59Chris Ryan:but our guy Denny was basically like,

1:01:02Bill Simmons:hey, can you make a really scary score like in Jaws? And the guy who did the score was like, I'll try. And then it's just... fucking awesome. It fills them

1:01:16Chris Ryan:It's your guy. Yeah. I mean, this is an amazing piece of music just because you cannot imagine this movie without this. No. It almost wins the movie. If they're listening to Slow Ride, you're just like, well, this isn't working. There's no pop music really in this except for diegetic stuff.

1:01:31Bill Simmons:It's great. Well, this is a big moment because we have a new rewatchables category that I didn't even clear with you guys. Oh, okay. And I think it's a Keeper. It comes from a listener named Abby Soul, who writes, sometimes movies we love carry subtle details or moments that speak to the individual viewer especially. My category idea allows for the Rewatchables crew to share one moment or aspect of a movie that speaks to them more than 99 % of the viewers. For example, Bill loves Sonny Corleone biting his knuckle when he's mad. CR can't get enough of the Eric Stoltz drug dealer lifestyle on Pulp.

1:02:05Bill Simmons:Yeah. So here's my suggestion. the Floyd Gondoli Butter in My Ass and Lollipops in My Mouth Award for something I just enjoy wow what a great award how did we not have this from this film so for this my answer for this for the Floyd Gondoli Award is Gondoli Gondoli anytime a movie with drug stuff and somebody says in the movie there's rumors of a tunnel I'm in. Yeah. I just fucking love knowing that there might be a tunnel because that means we might be going in the tunnel. And that's my Floyd Gondoli. Do you have one, Sean? You don't need to have one.

1:02:49Sean Fennessey:I didn't prep you for this. Is this all one game that you've been using over the last time? Is there really an Abbey?

1:02:56Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:02:58Sean Fennessey:I thought you guys would like

1:02:59Bill Simmons:the Floyd Gondoli. I do. I'm trying to think of a really good answer to this. Well, we'll know for the next one when we do the next movie we do.

1:03:03Chris Ryan:So it's just something you really personally liked from the movie. Something that just resonates with you only. Honestly, a dude wearing a bulletproof vest who has big horn-rimmed glasses. Yeah, I kind of did mine. Big thick glasses frames.

1:03:14Sean Fennessey:I said a movie with a debrief. When there's a debrief in a movie and it's like all these important people are in a room and they're like, this is how it is and this is how we're going to get the guy.

1:03:22Chris Ryan:But when you see a geek and he's got like an AR-15 and a bulletproof vest on and he's like, I'm just hanging out at this Air Force base that's like, we're about to get some shit.

1:03:31Sean Fennessey:But I love, maybe you have this in half-assed internet research, but who the Jeffrey Donovan character is like based on visually is a former ranger who is in Norman Schwarzkopf's security detail who is like a bespectacled dude who is like yoked and very scary but also a big dork. And that fusing those two ideas together to make a character is really interesting.

1:03:53Bill Simmons:You're up with the Sean Fentasy word for stealth homage that gives every movie near the criteria orgasm.

1:03:57Sean Fennessey:Okay, I don't want to overdo it, but there's three. Okay. There's one that's very obvious, which is Del Toro says keep an eye out for the state police they are not always the good guys of course Del Toro was state police in traffic for which he won his academy award in Thief there is a moment where well in the movie Alejandro ignores the maid as he continues clearing the house which is an homage to Thief which is something that Frank does in that movie but the one that I like the most and I think this is on purpose and I don't know is the scene that you just talked about with the Mexican cop pouring booze into his coffee in the morning and his son has his face down on the table and the father winks at him and then the kid winks back, which I think is a direct match to Jaws where Shiders at the table with his son, you know, and they have that moment where they're connecting and he says, give us a kiss.

1:04:48Sean Fennessey:And I feel like that's a nod to that.

1:04:51Chris Ryan:I have one more, which is just when Blunt and Coolia show up at the motel before the tunnel raid. Brolin says, can I interest you in this tasty beverage?

1:05:01Sean Fennessey:Oh.

1:05:02Chris Ryan:And I was like, here we go. Oh.

1:05:03Bill Simmons:Yeah. You have a flex category, CR.

1:05:06Chris Ryan:Okay. I have a special okay, motherfucker for the exact moment when this movie jumps up a level and it's seven levels of okay, motherfucker around... Where? Plus seven? Around the Juarez border crossing. Level one is when Alejandro tells Kate he goes where he's sent and she says, where were you sent from? And he said, Cartagena. Like, okay. Okay, motherfucker. level two is Alejandro neatly folding his linen jacket before the op okay motherfucker are you folding your jacket okay level three the Mexican federal police pickup trucks going over speed bumps and we're in the pickup truck okay motherfucker we're doing this level four Steve saying spotter vehicle left lane I'm getting a boner okay motherfucker level 5 take your service weapon out okay motherfucker level 6 Steve going gun gun and level 7 is just the shootout after Alejandro goes do you want to die and they do you didn't hit us with the loudest

1:06:21Sean Fennessey:okay motherfucker that was great

1:06:27Bill Simmons:now we're up to the Butch's Girlfriend Award for week link of the film this is a pretty strong film it is a strong film I would volunteer this I think you really need to understand the CIA FBI mechanics of what's really going on here to fully understand this movie and I'm not possible sitting in the theater on September 19th 2015 for the first time watching this you can comprehend everything that's happening I do think it's a multiple watch before you really get it.

1:07:00Sean Fennessey:They do give you the one scene where Victor Garber explains what is going on, which is very helpful.

1:07:08Chris Ryan:It's like, I didn't dream this up.

1:07:10Sean Fennessey:Yes. They're like, this is above my pay grade aspect of that speech.

1:07:15Chris Ryan:People who are elected, not appointed. Yes.

1:07:17Sean Fennessey:I think it's very well written. I think Victor Garber is the perfect actor for it. So good in this. I do think that it's like, it comes a little late in the movie and maybe that's on purpose. Yes. But it takes a long time for us to kind of figure out those relationships.

1:07:31Bill Simmons:So basically, CIA can't do assassinations. They can't operate within the domestic United States. FBI gives Brolin's team cover because now it's a cross department. It's a task force. Semi-legal task force. And everything went great until Kate went the wrong way in the tunnel.

1:07:49Chris Ryan:I wouldn't say it went great, but yeah. Well, but you know what I mean.

1:07:51Bill Simmons:like they were about to pull off what they wanted to without Kate being like wait what's happening

1:07:55Chris Ryan:she knows before she goes into the tunnel that she has been used because in the motel

1:07:59Bill Simmons:but if she takes a left we're probably she's not as distraught to be like where's Alejandro

1:08:05Chris Ryan:yeah he had to run he had a fantasy draft before they go in the off yeah Alejandro is it Drake May or what and that first that motel scene she's like he's like we're going on this op you guys stay behind and she's like yeah well we can't fucking go because we didn't bring our stuff because you didn't tell us that this is what was happening so but all he basically needs is her sign off and that's when he reveals that the cia can't operate domestically without fbi attached but i think that would be the weak link just that this

1:08:36Bill Simmons:is a pretty dense movie that of with a lot of themes that are hard to just embrace the way you would embrace some other when you're watching heat you know what's happening in heat the first time you watch it. Heat right there. I think, to me,

1:08:51Sean Fennessey:the weak link of the movie is always, and I think this is a five-star movie, so it's kind of not a big deal, but her still being insistent on doing things the right way, even after she's been in the tunnel, and she's like, I'm going to tell on you. I had that in my biggest nitpick. I'm a little like, okay.

1:09:06Chris Ryan:He just doesn't let her go, like, walk away from that. You know what I mean? Like, it's, it is a nitpick of mine as well.

1:09:14Bill Simmons:What's age the worst? I'll do one quick. and it's weird because she smokes in real life. I didn't like Kate smoking in this movie. I thought she was pretty good, but maybe British. I put a Tom Cruise, which end do I light award for terrible onscreen smoking. I just didn't think.

1:09:32Chris Ryan:Have you ever smoked an Indian Creek? No, what are those? I think they're bigger in the Southwest. I'm not, I haven't. Are they longer, fatter, shorter? No, they're just, they're just like a gas station cigarette. You know, it's like, go get them.

1:09:44Sean Fennessey:What's your policy on smoking mid pod? Well, they can't fucking stop us. We're live, brother.

1:09:50Chris Ryan:We can do whatever. Like if I just pulled out some Indian Creeks?

1:09:53Bill Simmons:I don't know. There's just something… But it's weird because I researched it and she does smoke in real life. But I didn't like three puffs. I didn't like the way she threw it. Probably not still. She's got kids now. But I think back in the day. Plus, she's English. I think she…

1:10:06Chris Ryan:The only time I'm ever like… Reminded that Emily Blunt is probably much more delicate than Kate is when she lights a cigarette for some reason.

1:10:15Bill Simmons:Yeah. Yeah.

