‘The Good Son’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

11:15Bill Simmons:Highway that he built his fake, fake dummy that he could throw at a highway.

11:19Sean Fennessey:This movie also really taps into something that I think all three of us have talked about a bunch over the years, which is when we were growing up, your parents were just like, all right, we'll see you in nine hours. what did you do with all of this free time when no one was looking after you which is like not the experience I'm having as a parent I'm pretty aware of where my daughter is at all times but when we were kids you could just build Mr. Highwayman in a shed this might have ended the latchkey parenting generation seriously we need to make sure it's at the tail end we don't have a good son

11:46Bill Simmons:this is right the 90s were when this started to flip around and people started to become a little more sophisticated but yeah he has this shed where he has Mr. Highway he has basically the fucking no country yeah he has the no country for old men gun yeah called it he's like want to see the stuff in my shed he has a treehouse that it's like 50-50 you're gonna fall to your death as you're climbing

12:09Sean Fennessey:a death trap yeah he's like

12:11Bill Simmons:no no

12:11Sean Fennessey:go this way the scary way and they were given free rain to go play on cliff sides in the winter in New England where like they could just get blown off and highway overpasses they're just like hanging out around the highway and on train tracks like the number of places where they go and just like hang out. Every single space where they go is dangerous.

12:30Bill Simmons:Yeah, it's almost like the only thing they're missing is like the subway with the third rail where you get electrocuted. Right.

12:35Sean Fennessey:It's kind of like a Final Destination movie.

12:37Bill Simmons:Yeah.

12:37Sean Fennessey:You know, where they keep putting them, they keep putting the characters in scenarios where like something terrible is about to happen here.

12:42Bill Simmons:Did you know anything about this movie before you watched it? Zero. I assumed Culkin was the good son going into it. Liz and I were like, it has to be Culkin's the good kid, right? They would never, he's a star coming off Home Alone. There's no way he's going to be bad. but it was way better and even the way Elijah Wood has a look to him that I thought could be portrayed as sinister so I was surprised they went the other way but they were both perfect for it he does a good job freaking out you love this movie I can already see it in your eyes ridiculous movie it had oh I had one more thing about the From Hell All-Stars who were constructed in the perfect family sleeping with the enemy guys the dead Patrick Bergen yeah he's been mentioned in every From Hell month.

13:26Bill Simmons:Same director, by the way. Joseph Rubin, who also directed Sleeping with the Enemy. We're going to talk about him. I think the mom can't be a From Hell. I think you need one person in the From Hell movie who's not From Hell. The mom who's constantly overlooking the signs that something bad's happening. Oh, yeah, okay. That's like a Julia Roberts type of actress, whatever. Macaulay Culkin and Alicia Silverstone as the two kids. Sure. I think she's the older sister. De Mornay's the nanny. Of course. Glenn Close is the mistress and then I think Kathy Bates, Vince Vaughn and Sam Jackson all live next door with Tim Robbins and whoever his wife was in Arlington Road they're across the street just doing some FBI terrorist stuff

14:09Sean Fennessey:this is like your all-star team up of all the From Hell baddies they're all there is Arlington Road in From Hell month?

14:15Bill Simmons:no but I do like that movie

14:19Sean Fennessey:it is a good one nothing better than when you guys look at each other talking about a semi-obscure movie that nobody cares about and decide you're going to devote a lot of time to it on this show

14:28Bill Simmons:that movie has Jeff Bridges, Tim Robbins is Madeline Stowe in that? who's the wife? there's a really good actress in it too

14:35Sean Fennessey:it's been a long time since is it Mark Pellington? the director? yeah director of the Jeremy video? yes

14:40Bill Simmons:it's a good movie it's got a nice twist Zoe and I watched it over Christmas break and she loved it but she seems to like all of these movies Road from Hell? Arlington? Well, Road from Hell would also be like U-Turn. Yeah, or The Hitcher. Yeah. Or Duel. Truck from Hell? Truck from Hell. This movie also had one of the great random endings of all time. Random? Yeah. Sure. Where it's like, this is whatever. It's a stupid from hell movie. But the choice of the mom holding the two kids over the cliff.

15:10Sean Fennessey:It's incredible.

15:10Bill Simmons:I think I got 20 years of column jokes out of this about who do you choose? Jalen or Jason? Holding them over the cliff? Jalen's going Dad give me your other hand Where are you at

15:22Sean Fennessey:On that right now

15:22Bill Simmons:I dropped Jalen You did Yeah

15:24Sean Fennessey:After the Twitch stream

15:25Bill Simmons:Do you Yeah Just

15:27Sean Fennessey:On this day Yeah Will Jalen be on the Celtics The start of next season

15:32Bill Simmons:So we're taping this On June 4th

15:34Sean Fennessey:Yeah

15:34Bill Simmons:You think he gets Traeger in the draft I would say 70-30 Not on the Celtics Wow Yeah Okay Yeah By the time people listen to this Maybe he won't be on the Celtics Sheesh But yeah The good sound analogy I would I would have it with you guys I got CR and Sean. We all know I'm getting dropped.

15:51Sean Fennessey:Everybody knows I'm getting dropped. CR's like, Bill! He's lunging to a fiery death. Give me your other hand! Let me fly, Bill. What's crazy about this, though, is... Does that indicate... Who did I drown, then, in that analogy? Yeah, or was Sean trying to throw a rock on you? No, I'd pull both of you up. I'd figure I had something to strength.

16:10Bill Simmons:I'd say both of you guys. They filmed this, though. It's no CGI, because we didn't have CGI back then. No. They have people on, you know, those things. Harnesses. Harnesses, yeah. They're actually dangling. They're all at various points. They're all dangling from harnesses. And at some point, Culkin had to do like a 30-foot drop for the end that he... They rehearsed it for weeks. They rehearsed all of it. And it's why it looks so cool because you're watching. Like, how are they doing this?

16:35Sean Fennessey:Yeah, and he must have landed on one of those big parachute landing spots. When Wendy Crewson's character goes down, and it's clearly a stunt woman, but like, it does not look like she's harnessed anything. No, because she falls on like the outcropping of the trees and rocks. That's so nuts. In general, so Joseph Rubin,

16:52Bill Simmons:he mentions the director, but the way he shoots this, it's really good. I think it's like a really well-done movie. I totally agree with you.

16:59Sean Fennessey:My whole take on the movie is that it's ironically written by one of the great novelists of our lifetimes, and it's very trashy. And clearly, it was rewritten and stripped down, and it's not a good script. But it is made with a level of Hollywood craft that is extremely high for such a junky piece of material. That was, and McEwen, who's, I think, more or less disowned the movie or whatever, even though he got arbitration credit for it, was like, the idea was to do something very low class in a high art way. Right. You know, so it does make sense. The thing that this movie has is just the two kid performances are among the best you can really get from kids.

17:39They're fantastic.

17:40Sean Fennessey:And they're now, I think, widely acknowledged as like two of the great child stars in the history of movies.

17:44Bill Simmons:Yeah. it's funny this whole era and the movies were done they're all like basically it's like going to a diner and having like the best patty melt and the best fries and the best shake that's what these movies are they're all really well done with good actors like we did Single Wife Female and Jennifer Jason Leigh's like great in that movie you know and it's also really well directed then we did Hand That Rocks the Cradle which is Curtis Hansen yep couple years before he does LA Confidential and Des Mornes is incredible in that and this movie like this would just be like a fucking lifetime movie 20 years later.

18:18Bill Simmons:But it's like a$20 million movie that had the hottest star under 21 probably in the last 50 years. And it's really good. And he basically, I was trying to think of any comp, I was hoping you could help me, of somebody who would have been like the America's sweetheart, big, huge movie star for as rare as it is that it's a child like this to be like, for my next act, I'm going to be Hannibal Lecter in a movie. Even though I am currently still like I'm Kevin McAllister and everybody knows him. It was honestly a great zag. Yeah. You have a five-year window when you're a kid star. It's not going to last.

19:00Bill Simmons:It's just not. You're going to grow up. You're going to look awkward. People aren't going to stay with you. I thought they did a good job of reinventing him.

19:08Sean Fennessey:It's such a complicated conversation because obviously his father was playing such a big role in kind of charting the path for his career. And this was really important to his dad to mess with the expectations of McCauley Culkin. Well, he was treating McCauley Culkin like he was... Like Brad Pitt. Glenn Powell or Brad Pitt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where he's like, we gotta mix it up. We gotta show people that you can play dark. And I'm like, he's eight. Right, right. What are you doing? I mean, there are a lot of other examples of young child stars over the years. Like Mickey Rooney was like this. Elizabeth Taylor was like this.

19:37Sean Fennessey:Shirley Temple was like this. They got their starts really early on. And then when they started to get into their teens and their 20s if they stuck around in Hollywood that's when they would start darkening their persona and taking on more challenging stuff and sometimes playing the villains to kind of upset your expectations but like you said he's 10 years old I think when he makes this movie or 11 years old

19:55Bill Simmons:he breaks through an Uncle Buck and he steals every scene and then Home Alone is a phenomenon in 1990 it's one of the biggest movies of the 1990s right and then does the My Girl thing which was a big deal that he died in My Girl. Huge movie for me.

20:11Sean Fennessey:I love My Girl.

20:13Bill Simmons:And then the dad, who we're about to talk about, Kit Culkin, they want to do Home Alone 2. And he's like, that's fine. But I want my son to be in The Good Son. And they're already like ahead of it. They have the director. They have the stars. They're already about to make it. And he basically gets them to stop production. Wait a year for him to finish Home Alone 2. And it was probably the right move, even if he sounds like a psycho. But the next ones after this were Getting Even With Dad with Ted Danson. Two people right after you would have wanted them. Like three years after. And then Richie Rich.

20:45Bill Simmons:And then it was over. He stopped acting when he was 14. Yeah, when does the club movie come out? When does... Party Monsters like 10 years later. Yeah. After those movies. Stops at 14. Gets married at 18 to an actress. Ebert, who hated this movie about as passionately as anything we've covered in 440... A vicious review. Just like could not have been more upset about how much he hated it. He wrote during this movie, what were Culkin's parents thinking when they pushed him into a movie where he drowns his baby sister tries to drown his little sister and wants to push his mother off the cliff if this kid grows up into another one of those pathetic, screwed up, former child stars who are always spilling their guts on the talk shows a lot of adults will share the blame it's kind of half what happened

21:29Sean Fennessey:although he seems like a very well adjusted older adult but would that have happened to Macaulay Culkin even if he didn't make The Good Son? you could just say that being exposed to that level of fame and being involved in the projects that he was involved in before that. To me, the Ebert reading on this is really interesting because he always gets a little bit caught up in the morality. He had a hard time with slasher movies. He has a hard time with like juvenile comedy. And he has a hard time with really mean-spirited movies historically. Yeah. And he comes down really hard on them. He almost always overlooks the craft.

22:00Sean Fennessey:He thinks really about like the feeling, which I love about him. But he's like so hard on this movie because all he's thinking about is little kids who love Macaulay Culkin watching Macaulay Culkin in the movie. Yeah, I mean, I was too... Is that a way to look at the movie? I don't think I was as engaged in it. I'm the opposite.

22:15Bill Simmons:I'm like, this movie's fucking awesome. Well, I think now, it's almost easier to look at as a museum piece than probably in the moment. In the moment, I'm sure it was just like, the kid from Home Alone is a multiple-time murderer and psychopath. He's a sociopath, yeah. But I think it adds an interesting layer of twisted psychology to the whole entire movie if you think about the fact that Macaulay Culkin's father wanted him to play Henry. Yes. Like, that's fucked up. I agree. You know, but it does give the movie itself like a little bit of like, ooh, like this is some seasoning I didn't expect to have this off-screen narrative into it.

22:52Sean Fennessey:To Craig's point, when he sat down to watch it, he never thought in a million years Macaulay would be the villain. Yes.

22:56Bill Simmons:I remember seeing the trailer before a movie. The trailer probably started running maybe three, four years because three, four months before, we didn't have the same kind of knowledge of what was coming back then as much and the trailer was really good and it was like wait is he what's going on here yeah and it was kind of shocking the trailer's really good like they did he's got the flashlight and it's clear that he's going to be the creepy guy so there was awareness that it was him the movie now though i guess if it was like

23:26Sean Fennessey:if it was an ari aster movie it would be it would be as mean-spirited but for the most part if this was a studio drama now, they would give you at least some indication of why Henry is the way that he is. They would psychologize him. They wouldn't just make a movie about a sociopathic eight-year-old or there'd be a demonic possession or something. This movie is just, this kid is evil. That's it. Is that better or worse though? I don't think it's better. I don't think it would have been better. I think it's more enjoyable that it's just like, this is evil incarnate.

