‘The Truman Show’ With Bill Simmons, Glen Powell, and Chris Ryan

21:24link later is the first guy that will call out bullshit on performance he's like he's like something's not reading here but but we do a lot of the the rehearsals to make sure that we're all on the same page like he's a guy that as an actor there's nothing better than when a director you you know something's bullshit and then a director goes hey i just didn't buy it yeah like oh i'm taken care of right interesting he's got your back he's got your back authenticity It matters in Hollywood. But as an actor, like a lot of times, like you work with a filmmaker and you're like, they're great shooters.

21:56They know how to work the camera. Like they know how to shoot, you know, all these different, you know, action or, you know, they're great with, you know, creating tension or thrilling elements. But then you realize you're on your own performance level. Yeah. That's when you're kind of living at the monitor, making sure, you know, I do that anyway at the beginning of a movie to just to see how it's sort of reading with all the elements. but at the, but it's really nice to have some, a filmmaker who is looking out for you in that way. Cause then you can just play, you know, then you're, then you're, then you understand that the edit's going to take care of you.

22:28Right. You know, you don't have to, you don't have to edit yourself.

22:30Bill Simmons:You know, I was, I have all these premier magazines from the 1990s and they wrote about Truman show in 98 and it was a long interview with Peter Weir. And they asked him like, how, how are you so good at these characters? And he said, cause he, he was making movies in Australia in the seventies, right he made like picket and hang it yeah like all those ones um but he said they had no good screenwriters in in australia wow and you kind of if you were a director you also had to like revise all these shitty scripts and like so that really got him when he was younger to learn how to like work with dialogue with actors and he's like in a weird way it like worked out for me because i was always thinking about this when i was a young director and then as it translated when i got older i that's why i can work with actors so well it's like oh that's really interesting How to make it work.

23:16Yeah. Well, you realize that there's a lot, like as an actor, like I always appreciate it, especially in this movie, when certain things are happening for Truman in a weird way. And like, you only get so many buy-ins in a movie. Like there's a lot of buy-ins that you have to, you know, buy into here about like what he's aware of, what he's not aware of, like how many lights that have fallen down from the sky that didn't start unraveling his sense of the world. Like there's a few things like, Like, to build a history of Truman is a very interesting thing. And, like, sort of what you have to brush under the rug and sort of what you have to kind of honor.

23:51And I just thought that you could tell that Peter Weir and Jim Carrey were really on the same page with, like, how to react to certain things. Right? Like, to react kind of, like, comedically to it and then, like, kind of move on with your life. Yeah. You know, not let it marinate too long because then the audience is going to marinate on it too. You know what I mean? because he's the audience surrogate. Even though we have more information than Truman, if he's thinking about it too much, the logic police start kicking in and you do not want that for this movie. Yeah. I mean, he does something, we're just something really cool where he both identifies exactly what somebody's good at.

24:31So like, Carrie has all this like physical, he's so gifted at moving. Like, he's almost like Gene Kelly in this movie. He's like gliding through these scenes. But he also like knows when to like, whether he knows or Carrie knows to when to take it down 5 % so that it doesn't turn into the mask at any moment or it doesn't turn into kind of a more comic, over-the-top performance. And I think it's what you're talking about. It keeps us connected to him because he seems just enough like a real guy to buy him in this completely unreal situation.

25:02Bill Simmons:Well, I like that he waited for Carrie for a year. When they decided he was doing it, he was like, this has to be the guy. And he's like, well, I got to make cable guy and the liar, liar. They're like, all right. So then he, apparently we're spent like a year just thinking about the movies, storyboarding. He hadn't done a movie since Fearless in 93. So he wanted backstories for all the characters. So he went like deep dive. I'm going to create like, who's Marlon? What's his backstory? How did he grow up? And he just went all in. The Dead Poets characters, like all the actors on Dead Poets were like, we had us do our own biographies for every character.

25:36Like we would write our own biographies and rehearse them and talk about stuff that wasn't even going to be in the movie. But he was like, it was just that level of care.

25:44Bill Simmons:We're going to do, Glenn's going to do that for Miami Vice, the remake. Sonny Crockett, autobiography. You got to do a subcategory for Sonny Crockett, best ponytail award. The interesting part about Truman Show in terms of also what you're talking about, backstory. Yeah. Every single character in this movie, I always love the category of the rack focus movie. Yeah. Like where you're like, oh, if I rack focus to Laura Linney's character, how did she get cast in that show? Absolutely. What does that look like? Like even the contract of like her marrying a person and being like, like, what is that?

26:22What is that? Does she get days off? Yeah, right. Does she get days off? Like, what does that look like in perpetuity? Like, you know, that and I just think that there were so many characters like that because this is sort of like an you cannot make this premise bulletproof. so allowing you to like rack focus to different characters you know even Marlon like yeah you know even the dad like the way he comes back I'm sitting there going I have so many questions but everybody's really interesting and when you have a social experiment like this I was like this is a a world in which you can kind of constantly rack focus to cool people

26:53Bill Simmons:so we got Laura Linney Ed Harris Noah Emmerich fresh from the beautiful guys set yeah singing Neil Diamond Peter Krauss Paul Giamatti Philip Baker Hall yeah I like lollipops in my where's the butter in my ass and lollipops in my mouth this is what I like this is right around the same time too yeah right Natasha McElhone is that how you say it yeah McElhon just looking great how do you say it McElhon McElhon looking great Holland Taylor Harry Shearer carries the star obviously and carries in this heater from 94 to 2000 this is a seven year run I think it's probably the best that you could argue for any comedian ever and it's in the running for Best Actor Run ever.

27:37Bill Simmons:Ace Ventura, The Mask, Dumb and Dumber, Batman Forever, Ace 2, Cable Guy. He hosts SNL during Will Ferrell's first season and it's probably one of the four best episodes of the history of the show. Liar Liar. He has the Larry Sanders cameo in the last show where he jumps on the desk and sings to Larry Sanders. Man on the Moon, Truman Show, Me, Myself, and Irene, and Grinch Stole Christmas. How the Grinch Stole Christmas. In seven years. When's the turtle sunshine? That's the same bank. wow sunshine is that like after after yeah this is he he started the 2000s he slowed down a little bit but i mean that's like that's a pace by the way that's crazy that's a crazy pace seven years and all kinds of different performances and and you know even like he became andy kaufman for like four months yeah that documentary is wild yeah yeah like he really like kind of lost his mind a little bit but this is i don't know cr is he the most talented comedian we've ever had for to cross over in movies?

28:33Bill Simmons:Into acting, it's probably between him and Robin Williams, right? Yeah, I agree. I think so. Yeah, I mean, Eddie had a huge box office. I don't know if he's ever had like this diversity of parts, but Robin Williams and Jim Carrey would probably be my number two. I think Eddie Murphy could have gotten there, but he had a similar unbelievable seven-year run, but he never figured out the drama side in the same way. That's like the hardest part of the new drama-wise. He did Dreamgirls, and I mean, Boomerang is a rom-com, but is pretty... Boomerang's amazing. Yeah. Yeah, he dabbled. but he never kind of landed it.

29:03Bill Simmons:But Carrie was just... It's like you look at the IMDb and it's like, what the hell? Like seminal movies. Jesus, how did you do all that? Andrew Nickel wrote this movie in 93. We mentioned that. Can I throw out a quick Nickel fact here? So this quote that he had in a recent enough, like 2023, interview with a Hollywood reporter was actually like the best summation of like why this movie works. They were asking him like, what was your idea for the movie? and he goes, as children, we often think the world revolves around us. I thought it would be interesting if it did. And then he goes, it was that along with my lifelong inescapable paranoia that we are being lied to.

29:43And so you basically take Frank Capra and Alfred Hitchcock and you put it together and that's what this movie is.

29:50Bill Simmons:Well, so, wow, that's great. Yeah, so they did 16 drafts. We were wanting it to be a little funnier. And then reality really started to tick off a little bit too and made it a little bit easier. Is it better if you don't know reality TV is coming or if you knew reality TV happened? Like, as an experience to watch this movie. Like, watching it in hindsight. I can't wait to find that from Craig later. Yeah, watching it, knowing that Survivor and Big Brother and The Challenge and all these fucking crazy shows are coming. I personally love, I mean, look, this movie came out, I was really young when this movie, I was 10 years old when this movie came out.

30:26But I, but like, watching it now as an adult, I actually get so much joy out of like knowing that reality TV is such an interesting social experiment and the like why people watch it, the lengths people are willing to go to watch other people go through things and like how we define reality and like just like just the mercy that we have for people in these scenarios. It's like a very interesting thing that I like watching it now. I think as an adult, I appreciate it because it feels like it's possible. Like I know it says, I think, and I think there's like the, you know, the, the, the real estate question of how you actually build something like this, how you control something like this.

31:08But I think on a level, if it were feasible financially or practically a network would do this in a heartbeat. I mean, and legally. Yeah.

31:19Bill Simmons:If it were feasible. I would argue though, like you're legitimately famous like your life is a little truman show-ish every day because you walk around this world but when people see you and wherever they're like hey yeah which is a little like what this movie's doing but the people can't they they kind of you can just see their body language change when they see it but it's a little similar right yeah i mean i i think that's been an interesting adjustment is you still walk through the the the world the same and then sometimes you have those moments where you kind of look up and you're like, oh, this is, okay, everybody, you know, it is a little bit of a paranoid thriller sometimes.