1:10:16Chris Ryan:It's like a very cool like way of lighting a cigarette.

1:10:18Bill Simmons:Yeah. I had the handball game that they show as they're driving in. That age the worst? No, I could have used like 10 more seconds. Shouldn't that have been Ed Norton? I was really enjoying it. I was like, this is great.

1:10:30Chris Ryan:These guys are going at it. That would be funny if that was what Benicio was like, welcome to Mars. Welcome to Mars. Hold on. I just want to see what's this point. Yeah, not the hanging guys. Just the handball game.

1:10:39Bill Simmons:We mentioned Crooked Cop Ted wandering around with a suspicious cartel money band in his wallet. and then Saqqara 2 Soldado it's fine don't have the same director or screenwriter you got it

1:10:52Sean Fennessey:got it

1:10:53Bill Simmons:it does have the same

1:10:54Sean Fennessey:screenwriter doesn't it isn't it Sheryl yeah it's Sheryl

1:10:57Chris Ryan:Stefano Salima directed it yeah it's fine it's a cable movie it's a pretty good movie Chris is a big fan it just it deepens the graver side a lot which is which is fascinating to me it's fine it's one of the most

1:11:09Sean Fennessey:evil movies ever made it's fucking diabolical it is crazy I had one more but what did you have for what sigilers

1:11:14Chris Ryan:well when you're watching it and i know it's supposed to be a joke between the two co-workers but like the idea that 2015 emily blunt is supposed to be this like ratty piece of shit that no one wants to date is pretty wild he's like yeah your fucking eyebrows are all out of control you're like all right man that's like emily blunt it's tough um they kind of skirt past the like alejandro's cartagena cartel connections like they i know that he says he works for anybody who will put him in the direction of the people who made him. But I think it would have been a little bit helpful to learn a little bit more about, so the United States government is working in concert with the remnants of the Colombian cartels to reestablish their control of the code.

1:12:01Chris Ryan:That is what we're doing.

1:12:02Sean Fennessey:I do think that that is ultimately what the movie is saying. I think that that's Graver's point of view that that is the approach that the CIA is taking to keep order. Which sounds horrible but there is a significant amount of evidence to suggest that these kinds of things have been done in American history. Sure. So it's not that crazy. I don't know. I don't know if it's age the worst so much as it's like you got to get on board with that idea for the movie to seem credible.

1:12:27Chris Ryan:The only other thing I would say is age the worst is that in the screenplay, Reggie, the Daniel Kaluuya character, his last name is Wayne, which just feels like Taylor Sheridan was watching a Colts game. It was a good name, Reggie Wayne. Or didn't like the Colts.

1:12:38Bill Simmons:Yeah, exactly.

1:12:39Sean Fennessey:Could be. Do you have any? well Juarez which is portrayed as the scariest city on earth yeah was not really happy with the movie yeah and you know Sheridan has said that it was like 2010-2011 when he was writing the screenplay which is when the city was really in very very dire straits with the drug war and in 2015 it was like starting to improve um and its crime rates were changing and then now I just read that it has now fallen out of the top 15 most dangerous cities in the world wow It has fewer than 1 ,000 murders per year.

1:13:12Chris Ryan:Pretty significant if it was number three for a while.

1:13:14Sean Fennessey:Yeah, I mean, it was one of the five most dangerous places to live for like 30 years. And the city has changed a lot. And so because of that, and you can like read all about this in all the El Paso newspapers and stuff, the movie has like, it does feel like more of an artifact of a time for that city. It doesn't mean that the drug war is still happening.

1:13:30Chris Ryan:Maybe that's the most 2015 thing.

1:13:32Sean Fennessey:Yeah.

1:13:33Chris Ryan:Although broadly speaking, El Mencho recently making some headlines. like I think that the violence is still.

1:13:40Sean Fennessey:Yeah, the Mexican drug trade is still very much happening. I think just in general, you know, the drug war itself is like, as the eternal quagmire of American life is still going on. And then we mentioned the Martian and the Walk thing, which is so fascinating.

1:13:55Bill Simmons:My last thing, and it might be a possible new award, but I was thinking about Emily Blunt, the hookup scene with Bernthal. They're really going at it. And anytime I watch something like this, I always think about what it's like for the husband or the wife of the person in the scene. And in this case, I was thinking about Krasinski. Just like, Saqqara premiere. So just to warn you, there is a kissing scene with Bernthal, and then you're watching that on a 55-foot screen. What are your next, like, three minutes like?

1:14:23Chris Ryan:I think it's why he became Jack Ryan and got fully yoked. It's because he couldn't handle seeing that. There's probably something to that.

1:14:31Bill Simmons:What are your thoughts, Craig? I mean, this is why you're here for important questions like this.

1:14:34Chris Ryan:I've never understood how you can get over this as the husband of him. I don't understand it either. No, you can't come home.

1:14:39Bill Simmons:I'm not like a crazy jealous person. I just think to watch somebody really go at it with your wife. This was also supposed to be a nude scene, which they got out of the movie.

1:14:46Chris Ryan:That's even worse. It's why actors date actors, you know? It's like I can understand because I've been in these scenarios. If you get to hook up with Bernthal, I get to hook up with somebody else. If you're not even hooking up too, it's also then he chokes her out. Can you imagine being at the post-premiere party and just being like, hey, man, it's like doctors date doctors because they're the only ones who really knows what it's like. Actors have to date actors.

1:15:08Bill Simmons:Well, I don't know what the award would be, but maybe it's the Movie Theater Cuck Award goes to John Krasinski just watching this going, why? Why are you telling me this is in here? Why?

1:15:21Sean Fennessey:The only good use of AI would be putting Krasinski in the George C. Scott in hardcore scene.

1:15:27Bill Simmons:That actually, that I would enjoy. Then I was trying to think what would be the worst one to be the husband in the theater for, and there's just a lot of candidates, so let's move on. Okay. The Ruffalo Hannah Rubinick Partridge Overacting Award.

1:15:41Chris Ryan:Pretty, pretty understated performance. Yeah, I was gonna say, this is a pretty mellow movie.

1:15:46Bill Simmons:I mean, guys, it's Berthal.

1:15:46Sean Fennessey:Like, let's,

1:15:47Chris Ryan:what are you kidding? Berthal with a finger in his ear? Oh, in the car? Come on. Let me move my head. Yeah. Ah!

1:15:54Sean Fennessey:You have a flex category, Sean. I chose When Would I Have Died, and I wrote down the first scene, the second scene, the third scene, and the fourth scene,

1:16:04Chris Ryan:fifth scene. You die when Matt Graber

1:16:05Sean Fennessey:was just asking guys something.

1:16:07Chris Ryan:It would have been tough.

1:16:08Sean Fennessey:I don't think I would have been able to hang in in this movie. I think I would have bought it in the tunnel.

1:16:13Chris Ryan:How bad do you think two shots to the chest wearing a vest hurts? That would kind of

1:16:18Sean Fennessey:go Dorfler's door in the category. That was what I was

1:16:20Chris Ryan:thinking about.

1:16:21Sean Fennessey:You want to try it?

1:16:22Chris Ryan:Is that like something that anybody can do and like an hour later you're fine? Or is it like you're out for a week? She's still wheezing when she's talking to Graber. Are we talking like broken ribs? Yeah. I definitely think so. she has when we see her in her apartment after he's come back I don't think she's like been on the job it could be a new ringer maybe a new ringer video series the new intern would you shoot people yeah does Kevlar two in the chest

1:16:46Sean Fennessey:two in the chest

1:16:47Bill Simmons:with Craig Holbeck

1:16:50Chris Ryan:truth or two in the chest

1:16:54Bill Simmons:the CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford how to stake a word I haven't really you did read yours I kind of did mine

1:17:00Chris Ryan:the other one I had was just that this movie is like a an excellent allegory for american foreign policy since the cold war that it's like a you take advantage of a strong use of the word allegory thanks brother uh it's cr month i gotta bring bring it uh a crisis or a tragedy and uh you prey on the personal or collective desire for justice among the population or in this case in kate and use overwhelming military force to bring an end to the chaos and violence only to be exposed for having ulterior motives. Not that I'm saying the United States does that.

1:17:35Sean Fennessey:No, you would never. Not on Netflix, you wouldn't say that. Do you have a hottest take? Yeah, the success of Yellowstone is the biggest loss for movies of the last decade. There you go. That's a great hottest take.

1:17:45Chris Ryan:You've been circling this.

1:17:47Sean Fennessey:It's the most emblematic thing. This guy was like, maybe I'll be William Goldman. He was like, just kidding, I want to be David E. Kelly.

1:17:54Chris Ryan:It's like, that's fucking boring. Are there any other examples of that? starting at prestige and premium and kind of like going the other direction. Not that Yellow Sun is not prestige, but you know. A movie screenwriter who then just becomes like a TV writer. I mean, Pizzolatto, I think writes... I'll tell you who's an interesting example is Mike White.