23:57Bill Simmons:with not knowing why he is the way he is and just thinking that he's just a bad, terrible kid. My favorite part of the research was apparently the novelization is just like, he's a sociopath. Nothing bad happened to him. Right. This is how he came out like this, broken. I mean, that was basically what the Kevin movie tried to do too. Kevin was just like, I'm, there's just always been something a little off with this kid. Kit Culkin. You know who his sister was? His sister. She's the ice skate girl. She's the daughter. Kit Culkin. His father. Oh, Kit Culkin. Who's his sister? Bonnie Bedelia. Oh, no kidding.

24:32No. Yeah. Bonnie Bedelia's their aunt? Bonnie Bedelia is Macaulay Culkin's aunt.

24:37Sean Fennessey:Wow. Bonnie Bedelia in Presumed Innocent and Henry in this movie. Right. We may be able to get along, I think.

24:43Bill Simmons:He could have been in the house. New York Times wrote a big piece about Kit Culkin in 1993 that I un-Earthed. Did you guys read this? No. It's basically about Kit Culkin. Why is this guy so powerful? and coming off Home Alone 2, which made$373 million. Mr. Culkin was just rated the 48th most powerful person in Hollywood by Premier Magazine, ahead of Michael Douglas and Eddie Murphy.

25:14Bill Simmons:Earlier this month, he signed an$8 million contract with MGM for getting him in with Dad. And then it goes into all the stuff that when he decided, I want my son to be in The Good Son, and everyone in Hollywood is like, It doesn't work this way, man. You can't just bully people around. And he's like, yeah, it does. If my son's a big enough star, and guess what? He's one of the biggest stars in the world. Then it's going to work this way. And you're going to give me this, and I'm going to make this amount of money. And apparently, it was just a nightmare. There was all these details about fights about everything, where the camera is set up for a shot, where his hair is done properly, scenes rewritten.

25:52Bill Simmons:He was just running the show for two, three years. And what happens? As soon as the star starts to fade, Hollywood's like, fuck this guy. And that was it. What's weird is that he's estranged from everybody now. Yes. I don't think Max talked to him in 20 years.

26:05Sean Fennessey:His kids don't talk to him

26:06Bill Simmons:as far as I know. He talked, he did an interview recently. Did he? He was on the Kate and Oliver Hudson Sibling Revelry podcast. Yeah, I don't know. Do we need to add that to the ringer?

26:16Sean Fennessey:Kate and Oliver Hudson

26:17Bill Simmons:have a podcast together? Okay. He said, Macaulay said, him and his seven living siblings and all of their kids are all estranged from Kit Kalkin and intend to keep it that way.

26:28Sean Fennessey:I mean, wasn't there also a lot about the way that the money was managed and who got what? That was also, I feel like, a part of the controversy there. And so I think they all resent that in addition to the way that he acted.

26:37Bill Simmons:Well, they had the Rooney rule where you're protected somewhat, but I still feel like he could probably grab stuff under the table left and right. The Rooney rule, like the Mickey Rooney rule? Yeah. Not like the art Rooney rule. Yeah, because I think he just got completely demolished by his parents. Yeah. All the money he made. That's what's going to happen to Ben Simmons.

26:54Sean Fennessey:Hopefully you guys aren't estranged. Hopefully you and Ben are not estranged at any point.

26:59Bill Simmons:So far, we're doing great. Elijah Wood, who really has a nice IMDB and has been in a lot of stuff. One of the great careers. Yes. The War, The Ice Storm, Deep Impact, The Faculty, but Bill Simmons' favorite. Yeah. Three Lord of the Rings movies, Eternal Sunshine. Beat out Jake Gyllenhaal for Lord of the Rings. Roger Ebert once called him the most talented actor in his age group in Hollywood history. And it's just aged beautifully. Like, it's really like every five, seven, eight years or whatever when he's kind of like moved into a different period of his life has been like in a movie that is like appropriate for that.

27:35Like, it's just been a real pleasure.

27:37Bill Simmons:We talked about him in the Ice Storm podcast. Just a really good actor. He's terrific in that movie too. He's great in this movie. Yeah.

27:43Sean Fennessey:He's kind of always great. It's weird because he, you know, he has, one year later, he's in North, which is like one of the legendary bombs in the movie history. And he just keeps on trucking. You know, like he's like in Ice Storm a couple years later. He's in a movie. He's in the war the year after that. Like he didn't miss a beat. He didn't. It's interesting to kind of map him alongside Macaulay Culkin who seemed like an absolute rocket ship. Like there was nothing that would ever take him down. And like you said, his career basically stops after Richie Rich and Elijah Wood is still going. Yeah.

28:15Sean Fennessey:He's just in Ready or Not 2. Yeah.

28:17Bill Simmons:My guess is Culkin's still probably banking stuff off the movies he made. I'm sure there's royalty stuff and other things.

28:23Sean Fennessey:And he's slowly been coming back, right? He was in a Home Alone commercial. I think he's a good interviewer. I was thinking he would actually be really good on that.

28:30Bill Simmons:He'd be a fun podcast to do.

28:32Sean Fennessey:He's really insightful in the John Candy documentary because he formed that relationship with John Candy on Uncle Buck. And he explains how John Candy basically made him comfortable on camera. And it was cool to see him like reflective in that way because we hadn't seen him much. but now it feels like he's almost like ready to make another movie or something. Also dated Mila Kunis for like four years before Action Cutcher. He's married to Brenda Song now, right? Yes, yeah. And she's kind of now she's in that Kate Edson show. Yeah. Running Point. And she's a ball-knower.

29:03Bill Simmons:She knows a ton about the Rams. Huge Laker fan. Yeah. I think Culkin is incredibly likable now. Yeah. Like every time I've seen him I'm always like hey man that guy figured his shit out. It's always nice when that happens. Drew Barrymore same thing where you're just like way to go. Yeah. Yeah. definitely probably saw some dark moments over the years I'm still rooting for him to do the Home Alone sequel where he's the dad that's like the all time no brainer Netflix movie I just call it in give him the 15 million feels like a lot you wouldn't watch it you watch Happy Go More 2 against my will you watch it though okay is that the goal I guess Home Alone time spent on platform Home Alone why would Disney let Netflix have the Home Alone IP they're gonna share it

29:46Sean Fennessey:There's nothing I like more than teasing Craig about Happy Gilmore 2. No one was more angry about that than he was. Guess what? He watched the whole thing.

29:53Bill Simmons:That's right. He consumed it. I love that. You know what he was on Netflix? 95 minutes of content. Your eyeballs to us, buddy. Wendy Crewson is the mom.

30:03Sean Fennessey:Yeah.

30:03Bill Simmons:She's known from this, from three Santa Claus movies, all of which I've missed. I gotta say, I missed all the Santa Claus movies. Yeah. The Tim Allen Santa Claus? Never saw them. Oh my God. I love those movies. Huge hits, yeah. Is she the mom in the Santa Claus or something? she's annoying she's an Air Force One and most importantly into Jillian on her 37th birthday oh yeah one of the great bad movies of the 1990s

30:25Sean Fennessey:for years was married to one of my favorite actors Michael Murphy

30:28Bill Simmons:oh that guy yeah how about that yeah we'll get into there are other there are other actresses that were for this part yeah I think she's really good for her in this movie but I also think this would have been a great part for an awesome actress she plays If you just put Meryl Streep in this movie, it's like, wow. The person who was originally cast in this role, you're like, this would have been awesome. That would have been awesome. There's a couple from that age group

30:53Sean Fennessey:where you're like, oh, that would have been... She's really rocking a period-appropriate haircut. Yes. That hyper-short cut where it was like a lot of women had that cut at that time, but now that's not something you ever see. I dated a girl who had that haircut in college.

31:06Bill Simmons:It was like a three-year run. The Mary Kay Place kind of thing? Yeah, it was like a three-year run for it, and it just went away. You want to talk about the writer? Ian McEwen?

31:16Sean Fennessey:Yeah. What's your relationship? Love is novels. Atonement and Enduring Love and Amsterdam. This comes relatively early on in his novelist career. It was obviously like brought out to come out to the coast. We'll get together. Have a few laughs. It's right. It's like after Comfort of Strangers. I think it's Child in Time, Comfort and Strangers era. And so they bring him out and they're like, what do you want to do? And he banged this out. I think the bones of it are probably his. but like I think a lot of the I don't know maybe the lack of like psychological and character depth is probably brought on

31:51Bill Simmons:well he despises the movie it's one of those where in the Wikipedia page for this movie you wonder if he went in there and added a couple things yeah I don't know if Ian McEwen's doing a lot of Wikipedia editing but sure or his assistant did or something you read it and it's like very like Ian McEwen had this great idea and they fucked it up for sentences on end But I don't know what the high concept version of this movie is. And frankly, I'm not sure there should have been a high concept. There's a couple of his books that really explore the idea of a moment in your life that changes everything.

32:26Often in youth. Yes. Yeah. And so I can see some faint outlines of McEwen in this. of like this idea of like in a time of one kid's trauma from losing his mother, he goes and spends a weird winter with family and meets this other kid who's like seemingly possessed by the devil, but the mother is possessed by an angel. Like, I don't know. I mean, like there's stuff in there, but that, I think they stripped that down and made it more about Mr. Highway. So it's like the Charles Smith game for Sean. Hey, hey, look,

33:00Sean Fennessey:when we're recording this, we don't know what's going to happen. We really don't. So like, let's just not even, can we just not even?

33:05Bill Simmons:I was saying that was a bad moment.

33:06Sean Fennessey:It was a very bad moment. In fact, I spoke about it to my five-year-old last night. Did you? I did. I did. We were talking about demons. Was she receptive? She was kind of barely understanding what I was talking about, but I was trying to guide her through the experience of Nick's history.

33:18Bill Simmons:Mine was the Red Sox-Yankees playoff game in 78. That was my version of a Ian McEwen novel.

33:26Sean Fennessey:Just the worst. I mean, I was about the age of the boys in this movie when that Charles Smith game happened. Oh, yeah. It set me down a dark path.

33:34Bill Simmons:Joseph Rubin Dreamscape 1984 The Stepfather 1987 A good movie Solid With our guy Terry O 'Quinn From Lost That's right A bunch of things True Believer I like True Believer I've never seen it I don't think I liked it Is that James Spader? Sleeping with the Enemy Yeah An immortal classic The Good Son

33:55Sean Fennessey:Terrible movie

33:56Bill Simmons:Money Train Money Train's not bad Banger Yeah Yeah And then Return to Paradise

34:01Sean Fennessey:that's where the wheels start going off.

34:03Bill Simmons:But he had a nice little run there.

34:04Sean Fennessey:I saw his first movie that he made a couple weeks ago, randomly, before you even asked me to do this, I just popped it in. It's called Joyride. The cast is Robert Carradine, Desi Arnaz Jr., and Melanie Griffith, a very young Melanie Griffith. Young Melanie Griffith. Yeah. About three kids who go up to Canada? Oh, is it to escape the draft? To go on the run? Yeah. That is a very strange, but kind of entertaining movie. And it's like a real, little grindhouse-y, little exploitation movie, but you can see even in that movie the bones of what he's interested in.

34:36Bill Simmons:He's a from hell all-star director. Really good at wide shots of awesome locations that seem seemingly peaceful and serene, but guess what? They're not. Evil resides. He and Hanson were the two masters of it. I like him. I like his style. They made this movie in Maine, most of it. Built all this. I think they, I don't know if they, I think they might have built the house. And then filmed it a whole bunch of other places too where the cliff scene was not in Maine. But the house was Manchester by the sea in Massachusetts. Okay. I was going to talk about this. Which you can drive up to right now.

35:15Bill Simmons:It's on Redfin. You can go find it. You can go look at it.

35:17Sean Fennessey:So I know you've been to Maine. You like to vacation in Maine. I love Maine. You're from New England. I know.

35:24Bill Simmons:I never really crossed the line with Maine. my wife my wife really loved it didn't you guys go to Portland for some reason we did we did Portland we did Manchester a couple of times but the we just never never really got over the hump

35:39Sean Fennessey:I've been there a couple times and I really liked it I only went in the summers I've never been in a cold winter there but you know it's such a beautiful part of the country but it's also a very complicated part of the country and almost all the movies that are made there this is in part because of Stephen King but not just Stephen King are all really kind of sinister.

36:01Bill Simmons:There's something about that part of the coast. It's unforgiving. It's unforgiving. It's kind of like the Oregon coast as well. It's like, you can't really swim here. It's beautiful, but you can't actually experience the beauty. Yeah, sheer rock faces. There's weird bugs that'll come out in July. All of a sudden, the worst crazy head mosquitoes come out for three weeks. Maine in the summer is like heaven on earth and then the one really really nice part of Maine is Kennebukport which the Bushes have kind of claimed they have like that giant compound there but you stay there

36:36Sean Fennessey:when you go

36:37Bill Simmons:we go to Portland

36:38Sean Fennessey:I stay at the Bush compound I gotta say

36:41Bill Simmons:I've known CR for 15 years this is ironically the 15 year anniversary this month of our relationship Grantland and then Launch of the Ringer Portland Maine is the most CR place in America if he said tomorrow I'm out Phoebe and I are moving to Portland, Maine. I'd be like, I totally get it. I would look to, if we could just knock out a few more rewatchables, I could summer in Maine. You know what I mean? Because if we got ahead enough, I could get a summer place. Portland is like your place, man. What about Ben Shapiro?