31:56Yeah, yeah.

31:56Bill Simmons:I know it's hard for CR. It's brutal. We're going to take a break and then I want to talk about the Oscars with this, which I was fascinated by. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Life's full of decisions, big and small. Sometimes you can make one that you really stand behind. Like the rewatchables. We felt like there was an opening in 2017 for our podcast directly devoted to movies because we had done it on the BS podcast in 2015. We did a 20th anniversary podcast about heat and it felt like that was an idea for a bigger podcast. We stuck to our guns. State Farm gets it. Making confident choices can make all the difference.

32:32Bill Simmons:That's why with the State Farm personal price plan, you can choose the right amount of coverage to help create an affordable price for you. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. All right, so how many Oscar nominations do you think this movie got? All right. Ed Harris, did Ed Harris win or get nominated? Nominated.

33:05Nominated. I'm sure Peter Weir had to get nominated. I'm sure Script got nominated. That's three. I'm going to go production design. No, we're done. No? We're done. That's it. Three. Yeah. Yeah.

33:19Bill Simmons:Only three. No carry. No carry. Travis. You know what though? The Oscars, like, there's a different path for a comedian getting to that stage, in my opinion. It's a little bias. I think you earn it in a different way. Like in the NFL, you have to be a one or a two seed to win the MVP or else they don't take you seriously. Dak Prescott. Exactly. He's just a man. Thank God. He's having a hell of a season. It makes me so happy. He's got to go 13 and four. so Craig were you shocked that he didn't win that he didn't get nominated for this yes yeah 100 % he didn't get nominated I actually thought he did because comedians have been nominated in the past like Robert Downey Jr.

33:53got a nom for Tropic Thunder yep I mean Johnny Depp for Pirates is kind of a comedy role got nominated but like those are dramatic actors that are doing a comedic thing and are sort of honored I think it's a different thing for someone who's a true comedian Tobias yeah coming to that stage do you know what I mean Robert Williams eventually got over it

34:11Bill Simmons:because I think Good Morning Vietnam was a big one for him This is a wild Oscar. Well, Benini wins for Life is Beautiful. Hanks, Private Ryan. Ian McKellen, Gods and Monsters. Nick Nolte, Affliction. And then Ed Norton, American History X. That's a good year. The two-handed dunk. That's what it was. But yeah, if you do it over again, I think Carrie's one of the five. Yeah, absolutely. And it's certainly one of his two or three best. Would people say Eternal Sunshine over this? I would have this over Eternal. This is a much more tough role, in my opinion. Yeah. I think Eternal Sunshine is a brilliant premise that's like a really emotionally driven, brilliant premise.

34:51I think this one, as an actor, you go into a role and you know sort of how high that tightrope is off the ground. It's a really high tightrope.

35:00Bill Simmons:So Weir got nominated. Spielberg won for Private Ryan. And then the script, I think it was Shakespeare in Love. I ended up on him. So there you go. $60 million budget made$264 million. We used to go see movies. That one's coming back. That's the perfect return on it. Like, right? It's like 60, we're not over our heads here. 200 and whatever is like a huge hit. We didn't have Hollywood Reporter back then going, it still hasn't made the money back. They spent$271 million. It really is a whole thing where you sit there like, who cares? I'm just like a big believer in cheering for everyone in this business.

35:39I think like that's a thing that it's really hard to take big swings and have big wins in this business. And when a movie wins, one battle after another, I freaking love this movie. And I was like, I'm cheering for that thing to win. I hate when people like,

35:56Bill Simmons:yuck your yum. And you're like, well, but it didn't. They did with Sinners too, which was so dumb. Siskel and Ebert gave this movie two thumbs up on TV. And I don't remember seeing this before. An on-air apology to Jim Carrey because they said, after Ace Ventura, Pet Detective, which they hated. They said he would never have a movie career. You're kidding. And four years later, they loved this movie. People hated Carrie when he first... Like, my dad was a film critic. Like, these guys. And, like, I just remember him, like, sitting through the farting and him just being like, I can't do this. And, like, this guy's such a joke.

36:28And then, like, five years later...

36:29Bill Simmons:Yeah, it's an Ace Ventura cutoff line is probably, like, 45. Somehow I'm way over it and I still think it's hilarious. But a certain type of older person thought it was like the worst thing that ever been inflicted on mankind. The two-year-old haggard film critics were like, I can't. I can't do it. Just shoot me in the head right now. I don't know if it's nostalgia. I mean, it really, that is one of those things that is the dumbest premise and it only works because of full commitment to creating jokes out of nothing. Can I ask you a question? You're either going to laugh at that or you're not.

37:00Bill Simmons:You're not. You can't explain. You're either going to hate that or love it. That's it. Anyway, the rhino in When Nature Calls, I think it's still One of the greatest physical gags of all time. So Ebert, four stars. Absolutely loved it. Talked about how it brought in focus the new values that technology is forcing on humanity. Because we can engineer genetics, because we can telecast real lives. Of course we must, right? But are these good things to do? The irony is the people who will finally answer that question will be the very ones produced by the process. Raj saw the world coming. But Gattaca, which was the other one, Nicol Rove was fascinated in this world too what's going to happen when technology takes over and he was like these two movies are basically related for me the good news is technology is fine now I think it's going great I think we're going 25 yeah nothing on the horizon to worry about it's not like those big scary companies or anything it's going awesome I'm sleeping tight it's time for one of our favorite segments the most rewatchable scene and it's brought to you today by PayPal when you want to make the most of your money head to the PayPal app save the 5 % pay later offer before you check out They give you the flexibility to pay in for no fees, no interest.

38:13All right.

38:14Bill Simmons:We're doing the categories. Thankfully, Glenn has listened to the podcast and he's excited. Most rewatchable scene is the start. I'm just going to throw out the ones I had. And if I missed any, tell me, but the opening, how it opens like the show, Christophe. And you're like, what's going on? I thought Peter Weir directed this movie. But he has that thing where he says, I like how it's a reality show convincing people that it's real. life and that's better than acting. Meanwhile, nothing at all is real. And it's like, okay. Yeah, like the sit-down interview. Yeah, I'm in. Truman's flashback to being in love with the other girl in high school.

38:49Bill Simmons:With Lauren, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that whole sequence, the way she looks at him. I like movies when you get an actor to look at another actor like that with, like, just real love and affection. I think it's underrated. She gets the most bang for her buck for probably having fewest lines in this movie and being like literally over the whole movie which just looks. Yes. Truman starts to figure it out with the radio frequency in the car. Love that. Hospital. He's buying the Fiji ticket with the makeup bib. The lady still forgot to take the bib off. The bus breaks down. So we got that. Truman tries to escape with Meryl.

39:28Bill Simmons:Yep. Finally drives over the water. They catch him. Now you know it's bad. Quickly, the Moco Coco scene when he's like, That's great. Who are you talking to? Who are you talking to? She's just doing that thing. Marlon's heart to heart with Truman. If I'm in on it, if everyone's in on it, that means I have to be on it. You're a scumbag. Yeah, but also Kristoff giving him the lines and him kind of being like, God damn it. Big reveal. So they don't reveal this. It's like the 50-minute mark of the movie. It's incredible. And it's like, and now we wind back, there's a crew watching, and we're like, holy shit, this is what we're doing?

40:05Bill Simmons:It doesn't really set in, right? Yeah. That's how it all works. Whole universe watching. Truman's crying when he sees his dad. That's a good moment, yeah. There's a theory he's crying because he knows that his whole life's been a lie. Oh. He's not crying because he's happy to see his dad again. He's crying because he's like, holy shit. Because right after that moment, he's on to everything. I would love to ask Jim Carrey that question. Maybe he played it both ways. Weir's like, yeah, dude. Truman escapes in the basement. A little Shawshank-ish. Yeah, for sure. Dark. Truman's sailboat adventure with Christoph going heel.

40:43Bill Simmons:The great wave machine. Going Old Testament on him. Yeah, he was. Do it up. Put it up to the danger. I want to point out the score. How good the score is in this movie, especially the scene. And then when he hits the end of the world. It's the best. You're like, wait, what happened? Maybe one of the most iconic endings to a movie ever. Yeah, certainly. And then Truman says goodbye. I don't know. Are there any other ones you'd throw in? no I bringing up score I think the the moment that he's kind of discovering things like where he's turning on that street and then he's like he's stopping the bus and he's starting to kind of put it all together there's the score behind that I realized that I go oh I think in any other director's hands they start playing it like a little bit more paranoid and kind of built in tension yeah he played it triumphantly right it was an interesting thing where it makes you like root for Truman right like oh it's almost like oh he's putting it together and we're like on the page of going oh let's go truman like he's putting together it's like that's philip glass i think like i just thought it was a really brilliant musical cue because it trains the audience to root for him rather than let's do that with the miami vice remake with the three when the three of us yeah hash it out yeah so what do you have for most rewatchable most rewatchable i think that scene i think that scene is the most rewatchable scene is is him putting it all together he's right yeah that's when he discovers the set it goes through the revolving door and then he just is sort of like starting to like, yeah, he's starting to see the ones and zeros out there.