1:18:14Sean Fennessey:Yeah. Mike White. Now, the White Lotus is still very prestigious. Survivor 50s Mike White. Jacked. Jacked.

1:18:23Bill Simmons:It's unreal.

1:18:24Chris Ryan:So proud of himself. Crazy. I would be ripping my shirt off too.

1:18:27Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:18:27Chris Ryan:Did you think that that was related to going on Survivor or was he just like, I'm going to get yoked up? I think he's,

1:18:32Bill Simmons:I think he got yoked up because he's a wealthy guy who was going to be on Survivor and was like, I didn't like how I looked. Would you do that

1:18:38Chris Ryan:if you were going on Survivor?

1:18:40Bill Simmons:I wouldn't go because I have contact lenses.

1:18:43Sean Fennessey:I noticed in Survivor 50, there was a, was it Stephanie who has glasses on sometimes, but not all the time, which leads me to believe that she does have contact lenses there?

1:18:52Chris Ryan:I was, I think, are you reacting to the not being allowed to have contact lenses? I just don't feel like that. I feel like I'd have an eye infection the first week.

1:18:59Sean Fennessey:Also, the allergies.

1:19:01Chris Ryan:I would just flip out because of the nicotine thing. Yeah, it'd be chuffed in.

1:19:05Sean Fennessey:If you could bring us in, you would go on Survivor?

1:19:07Chris Ryan:I would just give a vote at first because by like hour nine, I would be like motherfucking people.

1:19:12Bill Simmons:You can't find out what's going on in sports on the island either, right?

1:19:15Chris Ryan:Yeah, but I think I would. Being on Survivor has to take a little bit of perspective.

1:19:19Sean Fennessey:Tatum's coming back on Friday night. So wait. you can't take 35 days off from the Celtics you can have a steak unit

1:19:26Chris Ryan:or find out who won self-sixers yeah I would be trying to win the challenges what if that was your letters from home your letter from home was just Thursday February 9th Celtics 104 Nets 89 I would have told my wife you would have told Kerry fit as many scores as you can onto one page dear dad The Patriots signed out Pierce. Oh, my God. You finally have a big play receiver. And you're just sobbing. I knew Tatum was coming back. Everybody else is like, I'm doing this for my mom. Oh, man.

1:20:05Sean Fennessey:If you go on Survivor and... It's just sports. No, the episode where, like, family could visit, you should have Chris come. Just put the info.

1:20:12Chris Ryan:SG, what the fuck? He could update you on everything. You guys traded a first for A.J. Brown. He's like, no! You're not going to believe what Yasmin did on the season finale of Industry.

1:20:22Sean Fennessey:I've been circling the five feet. Remember that scene? Yasmin is now Jelaine Maxwell.

1:20:28Bill Simmons:You just spoiled Industry. Sorry, guys. My hottest take. Benicio Del Toro doesn't get enough credit for being a legendary stick man. Oh. Yeah. Never mentioned when they talk about... Is that a thing known about him? The big celebrity ladies man. Seriously dated Valerie Galena in the late 80s. The lady from Rain Man. Yeah.

1:20:54Sean Fennessey:The lady from Hot Shots. Claire Forlani in the mid 90s.

1:20:58Bill Simmons:Chiara Mastrioni, late 90s. Daughter of Catherine Deneuve. Sophie Dahl in the early 2000s. Dated Catherine Keener, Sarah Foster, and Kimberly Stewart. Also dated Heather Graham in the late 90s. Had flings with Alicia Silverstone in the mid 90s. Lindsay Lohan in the mid 2000s. in Scarlett Johansson in 2004. Benicia just keeps it quiet like in Sicario. Just takes care of business. Nobody knows what he's up to.

1:21:24Chris Ryan:I hope they saved this for his Lifetime Achievement Award. Yeah.

1:21:26Bill Simmons:Lindsay Lohan? Yeah, just solve. You can find all of it on Google. Did they do a film together? I just think he was in the circles. He was hanging out.

1:21:35Sean Fennessey:Yeah. He starred with Alicia Silverstone,

1:21:37Bill Simmons:Excess Baggage, you may recall. Once you get vetted by a couple, it's just you're off when you're Benicia.

1:21:42Chris Ryan:And she's in Alligator, right? With him? Isn't she the wife in Alligator?

1:21:47Sean Fennessey:Reptile.

1:21:48Chris Ryan:Reptile, sorry.

1:21:49Sean Fennessey:Yes, Reptile. Have you seen Reptile on Netflix? Really good. Very, very like, I think you would like it if you haven't seen it. Benicio is a murder cop.

1:21:57Bill Simmons:I haven't seen it. It's on my list. Yeah, it was like kind of critically reviled but Chris and I

1:22:01Sean Fennessey:had a text message one night and it was like, you see Reptile? Yeah, bro. We were like, yeah, it's pretty fucking good. And it's like sneaky.

1:22:07Chris Ryan:It's like two and a half hours long.

1:22:09Sean Fennessey:Yeah, it's very long.

1:22:09Bill Simmons:There might be another reason I didn't see it.

1:22:11Chris Ryan:When you want your spring break to feel like And your kid's pool day to feel like. And your hotel bed to feel like. Ooh, and room service to feel like. Because at Hilton, hospitality feels like.

1:22:30Bill Simmons:Your cabana's ready. Would you like fresh towels?

1:22:32Chris Ryan:It matters where you stay. Book now at Hilton.com. Hilton, for this day.

1:22:40Bill Simmons:We're leaving today and entering a world of Mickey Mouse waving. Princess meeting and greeting. Lightsaber clashing.

1:22:49Sean Fennessey:The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror dropping. Banshee flying. Space Mountain launching. Galaxy rewinding. What's the whole death of galaxy rewinding?

1:23:00Bill Simmons:Fireworks igniting. World of Other Worlds. For whatever you love. Infinite worlds await at the most magical place on Earth. Walt Disney World Resort. Casting what ifs. Josh Brolin turned down the film because he had just done Everest and then big shot Raj Roger Deacon sent him an email imploring him to join and Brolin changed his mind he said stop being an asshole he said come on mate that's all I have for casting what ifs we need 10 more years then it'll be like Leo DiCaprio

1:23:32Chris Ryan:do you have or do you want to wait but I was curious whether you had some alternatives for Blunt

1:23:39Bill Simmons:I really didn't and I looked hard and I looked at all the best actress, best supporting actress nominations, tried to figure out the ages and all that. Could have come up with a better one because you go like Anne Hathaway, I don't see it. Amy Adams, no. Like you go on through and...

1:23:58Sean Fennessey:Well, there's a big sliding door here, which is that she doesn't do Black Widow for Marvel and Scarlett Johansson does it.

1:24:05Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:24:05Sean Fennessey:And is there a world where that's reversed and could Scarlett Johansson be...

1:24:11Bill Simmons:I just think Scarlett Johansson by 2015 has built up so much leading actress, sexy cred, that I don't think you could just buy her in this movie out of nowhere.

1:24:23Chris Ryan:Also, Emily Blunt benefits from Edge of Tomorrow coming out a year and a half before. Yeah, she's actually an actual star. You buy her physicality. Totally. Yeah.

1:24:30Bill Simmons:I do think, though, if you time machine Kate Winslet in like 2005 and put her forward 10 years, that's the perfect one. I think this would have been, and it's a little like the Mare of Easttown character. a tiny bit, like the beaten down. I think she would have been great. But I think she's a little older at this point. Because this character needs to be what? I think she's like 30.

1:24:49Chris Ryan:Yeah, it feels like 30. She's been married and divorced in this movie, but yeah.

1:24:55Bill Simmons:Best That Guy Award. Jeffrey Donovan is not eligible and neither is Victor Garber.

1:25:01Sean Fennessey:Maximiliano Hernandez. So what else is he in? The Mexican cop. He's in the Marvel films. He's in Hydra.

1:25:06Chris Ryan:Oh, is that the guy who talks to Alejandro and is like, I'm sorry about your kid. No, no, the cop. Oh, Silvio. Yeah, Silvio. Yeah, the bald cop. You guys do realize that 99.9 % of society could not name Victor Garber, right?

1:25:17Bill Simmons:Yeah, I think the real answer is Victor Garber.

1:25:20Chris Ryan:We're at a kind of a famous stage actor

1:25:22Sean Fennessey:who was on Alias for like 10 years. But could they say that's Victor Garber? I think it's Victor Garber.

1:25:27Chris Ryan:Or they say that's the guy from Alias. Right. I think it sadly is Victor Garber. That's Sidney Bristow's dad.

1:25:33Bill Simmons:Dionne Waiter's award is Bernthal, I think.

1:25:38Chris Ryan:I got Donovan. I have Donovan too. Over Bernthal? Donovan's like, I have gonorrhea and I'm like the world's greatest killer. Like, and he's in three scenes. I'm with Sear.

1:25:48Bill Simmons:I voted for Bernthal, but I got outvoted.

