‘Sneakers’ With Bill Simmons, Kyle Brandt, and Joanna Robinson

9:14Joanna Robinson:First husband, Johnny Lee Miller. Yeah, he was out. I feel like that's going to be Joanna's double feature choice, like 90 minutes. No, but 95. Like, three years after this, 95 is Johnny Mnemonic, The Net, and Hackers. Hell yeah. Like, we're three years in front of this, like, hacker movie boom.

9:27Bill Simmons:I did think that this was a waste of a theme month because The Net is one of the funniest movies of the 90s now. It's absolutely hilarious.

9:35Joanna Robinson:I think Hackers is too.

9:36Bill Simmons:All that disclosure we've already done, but that was also a movie that's really funny with how they envisioned where the internet was going. Search through the files, yeah. Sandra Bullock in the trailer is like, they've got my name, they've got my phone number, they've got my address. Yeah, and she's freaking out. Right after Speed, I think. Just going for it.

9:54Joanna Robinson:There's a scene in The Net where she has a laptop and it's like five inches thick on her lap on the beach. And I was like, okay, all right.

10:02Bill Simmons:In five hours, she loses every single thing about her life. It's just gone. I don't even think you could do that now. So sneakers creates a new genre. I think this is a new genre for 92. The cyber caper. Yeah.

10:14Joanna Robinson:I think there are elements of it that feel new. It's not like the first hacking movie.

10:18Bill Simmons:What was the first cyber caper? It's sneakers, right? What else would it be?

10:22Joanna Robinson:Yeah, I don't have a better answer for you. I think it, the thing is, it's that it's a hacking movie. It's a paranoia movie. It's a comedy.

10:32Bill Simmons:Well, don't leave out the, it's a post-Cold War.

10:35Joanna Robinson:It's a post-Cold War. It's a heist movie. You feel the, you feel the. It's a con movie.

10:39Bill Simmons:It's kind of a little victory lap over Russia a little bit. It's everything. A little? All the time. They're basically dunking on Greg, the Russian character, the whole time, who gets killed, by the way. Yeah. And then Redford at one point's like, we won. They lost. It's been in a few papers. He might as well look to Lenz and give that red green to the commies. Suck it, pinkos. Like, it's all there. But here's the big thing for me. Yeah. And this is what took me. I finally appreciate this movie. It took forever. It's a thinking man's action movie.

11:08Joanna Robinson:It's smart. It's a lot of just people cutting corners with their brains, basically. It's also just incredibly satisfying from, like, all of the resolution. You know, they worked, like, for a decade on this script. Yeah. And so it fits together so neatly like a puzzle. It's a little long. It's like a little over two hours. It's a little longer than you would expect for something like this, but nothing feels wasted. It all comes together. I like to call it a perfect movie, and I feel the same way about something like Tremors, which is another screenplay where every single beat of Tremors matters and pays off, and that's how I feel about Sneakers, and it's intellectually satisfying the way it all comes together.

11:46Joanna Robinson:It's a perfect movie,

11:46Bill Simmons:except River Phoenix, honestly, not enough ISOs for him. I could have gone two more plays for him just letting him cook do something in terms of like

11:55Joanna Robinson:why this movie wasn't a bigger hit if you're gonna sell this movie in the early 90s and you have River Phoenix in it and he's just like comic relief I love River Phoenix in this I love comedy River Phoenix but he's just like the doofy comic relief guy and you're like I'm like you have one of the biggest like heartthrob stars in your movie and he's like seventh build and Bill did you see this in the research it might come up that he's on record that he had just done My Own Private Idaho and was deep into the work and all heavy. And he literally said, I just wanted an easy money job. And they're like, sure.

12:29So I think he's like having the time of his life on this movie. Absolutely.

12:31Joanna Robinson:He's loving it. He and Dan Aykroyd got along really well. And he's just like, he gets to work with Robert Redford. Like nobody says no to working with Redford or Poitier at this point.

12:40Bill Simmons:This is one of the research movies and sometimes I don't trust it, but in this one, it's clear like everybody loved being in the movie and working with each other. The River Phoenix thing, I mean, I didn't think we'd do it this fast in the pod. But it was really important. Like, he was kind of the guy. He was basically what Leo became in the mid-90s when he was doing, like, Romeo and Juliet. Like, after This Boy's Life and Gilbert Grape. Right. When he started making Romeo and Juliet. Before Titanic, there was a moment with him where it's like, this is going to be the next guy. And that was River Phoenix.

13:11Bill Simmons:Like, when I was, like, a senior in high school and in college. Like, after Stand By Me, it was like, this is the guy. This is going to be the guy. And this is one of the only normal movies he really made in the last five years. Like, he really started to do some dark stuff, and his life went dark, too.

13:27Joanna Robinson:And then his last movie is the Samantha Mathis, like, country-western singer movie. I like that movie, too. Yeah, I kind of like that movie. Well, I mean, listen, one of the things in the River Phoenix trophy case towards the top is that Steven Spielberg handpicks him to play Indiana Jones, the young version, which is, like, an all-time legacy character. And he's amazing in that sequence. Yeah, he is. He's incredible. But to your point about like what Leo was doing in the time of the 90s, then they come to him and they're like, hey, do you want to be in the Indiana Jones, young Indiana Jones TV show?

13:55Joanna Robinson:And he goes, no, thanks. Yeah. Not for me.

13:57Bill Simmons:Right.

13:57Joanna Robinson:Not for me.

13:58Bill Simmons:Yeah. The Phoenix thing. It's sad watching him in this because he's just clearly, and Redford picked him. It's funny. Ethan Hawke told a story and I think he was talking about this movie.

14:07Joanna Robinson:Do you?

14:09Bill Simmons:Was it this or something? No, River Runs Through It. River Runs Through It? River Runs Through It, yeah. Because these guys are all competing against roles. So Ethan Hawke wasn't up for this one or he was? No, no, no. Did you see that story? no I haven't Ethan Hawke went on Jimmy Kimmel's show yeah and told this like four minute story about Redford about how he tried out for River Runs through it and didn't get it for Brad Pitt's part

14:28Joanna Robinson:and he's like he was told you're too young kid but you're great keep going is what Redford said to him

14:33Bill Simmons:and then Redford showed up at some play he was in later yeah and was like just would check in on him and they became friends so it was like genuine he's like I really like you but you're not right for this part but I'm still like I'm still a believer and I think he felt the same way about River. I feel like we kind of still see him because we just watched Joaquin and it's like, would he have been the Joker? He probably would have been an incredible Joker. Like, all of those parts that he plays that are so interesting, I wonder, or would he have been like just doing entry-level Marvel stuff? I don't know.

15:05I don't know. Don't you think like,

15:06Bill Simmons:I honestly think Leo had the career that River Phoenix I thought was going to have.

15:11Joanna Robinson:And I do think that like, even though Leo is a few years younger, obviously, I do think that Leo's career opened up because there was this vacuum from River Phoenix's access.

15:21Bill Simmons:And he would have done, I think, the same thing where he would have worked with good directors and tried to do co-stars. Anyway, 1992. Yeah. I wrote down, it's truly insane how prescient this movie is. These two quotes from Cosmo. There's a war out there, old friend, a world war, and it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. Right. There's one. The world isn't run by weapons anymore, energy or money. It's run by little ones and zeros, little bits of data. It's all just electrons. In 1992, this was flying over my head.

16:00Joanna Robinson:You asked if this was the first Cyber Capra movie. This feels to me like one of the first Silicon Valley movies. This is such a Bay Area movie. I grew up in the Bay Area. It's not just a San Francisco movie. It's a Bay Area movie. We're going to Palo Alto. We're going across the Dumbarton Bridge. We're doing all this stuff. and Cosmo as this precursor for what the emotionally stunted men of Silicon Valley will do and control in the future, it makes sneakers eternally relevant.

16:28Bill Simmons:So you're saying like Bezos might have had this ponytail look that Cosmo had at some point?

16:32Joanna Robinson:He wished he had that ponytail. It's like someone now who's saying like really heavy shit about AI. I remember I watched this when I was 13 and I didn't really follow what Cosmo was saying, but I'm like, oh, this is important and kind of scary. But, you know, it's 1992. I'm like, holy shit, look what the Dream Team's doing to Angola. This is great. My focus was elsewhere.

16:51Bill Simmons:Well, it's funny because it's like, I'll just spoil it now. War Games was my double feature for this. It's mine too. I love it.

16:58Joanna Robinson:I watched it last night actually.

16:59Bill Simmons:And War Games had the very, oh, nice.

17:01Joanna Robinson:Yeah.

17:02Bill Simmons:War Games had a very similar like, it catches some moment before it became a moment. Like nuclear war didn't really, like I would say 80, with the day after when that TV movie happened.

17:14Joanna Robinson:Right, right.

17:15Bill Simmons:When we really had a Cold War panic in the 80s, War Games was early on it and kind of saw it coming. And then, and the way it used computers, it just was ahead of its time, but it did way better than Sneakers did.

17:27Joanna Robinson:I rewatched it last night because it's the origin story for this movie, because the screenwriters found, in researching War Games, went to conventions, found out about the phone freakers, the cyber caper the black hatters and so I was like oh curious to see there's so much Sneakers DNA in War Games some of the sort of like we're all crowded around a monitor moments feel so similar the score is doing even though it's a different composer the score is doing similar things but the way that War Games starts is you have John Spencer and Michael Madsen as two like nuclear missile silo workers going in for a day at work and there's in the elevator talking about like how John Spencer once knew a woman who grew weed.

18:11Joanna Robinson:And there's having this random, has nothing to do with what's going to happen conversation. And it's like so many conversations in sneakers where Dan Aykroyd, Mother, gets on and is just like, cattle mutilations are up. You know, like, just like the little conversations that they have in the midst of these various heists is something that these guys love to put in. And it makes these characters feel so real. And these relationships feel so real. These are people who just know each other, are irritated by each other. but like also show up for each other. I love that.

18:41Bill Simmons:Were you a war games guy, Kyle? I was, yeah. A big war games guy. I loved it. And I think that Joanna makes a pression point, which is I think there are certain movies in the early 90s that are so excited about being a 90s movie. Like they're so, they're like, welcome to the 90s, motherfuckers. Like I remember when like, remember the movie Grand Canyon came out? It was like in the 80s, they brought you the big chill. Welcome to the 90s. That was the actual tagline. And I think to the War Games point, I think when we hit the 90s, everyone was a little nuked out. Like, we've done a lot of nuke stuff and nuke movies.

19:14Now it's not the nukes. He's literally saying it's the computers. And like, wow, the 90s are so cool. That's how I felt when I was a kid.

19:22Bill Simmons:I think that's a good point. I love that. Grand Canyon. Flawed movie. Oh, yeah. Kind of enjoyable. Steve Martin gets shot and foams at the mouth. It's very strange and upsetting. Weird, weird movie. Really strange movie. This is also a We Gotta Get a Crew movie.

19:37Joanna Robinson:Well, they have to go.

19:38Bill Simmons:Well, but I mean, like, World War II, like, we gotta find people who can solve stuff. I like the idea of people who break into stuff to teach people how to avoid being broken into.

19:48Joanna Robinson:Yeah.

19:49Bill Simmons:Has that happened? That must have happened in a TV show, right? There must be some CBS show that my dad watches that has that premise. Yeah. Right? Yeah. But this is a real thing.

19:58Joanna Robinson:And the thing that about this movie, another thing about this movie is it's not universally beloved, but like the cybersecurity world loves sneakers. They're like, sneakers got it right, man. They get it, you know?

20:10Bill Simmons:Yeah, it was like way more thinking versus like black hat. Right. So Redford's the leader, Martin Bishop. Yep. Poitier. I always mess up his name. It's in my speech impediment. Poitier. Poitier. It's in my speech dyslexia part. Poitier and Van Damme, Bill. It's all right. We all have our illnesses. It's okay. He's had a security. Yep. Ackroyd. Weird that he was in this movie in 92, but it's right as he's shifting into, he's not leading movies the same way anymore. He's now moving. Like he's in Tommy Boy a couple years later. He's in My Girl. He's starting to hit like these. Coneheads.

20:49Joanna Robinson:Did you see in your research that he was insisting that he play Cosmo? And they were like, we got Ben Kingsley to do that. Yeah, you're good, man. We want you to play Mother.

21:00Bill Simmons:I don't see him as that. So he's a tech specialist.

21:03Joanna Robinson:Yeah.

21:05Bill Simmons:River Phoenix is Carl, who's...

21:07Joanna Robinson:Just like the new kid.

21:08Bill Simmons:He's like a good guy. Like young energy off the bench.

21:12Joanna Robinson:He's basically... Yeah, he'll do the crazy shit though too.

21:14Bill Simmons:He's like a hillbound special teams. He'll be the gunner.

21:17Joanna Robinson:He'll get the plans in the building for you. He's basically Broderick's character in War Games, right? They caught him hacking into the Oakland City school system to change his grades.

21:27Bill Simmons:And then Whistler, played by my guy, David Straighthorn,

21:31Joanna Robinson:Talk about it. Strathern.

21:33Bill Simmons:Strathern?

21:33Joanna Robinson:Strathern.

21:34Bill Simmons:Straighthorn? I thought it was Strathern. Strathern.

21:37Joanna Robinson:Strathern's really an all-time record for me. How do you say it? Strathern, I think.

21:43Bill Simmons:I don't know if I've ever heard anyone say it. I thought it was Strathern. Joanna, you think it's Strathern? I'm going to call him Strathern.

21:50Joanna Robinson:Either way, it's better than what Bill said.

21:53Bill Simmons:Possibly, yes. He's a blind guy with super hearing.

21:56Joanna Robinson:Yeah.

21:57Bill Simmons:Yes. All those people you just mentioned, Oscar winners or Oscar nominated. he's also incredible he was in like some really great smaller parts like the firm he's awesome he's eight men out he's the pitcher who can't decide whether he should cheat or not but he's just he'd pop up in these movies every couple of years and you're like i love this guy

22:17Joanna Robinson:but it never really he never became like a guy his mom yeah his mom can i give you two parts two two parts to stand out all right he plays an unbelievably disturbing terrible character in Dolores Claiborne with Kathy Bates. Unwatchable character. Also, incredible arc in The Sopranos when Carm and Tony break up. She sleeps with him. Yeah, Joanna's never seen it. He's like the counselor at the school and they fight and he has an all-time one-liner that I would not say right now, but I love that character. Yeah. River runs through it. Madewan with Mary McDonnell and James Earl Jones, a movie that I really, really love.

22:57Bill Simmons:Did really good work.

22:58Joanna Robinson:A John Sayles guy.

22:59Bill Simmons:And then Mary McDonnell, who's red hot right now from Dances with Wolves.

23:03Joanna Robinson:So the word on the street is that you do not like Mary. I do like her.

23:07Bill Simmons:I didn't. I don't. She got trapped with bad parts for two years. I always thought she was better than the parts. The Blue Chips character is like, I don't even. Are you with Nick Dolte or not? Like what's going on there? Grand Canyon. That movie is just super weird. This. I think she's great in this movie. She classes up this movie.

23:24Joanna Robinson:She's so good in this movie. She's really good.

23:26Bill Simmons:And it's a nothing part. I don't even know. like you can't even describe five things about that character, but she makes it work.

23:33Joanna Robinson:Something I love about, you know, like I said, they worked on this movie for 10 years. Something I love about the evolution of this movie is that originally Liz was like someone who worked in a bank that they meet like over the course of the movie, turning her into Bishop's ex. So you have that sort of like comedy plot of remarriage. Like let's, we really want these people to get back together energy. Everyone already knows her. So you don't have to spend a lot of time. Like who is this girl? why do we care about her? You want Bishop, you want the two of them to get back together. There's personal stakes on this whole operation, right?