37:07Sean Fennessey:You would just leave him high and dry like that? Would you log in on Zoom? Me and Ben Shapiro breaking down backrooms. Has he weighed in on backrooms yet? I haven't seen that. You know he does movie takes. Yeah, so I've seen, yeah. He had a lot of thoughts about Wicked. The thing about backrooms is…

37:22Bill Simmons:If we brought him on the rewatchables, what would happen? I think he'd have a great time

37:26Sean Fennessey:you know yeah I think honestly that would probably be a big goal for him is to just come in and be like Shapiro? yeah I bet

37:32Bill Simmons:the other BS?

37:37oh my god unfortunately that would probably outperform the Spielberg podcast

37:45Bill Simmons:this movie was 86 minutes long it's so beautiful hey Ben Shapiro have you ever had a criteria orgasm?

37:53Bill Simmons:it's a better effect I have 86 minutes 20 million dollar budget made 66 million and so it did make money Roger Ebert first time ever I think in 440 movies a half star what I don't ever remember him going 0.5 stars did you happen to see the TV version of this sure did how was it um they were both very angry he's like honestly really really pissed off

38:21Sean Fennessey:yeah

38:21Bill Simmons:and Gene it's like Tipper Gore late 80s level just like infuriated by the concept I agree

38:27Sean Fennessey:I think Ebert is like his point of view is clouded by how upset the movie has made him Siskel's point of view is really sharp where he's like here is what is he basically does picking nits for two minutes and does say some things that make you think the movie is even worse than it actually is where he's just like let's think about the Mr. Highway situation so those kids when they drop the Mr. Highway are in full view Also, there's clearly a news report and a huge investigation into this, and then there's no follow-up in the story. What happened? And it's also like, Mr. Highway, pretty distinctive way of doing that.

38:58Sean Fennessey:Right. Yeah, so it's like, the movie, because of the way that the script has clearly been torn apart, like, it doesn't really hold up to the level of, you know, investigation that we're going to be doing here. That's part of the fun. But that's part of what makes it fun, too. God, I felt the complete opposite when I saw it in the theater.

39:14Bill Simmons:I was like, this is great. You were just like, Henry's throwing a perfect game. it's like watching Greg Maddux it was probably like a 2.30 start 10 minutes of previews and I was out by 4.05 I was like this is great that is pleasant let's do it this way all the time this movie could not have survived being 15 minutes longer like there's there's literally I have some ideas

39:35Sean Fennessey:for later but part of what is so good about it is it never blinks it's just like yeah he's this evil yeah they don't

39:41Bill Simmons:they don't ease into it it's the moment he takes little Mark out for a time out in the town here's what Eber wrote who in the world would want to see this movie watching the good son I asked myself that question hoping that perhaps the next scene would contain the answer although it never did the movie is a creepy unpleasant experience made all the worse because it stars children too young to understand the horrible things we see them doing this is a very evil little boy the movie could have been called Henry Portrait of a Future Serial Killer by the way banger by the way I would sign up for that right now that's just a great Eber line somebody should actually just make Henry the portrait of a future serial killer have you seen that movie probably not I've told that story I saw that one in the BU theater for assault the game it was me and seven other guys by themselves Henry portrait of serial killer

40:39Sean Fennessey:six of them went on to be serial killers and then there's you all of us sizing each other up halfway through the movie

40:44Bill Simmons:like keep an eye on that guy over there I see you have that big jacket on inside It was like the combat zone in the department It was just waving dildos at each other We're going to take a break and come back and do most rewatchable scene This podcast is brought to you by Carvana Selling your car should feel like one less thing on your list Not one more With Carvana, it is Just go to Carvana.com Enter your license plate or VIN and get a real offer down to the penny No back and forth, no surprises just an experience you can trust. Like your offer? Accept it. Schedule a pickup, and we'll come to you with a check in hand.

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41:27Sean Fennessey:Carvana! Pickup fees may apply. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18+.

41:56Bill Simmons:Most rewatchable scene. I'll start with the treehouse scene into the rock-throwing scene into the well. Henry's kind of feeling him out a little bit, holding him in the treehouse because Mark decides to climb up and the hard way, hey, if I let you go, do you think you would fly? At that point, Mark maybe should have been like, huh. Yeah, but there's, it reminded me of being a kid and again, unsupervised play, being up on my friend's roof and being like, do you think you could jump to the other roof? Right. I bet you could.

42:33Sean Fennessey:Yeah. It kind of, it slow walks you for the first half a scene. But then by the time they're smoking a cigarette and firing the arrow. That's at the well. You're like, okay.

42:44Bill Simmons:Well, Henry has a pack of smoke, so he would have won over CR immediately. Already gets the Sean Penn award. Yeah. Philosophize about death a little bit. What do you think happens? Seems like a decent hang. I think the worm turns during the scene when they're being chased by the Rottweiler. Yes. Which is the next rewatchable scene. Nice little wide shot. And then Henry slams the door and then just goes eye to eye with the Rottweiler.

43:12Sean Fennessey:Yeah.

43:12Bill Simmons:It's like, all right. Starts barking at it. All right. This kid might not be playing with a full deck. Next thing I have is Henry kills a dog and they dump it into a well with the little nail gun thing. Yeah. Is that well decorative, you think? Not a functioning water well? Yeah, like I hope not. For the dog blood? Yeah. Top five wells in a movie. Creepy wells. Silent Rage. I mean, The Ring. Good Son. Yeah, The Ring is number one. The Ring's number one. The Ring scared you off. You wouldn't even do The Ring. I don't like The Ring. It makes me uncomfortable. The Ring is amazing.

43:45Sean Fennessey:Both version, the original and the US version.

43:47Bill Simmons:I saw it once and I'm just like, that's one of those I get unsettled. I don't like being unsettled with a horror movie.

43:52Sean Fennessey:I completely disagree.

43:53Bill Simmons:That's my favorite thing. That's what I live for. I get really unsettled. I'll wake up that night. The Ring in theaters, we were like, oh God, this fucking sucks. Yeah, Amber Tamblyn's so good. Hey Mark, where's your sense of humor? Says that at one point. so that well that dog's gonna start smelling about I'm gonna say a weekend

44:12Sean Fennessey:how deep down though I mean you wanna start talking about this like how's Henry going back into the house smelling a Marlboro's good note isn't mom just like and that's a great one cause you could just be like yeah Mark wanted to smoke a cigarette well how old were you when you had your first cigarette first 15 15 that's late but I didn't start smoking until 21 what about you 24 what what yeah wow Wow. I never in a million years would have thought I would have had a cigarette before you guys. I mean, it was always like, if you can get through high school, you'll be fine. And it was like, that's the exact opposite.

44:44It's like when cigarettes really hit you is when you get out of it. Did your parents smoke? They did, but not with me. They stopped when I was born.

44:51Sean Fennessey:You make it sound like you guys all sat in a smoking portland together.

44:57Bill Simmons:I was 23, not 24. Now that I'm thinking about it. 23? I blame Jim Grady. I was thinking about this the other day. My dad used to be like multi-packs a day. and then when I came along and into like my earliest memories are just my dad getting in fights at restaurants about the smoking, non-smoking sections and whether they were too close. And it is kind of crazy that we were just like, there's this invisible line where you can smoke and not smoke. On airplanes. Yeah. I had that, yeah. As if cigarette smoke didn't roll across. AM track was great too. The smoking, non-smoking cars, but you had to walk through the smoking car to go to the cafe.

45:30Bill Simmons:Yeah.

45:30Sean Fennessey:You just get like instant lung cancer right away. You only feel that now in Vegas. It's the only time you feel that again.

45:37Bill Simmons:Henry causes a 10-car accident with Mr. Highway. Yeah. Once you realize you can do anything, you're free. He's not wrong. Yeah, he's cooking there. Henry's throwing some advice around. This scene's awesome. I think this is probably my most rewatchable. This is deranged, demented, fucking crazy behavior. It's a really well-shot accident. Great truck flip. I feel like they almost like had to do the news report later to be like don't worry like he didn't just kill 13 people a miracle but nobody was injured Is this a better movie if like he did kill like two people and they're looking for the people who did this?

46:15Bill Simmons:I think they need to parcel out

46:17Sean Fennessey:his chaos a little bit so if he's the cause of a mass murder event that would probably make it a little tough

46:24Bill Simmons:I think I handled this correctly I agree with you I have Elijah Wood talking to the therapist on the bench about what makes people evil. She says, I don't believe in evil. And he's like, you should. Good Elijah Wood. The skating scene's awesome.

46:41Sean Fennessey:Yeah. Yeah. Connie on the ice. She's underneath there for a minute. Yeah. I'm surprised that that worked out. I don't know if she's

46:49Bill Simmons:going to college. And like the Camden Main EMTs are able to revive her. Do you think she's going to college? Nah, I don't think it's the ship sailed. I think it's a shot of her

46:56Sean Fennessey:under the water.

46:57Bill Simmons:I'm like, this is... She has a special instructor.

47:02Bill Simmons:because she's under there I think she was under there a little too long yeah the brains got scrambled it's fucking cold really cold

47:11Sean Fennessey:hey Mark don't fuck with me that's number one she's my mother now and then hey Mark don't fuck with me this is one thing I will say well I'll say

47:19Bill Simmons:don't sleep on how incredible it was to hear Macaulay Culkin say hey Mark don't fuck with me yeah it was like oh the mom finds the duck in Henry's shed Yeah, among other weird, disturbing things. Henry, you knew I was looking for this. What do you have the duck for, Mom? Yeah. I find it hard to believe she didn't go into the shed a little more often here. Especially after Richard's mysterious death.

47:43Sean Fennessey:Got a lot of questions about this family.

47:44Bill Simmons:He doesn't even hide the crossbow.

47:46Sean Fennessey:That's just out in the shed. Oh, yeah. But that is also one of those things. I would be more disturbed by the fact that it was homemade. You know what I mean? It makes no sense. Well, they should have had it that his dad made it or something. He hunts with it. It's just there. There's a whole thing surrounding this movie, which is that the plot of the movie is that Mark's mother dies. His father has to go on a business trip. Yeah. And so he gets dropped off all the way across the country from Arizona to Maine to stay with his family.

48:15Bill Simmons:Couldn't have been just thrown on a plane for some reason.

48:17Sean Fennessey:No. So he stays with them. Now, this family that he's staying with is recovering, is grieving the death of their very young son. Yeah. Now, naturally, first of all, this is not the right family to send this child to. There's got to be somebody else who can do this.

48:32Bill Simmons:Yeah.

48:32Sean Fennessey:But they're clearly still having a lot of emotional problems to the point where Henry is doing crazy shit right in front of their face, and they're all so fucked up that they can't acknowledge it. It's Friday night, let's go out to dinner. They're performing normal.

48:46Bill Simmons:We've had this planned for weeks.

48:49Sean Fennessey:No babysitter. I've seen people say it's very obvious that this marriage is on the rocks between these two people, but the movie is kind of like lightly coasting over but you can explain a lot of the nitpicking stuff by just being like these people are not locked in on what's going on around them because of what's been going on in the background of their lives.

49:06Bill Simmons:Did you kill Richard? What if I did? Yeah. And then the big ending. Mom, I need your other hand. Gotta throw one more in there which is Mark pulling a shiv on Henry. Oh yeah. Just be like, oh yeah, it's gonna be a gusher. You know? He's like, yeah, it'll sail that way. that he's like basically telling him to do it. Yeah. I like when the dad's like, Mark, what are you doing? I'd be like, you're fucking out of here, man. Here's your suitcase. That same scene. Here's your suitcase.

49:35Sean Fennessey:Hit the bricks. When he's locked in the room and then the camera, they do the like overhead tracking shot following Elijah Wood locked in the office. I'm like, what? This fucking Scorsese movie all of a sudden for five minutes. It's crazy. It's really well directed. Kit Culkin was off the set that day. They're just like, now I can do it.

49:53Bill Simmons:Hitchcock's here. We talked about how great the ending is. Ebert wrote, everything leads up to a cliffhanging climax that somehow manages to be unconvincing, contrived, meretricious, and manipulative all at once. I don't know when I've disliked the ending of a movie more. I think that's a little strong. Yeah. Honestly, fuck you, Raj. Settle down. The second one of these from hell movies that we've done, I can't remember how single white female ends. You have to tell me. just like instantaneously after the like basically like the most important thing happens there's like one beat of a coda and you're out oh single white female's opposite same with hand that rocks the cradle as I'm saying hand that rocks the cradle she's just like goes up to Ernie Hudson 90 seconds later credits yeah single white female goes on for an extra 10-15 minutes unfortunately so what do you have for most rewatchable?