42:06It's the wish fulfillment of the whole movie, in my opinion.

42:08Bill Simmons:Yeah, I've seen this movie multiple times and it still takes me back when he hits, when he hits the end. Yeah. You're like, oh. Today's edition of the most rewatchable scene was brought to you by PayPal. This is big, bigger than the 12 foot snowman on your lawn right now. You can get 5 % cash back when you pay later with PayPal. So whether it's a must have toy or a tiered cheese board, PayPal helps make the most of your money this holiday. Save the offer in the PayPal app. Expires 1231. See paypal.com slash promo term subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com slash paying for. PayPal Inc. NMLS 910457.

42:49Bill Simmons:What's the most 1998 thing about this movie? Did I prepare you for this one? Yep. Most 1998, I think The Travel Agent. That's a great one. Glenn came prepared Glenn's in the high bar for any future celebrity guests I had a very negative experience with a travel agent today and I was just like how is this happening like I've called you once in 10 years you can make this work for me what do you have for 98? reality television being like a novel idea just so the idea that like when you would have seen this movie in 1998 this would have seemed incredibly far-fetched and now it seems like oh yeah isn't there a Truman show on channel 236 that I don't know about.

43:30Bill Simmons:That's a good one. I had young Paul Giamatti. I don't know. It just jumped out to me. He aged the best. No, just that it made, seeing young Paul Giamatti made me feel like I was in the mid-1990s because he was in private parts with Howard Stern and just seeing that version of him. He's the bellhop in my best friend's wedding. Yeah, yeah. He had this whole that guy run in the 90s before he became Paul Giamatti. Yeah. And then he did the wine movie that we've already done. Sideways, of course. That I'm blanking on. But yes, he did Sideways and he became Paul Giamatti. But for 10 years, he was just like this guy with weird facial hair.

44:05Bill Simmons:Anyway, what's age the best? Well, what do you have? Let me see what I've seen. I'll do a couple while you're looking up. I like movies when adults play high school kids in flashbacks and I actually feel like they're in high school. Yep. Because people, they usually mangle that. I actually believed Laura Linney was when they all met together. 30 is a good age to go. you can get away with like just far enough Carrie actually looked young enough so I was buying that he you know what I wrote down for what age is the best? yeah product placement oh yeah I think they sort of they kind of brushed it under the rug of the product placement about how many how the entire world I had product placement in post game shows for TV shows like recap shows basically this movie this is probably for a different category in a lot of ways like predicts Amazon because when you're watching an Amazon show they're also like you can buy whatever anybody's wearing in this.

44:59Right. You know what I mean? Or you can buy the stuff that they're using. So it's kind of... The only thing I missed out on was the gambling content.

45:05Bill Simmons:We didn't have Truman making a same-game parlay. I was waiting for this, yeah. You know what I thought about that? There was this one bar. I never noticed the sort of aprons before, but it's not just a bar. It's a Truman Show bar. Yeah, it's like Bubba Gump's shrimp. That's what I was thinking. I was like, that kind of took me out of it a little bit. I kind of wanted to feel a little more universal. But I thought about in that bar, you have to have some gambling in that bar. Well, he does do two-to-one odds on... Pool table. The bartender does do, like, I'm taking odds on him getting out of this, getting across the ocean here.

45:35Bill Simmons:You should never see the action. I was going to do this later. I'll just do this now since you brought it up. So people are going to the bar. They're just having drinks and food. At the Truman Show bar. Truman Show's on. Are they allowed to talk about anything else? You say that, but if I opened a bar called Miami Vice, we're Miami Vice. Guys, we got everyone's dressed like Miami Vice. And we just had mojitos. Yeah. it's not a terrible idea this is what this is what what was the one that Stallone and Bruce Willis opened the Plain Hollywood Plain Hollywood yeah right you know there's like I always loved the Rainforest Cafe I love a themed restaurant yeah you know what I mean do you think there were some people that went to the Truman Bar and were like I'll go to the Truman Bar I'm not fucking talking about the Truman Show I'm talking about anything else it's got great ribs they got great ribs product placement could have been a little more subtle in 98 can I tell you that's my one knock is I think that they could have been, like there was the twin guys that they pushed him against.

46:30I'm like, he would have figured that out. Laura Linney's like kind of really selling it. Like in the middle of that very intense moment, she has to promote Moco Coco. But you don't have to do that right now. Yeah.

46:41Bill Simmons:I thought the best Seacrest idea for what's the best, no cats. Just dogs. Seahaven. Seahaven. Yeah. There is no cats in the Seacrest. There are no cats. There's a cat in the control room. Very dog friendly though. No cats. Very interesting thing to notice. Interesting. I just, I'm only saying this for Mallory Rubin because she works with us and she's going to be furious that I enjoyed a world with no cats. When I was shooting Expendables 3 in Bulgaria. Say no more. What a start to a sentence. There was, there was, there's a city. So the city of Sofia, Bulgaria is like overrun with dogs. All dogs.

47:16And then there's a city called Plovdiv that is overrun with cats. And I visited them like, And I was like, what a weird thing to have. Do they have any sharks and jets? That's what I was thinking.

47:28Bill Simmons:I was like, there's going to be a war that happens when these two cities meet. We just said Mallory there. Report back. The What's Aged the Best? The poster, which I think is one of the best posters from this decade. It was done by an artist named Rob Silverman. Hundreds of carry things that he just worked on forever. And they paid$75 ,000 for it. 75 ,000? That's it? Wow. That is a great, that is a great. Where'd you say it premiered? The poster or the? No, the actual movie. Oh, I don't know. Was it at a festival or was it like a... I think it was just a regular movie. I think they pushed it because they wanted it to go for Oscars.

48:02Yeah, it premiered in June in LA.

48:03Bill Simmons:In LA. It was supposed to be 97. And then the Titanic literally was this big boat coming for everybody. And they were like, let's go 98. Better chance for the Oscars. What else do you have for what's age the best? Age the best.

48:18I do I do think that the the ending the ending is perfect one of the great endings I just think I think I think the the bow at the end the wish fulfillment of it you get that thing that I love in movies which is like the laugh cry yeah like where you cut to the world like like the guy in the bathtub just like slapping the wall like you kind of have that emotional reaction where you're like simultaneously sad it's ending but also like so happy for a guy it's a very hard I was saying with VJF,

48:46Bill Simmons:it comes at the end of Joel Embiid's career. Happening at the same time. Is that a laugh cry for you? It's a laugh cry. In the tub. Do you have any What's Age the Best? I got a bunch. This movie passes the Raiders of the Lost Ark screenplay test that I'm inventing. Not inventing, but... I like it. It's like, I think every 10 pages or 10 minutes of this movie, something really important happens and it makes you so engaged on a kind of almost subconscious level with it. you anticipate it almost like a thriller, even though it's like this drama comedy. But I was just, I realized this last night. At 10 minutes, he can't get on the boat.

49:23You're like, why not? 20 minutes, we meet Lauren. 30 minutes, he discovers the set. 40 minutes, he sees the fingers crossed wedding picture. Yep. 50 minutes, the cop says Truman's name when he's like, no problem, Truman or whatever. Thanks, Truman. He's like, what the fuck? And then at 60, he gets reunited with his dad and you see Kristoff in the control room. and then it's like the last 30 minutes, which is just crazy. But the way that like they have that, that like rhythm to like discovery in this movie, it's just kind of disorienting enough. And then you're like, oh, okay, cool. And it's paced out well.

49:57I heard that there was a version of the script in which we don't even realize that Truman is in a simulation until the midpoint. See, this is what I wanted to ask about is like whether or not you guys think that opening 30 seconds or two minutes of the movie is what makes it rewatchable because you're like, I kind of know just enough about this being weird. But if you just have it play like a Sixth Sense twist, it's different. You know what I mean? Yeah, people are stupid.

50:26Bill Simmons:I think you have to cater to that a little bit. You kind of have to hold their hand every once in a while with something like this. I think that's why. What else do you have? I had them doing T-Rex, 20th Century Boy, as like a 1950s sock hop. jam because like you know what is music in this world and like how would they have like what does he know about like rock and roll or whatever is time stop in the 50s and so like the fact that they're covering a 1970s glam rock song that's obviously very popular but making it sound like Chuck Berry or something like that is a kind of interesting idea about what they would do for like to keep this guy like engaged with culture inside of this world they just didn't want to pay for the rights that is also possible You know what's funny, though?

51:14I actually flagged that scene as actually, I think, one of the best directed scenes in the whole movie. The dance. The dance. I think that dance is like poetry. It is done with looks. It's fun. It's paranoid. It's got a sense of the world to it. And it does so much heavy lifting in a very short amount of time for the whole movie. I had a...

51:36Bill Simmons:Don't get freaked out. Deaths at sea in movies I think are always riveting. and I almost wanted to do my top tier best ones ever. And I thought that would be super weird. Because Ordinary People has a great one. This one has a really good one. Perfect Storm. Perfect Storm. But the one where you're like, just hold on. And the guy's like, I can't. And they fall back. Visually, Titanic's another one. But visually, it always works. It's always a home run. It's like, oh, he's not going to be able to hold on, is he? That's where the movie takes on a really dark thing. You're like, oh, what they're willing to do to keep this guy here.