1:25:50Chris Ryan:When they're about to waterboard Guillermo and he's like, I'm going to step out of the room. He turns the camera off. It's like, there's most chilling shit. What's going on in that scene? There's like questioning about what he's actually doing. What Alejandro's doing when he gets up close to him. I think it's supposed to emasculate him? Is it intimidation or does something actually happen? Oh, no. He's not going to do anything sexual to him. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah. No. I think he's going to waterboard him. You mean just like drop his balls on his head? What do you mean? Like, if you read the Sicario Reddit thread, a lot of people think he like sexually assaults him.

1:26:26Chris Ryan:Oh. I didn't know that. No? I thought it was putting his crotch in his mouth. Sexually emasculating him? You think that would be

1:26:32Sean Fennessey:crossing the line for Alejandro? Yes. Not the waterboarding or mass murder?

1:26:37Chris Ryan:Well, and the idea was that Not the child executions. Reddit was speculating. People really think that? Well, he brought in the water jug to pretend as though he's going to go waterboard him and that's what the cameras see. And then when they turn the cameras off, he does something else. Because there's no water going down the drain. Oh, okay. Yeah. I showed the drain deliberately. I don't know. I guess that's fair. I didn't think that. I didn't think that's why they were...

1:26:59Sean Fennessey:It's all in play with Alejandro. Sure.

1:27:03Chris Ryan:That's interesting though, Craig. Thanks for bringing that to our session.

1:27:05Bill Simmons:There might be sexual assault. I think he would have brought the sisters in though. From Sean Shane? Yeah, I think he would have come in and he said, I could be a real friend to you. Do you think he should be able to jump from movie to movie? No water. I don't know.

1:27:19Chris Ryan:Does it, in my mind, I thought, I guess I thought I heard water.

1:27:23Bill Simmons:CR's done for the podcast. Wow. He's just blue. He's like,

1:27:26Chris Ryan:He's like, I don't know if I like Alejandro as much. Yeah, now he's really like disappointed me.

1:27:30Bill Simmons:Now I'm disappointed in a recasting couch director city. Instead of Juarez, can I float Philadelphia? Real nice. They're trying to get him beat out of Philly?

1:27:40Chris Ryan:Really classy. CR month and you're already taking shots at me?

1:27:45Bill Simmons:Philadelphia. Trying to get A.J. Brown to an AFC East team? Uh-huh. Craig, you have a flex category. Do we have Craig's special camera or no? Fucking jerk off.

1:27:57Bill Simmons:CR month, he could just yell at me.

1:27:59Chris Ryan:I want to implement a new tool for the show. And, you know, you guys are the preeminent counsel for Hollywood. From the producers of AI, Roger Ebert? Yeah. As the Hollywood czars, I think, you know, tomorrow, March 3rd, is the NFL franchise tag deadline.

1:28:16Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:28:16Chris Ryan:Franchise tag, you can prevent a player from getting a second contract somewhere else, and they have to stay on your team. I think there should be a movie franchise tag. And for Sicario, the movie comes out, you guys get to vote. Oh, they want to make Sicario 2? I'm sorry. There is literally a franchise tag on this movie.

1:28:35Bill Simmons:Oh, so it's like a committee almost like in college football. There's 10 people on it.

1:28:39Chris Ryan:When I heard about the sequel, I was so disappointed. I'm like, ah. And it's like, oh, you want to make Devil Wears Prada 2? Sorry, it's been franchise tagged. Five movies a year that you actually get to put the stamp on. No sequels. Wow. A literal movie franchise tag.

1:28:52Sean Fennessey:You are the rare, full-throated Sicario 2 defender.

1:28:55Chris Ryan:I would say I'm closer to the guy on the Jags who was like, I'm moving up to get Traverse Hunter. James Gladstone. And that we didn't go far enough. Like, we should already be on Sicario colon Capos, which is what the third one's supposed to be called. We should be... There's no reason that we have not gotten a third Sicario movie yet. If you're going to break the seal, like, we should be on Sicario 4 by now.

1:29:18Bill Simmons:But why aren't we just on the best version of a prestige TV series with Sicario? Like, why aren't we in, like, season 8?

1:29:24Chris Ryan:Benicio Del Toro's not going to do that.

1:29:27Bill Simmons:Is it? He's not? I don't think so. He's in one battle after another. I think Bob Thornton would be in three TV shows at this point. Yeah.

1:29:35Chris Ryan:I think he likes hanging out and playing music and making some money. I think we could have gotten Del Toro. Del Toro's not doing T-Mobile ads. I'll do it.

1:29:42Sean Fennessey:I'll play Alejandro. I can do it.

1:29:45Chris Ryan:Now that you found out that he's a sexual deviant as well as a child murderer.

1:29:50Bill Simmons:Yeah, it seems more approachable. So what else would you have franchise tagged from this year? It's like a franchise cross-off.

1:29:57Sean Fennessey:I mean, Sinners 2 is coming.

1:29:59Bill Simmons:Yes. That's going to happen. Come on. That's going to happen. That's a tag.

1:30:03Sean Fennessey:I mean, not next. It's going to be Twilight Zone and Black Panther 3. But, I mean, there's just way too much money there.

1:30:10Chris Ryan:So you think they'll set it in the 90s where they're hanging out? I think they should. Like Barbie, you franchise tag. I don't want to see another Barbie. They only made Barbie to make more Barbies. You have to franchise tag sinners. Franchise tag Oppenheimer? No. I want Oppenheimer 2. What's Oppy 2 about? He's just like teaching after that, right? That would be a great movie.

1:30:31Sean Fennessey:It's like Dead Poets Society. It's like kicking and screaming,

1:30:34Chris Ryan:but with Oppenheimer.

1:30:36Bill Simmons:I wouldn't franchise Tag Limitless. I could do like three more. Yeah. Did you watch the show? No, the show, it wasn't. Who was the star of the show? I don't know. But Coops is like in it briefly, right?

1:30:48Chris Ryan:Yeah, he doesn't stop by.

1:30:50Bill Simmons:Half-ass internet research, the border crossing scene, they had to build a full-scale replica of the Juarez border because they couldn't figure out how to pull it off with all the days they would have to stop traffic. They asked for permission, right? And they were like, nope. Yeah, can't do it.

1:31:06Chris Ryan:Can we close the U.S.-Mexico border for multiple days? They're like, actually, you can't.

1:31:11Bill Simmons:The thermal vision shots were filmed with an FLIRSC 8300 thermal vision camera. That's what Gahaw is using for us today. Not added in post-production. That would have been sick if this was infrared. Yeah. They only had it for one day.

1:31:26Chris Ryan:That's a good gondoli award. Night vision. There's night vision. on them in.

1:31:30Bill Simmons:Yeah. Yeah. A props man heated the soles of his shoes to see the footprints. I love that. Yeah, great stuff. The word Sicario derives from the Latin word Sicarius, meaning dagger man. And then, Emily Blunt got so sick from food poisoning in Mexico, she required IV fluids between takes to make it through scenes. And then, there's a part in the tunnel scene, after the tunnel scene, Brolin's telling Kate about Alejandro and he pauses for a second or two and talking about her going up the wrong tunnel and he said in the interview he paused because he forgot his lines and he literally froze for like two seconds but then in the cut it actually worked and they kept it.

1:32:12Bill Simmons:So great. Yeah. For their fight scene Bernthal assured Blunt that he was an experienced boxer and she could hit him at full strength which she did. She does really take a shot at him. Yeah. The Wild Pony Bar was in Los Lunas, New Mexico 29 miles south of Albuquerque, 425 miles from Tucson, where it was supposed to be. Closed down in 2015 after a fatal gang shooting occurred between the Bandidos and the Poor Boys. Can't have nice things. Now it's called the Horseshoe. It's a public meeting place. I don't know what a public meeting place means. I don't know either.

1:32:43Chris Ryan:I saw that and I was just like, do we have to go investigate this? What's happening? The library watchable's there. Public meeting, like... Like, smoke into your creeks and drink beers?

1:32:52Bill Simmons:Or is it like, let's have a... You just kind of meet? Folk dancing festival. Like a fantasy baseball draft there? Should we do fantasy baseball this year? Please no.

1:33:04Sean Fennessey:Oh, for the ringer? Yeah, I'm thinking about it. You're not invited. You're not invited. I got dead last. Why am I not invited? Heifetz is not invited.

1:33:14Bill Simmons:Oh, you just want to leave those guys out because you get screwed. Can't have Heifetz. How do you get screwed? No, for the sake of the narrative. Apex Mountain, would you say Blunt Hair or would you go Quiet Place? I would say... After Tomorrow. Or Edge of... I would say The After Tomorrow.

1:33:32Chris Ryan:It's probably Quiet Place. I think Quiet Place This is a more interesting... I know that she's an incredible actress.

1:33:39Sean Fennessey:I love her. It's kind of sad I think we're... What's been going on in the last five years. I don't really like the choices she's been making.

1:33:45Chris Ryan:Do you like Oppenheimer in Smashing Machine?