50:43I like Connie on the ice I love like I love the the set piece of it it's so malevolent it's so knowing of like this would be the most and he's also drowning another sibling. So yeah.

50:55Sean Fennessey:I'll just add one more which is Henry showing up at Mark's therapist. Oh yeah. Which is like an incredible gaslighting moment. My favorite scene is probably Mr. Highway.

51:07Bill Simmons:Yeah. Most 1993 thing about this movie CR. Mark playing Game Boy instead of enjoying Monument Valley.

51:16Sean Fennessey:I had if you missed a phone call you couldn't talk to your dad who's in Tokyo for several days. Yeah. Yeah. Like he just, he's just not speaking to his father.

51:25Bill Simmons:I wrote down key landline scenes. Yeah, there's no email, no text. And if you were out of the house when he called, that's it. You didn't get to talk to him. The dad's old Apple computer is pretty great. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He's got the old, the old school big box, like just a giant contraption. But I had a, the car accident, none of the cars having cameras on them capturing these two psychos. Sure. And there not being any highway cameras. Yeah. That's right. Just no, no, nothing knows what. Just imagine what we could have gotten away with in the early nineties. If there were, the cops probably showed up and they were like, someone threw a doll on the highway.

51:58Yeah. I guess we just will never know. Like cold case.

52:05Bill Simmons:The Floyd Gondali butter in my ass and lollipops in my mouth award for something I just enjoy. I have, we haven't talked about it yet. Macaulay Culkin's Nepo sister. I'm sure she's a nice person in real life and probably having a great adult life and maybe a great mom one of the worst kid actress performances of all time just an absolute abomination can only say her lines in like this monotone voice just has a blank face doesn't seem scared I don't know what she's going for do you think that's because she's in a movie with like the Dylan Harper and Steph Castle of child acting? I think that's part of it the other part is Kit Calkin's like and she's gonna be in the movie too as the sister fire whoever else you had

52:51Sean Fennessey:she did not pursue an acting career

52:52Bill Simmons:I think this is her last movie this was her only speaking part ever she was in this in Home Alone right yeah but I don't know if she had a speaking thing in that I really enjoy when somebody has enough power that they can just shoehorn like their sister into like not a small part it's like the fifth biggest part of the movie she has multiple key scenes sure and I don't know Just steps on everybody. What do you have for this?

53:17Sean Fennessey:I love in a movie when everyone knows something is wrong and especially wrong with a kid and they just will not admit it. And, you know, there's a great scene between Ellen Burstyn and, is it Lee J. Cobb and The Exorcist? Or is it George C. Scott? I can't remember who it is. Oh, Lee J. Cobb. Lee J. Cobb. And they're sitting at the dinner table and that's the moment where it's just like, this is fucked up. there's something like evil happening here. You know, and the movie is like finally letting you accept that Pazuzu is real. Yeah. And this movie takes a really long ass time to get to that moment.

53:54Sean Fennessey:So the whole time you're sitting there and you're just like, how does Wendy Crewson not see that her son is a murderous sociopath for 90 minutes and finally gets you to that point. But that's like, that's movie bullshit. It's like great movie bullshit when no one will come out and just be like, there's something wrong with this kid.

54:10Bill Simmons:And that's one of the From Hell staples. When they're just ignoring the signs for scene after scene after scene and then finally admitting it. I'd probably go America's Sweetheart break in bed. So having Kevin McAllister say, don't fuck with me is pretty amazing. One thing on Quinn Culkin in that New York Times piece, the studio executive was talking about how she got shoehorned into it. It was like everything else with the father. It starts out as a request. And then as it turns out, it's a demand. that's a problem with the guy. It's like Ace Bailey. Yeah.

54:48Bill Simmons:Oh, this is fun. The Amanda Dobbins Award for Best Piece of Real Estate along with the Den of Thieves Benny Hanna Award for Scene Stealing Location, the house. It's got to be the house in Rock Harbor. This is great. Can I also throw out David Morse's desert, desert, like... Yeah, where the fuck are we? Yeah, he's like living in... Is that where you two did the Red Rocks concert? Like Tucson? Yeah, it's outside of Sun Devil's. Is he Colorado? He's like, I bought this place because U2's playing. Also, they drive cross-country from clearly Arizona, Colorado, Utah, somewhere. Yeah. In that car that has no top.

55:22Bill Simmons:That old school. It was like a Ford Bronco or something.

55:25Sean Fennessey:Yeah. He puts the plastic covering on the Jeep. Where they get to the East Coast. When they get to Maine in the winter, yeah.

55:30Bill Simmons:Pretty confusing. But great house. Great location. I still have the Sleeping with the Enemy house slightly above it, though.

55:37Sean Fennessey:That one's also on the shore.

55:38Bill Simmons:It's like at the end of Nantucket or Martha's Vineyard, or wherever that was. What stage is the best? What do you got, Sean?

55:46Sean Fennessey:Well, one of the reasons why I think Kit Culkin was so perceptive is Macaulay Culkin does have a kind of eerie quality as a young boy. He had a precociousness and a kind of like living doll quality that you could say seems kind of evil. I think even in Home Alone, you could read Kevin as being especially malevolent. Yes. and he could play very sympathetic and very sweet he's so sweet as Thomas J in My Girl and when he dies it's so devastating because he's so sweet but he could play like you know in the black or white video the Michael Jackson video he's like a rambunctious kid you know rocking out in his bedroom and the movie is like his father obviously identified something about him that made him very well suited to this part so even though it may not have been the best thing for him personally his dad was right like it aged well to put him in this part So is your hottest take going to be Kit Culkin?

56:41Should he have been running Disney?

56:42Sean Fennessey:No, I didn't say that.

56:44Bill Simmons:Why did he get Pixar? I had an incredible evil little kid performance by Culkin, I think his age. So piggybacking on Sean's thing. We talked about the no special effects and the overhead shots and some of the shooting. But my favorite is, this is a plot device for movies like this when there's been, sadly, a child that has died or something and they don't touch the bedroom. And then there's, they'll throw in the early scene where the new character is like, what's in here? And it's all pristine. And then later we find out like it becomes this plot device. It always works. It's a home run 10 out of 10 times.

57:26Bill Simmons:It always like, it's like a scab that's sitting there for the movie. And then, you know, it's going to get picked off. Yeah. It gets picked off in this movie. Age of the Best I had causing a ruckus in a semi-abandoned building with your little friends. Oh, just breaking shit? Yeah, like that whole scene where they're in that empty warehouse or that mechanic's place and just throwing rocks through the windows. That was a big, you know, being six years old and being like, we're not supposed to be here. No repercussions. Yeah. And then I also really liked when Culkin does taps for the dog. This is a great fucked up little character beat.

58:02I like when he misses the cat too

58:04Bill Simmons:and Elijah Wood's excited that he missed the cat and Culkin's like, I gotta tinker with that. That was my Eisenberg. Sight's not right yet. Yeah, the sight's not right yet. That was my Eisenberg. Was like, oh yeah, sight's not right yet. Craig, you love this movie. Can't wait for Craig's take. Willing it into existence. Yeah, I used to fuck guys like you in Prisoner Ward for craziest quote as clearly. Don't fuck with me. Macaulay Culkin saying that. What do you have for Great Jack Gordon, OCR? Henry looking down the rope at Mark? Or did you have like the holding the two kids?

58:35Sean Fennessey:I have a couple. That's a fun moment. I had Henry approaching Connie in the hospital bed, and he's lit like Michael Corleone in Godfather Part II. Oh, yeah. Where it's just like the demon has taken over. There's a ton of stuff in the movie where it's just like, it's incredibly well-made for such a piece of trash. It's so funny.

58:54Bill Simmons:Chess Rockwell, Brock Landers. I didn't really feel like there was a good character in this one. No, not really. It's disappointing. Pretty generic. The Big Kahuna Burger Award for best use of food and drink has the fridge freak out. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, did he poison the food? Who knows? There's another thing I didn't say for age the best. Elijah Wood's character and his performance, it allows for like the 6 % belief that he's also crazy, that he's also grieving his mother dying. Yeah, that's right. And that he's losing it a little bit, you know? Well, that's always one of the great devices with these movies is that it feels like the person that we know is the good guy, the perception is that they might actually be the bad person and when they can play with that, that always works.

59:37Sean Fennessey:That's one of the best things about Memento. Memento is a movie that really messes with that point of view in terms of like, is this person gaslighting or being gaslit? And it kind of gets you right up to the edge of that in this movie, but you still, you've seen Henry do too many evil things to really ever get over the line.

59:55Bill Simmons:Titanic's like that too.

59:56Sean Fennessey:Yeah, sure.

59:56Bill Simmons:Well, as we know, Rose was evil. People think Billy Zane was the bad person in that movie and it's clearly Rose. He's actually a good guy, yeah. what do you have for a flex CR for my flex well I mentioned Sean Penn I brought my own pack for when Culkin smoked at the well but I had the do you feel like that it seemed like he might have blown a dart before that I think so and especially when they're like they give you cancer he's like who cares you're gonna die anyway yeah pretty good the Rick Cicchetti guard meet award for most memorable death by a security guard or other bystander whom the movie treats as inconsequential but probably had a spouse and the kids who love them the motorists they go to great pains to say that nobody died in that car accident but like I'm pretty sure someone walked away with really bad whiplash yeah and their trauma is completely ignored how did that truck driver survive?

1:00:44I don't know yeah

1:00:45Bill Simmons:yeah that guy's definitely gone in the chiropractor for like three years butch's girlfriend award for week link of the film so we mentioned this earlier but all the unsafe things in this extended neighborhood including a terrifying tree house that doesn't have an actual ladder where who is that guy who did the Netflix climb? At one point, at one point, you're going backwards to climb up the top of it. Like, it's fucking crazy. I don't know where the mom was on that. Like, hey, Henry, how do you get up on that treehouse?

1:01:15Sean Fennessey:Did you have a treehouse growing up? No. Did you? No, but we had treehouse-esque things. You know, like... Like what? Roof decks that weren't really connected to roofs really well.

1:01:24Bill Simmons:Yeah, like roof episode for you. Yeah. All timer. There's the terrifying deep well that you could have just fallen to your death at any point. The cliff's edge. There's no cover on the well or anything. The railroad tracks you mentioned. The highway that you could just fall off the bridge. Just this walking bridge that has a random killer pit bull that doesn't have a leash that could just maul anybody. And then all the cliffs. At one point, the kids are just lying on the cliffs, peeking over this 100-foot fall to their death. So they drop little Mark off, who's just lost his mom. And at no point to the like, hey, just so Mark knows, like, you know, we're really out here in the middle of nowhere.

1:02:06Bill Simmons:Like, there's some shit. Like, you could really get in trouble here. Now, just put him out there. It's really a miracle that we're alive.

1:02:13Sean Fennessey:It's not a very strong advertisement for Maine. It is like this entire state is a death trap. It's how it feels.

1:02:21Bill Simmons:There's not like a safe part in the movie. Even like the shed has multiple things. Philadelphia felt like it was like go into the park, but don't go down that path. because there's supposed to be like a creepy guy down there. Yeah. But it would still be like, but feel free to go into the park otherwise.

1:02:36Sean Fennessey:It's very, another like very smart thing about the movie is moving from Arizona to Maine where Arizona is just the kind of like wide open nothingness of the desert. It's like, it's actually not dangerous to be in a place like that. You're always in full view. And in Maine, it's like no matter where you go, you're about to fall down a cliff. Yeah. What'd you have for a week, Link? The adults. I mean, both in terms of their behavior, but also in terms of like, I feel like we were one really cool actor short of that in that deck. You know, could have been a good, I think Houston's good, but it would have been good if we had had the original actor cast for it.

1:03:09Bill Simmons:It feels like that's where they saved money and that was their inefficiency. Kit was like, I'll take some of that. I'll take that Steenburgen money. Yeah, they're like, maybe we can cut money with the parents and we'll just give more to Culkin.

1:03:23Sean Fennessey:Yeah, Daniel Hugh Kelly, the dad, is like, if that was just James Remar, isn't this a better movie?

1:03:29Bill Simmons:He's a TV actor. And I think he was in Cujo, was the other movie I remember.

1:03:34Sean Fennessey:He's a big stage actor. I was reading about him. I don't want to disparage him. It's just like, he's just not really up to the moment. Now, I can't not see James Remar in this movie, though. Well, why wasn't David Morse the dad? Did they just have him for two weeks? I don't know. He's right there. It seemed like they had him for like two days. It's just pre-David Morse being David Morse. But he was on St. Elsewhere.

1:03:51Bill Simmons:Was he? Yeah. Yeah, he had a run. And inside moves that Sierra refused to see. Did this movie need a better title? I'm bringing that category back. I had Susan's Choice. Oh.