24:05Joanna Robinson:Because he's like, if I get my name back, maybe we can be together. Great stuff.

24:11Bill Simmons:Same thing in Blue Chips, by the way. Exact same relationship with Nick Nolte.

24:15Joanna Robinson:And then everyone in the group loves her. Like, all of the sneakers love her.

24:20Bill Simmons:You gotta love her.

24:21Joanna Robinson:She's great.

24:22Bill Simmons:You know who didn't really love the crew? Little early step on Raj. Roger Ebert.

24:28Joanna Robinson:Oh, unsurprisingly.

24:29Bill Simmons:I love this movie. Come on. Redford's team, yet another version of the World War II platoon that always had won everything. He lists all the people. There's not enough useful dialogue to go around for such a large team. And sometimes characters feel like they've been pushed on stage for obligatory scenes that are not really necessary. It's a borderline fuck you, Raj. I'm not going to go full tilt, fuck you, Raj, but I did think about it.

24:52Joanna Robinson:Get out of here, Raj, with that take. Terrible take.

24:55Bill Simmons:um talk to me about the uh the out thinking version of hacking scrabble pieces what were some of your favorite like scotch tape hacking basically um the scrabble sequence is excellent in this i i do have one bone to pick with it i'm a scrabble guy it really really bothers me that they're in the middle of a game and bish just picks it up and dumps over the board and they don't they're not like what the fuck bish i had triple word score what do you do i guarantee he was getting his ass kicked in that game. Oh, he was losing. It really bothers me. He was definitely losing. You can't do that. That's nuts.

25:30Bill Simmons:Piecing together sounds.

25:32Joanna Robinson:Yeah. That's what you hear. That's the centerpiece of this movie. My voice is my passport. Verify me. That whole sequence is amazing.

25:41Bill Simmons:Whistler guessing the answer machine thing with the black box. Just a lot of like... Let's go to Craig without him stepping on the take of the movie. When you see these movies, as a post-internet child that tried to explain the internet, but it's like 1992 and hacking and all this stuff. What is your reaction as a younger person? Well, this movie reminded me the most of, is it Disclosure? Yeah. When he's got the goggles on, he's like, it's all out there and everything's around him. Look, I think unfortunately, the movies that tried to do this in the 90s, they didn't know where things were going.

26:18It was like so new and I think they thought they were getting ahead of it. and it's just naturally one of those things that is impossible to age well. You know? It's tough.

26:28Bill Simmons:Might be a foreshadowing of Craig's take for later.

26:31Joanna Robinson:I've only been on a handful of rewatchables, but you can tell when you walk in the room and you look at Craig's face what Craig thinks of the movie.

26:39Bill Simmons:Well, you guys shouldn't ask me before what I thought, you know? Yeah, that's true. I don't know why I try to feel you out. Hey, Horlbeck, you know what ages well? Characters and writing. Who cares about the goddamn computers all the time? We'll get to that. We'll get to the characters. All right, good. No, Greg.

26:54Joanna Robinson:I don't want to stay. I wasn't leaving them out.

26:57Bill Simmons:One last elite mainstream run for Redford. We should mention this because this is Robert Redford month. Sneakers. Directs wherever runs through it. Indecent proposal. Directs quiz show. Up close and personal with Michelle Pfeiffer. And then is Sundance is taking off. And this is all from like 92 to 96. So it's his third straight decade for him. where he's just in the mix in a real way.

27:23Joanna Robinson:That's so interesting to me because like this is a, so he has Out of Africa in 85. Yeah. And then he makes two terrible movies. Like this, he hasn't made a good movie, acted in a good movie since 85 when he makes this movie. Right. And so there's a way in which Redford kind of needs this movie. Oh yeah. Right? He needs his last run.

27:40Bill Simmons:It's almost like an athlete.

27:41Joanna Robinson:Wash the taste of Legal Eagles in Havana out of your mouth, right? And so he makes this movie. I'm not a huge fan of Up Close and Personal. and Indecent Proposal. But those are two movies where Redford's like, these are the I Still Got It movies.

27:56Bill Simmons:Yeah.

27:57Joanna Robinson:Right? With a much younger co-star. Mary McDonald's at least like only about 15 years younger than him in this movie. So he's got those two like I Still Got It movies. And then he's firmly into old man Redford territory.

28:07Bill Simmons:Up close and personal, I'll defend because my queen Michelle Pfeiffer's in it. That's really, I have no other reason.

28:12Joanna Robinson:It's a terrible movie. And she looks great. She looks wonderful. And she's a broadcaster. It's awesome. It's the original Morning Show. Do you think you love Morning Show because you love up close and personal?

28:21Bill Simmons:I love to hate watch Morning Show. Okay. It's never been worse. Are you a One Fine Day guy as well? It's not very good. But I watch it. Have I watched it multiple times? Yes.

28:31Joanna Robinson:One Fine Day is great.

28:32Bill Simmons:Yeah. Listen, Pfeiffer in the 90s.

28:34Joanna Robinson:Including Pfeiffer? I mean, my number one is

28:36Bill Simmons:to Jillian on her 37th birthday.

28:39Joanna Robinson:Right.

28:40Bill Simmons:Which is a movie with no plot whatsoever.

28:42Joanna Robinson:The most rewatchable movie that has ever happened.

28:44Bill Simmons:And she's the hottest ghost that ever lived. Yeah, what a run for her. anyway Redford is 56 yeah in sneakers I have some thoughts about that in later categories meanwhile Ben Kingsley this is his 90s supporting guy run Bugsy sneakers Dave Bobby Fisher Schindler's List and Species all in like four years they were like alright we gotta give you this sir this is too many rewatchable movies what are your Ben Kingsley's thoughts Kyle um well also like strathairn or however you say it uh memorable sopranos run for me a crazy episode with hollywood maltasante yeah i love that obviously all this stuff that he had done i just remember like when he started going by sir i was like oh shit he's a sir now like that he's one of the people that the sir really seemed to suit them some of these people with the sirs i don't i'm not feeling it sir ben is it works for him like sir marshawn lynch maybe doesn't work i I can't do that.

29:46I can't do Sir Beast mode. No, but like Sir Ben Kingsley, yes.

29:49Bill Simmons:I don't like when people get the Sirs. I feel like I have nothing in common with them anymore. They're like, we've been at night. Isn't it like the British Walk of Stars? Which is over here. Do you know Michael Sheen,

30:00Joanna Robinson:the actor Michael Sheen gave his back? Why? Because he's Welsh and he believes strongly that in like sort of Welsh independence. So he gave his.

30:07Bill Simmons:Rejected the Sir.

30:08Joanna Robinson:He received it and then he returned it. Because he said he did some research into. I don't know how many people have returned it, but he returned it. I don't like Sir either, but for some reason I love Dame. Like Dame Judi Dench all day long. Dame is great. I love a Dame. It's such a good point.

30:23Bill Simmons:Dame is great. Sir is terrible. We need it in America. We need our version of this though, where people just get some weird title. I think it's the verified blue check on Twitter. That's what we do now. Absolutely not. Directed and co-written by Phil Alden Robinson, who did Field of Dreams. One of my favorite movies in college.

30:41Joanna Robinson:This is how he spends his field of dreams, blank check, getting sneakers. How about that?

30:46Bill Simmons:What's interesting is, I was like, what happened? Why didn't he make more movies? Because this guy was clearly good at making movies and putting movies together and getting good form of characters. You're big, some of all fears guy. Yeah, he's good in that. Or the movies, like that's a well-directed, well-done movie. He went kind of serious. Like he was directing documentaries for Nightline. Like he just kind of moved away from making movies full time.

31:11Joanna Robinson:He started his documentary. Like, he was in, during the Vietnam War, he was a military documentary filmmaker. Yeah. Then he, you know, he writes all of me. He directs Field of Dreams. He does this. He does some old affairs. And now he's back in, like, he was a leader, in leadership at the Writers Guild of America and at the Motion Picture Academy. So he's sort of like a Hollywood statesman at this point.

31:32Bill Simmons:It's kind of like the real life, real life Marty. Oh, Marty Bishop. Yeah, the higher college. Listen, some of the stuff in this movie is heavy handed. You mentioned the post-Cold War victory that lapped. There's just straight shots across the bow to the Republican Party. It was like, at the end of the movie, we go from the really great sequence of the blind guy driving the car, and all of a sudden, he's up there preaching about information. You can tell the director was liking the stuff. Good for him. It was a great movie. Yeah, he might have had a couple settled-down moments with the producers.

32:02Bill Simmons:Maybe so. Scale it back a little. I don't know.

32:05Joanna Robinson:You make Field of Dreams. I think you get to do whatever you want to do.

32:07Bill Simmons:You really did. I still don't understand what happened to all the cars when they showed up at the end of Field of Dreams.

32:12Joanna Robinson:Like where they parked them? Yeah.

32:15Bill Simmons:At some point, it's just a traffic jam.

32:16Joanna Robinson:You just got to mow down someone else's fields in order to make a parking lot. It's kind of the same thing as this movie. There's like 100 guards that storm the building at the end, and then they just all disappear. Same with the cars.

32:28Bill Simmons:Just kind of go away. $23 million budget made$105.2 million.

32:33Joanna Robinson:Globally. Pretty good. All day long. It's okay. Only$50 million domestically. and you mentioned Shawshank Redemption which I think is a great comp I wish this had had the like lives forever on TNT Saturday morning sort of life that Shawshank had

32:47Bill Simmons:you know what part of the problem was it was a little too long and it wasn't Shawshank yeah it's not as good as Shawshank

32:53Joanna Robinson:it is not Shawshank Redemption if this is an hour 40

32:55Bill Simmons:it's on TNT and TBS for 20 straight years

32:58Joanna Robinson:I think the other issue and this is something that Phil Alden Robinson did is that he put well you can edit language for cable that's fine but this is such a weird spot of a movie, right? It's a dad movie is what it is. And I love a dad movie. I love a tin cup. I love a field of dreams. I love this movie, right? I love the whole everything.

33:20Bill Simmons:Craig doesn't.

33:23Joanna Robinson:But Craig just looks so wounded when you said that.

33:25Bill Simmons:I love field of dreams. You're talking about tin cup? I like tin cup.

33:29Joanna Robinson:It's all right. But like this isn't, this is, but there's not, there's a little bit of action. There's not a ton of action. Yeah, sure. And you said there's some, I mean, there's not really any sex in this movie. You know what I mean? And so it's like.

33:40Bill Simmons:There's a lot of weird groaning off camera.

33:42Joanna Robinson:But it's too like smart or however you want to categorize it for kids to love it. You know what I mean? Early teens. You know, you and I.

33:52Bill Simmons:So you would throw more sex in it?

33:54Joanna Robinson:I'm saying it's a weird sweet spot. Is it for kids? Is it for adults? Like, who is it for? It's for me. You know what I think it is, Joanna? I think this movie is an on the screws perfect PG-13 movie. I agree. It's why that rating exists. they get it yeah but I think then it becomes hard to pitch like I wouldn't show this to kids but then some adults are like well this isn't action heavy enough for me or this isn't you know you know what this movie is

34:20Bill Simmons:it's just a good hang

34:21Joanna Robinson:it's such a good hang yes it is a good hang

34:23Bill Simmons:and I think a big piece of this is the score that we didn't really talk about but James Horner which I have some stuff later I had no idea how revered this score was by people

34:32Joanna Robinson:oh did you read the Bratel yeah yeah Yeah, yeah.

34:35Bill Simmons:But we'll hit that in a second. Roger Ebert, two and a half stars. Could have been worse. One of the weaknesses of the movie is the way it pretends to be a techno thriller when in fact, it recycles much older traditions. It's a sometimes entertaining movie, but thin.

34:52Joanna Robinson:I'm not claiming it's a deep movie, but it matters that things are fun and not stupid. And that's what Sneakers is.

35:01Bill Simmons:All right, we're going to take a break and then we're going to do the categories. This episode is brought to you by Pure Michigan. In Grand Rapids, every moment feels like a scene worth replaying. Every riverside stroll, every slow afternoon sipping small batch brews, every guitar riff drifting out of the city's brand new amphitheater. This is a place where everything feels cinematic. Like you've stepped into a highlight reel that's yours to explore. Ranked as the number one city on the rise from LinkedIn, Grand Rapids invites you to find a rhythm all your own. season after season in pure Michigan.

35:34Bill Simmons:Find your season at experiencegr.com. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. There's nothing better than having friends that support you and your passions, or maybe even a wife. Like when I told my wife, we have to go see the new Paul Thomas Anderson movie and we went to a 4.30 Monday screening and I was so passionate about it that I skipped Monday Night Football and just watched it later on DVR. If you really love something, you need the support system around you. Like those friends, State Farm is there to help you along the way. With so many coverage options, it's nice knowing you have support in finding what fits for you.

36:16Bill Simmons:Go online at statefarm.com or use the award-winning app to get help from one of their local agents. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Most rewatchable scene. Would you have the 1969 pizza order going wrong in there? Because I would not, but I'm happy to defer to you. You know what I love about that scene? And this is a take that's coming later. I think they fucking nailed the young versions of Kingsley and Redford. I love those actors. I had that. I knew you would. Redford is great. He's great. And young Kingsley looks like him. If we put it on a scale of if young Tommy in Goodfellas is a 10, like the best one that's ever been done.

36:54these guys are like seven fives or eights I completely buy that it's them

36:59Bill Simmons:I had Redford as like a nine yeah he looks like electric horseman Redford he's got like the big hair and the mustache

37:05Joanna Robinson:that's Michael from Twin Peaks like he's a guy I know but you put that like sort of that like handle or mustache on him and I was just like that's right and he got the intonation perfect

37:16Bill Simmons:I thought Kingsley was like a five and a half

37:18Joanna Robinson:I thought he was good we're gonna have to spend a lot of time talking about Kingsley's accent in this movie and I feel like probably the young guy doing whatever it is that Kingsley was doing was sort of distracted by that assignment. Okay, okay, I'm into that.

37:30Bill Simmons:Most of the watchable scene, the bad guys find Marty, allegedly an essay agent. One of them's Timothy Busfield. Yep. He was having a little run here. He was in Field of Dreams. I think 30-something might still be on at this point. Yeah. Oh, it is. He had shed Revenge of the Nerds, I felt like at this point. You weren't looking at him and just thinking of him playing the bass. What was that, an electric guitar? or what did he play about? I keep waiting for the nerds pod. I just don't know if we're responsible enough to do it. It's got some problematic stuff. It's got some deep problems. We almost did it.

38:02The movie does not exist on the internet. The movie's gone.

38:04Bill Simmons:You can't find it. We were going to do it when House was here and the movie's just hit. You can't rent it, buy it, stream it. It's been wiped. Anthony Edwards uses the air money. It's gone to that soul man territory where it doesn't exist anymore. Dom Plum. Lambda, lambda, lambda. Those are my guys. Yeah.

38:18Joanna Robinson:It's Timothy Busfield and Eddie Jones who is a great, I love Eddie Jones. he played Pa Kent on Lois and Clark so I always think of him as Pa Kent when I see him but he's so they're such great assholes in this movie

38:31Bill Simmons:yeah trying to get the math guy's password while while this Czech lady seducing him is just kind of funny but I like the next scene I mean laugh out loud at Carl saying I wish you think I could take a look I mean he wants to see this is 92 you can't get internet porn and all that he's like wow I gotta sit for nudity so funny

38:52Joanna Robinson:But when Poitiers like grow up and then he's like, let me see. Yeah.