1:33:46Sean Fennessey:I think she's the worst thing in Smashing Machine. Straight up. Oppenheimer... I want to see her

1:33:51Bill Simmons:have fun in movies. I really like Five Year Engagement. I think she's good in it. But I don't want her to be in Jungle Cruise.

1:33:56Sean Fennessey:That's... I don't... Yeah. I have not enjoyed that stuff.

1:33:59Chris Ryan:She's good in Fall Guy. I like that movie.

1:34:02Sean Fennessey:She's fine. She is okay. I think it's chemistry. They tried. That's a swing and a miss and I like that they tried. Did you see Project Hail Mary yet? I did. I liked it quite a bit.

1:34:12Bill Simmons:Heard it was good.

1:34:13Sean Fennessey:Yeah.

1:34:14Bill Simmons:The goss is back, man. Fucking goss. Yeah, it's really good. Juarez.

1:34:20Chris Ryan:Apex Mountain? Probably not. I mean, represented on film, I think it, you know, put it on the quote-unquote map. As a movie location, maybe.

1:34:29Bill Simmons:Brolin, I think it's that run after No Country when he was W and he was in like nine movies at once. I would make the argument that this is Apex. I would if it made$200 million, but it made$89 million.

1:34:39Chris Ryan:Because at the end of this year or whenever Ultron comes out and he does the cameo at the end of this year, I think it's Infinity War.

1:34:44Sean Fennessey:You do?

1:34:45Chris Ryan:Yeah.

1:34:46Sean Fennessey:I think the level of success of that Avengers movie and him being the big bad that the whole thing is centered around and every character says his name. Now, granted, he's CGI in the movie, but it is unmistakably Brolin, even though he's like a giant purple alien. I don't know. Can I tell you a story really quickly? Is that a Marvel movie? It is, yeah.

1:35:07Chris Ryan:It's, you know, Thanos, and he puts the glove on. Do you know the glove with the gems in it? Sure. The Infinity Stones, the Infinity Gauntlet. Totally. I was driving down Santa Monica yesterday, and I was at a red light, and a gentleman who'd probably seen better times in his life was riding a bicycle past me, and he stopped on the sidewalk and reached down for something, and I was like, wonder what this guy's up to. And he picked up the glove from the... The Infinity Gauntlet. Yeah, the Infinity Gauntlet. And he was like, looking at it and I was like, what if it's the real gauntlet? Like, what if this guy just found the stones?

1:35:43Chris Ryan:No, but there was something in it. Like, I think he was doing a drug deal. But like, it was pretty amazing. Was he hiding heroin in it?

1:35:49Sean Fennessey:Whatever he found in there, he was excited.

1:35:52Chris Ryan:Yeah.

1:35:52Sean Fennessey:And it was Brolin? Yeah, it was Brolin. Yeah, it was Brolin.

1:35:57Bill Simmons:Cartel movies? Yes. Trying to think, what's the competition? I mean, Scarface, of course.

1:36:05Chris Ryan:It had been largely Narcos, you know what I mean? Like, I can't remember when Narcos debuted, I think after this.

1:36:11Bill Simmons:I would have Scarface over Sicario. Just because it has a longer tail. It's 43 years of people watching Scarface versus 10 for Sicario. Okay. But 10 years from now, I'm willing to look at it.

1:36:24Sean Fennessey:Yeah, I mean, do you consider, like, Carlito's Way a cartel movie? Not really. More of a New York crime movie. There's not a lot of great movies set in this. I mean, obviously, Vincent Chase's masterpiece, Medellin.

1:36:38Chris Ryan:Yeah, that's true.

1:36:39Sean Fennessey:Forgot about that. Medellin.

1:36:41Bill Simmons:Who could forget? Vats of Acid as a plot device. Oh, God. I don't know if we've topped it. I'll say Tim Burton's Batman. Oh, yeah. When the Joker goes in.

1:36:51Sean Fennessey:Oh, good point. That's right.

1:36:52Chris Ryan:Del Toro? I guess Traffic is his Apex Mountain because he wouldn't ask for that. Traffic made more money than this probably, I would imagine.

1:37:01Sean Fennessey:Yeah, probably Traffic. He's been pretty much dope for 20 years now though. Like every time he shows them, they're like, oh hey, Benicio movie.

1:37:09Bill Simmons:Kaluuya? No. Dead people buried in walls? Probably. Can't think it's a bit more effective. I really like when the bullet and he's looking through it, he's like, what the fuck? Burn Thawne, though. Tunnels. Great Escape? It's either this or Fast Five.

1:37:28Chris Ryan:You don't think the Great Escape is more significant than Fast Five?

1:37:35Bill Simmons:Or the tunnel in Shawshank? Mount Tunnelmore. Oh, Shawshank? Yeah. Fast Five, Great Escape. Sicario, we're done. One battle. Mount Tunnelmore.

1:37:45Sean Fennessey:Leo crawls through the tunnel under his house. That's some good tunnels. dinner scene executions uh yeah i mean the menu right there's a lot of executions there and then uh jeff donovan i still have shot caller since you mentioned jeff uh you mentioned the

1:38:09Chris Ryan:dinner scene execution yeah and uh it is your month can i just throw one more flex category in there yeah i did want to talk about this a little bit which is the i used to fuck guys like you in prison award for craziest quote telling a guy time to meet god before you kill his family is like as hard as it gets yeah you want to say apex mountain for hardness at the dinner table like about like if you imagine i'll tell a quick true story that just happened two hours ago i

1:38:34Sean Fennessey:pulled up to your house and uh i was shoveling a salad into my face so that i could get some food in me before this recording and parked right outside the place and uh car rolls up next to me drops its window it's Chris he turns to me it's this time to meet God and he drives away

1:38:52Chris Ryan:there's also a really good I used to fuck guys like you in prison quote when the Delta guy holds Reg down when Graver and Kate are going at it and he just goes just lay back and let it happen baby you're just like what uh cruiser Hanks I don't know

1:39:14Sean Fennessey:So, Hanks as Graver, Cruz as Alejandro.

1:39:18Chris Ryan:Cruz as Alejandro.

1:39:20Sean Fennessey:Oh, doing like the collateral Cruz? Yeah, doing Vincent.

1:39:24Chris Ryan:I'm trying to imagine him saying you were in the Land of Wolves now.

1:39:27Sean Fennessey:I think he could do it.

1:39:28Chris Ryan:You're in the Land of Wolves now, Kate.

1:39:31Sean Fennessey:He couldn't sell the South American aspect of it, obviously. Cruz as the birth all part? Wow.

1:39:37Bill Simmons:Cocktail Cruz? Yeah, but that's Frank T.J. Mackey. Yeah. That'd be pretty good. I don't think there's place in this movie for Hanks. He could just be Brolin. He could. He could. This is more Cruz than Hanks. Scorsese or Spielberg Scorsese. Yeah. Best hang, worst hang. Brolin, best hang.

1:39:56Sean Fennessey:Graver seems kind of fun.

1:39:58Bill Simmons:Yeah. Graver, I would definitely get beers with Graver. I almost had Kate for worst hang, but she's pretty fun at the bar. Kate would be like, let's get some Indian creaks, man. Let's go.

1:40:07Sean Fennessey:She just needs to be in her element. You just don't want to get into an argument with her about jurisprudence. you know she definitely has got some hang ups about who gets to do what

1:40:15Chris Ryan:smoke cigs yeah

1:40:16Bill Simmons:think she's a Broncos fan just that area in you know one of those like definitely seemed up tight but the bar you just saw a different side yeah those are some of my favorites back in the day it's like oh favorite what really home just to hang out with like those pool tables uh picking nits how did the Mexican guy miss Emily Blunt in the beginning in Arizona oh she opens the door and he's where craig is and just completely misses her yeah it's like you have one job you're in a fucking cartel with a gun the federal guy the guy when she opens the door and he shoots at her and she kills him you'll find out soon with two shots with craig holbeck

1:41:00Chris Ryan:coming up next i thought that uh he might be aiming for the delta guys we oh i guess he was shooting because he shoots out the window yeah he he's a bad shot at the wild pony uh kate orders

1:41:11Bill Simmons:two beers it's a pet peeve of mine for all movies and TV when people don't say the beer which McLo Bolcher would have been great because we love McLo Bolcher but I'm always like when they're protecting the integrity of we can't have spot like you're doing all this other stuff in a movie and it's like you have to draw the line in integrity just have her say two beers nobody's ever ordered two beers what was the primal fear

1:41:33Sean Fennessey:fight that we had though where it was like was it the usual what was the order that he does at the bar and you guys were like this is not correct I was on the opposite side of you guys

1:41:41Chris Ryan:Yeah, you were like, I would love to be able to say the usual, and I get like an ice cold martini or something. But we were like, this is her shit.

1:41:46Bill Simmons:But we make up names, all these things in movies. Just make up a name of beer. So like, give me the Amarillo, Amarillo Light. Great, okay. Just give her the Amarillo Lights, and we're ready to go.