1:04:05Sean Fennessey:Like a Sophie's Choice so much. I'm giving away the climax of the movie. I mean, Ebert nails it, right? With Henry Portrait of a Future Serial Killer. I did... Every Mother's Son, there's like something about who is really... who is the true mom to Mark and who's the true mom to Henry in this movie, you know?

1:04:25Bill Simmons:I like that. Good. I can see that in the Netflix thumbnail. Yeah. I have the winner. Bad brother. Very good.

1:04:32Sean Fennessey:Oh, yeah. Very good. Just a better title. Well, the Netflix title, you know what it would be. It would be, whoops, I killed my brother. Just kidding. Now I'm going to kill my new brother. It's me, Henry, the guy who killed my daughter, my sister.

1:04:45Bill Simmons:I don't really understand why it's called the good son. Well, because who's the good son, right?

1:04:50Sean Fennessey:I think it's riffing on Cain and Abel, the biblical allegory.

1:04:55Bill Simmons:Bad Brother does a better job, I think.

1:04:57Sean Fennessey:Shout out to Bad Brother.

1:04:58Bill Simmons:What's age the worst? As you know, one of my passions in life is random soccer scenes being thrown into movies. Yeah. So we have Elijah Wood in the beginning. In classic Hollywood, Elijah Wood's never really played soccer before. A lot of close-ups. We see there's some sort of... He's old enough, he's 10. Like a 10-year-old soccer game is going to be a fairly high level. It's just a lot of kids clustered. Fairly high level. Well, it's going to be more spread out. This is more like five-year-old soccer. Yeah. Why didn't they just cast Ronaldinho, you know? I know. It looks like an AYSO under five, like first time everyone's played, and he somehow gets a goal in traffic, and he's like, yeah!

1:05:39People wonder why America has no chance at the World Cup. Watch The Good Son. It's fucking bullshit. This is what our 10-year-olds are doing. Got to have structure.

1:05:46Bill Simmons:And they all do the same stuff. our character is always going to score the goal. It's always going to be shot way too close up so we don't have to see anybody running or any sort of setup of a goal or anything and they're just trying to get through it. And it's a passion of mine, CR.

1:06:01Sean Fennessey:Did you do any telestration on this sequence? There's nothing to telestrate.

1:06:04Bill Simmons:It's just 22 kids just running around in circles. There's no 10-year-old soccer game that would have that kind of spacing. I'm sorry. Unless it's like a pickup game at recess or something. This is pre-Pep Guardiola and our understanding of positional awareness, but I get what you're saying, Bill. Thanks. The music's pretty bad. It's Elmer Bernstein. This is the second... It's just corny. Big Elmer movie we've done because he did Animal House. It's the same problem with Animal House where it's like, did Elmer Bernstein watch this movie? No. He's like, hey, I created some tracks. Just take them.

1:06:35First of all,

1:06:35Sean Fennessey:just watch your mouth. No, I'm just saying. Second of all, this is just crazy. Third of all, you also just did Ghostbusters which is one of the great movie scores of all time. Not everyone can hit a home run

1:06:45Bill Simmons:every time out. I was talking about Animal House.

1:06:47Sean Fennessey:Guys, he did the score for The Ten Commandments, The Sweet Smell of Success, Hud, To Kill a Mockingbird, The Great Escape, My Left Foot. I'm not saying he's not great. Do you think the music matches the music? You're allowed to mail in every once in a while. I thought it was good. I liked it.

1:07:02Bill Simmons:Are you going to go 52 for 52 in your newsletter? There's probably going to be a couple good sunset checks.

1:07:06Sean Fennessey:I feel like I'm three for seven right now. 52 for 52.

1:07:12Bill Simmons:The credit titles weren't great. The music and the credit titles feel very early 90s to me. It's like baby boom music. You guys are just fucking assholes. What the hell? I think Elmer just gave them he's like it's a good sign with Macaulay Culkin this movie's gonna suck. Here. I'll send you some 8-track. You know what would have been good? Okay so they don't do their credits. They have Mark's mom dies. Funeral. They hit the road. ACDC Thunderstruck. Yeah. Billy Squire's The Stroke. DANDAS ROCK!

1:07:47Bill Simmons:Orgo some 93 hip-hop. All of a sudden, they're playing Dre and Snoop. That would be good. Moving from the West Coast to the East Coast. I like native tongues. I have one more what's age the worst. If you close this deal in Tokyo, you and Mark are set. What's going on here? This definitely just feels like sex tourism to me. I have no idea what's going on. The idea This is almost like the extension of the gung-ho era of people's relationship to Japan in the 80s and 90s being like, I can't break this date. They won't understand that my wife just died.

1:08:23Sean Fennessey:The fear that they were going to take over the economy of America. Yeah, so I imagine he is a small business owner, his own boss, and there's nobody he can voice this off onto. Everyone in Japan is like,

1:08:36Bill Simmons:we hear that your wife just died, but the deal evaporates tomorrow. when they should come out. I just, I don't know. And if you're going to Japan, you should be a little bit more conversant in Nintendo's products. He's like, oh, you're done bombing the universe over there, big guy. It's like, how about this idea? Bring the fucking kid with you. It's his winter break or whatever it was. Bring him to Tokyo. Get him a hotel room. What is the gung-ho era? Just the movie gung-ho where a Japanese car company takes over an American car factory. And it was just like, there was a movie or two made about the relationship between...

1:09:07Bill Simmons:Michael Keaton movie? The two cultures. Good movie. I think probably there's probably some pieces that have not aged great I haven't seen in a while but my guy Michael Keaton said

1:09:16Sean Fennessey:did you fire that up you got it on 4K I did I watched it during the pandemic yeah we did a Michael Keaton Hall of Fame it wasn't my favorite thing that we watched what else do you have for what's aged the worst when Henry does it when Henry says tells Mark that his mom is maggot food I feel like at any age Henry's taking a fucking right you're fighting you're out like Mark's kicking Henry out of that treehouse And Mark's just like, no, she's not. I'm like, that's pretty deep cut. That's a bench-claring bra. We've obviously just addressed David Morse, least involved parent of the 20th century. And the ending, the very ending, where you basically get Mark's weird, like, I wonder if she would make the same choice again.

1:09:56And there's no accountability for Davenport, how do Connie and Wallace react. You know, there's no... I just wanted like one extra minute.

1:10:05Sean Fennessey:Yeah, I put that in Z-Want-Neo, where I'm like, why are we focusing on Mark now? Like, this is now about Wendy Crewson's character who, like, killed her son after losing her other son. And does, like, law enforcement come through and be like, gosh, turns out there was a huge crime wave that this kid Henry was responsible for. We missed it.

1:10:22Bill Simmons:I would have added one extra scene, one more soccer game. Okay. Another goal for Mark cuts to Wendy Crewson with Mr. Highway and they're celebrating. Mr. Highway's like, Goal! She throws Mr. Highway at the field and that's the end of the game. Hans Gruber scale for villain ranking? Henry's like a 9. I had an 8. Yeah. He's pretty mean. In this rating, Hans is 10? Nobody can be higher than Hans. Okay. That's why it's the Hans Gruber scale. I disagree with you. Who's higher than Hans? I just think Hans had his motivations. Like Hans was, you know, first of all, a committed leftist and second of all, was really just interested in getting his hands on Barabans.

1:11:06There's a lot more crazy people out there.

1:11:08Sean Fennessey:Okay. Where does... He wanted the Crimson Dawn out of prison. Like, where does Lucifer figure into this scale? You know, like... It's a good question. I feel like we could get a little bit more evil than Hans.

1:11:21Bill Simmons:This was created during a Kyle Brandt podcast when we were talking about how bad powers Booth was in Sudden Death. Right. And I think we gave him like a one and a half out of ten. And at some point, it became the Hans Gruber scale. I don't know if we'd put a ton of thought into whether it should be after Hans Gruber. Look, I'm willing to open up to the... Maybe I'm a Gruber apologist. I don't know.

1:11:40Sean Fennessey:It's hard to apply this category to a film that has, like, explorations of sociopathy or evil. Like, Payman is a 10 out of 10. Pazuzu is a 10 out of 10. Well, once he is possessed, yeah. The demon. The demon itself. Right? Here comes the telephone pole band!

1:12:02Yeah.

1:12:03Sean Fennessey:A lot of talk about Apex Mountain for this pod, but you...

1:12:06Bill Simmons:Yeah, people obviously didn't see Hereditary. Ruko doing Hereditary is probably the hardest I've ever laughed on this show. Ruffalo Hannah Rubinic Partridge overacting word. This goes to Quinn Culkin for the underacting. Can we do underacting for this or no? Sure. Okay.

1:12:21Sean Fennessey:Elijah dials it up a couple times. Yeah, when he's throwing all the food down their disposal.

1:12:26Bill Simmons:Yeah. Oh, true. That's good. That's a good answer for this. All right, we'll take one more break and then we got Sean's flex. You thought this was your Run Club era.

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1:14:02Sean Fennessey:All right, Sean's flex. What do you got? So the reason I put The Shining on my list is because there's a Shining criteria orgasm in this movie. You just mentioned the bombing the universe line, which is a direct line that pulled from what Jack Torrance says to his son Danny in The Shining. And this movie knows what it's doing when it makes that reference to The Shining. Oh.

1:14:23Bill Simmons:Do we have to retire the category after Spielberg melted your vertebrae? It's up to you. You tell me. No, I like this category.

1:14:31Sean Fennessey:I mean, I don't know if I'll ever have a better moment in my life. Do you think he will watch Jaws 2? He said he saw it 20 years later. Oh, he did? Okay. We went to bat for it a couple times.

1:14:44Bill Simmons:I snuck it under my breath a second time. You did? Yeah. I really wanted to make it clear to him that I was okay with the movie for some reason.

1:14:50Sean Fennessey:My big regret was that I couldn't pitch him on why it was an interesting movie. Because you could see he just didn't want to hear it. but you know the whole thing about it being like a like a slasher movie but with a shark yeah that was a cool thing that happened I wonder if for him he's like that would be like me telling you like why Heifetz's version of the big picture really worked for me right like

1:15:13Bill Simmons:possibly yeah no fucking way yeah possibly oh shit Heifetz is gonna send a pitch now have an idea for a spin off

1:15:21Sean Fennessey:literally every other episode of the Ringer Fantasy Football Show is Craig asking Danny if he's seen a movie and he's like I haven't seen that. That would be the podcast. How many movies did you see? Him just seeing every movie? Heifetz? Yeah. Yeah, it's alarming how little, very popular movies from the 90s and 2000s he has seen. He didn't know who No Doubt was. What? Like, he's such a unique person. He's like, Gwen Stefani was in No Doubt. How did he even get hired in the first place?

1:15:46Bill Simmons:I think the first 20 years of his life, he just was watching football and basketball. Grinding tape. Yeah. Yeah, and that was it. Oh. the CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest take award. I'll start us off. Okay. I think this is Macaulay Culkin's greatest performance and I don't even know if it's a hottest take. I don't even know how hot that is. I genuinely believe it. I think it should be mentioned first. I don't care how popular Kevin McAllister was. I know how big Home Alone was as a franchise. I think this is a much harder role and he's really good as an evil kid. I don't, like this movie, it's one of those, we talk about this sometimes in this show.

1:16:23Bill Simmons:Sometimes movies just shouldn't work. this movie literally needs two of the best kid actors probably the last 50 years to both be in the same movie with the director who totally gets it but I think this movie probably had a 10 % chance of working or else it's like that movie I watched Mikey with Brian Bonsal then it just goes in that direction and it becomes that it becomes pure camp yeah

1:16:45Sean Fennessey:my hottest take is related to what you're saying because I feel similarly and that it's that this movie should have been an even bigger deal because Elijah Wood and Macaulay Culkin should have both been coming off of Academy Awards for supporting actor. Culkin for his performance as Thomas J in My Girl and Elijah Wood for his performance in... Oh, shoot. I forgot what the movie was that Elijah was in right before this. The War? No, no, no, no. Radio Flyer. Oh, yeah, yeah. And Macaulay should have beaten Jack Palance for City Slickers and Elijah should have beaten Gene Hackman in Unforgiven. That's not actually your take.

1:17:22That's like... It's the hottest take. It's my hottest take.

1:17:25Sean Fennessey:It's my hottest take. Could McCauley imagine Elijah Wood accepting an Oscar and just be like, it's just great to be nominated with these other performers. Hackman, I've looked up to you for all eight years of my life. If you've seen Radio Flyer, you know what a success that is. Another Richard Donner film maybe you haven't seen. That would have been the worst moment

1:17:45Bill Simmons:of Gene Hackman's life until the TikTok craze of Gene Hackman's secret tunnel started. Somehow, don't think that's bothering Gene Hackman anymore. but yeah it's somewhere in the afterlife he's bothered he's like really? 95 years a million great movies this is my legacy this is my legacy these fucking weirdo TikTok people do you have any secret tunnels? do you know how hard it would be to just make a secret tunnel? yeah didn't you see euphoria? zoning here is impossible yeah

1:18:10Sean Fennessey:that's right that's right but that is what a guy with a secret tunnel would say yeah you know how hard it would be to do this? how crazy would I have to be to have a series of tunnels? Did you have a hottest take? I have two. One is at the end of the day, I feel like Susan chooses blood over truth. And she saves Henry over Mark. And she's just like, it is what it is. That's my son. I'm not losing another one. And we're just going to have to figure this out. And honestly, the getaway plan is right there. You could probably blame a lot of it on Mark. Distraught, disturbed. He did Mr. Highway. He's the one who threatened Corrine.