38:59Bill Simmons:But the next scene is better when Marty gets caught in the office with the Czech lady. That's a really good scene. And the little earpieces. I was wondering when people have earpieces like that, you can't tell when you're just talking to them. Like if Joanne had an earpiece right now with somebody talking into it, I wouldn't be able to hear that.

39:16Joanna Robinson:It depends on how slick your tech is. And I don't know how 92 Sneakers tech is. If it's the 80s, that woman's topless for sure.

39:24Bill Simmons:Oh, 1983? Yeah. That's like an actual sex scene. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we got out. In the 90s, we were just better people. The Clinton administration was coming.

39:35Joanna Robinson:Yeah, Clinton really cleaned everything up. We had a lot of hope in 92 that things were going to be better. Clinton is Carl wanting to see in the camera. That's who he is.

39:45Bill Simmons:The Czech lady, I'm not positive what's going on there, and it's pretty silly, but I enjoy it.

39:50Joanna Robinson:I love her. She's also in Field of Dreams. She's in almost every Phil Alden Robinson movie. Yeah.

39:57Bill Simmons:Well, she was the crazy book-burning lady in Field of Dreams, right?

40:00Joanna Robinson:Uh-huh, and she's in Some of All Fears. And then there's like an Easter egg in Some of All Fears. Her character's name in this movie gets like mentioned in Some of All Fears. It's the...

40:10Bill Simmons:I think Joanna's really auditioning for the Some of All Fears rewatching. This is what I'm taking away. Absolutely not. What I'm taking away. Solo pot.

40:18Joanna Robinson:I just think it's fascinating that Phil Alden Robinson's like, she's my girl. I'm going to put her in all of my movies. Love her.

40:23Bill Simmons:They cracked the code for Cetech Astronomy? Cetech Astronomy, whatever it was. Yeah.

40:30Joanna Robinson:Rat semen cooties. Yep.

40:33Bill Simmons:All right. The Ben Kingsley Cosmo reveal. So Marty has no idea this is coming.

40:40Joanna Robinson:I guess not.

40:41Bill Simmons:He never thought about this? Like, oh, the guy died in prison. I'm just going to accept that explanation.

40:46Joanna Robinson:I think he hoped he did. I think you can explain that he's so burdened by guilt about this that he's just sort of like, I hope this is the end of that story.

40:55Bill Simmons:Is he burdened by guilt? Seems like he kind of moved on. It's like, I was getting some pizza. Fuck that guy. Yeah. I don't think he tried to help him at anything. I think he's like this wild dog who's out of there. Yeah, he did it. Not at all. It's like how Kyle and I felt when Schrags went to ESPN. It's like, hey, Bill, knowing that Peter's going to listen to this, that is not how I felt. How dare you?

41:18Joanna Robinson:I will say that the Cosmo is a live reveal is kind of impossible to do when you show the movie to people now because they're like, when is Ben Kingsley getting here? You know what I mean? Like they know Ben Kingsley's in the movie and they're like, where is he?

41:33Bill Simmons:Kyle, what do you think when characters say things like, I might be able to crash the whole damn system. Think about it. No more rich people. No more poor people. Everyone is going to be the same. it's great monologuing it's great rhetoric and then the follow up by Bish you haven't gone crazy have you Cos? exactly right but I get fired especially because he's giving that speech and we gotta talk about this later but like obviously Cosmo's office is just a fucking revelation he's giving the speech in some sort of like a Darth Vader back to take chamber I don't even know what they're sitting on what is that?

42:10Joanna Robinson:wow I think that's where he goes it's like out of Austin Powers no one watching him or something like that. Yeah, it is. But yeah, an evil lair is definitely what that is.

42:20Bill Simmons:It's like I'm thinking about being evil lair. It's not even an evil lair.

42:25Joanna Robinson:That's in my unanswerable questions is what is Cosmo's plan exactly?

42:29Bill Simmons:Well, yeah, I mean. Here's the thing with Redford in that scene and what you just said about him being like, Redford was a really good like counterpuncher, reactor play off somebody who's like doing something bigger than he is and just having these little you know like being confused or kind of staring somebody down i always thought that was one of his best skills i don't even know how to describe i don't know other people even do that insightful and that is this movie he's the straight man surrounded by these eccentric characters who are blind or funny or conspiracy theorists there's this little thing he does exactly what you're saying when Cosmo says, oh, it's good to see you.

43:11They cut to Redford and he kind of does this look that says, I'm not sure it's good to see you. Right. Like, it's such good acting. He's so underrated for that. You know what he is?

43:19Bill Simmons:He's a Hall of Fame eye narrower.

43:21Joanna Robinson:Oh. A squinter? Yeah.

43:23Bill Simmons:When his eyes narrow, you know, he's like, the wheels are turning.

43:27Joanna Robinson:He's thinking. That's his thinking face.

43:29Bill Simmons:Or he does the, he listens to somebody. Oh, the golden retriever head tilt? There's a pause. You know what it is? And then he has an answer. you know like if a guy goes like like changes his eyes yeah like Redford does that all the way to the Hall of Fame he's great at it

43:44Joanna Robinson:I think I think the Cosmobile is really interesting I think that scene is really interesting I think that monologue is absolutely bananas I do think it's interesting that you say that Redford is a straight man he is a straight man in this movie but he gets so many jokes like he gets so many jokes off in this movie too counterpuncher

44:02Bill Simmons:the problems always get worse why is that I should do this in a Kingsley accent, but I'm not going to.

44:08Joanna Robinson:Good luck. Which one?

44:10Bill Simmons:Disaster.

44:11Joanna Robinson:The way he says disaster.

44:13Bill Simmons:Disaster.

44:14Joanna Robinson:Bizarre.

44:15Bill Simmons:Because money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it.

44:23Joanna Robinson:The question is, is this movie.

44:27Bill Simmons:Predicted in the 2020s?

44:28Joanna Robinson:Is this movie in favor of what these guys were doing in the 60s? or is it, you know, this is the conversation we're having about one battle after another. What does it say about these revolutionaries of what they become in one battle, in like in modern day, but one battle after another? And what does it say about Cosmo who's like in the 60s is like, let's fuck over Richard Nixon. And then the 90s, you're like, the movie thinks he's crazy, but what he's preaching is financial equity. I don't really understand exactly what the movie wants us to think about that.

45:00Bill Simmons:Thank you for bringing this up. I think bringing the PTA movie is smart, bringing that in. So this is like 45, almost 50 years of that theme, which is basically like my mom and dad. They're in college, and it's like, we're going to change the world. And then 10 years later, it's like, wait, what are we going to do now? This kind of sucks. That's been like, people try to change the world. They get older, and you either keep that passion or you don't. and in Kingsley's case, he keeps the passion, but in like the craziest, darkest way possible. It's almost like a comic book movie, Kyle. They have a moment where Carl pulls him aside and says, I just don't understand.

45:39Why were you taking all these chances? And he's like, well, there was a war going on. Well, we just wanted to meet girls. Carl is like speaking for the younger people in that scene and then he's speaking for my parents. It's a cool little moment.

45:50Bill Simmons:This is like the big show. This is the first movie that really was just like, this is about this theme. What happens when you get older? and you can't change the world anymore, what do you do then? And Kevin Kline's character is like, you know what's cool? Money. I have a shoe store. You buy a lot of stuff. Yeah, I have a really cool house. Have you seen my house? Look at the backyard. Buy stuff that'll make it better. All right. Just spoiler. This is my most rewatchable scene when they figure out where Marty got taken.

46:15Joanna Robinson:Yeah, the cocktail party scene.

46:17Bill Simmons:This whole thing, figuring out the sounds.

46:20Joanna Robinson:That's it.

46:21Bill Simmons:And Whistler just like on his little thing. Does it sound like this? I just think that's a riveting five minutes. I'm proud of you because there's a skeptic's reaction to that scene it's oh fucking come on you're not gonna hear what the sound of the highway is when you're unconscious in the back of a trunk and he's like well the seams of the concrete I like the scene too Strathairn or whatever his name is carries it beautifully but there's a lot of people who are like that's bullshit really? there's people out there they're detractors? yeah you wouldn't believe that but there are yes it's unlikely but it does work they stole it for Taken 2

46:54Joanna Robinson:they don't believe that David Strathairn knows that Whistler has memorized the seam allowance between the concrete on the Dumbarton Bridge.

47:01Bill Simmons:Well, also that Barty, who probably has a concussion and or a CTE from the hit he took, is going to be in a trunk like, all right, I'm memorizing that sound and now that sound. I mean, you're probably in the car like, oh, my head.

47:15Joanna Robinson:This is a, this is a, there's a nitpick about this scene and then I have a well actually to the nitpick, right? Because in that scene, they say there are four Bay Area bridges, right? Sure. There are actually five.

47:26Bill Simmons:Oh, is this a San Francisco nitpick? Yeah. Wow. Joe was really like bringing it to me.

47:31Joanna Robinson:I have a well, actually. There's five. Because they mentioned the Golden Gate, the Bay, the Dunbarton, and San Mateo. There's the Richmond-San Rafael Bridge. But if you're coming from San Francisco, which is the origin, I believe, then there's only four that matter. But a lot of people will say, well, actually, they didn't mention the Richmond-San Rafael Bridge. And I'm like, why would you talk about it if you're starting in San Francisco?

47:52Bill Simmons:I've never seen Kyle more riveted by anything. thing originally we thought there was another bridge and that uh brock purdy was a bridge quarterback but it turns out he's the real deal nfl joke nfl joke i will say the bay area the the bay area in me the biggest it's it's actually one of my favorite parts of the movie because i

48:14Joanna Robinson:get excited every time it comes up and it's the way that canadian dan akroyd pronounces the dunbar bridge he says dunbarton in a really weird way that if you grew up listening to the like the traffic reports in the Bay Area, you're like, why would you ever say it like that?

48:28Bill Simmons:It's like me saying Straytharn?

48:29Joanna Robinson:Yeah, Dumbarton. The Dumbarton bridge. We're now calling David Strathair and Michael Strahan. It's come to that. The society we live in.

48:38Bill Simmons:I really like that scene. Two more Kingsley figures it out and he's on the intercom. I like when bad guys are on an intercom in a building. Joanna, you must come out now.

48:49Joanna Robinson:You're saying that like you don't do that every day at the Mateo office.

48:51Bill Simmons:I should start coming downtown and just go in the intercom. Hello, Ringer. There's also that point where he's like, she's lovely, Marty. And then they go and they show Mary McDonald. You're like, oh, shit, you got him. Let's go, Kaz. I have a very short rewatchable scene that I'm going to talk about later now for this. That's just for me, that I was fascinated by and I videotaped. I'm going to show you later. And then finally, a James Earl Jones cameo. Oh, what a great scene. During like peak James Earl Jones. I mean, Apex Mountain of James Earl Jones, Field of Dreams, Sandlot, this movie. Like, he would pop up.

49:27Bill Simmons:It was like fucking being handed a hot fudge sundae.

49:30Joanna Robinson:It's like, oh, thank you. Two of our ringer pals are like the perfect example of what I was talking about at the beginning about what this movie can be. Because when I told Van that we were, I was like, oh, I'm doing We're Watchable tomorrow. He's like, what are you doing?

49:41Bill Simmons:Van's jealous.

49:41Joanna Robinson:And I was like, sneakers. He gasped.

49:44Bill Simmons:Yeah. He was so excited, right?

49:47Joanna Robinson:And, but our pal Rob Mahoney had not seen sneakers. he went to go see it in Rep last week for the first time he had never seen it because he was like Joanna's obsessed with this I'm gonna go see it it's in Rep

49:57Bill Simmons:you bullied everybody

49:59Joanna Robinson:bullying ringer staffers

50:00Bill Simmons:left and right

50:01Joanna Robinson:what I do best and he's like it played so well he was like the way the crowd lost it when James Earl Jones showed up at the end of this movie I was like yeah it's such a good review I feel every time I watch it Bill it's like alright the crazy heist it happened they get back now let's just roll the credits and then it's like glass breaks dun dun dun oh shit it's James Earl Jones music. What is he doing here? And he comes in like firing. He's doing like, when Bish is like, come on, one day he goes, no. He sounds like Darth Vader. Yeah, Vader, no. He's so good.

50:32Bill Simmons:I'm trying to think who is James Earl Jones now? Like who could just pop into a movie out of nowhere with eight minutes left and you're just like, oh my God, this guy. I don't even think that person exists. I hate to say like another like old black guy, but Morgan Freeman has the voice and everybody loves him and like there's some of that going on a little bit. It's not like Jansel Jones. Yeah. There was like, it's funny because I just watched Field of Dreams again recently. I don't know if it was like the 85th time or the 70th time or whatever, but I just love him so much in that movie. It's one of my favorite performances.

51:04Bill Simmons:He's just so great and so happy. Yeah. As soon as he's on the trip. He can be so intimidating too. Right. When he turns the van around and he's standing there and he goes, Moonlight Graham. Oh shit, I just pissed myself. In that scene in the loft, at the end of it, when he's just like, I'm going to be sick. It makes me so intimidated. It's like he's my grandfather, and I'm like, I did something wrong. He's so great.

51:30Joanna Robinson:That scene is so good. The requests are really funny.

51:33Bill Simmons:Winnebago. Ackroyd wants a Winnebago with burgundy interior. That's great. Sid wants to take his wife to Europe.

51:39Joanna Robinson:And Tahiti. And Tahiti. And Tahiti. Yeah.

51:42Bill Simmons:I'm Carl. I'm married. River Phoenix just wants a phone number from the kind of sneaky hot FBI, whatever she was. and then Whistler wants peace on earth and goodwill toward men and then James Earl Jones says none of this happened with the US government

51:59Joanna Robinson:none of this ever happened

52:00Bill Simmons:this box doesn't exist you deliberately disobeyed me it's the best so what do you have for most rewatchable Kyle? I think the entire Warner Brandeis sequence is fucking awesome from the time they identify his office next to Cosmos the garbage, the 180 IQ, the scene in the restaurant we're trying to check off the thing. But that's a sequence. If I'm answering the question honestly, Bill, I mean, it's got to be the final heist in the fortress and the walking across and that type of shit, all in the middle of that. Joe?

52:36Joanna Robinson:I think the answer is the cocktail party scene, but I also want to add that the Scrabble tile sequence happens at the same time as Whistler and Carl and Mother are messing around with the box. You know what I mean? Like you're doing two things at once in a scene. I think, you know, and figuring out what it can do. That tension. So they're like trying to figure out the James Horner score is going crazy in that sequence. Pianos are like being tossed off of cliffs and stuff like that. I just think that that's such a smart economy. It's so hard to make hacking look interesting. Yeah. Because you're just sitting in front of a monitor.

53:12Joanna Robinson:Most movies fail. And you know what can make it more interesting? A Scrabble game. throw some scrabble tiles on top of that.

53:19Bill Simmons:What's the most 1992 thing about this movie?

53:24Joanna Robinson:Is it Robert Redford's light wash, straight leg, dad jeans?

53:29Bill Simmons:I had Redford's baseball jacket because it's the same jacket from The Natural.

53:33Joanna Robinson:Is that the exact same? Literally the same coat, right? I was like, that looks like the jacket

53:36Bill Simmons:from The Natural and then I Googled it and it's...

53:38Joanna Robinson:It's not the exact same one.

53:40Bill Simmons:It's the exact same jacket. It's not.

53:43Joanna Robinson:It's not. That's what it said

53:44Bill Simmons:on the internet in my half-assed internet research. I know. That's a power move.

53:47Joanna Robinson:My whole ass internet research found out that it's not the same jacket. But it looks the same. Like, definitely? Definitely. But he goes—

53:55Bill Simmons:Is it more fun if it is the same jacket? Let's just pretend that it was. Well, here's my question.