1:41:57Sean Fennessey:So this is really more like you have an issue with the prop master. He should have been working a little harder.

1:42:01Bill Simmons:It takes me out of the movie. When somebody has two beers, I feel like I'm watching a movie.

1:42:04Chris Ryan:Everything about the movie is so authentic, except for somebody being like, two beers. What do you think she likes to drink in real life?

1:42:10Bill Simmons:oh she's definitely pounding light beers oh yeah yeah with shots yeah tequila couple shots Michelobol boiler maker yeah 90 calorie light beers but with shots and she definitely didn't eat all day that's very attractive yes didn't probably didn't eat the entire day

1:42:28Chris Ryan:after she is had a near death experience with Bernthal she's so fucking haggard yeah dark circles under her eyes her hair is all oily and she's smoking a cig in the bathroom, I'm still like, let's go. Dana Wheeler-Nicholson Award. I'm just like all the draft picks for that. At the end of the day, she looks like Emily Blunt. That's what I'm saying.

1:42:52Bill Simmons:Yeah, they can't change it. Well, that leads to another nitpick I had. Would you really have a cigarette right after you've almost been strangled? I feel like I'd wait six hours. Yeah, but when you really smoke, the cigarette comes after everything. Like when you're really about it. I almost had the life choked out of me. Do you guys have another... What were the cigarettes called?

1:43:10Chris Ryan:I would have a cigarette after the Heimlich maneuver if I could. You know, like, yeah. I don't know.

1:43:14Bill Simmons:I think she would have waited.

1:43:16Sean Fennessey:I'm not going to make the inappropriate comment.

1:43:18Bill Simmons:I had Kate trying to arrest Alejandro in the tunnel. It was ridiculous. It's the worst part of the movie. And then Alejandro forced Kate to sign the document saying it was all legal. Just sign it and then tell them after he put a gun to my head and forced me to sign it. And I didn't really mean to sign it. And here's what happened.

1:43:34Chris Ryan:Also, just strange that after the Victor Garber character has said they have the authority to do whatever they want, basically, that they're like, this entire thing rests on Kate signing a piece of paper. Now, that whole piece of paper might incriminate Kate, which also may be why she's like, I don't want to sign this because I didn't do anything wrong.

1:43:53Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:43:53Chris Ryan:But, yeah, there's like a weird end of this movie where Matt allows her to leave the tunnel area despite saying, I'm going to expose this entire operation. And also Alejandro is like, I have to kill you if you don't sign a piece of paper that we could easily just like doctor.

1:44:13Bill Simmons:She's calling him Al by that point. What do you have for nitpicks?

1:44:16Sean Fennessey:Well, what's Ted's plan? Ted has been following Kate so that he can seduce her, so that he can get the information that the cartel wants about what she knows because they spotted her going into the bank. Right? That's the setup there. But she, did he know that she was going to go with Reggie, who was a pal of Kate's and who could serve as an intro? Is that just good luck?

1:44:44Bill Simmons:It's the kind of mistake you make when you write a movie not realizing people are going to watch it 35 times. Yeah. It's just a little strange. Trying to get in with her and get closer to her. I don't think he's trying to solve everything in one night, but maybe become like a steady hookup and then he can get information.

1:45:00Chris Ryan:Okay. The same thing happens with what's Alejandro's plan. So he's following them. So if Silvio, or did they know Silvio is going to be at the end of the tunnel? Like, what happens if Silvio's not there and there are no cars there? Like, how does he catch up with Manuel?

1:45:17Bill Simmons:Once they kidnap Guillermo, they know they have like two days, right? Before they destroy the tunnel. Yes. So they're like, immediately it's go time.

1:45:24Sean Fennessey:Yeah, but then once you get there, how do you find Manuel?

1:45:26Bill Simmons:Yeah, like if...

1:45:27Sean Fennessey:I guess you just, you have to assume you can get a car. Sure. Right? And you're going somewhere because they're tracking Manuel.

1:45:33Chris Ryan:Right. Once he crosses into Mexico, yeah.

1:45:35Sean Fennessey:But having a police cruiser is like the ultimate hack for nailing Manuel. Right.

1:45:42Bill Simmons:How did he know it was dinner time? Could have come like right after when they were playing video games. That's a great note. She's really, really fortunate. Yeah. She shows up.

1:45:52Chris Ryan:Walks up, the kids are playing Madden.

1:45:54Bill Simmons:She's like, I'll let them finish. It's the fourth quarter. Are you running the spread?

1:46:02Chris Ryan:I was going to say time to meet Bill Parcells.

1:46:06Bill Simmons:Any other nitpicks?

1:46:08Chris Ryan:We covered a lot. I think we've hit all of them. Sometimes it feels like Graver will be candid with Kate when it's convenient for the movie but why would he be like that? I agree with that. He explains a lot of stuff

1:46:20Sean Fennessey:he doesn't have to explain.

1:46:21Bill Simmons:Do we cover everything?

1:46:23Chris Ryan:Yeah, I think so.

1:46:24Bill Simmons:All right. Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable. Prestige TV would work for this. And I actually think it could evolve with the news and kind of what should have happened with Homeland and they just kind of fucked it up. But Homeland, they got so... Brody was so popular that it kind of fucked up the show and then they brought it back.

1:46:45Sean Fennessey:Every season could have been a different kind of conflict.

1:46:47Bill Simmons:Yeah. It just should have been new season, new everything.

1:46:50Sean Fennessey:Yeah, that's... Like 24.

1:46:51Bill Simmons:24 would do that. Very realistic.

1:46:56Chris Ryan:The sequel...

1:47:00Chris Ryan:there is a sequel. I'd take a third, but I would also watch, albeit, I think I would go to hell for watching it, Alejandro, Mexican prosecutor and Colombian cartel assassin, like the prequel to how he gets hooked up with them.

1:47:12Bill Simmons:And also - I think that's that Patrick Dempsey show. I think that's the premise. What's that one called? Memories of a Murderer.

1:47:19Chris Ryan:Oh, and he's like a hitman?

1:47:20Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:47:20Chris Ryan:I would also watch Kate, Small Town Sheriff after she like moves out of Arizona and he's like, go to a small town where the rule of law still exists. I want the Jeffrey Donovan show. Yeah, well, that's essentially two.

1:47:32Bill Simmons:Him just getting boners?

1:47:33Chris Ryan:Yeah.

1:47:34Bill Simmons:Cracking wise. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Fergie the florist, Zane Lowe, or somebody else CR? It is CR month.

1:47:41Chris Ryan:I'm getting too seduced by Zane, but I got to do it. Zane talking to Ted before he goes into the bar. Ted, man, here we are. You've been low, man. You struck out in slow-pitched softball in front of the entire Phoenix law enforcement community. But you're ready to rise again like a Phoenix brother. And here you are. You got Kate in there. Just make sure you don't use the rubber bands of the Sonoran cartel, brother. That, now that I hear it out loud in my head, sounds a little like Danny Archer in Blood Diamond. Like I'm saying TIA.

1:48:20Sean Fennessey:Diplomatic community.

1:48:21Bill Simmons:We gotta add Danny Archer to the possibility. I'm sorry, Zane.

1:48:25Chris Ryan:You're not, you're not that big. But yeah, that was what I had. tell me about your Jenny 10. Oh my God.

1:48:32Bill Simmons:I thought for sure we're getting Wayne. Wayne must be officially retired. Sounds like it.

1:48:36Chris Ryan:I think Wayne's got to take a minute. Wayne's got to, we got to put Wayne in the bullpen. I mean, I would use Fergie, but there's a lot of chemical way in this movie. So does he, when they,

1:48:45Sean Fennessey:when they, when Benicio's finger goes in his ear, does he say,

1:48:48Chris Ryan:God damn.

1:48:51Bill Simmons:He kind of does. He does go Wayne for a second. Just one Oscar who gets it. I would.

1:48:58Chris Ryan:go del toro person del toro or deacons yeah johan johansson for the score i don't know if there is enough music but it's such a distinctive it's very effective probably in answerable

1:49:14Bill Simmons:questions is this a better movie if kate shoots alejandra in the head at the end no no but is it

1:49:24Chris Ryan:a better movie if the last shot is alejandra walking away from the apartment building and not going to Mexico one more time? Like, did you think that the soccer game was like a little too?

1:49:32Bill Simmons:I almost did nitpick for this. I didn't like the soccer game. I thought the quality of the play was low. Interesting. Kids are in Mexico. They start out. They start from the middle. It does the kick. Not the best pitch. Fucking defender misses it. Yeah. Completely. It's like, you guys, just your national sport. You couldn't have even controlled one pass. You guys are 11-year-olds.

1:49:52Chris Ryan:You're playing on dirt. Yeah. So it was probably a little bit. I didn't like the quality of the game.

1:49:55Bill Simmons:I thought I would have done a second take. You going to the World Cup? It's very possible I will. Why?