1:18:50you know like you could get away with a lot of like that was the single way female plot

1:18:54Bill Simmons:where she was trying to basically set up Bridget Fonda for all of it

1:18:57Sean Fennessey:I think it's not even a hot take I think it's actually the right take so you would save it's not defensible to save Mark yeah it's just as a parent it's just not

1:19:05Bill Simmons:I mean Henry did try to kill her

1:19:07Sean Fennessey:three minutes earlier he did but at least like institutionalize the kid yeah she could be like he was having like he was disturbed because it's really only one moment in her eyes that he broke she hasn't seen any of the other stuff so it's a quick decision I feel like he killed Richard. Yeah. He kinds of admits it. But she makes a very quick conclusion like 30 seconds after he does this one thing to let him die. As a parent, you watch your kids do things and you're just like, I wish they didn't do that just now. But you're like, eh, you know, willing to forgive it. They're my child. Well, you think about it.

1:19:35Bill Simmons:Steals the duck. Says, so what if I did when she asks if he killed Richard and then tries to push her off a cliff and does. And she almost falls to her death.

1:19:44Sean Fennessey:I feel like the better pitch, the better question here is not whether you would save me or Chris, but whether you would save Ben after revealing that he's killed someone or Chris. If you're holding Ben Simmons and you're holding CR. Murderer Ben Simmons or me.

1:19:59Bill Simmons:I'd probably at that point remember, I thought Chris got a little chirpy after the Eagles-Path Super Bowl. I'd probably let him go. Just got a split-second of chirpiness. Some subtle-down juices. I throw you into the ocean. Just a little subtle-down juice. You're the most subtle-down juice in the world. My friend. No more Eagles Super Bowls for you. my other hottest take was that if Henry's parents were just a little bit more engaged they would have seen that this is an NHL pest and enforcer in the making and you could have channeled all that aggression good skater youth hockey yeah that guy's on the B's by 95 yeah great take yeah he's on the third line I was like Wallace if he had an ounce of an eye as a scout he would have seen that this kid's accurate that guy's skate speed was incredible he was a great skater it seemed like it was Culkin too.

1:20:48And he has slingshots that. Poor kid's fucking cooped up. Harness it. He's got cabin fever. He's got nothing to do all day.

1:20:55Bill Simmons:Didn't love the throwing motion from him. No, but he looks like McDavid out there. Let's fucking tap into it. I agree. Casting what ifs. This kid plays in sports. He's doing it every day. Casting what ifs. They almost made this in 1988 with Michael Klisek as Henry. I don't know how that is. And then Jesse Bradford, right? with Mary Steenburgen as the mom and Michael Lehman who directed Heather's as the director do you think a Michael Lehman directed version of this has like more tongue in cheek black comedy

1:21:29Sean Fennessey:for sure just based on all the movies that he's made in his career but would that have made sense for this I mean I don't know if tonally it would have worked obviously Kit was like Kit Calkin dumped his ass yeah Kit Calkin's like you're out

1:21:41Bill Simmons:my son's the hottest star in the world for nine more months you're out he did the LeVar Ball of Hollywood Dad. Yeah, no question. Best that guy word. I don't think Daniel Hu Kelly is a that guy. Why not? Except for Craig's generation. Well, who is he then? Well, I think the therapist is the that guy. Okay. Because I know I've seen that lady. I have no idea what her name is. for a while. I think she's done a lot of stages. She's bounced around. Wendy Crewson is not a that guy? Wendy Crewson is probably the mom from The Good Son. So that would make her a that guy which I think would qualify her.

1:22:12Bill Simmons:This category is becoming needless in a complicated way. Or Mom from Santa Claus.

1:22:15Sean Fennessey:But nobody knows. Most people don't know what her name is. Yeah, that's probably the best answer. Didn't this used to be the Joey Pants That Guy Award?

1:22:24Bill Simmons:Yeah. I feel like we're getting away from the original text. Oh. And you can't be...

1:22:29Sean Fennessey:Some notes from CR. Well, you can't... Sounds like someone's getting dropped off the cliff. No, I'm just saying, you can't be that guy in the movie that you're in. You can't be in... Wendy Crewson is obviously from The Good Son. Yeah. It's Daniel Hugh Kelly. It was from Hardcastle and McCormick. Is that true? Yeah.

1:22:47Bill Simmons:This is big TV. There's like 67 episodes. But he wasn't in 10 Speed and Thunderfoot? What was that one? Remember that one? 10 Speed and Browd Shoe? All the TV shows, when you look up these people's credits, they're just like, did Tarantino make this up? Or is this real? There was some show that was, they did the Instagram video of the opening credits from 1977 called Blansky's Beauties. It was a Happy Day spin-off. And it was set in Vegas. and none of us, I was on with people my age, like Jimmy and our friend Rob Mills, and we were all like, does anyone remember the show? It was 13 episodes of it.

1:23:24Bill Simmons:Really? I was like, how did I not know about the show? It was Strippers in Vegas. Oh, wow. Like a comedy. Wow. Scott Baio was in it. Pat Burrito was in it. But yeah, the point is, shows just came and went. We never knew what was going on. Yeah.

1:23:37Sean Fennessey:It's so easy to make them up too, right? It's just like... Two names. Jiminy McCorkle, PhD. Right. He's a rapscallion professor at a New England university. See, this would be a good use of AI.

1:23:47Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:23:47Sean Fennessey:Well, no.

1:23:49Bill Simmons:No, fake trailers from the 70s and 80s. You have to decide whether they are a real show or not. I'll get cracking on Jiminy McCorkle. AI is just making too many cooks. That's what it is. That's what too many cooks do. Super Train was this big NBC show in the late 70s. Fred Silverman went to NBC from ABC. Big executive. This was his big expensive show, Super Train. and it was basically love boat on a train and they would just show these wide shots of this train going fast and then it would be like starring Vic Tabak and it was an all-time legendary TV bomb. I don't know any of the names

1:24:24Sean Fennessey:that you just mentioned.

1:24:25Bill Simmons:Then they remade it 30 years later as Snowpiercer. Right. Then they decided this is much better as a futuristic horror show. Deanne Waiters was tough. The Pitbull? I got Morse.

1:24:36Sean Fennessey:I chose cinematographer John Lindley. Oh, wow. I like it huge moment for him went on to shoot movies for like Nora Ephron not really the showiest cinematographer in movie history but five or six times watching this 82 minute movie I was like damn John Mooney also he's kind of responsible for that early 90s look I guess yeah

1:24:59Bill Simmons:recasting Couch Director of City we mentioned Mary Steenburgen let's go for the big guns here this is a Michelle Pfeiffer movie like this would have been the fucking perfect Michelle Pfeiffer movie young grieving widow This is two years before Dangerous Minds. It's like four years after Fabulous Baker Boys. Realistic that she would have a 10-year-old son. I think she would have classic Michelle Pfeiffer faces of being upset. Like just like looking on the cliff. Kind of like a proto-what-lies-beneath vibe to it. And even what's the thing she's in now? With Kurt Russell. Where she's just like having a glass of wine and looking out sadly.

1:25:37Bill Simmons:Like she's… Nobody's better.

1:25:39Sean Fennessey:Yeah. A little bit of a like, what is this smoke show doing in Rock Harbor, Maine? You'd have to upgrade. No makeup for her. You'd have to upgrade Wallace too. If that's the case, then you need to get Sam Shepard as Wallace. This sounds like a great movie. We get Hanks. Yeah, we'll upgrade Morse from Hanks. Hanks and Pfeiffer.

1:25:58Bill Simmons:Let's go.

1:25:59Sean Fennessey:Yeah, sure. Why not? We should just do Cruise at 25 as Mark. Can you imagine Kit Culkin on the set with Morse? with Sam Shepard, Michelle Pfeiffer, and Don Hanks. It's like, go back to your fucking trailer, okay? We're lighting my sun. Have a snack. What do you have for flex? We might need a Kid Colt could award. I don't know if that's right. I was all bummed because I thought my, Henry should have played hockey. I had that. I'm going to go with the OK Motherfucker Award for the exact moment when this movie went up a notch. When Connie is drowning and Henry is just kind of limply holding his hand out.

1:26:37and for a second you're like oh okay he wanted her to get in the water but he's going to save her and the hand is just out of reach it was kind of a special it's amazing because it's like if you were a witness to that you'd be like he tried to save her it's a special kind of dimension Liz got up and went to the bathroom

1:26:52Sean Fennessey:she's like I can't bless this this is wicked only thing that would have been worse is if they let Connie die in the movie that would have been that would have been truly like the restrictor plate is off I was like there's no way they're killing anyone else. The daughter's definitely not going to die. And then when she sinks down and goes under the ice, I was like, holy fuck, are they going to kill Connie? Yeah. That would have been deeply malevolent. Could argue it would have been a better movie. Could argue it. Is this month actually sick fuck Bill Simmons? I have to say it. Sick fuck month.

1:27:24Bill Simmons:It's like they go 90 % there, but not all the way. Half-East-Earned Research, the cigarettes they smoked was a tube filled with dried parsley and lettuce sleeves. I don't really get that. I think that's bullshit. I think they were ripping darts. Yeah, it's the early 90s. It's Marlboro country. They filmed the cliff scene at Palisade Head, Minnesota and used tugboats to make the water seem choppy there in Maine. They were dangled off the cliff, secured by a safety crane and cable. They also constructed a fake cliff to make it easier to shoot the hanging stuff, stunt coordinator, the whole thing.

1:28:04Bill Simmons:After discussions with Culkin and his parents, he agreed to do a 30-foot fall on a cable on the actual cliff, but wanted one thing in return for this act of bravery, a BB gun. This is actually in the research. That's very Henry. She heads of Henry, yeah. Also, he got like$5 million for this movie.

1:28:22Sean Fennessey:Get your own fucking BB gun. Just give him the BB gun anyway. Sounds like Jesus Christ. He got$5 million, but yeah.

1:28:27Bill Simmons:They filmed some stuff in Beverly, Massachusetts, Manchester by the Sea, blah, blah, blah. And then you mentioned there's a tie-in novel. I never know what the tie-in novels. The novelization. Yeah. Yeah. I never know what to make of those. Some of them are good. They make Henry a sociopath. Where it's just like they dive into like he just can't feel anything basically. Macaulay Culkin and Elijah Wood, very close friends to this day. Cool. That's great. Yeah. I would get pretty freaked out if I saw the two of them together. And then you mentioned the UK thing. when it finally was released in the UK in 1995 as a video release two years later.

1:29:08Bill Simmons:They edited out everything that happens with Mr. Highway. He's basically on the bridge and then she's, you don't see anything. I think that the UK had moved on to Oasis by then. They're like, well, this doesn't really matter.

1:29:18Sean Fennessey:The idea of being okay to murder a dog but not okay to drop a, you know, a scarecrow on the street. I think they were fearing of the copycat thing.

1:29:25Bill Simmons:That happened, remember that movie, The Program? Which we've done in the rewatchables. Kids laying down in the street. Laying down the street became like I had to edit that out of the TV. Apex Mountain. Culkin it's probably Home Alone 2. It could be Home Alone. This period though, right? This period. He's on Apex Mountain for a couple years.

1:29:47Sean Fennessey:I wrote his it's his Apex for bankability that he could get this movie to$60 million just by seeming evil in the trailer that you described.

1:29:55Bill Simmons:Yeah. Do you think Spielberg understood what Apex Mountain was? I don't think I do. Okay. I felt like he was, seemed like he understood. I think he was. It seemed like he grasped it. I think, I think he was in a great mood. Yeah. Sierra, when we do Jaws with him next year, because he claims they're doing it, I'm going to get rid of these chairs so we can do four chairs in here.

1:30:17Sean Fennessey:Okay. So it'll be me, Bill, Rob Mahoney, and Steven.

1:30:20Bill Simmons:We're never.

1:30:24Steven, Kit Culkin,

1:30:25Bill Simmons:Bill, and Sean. the Jaws thing that'll be it that might be my retirement podcast that'll be great I'll be done after that you guys don't want to do Lincoln as the last one I mean there's any number of movies

1:30:39Sean Fennessey:I'd like to ask him about that he's made

1:30:41Bill Simmons:the thing is he's made so many I mean somebody sent me an email if you took out the top four movies a director or actor made you just you made the list you wiped out the top four would Spielberg still have one of the best careers ever?