53:59Joanna Robinson:Here's my question. He goes to Union College, I think is the name of the college that he and Cosmo go to. And that's the college from The Way We Were.

54:08Bill Simmons:Yeah.

54:08Joanna Robinson:And then Martin Bishop is a name from Three Days of the Condor. Yeah. And then the jacket is, like, meant to look like the jacket from The Natural. So is this just like Robert Redford fan fiction? Like, is this just like a Robert Redford museum? Or is it the jacket?

54:22Bill Simmons:Maybe the internet information's wrong.

54:24Joanna Robinson:It's not the exact same jacket, but it's very close.

54:26Bill Simmons:It's intimidating to have Joanna on the rewatchables. Yeah, she just whole-ass internet research to you, Bill. I didn't realize we were doing whole-ass internet research. I thought it was half-ass. Mary McDonald's hair, which is feathered to hell.

54:40Joanna Robinson:Very 1992. She looks amazing. Baria 1992 things. First of all, they're in the Fox Theater. That's where they're, it's an Oakland theater. It's a usable venue, but that's where their lair is. So 1992, the idea that these guys, who a woman at the beginning of the movie says, not a very good living that you make, could afford that place in the Bay Area, 1992. The fact that they find street parking on Spears Street when they do the handoff under the Bay Bridge, 1992. It's a different Bay Area.

55:11Bill Simmons:Wow, this is hardcore.

55:12Joanna Robinson:How about that lady who says that about not a good living? What an asshole. Was that totally necessary? Hey, you know, like you work the counter at a bank. What are you casting judgment about? I hate that lady.

55:24Bill Simmons:I had the computer hacker graphics and manipulating a dating service in some sort of kind of capery type thing. Now you'd be manipulating what? What would it be now, Craig? Tinder? Yeah. You could still use a dating service. Bumble or Hinge or something? Bumble. Yeah, it'd be Bumble. And it's not even internet dating. It's computer dating. Right. He's a computer. Which is a very different. But this was computer dating heyday for movies. It could possibly Apex Mountain because Singles has a whole plot around it. Sure. And then See a Love with Pacino. They do the phone service dating thing. Yeah.

55:59Bill Simmons:Now, this is why Craig didn't resonate with this movie. He didn't understand the date. Zuckerberg saw this and was like, I'm going to come up with Facebook. Yeah, I got to come up with better.

56:07Joanna Robinson:I actually have a, I have that in What's Age the Worst. when Ben Kingsley's when Cosmo says a computer meshed him with her I don't think so I'm like actually Bad matches happen all the time.

56:23Bill Simmons:That's why he's Sir Ben Kingsley. He lives above. He doesn't need to use a dating service. Most 1992 thing, hiding something in an answering machine? I mean, I had a major plot point about an answering machine. Another one about a car phone. But my answer was, in the actual Siskel and Ebert episode, where they did the TV show on this, Gene Siskel introduces the movie by saying, starring Robert Redford, Sidney Poitier, and Timothy Busfield from 30-something. Like, holy shit. Wow. He jumped over Dan Aykroyd who was in Ghostbusters and Mary McDonald's and Dancing with Whoops. And the producer's like, no, Gene, trust me, 30-something's big.

56:58You gotta make sure you get Busfield. Wow, that's stunning.

57:01Joanna Robinson:You gotta stump for Busfield. I had one more.

57:03Bill Simmons:The movie ends with a national news report announcing the sudden bankruptcy of the Republican National Committee. Yep. And that simultaneous large donations were made to Amnesty International, Greenpeace, and the United Negro College Fund. It just felt very 92 to me that they picked those charities. And then we had a national news thing. What's age the best? All the Republican barbs are pretty interesting in the 2025 context. Like, pure sucker punches right to the bridge of the nose. And I don't remember there being any conversation about it. Like, now there'd be picketing and there'd be James Woods tweets and everyone would lose their minds.

57:43Bill Simmons:It's funny because this movie comes out right as everybody was really turning on the Republicans in 92 and Clinton was rising and the election's about to happen. There's that George H.W.

57:54Joanna Robinson:Bush dig, right? Where the homeless man's like, they're taking my home. And he's like, ask him. And he points to a Bush poster.

58:01Bill Simmons:I'm telling you, in college it happened fast. Yeah? It was going great for Bush. And then all of a sudden people are like, he's out. Clinton's in. We're like, okay.

58:10Joanna Robinson:The guy doesn't like one stem of broccoli and it's all over.

58:13Bill Simmons:What do you have for what's age the best, Joanna?

58:15Joanna Robinson:I would say information age paranoia and emotionally stunted men in Silicon Valley trying to run or ruin the world. I got one, Bill, that I know is a specialty of yours. We talked about this in the RoboCop pod. Screenwriting hack. If you want to make a character loathsome and give your hero a great line, name the loathsome character Dick. And it allows Bishop to say, oh I can't tell you what a relief that is pause dick it's so good every single time breakfast club does it Robocop does it sneakers does it it always hits

58:47Bill Simmons:when we read our 80s action movie that will be we'll have somebody will be named dick we'll do that I have speaking of that of tropes any movie like this where something happens with one of the heroes and like he falls stumbles whatever and he says we're getting too old for this oh the best I think I don't know how many movies that sentence has been said in but it's over 30. He took a real tumble in that one. He did. The way that he just like

59:11Joanna Robinson:biffs over that counter is so funny.

59:13Bill Simmons:Do you think that was intentional? It's hilarious.

59:16Joanna Robinson:It looks like it, I think the way that Poitier just doesn't react means it's a stunt, but, you know, because he just keeps running, but like, it's a good stunt. This is mid-50s. You can't have to get injured on that shit. It is really funny, though. Yeah, it's really funny.

59:28Bill Simmons:What's age the best? Dan Aykroyd is a kooky conspiracy theorist person because I think he is in real life.

59:34Joanna Robinson:He definitely is. I love all the behind-the-scenes stuff. He goes, I based this on my brother. This is my brother. I got all of this from my brother. Because they added all of that conspiracy theory stuff to the character while they were making the movie. They like didn't really have a full character for mother. And so they added all that stuff, I think, to make Dan Aykroyd feel better about the fact that he wasn't playing Cosmo. Oh, it's so good. And they're like, we'll give you this runner about conspiracy theory stuff. And so in all the behind the scenes stuff, he's like, oh yeah, this is just my brother.

1:00:01Joanna Robinson:And I'm like, Dan, it's you actually. I think this is just you. Now you think the NSA killed Kennedy? No, they shot him. but they didn't kill him. He's still alive. It's so good. This is why being an only child really hurts me. But he's on the other side. Oh, that kills me every time.

1:00:15Bill Simmons:Yeah. I can't blame a sibling for all my conspiracy theories. I just have to own them myself. Oh, God.

1:00:21Joanna Robinson:I love conspiracy build, though.

1:00:22Bill Simmons:For what's age the best, I really like Marty's old orange Porsche.

1:00:27Joanna Robinson:That's my what I want. It's not a... Do you want me to tell you that it's not a Porsche?

1:00:32Bill Simmons:It's probably a fake Porsche. What is it?

1:00:34Joanna Robinson:No, it's a VW. Oh, okay. I thought Joanna might have wanted the jacket because he wore the same jacket in both movies. I would think the jacket.

1:00:41Bill Simmons:I thought that was like an early 60s.

1:00:44Joanna Robinson:No, it's a 1967 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia convertible. And it's the same car that Brad Pitt drives in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.

1:00:53Bill Simmons:Brad Pitt drives the light blue one.

1:00:55Joanna Robinson:I found that on the same - They never showed the side.

1:00:56Bill Simmons:They never showed the back of it, at least for what I could tell. So I thought it was a Porsche.

1:01:00Joanna Robinson:I found that on the same in-depth blog post where they said it's definitely not the same Letterman jacket from a natural. I don't like that blog post.

1:01:07Bill Simmons:and I'm not going to listen to them.

1:01:08Joanna Robinson:But he goes into like the watches that he's wearing and like all this. It's like a very like James Bondification of Marty Bishop. What are his jackets? What are his watches? What is the car? What is his car phone?

1:01:20Bill Simmons:I like the, I will not shoot my friend. Shoot my friend. Shoot my friend. Great line. Great bad guy moment. I also like right after that, it's give me the box right now or I will kill you right now. Just good dialogue. I like it. Catchy. There's also so many little unspoken joke moments

1:01:36Joanna Robinson:like at the very beginning when Carl has put like dark grease paint on his face in order to sort of debut night stealth mode for the bank heist and then Sidney Poitier just like walks up and looks at him and just like keeps going. It's really good.

1:01:52Bill Simmons:Speaking of him, motherfuckers mess with me I'll split your head. All of a sudden it's just out of nowhere. Yeah, they call me Mr. Tibbs. He was one of the most revered actors we had. It was crazy hearing him say that. It's crazy now. It's also like kind of a screenwriting hack If you want someone to be instantly unlikable, like some random security guard, make him say a racial slur to Sidney Poitier to turn around for no reason. And then he goes shotgun to the face. Yeah. Motherfuckers mess with me. I split you in. Even mother goes, wow. I think that was just Dan Aykroyd. I don't even think that was mother.

1:02:25Bill Simmons:The last one says the best is a pretty unique one. Nick Brattel wrote this whole slate piece about how great the score was in 2012. and he was a young composer at that time. Not really a named guy.

1:02:39Joanna Robinson:Hadn't done Succession yet.

1:02:40Bill Simmons:And eventually he ends up doing all the scores for Succession, which is like I think one of the most famous scores of this century.

1:02:47Joanna Robinson:He talks about… And now he's doing this.

1:02:49Bill Simmons:He's got some stuff coming that I know about that I'm not allowed to say.

1:02:52Joanna Robinson:Tell me later. But he does…

1:02:54Bill Simmons:But he's like I would say one of the most famous under 50 composers we have right now for movies and TV.

1:03:00Joanna Robinson:And he talks about how obsessed he is with that James Horner score and it is such a weird score, right? Because you've got the saxophone, which is very 90s, right? And you've got this sort of like smooth saxophone. Marsalis. Yeah, right from Marsalis, like really good stuff. Then you've got the like weird, almost like haunted Tim Burton Christmas, like vocals on there. And then you've got those like pianos off the cliff stuff that they do. And it's just like such a weird, great score. That would have been a good,

1:03:28Bill Simmons:what's the most 1992 thing about this movie is the score feels very early 90s to me.

1:03:33Joanna Robinson:It just feels like three different early 90s scores. Well, Horner is like, he's like, the sound of the 90s, he's doing Titanic and Braveheart. Like, that's like, those are just all big-ass shit. Field of Dreams.

1:03:46Bill Simmons:Aliens, he did. All right. Pick a Hune Burger Award for best use of food and drink. So we never see the pizza in the beginning, but I do think it wins the award. Pepperoni pizza run. and I do wonder should he have gone to get the pizza and brought it back with the box and then

1:04:07Joanna Robinson:Cosmo gets nailed

1:04:08Bill Simmons:so we could have seen the pizza drop the pizza in the snow I'm always pro I just want to see the pizza when somebody's getting pizza in a movie we talk so much about does he care or not that Cosmo was arrested I think he's out there eating the pizza in front of him as he's getting handed away and he's doing the attitude era I think he's doing all that He got the pizza he ate, the whole fucking thing. Oh, man.

1:04:30Joanna Robinson:Tough. Tough.

1:04:33Bill Simmons:Great shot. Great shot Gordon Award, most cinematic shot. Wait, wait, wait.

1:04:36Joanna Robinson:What about the dim sum that Stephen Tobolowsky has stuffed in his face?

1:04:41Bill Simmons:Are we ready for the dim sum bar? That's probably a better answer.

1:04:45Joanna Robinson:Only because we don't get to see the pizza. Because we don't get to see the pizza. Yeah.

1:04:48Bill Simmons:What did you have for Great Shot Gordon Award, Kyle? There's so many candidates. Most cinematic shot? This movie has a million. And mine is maybe like a 10 seed. but when there's a scene when Redford gets thrown out of the moving car and it's this beautiful shot of Alcatraz behind him as the sun's rising. I was like, holy shit. Somebody's cooking there. That's a good one. That was on my list

1:05:09Joanna Robinson:was sunrise on Lombard Street in San Francisco. Because like, it's so hard to get that shot. Like you're in the middle of Lombard Street. But I would say the code reflected on Whistler's glasses is like the icon of the movie.

1:05:25Bill Simmons:Kid Cudi pursuit of happening or Best Needle Drop is clearly guys singing Bad Bad Leroy Brown in Chinese. I have to say. Not talking about ever. I have to say. Bad Bad Leroy Brown. I think I'll download that on Spotify.

1:05:37Joanna Robinson:Warner Brandis, we have some notes, but your first date move is dim sum and karaoke in Chinatown. I think it's a 10 out of 10. I think that's a great first date moment.

1:05:48Bill Simmons:I think there's a case they could have ended up together. That's a hard cut to that guy. It's like, baddest man in the whole day. I laugh every time. It's so good. He's gone.

1:05:58Joanna Robinson:What about Aretha Franklin, Chain of Fools? That would be the other candidate. When Mary McDonald danced with everyone. And Dan Aykroyd has some moves. Did you know that Dan Aykroyd's a great dancer? Look at the credit sequence of The Great Outdoors. He's incredible. Really good dancer. Great point.

1:06:12Bill Simmons:I mean, he landed Donna Dixon. I assume he had a lot of talents. I think he did that. Bill, if he's a good dancer, you know what else he is. Come on. Number one overall pick.

1:06:20Joanna Robinson:I have another question. In the background of that party, you hear Dylan's Everybody Must Get Stained. before he starts singing, you just hear the iconic opening of it. Yeah. Do you have to pay for it if you don't hear Dylan saying, you still have to pay for it, right? And isn't that hideously expensive?

1:06:38Bill Simmons:On TV, you can borrow up to seven seconds and movies, I don't think you can.

1:06:42Joanna Robinson:Yeah.

1:06:42Bill Simmons:I think you have to. I have some questions about that. Chess Rockwell Brocklander's award for best character name. It's got to be a blind guy named Whistler. I don't know. Are we topping that?

1:06:51Joanna Robinson:I think Werner Brandes is really good. I think Gunter Janik is really good. Gunter Yannick. Donald Logue's character. Whistler Mother Kreese. Cosmo. I mean - Well, Cosmo a couple years before Cosmo Kramer. Yeah, true. He just came out of the wire.

1:07:07Bill Simmons:All right, we're taking a break, and then Joanna's got a flex category. All right.

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1:08:11Bill Simmons:All right, Joanna, Flex category, what do you got?

1:08:14Joanna Robinson:Well, we already did, I was, I actually had two because was there a better title for this movie was going to be one of the ones I picked, but we already covered that. Mm-hmm. And the only reason I had to, because I was worried this other one is the most obvious one, which is the Matt Damon and Eurotrip Award for most unexpected A-lister cameo. James Earl. James Earl Jones. Yeah, that's a good one.

1:08:34Bill Simmons:That's fair.

1:08:34Joanna Robinson:Do you think James Earl Jones knows the words to Scotty Doesn't Know? And would you like to hear that? Scotty Doesn't Know.

1:08:47Bill Simmons:With Sora 2, you can.

1:08:49Joanna Robinson:That was not an ad for Sora.

1:08:52Bill Simmons:Oh, no. the Butch's Girlfriend Award for weak link of the film I'm gonna go last because I'm coming in hot what do you got Kyle? alright I just have no fucking idea how that black box works I don't understand I don't know what it means I don't understand the technology it's like it's a magic box it's one of these items like the like the Tesseract or the Sankara Stones or just like just go with it it can hack anything in the world I don't understand the technology or any of that shit and everybody wants it but I don't get it I had it in Pick and Knits. It's basically, it's an encryption breaking chip, but it's magical.