1:50:02Sean Fennessey:Just curious. Okay. Are you going? Maybe. We have it. You think we won't have it?

1:50:08Bill Simmons:Should I ask the sweets?

1:50:13Bill Simmons:Probably, and it's... So you think not a better movie if she shoots Alejandro? No.

1:50:17Sean Fennessey:For the record, I like the ending of Mexico because I do think that the movie is ultimately like nothing has changed. Nothing has been fixed.

1:50:23Bill Simmons:I like the ending.

1:50:24Sean Fennessey:I think it's a very strong point. And I love that.

1:50:26Chris Ryan:And these are the real people this is impacting.

1:50:28Sean Fennessey:Yeah, and the Haysbert point you made about Heat, where it's like you have to have these threads in the movie that show other worlds. It can't just be like two trains on a track ready to hit each other. There's other stuff that is affected by this. I think it's actually a very graceful thing that isn't in the other Sheridan movies that Villeneuve brings to it. Yeah.

1:50:44Chris Ryan:I mean, weirdly, the only character you really care about in the movie is Silvio and his son. Like, that's the one you actually have the most connection to emotionally. I care about Graver.

1:50:52Sean Fennessey:Yeah, we know that.

1:50:54Bill Simmons:Unanswerable questions. is there a worse Halloween costume than dressing up like the body bags on the wall from Sicario? Probably not.

1:51:01Chris Ryan:I've never thought about it. Who are you guys?

1:51:03Bill Simmons:I'm one of the body bags from Sicario. Cool. Jesus Christ. Want a beer? It's got to be number one, right? I guess being the little girls from The Shining would be bad. Yeah, that would be pretty tough. That's a pretty common one. You'll see that on about, yeah.

1:51:18Chris Ryan:Burnt to a crisp Gabriel Byrne from Red Sair.

1:51:23Bill Simmons:Did Kate remarry? did Kate ever date again? Does the Wantanay Award what happened the next day? What happened with Kate? Let's really talk about the next five years. I think maybe she and Ted got back together. I think they worked it out. Yeah, they figured it out. Bailed them out?

1:51:35Chris Ryan:But he's in the kill house at Corcoran.

1:51:36Bill Simmons:She's visiting him. Did Kate move to a desk job? What are her next two years look like, CR? Other than a lot of nicotine. That's a...

1:51:45Chris Ryan:I just... I would like to believe that she still believes in the power of law enforcement. So, like, you know, maybe she's a cop somewhere. No, she works at a post office. Come on. Yeah. Or she's like got a desk job. Selling knitting on Etsy or something. Knitting.

1:52:00Bill Simmons:Yeah, she knits bras. Unanswerable question. It's the land of wolves.

1:52:06Chris Ryan:Are you a wolf CR? I don't think you can answer that about yourself. It's like giving yourself a nickname. Somebody else has to do it? Yeah, you guys would have to tell me.

1:52:15Bill Simmons:Do you have any unanswerables? You got them all. Okay. Anything? What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie?

1:52:25Chris Ryan:I would want the rubber band from the bankroll and just leave it on tables and see if you notice.

1:52:31Bill Simmons:I think it's the Bernthal rubber band. That's what I had to. The fake cocaine bricks in the car when Alejandro kidnaps the cop and there's all those bricks. You could talk me into that. It would be pretty cool if that was my backdrop

1:52:44Chris Ryan:for this month. Just fake cocaine bricks? It was just keys of cocaine behind me.

1:52:50Bill Simmons:Coach Finstock, Mr. Miyagi were best worst life lesson you will doubt everything we do but in the end you'll understand I think that's gotta be the answer right it's bad it's been high

1:52:59Chris Ryan:Phil working for you

1:53:00Bill Simmons:thanks best double feature choice

1:53:04Chris Ryan:Sicario 2 Soldado if you want to just keep the Graver and Alejandro train rolling I chose Abel Ferrara's King of New York oh

1:53:11Sean Fennessey:another like vicious movie about the way things are I have fast five okay

1:53:19Bill Simmons:Brazil Bill. Tunnel. It's the happier, entertaining version of Sicario.

1:53:26Chris Ryan:Oh, shit, Bill.

1:53:27Bill Simmons:And I would start with Fast Five, and then I would go to Sicario. Where would you be? I would go Happy.

1:53:32Chris Ryan:Triple Feature. Oh, no, Double Feature. You want to start. Fast Five, Sicario. Yeah.

1:53:38Sean Fennessey:That's good. And then Furious Six after that? No. Okay. Just those two. What do you have for Double Feature? Probably Happy Gilmore.

1:53:46Bill Simmons:It's a really funny movie. Who won the movie? I actually think there's an obvious choice for this

1:53:53Chris Ryan:I'm going to make a case for Taylor Sheridan I don't think I have that written down here I had Benicio written down but the more that we talked about it first of all it sends him on this incredible trajectory where he's arguably one of the most powerful people in entertainment right now

1:54:10Bill Simmons:that was who I had and I think it's the obvious winner because he literally won the movie it jump starts a 11 year and counting career that Sean now detests.

1:54:19Sean Fennessey:Well, I wouldn't say detest it. No, you kind of said it.

1:54:22Bill Simmons:He just thinks it's a... I think it's a waste of skill. Screenwriting talent. Yeah. Should you do the Chaz Palminteri speech to him? Wasted talent. There's nothing worse than this. But I think that some of his filmmaking experiences

1:54:34Chris Ryan:like making without remorse and having that get chopped up and stuff. I mean, I think he's probably like, I want control over my scripts.

1:54:42Sean Fennessey:I totally understand.

1:54:43Chris Ryan:Is that my camera?

1:54:44Bill Simmons:Taylor shared it. Don't stop what you're doing, man. I love your work. Do you think he listens? No. Do you think he listens to pods? No. You know why? Because he's writing like 10 pages a day for seven shows.

1:54:57Sean Fennessey:I had him on the big picture in 2017 for Wind River, but he's the only guest who's ever called in by cell phone. Was he cool? Wow. He was pretty cool, actually.

1:55:05Chris Ryan:When you watch him on the videos for Sicario, for the featurettes, he seems a little bit chiller than he does now.

1:55:13Bill Simmons:Yeah. That was your only cell phone? I had Alton from the real world call in once on the cell phone in year one of the BS report in 07. And at one point he bought cigarettes. He's like, hold on one second. And then he's like, can I get a pack of camels?

1:55:27Sean Fennessey:Alton, who is, of course, the greatest athlete of the 21st century.

1:55:31Chris Ryan:Didn't Buecher and Steine Moe used to call in on cell phones while they were walking around Dallas and stuff?

1:55:35Bill Simmons:Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why we had to eventually stop that combo. Yeah, it wasn't great from a cell phone standpoint. A three-man weave, dude. How do you do a three-man weave with a cell phone? That's the thing. We didn't know any better back then. He was Amadeus, dude. He was just conducting it. I know.

1:55:48Sean Fennessey:He was just figuring it out in real time. Masterful. Those were also, me and CR would text about those pods. Be like, did you hear the three-man weave today? Pretty fucking awesome.

1:55:58Chris Ryan:It would be the three-man weave, Chad Ford. Yeah. God. Obviously, Sal. Who were some of the others that I was just like this? Jacko. Jacko. Jacko elite guest. Jacko had a great run.

1:56:10Bill Simmons:The Yankees.

1:56:11Chris Ryan:I remember the first time I heard Lombardi talk about blue chips. I was like, this is blowing my mind. Like, I'd never considered this.

1:56:19Bill Simmons:Who'd you have for who in the movie?

1:56:21Sean Fennessey:I wrote Benicio down, but I thought that was a very compelling Taylor Sheridan case. It's clearly Sheridan. Craig, your thoughts on Sicario?

1:56:27Bill Simmons:I'm surprised no one said Denis,

1:56:29Chris Ryan:or not even with the Just One Oscar. I even feel like we talked about it.

1:56:32Sean Fennessey:This is the lowest grossing of his Hollywood movies. This is not like a movie that put him on the map. Like, prisoners put him on the map, and then I think Arrival is where he elevates.

1:56:42Chris Ryan:but what all you guys talked about with how much longer the script was how much they cut out of it how they kind of actually that much longer like pretty much all the plot beats and a lot of the dialogue is in this screenplay they cut lines so like a lot of alejandro's lines were given to graver or they get cut from the movie in the opening scene you said is initially of alejandro killing somebody right and it doesn't doing a voiceover about and they cut the dream that i don't know i feel like there's even a part it's the need tighten the screws on this in a way that makes this borderline a perfect movie and it takes it from a pretty good movie to a perfect movie.

1:57:14Chris Ryan:Yeah. Like a good example is like at the end of the screenplay Alejandro actually says the last title card about like Sicario's where go back to like ancient Jerusalem like expelling the Romans. He says all that and it's like this is really

1:57:29Sean Fennessey:awkward. Soldado has more of that energy. Yes. It's a little you can kind of feel Sheridan's words more in the screenplay. It's a very good point. I think he was already on the train to becoming who he was going to become. This movie become, you know, like I said, it's still my favorite, but I think a lot of people would say Arrival is his best movie. I think the Dune movies are beloved now. He's had a really cool career.