1:31:00Sean Fennessey:Yes. No question. So how many people could you say that about? There's like four. If you think about how many times on this pod have you said, this person, it's like this, this, this, and this, and then the wheels come off. And it's like, it's not even the wheels coming off. It might just be like their hot streak ended.

1:31:16Bill Simmons:I think Meryl Streep might be the only actress where you could remove her top four and she would still have one of the best three or four careers ever.

1:31:25Sean Fennessey:Yeah, it works a little bit better with directors. Like, it's a real confrontation with how many peaks you have. Because Spielberg has three distinct peaks. Like, Scorsese has three distinct peaks. John Ford has three distinct peaks where they're like, in different decades, are doing different things that are amazing. Actors is tough because, like, most of them, you get these, like, two or three iconic roles. One that's, like, the breakthrough. One where the whole industry is, like, you're the greatest of all time. And then one late period thing. So, it's a little harder for actors.

1:31:53Bill Simmons:Cruise you could wipe out four. Yeah. I mean, like, I was just... I think Denzel you could wipe out four. I was thinking about Damon because of Odyssey. And Odyssey is, like, the third time he has been the biggest movie star in the world or whatever. You know, or led the biggest movie. And if you cut out Matt Damon's, like, top five movies, I think it would still be a good career, but it wouldn't be... Yeah. Wouldn't be... I don't... I saw an interview with him where he said he hadn't lost this much weight since high school or hadn't been at this weight since high school. Courage Under Fire. He was like 130 pounds.

1:32:24Bill Simmons:Yeah. I got interviews with our friend Zach Barron. He just... Like he was like his health was in danger when he did that movie. Maybe he forgot. Maybe he forgot. Random tangent. Elijah Wood, no. No, that's Lord of the Rings. Agree. Lord of the Rings is the one with the rings, right? Yep. Okay. Evil kid movies? Maybe... What?

1:32:49Sean Fennessey:Maybe give it a... You piping up over there? Maybe give it a spin. Lord of the Rings yeah I just did an episode about Masters of the Universe and I was talking about my favorite fantasy movies of all time and Fellowship is like far and away my favorite fantasy movie of all time I just feel like I think if you like Thrones the way you do there's no reason why you wouldn't be able to at least get I know it's a quarter of yours to be like I'm not into this shit but I feel like you would like it Is that on 4K Blu-ray? It sure is Oh fuck yeah Yeah Good one Those three movies are incredible honestly This is not me dorking out like I it's they're legitimately great movies You like them?

1:33:19I just watched them for the first time over Christmas and they were great.

1:33:22Bill Simmons:What did Heifetz think? Has Heifetz seen Fellowship of the Ring?

1:33:25Sean Fennessey:He could tell you every line from Lord of the Rings.

1:33:28Bill Simmons:Really? Yeah. Heifetz. Wendy Cruz and Apex Mountain probably Santa Claus. I'm guessing. Okay. Yeah. Sounds right. That was a huge movie. It's definitely not

1:33:41Sean Fennessey:David Morse, right? No.

1:33:43Bill Simmons:Daniel Hugh Kelly probably Cujo.

1:33:45Sean Fennessey:What is David Morse's Apex Mountain? Oh, come on. Proof of life.

1:33:51Bill Simmons:CR knows Disturbia one of my childhood favorites oh that's a good movie that's how I know him yeah Disturbia's good Maine no choosing between two people to live what is the apex mountain for Maine just out of curiosity

1:34:09Bill Simmons:probably it yeah I was thinking something in the Stephen King vortex

1:34:14Sean Fennessey:or Carrie

1:34:16Bill Simmons:Carrie right

1:34:18Sean Fennessey:One of those. I mean, Shawshank. Oh, there you go. It's got to be Shawshank. Because Shawshank's Maine, right?

1:34:24Bill Simmons:Yeah, the prison is. I thought it was filmed in Ohio, though. Yeah, but it's… In the movie, it's Maine. Shawshank is a movie location in Maine. Yeah, that's the answer. Or the Portland Celtics winning the G League title last year. Nice one. Be one or the other. Yeah, I didn't know that.

1:34:37Sean Fennessey:In the bedroom? Is that Todd Field, right? Yeah. What about Poison Ivy? It's in Maine? Yeah. I did a lot of Maine research for this. Does Stand By Me, is it Oregon or Maine? I can't remember because it's set in Maine but they shot it in Oregon. What about Lake Placid? Upstate New York. No, Maine. Lake Placid is in Maine? The movie Lake Placid is set in Maine. Oh, the crocodile movie. Oh, I thought you were like Miracle on Ice.

1:35:01Bill Simmons:I'm on Lake Placid. Is In the Bedroom a rewatchable? To me it is. Deeply sad movie. That movie's fucking awesome. Yeah, it's a great movie. Wait, which is the one with Jackie Earl Haley as the kid toucher? Little children. Little children, okay. Cruise or Hanks? Cruz or Hanks I mean the roles are pretty slim this is a Hanks movie as the dad I think it is unless Cruz wants to play young and be Henry so like Taps era Cruz I literally have young Cruz as Henry five years earlier Cruz hasn't even decided to start acting yet but just realizes wouldn't it have to be like 15 years earlier to really get right no he's playing young he's 22

1:35:46Sean Fennessey:it's Cruz and the Outsiders he's committed to it for an endless love

1:35:50Bill Simmons:I've been studying 10 year olds and how their bodies move I've been learning how to unthrow stuff so my throw emotions I watched a video interview with him talking about how like at one point in his career he was shooting cocktail and prepping both Rain Man and Born on the 4th of July and was rewriting all of them and I was like whoever wrote those movies is probably like what the fuck

1:36:13Sean Fennessey:do you guys feel ready for six straight months of Cruise Mania with Digger. Are you kidding? When am I not ready for that? But this is going to be a whole new level. Do you think he's going out on the road with it? I think he has to because he's going to be trying to win an Oscar. There's like a 2 % chance he does the rewatchables.

1:36:31Bill Simmons:2 %? After Spielberg, I'm ready. I got the seat for him. So that would be Cruise, Mahoney, Heifetz, Rick Lindsay.

1:36:39Sean Fennessey:That's one of the left, that four seats. I don't know if I could I don't know if I could hold it together for that one that would that would be a lot you think Cruz would like Zalo? tall men from the couch to another couch and here we are

1:37:00Bill Simmons:the superhero the artist what movie would you want to do with Cruz?

1:37:07Sean Fennessey:Pride Proof of Life Glad to get to be on that one. Would it be one of his movies or something else? I don't think it can be one of his. It's so obvious. It's the re-cruising.

1:37:24Sean Fennessey:See the re-cruising with Cruise? Yeah. I'm trying to think of what's a movie that he talks about all the time that he loves. Like he's talked about The Great Escape a bit in the past. How much he loves that. What's a movie that is essential to him? I mean he's talked a bunch about these Inaritu movies that he loves so much He keeps talking about Amoris Peros now I don't think we'd be doing that on the rewatchables anytime soon

1:37:45Bill Simmons:I'd love to It says that his favorite movie is Singing in the Rain That would be incredible Wow

1:37:56Bill Simmons:There's an article You won't trick Tom Cruise into naming his four favorite films Oh right No because he was talking You know what he loves He's a cinema diplomat Him and Macquarie love the good, the bad, and the ugly and the Once Upon a Time in the West. The Leon Western. Those would be sick. Yeah. Apparently, he won't do that. Who does that letterbox? They give us a top four. He's like… Tom Cruise is like, I can. I love all movies. It depends on what I'm doing. Am I just watching one scene to be inspired or am I hanging out on a Sunday afternoon? Yeah.

1:38:24Sean Fennessey:I don't know. He sees a lot of movies. He still is like… That's his whole thing. He's like, I'm at the cinema. Here to see the Odyssey. You know, a lot of selfies of holding… Like happily eating popcorn. He loves popcorn.

1:38:35Bill Simmons:Cruise. I don't know if we can do Cruise. I feel like it's just, if you have Cruise... Spielberg's ultimately a movie fan like us. Cruise is like, I don't know how you would have a two-hour conversation with Cruise.

1:38:46Sean Fennessey:It would be fucking incredible. But what you want to do is just ask him questions for two hours. You don't want to be like, what's your favorite scene from this movie? Yeah, can you imagine? It's like, we're doing Lethal Weapon 2 with Cruise. It's like, they killed a South African. He's like, Chris, Chris, do it, do it. Deep romantic immunity.

1:39:04Bill Simmons:I'm gonna add in here The Dennis Peck relationship test For could Dennis have broken up the main relationship I think Dennis could easily Have gotten in He's in there in two seconds I love short haircuts Made your wife come You're grieving You need to let some of that grief out Oh my god The Ed Norton reverse dunk award for did this movie need a random sports scene. I mean, it has one. It has the soccer, but did it need a scene with Henry in it? We talked about hockey. Is there a touch football scene where he starts to get a little... Oh, maybe he's like a middle linebacker and he drops a kid.

1:39:45Bill Simmons:Yeah, like he takes Connie over the middle, just like Dexter. It's like, who invited fucking Ronnie Lott? Henry ruined another touch football game. All right, here we go. Pick and nets. God, I have so many. Sean, you want to start us off? What the hell is David Morse's character doing in this movie?

1:40:00Sean Fennessey:in what universe after your wife dies and a boy has lost his mother are you dropping him off somewhere and not spending time with him? And going to Japan for two weeks. What in the fuck? If this, Eileen and I watched this movie together last night and I was like, honey, if you die, I'm not dropping Alice off with someone. There's just no, I'd be like, Bill, I gotta take a couple weeks off from the pods, man. I think you'll understand. Like, this is crazy that this is the premise of the movie. I had that same conversation with my wife.

1:40:23Bill Simmons:We were just like, how is this? I think the fucked up thing is like, there's a bit of it where it's just like, is he kind of like, I need to like get some me time, you know? Could be. Yeah. Could be. But it's not explained in the movie. What do you have for biggest impact? So when Mark breaks away where he jumps out the window at the end to get to the cliffside, Davenport and Wallace are just like, oh, Mark, you got away from us. Then they just stop. They don't pursue. They don't like... I had that as well. Why doesn't the dad show up at any point over the next five minutes? Where is he? And then she comes back from the cliff and is just like, Like, yeah, I had to choose between Mark and Henry and I dropped our son.

1:41:02So now you're down two. That's crazy.

1:41:06Sean Fennessey:How did Wendy Crewson explain to the cops how Henry died? Right. What did she say? Isn't that like criminal negligence anyway? Did she say like my son tried to kill me,

1:41:15Bill Simmons:so I killed him? Like, how did she explain it? No, I think her and Mark get their stories straight for a split second. He slipped out of my hand. I was trying to save him. Yeah, that's true. Henry and Mark were fighting. I found him. They fell off. I was trying to hold them. Obviously, I wouldn't have wanted to kill my son, Henry. The first and last shots of the movie are Mark standing on a sand dune in the middle of a national park somewhere in Arizona with no one else around him. Makes no sense. What's he doing? It's like the start of Dune 3.

1:41:44Sean Fennessey:He's calling the sandworms. He's doing the dance. What about the investigation into Richard's death, the little boy? What happened there? He drowned in six inches of water. I have a I just think that there would just be we're having a fucking emergency meeting Richard's dead the daughter got thrown under a sheet of ice we've got new kid here who's just causing all we need to just shut it down we're not going to dinner we're not just using this old lady psychiatrist I need a bodyguard in here everybody is grounded we're going to figure this out Mr.

1:42:25Bill Simmons:Highway is definitely some sort of investigation yeah it's like first of all very close to their house there's not like a ton of people that live around there the news report will say the driver reports seeing two kids pushing something off a thing

1:42:39Sean Fennessey:that's right

1:42:40Bill Simmons:so that's coming up so these two guys are brothers but their families have never hung out like their cousins have never met 10 year olds like that not one family vacation nothing David Morse is always off to Japan

1:42:52Sean Fennessey:does he know anybody who lives in Arizona who he could drop his son off with? Like, what is going on? It's also the winter. Wasn't he in school? They don't address that. Yeah. No, they said it's Christmas break. Oh, that's right. So the movie only takes place in over a two-week span. There's also no Christmas decorations in the house, right? There's not a Christmas tree. There is a tree. Oh, is there? There is a tree. It's very...

1:43:12Bill Simmons:This is not a holiday movie. It's even less of a holiday movie than Die Hard. Yeah. At one point, the dad says, what a haul. 11 states in three days. Where are you coming from? From Arizona. Isn't that like 38 states in three days? You can actually do the drive and it's like six states, I think. Like, it's the quickest route. With a time machine? No, I mean, like, I don't know how long it takes for him to drive it, but it's just not that many, less states than you'd think. They have date night. Little Richard has died in six inches of bathtub water and their son's a serial killer and they're like, no babysitter.

1:43:47It bothered me that they were eating soup while talking about going out to dinner. Yeah. I was like, what are you having here? Maybe they don't trust the restaurants. Probably not a lot of them. Yeah.