52:13So he goes

52:14Bill Simmons:under and what do they have? Like a scuba day? They show a clip of it. They show a clip of like, maybe I'm making this up, but it seemed like the dad was like upset with being taken off the show. Yeah, he's in the montage when Christoph does his interview. And they show the dad being like upset about it. Yeah, his storyline was cut off. And yeah, the divers are in the water getting the dad. quick ones Big Kahuna Burger where best use of food and drink the Moco Coco coffee should come back I had Chef's Pal Dicer Grater and Peeler all in one oh that's a good one yeah I think those are the two I mean the Moco Coco I think is maybe the most iconic by the way not a bad name for a coffee I mean they could they could have honestly paid for this movie with the amount of product placement they do within this movie yeah great shot Gordo most cinematic shot what do you have for Sierra Truman going through the revolving door like with the kind of like realization that something is changing or the last shot of the movie of him walking into the black doorway.

53:12Bill Simmons:I liked when they finally stopped the storm and they go over the boat shot and he's like this and you don't know if he's dead or not. And then, I don't know, I just thought that looked cool with the sun come up. I loved Ed Harris touching his face on the screen. I thought that was a very, like a moment where you started seeing this like really messed up father-son thing happening where it's like he's obsessed with his creation. I was like, that was a moment that's like a very cool visual moment that kind of sums up the whole dynamic. Chess Rockwell, Brock Lander's a word for best character name.

53:47Bill Simmons:Christoph's really good. It's such a douchey. Obviously, this guy would devote his life to tormenting Truman. His name's Christoph. He's no last name. It's the backwards beret, too, with the glasses. He's a full douche on us. Truman Burbank is pretty good, though. Truman Burbank's good. Truman Burbank. I mean, Christoph, by the way, it's the whole thing that they talk about is like Christ. Yeah. Christoph, that he's playing God. And then he's the voice of God. You know, and he's like a one-name guy, you know, Truman, Truman, you know, like, again, there was like a lot of intention and all that, but I think Truman Burbank kind of like, I don't know.

54:21I could have had a second draft. Yeah.

54:24Bill Simmons:Truman Burbank sounds like the left tackle on the Jaguars. Yeah. CR, you have a flex category. This is a category that's not normally in the rundown, but Sierra has carp launch to pick any category. So I am choosing in honor of heat. It's a book about metals award for belatedly best quote or exchange. The one that sticks with me the most, because it gets overridden by Truman redoing a good afternoon, good evening. And if I don't see a good night or whatever, I love when he's like, you never had a camera in my head, the way he says that. And like the idea that there has to be a limit to like surveillance or like the way that how much you can know somebody.

55:02and I thought that was like such an incredible like grace note to go at him. So I always liked that one. My favorite was the two security guys where you see them like, you know, they're about to, you know, the husband and wife are about to get intimate and you basically cut to the security guards and it's like, you know, they never show it. You know, he's like, you just cut to the curtain, they blow a little bit. He's like, they never show it. It's my favorite way to like get plot out, like to literally go like, hey, just like, you're like, what are they showing? What are they not showing? But it is also one of my favorite, like, my favorite, I'm like, I want to live with these guys.

55:39Yeah, absolutely. The parking lot is in the guys. Brilliant line delivery too.

55:42Bill Simmons:I have a bonus category. The Ed Norton Reverse Dunk Award for did this movie need a random sports scene? Like, could there have been a double-A baseball situation going on here? That's a really good question is does Truman get Yankees scores or something or did they create like a fake baseball league for him to follow? Was our whole sports staff just writing fake stories about players that didn't exist? It's actually a really fun—I mean, this is where the first AD comes in. That's a whole props department conversation. They're making a full newspaper every day. So what's in the newspaper? So is there a sports section?

56:15Bill Simmons:Yeah. Well, their newspaper seems to be just to cover up their own plot holes, right? Their newspaper seems to be very reactive to things falling out of the sky. Right. Airplane disasters. And ways they've messed up. But I always thought about that in terms of—obviously, they're trying to mimic the real world. So they're trying to not like create a new reality. So people that are watching the show obviously want to see like their reality reflected in a weird way. But also the more you do that, the more you're sort of looking to the outside world. It creates like a sense of longing that there's something outside of Sea Heaven that I thought was like an interesting.

56:47Bill Simmons:Yeah. Maybe lacrosse could have worked. They got the helmets. You never would know who the players are. That's true. That would be funny if he comes out of the studio and he's like, so like what's going on in the world of lacrosse? The writers are just like, screw you. The Butch's Girlfriend Award for weak link of the film. What'd you have for this, Glenn? I know a lot of people are probably going to... I bet somebody's going to say Marlon. I didn't have Marlon. You don't have Marlon on there? No. I think it could... Tell me why. I actually don't think Marlon's the weak link of the movie. I find that, I find the dad storyline, I think that could have been better.

57:31Okay. In my personal opinion. I think he's sort of like, we could have cast the net a little bit wider.

57:37Bill Simmons:In the research, they said there were extra Marlin scenes that made him like just a little deeper of a character. Like more nefarious? No, like he tries to actually help Truman at one point. Oh, really? And they cut it out. I could totally see that. The reality is it's a very one-dimensional character. Like, I like the idea that they built this entire backstory that he's known him since seven. But the thing that I kept being, like, really interested in is, like, how did that seven-year-old get cast? Yeah. What does his life look like? Right. What is the things that he's been living with? Like, how is this affecting?

58:10Child actor. You know what I mean? That's what I'm saying. I'm like, he's a child actor, too. He's sort of in this different experience. Like, he signed up at seven. Yeah. I was, like, really interested in what that—when your best friend in the whole world is going through this crisis. like what it actually looks like i was like that's cool to prequel oh that's it you know what i'm kind of surprised that well we'll get to that what do you have for weak link uh i don't have a weakest link really i think that i i hear you about the dad you know it's like i i wonder whether or not like if that had been like dennis hopper yeah does that more famous actor like a hair yeah even more emotional i feel like that that storyline because i feel like that storyline inherently is a is it one that opens up a whole can of worms plot wise like how does he sneak back onto the studio what's the conversation of getting him back on like if he's already having second thoughts about this like that's a that's a whole other thing but i go if you had somebody that was like really like someone that already had all this like uh empathetic or you know empathetic nature we'd had it we had a history like a hanks or like a hopper somebody that we've trusted before, I think you engage with that role differently.

59:16Bill Simmons:I had, I don't know what was fun about watching this TV show for 24 hours a day. I think I would have quickly. The curtain's blowing. I just think at some point, I'm like, alright, let me guess. He's gonna wake up, say hi to the neighbors, drive to work. I think I'm good. They present it like there have been moments on the show that are as big as the Princess Diana, Prince Charles wedding. And that people are doing live-aid-sized crowds to watch Truman get married. And I get it because that's the obvious nod that they're making, but it is sort of like, what are you doing on Wednesday at 9.30pm when Truman's cutting his nails?

59:54Are you at the Truman bar? Being like, wait, Truman-ing. Truman at that rate today. What's age the worst? I'll say this. The CGI to pull off the Princess Diana wedding shots to establish the outside world. I personally think that the what's aged the worst is like number one this the cgi of the actual bubble right that i was like okay we could have so early yeah yeah you could almost like redo that for the criterion no 100 i'm like we could just spend a little bit more time on this thing because it's kind of like one of the the wish fulfillment things of the whole movie but i just think the cutbacks to the real world i would have wanted to see a little bit more ripple effects of the real world yeah interacting that was mine limited what's the like i honestly even in even in 1998 like it would have been cool if they got a little bit more into the ethical and legal entanglements that this thing would have inevitably i guess it is cool that it's like this is just such a runaway hit that even these few naysayers who tried to disrupt it they just become part of it almost and like when he's talking to lauren on the on during the interview and he's like no no no i love reconnecting with cast members, even though she's saying that he's a liar and evil.

1:01:08But I do think it would have been cool. What does the Supreme Court think about a child being born to a corporation? Lauren would have been, we should have had her

1:01:19Bill Simmons:in What's Age the Best as somebody who's now devoted their life. Now on a hotline, it would be so much easier to be like, come to my website. Here's my Truman podcast. And you'd have nine things. There is something really fun about also the fact that that was one of the things where I'm like, the fact that you took a kid, raised him in this bubble, lied to him in this whole thing, I'm like, there would be a lot of people trying to break into this place. You know what I mean? That's why I was like, when the dad snuck back in. There would be presidents running on it and I will shut down the Truman Show day one.

1:01:50Bill Simmons:What's the age of the worst? They filmed all the scenes in Truman's house at a residence in Florida that was Matt Gaetz's childhood home. Oh. I did hear this. I did not know that. So, at TV, I just like McConaughey. That was just a tough beat for him, to follow this movie with a similar premise. It's where the agent could have maybe been like, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah. Carrie, Peter Weir thing. Let's stay away. It's always happened over the course of time. It's like you release, like, White House Down, and then you release, like, Olympus is Falling. Two Steve Prefontaine movies. The Prefontaine was the best one ever.