1:09:30Bill Simmons:This is how you have to think about it. Mathematically. This definitely does not exist.

1:09:34Joanna Robinson:How does it connect? Well, we don't know about it. If it does exist, would we know about it? That's the most important part.

1:09:40Bill Simmons:I don't think it would be a chip that could solve everything. Seems unrealistic to me. In 1992, I was like, okay, maybe. Uh-huh. I didn't get it. I still don't get it. All right. I'm coming in way higher than that

1:09:52Joanna Robinson:I think mine might be the same as yours it's Bill Crowhop in here it is Ben Kingsley but I love him in this movie but it's not not Ben Kingsley who's in a different movie altogether what is it

1:10:06Bill Simmons:so I had Ben Kingsley as the weak link yeah I also have him getting three other categories the Judd Nelson in New Jack City award for actor who's in a completely different movie he is the Ruffalo Hannah Rubenick Partridge overacting award Yes. And then a new award, Kyle, just for you. What do you got? The Steven Seagal Award for We Should Have Gotten You a Running Double. Can we talk about his running? Oh, is this what you take for us? Yeah, I take this for you guys.

1:10:35Joanna Robinson:He's the anti-Redford, because Redford's a great movie runner. Oh, this is awesome. He's the anti-Redford. Can you see? The run is tough, yeah.

1:10:43Bill Simmons:Oh. It's a double run.

1:10:44Joanna Robinson:It's a trot.

1:10:46Bill Simmons:He does, but then he does it again. Then he runs over the next thing. It's like he couldn't figure out how to run in loafers or something. What is he doing? How did they not do a second cut? He's like kind of prancing. He's trotting. It's almost like watching somebody run on ice when they have sneakers, like after you win the Stanley Cup. Well, we don't know what the - Somebody's running. We don't know what the mafia did to him in prison.

1:11:08Joanna Robinson:We don't know what the mafia did to him in prison. He's the least cool bad guy.

1:11:11Bill Simmons:He's not scary.

1:11:12Joanna Robinson:That's not true at all because he just ran past a tank full of little sharks.

1:11:16Bill Simmons:I knew Joanna would hate this.

1:11:17Joanna Robinson:No, I don't hate it. I agree with you. Ben Kingsley is like... His hair, like the weird... It's just like Seagal. He's got the ponytail. It's the same year. It's the same run. Actually, Bill, after you showed that video, they're not taking his sir away. It's gone. Oh, it's over. That's the thing.

1:11:32Bill Simmons:You never should get sir when you're running like that. I think that... Either run fast or walk fast, but you can't like do a job, Prince. He runs in there, Bill, and he goes, why is it so hot in here? Hey, better question. What the fuck was that last 10 yards, Cosmo?

1:11:47Joanna Robinson:I, um, when you, when all the actors were interviewed about this movie, there's, they, they know exactly what this movie is, which is like lighthearted entertainment move, right? It's a fun caper movie. Right. And, you know, uh, Ackroyd's like, my character is conspiracy theorist. Phoenix is like, my character is the young guy who wants to be like the other guys. He worships them. And then Ben Hingsley's like, um, my character has no soul, no emotional core. Um, Marty is his emotional. like he's talking about like he's in Shakespeare like he's on a different project all together and he's playing to the rafters.

1:12:20Bill Simmons:He's not doing the movies Kyle and I love and there's we even did like a 1 to 10 scale of bad guys in movies like Jeremy Irons and Die Hard with a Vengeance is a good example like. It's the Hans Gruber scale. I'm the villain but I'm having fun with this. There's going to be some unintentional comedy for you. I'm really going to chew up the scenery. I don't know what Ben Kingsley is doing in this movie necessarily. You don't think when he says modern

1:12:44Joanna Robinson:on the roof. That's not him having fun and chewing up the scenery. You don't think what he says. Joanna, what's going on with the moment? What's the subtext when he goes, don't go? Is he in love with him? Yeah. I'm honestly asking that. Absolutely, he is. Honestly,

1:12:59Bill Simmons:this made me, I had a whole crisis of Ben Kingsley. Oh, you're like, is Ben Kingsley good? Yeah, I started thinking through other Ben Kingsley's parts and I'm like, you know, he's really bad in species but I kind of enjoy how bad he is because I don't think He wants to be in the movie.

1:13:13Joanna Robinson:Yeah.

1:13:14Bill Simmons:In Searching for Bobby Fischer, he's kind of a psychopath.

1:13:19Joanna Robinson:This take is too hot for... Keep cooking, Bill. No, keep cooking, because you're right. Come on, baby. He creates like, I want a social clip out of this. Is Ben Kingsley bad, actually?

1:13:27Bill Simmons:Are we sure Ben Kingsley is good? Are we sure he could have gotten served? But I'm with Kyle, because...

1:13:35Joanna Robinson:Gandhi, Schindler's List. But you missed The Sopranos.

1:13:37Bill Simmons:He's so fucking good in The Sopranos episode with Christopher that I think he is good. I just think he feels like he has to do something different in each movie. And sometimes the choice doesn't work.

1:13:48Joanna Robinson:He's trying really hard in this movie and everyone else is just having a lot of fun.

1:13:52Bill Simmons:Your feelings seem hurt. What do you got? Oh, no, my feelings are soaring. I think it's absolutely hilarious that Bill thinks the weak link of this movie is a 10 second period in which Ben Kingsley runs. And I think it's funny. And I get it. You know, because he's doing the power stride with the remote and that's fine. But there's such a chasm between running and walking. He walks fine. the run is instantly terrible. It's hard to run. But what about the different accents? He never picks an accent and why does Cosmo have to have an accent?

1:14:17Joanna Robinson:I don't know. No reason. He could have used his natural accent. He's going to Union College.

1:14:20Bill Simmons:What is he?

1:14:21Joanna Robinson:And also, I've heard Ben Kingsley do an American accent. He can do it okay. I don't know what choices he's making in this movie but it's very strange. He's like, I'm going to take over the world, Marty. And then he's like, will you step away from the ladder? And I'm like, holy shit, which one is that, Cosmo? It's a disaster. Yeah, what?

1:14:35Bill Simmons:It's like, I was trying like a Bronx accent. I don't know. I had for a recasting couch for this. William Hurt.

1:14:44Joanna Robinson:Well, what's funny is that Ben Kingsley is like over 10 years younger than Robert Redford. So it is weird to have them as like old buddies from college. Almost trying to look older.

1:14:53Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:14:53Joanna Robinson:Like more gray in his hair and stuff like that.

1:14:55Bill Simmons:John Voight doing his Coach Bud Kilmer like evil guy move.

1:15:00Joanna Robinson:You don't think that like isn't Voight in a completely different movie in Varsity Blues? like it would bring the same energy I know y 'all have a good time it would be the same energy it would be unhinged energy I would I would happily take it

1:15:13Bill Simmons:William Hurt no I think William Hurt

1:15:16Joanna Robinson:is too normal for what you need in Cosmo you need a guy who went to prison and like lost his marbles how about how about you want someone who lost his marbles how about Willem Dafoe yeah there it is Willem Dafoe

1:15:29Bill Simmons:that's a really good one that's a great one yeah I mean instead of him doing uh Speed 2. I guess that was a little bit later. Anyway, I can't wait for the social clip where we showed Ben Kingsley running multiple times. Can we put him with the skull? I'm going to retweet it. Then I'm going to take the retweet logo off and un-retweet it and then retweet it again so I can just keep powering the retweets. That's a pro move. Hit it again. I love it. What's age the worst? You mentioned Redford. He was 56 when he made this movie. He's just too old to be in this movie, but I'm fine with it. I'm not arguing, but if he's in the late 60s and this movie's in 1992 that's 23 years so even if he's like a grad school student in union you're still in your mid 40s when you're in this movie and he's 56

1:16:16Joanna Robinson:something that the screenwriters talked about is that again they worked on this from like right after War Games to when it came out so for 10 years and they said every time they came back to the screenplay they just changed Marty's age to their age Marty was always their age but they were only like 42 when they made the movie. So like I think Marty's trying like Redford's trying to go for early 40s and this failing but trying.

1:16:41Bill Simmons:There's a story though Kyle from our guy Robinson the director. He was at Kevin Costner's Oscar party the night he went with Dancing with Wolves a CA agent came up to him they're making sneakers at this point and he's trying to get Bob in the movie and he's like Bob who? He said Redford for what movie? Sneakers. for what role? The lead. And he said, no, no, no. The character's my age. It's a lot younger. And then he said, all right, just send it to him. I don't want to insult him. He's one of my idols. Okay. And then he read it. And when Robert Redford wants to do your movie and you're Phil Autumn Robinson.

1:17:20Joanna Robinson:You say yes.

1:17:20Bill Simmons:You say yes.

1:17:21Joanna Robinson:And everyone follows Robert Redford. Like that's how they get everyone in.

1:17:24Bill Simmons:That's why there's no casting what ifs for this movie.

1:17:26Joanna Robinson:Yeah, exactly.

1:17:27Bill Simmons:Because everyone's like, Redford's in?

1:17:28Joanna Robinson:I'm in.

1:17:30Bill Simmons:How many actors and later unanswerable questions. I don't want to insult you, Joanna, because I know you love this movie. I love Raw for it. So do I. I already insulted her with the Ben Kingsley stuff. Don't worry.

1:17:39Joanna Robinson:I'm uninsulted. I'm living my best life. I'm doing sneakers rewatchables. I couldn't be happier. All right. Is this a better movie with Kevin Costner in the lead? Just hear me out. I think he's slightly funnier than Robert Redford. He could be just as charming. He's a little younger. And if you put Willem Dafoe as Cosmo, you get the band back together with Mary McDonnell and James Earl. It might be a better movie. I wouldn't hate it because I do love this era of Costner a lot.

1:18:05Bill Simmons:Costner would have been great.

1:18:06Joanna Robinson:But I love that Robert Redford did this movie.

1:18:08Bill Simmons:I think it's an important Redford catalog movie. He needs it. But you're right. Costner is really good in this movie. Definitely. If he's in it.

1:18:15Joanna Robinson:Absolutely. Yes.

1:18:16Bill Simmons:More Wood's Age is the worst. So, listen, I love Scrabble. Huge Simmons family game. But I wonder, like, if this movie was made now, would it be like they're playing Block Blast or Roblox? Does anyone play Scrabble in 2025? People play Scrabble. When was the last time Scrabble happened?

1:18:32Joanna Robinson:I play Scrabble with my nephews. People play Scrabble.

1:18:35Bill Simmons:Younger people are playing Scrabble still?

1:18:37Joanna Robinson:Yeah.

1:18:38Bill Simmons:Craig?

1:18:38Joanna Robinson:It's like a board game. When was the last time you broke out a Scrabble board? Look, I haven't played Scrabble in a while, but that doesn't mean it's too old. Also, like Redford's 56 in this movie. Yeah. You know, what would you be playing now?

1:18:49Bill Simmons:I'm just, I'm thinking about, for what's age the worst, seeing Scrabble pieces, which I think really meant something in 1992, because Scrabble and Monopoly were like the big two. Yeah, I don't know. I think there's still a kind of a nostalgic love for Scrabble in 25. The seduction scene in the math guy's office is too silly.

1:19:07Joanna Robinson:I leave message on service, but you do not call.

1:19:11Bill Simmons:It becomes an SNL sketch for two minutes. Let's do what we did in Mexico City, baby. I didn't know you could do that in Mexico City. Anything else, Kyle, for what's age the worst? No, we covered all mine. Okay.

1:19:25Joanna Robinson:I have one.

1:19:26Bill Simmons:Okay.

1:19:26Joanna Robinson:I think most of David Strathairn as Whistler is good. It could be dicey in the early 90s. But I think the dancing. I might do another take on the dancing, which is a little too TV wonder for my taste.

1:19:40Bill Simmons:Kyle, you have a flex category. Okay. I was going to go rock band Cootie's Rat Semen, who would totally be on the band's work tour. But instead, I'm going to go the Mallory Rubin did this movie Need a Better Sex Scene. and you think that I'm going to say that it's Bish and Liz. It's not. It's Carl and Mary at the fucking end of the movie. I have always loved Mary with the Uzi. I always thought she was a total babe. Her name's Amy Benedict. She's worked consistently for 30 years. She's the babysitter in 30-something who I think had an affair with somebody, right? Perfect. Yeah. I feel like Carl deserved some love at the end of the movie.

1:20:17And Bill, I'm sorry, Joanne, I'm going to defile this podcast, but Bill, I'd like to officially induct Carl into the Rudy Rudiger horny Hall of Fame characters. Carl is in. Loudon Swain from Vision Quest is in. And Bill, you nominated both Wyatt and Gary from Weird Science.

1:20:34Bill Simmons:Yes. They're in and Carl is in. Joel Goodson? At the strength of getting the phone number. Yes. Who else? Joel Goodson has to be in. Joel Goodson, without a doubt, in the suburbs of Chicago. He's a first ballot guy. And so is Carl.

1:20:47Joanna Robinson:Okay, do you think if it's 1992, we have the same terrible poster, the same terrible title, But the tagline is, there's a River Phoenix sex scene in this. Do you think this movie does better? Yes, as long as it's married. There's a River Phoenix sex scene. I think everything goes better. River gets some.

1:21:05Bill Simmons:They push River Phoenix. Everything's good. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford's hottest take award. What do you have, Joanna? Okay.

1:21:14Joanna Robinson:My tepid take is, this is Redford's best film of the 90s, and I don't think it's particularly close. my hotter take is I think this is Redford's last great movie if barring his Marvel movies directorial yeah directorial doesn't count barring his Marvel movies there's a different thing altogether

1:21:30Bill Simmons:for acting I would agree

1:21:31Joanna Robinson:yeah this is the last great movie people would put

1:21:33Bill Simmons:Chris Show as a but he directed it but he directed it

1:21:36Joanna Robinson:I'm not talking about Chris Show is unimpeachable but like there's a couple late late Redford stuff that people stump for but I think this is it this is his last great movie what do you have Kyle? mine's got some heat on it Oh, boy. I'm ready. Marty Bishop doing the slow walk across Cosmo's office and back is more impressive to me than anything Ethan Hunt ever did in a Mission Impossible movie. Let me lay it down for you. Wow. I'm with you. I had Is This Better than Mission Impossible. This is a 56-year-old man who has been knocked unconscious three times in the last couple days. he is doing this in a room that is 98.6 degrees and the shotguns are coming for him if he goes three inches per second instead of two either hunt learned to hold his breath for a long time la dee da dee da everything he did is physical and can be trained with some balls over enough time bish poise focus when i was a kid and i watched this movie i used to try to walk across my room holding like a slaughtered cd and trying to do this and after like 20 seconds i just get bored with it and stop.

1:22:43It's fucking impossible. I think it's incredible that he pulled it off.

1:22:46Joanna Robinson:Kyle, it's so generous that at the start of this podcast, you're like, Joanna, you might be a better sneakers fan than I am when you used to sort of like practice Bish's slow walk across Cosmo's office. I mean, this is why

1:22:57Bill Simmons:the three of us are here. If either of you had been left out, I don't know if it would have been reputable.

1:23:03Joanna Robinson:That's an incredible anecdote. I love to know that.

1:23:05Bill Simmons:I should, Kyle should have gone last. No, go on. What do you got? Beat the three. Mine is, it's not incredibly hot. It's not as good as what you just did. but I think in 2025, right now, when you think of all the people that are alive in the world and how many people like under 40 there are, I think this might be his most popular movie. Okay. Go on.

1:23:28Joanna Robinson:Redford's most popular movie?