1:43:56Bill Simmons:I had some questions about the safety situation at the skating pond. It's just roped off. Just to rope off,

1:44:04Sean Fennessey:but anybody could have... Yeah. I had that in most 1993 thing about this movie too, where I was just like, yeah, you just go skating in an insanely dangerous place. I mean, that is like... Yeah, it's the local skate pond. Every 80s and early 90s water park or action park kind of place where you're just like, we probably should not be here.

1:44:23Bill Simmons:And the guys somehow don't fall on the ice as they're trying to save Connie.

1:44:27Sean Fennessey:That was weird too.

1:44:28Bill Simmons:I didn't understand any part of the skid scene. Why do they not go to the part

1:44:30Sean Fennessey:where she fell in to fish her out? They only go to the part where the ice is more solid and they have to axe it out. It's just another like, just like Wallace and Wendy Crewson never have a conversation where they're like, hey, have you ever been in Henry's treehouse? Or the shed? The shed is the bigger one. She enters the shed, sees a crossbow, keeps walking finds a rubber duck that's the problem yeah doesn't say a word what is this military grade crossbow doing here she probably thinks it's Wallace's to like ward off wild animals or something we don't get any report on the dead dog like somebody in the neighborhood is like hey somebody shot and killed my dog well he doesn't know it's in the well that's right oh true my dog's missing

1:45:09Bill Simmons:this is the big one this made my wife really upset so Connie almost dies is in the hospital we assume still in the hospital in the end of the movie both parents are home yeah just nobody's at the hospital Connie's just lying in bed like with the fucking remote control she's like seven isn't one of the parents there 24 seven one of my favorite tropes in movies is when like somebody is like it's okay you should go home and get some rest it's like my child or like my wife is like nobody's leaving the hospital nobody's going home to get some rest if Alice almost if that almost happened to Alice would you and your wife would you never leave the hospital

1:45:46Sean Fennessey:be like

1:45:46Bill Simmons:yeah let's go home

1:45:47Sean Fennessey:and let's get a bite to eat He does more reservations. They love to do this at movies, though. Don Sparks. I like when Henry leaves the hospital room and he goes, let her know I was here. Imagine just you in the hospital and you get like a resi notification that's like, oh, you're in. 7 p.m. is opened up. You know what? We're not doctors. What can we do for her? That's why at the beginning of the pod, I was like, this movie is trash. It is really trashy. I love it. But because once you start getting into this stuff, it's so poorly constructed. However, it's very fun and entertaining. Yeah. That's why we love From Hell Month.

1:46:25You got to get the parents out of the house. I get it. Like, you can't have them always be there because Henry needs room to cook.

1:46:31Bill Simmons:I also love when something like that happens to a character and they run to the hospital and the guy says immediately, they said she's going to be fine. Yeah. It's like, eh. She was underwater for about two minutes there. Let's give it a week. I wouldn't necessarily. Let's see if she remembers her name two days from now. She's not going to Caltech, but yeah, she'll be fine.

1:46:51Sean Fennessey:I like that you're really hooked on that she definitely has brain damage. She's fine.

1:47:03Sean Fennessey:Quinn's going to be fine. You don't need oxygen. A couple of bite marks,

1:47:06Bill Simmons:no worries. He'll be back. It's only three minutes of that oxygen. She'll be fine. Also, no witnesses for Henry just whipping her toward the dangerous. Like 100 people. 58 people there. But even if that would what would have happened would it have just been like yeah Henry Hatter and let go of her. You know and he could just feel like it was an accident. Sequel, prequel, Prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable. I think this is a pretty good Prestige TV Apple eight episodes that I hope they don't do.

1:47:34Sean Fennessey:It is but like by the third episode you'd be like somebody's got to be like what's going on with this kid? He keeps murdering people. Right. Yeah. We wouldn't have any of the picky nits because they would just spend eight hours like answering all the questions and stuff like that. Lots of backstories with the marriage. Why haven't Wallace and David Morse talked? But this movie is also the length of one episode of Prestige Television, so. True.

1:47:54Bill Simmons:The Euphoria season finale was 15 minutes longer. Is this movie better than Wayne Jenkins, Fergie the Flores, Zane Lowe, Robert Everence, Dr. Charles Nichols, or someone else? Henry, man, here you are, standing on the ledge. You've drowned Richard. You've killed the neighborhood dog. Nearly did Connie on a frozen pond. The body count grows. But what's next for you, man? After building your nail gun and terrorizing your immediate family, what stirs you?

1:48:25Sean Fennessey:Why is Zane talking to Henry? Is Henry in studio? Yeah. Or is Zane flying to Maine? No, Henry is in the Beach One studio

1:48:34Bill Simmons:and Zane is standing at the console. No, Zane's flying to Maine for this. Yeah, it's true. There's no question. He's on location. You know, the waves lapping against the show line, Henry.

1:48:48Bill Simmons:On location, Zane. Just want to ask her who gets it. Macaulay Culkin. Zawantan Airward, what happened the next day? I wrote down, honey, bad news. I dropped Henry to his death. We lost another one.

1:49:02Sean Fennessey:I wrote, Mark going back to Arizona and leaving that family destroyed in Maine is hilarious. Yeah, and it's just like, see you guys later. Wendy Kirsten, Wallace, and a fucking kid with scrambled eggs for brains. And he's like, I'm out. I got a date in the desert with myself to just talk it all over. No one's watching him and he's like standing on the mountaintop in Arizona.

1:49:27Bill Simmons:Bad news. Elmer Bernstein's like, da-na-na-na. What the fuck is happening? Great movie. Bad news. Connie has to repeat the fourth grade again. Third time. Hopefully it'll be a charm. Yeah, Connie, she lived through the lake, but she had to eat through a straw for five years. Probably an answer for questions. Was Henry's mom a murderer? That's a good one. Could that have been an involuntary manslaughter charge?

1:50:02Sean Fennessey:I think it's become clear that the Rock Harbor Police Department is not elite in investigating these issues. It's a good point. So I feel like she's probably getting away with it. I got two for you. Yeah. Did Mark's dad nail the Tokyo deal or what? Great one. Two weeks. Was that keeping him up at night? Or was he just like, he got it. He's bringing Hyundai's to Arizona or whatever. And then what's Mark's dad's relationship with his brother like after this? So the whole dropping Mark off thing didn't really work out great for you, family. Turned out to be a different kind of drop off. if they were estranged before they're even more estranged now you think it's just like we're just never gonna talk again feels like it feels like it I think like the lingering question is so Henry is just evil like is he evil

1:50:51Bill Simmons:or is he a sociopath well the mom can say like Henry did tell me he murdered Richard yes yes I do think the 86 minute movie is missing a scene in the first 40 minutes when she's in Richard's room or something like you need to see the light clicking that she deep down thinks Henry did this. Where she's just like this has never sat right with me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't think they ever really accomplished that. There's that one moment where she's like Because I think the mom would know. Yeah. Then there's also like I do like the fact that they come back to it a couple of times that Mark thinks she's the reincarnation of his mother.

1:51:27Sean Fennessey:Yes. I love that idea. And that's how he taunts Henry a little bit by saying she's my mom now. She's my mom, yeah. You can make the case that Mark is the best thing that ever happened to that family. Because if Mark doesn't go to Maine, Connie dies. And maybe the mom dies. Well, we don't know whether Mark's introduction into the family accelerates Henry's shit history. He already killed Richard. Yeah, but maybe he was like, now that I got him out of the way, I'm good. You know, like, I'm the only son. We can focus on my hockey career. I got my ya-ya's out. We're good.

1:51:59Bill Simmons:Henry was like Howie Roseman, though. He was preparing for this moment for years. That's right. he'd been building Mr. Highway he'd been building the nail gun he was just ready sure he was ready for this the 2028 draft

1:52:13Sean Fennessey:I see you're very concerned about this AJ Brown yeah I'm definitely concerned what was your other unanswerable question I did the you did both did Mark's deal in Tokyo go through and what's Mark's relationship Mark's dad's relationship like with his brother

1:52:24Bill Simmons:the memorabilia you'd most want or not want from this movie I think you gotta get Mr. Highway sitting with us here so if Mr. Highway was here right now it'd be pretty fucking funny it's gotta be You, Spielberg, Anthony Dibundo, and Mr. Highway. Jaws 2 rewatchables. I like that.

1:52:45Sean Fennessey:He's the A.J. Hawk for the rewatchables. He just sits there. That's great. You should have Mr. Highway cam. It's just on him all the time. What is Mr. Highway? Zaylo, Fergie, or Jake?

1:52:58Bill Simmons:Coach Finstock, Mr. Miyagi. Best worst life lesson. once you realize you can do anything, you're free. But Henry's telling us. True to some extent. I would say just pay for the sitter.

1:53:13Bill Simmons:Yeah. Don't let your son who may have already killed one of your other sons take your daughter ice skating. Maybe it's a good one. Good note. Best double feature choice. I have Mikey. I would watch Mikey first, then good son.

1:53:27Sean Fennessey:So there is a kind of prevailing theory around Home Alone that, you know, Kevin is really the villain of the movie. You know, he is like the demon of the film. And so just pairing those two movies together is pretty funny, I think.

1:53:40Bill Simmons:I'd probably go Bad Seed just because it pulls so much for it. And Culkin wins the movie? There's a decent Elijah Wood case. But I think it's Culkin. I think it's just... For the limited amount of credits that Macaulay Culkin gets, this is such a crazy outlier. And I think he wins it.

1:53:57Sean Fennessey:But because of that, I think the winners kick Culkin. Jesus, Sean. as fucked up as that is I think he like kind of bull charged his way into being the shadow producer of the whole thing forced his son into the project forced his daughter into the project and the movie was a big hit should we add a new category is how would Kit Culkin have reshaped this movie he's like the David O. Selznick of the modern era yeah well

1:54:21Bill Simmons:it's time Craig had never seen this movie or knew what it was both kids were fantastic I had very little fun watching this movie until the final battle. I reveled in Henry's death. You're spending 90 minutes just in Final Destination for Children. And this was a blast. And now I feel like going back, it'd be great. But kind of first watch, you're like, this is very little room to breathe. Every scene is like, will a child die for 90 minutes?

1:54:48Sean Fennessey:Yes. But now, like when you just don't take it as seriously and kind of, you know, live outside the movie. It's the key from Hell Month. Yes. You have to take it light. You have to view it through a different lens. There's just less pulp in this movie than like Single White Female or A Hand That Rocks the Cradle. This one is pretty much like every scene is like, is a kid going to fall down a well?

1:55:08Bill Simmons:It's a harrowing movie. Yeah, it is. It is. It's really violent. I feel like you get it now, though. Oh, for sure. You can watch it a second time and have it last. The unintentional comedy of this movie is off the charts. That's what it is. It's just fun to talk about because it's so ridiculous. It's just remarkable that a movie can have so many obvious picking nits in 1993. And they're just like, oh, who cares? like I feel like you can't do that now if you deliver the script I mean maybe for a movie that's just like goes straight to streaming or something but for a movie that is going in theaters with a big star there's like 15 legitimate ridiculous picking nits in this that any producer would be like well that doesn't make any fucking sense I think that there's just as many picking nits now but like so much of that happens either in like a John Wick style movie or a superhero movie that you're like oh yeah I guess they went back in time to like fix this flux capacitor thing or whatever and it's like this is actually like Noah Copp would have seen this by now

1:55:58Sean Fennessey:part of the reason why I keep pointing back to the incredible level of craft is because there's like you know a hundred people worked on this movie none of them raised any of the notes about picking it or if they did Kit Culkin like overwhelmed them but then there's like nine artisans who were among the greatest craftspeople of their era and they're like I'm gonna spend 38 days of my professional life making this very stupid but ultimately very well made movie and no one was like shouldn't Wallace be chasing Mark it's like they're like whatever. The funny thing is that's like one shot of like Wallace like running in the background.

1:56:31He should have like fallen in the well or something. I don't know. He just doesn't chase him.

1:56:36Bill Simmons:We didn't mention there was a cemetery too near them. Oh yeah. It really was like an all-time kid death trap. The final battle is elite. Like the way that's shot the camera goes up over them as they're hanging. It's pretty nuts. It's a great scene. Ruben cooking. The good son from Hellmuth is just cooking. Is this it? Is this the last one? No we're gonna keep going.

1:56:55Sean Fennessey:We might even go through the first part of July. Wow. So do you not consider 2001 a part of this week?

1:57:02Bill Simmons:I think it spiritually is because it's Computer from Hell. Yeah. And it was the beginning of June, but it's also one of the greatest movies of all time. Yeah. A little insulting to put it in a thing with The Good Son. Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. But at the same time, we could sneak it in. Sean Fantasy, Chris Ryan, thank you. Thank you. Thanks to Craig and Chris as well and Eduardo. Back with From Hell Month next week.

1:57:41Sean Fennessey:We'll be right back.

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