1:02:24Bill Simmons:The two in a row. And then one was awesome. Yeah. Without Limits. My last one, stage the worst. So, Meryl, Laura Linney's character. So, professional escort? Well. Like, an actor who has a fake marriage with somebody that she's clearly having sex with? Yeah. And this is, what's her next job after this? Yeah, because at 34, and presumably she might have had a child with Truman by this point, but if they're like, look, at 35, we can just get you divorced and you can move out of Seahaven or whatever. We're going to drown you in the sea. What are the late 30s looking like for her after that? Yeah, you know, the Truman Show got a little out of hand.

1:03:05Bill Simmons:What does the next job look like after the Truman Show? Having sex on camera is a little weird. I never understood that. She thinks her career is going to look a little different after the Truman Show? Yeah. She's like, I'm going to be in like out of Africa, right? Ruff Lohan and Rubinick Partridge Overacting Award. Did you have one? Phil Baker Hall makes the most out of it. I mean, he's still always amazing. He's chewing up scenery. But he's just like, the network! I'm the president of the network! That's a good one. All right. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. Hottest take award.

1:03:37Bill Simmons:Did you bring a hottest take? I'll tell you my hottest take. I love Jim Carrey in this movie. My hot take is I do think this movie could have potentially been really good with Tom Hanks. Wow. That's good. You got to go for the head there. That's great. So talk us through it. You almost said Tom Cruise or you said that Tom has a cruise? With Cruise, it turns into the, you know, minority report. You know, it's like what you don't want to do is you don't want to feel like a paranoid thriller. The reason Jim Carrey is so good in this movie is it takes it brushes all that away. It's a guy who's grown up in a, you know, a very manicured existence.

1:04:18I will say that for me, Hanks represents the everyman that you sort of root for. Like he sort of feels like a guy, like some of these moments would just be a little more subtle. I don't know if they'd be as much fun to watch, but I would engage with the movie. I think with the Tom Hanks in a different way, because he doesn't feel like an everyman. Like you, again, we talk about only get so many buy-ins of the movie. I feel like the buy-in is that now you have a normal guy who's realizing that he's not normal. Jim Carrey is so over the top as a person obviously his existence has been manicured so you could justify that but I find that Hanks would represent a little bit more of an everyman who's realizing that he represents something to the world and that debate of do I leave this existence or stay here I think it would just be a different movie but I would love to see what that movie looks like

1:05:10Bill Simmons:Cruise definitely they had a running scene over the bridge yes sailboat scene at the end would just be so dope he's definitely hanging from the sailboat no he's hanging from the moon man he's filming his own sailboat scene he's like no no this has to be an actual sailboat accident this is going to be the actual moon I want you to hit me with real waves what do you have for at stake kind of similar to what Glenn said I would have the first director attached to this movie was Brian De Palma oh and I would love to see the sex crazed paranoid. Truman's cutting up magazine pictures of women and trying to recreate Lauren.

1:05:48We get maybe Melanie Griffith playing Meryl. There's a go. Just a lot more, I think, of the sort of debased psychology of this character. They definitely have sex on the beach.

1:05:58Bill Simmons:Yeah. I mean, it could have come out that way and I just think that would have been amazing. Alright. Mine's a little complex. I think 1998 is in the running for the greatest checking all the boxes movie year we've ever had. Okay? so I'm going to give you all these different categories that I created five minutes ago. All these different types of movies that can come out in a year. Yeah. Drama, Saving Private Ryan. Provocative Drama, American History X. Foreign, Life is Beautiful. Beloved Movie Nerd Movie, Out of Sight. Guys Movie, Rounders. Great Comedy, There's Something About Mary. Cult Comedy, Big Lebowski.

1:06:38Bill Simmons:Goofy Comedy, Wedding Singer. Conspiracy, Enemy of the State. Political, primary colors. War, thin red line. Sports movie, he got game. Horror, Halloween H2O. Action, Armageddon. Well done for me and CR action, Ronan. Yeah. Yeah, CR. Sci-fi, Truman Show. Sci-fi, horror, Blade. Rom-com, you've got mail. Black rom-com, Stella got a groove back. Corny drama, Patch Adams. High school, can't hardly wait. Fucked up indie movie, Your Friends and Neighbors. You seen that one? No. It's a fucked up indie movie. TV turn movie X-Files Animated A Bug's Life and Kids Parent Trap that's a damn good movie if you use all that like think about how many categories I just listed and we have an awesome one for each one let's get let's go back it's a shoot 98 it's 98 yeah let's let's make this happen again in 26 it would be amazing if Fantasy had been here and he was like actually it's 1934 and like like Tucky Barnum like you know like but I just I felt like we had so much more variety I know TV's ruined some of this and some of this stuff goes scripted.

1:07:41Bill Simmons:Like if you did Chad Powers in 98, it just would have been a 90-minute sports movie. Well, I think one of the things that we talked about is potentially doing it as a movie, but what you start to realize is the way that I conceptualize it is I was like, do I want to see the Breaking Bad movie before the Breaking Bad show? You want to watch Walter White incrementally make decisions that change. You want to be with him on every single one of those things. It doesn't have as much satisfaction if you... But in 98, you don't have that choice. They're like, you have 100 minutes max, and it's$14 million, and you can have two stars.

1:08:15Bill Simmons:Yeah. Go. It's also like you go back to those years, and you look at the calendar of releases. You were at the movies once a week, if not two or three. You know what I mean? That'll come back. This was an awesome movie year, and it feels like we're climbing back. I also feel like when people always think that TikTok or Instagram siphon eyeballs away from movies, I also feel like it also connects us into those cultural moments that really resonate. Like I feel like those things say like, hey, this thing's awesome. I just think you can't. There's like this era that I feel like people just accepted that people went to the movies.

1:08:50There's like the 98 where you're like, all those movies are killer movies. And now that there was like a thing where like, oh, we just accepted that people go to the movies. And there wasn't as much like artistry or intention behind it. And I think we're coming back to where it's like the only way you open a movie is when it's really damn good. Yeah. Right. The word of mouth is crazy. Plugging Running Man. November 14th. Oh, we're getting it. But that's the only way you actually get people to go to the movies because ahead of time, two, three weeks ahead of time, you know if it's a stinker or not.

1:09:18With Running Man,

1:09:19Bill Simmons:you might just have to be like, gotta see it in the IMAX. That just seems to work now. Like, Rewatchable's episode with Glenn Powell, you gotta see it in the IMAX. It's totally different. It's totally different. The second time I saw One Battle, I just saw it in a relatively half-full regular AMC theater and I was like, this is still awesome. Yeah. You know, it's like you don't always have to, like, go to the greatest possible experience. I will say when we went shooting, like, it always bums me out when people tell me, like, they saw Top Gun on an airplane. I'm like, bro, you just missed out on the whole, like, I'm up there, you know, everybody's puking and passing out in jets.

1:09:53And, like, you know, we shoot it all in IMAX. You invented cameras for things. There was, like, so much. And I'm like, to experience that movie in IMAX was such a blast. Like, even it's like watching. Dudes were saluting the screen in the theaters.

1:10:05Bill Simmons:that were like that was like the first welcome back to movies theater movie in a while let's take one more break and then we gotta zoom through the rest of this this episode is brought to you by Pure Michigan in Grand Rapids every moment feels like a scene worth replaying every riverside stroll every slow afternoon sipping small batch brews every guitar riff drifting out of the city's brand new amphitheater this is a place where everything feels cinematic like you've stepped into a highlight reel that's yours to explore Ranked as the number one city on the rise from LinkedIn, Grand Rapids invites you to find a rhythm all your own.

1:10:42Bill Simmons:Season after season in pure Michigan. Find your season at experiencegr.com. Evening, buyer's remorse. Buy a new car? I'll be moving in. Let's get started. Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana. You what? Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it. So there's no... No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyer's rejoice. I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it. Buyer's rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven-day return policy at Carvana.com. This episode is brought to you by Netflix. The T-Mobile Home Run Derby is right around the corner.

1:11:24Bill Simmons:Might be one of the best showcases of pure power in all sports. Baseball's biggest sluggers, along with some legendary announcers. Pujols, Rizzo. Bond, Sabathia, Al Duncan. Yeah. Hunter Pence, Matt Faskersian, a whole bunch of people. And it's the one night where you don't swing to make contact. You swing to make history. I'm interested to see what Bond says about this, actually. Anyway, it is all live from Citizens Bank Park in Philly. Watch the T-Mobile Home Run Derby live on Netflix, Monday, July 13th at 8 p.m. Eastern, 5 p.m. Pacific. Casting what ifs. Carey's price tag was 20 million a movie at the time 10 less than Glenn but he took 12 that's a little discount and he said it was the fastest he'd ever accepted a role there's some stuff about they talked to Sam Jackson about it my shit detector went off I didn't believe it Gary Oldman was the other one Gary Oldman they did screen tests for yeah but I don't think they actually offered it to him yeah it's a Carey fallback Dennis Hopper was supposed to be Kristoff and was Kristoff and filmed two days of scenes and then they talked to ed harris about this i shot a movie with ed harris and he said he got cast like a couple days before he shot this yes crazy yeah so hopper said he got fired after two days um because we're and scott root and the producer didn't like him hopper leaves they try to get jack nicholson nicholson's buddies with hoppers like i can't do that um so they end up with ed harris and brian de palma turned it down as cr mentioned uh which is a different movie yeah the Terry Gilliam and Barry Sonnenfeld were also circling it.