1:23:29Bill Simmons:Yeah. Because like The Sting, Butch Cassidy, I just don't think people under 40 are ever watching those. Or unless like we're really bullying them.

1:23:37Joanna Robinson:He made a movie called Captain America Winter Soldier and then he made a movie called Avengers Endgame.

1:23:41Bill Simmons:But that's not his movie. Winter Soldier doesn't count as a red-pick movie. There's one movie. Go ahead, Jermaine. Go ahead.

1:23:49Joanna Robinson:Well, if you're like, what do young people know him from? They know him from Captain America and Winter Soldier.

1:23:55Bill Simmons:I'm saying most popular movie that he was the front of. I would have said The Natural forever, but I don't even know if The Natural has aged the same way. Like in the 90s, you would have said The Natural, no question.

1:24:06Joanna Robinson:I think it's Butch Cassidy. Honestly, just like in terms of where it stands.

1:24:10Bill Simmons:I don't know how many people are watching Butch Cassidy anymore, though. That's what worries me. I would have said all the presidents of it is the other one. I know what you're saying. I always say, like, if I showed it to my son, could he make it through the movie? There's one movie that relies on infamy, and it's indecent proposal. And the whole thing about million bucks to be with Demi Moore for the night, that is a concept. Like a relevancy? Yeah. Yeah, like, even that gimmick, if you remade it, it would be interesting. Just the fact that you could do that, and you make it$100 million for a night.

1:24:38Like, that one may be, but I see what you're saying with the sneakers.

1:24:40Bill Simmons:I think the answer might be all the president's men though. It's either... That's true because that just comes up

1:24:45Joanna Robinson:every couple months in the current political landscape that we live in. Still the best journalism movie ever. Let's put it back on.

1:24:52Bill Simmons:Casting what ifs. We don't have any.

1:24:55Joanna Robinson:Mary Steenburgen as Liz.

1:24:56Bill Simmons:I saw that. I disregarded it. Okay. It said she was considered. Steenburgen was everywhere. When I say considered...

1:25:01Joanna Robinson:I saw it. I didn't care.

1:25:02Bill Simmons:It's like saying Van Lathan was considered for the sneakers podcast.

1:25:07Joanna Robinson:Yeah.

1:25:07Bill Simmons:What does considered mean? Somebody mentioned once... Okay. Best that guy Timothy Busfield Not eligible No You know who is eligible? Our guy Steven Tobolowsky All time that guy I think

1:25:20Joanna Robinson:I sat next to Steven Tobolowsky At a wedding once And we shared an Uber Back to the hotel

1:25:25Bill Simmons:How was he? Is that where it ended?

1:25:27Joanna Robinson:That's where it ended That sounded like A romantic guy That's where the evening ended

1:25:30Bill Simmons:I was married To Steven Tobolowsky Wow Joanna Was he like Joanna would you like To have breakfast with me? Should I phone you Or nudge you?

1:25:37Joanna Robinson:You know what Is the best nutrition? The bottom of a monkey cage I read that somewhere. Yeah, yeah. Warner Brandes. He's great. Phil? Yeah.

1:25:45Bill Simmons:Phil Connors? Here's my question. Is there a better three-year that guy run? Go on. Pantoliano accepted? Yeah. Then Thelma and Louise, Basic Instinct, Single White Female, Sneakers, and Groundhog Day? All in three years? It's a great run. It's in three years. Tobolowsky has an awesome one-scene part in Spaceballs as well. Oh, yeah, yeah. Where they capture the stunt doubles. he's just he's so so good he has a podcast now he talks about this stuff he's loved this movie i think if you're ranking tobe if we did tobelosky rankings groundhog day's gotta still be number one phil can i tell you no it was ned ned the head yes the best the my friend's wedding who uh i sat

1:26:26Joanna Robinson:next to that friend is like the first person i ever podcasted with david chen and the first time i ever talked to him on the phone he called me and he's like oh wait hold on i have someone on the other line and he's like oh i'm gonna patch them through and it was steven tobelosky and Basically, he had Steven. I've never called him on this, but I'm pretty sure he got Steven Tobolowsky on the line to impress me so that I would do a podcast with him. Wow. It was really, really funny. I bet it worked. It did work. Yeah, and then we wound up at his wedding. Phil? Got the shingles real bad senior year.

1:26:58Yeah. Phil?

1:27:00Bill Simmons:Is he first Ballot Hall of Fame for that guy? He's got to be, right? 100%. I also think he doesn't. His name is hard to remember, which I think factors into the that guy rankings. If he had a really cool, memorable name that was easy to kind of recall.

1:27:12Joanna Robinson:You don't think Tobolowsky's a cool name? No, I think it gets jumbled up.

1:27:13Bill Simmons:I gotta say, I forgot his name again. Of course. And we've done, this is one, two, three rewatchables with him. If his name was like Mac Jones, you would never forget that. But Stephen Tobolowsky.

1:27:23Joanna Robinson:I think you should rename this the Stephen Tobolowsky Best That Guy Award.

1:27:27Bill Simmons:Well, it's already named after Joe Pantelato.

1:27:29Joanna Robinson:But I think you should put Tobo on there. Donald Logue is also in this movie. He's telling me to fuck myself.

1:27:38Bill Simmons:Nobody beats Joey Pitts.

1:27:39Joanna Robinson:Okay, fine. I also do think that Eddie Jones, who's also in A League of Their Own, and the Grifters, and Rocketeer. He's a good...

1:27:47Bill Simmons:So that's a really good that guy, because I didn't even know what that guy's name was. Yeah. DM Waiters, James Earl Jones. Can we just move on?

1:27:54Joanna Robinson:But I would... No, but also, Amy Benedict is Mary. I think that's like a good... Shout out to Mary. I love Amy Benedict. We love Mary. She does hit a couple threes. James Earl was like stone cold at WrestleMania, just kicking ass and clearing the ring. Also, fun fact, she gives him a 415 number which is a real Bay Area area code and for a while that you could call that number and you got a - Yeah, they owned it, right?

1:28:15Bill Simmons:Yeah, you got a little

1:28:16Joanna Robinson:like message of like go see sneakers. I think we should do that more, Craig. Awesome. I agree. When Kyle and I do

1:28:20Bill Simmons:our action movie, we're gonna do a real phone number.

1:28:23Joanna Robinson:I love a phone number. Yeah. We'll just buy the phone number and then we'll be like

1:28:26Bill Simmons:an actual people could call it. Recasting couch, we already did it. Unless there's another recasting. No, I'm good. All right. Craig, you have a flex category. Come on, Craig. I'm going positive, which might surprise you. I'm doing Den of Thieves, scene-stealing location. I think San Francisco, the area, is the best movie location. Hell yeah. Straight up. I think it's the most diverse. You have water, you have skyscrapers, the streets, the hills. Bridges. The bridges. I feel like you can kind of do anything. And I think the first hour of this movie is a little slow, and I honestly think it picks up the second they go outside.

1:29:02and you start to see the bridge and you kind of realize you're in San Francisco, it super picks up. You know, Vertigo, Mrs. Doubtfire, Big Trouble in Little China. There's so many great San Francisco movies that I think it's the, you can do the most with San Francisco compared to like New York, Chicago, or LA. That's a good take.

1:29:19Bill Simmons:You know,

1:29:19Joanna Robinson:I really agree as someone from the Bay Area. I'm from the Bay Area. Thank you so much. Sucking up to Joanna. No, but also I think The Rock, another good San Francisco movie. This is such a good Bay Area, like as I said, Bay Area movie. They didn't film, the tunnel scene where they kill the Russian guy, Greg, was not filmed in the Rainbow Tunnel, but it might as well be. You feel like you're in the Bay Area. There's enough external shots. You get a cable car. You get all the things that you need. You just think you can do the most with it. Yeah, it's a great take.

1:29:48Bill Simmons:You know, it bums me out because San Francisco versus Boston, there's been a little rivalry about what's a cooler city to go visit, live in, all that. You know, very similar. They're bookends to each other. And San Francisco's always translated way better in movies. and I just got I got to hand it to them

1:30:04Joanna Robinson:there's more distinct landmarks even like

1:30:05Bill Simmons:like random movies like So I Married an Axe Murderer yeah yeah basic instinct like movies that especially when we do like the drive whether you can see the water and we got like the weird cliffs and stuff and they go up to

1:30:18Joanna Robinson:wine country at some point the car Mike Myers drives the same that same orange car and So I Married an Axe Murderer I feel like it was just like a San Francisco car they had around hey did you also hear Robert Redford wears the same leather jacket in two movies too the same exact one identical

1:30:33Bill Simmons:I'm with you on San Francisco good one Craig half-assed earner research so they pranked Robinson they had a visit from the office of naval intelligence who was trying to get him to change the script because it was divulging too much stuff and it turned out it was a prank and he was like freaked out about it and got a lawyer and then it was probably like Redford because it was pranked Redford loved pranks, he was a big prankster Like Clooney, same thing. The character, there's a lot of stuff about the characters based on people who were famous.

1:31:06Joanna Robinson:Yeah, Cap 'n Crunch.

1:31:07Bill Simmons:Yeah, you can Google that if you want.

1:31:10Joanna Robinson:Well, here's what I'll say about the phone freakers, the inspirations for all these guys.

1:31:15Bill Simmons:The character names, all that stuff.

1:31:16Joanna Robinson:Something to contextualize it is that Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak were phone freakers. They started by selling these blue boxes, which you could use. there's like a shot at Ma Bell in this movie, right? You gotta take money from Ma Bell, right? Yeah. So they founded, like the Apple fortune starts with these two guys illegally defrauding the phone company. And that's like a Silicon Valley dream origin story. And that's the kind of guys that this is dealing with.

1:31:48Bill Simmons:I never knew about that Captain Crunch whistle thing as like you could hack into phone calls and stuff. I didn't either. I just, is that like one of those things like Paul from Wonder Years as Marilyn Manson? I don't know. Very strange.

1:32:01Joanna Robinson:I mean, that's real. Yeah.

1:32:03Bill Simmons:So the professor they used to help them with like the consulting, Professor Len Adelman, one of the three mathematicians who invented the RSA crypto system.

1:32:16Joanna Robinson:The ANRSA.

1:32:18Bill Simmons:Much later. Yeah, they had kind of a dream team of people helping them out with this.

1:32:23Joanna Robinson:So he wrote all the Yannick lecture notes. Yeah. And what he says there, which is like actual real math, I guess. But did you see the fact that the reason they got Len Alderman to do this is he wanted his wife to be able to meet Robert Redford? And it reminded me of, I don't remember if you guys said this on the Tin Cup rewatchables, but it reminds me of the story of how they got all the actual golf guys in Tin Cup, is that they just trotted Costner and Don Johnson around to all of their wives. Oh, yeah, yeah, that is true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, damn. So this is what they were like, your wife can meet Robert Redford if you do this favor for us.

1:32:58Joanna Robinson:It's great. It's a great trick to have.

1:33:01Bill Simmons:We'll take one more break and then we'll do Apex Mountain. This episode is brought to you by Netflix. The World Cup is finally here and the coolest thing right now, FIFA World Cup launch edition on Netflix, a fast and fluid game where your phone is the controller and your TV is the stadium. Play as any of the 48 teams in 16 real world stadiums and it's included in your membership. Yeah. Go to the games tab on your TV and play FIFA World Cup launch edition now. Only on Netflix. Apex Mountain, Redford, obviously not.

1:33:33Joanna Robinson:No.

1:33:35Bill Simmons:It's probably not for River Phoenix, but what is River Phoenix's Apex Mountain?

1:33:40Joanna Robinson:Stand By Me or My Own Private Idaho or Running on Empty. I would say Idaho.

1:33:48Bill Simmons:Sydney Poitier, no way. 1967. Great in the movie, though. Absolutely killing it. Actually, one of the best Apex mountaineers anyone ever had, 67.

1:33:58Joanna Robinson:Yeah?

1:33:58Bill Simmons:Won the Oscar. He had like two of the biggest movies. Like, he was just...

1:34:01Joanna Robinson:Killing it.

1:34:02Bill Simmons:Yeah, crushing it. Act right now. Weird Ben Kingsley performances. That's species. I still think species, right? He's fucking nuts in species. But that movie is... He tries to lock Madsen and Mark Helgeberger in the glass case. Keep them in there! Murder them! This movie's about guys who sneak around in a bank because that movie's about a woman's tongue goes through the back of somebody's head. Like, it's gotta be that.

1:34:26Joanna Robinson:I saw that on HBO way too young and I just, it changed me forever. It's one of the classics.

1:34:31Bill Simmons:Walking one inch per hour to evade security sensors? Sure. This has to be it, right? Sure. And yes.

1:34:36Joanna Robinson:Scrabble tiles? Yes.

1:34:38Bill Simmons:The name Cosmo in a piece of pop culture? I'm gonna still say Seinfeld. Gotta be Seinfeld. Although there was a Cosmo renaissance here in the early 90s.

1:34:46Joanna Robinson:Yeah.

1:34:49Bill Simmons:Geese sounding like a cocktail party.

1:34:53Joanna Robinson:they stole that from it. That's in a different movie as well. They took that from a different movie. Okay. But I love it. I did not write it down. Mary McDonald characters. That's some half-ass internet research for you. But would you watch it? Would you do a double feature of Geese sounding like cocktail party? Yeah, it needed to be covered on all things sleeper. So yes, absolutely. I'll text it to you later. All right, please.

1:35:13Bill Simmons:Mary McDonald characters being seduced by old flames. Probably this over blue chips. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Mary McDonald now at Stance with the Wolves. How about Braille Playboy? Seen Braille Playboy? Oh, Braille Playboy. Awesome. In a movie before? That's how we were back then, Bill. I would have looked at a Braille Playboy just to get my hands on it. I don't even know what it means. Whoa, this is great. This feels like one. And then helium voice jokes. The answer is no, but this movie reminded me how much helium voice humor is just going to get me every time.

1:35:49Joanna Robinson:It's key to the 90s.

1:35:50Bill Simmons:What is it about helium voices? It's like the whoopee cushion of performance art. It really is. It's just the stupidest, dumbest gag, but it's always funny. Craig, it still plays in 2025, right? 100%. I've done it many times.

1:36:01Joanna Robinson:That's eternal. It's fun to do. Transcends generations. I don't know.

1:36:05Bill Simmons:How bad is it for you? I think it's horrible. Is it terrible or is it okay? I think that's why Kanye went crazy.

1:36:12Joanna Robinson:Craig, how often are you doing it? It's a mini whippet. I don't know.

1:36:15Bill Simmons:I've probably done it five times in my life. I think it'll be okay. This is what happened to Kanye. Too many helium balloons? Too many helium hits. Cruz or Hanks?

1:36:26Joanna Robinson:This is Hanks. It's a perfect Hanks role, although I think it'd be funny if Cruz was in it and had to do the slow walk because he's known for running. Right. I think it would be, Cosmo would have to re-engineer his office that if you walk slower than 20 miles an hour, you're dead. So that's the only way Cruz does it.

1:36:44Bill Simmons:It's clearly Hanks. In 92, I think actually Hanks could have done it. Could have played older. but can I just throw out older Cruz, maybe 2005 range Cruz as Cosmo?

1:36:58Joanna Robinson:As Cosmo?

1:37:00Bill Simmons:As Cosmo.

1:37:02Joanna Robinson:Does he have the Magnolia ponytail?

1:37:04Bill Simmons:He's got a weird hairdo.

1:37:06Joanna Robinson:Yeah.

1:37:07Bill Simmons:He's got Vanilla Sky kind of energy.

1:37:09Joanna Robinson:Okay, Vanilla Sky energy plus Magnolia.