1:57:53Chris Ryan:I go back and forth between this and Arrival.

1:57:55Bill Simmons:I don't think this movie is nearly as big as the Dune movies have been for him.

1:57:59Sean Fennessey:Definitely not.

1:57:59Chris Ryan:Yeah.

1:58:00Bill Simmons:And especially with 25 and unders, like my son had never seen Sicario and I don't think any of his friends. I think it's in that perfect sweet spot of beloved but not it's also like you can discover it which is the best thing about it have you are you a prisoners

1:58:14Chris Ryan:fan yeah yeah also i was wrong thinking back i did not see this in the theater because i saw i remember seeing the martian did not see this watched it on my laptop and i think i was 19 or 20 and i i remember leaving it kind of underwhelmed because i think i went in thinking it was a bigger action movie fast paced and it's a little bit slower than that yeah upon rewatch last night on the TV blasting the speakers, lights off. This is like the best movie ever made. It's so fucking good. I mean, he can make... No one's better at aerial shots right now than Denis. Those shots of Juarez. Affleck has given up.

1:58:49Bill Simmons:He's like, I thought I had the helicopter corner for a while.

1:58:51Chris Ryan:You can watch a car on the freeway from above for like a minute. All those shots have ideas too, man. Yes. Like so many of those drone shots that people do now are just transition shots and they'll be like, all right, here's a cityscape.

1:59:03Sean Fennessey:It's usually one lonely car on a lonely road going over a forest space. But just giving you, it's not really Chandler, Arizona, but the very beginning of the movie when you see the kind of like Pueblo town almost, this like suburban kind of, it's kind of like the inlet in the RIP, you know, where it's like almost like an abandoned suburb that just exists only to house drug money. The RIP has a lot of Sicario vibes. It does.

1:59:27Chris Ryan:There's a shot on when they're in the private jet that they've requisitioned to go to the Air Force Base. the shot of the shadow of the jet kind of rippling over the landscape. It's just fucking crazy, dude. Yeah, you hold your breath this entire movie. Also, we didn't do the category of what's the perfect age to see it. I know, I forgot to set you up for it. The perfect age to see this movie is not 19. Like, you just, you couldn't, you can't grasp what they're trying to say. And even now, it's like I'm now just being like, oh, this movie means so much more. And you understand the subtext so much more because nothing is very deliberate in this film.

2:00:02Chris Ryan:It's all kind of something you have to read into. So that also probably played a factor in why as a 20-year-old, I was like, pretty good.

2:00:10Bill Simmons:I forget to set you up at the top about it's 200 and... It's two hours flat. Two hours flat.

2:00:16Chris Ryan:I was shocked. I would have bet my life this movie was two hours and 25 minutes. This type of movie is always two hours and 25 minutes now. Remarkable that it's two hours flat.

2:00:24Bill Simmons:So was it on the Horlbeck scale where you think every movie has to be 100 minutes? It's plus 20. there's not a lot to cut out of this movie

2:00:33Chris Ryan:well the only thing you could cut out is the Bernthal stuff which probably saves you 10 minutes I like it it's also like that binds her to Alejandro it's like almost why she follows him down the tunnels because she's like I need to know what this guy is about I don't think there's anything to cut there's kind of two different categories of movie there's like the 100 minute types of movie and then there's the 2 hour kind of movie where I think most 2.5 hour dramas now could be 2 hours and then there's a lot of comedies and rom-coms that are 2 hours that should be an hour 40

2:00:59Bill Simmons:I will say this if you were forced to cut the studio's like we're not releasing unless you cut five minutes I would cut all the stuff with the cup and the beginning and the end and the soccer Sylvia I just think that you need everything else for the plot that's like a luxury that you could still have mostly the same movie but I really like having it I just think it's so grounding for the story it makes the scene

2:01:22Chris Ryan:which I don't even know what we talked about when Benicio's sitting in the backseat of Sylvia's car and making him go to Manuel. Yeah. And he's like, you know, run your lights and tell him to get out of the car. You're a very good police officer. It makes that way more tense because you're like, we've spent this whole movie

2:01:36Bill Simmons:with this guy. Yeah. Well, that's it for the first round of CR Month. We have five movies this month. Next week, we're doing Fargo. Yeah. Week after, just announced we're doing To Live and Die in LA. Sean's going to be in even though he's in like full Oscars thing. We're trying to kill Sean this month.

2:01:52Sean Fennessey:I can do it. I just rewatched it. I'm very excited.

2:01:55Chris Ryan:We were saying outside we could probably start to live and die in LA rewatchables like right now. Like just do it blind? Yeah. Do you want to announce the other project?

2:02:04Bill Simmons:No, because I'm not positive that's this month. We're going to do a sixth thing, but it's either going to be a mailbag or the mystery project. Then we have two more, which we haven't decided on yet. We're constant negotiations.

2:02:15Chris Ryan:Yeah.

2:02:16Bill Simmons:We have the last one. LA Confidential is the fifth one. Yes. I mean, I guess we didn't announce that one. We just did. How does it work?

2:02:23Chris Ryan:Is Chris pitching you on the movies? Does he have you viral control?

2:02:27Bill Simmons:He can ultimately decide. Oh, wow. Thank you. I don't think I've ever gotten you to say that. So the fourth one. Well, I still have to prove it. I need to decide. I need that. The fourth one. So the third one. The boundaries haven't moved. Does that count as a one for us, or do people want that one? People wanted it. People were very pumped out. So we still have a one for us card for the fourth one, essentially. Or we could just go nuts.

2:02:52Chris Ryan:Well, I mean, the streets really want a couple of big titles, but I think we have to hold Hunt for October for October. There's nothing like doing Hunt for October in the fall. For the Phillies playoff run. Yeah, exactly. So we're scouting a couple.

2:03:06Bill Simmons:I'm really honored to be a part of this. CR month? Yeah. Well, every month of your life has been CR month since like 2006. But a joy and the gift that keeps on giving. Greenwald said it's been CR month for him since 1996. 30 years. Yeah.

2:03:19Sean Fennessey:Yeah. So we're getting Greenwald for the last one. You know, the universal approval rating. Like that should be his other nickname. It's right before the fall.

2:03:27Chris Ryan:I peek here and then everything goes down.

2:03:29Sean Fennessey:But I'm getting you redacted, unredacted out of Epstein. So now it's all going to come to light.

2:03:34Chris Ryan:It's just Epstein being like, this guy, CR, loves heat.

2:03:37Sean Fennessey:Chris wrote that scene in Sicario where Alejandro sexually assaults him.

2:03:42Bill Simmons:Well, we have heat in the background. What language is that? Unepico de Crim...

2:03:49Chris Ryan:It's Spanish, dude. Didn't you take Spanish? Is that Spanish?

2:03:55Sean Fennessey:That could be a bunch of languages. I don't know.

2:03:58Chris Ryan:You can tell me that's Italian. I think it's Spanish.

2:04:01Bill Simmons:I think it's probably Spanish. The why is I think the giveaway. We're not doing heat. Way to go Guillermo. We're not doing Hunter for Red October. No. We're not doing aliens. We're not doing aliens. Is heat… Because we're going to do aliens this summer. Yes. Because it's the anniversary. Yes.

2:04:16Sean Fennessey:Okay. Okay. So no Hunter for Red October. No aliens. No five heat. Yes. We'll cross those off.

2:04:21Bill Simmons:and the fourth one is going to be one for us-ish.

2:04:25Chris Ryan:But people have asked for the revise, but I think we're going to hold on to that. No, because I think we, yeah, we're going to hold on to that one. In case Jamie Foxx wants to do it.

2:04:35Sean Fennessey:Is Ted Sarandos watching right now, do you think?

2:04:37Bill Simmons:Probably not. He probably can't believe he just got$2.8 billion to back out of a deal.

2:04:45Chris Ryan:He's like, you're telling me I get$2.8 billion and these three guys? Yes!

2:04:51Sean Fennessey:Is Heat's tagline an epic of crime and obsession? Does it say that

2:04:55Chris Ryan:on the American poster? It's an LA crime saga is the tagline. Interesting.

2:04:59Bill Simmons:There you go. All right, thanks to Craig Coralbeck, thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as well. Thanks to Jack Wilson, everybody behind the scenes. It was very fun

2:05:06Chris Ryan:doing a Netflix Live. Yeah.

2:05:08Bill Simmons:We had no real...

2:05:09Chris Ryan:Thanks to your gardener.

2:05:11Bill Simmons:Yeah, thanks. You almost ruined the beginning of the pod. And we'll see you next week with Fargo on CRMUD. Thanks for watching.

2:05:48Chris Ryan:We'll see you next time. So put that fork down. Try the new wraps today in app or at order.sweetgreen.com. Available at participating locations only.