1:13:04Interesting. Yeah, Terry Gilliam would have made

1:13:05Bill Simmons:a very interesting film out of this. Best That Guy Award, it can't go to Giamatti because he's now Paul Giamatti, but the Asian guy from Karate Kid 2, the bad guy. You were going to get that. Of course I was. Yes. Yeah, the guy Daniel-san fights in the end. The evil guy. What was you talking about? Snyder? Oh, the big guy. Yeah. You're talking about the big guy. No, the guy Daniel-san in Karate Kid 2. Wait, he's in this movie? Yeah, he's in the Japanese family. that's hanging out at the table watching. Yeah? That's him. You're kidding. Yeah. I totally missed that. He regrouped after Dana Sock kicked his ass.

1:13:39And got really into Truman Show. Deion Waiter's award? Are we giving this to Natasha? No, this goes to Giamatti. Giamatti's in like four scenes. He is ridiculous in this movie. Like, this is a nothing burger part. Yeah, it really is. And when he's just like, he doesn't even care if he drowns. I'm like, oh my God, man. It's a very grounded performance for knowing that he probably shot two days on a soundstage. You agree with Giamatti? No. You know what a role is? The woman who's next to Giamatti. Oh, yes. I find what's really, really funny about that performance. Chloe, I think her name is. Chloe.

1:14:16They shoot her. I wonder what happened in the edit because they shoot her like she's a super important character in several of the most pivotal moments. But she never says anything. But she never says anything. You know what I mean? So I was like, something happened, I think. They just cut her part out. Maybe she dated Peter Weir. You know, it's like something like a bad fallout in post or something. I don't know what happened, but there's a… She's like, I'll show her. Do you ever see like in movies sometimes where like all of a sudden you see like somebody like that's framed up important? Like they have a really good, it's like deep focus, like perfect line.

1:14:47And you're like, that character comes in… Did that ever happen to you like on your coming up days? I've been cut out of stuff before. But I always just notice it in movies where I'm like, oh, that thing is framed importantly. And she was framed. Yeah. Yeah.

1:14:59Bill Simmons:In all the climactic moments, she's a, yeah. Recasting couch director of City. As Marlon, can I test drive Sam Jackson for you guys? It's interesting. Test drive away. Why? I don't know. Just volatile, you know? A little more of a, maybe, I just wanted a little extra from Marlon, and I'm not sure what I wanted, but some sort of whose side is he on? I just felt like there was more there. There's more meat on that bone. Yeah. I don't know who the actor, but that was one I thought. Maybe he could have been the cross-the-street neighbors that Truman's always greeting. Good morning, motherfucker!

1:15:37Bill Simmons:The sea haven is so intense. This place is nuts. Craig, you have a flex category. Yeah, so you know how we have the Vincent Chase Award for are we sure this character is actually good at his job? I want to nominate the opposite award, and now we're calling it the Christoph Truman Show Award for the character who is unbelievably good at their job. Yeah. Truman I mean Kristoff threw a perfect game for 35 years fucking Jerry Bruckheimer I mean pretty much just him in this room sniffed out the fact that Truman was was faking sleeping he's feeding lines to everybody live like the guy is cooking at the highest level yeah 24 hours a day 24 hours a day it's just him he's like the best best instincts ever another thing that that that if we're talking about they were talking about the GDP of this economy that booth had to be bigger than that.

1:16:24I know. They really, they got the studio called and cut the budget last minute on a few. So the implication though is that they have put a dome over Burbank, California, basically, right? Yeah. They show the continental United States.

1:16:38Bill Simmons:It's huge. Are we doing this? Yeah. I mean, this was obviously the biggest nitpick. How fucking big was this place? How did they have all the water? How did they have all the electricity? How did nothing ever go wrong? That's one of my... Even like the Staples Center has had four accidents in 20 years. Like the sphere on the steroids. It's basically like Disney World or something. Yeah. Well, also, one of my nitpicks was that I was like, are lights falling from the sky? Are isolated thunderstorms happening? Are the frequency things happening? Why is this happening now? Right. That I could have just used a little external pressure to understand why things are going wrong now.

1:17:18Because you're right. Kristoff has thrown a perfect game.

1:17:20Bill Simmons:I mean, my God. 35 years he's been doing this. 35 years. The radio frequency, if that doesn't happen, maybe they're still making it. You can maybe get away with it. Yeah. Half-East Center Research, just quickly, this was filmed in Seaside, Florida, which is a master-planned community in the Florida panhandle. I have no idea what that means. What is master-planned? Oh, it's like a planned community. Manufactured homes. Yeah, Disney was going to do that stuff where it was like you would have these towns. They do. Disney has one in Palm Springs. Very manicured. Nobody's building their own house. It's like, here's the floor plan.

1:17:53Look cool.

1:17:54Bill Simmons:Disney has one called Cotino in Palm Springs right now. Is this what they were doing in succession with this is Kendall Roy's thing? Yes. The living with the old people could have media and people coming to visit them. Laura Linney studied Sears catalogs from the 50s to develop her poses. I thought that was interesting. Greta Gerwig consulted Weir for Barbie because she wanted to create that world, which made total sense when I saw that. Before the boat stops, we see the number 139 on its sale, which is, I guess, for some Psalm 139. Some stuff in there. And then Kerry improvised a bunch of stuff, including the Trumania bit when he was drawing it on the mirror.

1:18:35Bill Simmons:Last thing, there's this thing called Truman Syndrome. You aware of this? That started in the 2000s with people who have some version of schizophrenia where they believe their lives are reality television shows. And the writer said, Andrew Nichols said, you know you made it when you have a disease named after you. These people constantly think they're being filmed. I have two more. One is another Nichols thing, which is the original script is set in Manhattan. It's an alternative Manhattan. And it was much darker. There was an innocent passenger attack on a subway that was supposed to test Truman's courage, which is a little Truman Show death wish, kind of like that.

1:19:15And Truman had a platonic relationship with a prostitute who he dressed as Sylvia, that would have been the De Palma part. Wow. Yeah.

1:19:24Bill Simmons:That sounds amazing. And then Peter Weir, when this movie was like, I think after the movie came out, he said he had a crazy idea at one time, which was impossible technically. I would have loved to have had a video camera installed in every theater the film was being seen in. At one point, the projectionist would cut the power and it would cut to the viewers in the cinema watching the movie. But I thought it would be best to leave that idea untested. yeah that's one of those great idea can't actually yeah yeah that's a bit much we get podcast pitched to us like that well what if we're hanging out upside like an NBA game and we're in the next to the Jumbotron doing a live broadcast of it sounds good Apex Mountain Jim Carrey I'm gonna say yes yeah this is Apex Mountain for Jim Carrey I think this is right in the middle of this crazy run that he had 1998 1998, he's got, he's had all the success.

1:20:19Bill Simmons:This is his first drama. It's well-received. Liar Liars around there. I think he's like the most powerful actor in Hollywood, other than maybe Hanks and Cruise. But Cruise is doing Eyes Wide Shut at this point. This is also a movie where you're like, well, you can do anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're actually right. Yeah. Because this is like, yeah, you're right. This is the end. This is like not the end of the run, but it is the third act of that crazy seven-year run that you're talking about. Yeah, I think it is. Laura Linney, not yet. But Ed Harris. What is Laura Linney's Apex Mountain, just out of curiosity?

1:20:50Bill Simmons:She's had a bunch of them. Probably somewhere in the early 2000s, though, right? When she does You Can Count On Me, and she just becomes one of the most respected actresses. Is that when Primal Fear? Primal Fear is right around here. Yeah, it's somewhere in here. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Ed Harris, I don't know. Probably early 90s. This is like when he's doing action movies and stuff like that. He's in a couple of Michael Beck. Apollo 13s. Yeah. Yeah. It's right around here. Yeah. Hidden camera movies. Yes. Deaths at sea. I still think ordinary peoples. Well, you made that category up. Yeah. You got to weird it out.

1:21:24Bill Simmons:I thought you'd be with me. You're like, what's going on here? I'm with you. But it's just one of those things where it's like, I have no idea. I don't have an opinion. I just don't have any recall for these things. Peter Weir, Dead Poets? Yes. You think this over Dead Poets? You know the thing about, I think this is a way more complex, I think the vision of this movie is way more complex than Dead Fights. I think even just the way the camera angles of like where you hide things, how you build this thing, it's much more of a world-building thing. I think this is a very tough movie to direct. Moco Coco Coffee, definitely.

1:22:00Bill Simmons:Noah Emmerich, probably still Beautiful Girls. It's a big scene. He learned the guys. He learned the guys that the Macdonald characters get the shit kicked out of him. I don't know. Reality TV warning movies Definitely That's all I had for Apex Mountain Cruiser, Hanks We said Hanks Scorsese or Spielberg Spielberg Spielberg Yeah What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played Clearly Truman's buddy That Marlin He would have crushed Yeah Easily I think he was probably too young in 98 Yeah Right That's a great casting though That's He could have played the Peter Krause role Like the guy who works in the insurance agency with him What if it was Marlin Yeah But he played it exactly like Freddy and tell Mr.