1:37:11Bill Simmons:He's running is way better than Kingsley. TJ Mackie hair. No accent. Yeah, he's got TJ Mackie hair. Yeah. He's way more angry about getting ditched during the pizza. A little almost like collateral. Dorothy, it's about the information. I don't know if I could take it. Tame the box. All right, we'll go with Hanks. Scorsese or Spielberg? Clearly Spielberg. Spielberg. This is very Spielberg-y. I think if it's Scorsese, you got De Niro as Bish, and you got Pesci as Cosmo, and it's just a whole different movie. It's like, I fucking told you, pepperoni pizza, you hippie fucker. And it's just... They're definitely doing cocaine in the...

1:37:50Yeah. In Union College. Rolling Stones and all that shit.

1:37:53Bill Simmons:What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? Clearly, Aykroyd's part. No, in 92?

1:37:59Joanna Robinson:River Phoenix's role.

1:38:00Bill Simmons:Well, but you can have Hoffman at any point.

1:38:02Joanna Robinson:I know, but remember in like early Hoffman when he was doing... Like in Twister, like he's doing kind of these like doofy... Yeah, you're right. She's right. Yeah, she's right. Yeah, Dusty from Twister.

1:38:14Bill Simmons:Mm-hmm. picking nits that we haven't done

1:38:18Joanna Robinson:um okay uh oh given that River Phoenix gets to the office through the vents in the ceiling did they need the Warner Brandes voice passport at all like maybe Bish could have just done what Carl did I mean he's 56 so I don't know if he could have but uh he could have someone One could have on the team. That's a good question. Okay.

1:38:47Bill Simmons:I have a picky knit off that picky knit.

1:38:49Joanna Robinson:Okay.

1:38:50Bill Simmons:Only in movies are these ceiling vents this easy to just crawl around in. In real life, this would be the seventh circle of hell. There would be rodent poop and just all kinds of awful stuff. It would be pitch black. There'd be just nothing good about being in a ceiling. And in movies, they make it just seem like you can move around like it's a fun maze. In Mission Impossible 1, a rat shows up in the ceiling vent that he's in. Yeah. But I also think the entry points. I don't know about you guys. Anytime I'm in an elevator or like a public bathroom, I always look at the vents to see if I needed to crawl out if I could.

1:39:22They're like eight inches by eight inches. They're tiny. I always do that. Every elevator? I do it all the time. You do vent checks? You check your escape routes? Could I McLean this thing if I had to? I'm going to start doing that.

1:39:35Joanna Robinson:I love that.

1:39:35Bill Simmons:At least you're not doing it hoping the silence of the lambs cop isn't bleeding to death over the elevator.

1:39:41Joanna Robinson:What's Apex Mountain for ceiling vent climbing? And is it the scene in Jurassic Park when Lex falls to the ceiling and it's clearly her stunt double and she looks up and they've like CGI replaced her face with a little girl's face. But she's got the guns of a, the mad guns. Ceiling vent falls all time. Yeah. Well, I mean, I just think ceiling vent, I think just come out to the coast. Yeah, have a feel. if he left. Great point. I think it's gotta be that. McClane. John's got it.

1:40:09Bill Simmons:Fair. Marty never tried to find Cosmo ever. Never tried to make sure he was dead. Just never gave it up. Oh, he must be dead in prison. Okay. If you heard somebody

1:40:21Joanna Robinson:died in prison, would your first thought be maybe he didn't?

1:40:25Bill Simmons:Was he friends with Cosmo's parents? Did he check in?

1:40:28Joanna Robinson:No, he's underground. He's on the run.

1:40:33Bill Simmons:Cosmo's accent. we discussed. Disaster. Why did Cosmo... Why did he want the black box this badly?

1:40:43Joanna Robinson:Because the government can't have it. If the government has it, then he can't do what he wants to do, which is steal everyone's money, question mark? What's his plan? That's my thing.

1:40:58Bill Simmons:That's where I'm getting.

1:40:59Joanna Robinson:What's his plan?

1:41:00Bill Simmons:What's his plan? Just to disrupt? Or did he want to be rich? because then he says, I don't want anyone to be rich. I think he just wants to take the money and distribute it evenly among everybody, which is insane. It doesn't make sense. So he cares about all people, but is also threatening people and shooting them and telling people to be murdered?

1:41:18Joanna Robinson:You can't say, I want a socialist communist utopia and have mini sharks in a tank in your office.

1:41:26Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:41:26Joanna Robinson:You can't wear loafers that are too expensive to run in. I don't understand the character at all.

1:41:30Bill Simmons:Yeah, he's evil, but he's not evil, but he's thinking about everybody else, but then he's murdering his best friend. What's going on with Cosmo? What he should do is spend the money on a treadmill and a trainer so he can learn how to run. Or loafers that have better grip.

1:41:45Joanna Robinson:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's get him some new balance. You just scuff up the bottoms of those loafers.

1:41:49Bill Simmons:My last pick in it is Redford and Mary McDonnell have the exact same haircut and it's disorienting if you really study it.

1:41:56Joanna Robinson:It's very feathered.

1:41:57Bill Simmons:It's the exact same.

1:41:57Joanna Robinson:It's very feathered.

1:41:59Bill Simmons:In fact, they could have switched hair during the movie and you wouldn't have even noticed. This is two years after Demi Moore's haircut in Ghost, and it was showing up everywhere. It was a very, very hot haircut. It's very flowy. We've seen it. It was in vogue. I'm not surprised that it shows up in this movie. It's really, really annoying to me that after they pulled off the heist of the century that Mary McDonnell does the Deshaun Jackson at the one-yard line and does her stupid line about the computer dating and blows the whole fucking thing. It drives me nuts that she even says that. and then he figures it out immediately.

1:42:35She blows it completely.

1:42:36Bill Simmons:Yeah, just, you already won. Yeah, it is like the holding the ball at the half-inch line. So Di Mercado on the Cardinals just did it against the Titans. It's very hot right now. I don't know because... Just keep your mouth shut and get out of the office. Thank you!

1:42:50Joanna Robinson:But she's playing this whole role the whole time, which is like, the only way she gets out of this is to act so annoyed and discredit Tobolowsky's character, right? She's like Werner. Like, she's pulling this whole attitude. So it's like part of that was the walk off Joanna. Werner was her walk off line. Get in the end zone. The other thing I have is wildly different. It really bothers me in the last scene. Then when when Sidney Poitier, he said, you will buy us two first class tickets all over Europe and Tahiti. He doesn't mention anything about hotel or accommodations. Where are they going to stay in those places?

1:43:23That's very expensive. If he goes to Tahiti, it's all about the over the water bungalows. All he says is airfare. And that's always bothered me. What about the all expense paid?

1:43:32Joanna Robinson:that's what he needs to say he needs to say that all expense paid yeah

1:43:35Bill Simmons:like a week later James Earl Jones' sidekick is calling him hey just following up on the trip good question how does that happen yeah

1:43:45Joanna Robinson:also they're well whatever they're hackers with a moral code I guess but I learned in war games that you could just hack your way into a flight anywhere and it's not a problem so

1:43:52Bill Simmons:any other nitpicks or can I move on no I'm good sequel prequel prestige TV all black cast are untouchable I rarely do the sequel answer for this we could get more not against it Stinkers 2 2027

1:44:07Joanna Robinson:but Redford's gone and Poitier's gone and Phoenix is gone

1:44:11Bill Simmons:somebody's kid okay

1:44:13Joanna Robinson:yeah it's like heat they just make them younger actors now we'll rock it along do we get Ben Kingsley back though? Sir Ben Kingsley? maybe he finally should figure out the exit yeah

1:44:24Bill Simmons:Stinkers 2 I'm in

1:44:26Joanna Robinson:I mean I wouldn't

1:44:27Bill Simmons:would you here's the thing Stinkers 2 is out They've made a trailer for it. You're not clicking on the Sneakers 2 trailer to see what's going on?

1:44:36Joanna Robinson:How do you feel about Heat 2?

1:44:40Bill Simmons:Not ready to answer that question. Oh, Bill.

1:44:43Joanna Robinson:That's how I feel. What about a Kreese prequel? How Kreese got kicked out of the CIA? That's all great. Yes. The answers to this are all right, except if they made Sneakers 2, they're so bad at making titles, they'd call it like Sneakers 2 sneakier. Still sneaking. Oh, fuck off with that. Sneaky.

1:45:01Bill Simmons:or sneakier. Yeah, you're right. That's what it would be called. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Mad Dog Russo, Doris Burke, Buffalo Bill, Sam Jackson, Nell Byron Mayo, Tony Romo, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainville, Long Legs, or Wilford Brimley in the firm? Kyle, I know you have something cooking. Bet your ass I do, Bill. And I go, none of the above, but if we go to that surveillance truck outside of the fortress at the end and I see all those monitors, I know for a fact that Scott Hansen is standing in there just watching the action. We go to Playtronics, the future of toys.

1:45:34Let's start on CosmoCam. Preposterous ponytail, nonsensical rhetoric. Give me the CarlCam. Carl started his own private inferno at 98.6 degrees, but let's go to the BishCam. Next-gen stats, one inch per second. Let's go to RoofCam, guys. Can we go to the RoofCam? Yes, the RoofCam, where answering machines become boxes and boxes become answering machines. wow oh my god that was extraordinary

1:46:02Bill Simmons:the best part of this is does Joanna know what that was great question

1:46:07Joanna Robinson:no but I loved it also you got increasingly flushed as you went oh yeah and I was just like former actor well I know Scott does it for 7 hours I did it for 30 seconds it's amazing so he was

1:46:19Bill Simmons:that was Scott Hansen from the red zone on Sundays with NFL

1:46:22Joanna Robinson:thanks for explaining it

1:46:24Bill Simmons:there's 8 games at once and Scott like maniacally takes you from game to game Let's go to Arizona. So that was that. Thanks for that, Bill.

1:46:32Joanna Robinson:I appreciate it.

1:46:33Bill Simmons:I like to explain NFL and Sopranos to you.

1:46:35Joanna Robinson:I like when you make me feel included. It means a lot.

1:46:39Bill Simmons:So, speaking of Kyle's acting, I just want to get this out. I don't know why you weren't in Chad Powers. You're right there. You work for the NFL, technically. I work at Omaha, too. You acted. It's a college football show where the actors can be older because they're like a Division II thing. I don't know why you weren't the running back. I don't know why you weren't the wide receiver coach. Just as your friend on your behalf, I was insulted. Bill, thank you. You're right there. Thank you. Do we have the TikTok cam going on this? Send this to Eli and Peyton, who have been very nice to me. I would have been ready to do it.

1:47:17I don't know.

1:47:17Bill Simmons:You're right there. How many actors slash former football players slash in the NFL universe are there at this point?

1:47:25Joanna Robinson:Season two? And you know who else was right there?

1:47:27Bill Simmons:Craig. Long time football fan. Moved out here and now had to act.

1:47:30Joanna Robinson:Chad Power season two? Should we call Michael Waldron, get you and Chad Power season two? I would love that. But you know, the Glenn Powell project I want to be in more is The Running Man so I can play Dynamo and sing opera. I'm into that. Thank you though, Bill.

1:47:43Bill Simmons:As I was appalled that they were remaking The Running Man. Obviously, even though I love Glenn Powell. Saw the trailer.

1:47:48Joanna Robinson:You're in.

1:47:49Bill Simmons:In the movie theater. You're in.

1:47:50Joanna Robinson:You're in. All in. Let's go.

1:47:52Bill Simmons:They reinvented it. It's different than the movie. I'm okay we're okay with this right hell yes we are I'm in just one Oscar who gets it it's gotta be the score right James Horner yeah the score for one Oscar I thought I was gonna give it to Mary McDonald for doing multiple scenes pretending she's not attracted to to our guy Redford but that's tough lifting but yeah Horner amazing okay probably in answerable questions so as it turns out over the next 33 years the NSA figured out how to spy on us anyway, Joanna. Does that ruin the movie? These guys saved us from the NSA. Oh, no, they didn't. They're probably listening right now.

1:48:32Bill Simmons:They have cameras on us.

1:48:34Joanna Robinson:They're definitely listening right now.

1:48:35Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:48:36Joanna Robinson:That's who you hear breathing on the other new phone line, right?

1:48:39Bill Simmons:So Sneakers won, but they didn't really win because they lost. That's right. We all lost. Because we're all being surveilled at all times.

1:48:45Joanna Robinson:Yeah.

1:48:47Bill Simmons:Probably an answer for questions. Is this officially a San Francisco movie for you?

1:48:51Joanna Robinson:Yeah.

1:48:51Bill Simmons:It's a level one San Francisco movie?

1:48:53Joanna Robinson:Absolutely. top tier for me. Wow.

1:48:55Bill Simmons:Craig just rolled his eyes,

1:48:56Joanna Robinson:but yes. No, no.

1:48:57Bill Simmons:Level two for you, Craig? I'm thinking about how much San Francisco is in the movie that is identifiable as San Francisco. I wish there was a little bit more, but yeah. My favorite movie ever, San Francisco movie. This one. Which is what? 48 Hours. Oh, yeah. The movie I've seen the most times. I was like, I don't remember all the pieces of San Francisco.

1:49:16Joanna Robinson:What's your favorite San Francisco part of 48 Hours?

1:49:19Bill Simmons:Oh, my God. I mean, there's wide shots of when he's driving to the bridge to go see Reggie in jail. There's the Chinatown, multiple Chinatown scenes. And we're using everything. We've got the car chase. We get to go up and down hills. Amazing stuff.

1:49:34Joanna Robinson:Have you ever seen the track of the bullet car chase in San Francisco? Have you ever seen the fact that like someone tracked where it takes place in San Francisco and basically like he's down in Pack Heights and then he's over in Sutro and he's just like -

1:49:49Bill Simmons:He's going downhill for too long?

1:49:50Joanna Robinson:No, he just like leaps over nine different - subsequent places. Well, you know what?

1:49:55Bill Simmons:They're filming Bullet in like the early 70s. They have no idea the internet's coming and we'll be able to just dissect everything.

1:50:00Joanna Robinson:It's really funny. Has Pac Bell Park ever been in a movie? Have they ever gone to a Giants game in a movie? Great Park. I feel like that would be an awesome movie. Did they do it in the fan? The fan? He's on the Giants.

1:50:11Bill Simmons:No, that was still a candlestick. Oh, yeah. I don't even know if they shot it in San Francisco. Boston had a great fuck up for what you just talked about. Blown Away. Oh, yeah. Tommy Lee Jones and Jeff Bridges. the final car chase. They're just going downhill in Beacon Hill.

1:50:26Joanna Robinson:Yeah.

1:50:26Bill Simmons:Which really, it's maybe two and a half blocks max you can go down. They're going downhill for like five minutes. It's like just careening downhill. It's like this never-ending mountain. And then they end up in Boston Common. Anyway, I have an unanswerable that's going to break both of your brains. So unless you guys have anything. Oh my God, I'm braced. I have one like that too, but Bill, let's hear yours. No, you go. You go. I'll go last. Well, mine is simple. It's Mary McDonald says she doesn't want anything from James Earl Jones. It's like, what would you ask for? Like, you can do anything at all, whether either now or 1992.

1:50:56It's literally, it's like a genie. He's saying you can have anything you want. What would you ask for?

1:51:02Joanna Robinson:But don't you like her delivery of, oh, I'm fine. Like, it's a great delivery. It's a great delivery. It's a conscionable response. Hairstylist? What would you ask for, Kyle? What would you ask James Earl Jones for? I, well. In 1992. I would probably be like, hey, it's 92. Can you make sure that Michael Jordan doesn't fucking retire to play baseball? Because I think they can win eight in a row. I think they can beat the Rockets twice in the final. So can you handle that, please? So not a Winnebago.