1:22:40Bill Simmons:Ripley. Hey, Truman. Hey, Truman. How's the peeping? How's the peeping? Picking nits. So in, I'm not even talking 98. When Truman's a kid, were the cameras and Wi-Fi really this good? No. Like in like 1981? That's a very good point. We were able to do this? Hardwired. Yeah, everything's hardwired. You're right. I was carrying in high school in the late 80s carrying around like, you know, this giant video camera that would like sink your shoulder after 10 minutes. They shot 28 days later. on like dv cameras that were really small like i don't know when that comes out like 2001 and that you can barely watch that movie now because of like the film quality yeah i don't think truman show realistically would have looked like this obviously yeah we mentioned how did you pay all the actors and extras and was this just their job forever and what was in it for them if you really want to be is would you want to be an actor in this for 10 years i mean it depends where Like, you know what one of my favorite scenes is, is when he gets on the bus and the guy like pretends to like, like to fall out the car and whatever.

1:23:46It reminded me like it felt like we were in the far corners of the universe where like he wasn't expecting this to happen. All the all the background on the bus, like just kind of get up and like move like nobody's like their own life. They're like, oh, this nobody thought the C team was really going to make it on screen. Like I did. I did sort of like that world creation. It felt intentional that nobody felt real. It brings up a really good thing, though, because on the bus, the little girl breaks. Yes. And is looking at him and is like, is that him? Is that him? How would you get kids to behave themselves on the show?

1:24:16You know what I mean? Like, how would you get a bunch of children to not be like, I watch your TV show? Yeah. Exactly.

1:24:22Bill Simmons:You wouldn't. But that's why this movie, we forgot to mention this to what's age the best, Craig. Hour 41. I would argue, and this is one of the rare cases where I could have taken 10 more minutes of this movie. Craig's very passionate in that no movie should be more than 100 minutes unless there's an incredible reason. Two hours occasionally. Two hours maybe. Oh, wow. There was some moments, I just, you know, I love a quick movie, but the woman they introduced to be his new love interest, that's not an export at all. You probably could have taken a scene of that. I could have seen him unraveling a little bit more, trying to figure things out a little bit more.

1:24:52I don't know. I could have taken 10 more minutes. Hour 43 is tight.

1:24:56Bill Simmons:We've done rewatchables where Craig just looks the movie up and it's like 89 minutes and he's like, yes, sir. we know we were doing way better all the 80s movies man what uh any more pick and nits for you you know I mean just the idea that Kristoff like goes full Old Testament on him at the end and no one is like sort of stopping like I thought that was like an opportunity to really world build show the chaos of a man who's like desperate to keep this his creation alive like I thought it felt too calm up in the movie well it's also just like what's the plan if he's like oh okay I'll stay And Christoph now has a TV show that costs like$500 million a year.

1:25:34Can you imagine the amount of money? Also, he's not the only one invested. There's clearly a giant machine invested in him not getting out of this thing. I just thought there was interesting ways to explore that.

1:25:45Bill Simmons:So one pick and date I had, so he was just going to kill Truman? What happens if Truman died in the boat? I think he was trying to... Okay, so I think that's left to the audience to decide. But I was interpreting it as he's trying to traumatize this guy so much in the water. that he turns around and goes back and never tries to leave again and that they can sort of like now we can try to fix this but i don't know if he was ever going to murder him although he does say he was born on camera he'll die on camera kind of right like i mean it's like i created you like you know like that that's what that's what feels very old testament like where it's like i created you i can take you i brought you in i you know everything that you've experienced that's any sort of value I have been a part of.

1:26:27I thought it was a very, I think it's a very, very, that was one of my favorite parts is the conversation that happens to the moon right before he leaves. It's such a... You can speak, Truman. I can hear you. Yeah, it's so good. Speaking of that, my one picking, it's basically the reverse of the overacting award. If I have lived my entire life and found out that it's been a television show, and then I sail a boat across the sea and it runs into like a piece of drywall, I'm freaking out. Like, I'm losing my mind. It's like Jack Waltz with the horse head in his face. I'm like, ah! Ah! There's no like, oh, weird.

1:27:10I'm going to be able to try to find a door. I am losing my mind.

1:27:14Bill Simmons:That's a great point.

1:27:18Bill Simmons:Truman jerking off, having sex, all that stuff. Like, I know they just went to commercial or whatever they did. Well, they never cut to commercial. taking a dump. There's a lot of stuff that if you don't know you're being filmed all the time, maybe it wouldn't have been great for Truman. Yeah. I don't know. Also, never showing a second shift in the moon. That's right. Same cast of six characters in the moon, 24 hours a day for 35 seasons. Yeah. It's a tough gig. Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all bycasts are untouchable. You talked me into a prequel. Nope. Dumb as kids. Prestige TV maybe but I think this is an untouchable I think Prestige TV would have been an interesting approach Can I pitch you on a sequel?

1:28:01Bill Simmons:Yeah So he has a kid with Laura Linney He impregnates her and then while she's pregnant or maybe even before he knows she's pregnant he escapes The new baby is born into the new world New Truman And is now the new young Truman and it's now him trying to infiltrate to get back in to get his son out Solid That's a solid movie, dude I'm into that I'm into that Glenn just signed on Bro Are we doing this? He's dropping from 20 to 12. Sorry, I just got to drop out of Miami Vice room. I'm kidding. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Mad Dog Russo, Doris Burke, Buffalo Bill, Sam Jackson, Nell?

1:28:37Bill Simmons:Nell would have been interesting in this community. Byron Mayo, Tony Romo, Chris Collinsworth. Do you know who Nell is, Glenn? Because I still don't. Do you know who? What? The Jodie Foster character Nell. Do you know what that means? Because I don't. In what movie? Jodie Foster made a movie called Nell where she lived in the woods and talked her own language. And I think she got nominated for an Oscar. Yeah. And it's now a comedy. I've never seen this movie. She just like does that for two hours. It's like her and Liam Neeson. And Liam Neeson's like, I will help you learn English now. And she's like...

1:29:08It's really something. One of my kind of fans, we have a production office on the Universal lot. And one of my fantasies is to create fake movie posters with some of my actor buddies and just see if people lie like they've actually seen some of the movies. You know what I mean? Like, Nell would definitely be like that. You remember, like, she's in the woods, she's doing the thing. He was like,

1:29:29Bill Simmons:are you fucking with me? It's really bad. We'll send you the trailer. We didn't actually do it. Do you want to do Collinsworth? No, were you going to do? I'll do say, this is what would have happened if Wayne Jenkins... Did you ever watch We Own the City with Jon Bernthal? This isn't going to hit as hard then. No, it's going to... You got to do it. He was a crazy Baltimore cop. And Bernthal was playing the Peter Krause part. Goddamn, Truman! I didn't know I was working with the BTK killer! You better start cutting... You better stop cutting pictures of ladies up from those fashion magazines, or they're going to be making a Ryan Murphy limited series about you!

1:30:08Now get him the fuck out of here! So he plays a Baltimore cop in this show. Yes. Where he basically does that speech. Could you add that to my development slate as well? Sure. Thank you. Ryan Murphy definitely I did find that not in one moment in that movie did the cut up magazines look like a human face yes I could have I could have used if he spent all this time every day

1:30:30Bill Simmons:I could have used like it was a really good really disturbing vehicle to show like how fucked in the head he was getting from this whole experience do you think though there is like first take for the Truman show like there's sports talk shows all day where it's like Truman needs to step up he has not gotten promoted at Sea Haven insurance for a long time yeah and we're starting to wonder if he's still got it can i tell you that that is like where i was like like if you that's where like for me like the real world stuff when we cut to the guy in the bathtub or the bar like i was like oh we could have gotten so much more world building in such a smaller sense like the people that like have talk shows that are literally built around this guy analyzing what's happening like what was that guy's name Mike Michelson?

1:31:13Yeah. He was like the post-game host. Harry Sharers guy. Yeah. But like, why can't we have Jim Rome come on for a second there and just be like, you're in the jungle. We're talking Truman today.

1:31:25Bill Simmons:Just one Oscar who gets it. I have Weir. I think, I actually think that was the best case for him. I thought this movie was so well crafted. Over Spielberg for Saving Private Ryan? No, but if only one got it, I think he is the best case. I agree. I thought the way it's filmed, it was really ahead of its time. It feels like a 2015 movie almost. Since 1998. Andrew Nichol, only just because I just think this is one of the great original screenplays of that decade. And it just seems like so cool that he went from this is like a dark thriller set in New York City to I can just rewrite this over and over and over again until we get it to where it is.

1:32:03Now, I know there's a lot of improv and probably other stuff going on, but still. Did Andrew Nichol write this draft? Did he have a draft or did he draft a New York draft? He said he wrote like 12 versions of this. Yeah.

1:32:12Bill Simmons:Unanswerable questions. Was Christoph evil, I think, is a good one. Yeah. Was he actually like an evil guy? Leaning toward yes, but he might have just been deranged. I don't know the answer. Because he becomes kind of evil as this movie goes along. You also, I always love how people justify their ways in the world. Like with all great villains, they don't look at themselves. You can pop into those moments and go like, oh, wow, this guy's what he did. But like, he's sort of like looking at himself as a father figure. He's really like the way he's justifying his place. He's protecting him from the evil outside.

1:32:50Like he's like almost nurturing this, this guy that he truly loves. Like that's, that's his mentality. That's why it's like, he doesn't, I mean, I think you could definitely get into the politics of kidnapping a child and raising him in a bubble. But, but I think, I think, I think for him, I think that's one of the great performances. I love how committed Ed Harris is to the. You know what I didn't notice until this most recent watch is Harry Shearer, when he's interviewing Christoph, goes, and I know you really guard your privacy. Can you imagine the irony of this guy being a guarded person? But he's like, this guy has to be on camera all the time.

1:33:23It makes it that much more profound what he's doing.

1:33:27Bill Simmons:I think for an answer, you get to move in the Zawadneo word for what happened the next day. What were Truman's next 24 hours like? Great to be. California Pizza Kitchen. He's like, oh my god. In Burbank. What's going on out here? Yeah, so he's in... We figure he's in... The TMZ bus? Yeah, exactly. We think he's in California? He's in Burbank. He's in Burbank. Yeah. Right? Foster's Freeze immediately. So he's just kind of wandering down Hollywood Boulevard just doing this. Just like a lot of guys on Hollywood Boulevard. Yeah. I think they say it's Burbank. I think it's more Van Nuys. I think it probably bleeds a little bit into Burbank just to get the...

1:33:59He walks down Hollywood Boulevard. He's like, I'll go back in the dump. Yeah. Yeah.

1:34:06Bill Simmons:So I don't know where he goes. What did you do today? I met Spider-Man. This is a lot. Spider-Man and Batman. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie? I'm going Christophe Bure. Really good. Really good. I guess I would take the dicer peeler grater that Lindy had. That's a good one. I was thinking his ring, but actually what I would want is the original poster that the guy made. Oh, yeah. First edition. Oh, interesting. Here's the prototype of the poster we're going to use. Oh, that's cool. Coach Finstock Award, Best Life Lesson. What else is on? Yeah. It was like, yeah, we spent 35 years with this guy.

1:34:48Hey, change channel. Cool. Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get me. Best double feature choice, The Matrix. Oh, that's interesting. I would go Gattaca, Under Scene, other Andrew Nichol. He directed that one. Pretty cool. I'd go The Game. The Game. Yes, good call.

1:35:09Bill Simmons:Glenn's like, I'll go The Running Man. Premiering on November 14th. Honestly, guys, great double feature. I'm just saying. Who won the movie? I think Carrie. Is there a Peter Weir case? What was it? I think it is Carrie, but I think the Peter Weir, like, he needed this one. Master and Commander is like the next one after this, I believe. Yeah, so I don't know if he, I don't think that means he won it necessarily. I think Carrie, I think Carrie went. It's Carrie. Craig, what do you got? Craig, had you seen this movie? Yeah, many times. Okay. This is one of those movies that, I don't know when is the first time I watched it, but just kind of always felt like, like one of the first few movies my dad showed me when I was like growing up.

1:35:49It's like, oh, you got to see The Sandlot. You got to see Die Hard. You got to see Truman Show. It's just like always been in the lexicon, I feel like, the Truman Show. So yeah, I haven't seen it in a while though. It's just one of the all-time concepts. Like the first five minutes of the film, there's no way you're turning it off. It's incredibly rewatchable. and it only, it's only getting aging better and better. It's so prophetic. People do, like there are YouTubers now or influencers like Emma Chamberlain, who's at Spotify, or like Kai Sennett. Those people will literally stream their lives 24-7.

1:36:19Like Emma Chamberlain and Kai Sennett will film themselves sleeping every night. Jeez. So, I mean, we're kind of living in that reality where people are willing to do this, which is pretty crazy. The closest thing I ever get to that is like there's a guy who has a YouTube channel, but he edits these, but it's like, he goes camping with his dog and he like cooks like these really gourmet meals I believe he recently he shut down he stopped doing it did he yes but I know exactly what you're talking about but it was like oh like this is really relaxing to watch this guy like set up his campsite make a like a t-bone with like a bunch of sides his dog's kind of hanging out and I was like this is beautiful but like it's like they're like 30 minutes they're not like 24 hours or something like that I think there's always like from the beginning of like entertainment I think like people crave truth and crave reality the irony is like on this one it's like all manicured it's all fake so like there's a whole commentary on like what we're being fed in terms of reality shows and what actually is real but i do think the kai senate thing the reason that people are so engaged is like that thing does not cut yeah yeah and he's doing nothing yeah and people are engaging just on the idea that they're experiencing something real even if it's exactly there's a bit of a there's a kind of a pushback a boomerang effect now where we've kind of been in the in the 21st century media world for so long and everything has been manicured we're so aware of that that now things are turning the other way and we actually want that kind of raw material and the influencers are they know that and they're like yeah i'll film myself 24 7 like you can watch

1:37:43Bill Simmons:me get up in the morning and it's interesting i wonder if part of it is like that it's just a more lonely society post-covid people are let people maybe aren't around each other as a relationship yeah you have like this this oh kai's my guy and that's like your friend that you've never met it's also interesting in Truman Show, like I was thinking about, again, it's the Rack Focus movie of looking at the old women with the Truman pillow, the guy in the bathtub, the other bar. It's like, there's a sense of power that people get being like a little omniscient. Like, you know, a little like having like a place of like going, well, at least I'm more aware than this person.

1:38:19Like, or at least my life's not this. Like, or whatever it is. Like, the fact that they're not partaking in life, they're glued to those couches and they're watching a guy I live a fake reality, but it represents real reality. Like this is the reality of the living. I think it's a very fascinating, you know, study of how we engage with the world. Yeah. It's the people that are technically providing us content on TikTok. You meet them in real life. They are glued to their phones. They are not participating in shit. And it's like, it's just a fascinating, you know.

1:38:48Bill Simmons:Yeah. I can't say anything because I watched the NFL for 14 straight hours on Sunday. Literally from 6.30 to 8.30. Yeah. 14 straight hours and at one point I went on the treadmill for 45 minutes just to feel like I was doing something flowing in the lower half of your body so you know we all have our things but yeah it is it is we talked about the reality TV angle but the social media angle of this movie I think is definitely the 2020s did you guys so is Running Man is your without giving too much away is your Running Man set a little in the future or is it kind of like how did you where did you guys well the original Stephen King book takes place in 2025 which is which is wild.

1:39:26Is that true? Yeah. I didn't know that. The original Running Man book, Richard Bachman, aka Stephen King, wrote it, I believe in 82. Yeah. And it's set in 2025 where all of this stuff, like in terms of like, you know, deep fakes and sort of where we are with reality TV and how sort of the blood lust of the world, all that stuff is like, it's all already baked into the book, which is crazy. We, the world looks, we don't really specify a date, but it's, It's a little five minutes in the future. Okay. Okay. And then with Edgar, like, were you somebody who was like, I'm watching Hot Fuzz like once a year pretty much?

1:40:05Like, had you been a fan of his forever? I've been a fan of Edgar my whole life. I mean, Edgar Wright movies for me are some of the most well-crafted movies of any filmmaker out there. And he's played in all these different genres. And I think the thing that when you look at like Hot Fuzz, when you look at, you know, Baby Driver, you're like, this is an action director. A guy that can like literally, even though it's a comedy, Like, Hot Fuzz, you watch it, and you're, like, you're kind of parroting, you know, Michael Bay shots. You know, these sort of crazy parallax shots. These big, big slow-mo shootout things.

1:40:32But they're undeniably amazing action sequences. And so getting to watch Edgar on this movie, like, truly unleash and, like, take that weapon and just, like, send it. It was just awesome. It was just awesome.

1:40:46Bill Simmons:You're high on this movie. I can tell. We can usually sift through those. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm telling you, this movie rocks. That's awesome. Like, when I tell you, it rocks. I got to watch it with all the theater owners the other night, and it played like a rock concert. They were losing their minds. Again, not to say we should watch this podcast in IMAX, but you should also watch Running In IMAX, because it's one of those that was like, it plays in a big screen format. That's really cool. Would Cruz be proud? Cruz is going to see it. I get to show it to him in a little bit. Yeah, he's going to love it.

1:41:18Honestly.

1:41:18Bill Simmons:Do you lean on Cruz? Do you ask him advice and stuff? He's like one of those guys. You know what's really great about Cruz? Think about his education, the 90s that you're talking about. He's played in all these different genres. His skill set and his education is so singular. There's very few people right now in this phase of my career I can ask a question to that I'm like, hey, you're getting blown off a bridge and they're about to light this thing up. What are you thinking about? You know what I mean? I'm thinking it sounds great. You know what I mean? When you start talking about certain stunts, where I'm just like, hey, whether it's running on camera or how to sell an action movie properly to an audience, what you're thinking about in the general architecture, what your role within it is, there's very few people you can ask over the course of time that have done it at a certain level.

1:42:10So yeah, I don't necessarily do it on every movie, but on this one, it was a huge resource. And then are you ever like, what the hell is up with the ending of Eyes Wide Shut?

1:42:20Bill Simmons:Can we walk through that one more time? Glenn Powell, true pleasure. Thanks for doing this. Thanks for doing this. See our pleasure as always. Thank you to Craig Horlbeck. Thanks to Gahal and Ronick as well. And we'll see you next week. Good luck with the running man. Thank you. November 14th. Yes, sir.

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