1:51:29Bill Simmons:No. You know what I would ask for? Not a Winnebago. Here's what I would ask for. Have you heard about these people who get access to movies when they come out? It's like some secret society if you get the actual cut of the movie and you just be like, the PTA movie came out. Come over to my house. I have this direct signal.

1:51:47Joanna Robinson:You're not that guy?

1:51:48Bill Simmons:No, I don't think anyone's that guy. I don't even know anyone who has that. It's this rumored thing that I don't even know if it, does it exist? What do you mean? People are showing screenings of movies before they come out? You pay like this crazy amount of money, but it's also, it almost sounds like joining some sort of club. Is it a money thing or is it a connections thing? I think it's both. It's a status in the industry thing. But I think it's only like you have to be like the head of a film studio. I feel like you could be that guy. No, I think you have to be like the head of a film studio.

1:52:14Bill Simmons:Well, that makes sense. And you get it digitally or you become like a projectionist? No, you get like they, I think they actually bring the movie over. Like the canisters? And they screen it and then they leave. And then you kind of host a private screening for 10 celebrities. I host the thing, I'm like, hey, I have the PTA thing. That sounds like the last level of being a movie executive. It's like, come on over. I got the new PTA. I've got the new Chalamet. You would already have I've got Running Man. Kyle, come out. I got Running Man. I went to a screening like that once. It's awesome. It's unbelievable.

1:52:41Bill Simmons:All right, here's my unanswerable. You guys aren't going to make... I almost want to take a break, but I won't because this is a really big one. No, let's do it. Come on, hit us. Let's go. I don't need a break.

1:52:52Joanna Robinson:You already asked if Sir Ben Kingsley should give his knighthood back, so hit me.

1:52:56Bill Simmons:I did 40 minutes of Googling on this and studied photos. Let's go. And watched a bunch of different movies. Did Robert Redford wear a wig? Okay.

1:53:10Joanna Robinson:Oh, no, but he dyed his hair. All right. You think it's a wig? The young Redford character absolutely has a wig on. That goes without a doubt. Oh, sure. But there are certain parts where it does feel a little heavy on the side. And I'm saying it's not outlandish to ask. I don't think this is a wig.

1:53:27Bill Simmons:He had the most full head of hair of any actor who ever lived. Even to the bitter end, it is a full fucking head of hair at all times.

1:53:37Joanna Robinson:Well, I think the problem is that he kept dying it ginger. And that's why it looked unreal. You look at the 70s, it's like perfect.

1:53:45Bill Simmons:Like I was like, Jeremiah Johnson did last week. Just perfect swoop.

1:53:48Joanna Robinson:Yeah, swoop.

1:53:49Bill Simmons:It never goes back on either side. It's always like full and lush. And then it's blonde in the 60s, and then it becomes redder later. Oh, shit. So, Bill, you're not just saying did he wear a wig and sneakers. You're talking about for like the whole run, did he wear a wig?

1:54:02Joanna Robinson:And you're saying like in his day-to-day life.

1:54:05Bill Simmons:I'm saying like from the 70s on, was that his hair?

1:54:09Joanna Robinson:Like opening day at Sundance, he's got a wig on. That's what you're saying.

1:54:12Bill Simmons:But like a styled wig where we would never know. Yeah, like a real... Because he's Robert Redford.

1:54:17Joanna Robinson:I don't know.

1:54:18Bill Simmons:It's unanswerable to me. I don't know if anyone has theories on this. Are there Robert Redford wig truthers out there? Like, is there anything out there? Oh, okay. I did find some stuff.

1:54:26Joanna Robinson:What do the people have to say?

1:54:27Bill Simmons:There are some questions... I love wigs. This is great. In the 2014 range, there are some questions because he had the dark red... Like, darker cherry red on the top, whatever brownish red. Yeah. But then the gray sideburns here and some people are saying maybe the hair...

1:54:42Joanna Robinson:I think, oh, you think it's a red piece on top of the gray? Like the wig went over the thing, but it didn't do well enough with the white. I think it's a dying issue, but I will take a closer look.

1:54:52Bill Simmons:All I'm saying.

1:54:53Joanna Robinson:You've opened my eyes to a real possibility.

1:54:55Bill Simmons:So it's either unanswerable, either wore a wig the whole time, or best head of hair ever in the history of movies for any of the history. The case for your argument is, name another old person with his hair. You can't. It's one of those things like if, like, you're just like, Uncle Bob's coming over. He's a one of one. Oh, my God. Is he going to wear one of his wigs? Like, why does he think he's full head hair? He's 82. This is crazy.

1:55:20Joanna Robinson:I think the red was the problem. But I'll have to take a closer look. He also preempts a lot of the, like, highly technical hair implants and stuff. Like, McConaughey talks about how he got his stuff done. Like, they weren't doing that in the 70s that you're talking about. 60s even. Turkish hairlines. I'm fascinated.

1:55:35Bill Simmons:This is one of my, this would be like, we always play the game of worst podcast you could have that you'd actually be good at hosting. Mine would be just every episode about whether somebody wore a wig or a toupee. Yes.

1:55:48Joanna Robinson:Bill, don't...

1:55:50Bill Simmons:The Steve Martin episode would be like two and a half hours.

1:55:52Joanna Robinson:Like, don't threaten me with a good time. That would make... I would love that so much. We're in a video podcast age. We could put up... That's great. ...visual, you know, like do a full month on Nicole Kidman.

1:56:05Bill Simmons:Oh. Yeah. and then I'm not good at the I'm not good at

1:56:10Joanna Robinson:lady wigs

1:56:10Bill Simmons:lady wigs sounds like you need

1:56:12Joanna Robinson:a female co-host that's what I hear

1:56:13Bill Simmons:no I can do an only male wig based pod I'm bad with the female wigs I can't spot the tubes and the wigs I can spot and then can we do a spin off pod with me and Liz and it's identifying when an actor got fillers yes because we just spend all day oh wow when did when did Emily Blunt get fillers that's a really good one too

1:56:31Joanna Robinson:oh Emily Blunt it's a lot

1:56:33Bill Simmons:great stuff this is why people come to the rewatchables for the important conversations. Male wig only and you're just outing male celebrities who have wigs. It's not outing. It's a discussion. It is outing. No, because sometimes the answer is that's their hair. Good for you.

1:56:49Joanna Robinson:My favorite Marvel fact is that Steve Rogers has like a little, like, they put a little wig lid on Chris. Just like, blonded him up right in the front and made it nice and full.

1:57:00Bill Simmons:Wig lid? I like wig lid.

1:57:02Joanna Robinson:Yeah, it's like a little piece that you put on top.

1:57:04Bill Simmons:the Denzel episode would be long yeah

1:57:08Joanna Robinson:I actually think this is a great idea we should do it coming up coming up on the Wiggest Loser me and CR talk about Viggo Mortensen Wiglet yeah Wiglet do you do you want CR on this pod

1:57:22Bill Simmons:I'll say I mean CR we've had many conversations over the years

1:57:27Joanna Robinson:there's been

1:57:28Bill Simmons:like there's some good ones where there's some it would be shorter pods like a McConaughey yeah John Cusack's another one where it's like, come on, dude, we have all your films in the 80s, stop.

1:57:39Joanna Robinson:Here's the number one. I loved, this is one of my favorite things to do is when I think someone has gotten a transplant, I go and I'm like, look at where the hairline was for Harry Styles. Andrew Garfield's a huge one, right? Andrew Garfield got the hair done. It changed his entire career. Turned his career right away. He was really receding, got a transplant, and then all of a sudden it's Andrew Garfield time again.

1:57:59Bill Simmons:I grew up in the 70s where like Reynolds was open about it. Yeah. Reynolds was losing it and then would just wear these crazy like most of his movies he has wigs on

1:58:09Joanna Robinson:I don't think it's a problem like I think it's fine I don't think anyone should be embarrassed by it it's like women we're not pro

1:58:14Bill Simmons:we're not con it's just it's just answering a question one way or the other

1:58:17Joanna Robinson:women do things all the time Kyle keeps playing his hair

1:58:20Bill Simmons:now I'm like Kyle's self-conscious touching his hair

1:58:23Joanna Robinson:Kyle has gray hair

1:58:24Bill Simmons:do you want me to take it off right now I'll do it on camera I'll take it right off I'll do it right now and unwigging no I can't do it alright that was fun That segment worked out better than I thought. Oh, it was awesome. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie? Redford's wig, not eligible, if he had one. The car, also not eligible. No, the car's not eligible.

1:58:44Joanna Robinson:Okay. Is it interesting to say these are the Scrabble tiles they used in sneakers?

1:58:52Bill Simmons:I think it is. There's an easy answer. It's a black box. It's a play Scrabble with the set.

1:58:56Joanna Robinson:A black box? Answer machine? No.

1:58:57Bill Simmons:Yeah. What is it? The sick 1992 Red Niners hat?

1:59:00Joanna Robinson:Oh. That's what I think. That hat is awesome. Two of them. You can get both. Great call.

1:59:09Bill Simmons:Coach Finstack Award, best life lesson. Look at a stranger's shoes to determine how important the interaction is about to be. I love that. Really good. Yeah. Just a subtle one in the beginning when those guys show up and Redford says to Phoenix, did you look at their shoes? He's like, yeah, they're nice. Expensive. Yeah. Yeah. Expensive. That's much better. I had written down, give him head whenever he asked. So I like your kind of a...

1:59:33Joanna Robinson:Be a beacon.

1:59:34Bill Simmons:Best double feature choice. We went War Games. War Games. Would you go, Kyle? I'm also going with games. I'm going with Patriot Games. Tom Clancy, Harrison Ford, and Robert Redford in one day. Technology, spying and stuff. I'm way into it. And Redford wins the movie.

1:59:49Joanna Robinson:Redford wins the movie. Okay.

1:59:50Bill Simmons:Can't take your eyes off him. All right. Buckle up, Kyle. Buckle up, Joanna. We're going to producer Craig. I don't want to disappoint you all. I didn't hate this movie by any means, of course. I just think spy movies got really good. And when I was growing up, I had like Ocean's Eleven. You know what I mean? Ocean's Eleven was only nine years after this movie it feels like 25 like when watching this in Ocean's Eleven you're like we really improved over those nine years so I'm not holding anything against it look Bob Cousy was good in the 50s could he play now? no you can't cross genres you can't cross eras I mean you know

2:00:29Joanna Robinson:it's just to me that's a I respect your like this is fine and I've seen the movies that come after it that make it feel whatever no I'm not I'm not I love Craig but you're arguing that don't trigger me but you're arguing that if it happened before it's not interesting I just think that this it's I think it's hard for spy movies in this era it's tough it's like so early on in the tech era and like what you're capable of I understand what you're saying tech wise I do it just improved so quickly like immediately we just like

2:01:00Bill Simmons:so Enemy of the State is the flipping point sure because that movie even though it's ridiculous we're doing the rewatchables but the tech's good in that movie and like feels more like now, even though it's almost 30 years. Yeah. This feels like it's from 1992. From a tag angle, absolutely. I see what you're saying. I think the casting's a little wonky, too. You know, this movie kind of feels like, to me, like the fourth installment in the Sneakers franchise when everyone is a little too old. And you're like, oh, it's Redford hanging on and Aykroyd kind of doesn't look like the Aykroyd I remember.

2:01:30I'm going to start crying. But, you know, it's like, oh, did they need to make the fourth one? It's still good, but it's the fourth one. I like it Craig because I love that everyone's forced to respond to this and be like no no yeah no I am because in Ocean's Eleven and then also like in the Italian job yeah it's great movie all these beautiful people and these amazing cars robbing casinos these are real people here it's Strathairn and Aykroyd it's like they're much more relatable and it's much more touchy-feely that's just how I feel

2:02:00Bill Simmons:and Straighthorn

2:02:01Joanna Robinson:and I and I I just

2:02:03Bill Simmons:I'm like Redford feels a little too good for this movie to me. Beneath him. Yeah. I think that's why it works, though. Yeah. It's like, he's kind of overqualified to be in it. I'm like, River Phoenix has nothing to do. Aykroyd feels weirdly cat. I don't know. It's like having Roger Ebert back. It just feels a little wonky. I think two and a half stars out of four from Raj is perfectly fine. Yeah.

2:02:24Joanna Robinson:It's not a one out of four.

2:02:26Bill Simmons:It's a two and a half. I would have gone three at least.

2:02:28Joanna Robinson:I can agree with you on the tech. Like, it's hard to watch chunky 90s tech in any of these, like, cyber movies. the casting we have to just deeply disagree on. That's okay. I think it's hard. Me coming into this movie now, I feel confident that if you showed this movie to most people in their 20s and 30s, they would probably share my opinion. It doesn't mean it's a bad movie. Craig, didn't it bring the house down for you, the James Earl Jones scene at the end? Oh, yeah. I went fist up when he came out. I love James Earl Jones. There's great parts of this movie. Good, good.

2:02:56Bill Simmons:But, you know. Yes. I think those are all fair points from Craig.

2:03:00Joanna Robinson:That's fine. You would recast this movie?

2:03:02Bill Simmons:No, the Kingsley part is tough.

2:03:05Joanna Robinson:Yeah. You would be Cass Kingsley.

2:03:06Bill Simmons:And I think Redford's too old to be in the movie, but I'm fine with it because it's Robert Redford.

2:03:10Joanna Robinson:I think this movie, the fact that it has such a rock-solid movie. You know, you and Sean and Chris were talking on the Sting episode about, is Redford a great actor? And that's a question you were asking, and that's a great question to ask during Redford Month. But he is just the movie star. Yeah. And to have a movie star, similar to Ocean's Eleven, when you've got like Clooney and Pitt at the center of it, you know like a movie star here and then the rest of the team just like gels around him and he's the leader on the set and he's the leader of the team and Sidney Poitier is also too good for this movie and that's kind of what I like Sir Ben Kingsley is in a way too good for this movie and I kind of like that like he's Sir Ben Kingsley and you're like he's in the last He's too something

2:03:54Bill Simmons:for this movie I don't know if it's good 20 minutes in sneakers

2:03:56Joanna Robinson:but like I like it because it elevates the movie and it makes it something that we have to consider forever It's in Sidney Poitier's filmography, so we have to consider it, you know?

2:04:09Bill Simmons:That's it for the Sneakers Rewatchables, which went over two hours. Yeah, incredible time. It's the same length as the movie. Thanks to Craig. Thanks to Chris for helping out as well. Thanks to Ronick. Eduardo. Oh, and Eduardo. Thank you, Eduardo. Thanks to Joanna.

2:04:22Joanna Robinson:Thank you.

2:04:22Bill Simmons:Great to have you here in the studio. And as always, Kyle Brandt, next month, a more normal month on the Rewatchables, and we're overdue for something goofy. if the people can see our text chains about the kind of stuff we're discussing. It's off the wall and it's coming. Can you guys release your big board? I would love that. Yeah, too hot to handle. Should we release? Is it better or worse to release the big board? Is that good content to like my screen cap? Yeah. The Rewatchables Instagram would love the big board of what Kyle and Bill are cooking up. I mean, how many? My big board is organized by decade too.

2:05:00I got 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2020s, all that stuff. How many months slash years

2:05:07Bill Simmons:have we been circling just one of the guys? Three or four years, probably.

2:05:12Joanna Robinson:A top tier is playing on Comedy Central at three o 'clock in the afternoon movie.

2:05:16Bill Simmons:Yeah, that's one. That's one where if we did that without Van, it might be irreparable for me. It might be like a Joanna Stinkers thing. Thank you. This was great. Thank you. Thank you.

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